Any objections?

[Madison]

Two questions concerning my newest WIP:

1. The main character's name is Sophie; her best friend's name is Sarah. Would these two 'S' names trip you up?

2. The evil group in the book is called Caravel - well, it's more than a group but that's a long story... A caravel, in real life, is "a type of sailing ship common in the 15th to 17th centuries," according to google. The Caravel in my WIP has nothing to do with sailing. So...
a) Did you know what a caravel was?
b) IF you knew: would this bug you - knowing that it's really a ship but isn't a ship at all in the book?

Thank you for any suggestions! :)

[Clarec]

I think the two names will be ok, though sometimes when names are similar, I do get a bit confused. I am easily confused though, to be fair.

I did not know what a caravel was so that wouldn't bother me at all. Quite close to 'cabal' though, not that it particularly matters.

Have at it!

Clare

[Makai_Lightning]

The similar names wouldn't bother me. At least, those two wouldn't. If they both started with "sa" it'd be more problematic, and you might just want to be careful not to have them going back and forth too too much in the same paragraph. I've still got to change the names of some of my characters, because 1/5 of them have C names. And the are main characters, and they all start with "ca". It bothered even me, and I knew the difference. >.< Still need to fix that....

I didn't know what Caravel meant, and I doubt if I did it would bother me much. It did remind me of the ice cream store Carvel though. But that might be because I'm hungry at the moment.

[escritora]

I read somewhere, sorry I can't be specific, that characters starting with the same letter is something publishers frown upon.

No. I didn't know the meaning of Caravel. And yes, if I knew the meaning and the evil group has nothing to do with sailing it would distract me. While reading, I'd think it was a metaphor and I'd look for clues as to why the group chose the name.

[Chris Grey]

Give Sarah and Sophie nicknames if you're worried. "Hey Bubbles!" Sarah called to Sophie across the campus.

I knew what a caravel was and I expect many people have heard of it. Does the organization have a reason for choosing that name? Other than "it sounded cool"?

[t0neg0d]

Two questions concerning my newest WIP:

1. The main character's name is Sophie; her best friend's name is Sarah. Would these two 'S' names trip you up?

2. The evil group in the book is called Caravel - well, it's more than a group but that's a long story... A caravel, in real life, is "a type of sailing ship common in the 15th to 17th centuries," according to google. The Caravel in my WIP has nothing to do with sailing. So...
a) Did you know what a caravel was?
b) IF you knew: would this bug you - knowing that it's really a ship but isn't a ship at all in the book?

Thank you for any suggestions! :)

Holy crap! I knew what a caravel was! Happy dance! I have nothing to add aside from that. >.<

Lies!! It would not bother me in the slightest, as long as you gave me your reason for them deciding on this name--at some point.

As for the the double S-names, no issues here.

[Madison]

Okay - I'll give a reason for Caravel. So far I'm using because, (yes Chris...) 'it sounds cool.' But I'll make up some very important reason.

thanks everyone :)

[FennelGiraffe]

Sophie and Sarah - both start with "S", both have two syllables, and both are female. I've seen worse, and it also depends on how well you've done at giving them distinct voices, but it could be a problem. I think you would be wise to change one of them.

Yes, I know a caravel is a kind of ship, but I don't think it would bother me, as long as the caravel in your story
a) has nothing to do with transportation
b) if it's an object, is either quite small or not built out of wood
c) the first time the word is mentioned, it's very clear what it refers to

[Danger Jane]

I'd say Sophie and Sarah look different enough on the page to keep them.

As far as Caravel goes, yea, give it a reason for the name. Something in the organization's history, or maybe just an acronym--not a seven-letter one, though! Something more like CaRAVL, and since it was so close the group is colloquially called Caravel.

[t0neg0d]

Okay - I'll give a reason for Caravel. So far I'm using because, (yes Chris...) 'it sounds cool.' But I'll make up some very important reason.

thanks everyone :)

I don't think it has to be an 'important' reason. How old are the characters involved? Couldn't 'it sounds cool' be a good enough reason?

It is a good enough reason for most people. It was good enough for you. It is good enough for me (if this matters). Why wouldn't it be good enough for the reader who knows the meaning of the word?

[kuwisdelu]

Sophie and Sarah wouldn't bother me.

I knew what a caravel is, though, and it would bother me if the group has nothing to do with the sailing. If the name's history acknowledges the meaning, somehow, however weird the connection may be, I'd probably find it acceptable, though.

[Cinzia8]

Hey, Jane!

I think the way you explained the purpose of Caravel works. Sophie and Sarah might be a little too close to home, unless there is a connection between them that lies beneath the surface. Rock on!!

Cinzia

[Willowmound]

a) Did you know what a caravel was?

Yes.

b) IF you knew: would this bug you - knowing that it's really a ship but isn't a ship at all in the book?

Why did you choose this name?

[Willowmound]

So far I'm using because, (yes Chris...) 'it sounds cool.' But I'll make up some very important reason.

Then it would bug me.

Names should fit the story, not the other way round.

[Bayley]

I personally don't have two characters names starting with the same letter. I read somewhere that readers can get confused, so I just don't. There are enough letters in the alphabet for each main character to have a seperate letter. It probably wouldn't trip me up as the names sound different, but if you don't want to take that risk, then change one of the names.

I have no clue as to what a Caravel was, although if I did know it might bug me. Can't you spell it slightly differently, like 'Carevel' or 'Caraval'?

[Willowmound]

Those of you who are celebrating a national holiday today may be interested to know that the the Santa Maria, La Pinta and La Niña were all caravels.

[Linda Adams]

I'd have problems with who was who if the two characters were on the page a lot.

Caravel makes me think of carnival.

[BfloGal]

I'm terrible with names -- it would help me as a reader if they were different, but I've seen worse.

Caravel brings C.S. Lewis to mind for me. Pair Caravel was the location the children were trying to get to -- the place of the breaking of the curse. It might cause some to look for religious symbolism.

[tehuti88]

1. Wouldn't bother me at all. I have lots of characters with names starting with the same first letter, and what's more, with the same first basic sound (like "Mishi," "Mishu," or "Mitchi"), so I wonder how much I confuse my readers, but the names you gave are so distinct it wouldn't trip me up. If you adequately differentiate their characters.

2. I'd heard the word before but didn't know what it meant. If I did know what it meant, I might wonder why the author used an existing word to name something when there's no relation to the real object (I might in fact look for a relation in the context of the story, though I'd find none in this case), but it probably wouldn't jar me enough to stop me from reading, if the story was good. :)

I've seen even more common words utilized as the names of things and people in a way that seems to have no relation to the actual meaning of the word; Japanese animation for example seems to do this often. (Off the top of my head I think of an Italian character named "Jacuzzi"!) The more commonly used the word is, the more it would niggle at me (for example, Jacuzzi makes me think, "Couldn't they bother to look up any real Italian names??"), but again, the rest of the story might alleviate that feeling.

[Vomaxx]

Is Sophie wise? Readers who know the name is derived from the Greek word for "wisdom" will wonder if her name is reflective of her character (or alternatively is meant ironically).

An "evil group" called Caravel might make readers think it was derived from "cabal", a group of conspirators.

[steveg144]

Two questions concerning my newest WIP:

1. The main character's name is Sophie; her best friend's name is Sarah. Would these two 'S' names trip you up?

2. The evil group in the book is called Caravel - well, it's more than a group but that's a long story... A caravel, in real life, is "a type of sailing ship common in the 15th to 17th centuries," according to google. The Caravel in my WIP has nothing to do with sailing. So...
a) Did you know what a caravel was?
b) IF you knew: would this bug you - knowing that it's really a ship but isn't a ship at all in the book?

Thank you for any suggestions! :)

1. Change one of the character's names.
2a. Yes I knew what a "caravel" was.
2b. Yes it would bug me; I'd assume the author was trying to come up with
some word that was a real word, sounded vaguely like "cabal", but wasn't.
Bad idea.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

I don't know why people think everything written down has to be true. There's nothing wrong with "Sophie" and "Sarah". Besides two syllables and starting with "S", they're not really that similar.


As for "Caravel", yep, knew what it was, and yes, it did strike me as very odd, especially after the admission that you have no particular reason for it. The point of a Google search is to find if a name needs to be changed. This one probably does. It also reminds me of the use of "Galleon" as a coin in Harry Potter, which drove me nuts, since it also happens to be a ship.

[~grace~]

1. Possibly. Are they the only two main characters? If so that would be difficult. If they're part of a larger group, OK. Or maybe you can make it a "thing," like they're together all the time and nobody can remember which one is Sarah and which one is Sophie. ("No! I'm SOPHIE! Sarah is the one with pigtails!")

or you could just change one...I just agonized over having two one-syllable S names in a WIP and the stronger "S" won out.

2. Kind of. Like I knew it was something, and once you said ship I knew it was a ship. It would bother me. Yes.

[Quossum]

It also reminds me of the use of "Galleon" as a coin in Harry Potter, which drove me nuts, since it also happens to be a ship.

I assumed the coin called a "Galleon" in that novel portrayed a picture of a ship on its face, as the ones called "Eagles" probably showed an eagle, and the ones called "Knuts"--uh...showed, um, whatever one of those is.

I wouldn't mind Sarah and Sophie so long as they weren't introduced together, but all-in-all, I agree with those who say heck, go ahead and change one now while you can.

I didn't know what a caravel was; I would have associated it with "cabal" mentally, and if I had known what it was, I would have been looking for some reason the group chose that name.

--Q

[BlueLucario]

Caravel makes me think of carnival.


It also reminds me of the company that makes birthday cakes.

[blacbird]

My rule of thumb is, if I think something might be a problem, it usually is. In the case of names, I once had two characters surnamed Mathes and Maxwell, and began to have the same question you've asked. Right quick, Maxwell became Barnes. Global replace. End of problem.

caw

[IceCreamEmpress]

(for example, Jacuzzi makes me think, "Couldn't they bother to look up any real Italian names?")

Jacuzzi is a real Italian surname--the whirlpool-bath-thingie is named after its inventor, a gentleman named Roy Jacuzzi.

[blacbird]

Jacuzzi is a real Italian surname--the whirlpool-bath-thingie is named after its inventor, a gentleman named Roy Jacuzzi.

Correct. Just think, it could have been a "smith", or a "johnson".

No . . . wait . . . there's something else already named a "johnson".

caw

[Reilly616]

1.) No, that's fine. 3 of my main characters have have names begining with M.

2.) Yes I knew what it was. No it doesn't bother me.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

I assumed the coin called a "Galleon" in that novel portrayed a picture of a ship on its face, as the ones called "Eagles" probably showed an eagle, and the ones called "Knuts"--uh...showed, um, whatever one of those is.

I wouldn't mind Sarah and Sophie so long as they weren't introduced together, but all-in-all, I agree with those who say heck, go ahead and change one now while you can.

I didn't know what a caravel was; I would have associated it with "cabal" mentally, and if I had known what it was, I would have been looking for some reason the group chose that name.

--Q


Eagles? Don't know about those. "Sickles"? And no, Galleons don't appear to have ships on them. Dragons, I think, though.

[Quossum]

Eagles? Don't know about those. "Sickles"? And no, Galleons don't appear to have ships on them. Dragons, I think, though.

Meh, misremembering then. Or mixing the fictional coinage of various books--maybe Narnia had Eagles. But the point was I didn't assume it was a nonsensical name, even though, if they were called Galleons and portrayed dragons, perhaps it was! :tongue

--Q

[scope]

I can see some being readers being confused or annoyed with two main characters whose names begin with an S.

I didn't know the meaning of Caravel, but if I did it would bother me.

[Chris Grey]

Coins named "Galleons" didn't bother me. Both ships and coins are used in commerce, they're thematically tied.

Caravel, or any ship to those who at least know what the word is, will have connotations of travel, movement, trade, etc. I would assume the organization was some kind of smuggling racket or at least had origins in moving things or people. Travel need not be limited to physical, as, afterall, how many connotations does the word "vessel" have outside of the sea?

As for Sarah and Sophie, the biggest thing to worry about is laziness. This is a serious issue. The human brain is an efficient beast, and it comes up with shortcuts whenever it can to avoid extra work. There are different levels of paying attention and thinking, and people are more comfortable at lower levels. I'll give some very simple examples:

1. Sauron & Saruman. Lots of complaints about these, so let's examine: both start with Sa. Both end with n. All the letters in the middle are uniform height (they're all short letters). The only difference is length. You konw how tehy say taht you can udnretanad a wirtetn sneetcne wtih all wdors msiepeled as lnog as the frist and lsat ltetres are in pclae (You know how they say that you can understand a written sentence with all words mispelled as long as the first and last letters are in place)? Yeah, these two mean you gotta pay a little attention.

2. Frodo & Faramir. Oh man, two good guys whose names both start with F. Nobody ever complains about them. Let's see... Frodo has that tall d in his name, Faramir has all flat letters. Frodo's name is shorter and they end differently. Apart from both starting with F, that's about it. You can read their chapters drunk and not confuse the two.

3. Sophie and Sarah. Sophie has a low p and high h, Sarah ends with a high h (about as far in as Sophie's h). Both have some variation but in different places, they end differently, and the lengths are different but this one is close. I'd say this is a level of paying attention higher than Frodo but lower than Sauron.

I expect a lot of "people should be paying attention anyway" responses. Aye, I agree, but do you want them paying attention to your names or paying attention to your story? The human brain fills in blanks and makes assumptions to process faster, and names are the one place in your story that it should be perfectly allowable to do this. If your readers have to slow down and take note of every time the actor changes, it will slow down their reading, make them focus more on the names than the rest, and frustrate them. People who read before bed at the end of a long day will decide to read something else if your story requires too much attention.

I'd say Sophie & Sarah are fine, but I'd push for nicknames or other ways to describe them since they both use the same pronouns. Any text that involves both of them acting-- and god forbid they get into an argument or catfight-- will be a chore to read.

[blacbird]

I can see some being readers being confused or annoyed with two main characters whose names begin with an S.

I don't think it's so much a matter of both names beginning with the same letter, as it is a matter of both names being so everyday common as to be interchangeable, thus easily confused at any given moment in the mind of the reader.

caw

[ishtar'sgate]

Caravel brings C.S. Lewis to mind for me. Pair Caravel was the location the children were trying to get to
Yes, that's exactly what I thought of. The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
As for the similar names, if it were me I'd change one of them for the sake of clarity. Anything that slows down the reader so they have to doublecheck speakers or character action is something I prefer to eliminate. Confused readers are not happy readers.
Linnea

[maestrowork]

I think it depends on how close the characters are (are they best friends?), are they both main characters, and how similar they are. I once wrote a story where the two protagonists are named Jason and Joel and they confused the heck of my readers. So I changed one of the characters' name. No big deal, it's just a name.

Chris bought up some good points. Frodo and Faramir, for example, are just fine because the names look and sound very different, despite the fact they both start with an "F." One is human and the other a hobbit. And one is a major character and the other a more secondary one.

But I would balk at Sarah and Sophia. Both start with the "So/Sa" sound and end with the "ah" sound. And if they're good friends and hang out a lot and both are important to the story, it may become confusing.

The best way to know is to enlist some beta readers and listen to what they have to say. If more than one person say they're confused by the two names, then consider changing.




How attached are you to either names?

[Moxie]

The character names would definitely pull me out of the story. I find when I'm reading that once I establish the character names I no longer read the whole word, just the first letter or so. And 'Caraval' made me think of Narnia too- even though it's Cair Paravel, not Pair Caraval :)

[Reilly616]

From my experience. Sauron and Saruman (I heard them first in the films) was a b**ch to get my head around.

[BfloGal]

The character names would definitely pull me out of the story. I find when I'm reading that once I establish the character names I no longer read the whole word, just the first letter or so. And 'Caraval' made me think of Narnia too- even though it's Cair Paravel, not Pair Caraval :)

LOL! My fault -- but I Googled 'Pair Caravel' and found it.

If it's on the interenet it has to be true.:Shrug:

For the record -- it is Cair Paravel

[Madison]

Wow... quite a lot of responses and opinions! THanks, guys :)

I think I might change Caravel to Caraval. I pronounce it Car ah vahl in my head anyways. It's a group, does have to do with travel (ish?) ... so it could work, except ... I think I'll tweak it. Caraval it is. Or is that too many 'a's? grr....

Sophie/Sarah. Hm. Chris, thanks for that in-depth analysis :). It helped a lot. And they are best friends; there will be a lot of scenes with just the two of them. So Sarah might have to go. Pity, because she definitely is a Sarah - you know how names fit characters so perfectly sometimes. Oh well.

Thanks again! I really appreciate all the responses.

[blacbird]

So Sarah might have to go. Pity, because she definitely is a Sarah - you know how names fit characters so perfectly sometimes. Oh well.

A point: She is definitely a Sarah to you. I've probably known a dozen Sarahs reasonably well in my life, and met a hundred or more. The name does absolutely nothing to me in terms of evoking a character. It's interchangeable, a feminine name that has been popular since Biblical times, and continues to be so.

I don't put much stock in names as evoking character, until they are associated with a character brought to vividness through narrative means. Often, when a character is given a name intended to evoke character immediately (Ebenezer Scrooge, Simon Legree, etc.), they quickly begin to sound forced and phoney.

caw

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Two questions concerning my newest WIP:

1. The main character's name is Sophie; her best friend's name is Sarah. Would these two 'S' names trip you up?


I don't think they would trip me up, no. The names are different enough that I would probably have an easier time differentiating between the two characters than if their names had similar vowels.

2. The evil group in the book is called Caravel - well, it's more than a group but that's a long story... A caravel, in real life, is "a type of sailing ship common in the 15th to 17th centuries," according to google. The Caravel in my WIP has nothing to do with sailing. So...
a) Did you know what a caravel was?
b) IF you knew: would this bug you - knowing that it's really a ship but isn't a ship at all in the book?

Thank you for any suggestions! :)a) I did not know what a caravel was.
b) It would not bug me. When I first read this word, I thought of a castle in C.S. Lewis' Narnia, Car Paravel (sp?). I have no problem whatsoever, personally, with naming an evil group after a sailing ship.

Best wishes with your manuscript. :)

[aliajohnson]

Those of you who are celebrating a national holiday today may be interested to know that the the Santa Maria, La Pinta and La Niña were all caravels.


I think the Santa Maria was a carrack, actually. Though I could be wrong about that.

As to the OP--
1. Yeah, it might trip me up if I'm reading fast and they have a lot of scenes together.
2.Yep
3. Meh, probably not, but I'm pretty hard to annoy when it comes to things like that. :)

[Willowmound]

I think the Santa Maria was a carrack, actually. Though I could be wrong about that.

I see. No, you might be right.

[Bartholomew]

Two questions concerning my newest WIP:

1. The main character's name is Sophie; her best friend's name is Sarah. Would these two 'S' names trip you up?

2. The evil group in the book is called Caravel - well, it's more than a group but that's a long story... A caravel, in real life, is "a type of sailing ship common in the 15th to 17th centuries," according to google. The Caravel in my WIP has nothing to do with sailing. So...
a) Did you know what a caravel was?
b) IF you knew: would this bug you - knowing that it's really a ship but isn't a ship at all in the book?

Thank you for any suggestions! :)

1) - Not at all.

2a) - Yes, I knew prior to this post.
2b) - Yes, it would bug me, especially knowing that the group had nothing to do with sailing, the ocean, exploration, or trade.

The word caravel can be traced back to a Greek root word: "karabos," meaning Beetle or Shellfish. Hope that helps you come up with something.

ETA

2b) - It might not bug me if the story took place in modern times, where corporations tend to use odd or rare words for their names. Exxon, Quiktrip, Mobil. Caravel would fit in fine with something like that. In fact, if you're talking about a corporation of some sort, I think it is a delightful name.

[Susan Lanigan]

I would not give the two main characters alliterative names. Names are important; they are not just detail. The reader needs to feel the separateness of the two characters.

[Susan Lanigan]

People may think they won't be tripped up - but the difference between what people claim they experience and what they actually do experience can be quite different.

[chevbrock]

I suggest replacing the "S" in "Sarah" with a "T" - Ta da! Her name is now Tarah!

I didn't know what a Caravel was. I like the name, but then again, I named my daughter after a make of car. On the shortlist for her name were "Torana", another make of car (Aboriginal meaning: fast wind) and "Katana", a model of motorbike, also a Japanese sword.

One of my MC's name is "Sabre" in my current WIP - I, too, picked it "because it sounded cool". I don't think there is any shame in that. :)

[tehuti88]

Jacuzzi is a real Italian surname--the whirlpool-bath-thingie is named after its inventor, a gentleman named Roy Jacuzzi.

Ahhh. I was not aware of that!

I think this is a case, however, where the name of the invention has taken over and outlived the name of the inventor. After all, just think of the word Jacuzzi, and the first thing that usually pops to mind is the whirlpool thingie, not a surname. For me, at least. :o

[scope]

I don't think it's so much a matter of both names beginning with the same letter, as it is a matter of both names being so everyday common as to be interchangeable, thus easily confused at any given moment in the mind of the reader.

caw

Good point.

[WendyNYC]

It also reminds me of the company that makes birthday cakes.

Same here. Carvel. Fudgie the Whale cakes.

That was my first thought, even though I knew what it meant.

[Reilly616]

Ahhh. I was not aware of that!

I think this is a case, however, where the name of the invention has taken over and outlived the name of the inventor. After all, just think of the word Jacuzzi, and the first thing that usually pops to mind is the whirlpool thingie, not a surname. For me, at least. :o

What about Mercedes and Hoover?
Name first? Or brand?

[blacbird]

I think this is a case, however, where the name of the invention has taken over and outlived the name of the inventor.

Roy Jacuzzi is still alive, I believe.

caw