quick hopefully easy question

[edwardcullen13]

can you put a bands lyrics into your book without their consent and then publiush it? or do u need to cite it? or what?

[maestrowork]

Lyrics are copyrighted material. You need permission.

[edwardcullen13]

do u know how to get it? lol
sorry i am new. lol (well at this i am lol)

[Maryn]

No problem being new. We were all new once, even maestro--his was just when we were all much younger. (Check his post count.)

You can use titles of songs in your writing, but not lyrics (because titles aren’t copyrightable and lyrics are automatically copyrighted on being saved to a fixed medium, same as your writing).

To find out who holds the copyright on lyrics to a particular song, check with ASCAP (http://ascap.com), the American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers. I hear they're very slow to reply, and the answer is usually either a flat-out no or a high price for use. Which is a total drag, but still, no harm in asking.

You might want to work on the assumption that you won't be able to use the lyrics. You could paraphrase them, or write your own lyrics to suit your fiction's needs.

Maryn, glad to meet you

[jdparadise]

Contact their management companies.

First, though, write the piece, and then try removing the lyrics and see if you really need them. 99 times out of 100, you won't:

On the radio, Steppenwolf was singing about highways and adventure. Mary bobbed her head mockingly as I stewed.

[Gillhoughly]

Yes, the text-speak was kind of a tip off on the newbie status. It's okay to use proper English and spelling here, we appreciate the effort!

Unless the song is in the public domain (look that term up on Wiki) I would not recommend it.

Using lyrics is a fast way to tell an editor just how new you are. You find lyrics in tons of fan fiction. Most editors are going to be older than your parents, and the lyrics won't mean anything to them, however much you love the band.

To get permission to use lyrics you have to write to the copyright holder--usually the song writer or band. Then THEY have to ask their recording company permission to give YOU permission, and guess what? The company is going to want money from you.

Lots of money.

If you use lyrics without permission, they will sue you in an attempt to get lots of money.

Either way, you're screwed.

Use your own words, not someone else's, to express your ideas. It's safer and cheaper!

Here's a good link about copyright. When you start moving in the big leagues of publishing you know just how seriously they take this stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism

All writers need to know this. It's like all musicians have to practice scales before they can go on to composing.

And this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elements_of_style

So you can write really, really well!

I didn't have any of this when I started, else by now I'd have twice as many books out!

Good luck!

[a_sharp]

Maryn's right, but you also could look up the band's website and if they have one, email the question.

[Round John Virgin]

One of the stickiest wickets is when several people own the song, which is common in the case of coauthorship but can also occur through inheritance. Or worse, they might own just the North American rights while someone else has the international rights. (Case in point: The Witch Doctor, by the late Ross Bagdasarian--as in Alvin and the Chipmunks.) Then it is a huge hassle.

[miles]

One of the stickiest wickets is when several people own the song, which is common in the case of coauthorship but can also occur through inheritance. Or worse, they might own just the North American rights while someone else has the international rights. (Case in point: The Witch Doctor, by the late Ross Bagdasarian--as in Alvin and the Chipmunks.) Then it is a huge hassle.

Damn! And I was just about to ask permission to use the following lines in my novel:

Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang...
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang

[edwardcullen13]

Oh, Okay. I think i will just decide to take them out and mention the title, but can i mention the band name and have the members speak dialogue?

[HeronW]

If the band members are real people, still alive, and you're doing non-fiction, you need to be careful what words you put in their mouth. Defamation of character, misrepresentation of a person, etc., often results in repercussions from lawyers representing the band/label/members.

If possible can you be vague, ex: They finished 'Sympathy for the Devil' with the audience screaming at their feet. The bass player reached down and pulled a happily shrieking girl onstage for an impromptu jam. The lead singer slunk over to croon in her ears at 120 decibles.

[edwardcullen13]

its a fiction novel and i just had them ask what was going on, nothing personal. is that okay?

[job]

Oh, Okay. I think i will just decide to take them out and mention the title, but can i mention the band name and have the members speak dialogue?

You can certainly mention the band name.

When you put dialog into the mouths of living people you do wander into defamation of character country.

The wiki is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation



So if you have your band member say, "I am a squirrel-swiving pervert and I cheat on my taxes," you might -- though this is unlikely -- end up in court.

But you can get away with a lot, in fiction, and using famous people. Certainly popping up and asking for directions seems harmless enough.


While I'm in a text window anyway --
may I just (cough) point out that all novels are fiction. So you can just say you're writing a novel. You don't have to specifiy that it is a fiction novel. Save a word and use it later in some more exciting context.

[edwardcullen13]

You can certainly mention the band name.

When you put dialog into the mouths of living people you do wander into defamation of character country.

The wiki is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation



So if you have your band member say, "I am a squirrel-swiving pervert and I cheat on my taxes," you might -- though this is unlikely -- end up in court.

But you can get away with a lot, in fiction, and using famous people.

May I just (cough) point out that all novels are fiction. So you can just say you're writing a novel. You don't have to specifiy that it is a fiction novel. Save a word and use it later in some more exciting context.

i dont think i will have a problem then, i just want the lead singer to ask what's going on. thanks. =)

[job]

>>>Ooo eee, ooo ah ah <<<<

Evocative, isn't it?

I would be interested to see an attack mounted on the copyright of this, based on the premise that nonsense words cannot be copyrighted.

Except possibly as visual art ...

[sassandgroove]

You might also look here. It is from the sticky in novels, katie mac's thread, Writing Novels FAQ, Archives and Helpful Links.

In the Index, there is a link for legal questions, and under that is a section about song lyrics. THere are several threads there with good discussions on this topic.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=657721&postcount=9

I would say also to especially read this post.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=306687&postcount=7

[Round John Virgin]

Damn! And I was just about to ask permission to use the following lines in my novel:

Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang...
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang

Good thing you're not getting paid for that post, Miles!

[Charlie Horse]

Why don't you just invent a band that is eerily similar to the one you want to use and then create lyrics for one of their songs that gets the same message across? If you do it well you:

A) Don't have copyright problems,

and

B) Don't have a book that will be outdated when the band you're referencing outlive their usefullness to society.

[dempsey]

its a fiction novel

All novels are fiction by definition. Just say "novel."

Also, "it's" not "its."

Welcome to AW. Good luck :)

[Gillhoughly]

Why don't you just invent a band <snip> then create lyrics for one of their songs that gets the same message across?

Great idea!

Having heard some of the lyrics out there, I'm thinking this writer can do far, far BETTER than the song-slingers!

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[David I]

can you put a bands lyrics into your book without their consent and then publiush it? or do u need to cite it? or what?

Of course you can!

But, as my third-grade teacher would have pointed out, you are confusing can and may. You can do that, but you may not. Otherwise they can and will sue you.