High Concept & Crazes like "Snakes on a Plane"

[Jon-Luke]

Do writers go out and consciously try to create a high concept craze like "Snakes on a Plane" or is this really just a lucky concoction of people responding favourably to an idea and the right actors being involved and all of this happening at the right place at the right time?

I watched "Snakes on a Plane" again the other day and its fun but I wonder if one of us came up with the idea if it would get shot down... I mean its a bit of a long shot and in a way the movie only really works because Samuel L. Jackson is in it. Some of the dialogue is snappy and fun, some of the situations are entertaining, but nothing revolutionary.

What do you think - Should scriptwriters and filmmakers be aspiring to try and achieve these kinds of hits or it it just a lucky long shot?

[Monaco]

All writers should think of a high concept for their scripts first. I always do. Just last week I came up with this awesome idea that has never been turned into a film before. I was already doing some research about the subject and then by accident found out that next year they're releasing a new film with JUST THE SAME IDEA AS MINE! It was quite a shock as I've already made a plot line, etc. It was very disappointing. But the good thing is that I knew I'm in the right direction because the guy who wrote a similar script is a well-known writer, the author of several blockbusters. So, yes, the idea is #1 important thing in screenwriting. You can afford to write a bad script with a great idea, but you can't afford the other way around.

[zeprosnepsid]

Well, coming soon to theaters is 'Monsters Vs. Aliens' and 'Cowboys and Aliens'.

High concept has always sold and will always sell. I'm sure they didn't sell Snakes on a Plane based on whether the script was good, they probably sold it on the title alone.

[Monaco]

Oh, and the killer title is another thing. 'Snakes' stand out and one can imagine the conflict/thrill just by reading this title. I think, it shouldn't be hard to create a killer title with a good idea.

[icerose]

Actually "Snakes" had a bit of a rough travel, the writer submitted it, and it sat for over a year, then was rejected, another year passed and the exec, whether on purpose or on accident, assigned "Snakes" to another writer with the same title and story line and everything.

The writer had to sue and won because they had ripped off his story.

[Jon-Luke]

Actually "Snakes" had a bit of a rough travel, the writer submitted it, and it sat for over a year, then was rejected, another year passed and the exec, whether on purpose or on accident, assigned "Snakes" to another writer with the same title and story line and everything.

The writer had to sue and won because they had ripped off his story.

Wow - did not know that, did the writer win the case? As a matter or interest how did he protect his work? Was it copyrighted or some other way?

[icerose]

Wow - did not know that, did the writer win the case? As a matter or interest how did he protect his work? Was it copyrighted or some other way?

He did win, it was copyrighted, and he had saved proof that he had submitted it to them two years before.

[regdog]

I think in some cases movies with real way out there ideas are original ideas.

But in some cases I think the writer and movie is just writing for shock value. IE: the Happening. More than one scene in the movie is gory and disturbing and I think it is only for shock value. One of the commericlas for the movie promotes it as M Night's first "R" rated movie.

If a movie is out there due to it's originality it's a good thing. If it's out there specifically for shock value and controversy I think it shows and the movie isn't very good.

And that's my :Lecture:

[nmstevens]

Wow - did not know that, did the writer win the case? As a matter or interest how did he protect his work? Was it copyrighted or some other way?


I hate to say this -- but I actually came up with this identical idea years ago -- and never bothered to write it.

Why? Because there was actually a TV movie called Fer de Lance -- which was about a bunch of killer snakes getting loose -- not on a plane, but on board on a submarine, and I thought -- eh, it's kind of been done.

Shows what an idiot I am.

I'll tell you though -- long before this movie ultimately went to New Line, where it finally got made, I saw it on the shelf of another exec at another studio and told him that I'd had the idea and hadn't actually done anything with it and he started to tell me the idea -- about how the bad guys were using the snakes to kill some guy who was being sent from one place to another to testify against the mob.

Now, I didn't bother to ask why -- if you could smuggle a bunch of poisoned snakes on board a plane, why you couldn't just smuggle, say, oh, I don't know, maybe -- a bomb -- on board the same plane.

No -- what I asked was -- even if you let a whole bunch of poisonous snake loose on a plane, how could you be sure that they would seek out and kill just the person you wanted them to.

To which he gave a one word answer.

Pheremones.

Well, my wife and I left his office laughing hyterically.

And yet -- there's the movie and how is it that the snakes are supposed their way to their victim?

Pheremones.

Which, so far as I know, snakes may use for mating purposes (I'm not even sure about that), but certainly don't use to recognize either prey or enemies.

I really only have two things to say about "Snakes" -- I actually ultimately read the script, because New Line sent it to me -- this was after Samuel Jackson committed to it, for a rewrite -- and it was awful.

And I pitched my take on how to rewrite it and my comments came down to this -- what you really need in this thing is somebody (other than a bunch of snakes) for Samuel Jackson to play off of -- and that's got to be the witness protection guy.

As written in the script, he was sort of non-entity. He was just a guy who saw whatever it was and he's going to testify. He was the simply the male equivalent of a damsel in distress. There was no reason, really, for Samuel Jackson to say anything to him. For all intents and purposes, he might as well have been a mail sack.

And I said -- why not make him a minor bad guy (as indeed most guys in witness protection are) -- so that there's some basis for hostility between Jackson, who's a kind of straight arrow, and the Witness Protection guy, who starts out really just out for himself, but over the course of the movie, he sort of reforms and so he has somewhere to go, and in the meantime, he can be kind of smart-ass and so you can have sort of fun interplay with Jackson doing that kind of pissed off stuff that people love to see him doing.

And they said no. They don't like that. Because, you see, if the witness protection guy was a "bad guy" -- then people wouldn't identify with him.

Yes. That was the note. Because, you see, audiences don't identify with criminals.

Maybe you didn't know that, but according to the people I was pitching to, that's the case.

So they didn't go with my pitch. I don't know whose pitch they went with, or if they ultimately just shot it the way it was.

Second thing is -- I haven't seen it. It not only got terrible reviews, which was not unanticipated, to was a bomb at the box office, despite being tremendously anticipated, which only goes to show that, even with a very successful marketing campaign, at a certain point you actually have to deliver a movie that delivers something like what the campaign promises.

NMS

[Daydreamer]

Why? Because there was actually a TV movie called Fer de Lance -- which was about a bunch of killer snakes getting loose -- not on a plane, but on board on a submarine, and I thought -- eh, it's kind of been done.

Shows what an idiot I am.


How can this really be an issue?
I mean there are tons of movies that aren't just close to another movie, but actually identical. And I'm not talking about remakes.
I'm talking about movies like "Made of Honor". I haven't seen the film, but I've seen the trailer and read about it in movie magazines. When I saw that trailer, I thought this was "My Best Friend's Wedding". The only thing that's different is that Patrick Dempsey has Julia Robert's role, but apart from the gender switch in the lead roles, it's the same story.

So, does it really matter if there has been another film dealing with a similar story? I don't think so (well, then again, I'm not a Hollywood insider or anything facy like that).
I think for many movies, it's just the marketing campaign that eventually sells the movie. And I'm especially talking about the many recent romcoms (it's funny, most of them star one "Grey's Anatomy" star or other). They have a huge marketing campaign and a lots of people (me included:)) go watch these movies. We know they make us happy, but don't really live up to our expectations. I think the nineties were pretty much the time for good romcoms (all good classics (apart from classic classics, obviously) are from that decade: Pretty Woman, Notting Hill, Four Weddings..., You've Got Mail etc.).

Okay, this post got a little out of hand, so I'll stop.

[Jon-Luke]

How can this really be an issue?
I mean there are tons of movies that aren't just close to another movie, but actually identical. And I'm not talking about remakes.
I'm talking about movies like "Made of Honor". I haven't seen the film, but I've seen the trailer and read about it in movie magazines. When I saw that trailer, I thought this was "My Best Friend's Wedding". The only thing that's different is that Patrick Dempsey has Julia Robert's role, but apart from the gender switch in the lead roles, it's the same story...

:D So is anyone out there planning to write "Snakes on a Train"? It would be similar but different and we could get Queen Latifah in the lead I'm sure. :Sun:

[nmstevens]

:D So is anyone out there planning to write "Snakes on a Train"? It would be similar but different and we could get Queen Latifah in the lead I'm sure. :Sun:
No, but just for the record, in case anybody is thinking about it, "Rabid Chinchillas in a Winnebago" is taken.

NMS

[mario_c]

Two words: Irwin Allen.

[LIVIN]

All I know is I have not seen Snakes on a Plane, don't really have much of a desire to and I'm not writing Snakes on a Train.

[Raghu]

I'll tell you though -- long before this movie ultimately went to New Line, where it finally got made, I saw it on the shelf of another exec at another studio

And yet -- there's the movie and how is it that the snakes are supposed their way to their victim?

I actually ultimately read the script, because New Line sent it to me -- this was after Samuel Jackson committed to it, for a rewrite -- and it was awful.

It not only got terrible reviews, which was not unanticipated, to was a bomb at the box office, despite being tremendously anticipated, NMS

NMS,

As a produced screenwriter and a man in the thick of the film industry, what reasons do you ascribe to crappy scripts like this getting past writers and rewriters like you and getting filmed ?

:):):)

[Jon-Luke]

NMS,

As a produced screenwriter and a man in the thick of the film industry, what reasons do you ascribe to crappy scripts like this getting past writers and rewriters like you and getting filmed ?

:):):)

Maybe it was because Samuel L. Jackson became attached... But then the question remains "Why did he agree to do it?"

[Daydreamer]

Maybe it was because Samuel L. Jackson became attached... But then the question remains "Why did he agree to do it?"

Well, who could forget Cuba Gooding Jr.'s famous words from 'Jerry Maguire'?

:)

[LIVIN]

Well, who could forget Cuba Gooding Jr.'s famous words from 'Jerry Maguire'?

:)

Show me... ? ... show me ...

Was it... Show me a great script?

[Jon-Luke]

Well, who could forget Cuba Gooding Jr.'s famous words from 'Jerry Maguire'?

:)

Well if it was for the money - the question still remains, who decided to put money into it and why?

[regdog]

Maybe they decided to bankroll the movie so they could take it as a tax loss.:Shrug:

[icerose]

Well if it was for the money - the question still remains, who decided to put money into it and why?

It's because there's a certain target audience would pay to see that low budget (for them) crap fest and enjoy it and pay money for it and they could pretty much guarantee at least a low profit, but still a profit.

[crimsonlaw]

:D So is anyone out there planning to write "Snakes on a Train"? It would be similar but different and we could get Queen Latifah in the lead I'm sure. :Sun:


We should really think more outside of the box here. Like...

Eels on a Bus (go round and round... with DOOM!)
Scorpions on a Segway
Snow Leopards on a Tandem Bicycle
Termites on a Hot Air Balloon
Fleas on a Wheelchair

Ok, everyone take one and write! We'll be millionaires by Christmas!!! :hooray:

[Mr Sci Fi]

All writers should think of a high concept for their scripts first. I always do. Just last week I came up with this awesome idea that has never been turned into a film before. I was already doing some research about the subject and then by accident found out that next year they're releasing a new film with JUST THE SAME IDEA AS MINE! It was quite a shock as I've already made a plot line, etc. It was very disappointing. But the good thing is that I knew I'm in the right direction because the guy who wrote a similar script is a well-known writer, the author of several blockbusters. So, yes, the idea is #1 important thing in screenwriting. You can afford to write a bad script with a great idea, but you can't afford the other way around.

Are you kidding me? If that were the case, films like Kindergarten Cop and Mr. Nanny would win Academy Awards while groundbreaking films like Juno and No Country For Old Men would get snubbed time and again. This sort of mentality is ridiculous at best, and it's what is ruining Hollywood.

[Mr Sci Fi]

Oh, by the way, "Snakes on a Train" is already out. The snakes actually impregnate a woman and they come out of her on the train. No joke.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0843873/

The Director also filmed some other highly original ideas, such as "The Da Vinci Treasure" and "When a Killer Calls."

[Jon-Luke]

Oh, by the way, "Snakes on a Train" is already out. The snakes actually impregnate a woman and they come out of her on the train. No joke.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0843873/

The Director also filmed some other highly original ideas, such as "The Da Vinci Treasure" and "When a Killer Calls."

Looks like the writer Eric Forsberg has also had some success writing "highly original ideas" like: 30, 000 leagues under the sea, War of the worlds two and look, he's a jack of all trades, Director, Writer, Producer, Cinematographer and Makeup Artist.

Crimsonlaw - my favorite out of your ideas is Termites on a Balloon, especially if they start eating the basket!:)

[Mr Sci Fi]

Looks like the writer Eric Forsberg has also had some success writing "highly original ideas" like: 30, 000 leagues under the sea, War of the worlds two and look, he's a jack of all trades, Director, Writer, Producer, Cinematographer and Makeup Artist.


Yeah, the distributer just recently released "Alien Vs. Hunter." I need to get my hands on that masterpiece.

[nmstevens]

Well if it was for the money - the question still remains, who decided to put money into it and why?

It was a high concept movie and I think that it was bought on the basis of the concept, with the hope, on the part of the studio that, really, whatever the script's problems were, they could either be fixed or, really, they weren't going to matter all that much, because so long as you had a snake, a plane, a bunch of snake on plane type set pieces -- and Samuel Jackson, that the movie would be a hit.

As for Samuel Jackson -- he committed to the project on the strength of the title -- he wanted to be in a movie called, "Snakes on a Plane" -- and I think most of the buzz sort of came down to the same thing -- it sounds like a cool idea for a movie. A plane in flight -- a whole bunch of snakes get loose -- somehow. And there's Samuel Jackson in the middle of it, all sort of pissed off and being Samuel Jackson, having to deal with it all.

Only problem was -- they never did fix the script. They just shot it pretty much the way it was, with all the original script problems intact, sort of hoping that, with enough snakes and enough Samuel Jackson, that nobody would notice just how crappy it actually was.

Unfortunately -- people noticed.

NMS

[LIVIN]

Has anyone started writing, "There's a Snake in My Pants" yet?

[GigiZ]

Has anyone started writing, "There's a Snake in My Pants" yet?

The female lead in that movie will say to the male lead at some point: "Is that a snake in your pants or are you just happy to see me?"

And he'll say: "No, I'm hap- ... hap-... hAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!"

You guess the rest.

[mario_c]

Oh, by the way, "Snakes on a Train" is already out. The snakes actually impregnate a woman and they come out of her on the train. No joke.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0843873/

The Director also filmed some other highly original ideas, such as "The Da Vinci Treasure" and "When a Killer Calls."Welcome to the Grindhouse, kids. You have to credit these people for having king sized ba-no, actually, you don't. It would almost be fun to rent these and mock them mercilessly...

[GigiZ]

Welcome to the Grindhouse, kids. You have to credit these people for having king sized ba-no, actually, you don't. It would almost be fun to rent these and mock them mercilessly...

Which is why people made "snakes on a plane" too. Because they knew that people would pay to see it in order to mock it.

[Mr Sci Fi]

Which is why people made "snakes on a plane" too. Because they knew that people would pay to see it in order to mock it.

I know I did. Waited for it to hit cable though first.

[Mr Sci Fi]

Looks like the writer Eric Forsberg has also had some success writing "highly original ideas" like: 30, 000 leagues under the sea, War of the worlds two and look, he's a jack of all trades, Director, Writer, Producer, Cinematographer and Makeup Artist.


You've gotta read the synopsis of this guy's first movie. Wow.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312823/

[Jon-Luke]

Here it is: "A teenage boy, troubled and alone wanders the grassy hills looking for something. He settles on a slope and searches for some activity to amuse him. He begins to pick pieces of his body off and taste them. This seems like a good thing to do. So he removes his eye, his face and finally his own guts and eats them all in an orgy or ecstasy and gore."

I had to check the details again to see if it was feature length - Thankfully its only 7mins. And I have to agree - Wow.

[ricetalks]

Is any one really aspiring to write "Snakes on a Plane" on their own time? Is this really anything that anyone really thinks is a GOOD film? Are you serious about thinking this is a great title? The film BOMBED and, thank the film Gods, for a damn good reason. Why not think of writing something with a bit more subtlety like "Hand in a Meatgrinder". Jeez, I wonder what that would be about. I know we could get Sameul L. Jackson in there to say, "Damn, I hate mother--ckin' meat grinders."

Hey! I got an idea! We could make the SEQUEL to "Snakes on a Plane" and call it "Plane on a Snake: The Revenge!"

[Lillyth]

Here it is: "A teenage boy, troubled and alone wanders the grassy hills looking for something. He settles on a slope and searches for some activity to amuse him. He begins to pick pieces of his body off and taste them. This seems like a good thing to do. So he removes his eye, his face and finally his own guts and eats them all in an orgy or ecstasy and gore."

I had to check the details again to see if it was feature length - Thankfully its only 7mins. And I have to agree - Wow.

Yeah, but, here's the thing:

HE GOT PAID!!!!

Here we are trying to write with some artistic integrity, and there he is, no doubt laughing all the way to the bank.

On the bright side, if stuff like that can be produced, so can anything you or I are writing...

[LIVIN]

Yeah, but, here's the thing:

HE GOT PAID!!!!


Who said they got paid?

[icerose]

Who said they got paid?

After the court battle he did...

[LIVIN]

That was in reference to "It Took Guts" not "Snakes on a Plane."

[Billingsgate]

How do you explain "no concept, no plot, no characters" movies like "Wanted"? I just saw it, only because my credit card company sent free tickets to the premiere. There was no story that I could discern, not a shred of personality, and the sparse dialogue sucked to the max. Aside from some tepid ripoffs from The Matrix, this movie looked as if someone turned on one of those blood-and-gore computer games, started recording, then stopped recording 90 minutes later and sent it out for release. The stars, Angelina Jolie and Morgan Freeman, looked half-asleep (and they probably were; they weren't required to come up with the energy required to inject any personality into their roles). It was probably the worst special-effect-car-chases-and-nothing-else-whatsoever movie I've ever seen.

How did anyone have the balls to submit a script like this? And why did any producer put a dime into it? Why am I bothering with such petty things as story, character arc and dialogue, when all I really need to do is turn on one of my son's violent games and submit it directly for theatrical release?

Thankfully I write for TV, the last bastion of story and characters.

[Lillyth]

How do you explain "no concept, no plot, no characters" movies like "Wanted"? I just saw it, only because my credit card company sent free tickets to the premiere. There was no story that I could discern, not a shred of personality, and the sparse dialogue sucked to the max. Aside from some tepid ripoffs from The Matrix, this movie looked as if someone turned on one of those blood-and-gore computer games, started recording, then stopped recording 90 minutes later and sent it out for release. The stars, Angelina Jolie and Morgan Freeman, looked half-asleep (and they probably were; they weren't required to come up with the energy required to inject any personality into their roles). It was probably the worst special-effect-car-chases-and-nothing-else-whatsoever movie I've ever seen.

How did anyone have the balls to submit a script like this? And why did any producer put a dime into it? Why am I bothering with such petty things as story, character arc and dialogue, when all I really need to do is turn on one of my son's violent games and submit it directly for theatrical release?

Thankfully I write for TV, the last bastion of story and characters.
That really sucks. I had high hopes for wanted.

As for recording one of your son's video games, I don't allow mine to own a video game system let alone play them - does this mean A) I will never sell a script? OR, B) I should allow him such drivel so I can rip off the idea & sell it?

;)

I had never thought of TV like that before, but now that you say it like that, I guess it makes total sense. Maybe I should re-think my whole idea of it... (I haven't watched an episode of anything (of my own volition) since Buffy, Angel, X-Files & Millenium were all on. - Presumably the episode of Ghost Whisperer I saw tonight because my hubby had his wisdom teeth out & turned that on doesn't count).

[Jon-Luke]

I have to agree that there has been some great writing on TV shows of late. This may have all started with ER one of the first shows where the writers gained control. If you look at the credits you'll see that most of the writers have producer credits too... Gone are the days in TV where directors and producers have all the control - Now the writers are the producers and its showing. There are a number of shows with good writing, a few of my personal favorites are: "Life", "Dexter", "Rome" & "My Name is Earl".

I know that TV can seem very formulaic, but if you consider the story lines and creativity being achieved within that rigid structure and its pretty commendable I think.

[nmstevens]

How do you explain "no concept, no plot, no characters" movies like "Wanted"? I just saw it, only because my credit card company sent free tickets to the premiere. There was no story that I could discern, not a shred of personality, and the sparse dialogue sucked to the max. Aside from some tepid ripoffs from The Matrix, this movie looked as if someone turned on one of those blood-and-gore computer games, started recording, then stopped recording 90 minutes later and sent it out for release. The stars, Angelina Jolie and Morgan Freeman, looked half-asleep (and they probably were; they weren't required to come up with the energy required to inject any personality into their roles). It was probably the worst special-effect-car-chases-and-nothing-else-whatsoever movie I've ever seen.

How did anyone have the balls to submit a script like this? And why did any producer put a dime into it? Why am I bothering with such petty things as story, character arc and dialogue, when all I really need to do is turn on one of my son's violent games and submit it directly for theatrical release?

Thankfully I write for TV, the last bastion of story and characters.

Well, nobody "submitted" a script for "Wanted."

It was an assignment based off of a graphic novel. Or to be precise, it was developed off the first issue of a comic book that was ultimately going to become a graphic novel.

If you want to know why movie like these happen, I'll tell you in two words.

"Set Pieces."

This has become a business that is largely driven by directors who are not writers. And those directors (and producers as well) think in terms of set pieces -- big, memorable action sequences, or incidents, or exchanges, that are cool -- that will make "trailer moments."

And, more and more, in movies such as this, the job of the writer is that of a connector-upper. They lay out all of these "set pieces" that they want to see in the movie, and his job is to somehow or other, crow bar all of these set pieces, which were not conceived of for any particular reason, other than that they looked cool - not in service of character, not for advancing a story, not for developing a theme -- and simply string them together, connect them up. Get them all in, somehow.

And that is why so many contemporary movies -- especially modern action/adventure films, are such bloated messes. Because they are simply vehicles for displaying these "set pieces" as if they were adventure rides at Disney Land like, oh, I don't know -- Pirates of the Caribbean.

NMS