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DoctorShade
05-19-2008, 11:16 AM
Hey everyone, I am on summer vacation from college now and I have vowed to write as much of my novel as I can, but when I sit down at the desk I find myself avoiding my novel, I think it's because I'm afraid, I have tried to write other novels before but they have all failed, this time I think I have a really good idea but I'm afraid I'll ruin it along the way. One of the reasons why I'm afraid to continue is because I don't have a clear direction, my whole novel isn't planned out, out of all the novel ideas I've ever tried to write I never knew what the ending should be before I started. Am I just an amateur? a bad writer?

Do you need to know the ending of your novel before you write it, I need to know if I'm doomed to failure. I've been thinking about this novel for months and I can't come up with a clear direction, I don't know if I should write everything I planned and then let the rest flow or maybe I should write as much as I planned and then stop until I can figure out the rest or should I never have started without the ending and much of the middle clearly planned. I'm really in love with this idea but I fear that I don't have what it takes to write it.

Maybe I need a therapist not fellow writers, lol

blacbird
05-19-2008, 11:21 AM
Do you need to know the ending of your novel before you write it, I need to know if I'm doomed to failure. I've been thinking about this novel for months and I can't come up with a clear direction, I don't know if I should write everything I planned and then let the rest flow or maybe I should write as much as I planned and then stop until I can figure out the rest or should I never have started without the ending and much of the middle clearly planned.

There absolutely are no definitive answers to these questions. The only thing you need to do, for sure, the only thing you can do, is WRITE. Think scenes, character interaction, get some words out. Often planning is integral with writing; for most novel writers, plans change as they go, and that's not a bad thing. The ending will come along when the novel stops. Which sounds really stupid, but I'll defend it anyway. Won't be the first time I've defended something stupid.

caw

C.M. Daniels
05-19-2008, 11:31 AM
Some people outline each and ever scene before they start on a book. Others just sit down and write. There's no rule that says you have to start knowing where it ends.

I don't always know where the novel I'm writing is going to end. Sometimes, when I think I've got it figured out, the characters and the story change it for me.

There comes a time when you just have to write and see where it takes you.

kzmiller
05-19-2008, 11:38 AM
Write! Don't let the fear win. Remember, when you write this novel it doesn't have to be perfect the first run through. Write until you get stuck, and then get unstuck and write some more. Repeat until you finish. Getting stuck isn't a big deal. It happens to everyone. When you accept that, maybe writing will seem less scary.

It's possible that you have trouble writing endings because the middle gets out of hand. That happens to a lot of people. There are lots of techniques for getting through the mucky middle. AW is here for you *when you get there.* Until then, write and write some more.

Some people find it helpful to work on short stories between novels (or in parallel with writing novels) so that they can, among other things, practice getting to the end. For you, writing some short stories might help get you past the fear. A short story is much less commitment, usually less complicated than a novel, and if you need to abandon a short story it doesn't feel like you've abandoned a child on a street corner.

I hope this helps. Good luck!

Shweta
05-19-2008, 11:50 AM
My approach is telling myself "It's all just words". If I ruin it, I can fix it. If I ruin it past fixing, I can start again. And whatever I do, I've learned, so it's not wasted.

I have to tell myself this fairly often :)

Garpy
05-19-2008, 12:32 PM
My advice: conjure up a cool opening scene, and a great climactic scene...and that's really enough to get you started. Your characters have beginning point to move off from, and with the ending in mind, they have a direction to head towards. How their paths meander on the way, well....let them decide.

Paichka
05-19-2008, 12:48 PM
And whatever I do, I've learned, so it's not wasted.

Quoted For Truth.

HeronW
05-19-2008, 01:14 PM
Every word is a step. You walk a mile, 5280', 2112 steps 30" apart.
Teams play a football game that lasts 3 hours, but up to that time they have practiced for hours every day 6 days a week.
You can run but it took months to learn to crawl, then to walk, and then to decide where to run.
Why should writing be any different? Our works don't come full blown like Athena dressed and ready to kick ass. Words grow, they follow the sun and close up at night, they have a pace and depending on what you feed them--they will keep growing, in unexpected directions sometimes but that's okay too.
Don't be afraid. As Natalie Goldberg says, give yourself permission to write the worst crap in the world.
Even the words you don't use will lead to the ones you do.

Michael Davis
05-19-2008, 02:44 PM
As Blacbird stated there are no absolutes. I have generally thought out the flow and structure of my books before I seat down. Interesting point is that in all my novels, I originally know in my mind where its going to go, but it always changes by the time I write the last word. Knowing where you want it to go at the end can help you to include little ticklers, heads up, suspense items to the reader, but it can change. Don't sweat the mechanism so much or you'll miss the joy of the process. Just write. If you hit a block, do something else. Your mind will keep working on its own and new ideas will flow.

Being analytically based, I over analyzed my first stories, now I just go for it. If you have a creative mind, its hard to stop it from writing. When you feel the muse, write. If you don't, do the other things in your life. Otherwise, writing will become an anvil around your neck instead of a thrill to you soul.

Angelle
05-19-2008, 02:52 PM
If you think you're afraid because you don't know what's going to happen in your story, outline it first, then write. I almost always outline before I write, and I don't think it hurt me particularly. Everyone writes differently, so you should experiment until you find the method that works for you. :)

qwerty
05-19-2008, 03:27 PM
DoctorShade, I'd say you came to the right place to ask your question. Some gems of advice up there. I mean, who needs a therapist with fellow writers around? We are therapists.

Me, I'm a disorganised go-with-the-flow writer. I once began a book with a sentence and waited to see where it took me. About 30K words later, I thought I knew the plot, then a character entered I hadn't planned on and diverted the course.

Whatever you write during your vacation, it will not be a waste of time. Go for it, man.

Staroffurby
05-19-2008, 03:45 PM
Could it be fear of the word novel and the image that brings? When i think of a completed book, with coloured cover, the blurb at the back and even promoting the thing. It all seems a bit frightening. Just thinking of it as a story that needs to be told, a list of words that link wonderfully together. Then it appears less threatening and slightly more approachable. The fact is most of us would love to write that book that sells all over the world, but if you sit down and think of the burden that would bring, would we ever start it?

So my simple advise is, fill that harsh white monitor screen with words. What happens after that is fate and just enjoy the ride, if you can :)

kct webber
05-19-2008, 03:59 PM
All I can tell you is what I do. I never know the ending of anything--short story or novel--when I start writing it. But I know that, so I'm not worried when I start. I just have a cool idea and start writing. Some of turns out to be poo. Just fix it. No big. There's no reason to be scared. Even if you don't know exactly where you'll land, but you know that the parachute will open, nothing is going to hurt you. Just jump. You'll land somewhere and it will probably be a pretty cool place. :)

Exir
05-19-2008, 04:33 PM
My art teacher has a wonderful saying: "The wonderful thing about painting is, if you make a mistake, you can always cover it by painting on top of it."

It is the same thing with writing. You might write a story that rambles, and sucks. So what? You can fix it. You can paint on top of it.

tehuti88
05-19-2008, 06:15 PM
I have no clue how the climax of my current story is going to go. I know what has to ultimately happen, but as for the actual scene? No idea. And I've been writing this story for about two or three years so far (it's...REALLY long...I won't get into the details).

Lots of times I just sit and agonize over how it's going to go, and truthfully, I had no idea, when starting, that the story would go as long as it has. There are many scenes I have yet to get to and I haven't gotten to them yet! When will this thing be over?? I have to make sure everything gets included but as for the details of how that will happen, it's all a fog.

All I can do is just keep plugging along and hope that it falls into place. In my case, I know that it will, I just don't know how, but that's all right. In your case, it might be different. You said you've failed to finish novels before...are you sure? Maybe they're just resting? I'll let you know that I've written a few novels, so I "succeeded" in finishing them...but looking back on them now they're so horrific I'll need to do them again. Finishing a story is no guarantee that it will be a "success," except in terms of actually finishing it, that is. So perhaps the opposite is true as well...and an unfinished story isn't necessarily a failure. I have ALL SORTS of unfinished stories that I haven't worked on in years but haven't truly given up on. Surely you learned things from what you didn't finish. And you could always return to those stories someday and rework them.

Perhaps you can take what you learned from not finishing the earlier stories and tell yourself that with this one, you're not going to do the same thing, you're going to finish it no matter how it turns out in your opinion.

It might not turn out as you hoped, but maybe that will be a good thing?

steveg144
05-19-2008, 06:30 PM
The best way to dispel The Fear is to outline the piece, in as much detail as you can manage. If you just aren't able to outline the piece, then maybe there's not enough "there" for it to ever really evolve into a finished work. You must have some idea of how the story evolves, the narrative arc, etc; just get it down on paper in the form of an outline, and use the outline as your "security blanket" when The Fear comes calling.

Use Her Name
05-19-2008, 07:31 PM
Sports Metaphor alert!

I think that "finishing" comes with artistic maturity. It is like becoming an expert in some physical thing, a sport, or dance or acrobatics. You fall on your head 9 times out of 10 at the beginning, but after long months of practice, you get the feel for it.

Writing "Stamina" comes, like running stamina, from exercising--practice.

I think a lot of people are plain wrong when they say anyone can write a novel. Anyone can "write creatively," and most people can be taught to write legibly, but I think it takes a kind of literary athlete to really pursue novels. I think you have to have it all there; creativity, competition, stamina, technique, ideas, will, drive and a lot of other things. Sitting down and writing 300 pages is not for the unprepared.

Why not try tweaking your idea a bit. Instead of a novel, try to write a fine novella or short novel of 150-200 pages. That will get the "length" problem off your back. Try to keep your character count down, and as many people suggested, write an outline. I find that "Pre-writing" is helpful. That is simply writing for about 15 minutes on any subject. Just pull out a photo, possibly a place from your novel, or an object or anything and write a description of it, or your thoughts, or write in a journal.

Charlie Horse
05-19-2008, 07:53 PM
Just write. Make it up as you go along. One scene flows from another. As the saying goes, "cross that bridge when you get to it".

James81
05-19-2008, 07:53 PM
Well, I'll tell you this much...

I just finished a 60K word novel in 41 days and all I had was an idea when I started. The story came to me as I was writing it.

I'm about 10K words into my second novel and again, all I had was an idea. Right now I'm thinking "Oh, I'm going to go home this evening and write a couple thousand words" but I have no idea where the story is going to go when I do. I wrote 3K words last night and I felt really blocked when I started about where the hell I was going to take it. After I was finished, I have several ideas of where it could go from here now.

Not everybody is like that, but I think most writers, when it comes down to it, CAN be like that if they just commit to a goal.

I challenge you to take the NaNoWriMo challenge and do 50K words in one month on this idea that you have no ending for. Watch and see how the story just spills out of you and how the writing itself isn't that bad when you are done.

KTC
05-19-2008, 07:54 PM
My advice: Cut the crap and write. Just write.

Prawn
05-19-2008, 08:33 PM
You suck.

We all do!

Since we all suck, go ahead and write your sucky novel.

You can always fix it in the edit.

We all do!

P.S. Your original post is 250 words long. If you can do that four times a day, you will have a 90K word novel in 3 months. Get going!

sunandshadow
05-19-2008, 08:40 PM
The great thing about ideas is that they are impossible to ruin. They do not get used up. Even if you write 200k words about your idea, then decide that you have done it all wrong, you can always start over, or edit to change just the parts that feel wrong. And those 200k words will not have been wasted because they will have honed your writing abilities and let you get to know your subject and characters better.

eqb
05-19-2008, 11:44 PM
Do you need to know the ending of your novel before you write it, I need to know if I'm doomed to failure.

No, you don't necessarily need to know the end. Nor do you necessarily need to outline. (Maybe, but it's not a given.)

The thing is, each writer uses a different approach. You won't know what works best for you until you've finished a couple novels. So, how to start?

Well, try out a few different approaches. Try writing that outline. If you get stuck there, try writing a few chapters and see how far that gets you. Try a mixture of the two.

And if your brain still balks, try what's called the one-inch picture frame. Decide what the next scene is about, and nothing more. Pick the most important part of that scene and focus on that. Write just that part first. Repeat for the next small section.

Another approach I sometimes use, when I can't decide what comes next, is to write a sloppy description of what I think should happen. No dialog. No real prose. Just a summary that I break down into finer and finer details, until what I have left is real prose. (Except all the time I'm doing that, I pretend I'm not *really* writing, just plot noodling.)

David I
05-20-2008, 02:22 AM
Fear is your friend, so you shouldn't let it throw you off.

Allow me to recommend Ralph Keyes' fine book The Courage to Write (http://www.amazon.com/Courage-Write-Writers-Transcend-Fear/dp/0805074678/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211230281&sr=1-1). Anxiety means you're on to something important. Let the anxiety come out on the page--it gives things a fine energy.

And, as everyone else here has said, just sit down and do it. Lawrence Block is fond of saying that fear and courage are like lightning and thunder: the fear travels faster and arrives first, but the needed courage will be right behind if you just keep working.

Nateskate
05-20-2008, 03:05 AM
In Lord of the Rings, Bilbo tells Gandalf, "I have an ending for my book..."

"And they lived happily everafter to the end of their days..." -something like that.

That is so simplistic, but in reality, that's as close to an ending as you need- does the good guy win or die?

Sum up your story in less than five sentences without any great detail. It helps you to stay focused if you at least have a clue what direction you want to go in.

blacbird
05-20-2008, 03:31 AM
You might write a story that rambles, and sucks. So what? You can fix it.

You haven't read any of my stuff.

caw

runner4life
05-20-2008, 05:56 AM
When I feel that way I know I'm not prepared to actually do the writing. I have to go back over my outline and plan more. Maybe the characters or plot. Most of the time once I start outlining than I feel more comfortable to write.

DoctorShade
05-20-2008, 06:01 AM
Thanks for the help everyone,



And if your brain still balks, try what's called the one-inch picture frame. Decide what the next scene is about, and nothing more. Pick the most important part of that scene and focus on that. Write just that part first. Repeat for the next small section.



That's a method I've been using, I plan the next scene and write it (maybe two scenes if I'm really in the zone). So basically what I'm getting from this is that it's ok to just "Write!" and "Make things up as you go along" . KTC said it best "Cut the crap and write. Just write." lol. But what tehuti said made a lot of sense, thanks.

I think tommorow I will sit down and just start writing again. I'll try to remember that it doesn't matter how it comes out the first time and not to think of what I am writing as a novel because I know that doing that makes it even scarier.

Straka
05-20-2008, 06:11 AM
Failure is define by a goal. I've written 5 books and none have gotten published. But initially that wasn't my goal so they are not in of themselves failures. Now if you want to write, and don't, isn't that also failing?

camlin
05-20-2008, 06:41 AM
What's all this giving failure a bad rap? The best thing that can happen to you is to fail. Failing gives you a chance to learn about yourself. Failure gives you an opportunity to grow.

If writing a novel were easy, everyone would do it. If getting a novel published were easy, everyone would be a published author. But it isn't easy, it's hard, life sucks, get over it and write. Like others have said, look at this with some perspective and you'll see there's no downside to sitting down and writing.

Nobody will be watching you. You don't have to share what you wrote with anyone. So write. If nothing comes to you, take a break and read the thread about learning everything there is to know about writing with Uncle Jim. It's amazing (I'm not sure how to link to it though, but I'm sure someone will). He recommends transcribing the text of novels you like. If your brain isn't working, make your fingers work and transcribe.

But more than anything do not be afraid of failing. Do not be afraid of crap. Write crap, be pretentious, start your book with "It was a dark and stormy night." Just write. If you can't write prose, write the plot outline. If you're stuck on plot, write character histories. That's the great thing about novels, there's so much non-writing work you can do.

Good luck (and get writing!)

Judg
05-21-2008, 12:29 AM
I usually do a mixture of planning and improvising. I plan but I get stuck part way. So I write up what I've planned, and the momentum keeps me going for several more chapters. Then I get stuck. So I stop and plan again. I repeat the process until the book is done.

Each person has to find their own best way of working and it can even vary from one book to another.

As for the negative feelings, I get bogged down in them quite regularly. But I made myself a solemn promise I would finish, revise, polish and shop this book come hell or high water. It helps that many others here have shared that they can't tell the difference between the writing when they were inspired and the writing that came with blood, sweat and tears.

I've been kind of blocked lately with fatigue and schedule issues, but I've promised myself... So I will get back to it. Period.

wood pixie
06-01-2008, 07:57 AM
That's how my novels started. Just an idea.
I did not know how they were going to end.
It was just a matter of writing what I did have and then letting the rest just happen as it happened.

blacbird
06-01-2008, 08:11 AM
What's all this giving failure a bad rap? The best thing that can happen to you is to fail.

No, it's not. Not if it's constant, unending, interminable, immortal. Trust me on this one. Success, at least now and then, is preferable.

caw

Madison
06-01-2008, 09:18 AM
I'm really in love with this idea but I fear that I don't have what it takes to write it.

If you don't try, you'll never know [just what you're worth].

(says Coldplay, who is coming out with a new album SOON!)

Like a lot of people have said, it's okay to write crap for a first draft. It can be hard to do that - I've had a lot of trouble giving myself permission to write crap in the novel below. But if I don't, then I usually stare at the keyboard for an obscene amount of time trying to decide how to write one sentence. Bad! It gets easier to just write without worrying about perfection with practice, and I bet you'll find that what you thought was crap when you first wrote it wasn't crap after all. That's what I've found with said novel. Good luck :)

blacbird
06-01-2008, 09:36 AM
If you don't try, you'll never know

But if you try long enough, enough times, and get nowhere, you just might know.

caw

Mythica
06-01-2008, 09:56 AM
Failing teaches you what not to do :D It's the only way you learn.

Knowing what happens in your book (planning it all out first) gives you something to write. Writing off the top of your head is hard to do, so you might as well know what you're going to write before you start. I never finished a single book before I outlined it all. And besides, if you aren't 100% sure of how you want to end it, it's your book. You can change whatever the heck you want.

Good luck! :D

WordlyVision
06-01-2008, 01:48 PM
It's all about self-discovery of your writing skill, and discovery of the story itself; just as you continue to learn more about yourself, you're also constantly discovering more about your "Inner Writer."
Applying it to the story -- each story is generally a telling of events that happen within a certain amount of time (whether it's known or not doesn't matter) right? So imagine yourself writing about characters' life and what they go through individually and as a group in a journal; you're writing the story of a certain part (or the whole) of their lives. Do you always know what happens to them? Not always. Do you always know everything about them in one sitting? Nearly never.

To put it into a sort of psychological perspective...

The left brain is your Achilles heel most of the time when it comes to writing. It sometimes interferes with the creative side of your brain (the right brain) and might tell you something along the lines of "there can be no mistakes, and it must be "right" the first time; no excuses!" This is not true about writing at all -- in fact, I think failure is one of the best things that can happen to a writer. Your left brain might say "get it 'right' the first time" -- but who knows what the "right" way is until they get at least something "wrong"? It's all about discovery!

The point is: Write in whatever way works best for you! If you think that you might need to have everything planned out before you write, by all means, do so; if you want to try a mix, I'd say write down what the core points are of what you want to say and describe in a chapter, and then let the details and the rest flow from creativity.

Some people find it a help if they move onto other things when they're stuck to spark some inspiration or looking for ideas. Me for example: I draw out my scenes and characters in a chapter when I'm out of ideas or if I'm trying to capture a chapter's events. I'm visually-oriented, so often having an image to work with while writing allows me to try and pinpoint the exact words to describe it.

One other possible "solution:" Give your left brain a "time out" and let your right brain have the spotlight; in other words, just sit down and let your creativity take care of everything -- after all -- that's what it does best when it comes to anything involving pure imagination... such as writing. ;)

But NEVER, EVER tell yourself that you are doomed to failure because you don't write a certain way. You don't need to know the ending of the novel before you write it, or anything before then either for that matter. As a matter o' fact, I think of it as one of the exciting parts of writing: You write a story and then you might surprise yourself witless with the ending.
It's all about experimentation. That's part of what makes writing unique for every one of us: we all have different methods to our madness of writing; you write your story your way. Could you imagine if we all wrote the same way?

a_sharp
06-01-2008, 09:12 PM
Do you need to know the ending of your novel before you write it, I need to know if I'm doomed to failure.
Knowing how it ends helps, but it isn't absolutely necessary. Not having the end in mind is far from failure. The only thing that will doom you to failure is not writing. So much discovery happens in the course of building a novel that it's very difficult to predict at the outset where the story will go. Some writers work best with a plan. Your plan could be a loose outline or a chapter-by-chapter synopsis.

As you go into the actual writing, however, be ready to discover and exploit new turns in the plot, and prepare for your characters to develop in ways you never foresaw. Sometimes a better story direction evolves from the writing, which presents the next dilemma: should I take the story there or stick to my plan?
... I'm really in love with this idea but I fear that I don't have what it takes to write it.The key here is your love for the idea. That emotional connection is sufficient to launch you on your first draft. What happens after that is anybody's guess.

The other day, a new story idea popped into my head and I wrote down a two-page synopsis so I wouldn't lose it. After another day of consideration, I realized (a) it is an extremely powerful story, (b) it's rich with character development and human pathos, and (c) I write thrillers and action adventure, so I wonder, like you, if I can stick with that kind of novel and do justice to the concept. It's carrying my writing to another level, but I won't know if I'm good enough until I write it.