"selling out"

[Ron Maiden]

ok, not sure if that's the best phrase for the title, but anyways :
has anyone written some "crowd-pleaser" to try and gain attention rather than things that really interest them?
what i'm getting at, is i'm a lover of horror and sci-fi mostly, the scripts i've written and subbed to competitions have been a horror/ghost story, a horror/sci-fi thingy and a cops/robbers one that's a little bit brutal. i like to think that they're a little bit original, 'specially my last one, but they were subjects i loved, i really got into them re the writing, research, etc etc. and of course, apart from a Finalist and a Semi-Finalist, i got nowt out of it. that same year, one of the compos i'd subbed, blue cat, announced the winner, that was picked up and actually filmed, gary the tennis coach, or some such thing. now, not to dis the writer of that because all congrats to him winning etc, but fkn Hell, y'know? i'm sitting here spending ages and ages of plots and twists and trying to make everything logical and abiding to the rules of the universes i create, and along comes the winner of a compo that's just a yet-another rehash of the "loser sports guy/team struggles back to win the grand prize/match/whatever". how many times has THAT been filmed? i think virtually every sport known to man has had it done.

so - would/has anyone put aside something close to their heart and thought "right, 4 of these types of movie have been made, *I'm* gonna do one", even if it's a subject you hate?

[Mac H.]

If you write as a hobby to please yourself, then just stick to writing what interests you.

However, if you want to do it professionally, then you will be working on on OTHER people's projects.

There is probably some alternative universe where professional screenwriters sit around only write what interests them.

But it isn't this universe.
(Don't take my word for it, though ... ask all the pro screenwriters you can)

I do screenwriting as a hobby, so am free to stick to what interests me.

I'm happy to see other hobbyists here - some of the others are too professional and dour !

Have a great day,

Mac

[nielsty]

Have you read the script? It might be really, really good. I don't think you can judge a script by its title. The writer probably has put as much effort in it as you if not more, since he won. I'm actualy quite sure of this, because the screenwriting competion judges don't have to think as much about marketability as a prodco would.

[Daydreamer]

so - would/has anyone put aside something close to their heart and thought "right, 4 of these types of movie have been made, *I'm* gonna do one", even if it's a subject you hate?

I am interested in more than one genre. I like writing dramas, even though I know it makes things a bit harder for an aspiring writer.
But I also love comedies, especially romantic comedies. Currently, I'm writing a romcom that you might just fit in your description as a 'boring, mass-pleasing' script. But I like writing it, I really do. At the same time, I'm trying my best at a serious play.
But I don't really prefer one to the other. Sometimes I'm more in the mood for comedies, at other times I prefer working on the drama; it all depends on the moment.
It's like with people. You're probably not always behaving in the same way. Sometimes one is deep and serious with, at other times one can be really silly. And that's okay. People don't have to be deep all the time.
So my advice to you:
If you feel that writing the stuff you're writing is giving you a disadvantage, then just write something else. I'm sure there is some kind of story that might appeal to more people and that you might find interesting and entertaining to write. Maybe a sexy thriller or a screwball comedy or whatever will do the trick for you.
Good luck.

[regdog]

Why can't you do both? Write what you love for you and write what sells for others. It doesn't mean your selling out or giving in. One will pay the bills and the other is your passion.

Micahel Caine was asked why he ever made Jaws the Revenge and he said to pay off the mortgage on his home. He knew that movie wasn't a gold star in his career but the pay made it worth it.

[LIVIN]

My favorite movies to watch are pshycological dramas and/or comedies - two totally different types of movies. Is one better than the other? No. They each have their place. Simultaneously, I'd say those might be my two favorite types of movies to write. I couldn't imagine sticking to writing one genre my entire life - that already has not been the case. I write what I'm interested in writing. Anyway, I hope you've read the script before making such a post.

Also, I think everyone prior to me in this thread has made some good points. Hope it's helpful.

[creativexec]

Why can't you do both?

I think a successful writer has the knack of finding subject matter he loves that ALSO has a universality. It's not "selling out," it's one of the inherent talents of being able to start and sustain a writing career.

Anyway, how can you "sell out" if you haven't sold anything?

Sounds amateurish to me.

I am interested in more than one genre.

It behooves all new writers to brand themselves. Find ONE genre you like best and stick with it. As a result, you'll get better at it AND an agent or manager will be able to "sell you." Be the "comedy guy." Be the "go to" girl with romantic comedies. Having a portfolio with different genres is not helpful to most reps who want to market you.


:)

[nmstevens]

ok, not sure if that's the best phrase for the title, but anyways :
has anyone written some "crowd-pleaser" to try and gain attention rather than things that really interest them?
what i'm getting at, is i'm a lover of horror and sci-fi mostly, the scripts i've written and subbed to competitions have been a horror/ghost story, a horror/sci-fi thingy and a cops/robbers one that's a little bit brutal. i like to think that they're a little bit original, 'specially my last one, but they were subjects i loved, i really got into them re the writing, research, etc etc. and of course, apart from a Finalist and a Semi-Finalist, i got nowt out of it. that same year, one of the compos i'd subbed, blue cat, announced the winner, that was picked up and actually filmed, gary the tennis coach, or some such thing. now, not to dis the writer of that because all congrats to him winning etc, but fkn Hell, y'know? i'm sitting here spending ages and ages of plots and twists and trying to make everything logical and abiding to the rules of the universes i create, and along comes the winner of a compo that's just a yet-another rehash of the "loser sports guy/team struggles back to win the grand prize/match/whatever". how many times has THAT been filmed? i think virtually every sport known to man has had it done.

so - would/has anyone put aside something close to their heart and thought "right, 4 of these types of movie have been made, *I'm* gonna do one", even if it's a subject you hate?

I'd be willing to be that the writer of that "Gary the Tennis Coach" movie probably loves those kinds of movie -- the ones that you all put in a bunch -- as much as you love the genres that you write in -- and in turn, he may dismiss horror and cop movies as being "all the same" and just a bunch of junk and may wonder if he might be forced to one day write one of those "crowd-pleaser" type horror or action movies.

People who write successful movies do it by writing whatever kind of movies they write *successfully* -- that is, they write that particular kind of movie well. They do it by understanding that kind of movie deeply, by understanding what makes it work.

Why would you think that you'd be able to write in a genre you don't like, don't watch, don't care about -- and do a good job in it, any more than somebody who, say, doesn't watch horror, doesn't like it, doesn't care about it, would be able to write a good horror movie, or a good action movie or a good -- fill in the blank.

The current series of "Doctor Who" was brought back to life by Russell Davies, whose only significant TV credits for the BBC prior to that was their original version of Queer as Folk, which, on the surface, doesn't seem like much in the way of credentials for reviving a classic science fiction series.

But apart from what Davies had done as a professional writer, Davies knew and loved Doctor Who. He was devoted to the original series and understood what made it work.

The result is that he's made it one of the most successful series on British television and spun two new series off from it -- which has never happened before in the history of the original.

That comes from knowing and being passionate about what you're writing about.

The fact is, when Davies sits down to write Doctor Who, he's going home to a world that he knows, to characters that he knows and is going on a journey with those characters that he wants to be on.

If you were to sit down to write a sports movie, you'd be in an unfamiliar landscape of strangers in a place you didn't want to be, with characters you didn't know, going someplace you didn't really even want to go.

Why, in that situation, would you imagine that you'd all end up in a good place -- namely, with a first rate story excellently told?

That being said, I guess the question that I have to ask is -- why are you focusing on sending your scripts to contests rather than sending them to companies?

If you feel that they're ready to win prizes in the former, why aren't they ready to be bought by the latter?

NMS

[LIVIN]

I'd be willing to be that the writer of that "Gary the Tennis Coach" movie probably loves those kinds of movie -- the ones that you all put in a bunch -- as much as you love the genres that you write in -- and in turn, he may dismiss horror and cop movies as being "all the same" and just a bunch of junk and may wonder if he might be forced to one day write one of those "crowd-pleaser" type horror or action movies.

Good point.

I rarely watch horror movies and, currently, have zero interest in writing a horror script.

[LIVIN]

That being said, I guess the question that I have to ask is -- why are you focusing on sending your scripts to contests rather than sending them to companies?

If you feel that they're ready to win prizes in the former, why aren't they ready to be bought by the latter?


I'd like to field these questions.

While I do not disagree with your second point, when sending to prodcos there's a hurdle you have to get over - getting the script read. So, if you don't have a reason for getting the scripts read (finalist in Nicholl, etc), then it seems like an added hurdle. With so many scripts out there, I guess the reasoning could be to differentiate yourself - being able to say, "I won this prestigious contest" or whatever.

[icerose]

Since the others have answered the script side, I'll put in a word about contests.

Contests do not look at marketability as a first recourse. They look at quality and sure, they have prejudices.

Horrors and such rarely if ever win contests that aren't geared toward horrors. It's not because of their writing quality, it's because it's not what the judges are looking for. They're looking for amazing characters, life changing stories and that sort of thing. Why not enter an actual horror contest, then see where you stand against other horror scripts, that would be far more beneficial than going against period dramas and such.

[dageezer]

I'd like to field these questions.

While I do not disagree with your second point, when sending to prodcos there's a hurdle you have to get over - getting the script read. So, if you don't have a reason for getting the scripts read (finalist in Nicholl, etc), then it seems like an added hurdle. With so many scripts out there, I guess the reasoning could be to differentiate yourself - being able to say, "I won this prestigious contest" or whatever.

I agree to a point.

Back in the good ol' days, when contests were few and far between, sometimes it got a raised eyebrow look when a writer would have a win under their belt. But today, there's so many contests floating around (many in my humble opinion are a waste of time, effort and money) that it's not that big of a deal anymore.

There's a few, like Nicholl as you pointed out, that still has a great reputation and has opened a few doors for some.

[nmstevens]

I'd like to field these questions.

While I do not disagree with your second point, when sending to prodcos there's a hurdle you have to get over - getting the script read. So, if you don't have a reason for getting the scripts read (finalist in Nicholl, etc), then it seems like an added hurdle. With so many scripts out there, I guess the reasoning could be to differentiate yourself - being able to say, "I won this prestigious contest" or whatever.

Other than the Nicholl awards, there are very few contests where a win is going to get your script read.

The "town" will read the Nicholl award winners. At any rate, they'll get covered and the coverage, at least, will make the rounds.

But as others have pointed out, the criteria that the judges use in choosing the winner of a contest like The Nicholl awards is rarely the criteria that producers apply when choosing movies to develop. So they may read them, they may even like them -- but that doesn't mean that they'll buy them.

That's a real question when you're dealing with something like a horror movie. If I were looking for a horror movie and somebody said -- Oh, here's my horror script -- it came in third in the Nicholl Awards -- I'd think -- what the hell kind of horror script is this, that would win a Nicholl Award?

That is, knowing *their* criteria for giving out awards, it would almost give me pause up front to wonder just what kind of "horror" movie would fit those criteria.

NMS

[mario_c]

Getting back on topic - I divide my ideas into, Spec Series and Director Series. Obviously the scripts that are more accessible, more a fast read and - lets face it - more formulaic, are the former, and my weirder or intensely personal ideas are the latter. I'm not ashamed to write horror or action, or both. If I can sway a producer into funding my "art", where's the bad? Like the great authors of novels who started in the "pulp" and "grindhouse" worlds, from Elmore Leonard to Stephen "Richard Bachman" King to Coppola (who started in skin flicks) it's taking steps up that ladder to greatness.

PS I got covered by BlueCat too. Gordy Hoffman's crew is really great, while they didn't LOVE The Propeller their coverage really got to the point and helped tremendously.

[zeprosnepsid]

I wouldn't write anything you hate. But I write two different kinds of scripts. Fantasy drama stuff that is really hard to sell but is really what I like, and comedies. But it's because I've always been good at writing comedies and they are very easy for me to write even though I don't like comedies. But they are easier to sell so even though it's not my preferred genre, I come up with ideas that interest me, and go from there.

So there's nothing wrong with doing both, although trying to predict the market is often counterproductive. But I'd only do if there is a reason. Like you happen to be very good at horror scripts. You will never finish something you hate.

[GigiZ]

Micahel Caine was asked why he ever made Jaws the Revenge and he said to pay off the mortgage on his home. He knew that movie wasn't a gold star in his career but the pay made it worth it.[/quote]

Michael Caine has also said that he once accepted a role because the script opened like this:
INT. SOUTH OF FRANCE - DAY

!!!:)

I personally think that the best way to get your foot in the door is write the stuff you like and get representation and/or place in a contest because you're good. If people know you're good -and good at something specific- they'll call you. Or they won't. Which is why Michael Caine said yes to Jaws the Revenge.

[GigiZ]

Micahel Caine was asked why he ever made Jaws the Revenge and he said to pay off the mortgage on his home. He knew that movie wasn't a gold star in his career but the pay made it worth it.

Michael Caine has also said that he once accepted a role because the script opened like this:
INT. SOUTH OF FRANCE - DAY

!!!:)

Actually, that was EXT. SOUTH OF FRANCE
...naturally

[Blondchen]

All I can say is this:

Remember who wrote the Stuart Little screenplay.

[mario_c]

All I can say is this:

Remember who wrote the Stuart Little screenplay.Don't be hatin'.:poke:

[Blondchen]

Don't be hatin'.:poke:

I'm not hating at all! He used the $$ to make Sixth Sense. Might be the smartest example of "selling out" ever.

[mario_c]

I'm not hating at all! He used the $$ to make Sixth Sense. Might be the smartest example of "selling out" ever.OIC...like Oliver Stone with Conan The Barbarian and Scarface. Or John Carpenter with Eyes of Laura Mars (well OK all these guys had indie features under their belts already, but the point remains).
Previous post: it's famously why Michael Caine didn't go to the Oscars the night he won for Hannah And Her Sisters, because he was relaxing on the boat or beach filming Jaws: The Revenge. What a great job...

[Monaco]

Michael Caine has also said that he once accepted a role because the script opened like this:
INT. SOUTH OF FRANCE - DAY

!!!:)

Actually, that was EXT. SOUTH OF FRANCE
...naturally

Was that Dirty Rotten Scoundrels? (I LOVED that movie!)

[Lillyth]

All I can say is this:

Remember who wrote the Stuart Little screenplay.
I had NO idea M. Night wrote that! Holy Crap!!!!

(By the by, I found it a very touching script)...

[Ron Maiden]

"Or John Carpenter with Eyes of Laura Mars"

??
how's that "selling out"? I'd say that film was classic Carpenter.

[GigiZ]

Was that Dirty Rotten Scoundrels? (I LOVED that movie!)

Simply put, a masterpiece.

[mario_c]

"Or John Carpenter with Eyes of Laura Mars"

??
how's that "selling out"? I'd say that film was classic Carpenter.Sorry, I kind of ran with the auteurs selling spec scripts to make a name in Hollywood and finance their edgier dream projects.