Prologues. Yeah, i kno, i kno..

[Darkness Rising]

Okay, I'm currently planning on my second novel as my first is rapidly coming to an end. Originally, as I've wrote down the scenes and chapters I did not have a prolouge, but then an idea came...

I plan on giving the second novel to wolves of publication and I thought... what if I could use this prolouge as a sells pitch. Now here me out! My prolouge fits into everything that a prolouge should be. It is a scene that will become important to the entire novel.

I also thought, that maybe if an agent requests some work, which will be the begining of the novel, it would be... impressive to him/her that the first scene is something that I hope will be very interesting and different (The idea for the prolouge scene blew me away when I thought of it). I thought it may be interesting enough to hook the agent/reader.

Do you think this will work, or is the prolouge too cliche and may turn off agents/publishers? I'm still in the planning stages, but the prolouge may change the course of the novel. Or should I just shut up and write? lol.

[Clair Dickson]

I've heard that agents asking for sample pages want the flavor the the novel, and that usually it's best to leave any prologue for when they request the partial/ full. The prologue isn't the same flavor as the novel, and may give the agent a false impression. It may aslo use up precious sample pages when you should be showing off the wonderful novel you've written.

[Mumut]

I don't use prologues at all. Too many people don't read them, I've found. So my second book in the series takes a couple of chapters to introduce all a person needs to know from the first book to enjoy the story on its own.

[willietheshakes]

People who don't read prologues - f*ck em. I'm not interested in writing a book for people who aren't actually going to read it. If I'm writing a prologue, it's there for a reason. Read it or don't, that's their decision. But if they don't, they're missing out. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna shape my work for people who care that little.

[Akuma]

People who don't read prologues - f*ck em. I'm not interested in writing a book for people who aren't actually going to read it. If I'm writing a prologue, it's there for a reason. Read it or don't, that's their decision. But if they don't, they're missing out. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna shape my work for people who care that little.

I usually compromise and skip the prologue. If I like what I see, I'll flip back to the prologue.

[Shweta]

Not sure I know about prolouges :) Shall I fix the typo?

ETA: ur typo, I fixt it.

[Madison]

Not sure I know about prolouges :) Shall I fix the typo?

yes please - it nearly drove me mad...

:)

[TPCSWR]

People who don't read prologues - f*ck em. I'm not interested in writing a book for people who aren't actually going to read it. If I'm writing a prologue, it's there for a reason. Read it or don't, that's their decision. But if they don't, they're missing out. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna shape my work for people who care that little.

My thinking exactly. Skip if you want... at your own risk.

[t0neg0d]

I always felt that prologues were 'Oooops! I forgot!' and that if the material was that important, the author would have found another way to work it into the book. This isn't to say that I don't read them, it's just reminds of a sneaky way to info-dump (again, not saying that they are always used in this fashion... just something about the separation that always bothered me is all).

I wouldn't think sending a prologue in a query wouldn't be such a good idea, but who knows? It could be the most brilliant thing ever written!

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Okay, I'm currently planning on my second novel as my first is rapidly coming to an end. Originally, as I've wrote down the scenes and chapters I did not have a prolouge, but then an idea came...

I plan on giving the second novel to wolves of publication and I thought... what if I could use this prolouge as a sells pitch. Now here me out! My prolouge fits into everything that a prolouge should be. It is a scene that will become important to the entire novel.

I also thought, that maybe if an agent requests some work, which will be the begining of the novel, it would be... impressive to him/her that the first scene is something that I hope will be very interesting and different (The idea for the prolouge scene blew me away when I thought of it). I thought it may be interesting enough to hook the agent/reader.

Do you think this will work, or is the prolouge too cliche and may turn off agents/publishers? I'm still in the planning stages, but the prolouge may change the course of the novel. Or should I just shut up and write? lol.


Personally, I think you should shut up and write. :)

Seriously, I've heard people mention this thing about the dangers of prologues/introductions, and I for one have mixed feelings about the whole thing. A prologue can be good for some stories, while a death knell for others. I think what matters is what is good for the story. In the case of my present novel WIP, I have just written an introduction with the belief that it will be good for the story. Whether that remains the case or no, really is up to the story itself.

As to your question concerning how to use your prologue when selling your work to an agent: I agree with some of the others who've already posted. Don't send the agent your prologue until after they've requested a partial or a full. What you need to sell is the story itself. If your prologue is in any way different from the story, it could throw the agent way off when s/he is considering the completed piece. So when it comes time to submit, I don't think you should send the prologue right away.

But like I said above, for the moment you just need to write it. :)

Best wishes to you, and happy writing. :)

[Paichka]

I love prologues. It's like a hint of what's to come.

That being said, I think my favorite prologue in the world is the one in Furies of Calderon by Jim Butcher. The prologue is all portentious, this clandestine meeting between a boy and a girl, she's asking him to do something for her, something slightly naughty, and he agrees...

Turns out that all she wanted was for him to pick her a flower garland, of some flowers she's not supposed to wear until she's older. I laughed a little. It was like the anti-prologue.

My prologue could be skipped, I suppose -- it'd likely confuse the snot out of you later if you did though. So I might retitle it "chapter 1". Decisions, decisions.

[Prawn]

I wrote a great prologue for my novel Across the Green Line which I had to cut because it was too tangential to the main point of the story. If you can write a prologue that expresses the theme of your book, or introduces a main character, I say write one. If you are writing a prologue about something that happens somewhere else to someone other than the main character, I say leave it out.

I don't mean to be an asshole, but let me call your attention to some grammatical errors here in your post.


Prolouges Prologues . Yeah, i know, i know...


Okay, I'm currently planning on my second novel as my first is rapidly coming to an end. Originally, as I've wrote written down the scenes and chapters I did not have a prolouge prologue, but then an idea came...

I plan on giving throwing the second novel to the wolves of publication and I thought... what if I could use this prolouge prologue as a sells sales pitch. Now here hear me out! My prolouge prologue fits into everything that a prolouge prologue should be. It is a scene that will become important to the entire novel.

I also thought, that maybe if an agent requests some work, which will be the begining beginning of the novel, it would be... impressive to him/her that the first scene is something that I hope will be very interesting and different (The idea for the prolouge scene blew me away when I thought of it). I thought it may might be interesting enough to hook the agent/reader.

Do you think this will work, or is the prolouge prologue too cliche and may turn off agents/publishers? I'm still in the planning stages, but the prolouge prologue may change the course of the novel. Or should I just shut up and write? lol.

I am not pointing these mistakes just out to be a jerk. I make lots of mistakes when I write, as most people do, but I have to fix them in the editing stage. If this post is any indication of the state of your novel, I'd be more worried about polishing book one than about planning the prologue for book two. Polish away, or perhaps get a Beta reader with some editing skill.

Good luck!

Prawn

[JJ Cooper]

Posting on a forum and ones writing for a book can be different styles, voice, attention to detail, grammar etc. The OP wasn't asking for a critique of their post.

JJ

ETA - I don't see any value in a prologue.

[Prawn]

Posting on a forum and ones writing for a book can be different styles, voice, attention to detail, grammar etc. The OP wasn't asking for a critique of their post.

I replied to the OP's question. I know s/he wasn't asking for a critique and I wasn't trying to be a jerk, but a post on an writers' website is bound to be read by writers who will pay attention to the writing in the post. If this post is representative of the author's writing in a 100,000 word novel, s/he needs to plan on some serious editing, and I see nothing wrong with pointing that out.

[JJ Cooper]

You're making an assumption based on a few paragraphs of a forum post and comparing that against a 100,000 word novel. It's like pointing out to all of those who do not capatalise in their posts that they should for their novels?

JJ

[Prawn]

You're making an assumption based on a few paragraphs of a forum post and comparing that against a 100,000 word novel.

I actually said, "If this post is any indication of the state of your novel..." so I didn't assume this post was representative of the poster's writing as a whole. I said if this writing is representative, then the author needs to set aside some time for editing.

It's like pointing out to all of those who do not capatalise in their posts that they should for their novels?

If a poster doesn't capitalize, I wouldn't mention it. A lack of capitalization in a post could be an error, or it could be a stylistic choice. If s/he doesn't capitalize AND has a dozen other errors, I might point it out.

[Reilly616]

Personally. My writing in a forum is no representation of my writing in my novel. Just like texting, forums are a means of communication (though more formal). Im not going to worry about a few typos, as long as the communication can be understood.

[willietheshakes]

If you are writing a prologue about something that happens somewhere else to someone other than the main character, I say leave it out.


Heh.

Respectfully disagree. But maybe that's just my WIP talking.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

Personally. My writing in a forum is no representation of my writing in my novel. Just like texting, forums are a means of communication (though more formal). Im not going to worry about a few typos, as long as the communication can be understood.


And here I am, obsessively editing my posts, even if they're a week old. Oh well.

I don't see why there's all this angst about prologues. Write the damn thing out, put it aside, and when you go back for revisions, then's the time to decide if it's for keeps.

[Susan Breen]

I've always liked prologues because I feel as though the writer is trying to tantalize me into reading the story. Right now I'm reading In the Woods, which has a great prologue. However, I wouldn't send a prologue off to an agent because a lot of them do have a thing about them. Perhaps you could just label it chapter one.

[maestrowork]

Much like anything else in writing, do anything you want; just make it really good.

[Willowmound]

And here I am, obsessively editing my posts, even if they're a week old. Oh well.

Good for you. Everything I write is a representation of me as a writer. This is my craft. I don't do sloppy.

[Feathers]

I blogged about prologues here (http://headdeskforwriters.blogspot.com/search/label/prologues). You may find it helpful. I think if you possibly can, you should get rid of your prologue.
If you can't cut it, can't weave it into the rest of your narrative, can't rewrite it as a scene that's part of the real-time action of your story, and can't start your story later to avoid the prologue....then go ahead and keep it. Just make sure it is crucial to the story or really, really, really good writing. Otherwise it has not value to anyone but you.

I actually said, "If this post is any indication of the state of your novel..." so I didn't assume this post was representative of the poster's writing as a whole. I said if this writing is representative, then the author needs to set aside some time for editing.

Personally I think that all writer's should watch their language online. If things ever got serious, you wouldn't want someone seeing all your typos and bad grammar and changing their mind about you. But that's each person's prerogative.

-Feathers

[Wolvel]

In my first novel I used a prologue, but it was planned. I used it to seperate a whole different segment of the book.

Now my other books don't use them.

A prologue is a tool to me, to be used as the writer sees fit.

[willietheshakes]

Personally I think that all writer's should watch their language online.

cough*irony*cough

[Reilly616]

LOL

[t0neg0d]

cough*irony*cough

Brewtol... I 4 1 woodn't worree so mutch abowt it. They're R alot of stuffs 2 bee consurned with wen posting on-line. You're grahmer, you're abillytee 2 convay you're thoats so other peepawl can reed it proporlee, not 2 menshun you're spelling. Its hard 2 tacke them all in 2 akownt... very stresfull in my ohpinyun.

Everyone misspells, types unintentional grammatical errors, posts hastily (etc, etc)... now and then. Some choose to represent themselves in every situation, others hope to find a measure of forgiveness in the people who pursue their same interests... seeking knowledge before a grammar lesson. Just food for thought!

Anyways, back to prologues! I believe the question was 'Should I use my prologue as a submission piece when querying agents?'. If I followed everyones answer properly, the consensus would be a resounding NO!

[Darkness Rising]

Lol.

Okay, I didn't expect this many replies. And yeah, sorry about all the grammatical errors. When I write I usually just write and don't think about the errors and just edit like hell later. (I do the same thing while writing a novel). It's just how I do things, I like cleaning things up. Sorry for not editing my posts. ;)

Thanks, the suggestions were great. Well it looks like I shouldn't write it. Well, I'll probably write it as chapter 1. Thanks again for all the helpful replies! At least, now I know to be careful with my spelling when I start threads. haha.

[lilacstarflower]

You know, I was really pleased with my prologue and now I'm wondering if it should stay in...urgh

[Liosse de Velishaf]

This is an ancient debate... full of silliness. Ignore it and write.

[Paichka]

This is the conclusion I've come to, after some thought.

My prologue is not vitally important to understanding the rest of the book, but it references two events (the arrival of an MC and the murder of a minor char) that should someone skip the prologue they'd probably be very confused when those events are later referenced.

So, my prologue should PROBABLY be chapter 1. I think what I'm going to do though is ask my agent/editor that question (when I have obtained such an animal, of course). :)

[Bayley]

The simplest advice to write a prologue and then once you've finished writing the book go back and see whether it's needed and whether it adds anything to your story.

[t0neg0d]

No offense intended here. But, did you all read the original post? O.o

The OP isn't asking if writing a prologue is needed/unneeded. The OP is asking if it should be used as the 'sales pitch' in a query.

[Bayley]

Yes, but that question was already answered and I didn't see much need to repeat other people.

He also said:

Or should I just shut up and write?

I was merly suggesting that if he did write it, he would then be better equiped to tell whether it was needed. He said he originally didn't have one and as he was suggesting using it as a sales pitch, I though that was the whole reason for him having a prologue. And if it wasn't needed there would be no point using it as a sales pitch.

[t0neg0d]

Huh... maybe I didn't read the original post. Or maybe I read another I liked so much, I brought into this thread. He hasn't written a prologue??! Do that!

OH! I see it now... and it is confusing the hell out of me. I think they were saying that originally (when conceptualizing) they didn't have a prologue. But, I think they wrote one after all.

EDIT: Hey Coolaid!

[Reilly616]

I can never understand people skipping the prologue as if it is not a part of the story. It never (well, taking the norm) happens here. Is this a mainly American phenomenon?

[t0neg0d]

I can never understand people skipping the prologue as if it is not a part of the story. It never (well, taking the norm) happens here. Is this a mainly American phenomenon?

I don't know for sure, but seriously... the idea that it is "separated" from the book, gives off the impression that it was either an after thought, the story wasn't conceived well enough, or the written material wasn't worthy of actually being part of the book.

Before I get hunted down, it is only an impression. And apparently, one that many people tend to lean towards or they wouldn't be skipped over at all. You NEVER hear someone ask they question: Why do people skip over the second chapter of a book?

[Bayley]

Huh... maybe I didn't read the original post. Or maybe I read another I liked so much, I brought into this thread. He hasn't written a prologue??! Do that!

OH! I see it now... and it is confusing the hell out of me. I think they were saying that originally (when conceptualizing) they didn't have a prologue. But, I think they wrote one after all.



I think I get it now.

Okay, I'm currently planning on my second novel as my first is rapidly coming to an end. Originally, as I've wrote down the scenes and chapters I did not have a prolouge, but then an idea came...


I thought he was talking about his second novel, the one he is planning. I was suggesting that in planning he could put in a prologue and then at the end he could decide whether it was needed. From there he could decide whether to metion it to publishers, as there isn't much point using it as a sales pitch if it isn't needed.

But now I think he might be talking about his first novel, the one he is completing. Therefore he wrote the prologue and is wondering whether to include it as a sales pitch.

Sorry, I must have misread it. It is confusing.

[t0neg0d]

Sorry, I must have misread it. It is confusing.

Not just you! I am completely confused, now.

[Reilly616]

I don't know for sure, but seriously... the idea that it is "separated" from the book, gives off the impression that it was either an after thought, the story wasn't conceived well enough, or the written material wasn't worthy of actually being part of the book.

Before I get hunted down, it is only an impression. And apparently, one that many people tend to lean towards or they wouldn't be skipped over at all. You NEVER hear someone ask they question: Why do people skip over the second chapter of a book?

True. I've ALWAYS seen the prologue as the part of the story that happened before the main block. The epilogueis then what happens after the main block. I've never seen them as seperate from the story, so it stuck me as odd when people here say they are sometimes skipped.

[IdiotsRUs]

I'd say write the prologue - you can always cut it later if it doesn't work.

I've ALWAYS seen the prologue as the part of the story that happened before the main block. Me too

[Telstar]

A few random thoughts

3. I like prologues, if they are well done and gives useful information about the story being told.

2. I skip prologues when i'm checking a book in the shop. But I do read it if I'm reading a book.

3. Better to not send it to the querying agent.

4. Whether or not one should write a prologue, there is no definitive answer. Will the story benefit from it? Then write one. Otherwise there are several ways to incorporate that information.

[a_sharp]

Another derailed thread. Not about whether to include a prologue, guys, but whether the prologue belongs as a query hook or a partial.

To answer the original question, I would advise to eliminate the prologue from your query and from any response to a request for partial. Follow the agent's guideline, which is usually the first 50 pages or first one to three chapters, depending on the agent.

If at submission time you've written a prologue and decided to keep it, you should still include it only in a full, not a partial.

A lot can change before you actually finish the project and are ready to submit. Don't let your present imagination govern or influence how you write the book henceforth, including whether to include a prologue. So much can change during the course of that long road to completion that your considerations on the front end may bear little on what actually comes out after rewrites and edits.

[Seif]

do it and then re-do it!

[scheherazade]

Not sure about prologues in general. I do know that I hate the prologue-type structure (not necessarily labeled a prologue) that you often see in some genre thrillers and in biographical non-fiction. The kind of book that opens with 2-3 pages right in the midst of some crisis moment, but then you flip the page and suddenly you're back at "Jim Thompson was born in Oxford, Mississippi to a hardworking mother and a welder father who would often leave the family for months at a time." Apparently it's so important that the author feed you the boring fiber of the story, that he has to first sweeten your tastebuds with the juicy action you won't hope to re-encounter for hundreds of pages. If the first chapter is so uninteresting or uninformative that you need a prologue to lure the reader, then you should probably rewrite your story.

That said, I'm sure there is a way to use a prologue effectively. But off the top of my head, the only way I could think that starting with a prologue could be better than a well-written first chapter would be for satiric effect. That said, though, I'm not averse to starting a story with a brief intro and then flashing back or forward to the action (like a story within a story structure), so maybe it's just the necessity of calling it out with a prologue structure that I'm not convinced about. If you disagree, then prove us doubters wrong and write us a compelling prologue.