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Use Her Name
05-20-2008, 02:21 AM
Many books I read have alternating stories and chapters. My book, now at 44,445 in Vol 2 (and 22,136 in Vol 1,) has been following only one story trajectory -- the MC's. The only time the other characters (girlfriend, bad guy, work mates) have come into the picture is when he is actually present in the room, so to speak. I've just come on a scene that "must" be done from another characters POV. There is absolutely no way the story can go on without this scene, and also no way the end result is logical without it. I can't write a novel with only one scene in it from another character's POV. If I do the other character's story, I might as well do the love interest and the bad guy-- So I have just expanded the novel quite a bit.

But the other characters will not, can not get the same amount of chapters. The MC gets about 23. I was thinking of giving no more than 6 each. Possibly 9 for the Bad Guy. How would you do this?

TheIT
05-20-2008, 02:25 AM
I just read a published novel which had almost every scene from the MC's POV and I believe exactly two scenes from two other characters' POVs. It worked, so I don't see any problem with switching POV for just the critical scenes.

David I
05-20-2008, 02:31 AM
In my novel Tomorrowville, which will be published next year, I use a pattern of POVs that runs

Two chapters from protagonist
One chapter from character A
Two chapters from protagonist
One chapter from character B
Two chapters from protagonist
One chapter from character C
Two chapters from protagonist
One chapter from character D
Two chapters from protagonist
One chapter from character A...

You get the idea. Of course, towards the end of the book a number of the story lines, which appear to be independent, intertwine with one another, and then you begin to get A&D's story and B&C's story, and you have to choose which POV to use.

But this two-one, two-one pattern seems to be enough to give the protagonist's story great dominance while calling in counterpoints from others. My advice is to play around until you find a rhythm that feels right to you.

Danger Jane
05-20-2008, 02:45 AM
I think David's suggestion is great. It establishes the important character effectively, but lets the POV shifts feel more natural.

DWSTXS
05-20-2008, 02:49 AM
I write 75% of my story from the MC's POV.

For the other 8-10 characters, I sprinkle their story (in their POV) around, whenever needed.
Like sprinkling salt into the soup. Then I stir gently.

JoNightshade
05-20-2008, 02:49 AM
I agree with David as well. There's gotta be some sort of pattern, as far as I'm concerned - something already established. If you give me 20 chapters of MC, then 1 chapter of another character, and then 5 more chapters of the MC... sorry, no. My brain is going to think, "CHEATING!"

MsK
05-20-2008, 03:08 AM
A book comes to mind that I, throroughly, enjoyed. Cecilia Ahern. There's No Place Like Here.
I'm pretty sure it goes like this. Most of the book is the MC's POV in first person (present, I think) and this takes up the majority of chapters. But, maybe 10-15 % of the chapters are from another character's POV and it's written third person (Present???, not sure)
I noticed it because of my own writing, but, it worked for me.

Zoombie
05-20-2008, 03:08 AM
I've seen several books that tried several things...some of them were quite strange.

The Coyote Kings of the Space Age Bachelor Pad. This was a book here that started off with an Epilogue and was told from the varyingly insane POVs of a ton of different characters. You kinda keep them straight by having a character sheet in front of each of their chapters. It...kinda worked. Strange, but it did.

Any Harry Turtledove Book: They jump between characters rapidly, usually with 5-9 pages per character. That works very nicely, giving you a clear view of the whole wide world.

My book, E.L.F: Sticks with one character, but will occasionally have a short aside to someone else. But only occasionally.

Judg
05-21-2008, 12:15 AM
Seeing as my novel starts before the protagonist is born, we get lots of other viewpoints at first, but as we progress, his becomes the most frequent. Toward the end, where many of the characters and the various storylines all come together in one time and place, the viewpoints switch quite rapidly, each usually getting a single scene. Then I wrap up with the protagonist in charge again.

But I didn't set that up deliberately. I wanted multiple viewpoints for various reasons and for each chapter and scene I chose the one that seemed to fit the best. I think it works; we'll see what other people think.

mikeland
05-21-2008, 12:50 AM
Have you read Then We Came To The End by Joshua Ferris?

Most of the book is in first person plural somewhat omniscient. (Yes, you read that correctly.) Then, 200 pages into the book, it suddenly switches to the 3rd person limited POV of a character who has seemed important but peripheral to the narrative. The book sticks with her for a long chapter, almost a short story within the novel. Then, it flips back to the original POV.

Granted, I found it jarring. Well written, but jarring. Still, the book was a National Book Award finalist, so someone must have thought it was a good idea.

Anyway, might be worth checking out.

loquax
05-21-2008, 02:32 AM
You could portray the actions of the character in a series of letters written to the protagonist.

Sadie7th
05-21-2008, 02:37 AM
You could portray the actions of the character in a series of letters written to the protagonist.
That is exactly what I'm doing. The letters are written to the MC from her mother, actually to me from my real mother, who is in prison. But, I was wondering if it would be more effective if I included all letters in one specific chapter, or one in each chapter interposed.

MsK
05-21-2008, 02:43 AM
That is exactly what I'm doing. The letters are written to the MC from her mother, actually to me from my real mother, who is in prison. But, I was wondering if it would be more effective if I included all letters in one specific chapter, or one in each chapter interposed.

I like the idea of the letters being in seperate chapters. Gives the reader something to look forward to.

Telstar
05-21-2008, 05:39 PM
Personally, I hate when books alternate the POV to some minor characters. This works only when there is really no MC.

If you cant do otherwise, go for it.
Edit: Letters are much better, yeah.

Use Her Name
05-21-2008, 06:22 PM
Personally, I hate when books alternate the POV to some minor characters. This works only when there is really no MC.

If you cant do otherwise, go for it.
Edit: Letters are much better, yeah.

This alternating POV is very common in suspense thrillers, mysteries and others similar to the book I am writing. I think that there are times when it is appropriate and times when it is not. I am not sure whether the antagonist and the initiating and reflexive character would be considered minor. They are quite necessary to the book.

Use Her Name
05-21-2008, 06:52 PM
Over the last 2 days I've gone in and written a few of those new POV switching chapters. Now, the thing is really beginning to behave like the kind of novel it is supposed to be. Strangely, the first novel in this 3 book set actually does that already, there the POV of the MC/ his daughter/ the grandfather/ and an assassin. In this one (I'm writing the 2nd book first), I have narrowed the nescessary POVs to the MC/ his girlfriend/ her ex-husband/ and the MC's friend and employer.

Dragonquill
05-23-2008, 03:57 AM
Many books I read have alternating stories and chapters. My book, now at 44,445 in Vol 2 (and 22,136 in Vol 1,) has been following only one story trajectory -- the MC's. The only time the other characters (girlfriend, bad guy, work mates) have come into the picture is when he is actually present in the room, so to speak. I've just come on a scene that "must" be done from another characters POV. There is absolutely no way the story can go on without this scene, and also no way the end result is logical without it.

There are two approaches, as I see it, that you can take here.

First, you can go back and re-write large portions of the book so as to tell the story from multiple (or at least two) points of view, so that the switch in POV to relate this scene isn't so jarring.

Second, you can question whether you really MUST do the scene from the other character's POV. Why must you do so? Is it because it's something that happens strictly to the other character and the MC is not there? Or is it that it reveals some information that you want the reader to know but not the MC?

In either case, I believe there are devices that can get you around the problem while preserving the solo-POV. You could, for example, have the MC find clues to the events and reconstruct them in his mind, perhaps giving him a vivid imaginary vision of what happened. Or you could have a third character be a witness and relate what happened. Or, if it's a matter of information, you could present the MC with a clue-in that the reader will understand, but have it fly over the MC's head.

Single-POV (especially first-person) is definitely limiting, but there are ways to work within the limits.

Edit: I think we cross-posted, and clearly you chose the first approach. Cool, hope it works.

Telstar
05-23-2008, 05:53 PM
Edit: I think we cross-posted, and clearly you chose the first approach. Cool, hope it works.

And I use the second ;)
I hope it works for the OP as I hope what works for me indeed does :)

Phaeal
05-23-2008, 06:40 PM
I can't write a novel with only one scene in it from another character's POV.

Sure you can. If it works, it works.

As for expanding the novel by adding a couple more POV characters, again, if it works, it works. And it does work, as you note, in many popular genres.

There are some novels that gain strength from being limited to a single POV character. The Harry Potter books are an example -- I think that keeping the reader's focus on Harry, so that the reader lives and grows with him, was a wise decision on Rowling's part. However, it did necessitate the introduction of novums like the Pensieve, which was a problematic device as handled. But there it is. The handful of omniscient chapters (Ch. 1, Book 1; Ch. 1, Book 4; Ch. 1, Book 6) were well-done, I think, and didn't strike me as intrusive or disruptive of the overall third person limited (Harry).

girlyswot
05-23-2008, 06:44 PM
Sure you can. If it works, it works.

As for expanding the novel by adding a couple more POV characters, again, if it works, it works. And it does work, as you note, in many popular genres.

There are some novels that gain strength from being limited to a single POV character. The Harry Potter books are an example -- I think that keeping the reader's focus on Harry, so that the reader lives and grows with him, was a wise decision on Rowling's part. However, it did necessitate the introduction of novums like the Pensieve, which was a problematic device as handled. But there it is. The handful of omniscient chapters (Ch. 1, Book 1; Ch. 1, Book 4; Ch. 1, Book 6) were well-done, I think, and didn't strike me as intrusive or disruptive of the overall third person limited (Harry).

Exactly. Harry Potter is a great example. I was also thinking of Diana Gabaldon's series which is told mainly in the first person of the MC. I'd estimate somewhere between 80 and 90% of the series is in this POV. The rest switches to other characters in the 3rd person. Sometimes this is necessary because of the different times (18th and 20th centuries) she's dealing with but other times it happens within the same timeframe, just because she needs to follow another character for a bit. It works just fine.

There is no rule. You have to do what your story needs and make it work. A single chapter in a different POV could be a very powerful tool in the right hands.