Importance of happy endings?

[BrianHoward]

I tried searching for a post on the topic, but didn't find one, so...

A few years back I actually finished my first first draft. There are three main characters. One is a jewel thief. One is the investigator trying to catch said thief. The other is a youngish (16-year-old) girl the thief takes advantage of to get access to some places he's not supposed to be. He also uses her as part of his final escape. (Nothing sexual about the taking advantage of her, just trickery...)

The thief gets away. I'm pleased with how he did it, and I think it works well. The investigator gets thwarted, but comes to respect the worthy adversary. The girl, on the other hand, mostly realizes how naive she is.

They each get reasonably similar page time. There are scenes that she sees that I think are important, and showing them from the thief's perspective gives away too much.

My wife strongly complained that the girl doesn't get a "happy" ending. She insisted that half the potential readers will get turned off by that. I ended up setting it aside, stuck on how to fix it.

What do you think? I turn now to the experts. :-)

(Oh, and Hi, by the way...)

[Shweta]

:welcome:
I'd suggest that your first step might be to find readers who aren't your wife (or mom or neighbour...) Get someone you don't know as a beta reader, see what they say.

It's not necessary (for all readers) to give everyone a happy ending, but it is necessary to give main characters some sort of resolution that makes it worth having followed them for 500 pages. It's possible your wife just likes happy endings -- but it's also possible that the girl's ending is in some other way unsatisfactory and she's expressing it as best she can.

[gypsyscarlett]

No disrespect to your wife, but she happens to be totally wrong in this case.

Some of the greatest books (and films) have endings where the good person doesn't get the happy ending they deserve.

Whether or not your work should have a happy, sad, or somewhere in between ending- all depends. There are some books you read that feel that they could go either way. On the otherhand, some works really need the sad ending because a happy ending would feel forced and fake (you know those Happy Hollywood Endings).

Take a close look at your work. Would it work with a happy ending? Can you give the girl at least some hope? A middle ground? If not- don't change it. Do what feels true.

[MrWrite]

Hi Brian welcome to AW!

Gotta agree with the other two. Plenty of great tales don't have happy endings. Did Old Yeller, Thelma and Louise or Brokeback Mountain? Plenty of other examples I'm sure can't think of any right now lol.
Maybe as Shweta suggested there's something unsatisfactory about the ending in general. Did you wrap up everything? Are there any loose ends left untied? Without seeing the ending it's hard to know for sure.
You could post your work in the Show Your Own Work section of this site. You'll get plenty of excellent feedback there.
Anyway welcome to the forum. I know you're going to love it here!:D

[Nakhlasmoke]

Depend who you're writing for. Some genres expect, nay DEMAND, a happy ending, but otherwise as long as the ending is satisfying for the reader (not necessarily for the character) then you're okay.

[Bayley]

Unless your writing romance (which your not), you don't need a happy ending. Some readers love happy endings and feel cheated if they do not get one. However, that does not mean you should do a happy endings. Some books need to have a certain ending and other endings would not fit right with the book.

I would write out a couple of different versions of the ending, where the girl gets a happy ending and where she does not. Then, give both endings to your beta readers and ask which one fits the book best.

PS Forgot to say :welcome:

[Use Her Name]

I think any ending in which a girl in her situation gets away with her life, or without having been raped, would be considered happy. The ending seemed happy enough for the criminal who could have ended up in prison, and the sheriff, who at least did not have a dead girl on his hand. When I think of a happy ending, it is one in which the character goes through the "trial by fire" to have grown, or to know a little more about themselves, or the world around them. At the end of a novel, life rarely goes back to "normal" so that ending is out. You also have to chose an appropriate ending for the type story it is. It seems to me this was a good choice.

[IdiotsRUs]

as long as the ending is satisfying for the reader

That's the key I think. It has to...resonate, emotionally, with the reader.

Think Gone with the Wind, and Scarlett saying tomorrow is another day. It isn't happy, but it fits with the rest of the book.

A good ending is one where the reader says 'that was the only way that could have ended' and they can't see it any other way. IMO.

[BenPanced]

I have to agree that you need to look at the tone of your work. There's this automatic reaction where they need the characters riding off into the sunset, happily ever after, with all ends neatly tied up with blue ribbon, when they've been through an awful ordeal. I like the suggestion of trying out two different endings; even if it's well written, the standard "happy ending" might feel shoehorned in for the sake of having it.

[sheadakota]

:welcome:
If a happy ending doesn't fit with the rest of your book, then NO, don't put it in- personally I detest happy endings- they seem packaged and trite (unless that is where the ending was heading from the begining-like in romances) So I agree with the rest of the posters and respectfully strongly disagree with your wife- get a beta reader who is not related to you to give you an unbiased opinon-

[t0neg0d]

I tried searching for a post on the topic, but didn't find one, so...

A few years back I actually finished my first first draft. There are three main characters. One is a jewel thief. One is the investigator trying to catch said thief. The other is a youngish (16-year-old) girl the thief takes advantage of to get access to some places he's not supposed to be. He also uses her as part of his final escape. (Nothing sexual about the taking advantage of her, just trickery...)

The thief gets away. I'm pleased with how he did it, and I think it works well. The investigator gets thwarted, but comes to respect the worthy adversary. The girl, on the other hand, mostly realizes how naive she is.

They each get reasonably similar page time. There are scenes that she sees that I think are important, and showing them from the thief's perspective gives away too much.

My wife strongly complained that the girl doesn't get a "happy" ending. She insisted that half the potential readers will get turned off by that. I ended up setting it aside, stuck on how to fix it.

What do you think? I turn now to the experts. :-)

(Oh, and Hi, by the way...)

IMO, the ending should go as follows:

The Girl gets the jewels
The Thief figures it out he has been had
The Investigator... well... I don't care for that character, so he gets nothing. And I take his twinkie... and don't invite him over to see my Star Wars action figures either.

Happy endings are for happy people, the rest of us just want to avoid the stomach flu at all costs.

EDIT: I'm a sod >.< What I meant to say was WELCOME!

[maestrowork]

A happy ending is not a must.

Without a satisfying ending you're a bust.


There's a difference.

[t0neg0d]

A happy ending is not a must.

Without a satisfying ending you're a bust.


There's a difference.

Am I reading your post count correctly? O.o

Couple more years and you'll have another book!! Um... from the posts... ugh... I hate the web. Everything is lost in translation. >.<

[Takvah]

KILL EVERYBODY! *nods sagely* It seems to work for George R. R. Martin! Talk about a guy that couldn't write a happy ending if you held a gun to his head.

I think you've gotten great advice, life isn't all happy endings and I think that fiction in it's mimicry of "reality" should reflect that fact. If you're happy with the way it ends then I think you should stick with it. Amateurs might assume that a happy ending is needed... but there are plenty of us (morose slobs) out there in the big world, that will understand that the girl learned a life lesson and in that... she garnered some benefit.

[Don Allen]

This is starting to piss me off, two days in a row I have to agree with the maestro.

Actually I had this conversation in reverse with a gentleman wishing to adapt my novel to a screenplay and our conversation centered around not so much a "happy ending" as much as an ending that gives resolution to the story. In my case, because my work is heavily based on a true story, I opted for the real ending which had no resolution because for all practical puposes the bad guy got away. He insisted that I rethink the ending for the audience, because readers want that satisfaction as Ray pointed out. So don't worry about "Happy" but definitly be resolute in conclusion or you may end up with that dreaded label.. "Great 3/4 story, too bad he/she couldn't finish it".

[t0neg0d]

This is starting to piss me off, two days in a row I have to agree with the maestro.

Actually I had this conversation in reverse with a gentleman wishing to adapt my novel to a screenplay and our conversation centered around not so much a "happy ending" as much as an ending that gives resolution to the story. In my case, because my work is heavily based on a true story, I opted for the real ending which had no resolution because for all practical puposes the bad guy got away. He insisted that I rethink the ending for the audience, because readers want that satisfaction as Ray pointed out. So don't worry about "Happy" but definitly be resolute in conclusion or you may end up with that dreaded label.. "Great 3/4 story, too bad he/she couldn't finish it".

Unless, it's an awesome and dreaded (dare I say it?) cliffhanger!

[Don Allen]

However, T... That in itself is a resolution, in story telling, if you catch my drift. Leave them wanting more...

[maestrowork]

So don't worry about "Happy" but definitly be resolute in conclusion or you may end up with that dreaded label.. "Great 3/4 story, too bad he/she couldn't finish it".

That reminds me of No Country for Old Men. Many people considered it a great movie up the ending, and then it was like WTF? Some people loved the ending, by the way -- it's literary, thought-provoking, etc. but for most people who happened to love the film otherwise, the inconclusive and cryptic ending was a major letdown.

[Makai_Lightning]

Hey, welcome to AW.

If everyone in the world demanded happy endings all the time, I'm pretty screwed, and I'm an oddball. I love my tragic and bittersweet endings. Tragedy often doesn't end with roses and chocolate, unless the roses are dead and the chocolate is rotton. Comady usually does end well, but if it didn't then it probably wouldn't hit the audience right. The kind of ending you need depends on the story you're writing, but from that description, it doesn't scream "Happy Ending Required" to me. I think the ending you picked was realistic, and ending on that particular low note can show character growth.

If there's something wrong with your ending, it's not because it's happy or sad, unless the tone doesn't match the way it should. When I read something, I'll hate it when my favorite characters die, but I'll love the book, and sometimes if the characters had lived it would have been cheaper. Forcing good things to happen where they don't fit doesn't sit well, and readers can tell if it's too forced. If you decided you're set on making a happy ending, you'd have to go back through the rest of your story to make sure you have an avaliable set up for it. From your description, it doesn't sound like it would match, but we don't have your whole story. It might be possible that while you were writing, it seemed set up to end in a happy ending for your character and it flipped without as much warning as was necessary too.

I'd suggest finding a few more reactions to the ending from other betas, and see if they match. More than "there was no happy ending," you might want to ask why it didn't seem right further than that, or just take a look at it again yourself and see if you didn't add in foreshadowing in that said she would get a good ending or something to that effect. Not really sure if you even have a problem, but that's something that might throw people.

Sounds good to me though. Hope you enjoy AW. ^.^

[Hobbes]

Things certainly didn't turn out well for Hamlet (or most Shakespearean characters for that matter) but the ending was the right one. As long as the reader is nodding at the end and not rolling their eyes and saying, "Puh-lease!" you've done your job well.

[maestrowork]

Imagine Romeo and Juliet survived, went off to the sunset, and lived happily ever after.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Personally, I'm an oddball. I like happy endings. I hate any book where the characters I care about die. Romeo and Juliet was an exception because they were both annoying twits and got what they deserved. :tongue

Anyway, sounds to me like you have 2/3rds of a happy ending. The thief was happy. The investigator, though twarted, learned to respect the theif.

Only the girl has what might be considered an unhappy ending, but in reality, it's a good ending because she has learned she is naive, a trait she needs to work on.

[dwellerofthedeep]

I'd write the ending just to be true to the story. Engineering an ending to sell seems a little silly to me because you'd be giving up your integrity for a chance, only a chance mind you, at some money.

There were two endings for Great Expectations, including the commercialized 'happy ending'. The story works with either of them, but looking back at it, I'd say that it depends what you want out of the story.

There is some truth in happy ending attraction, I think. I prefer a happy ending, but, sometimes it just isn't right.

The Movie Jumper was like that.

The Departed was the opposite, in my opinion. It couldn't have had an ending with the least bit of happiness in it, or so it seemed the writer thought.

My disparate point is this: Do what is right for this story.

[ORION]

Keep all possibilities in mind. When my book went to auction the various editors had different ideas on the best ending. As an exercise I wrote three different endings and thought long and hard about what would be closest to my (and my putnam editor's) vision.
They must be satisfying and they must affect the reader in some way. Otherwise keep yourself open.

[Clarec]

I'm a complete sucker for a happy ending but the thing is, as long as there is resolution, I'm satisfied. I HATE it when things are left open ended. So even if your teen doesn't get her traditionally happy ending, I think most readers will be satisfied as long as the story is neatly tied up.

You say the teen is taken advantage of so clearly she has learned a valuable lesson. As long as she's alive and uninjured, it's not really an unhappy ending. And it sounds like it fits the story as the thief gets away.

Do what YOU think is right, no offensive to your wife. It's your story and you know how it should end.

Clare

[scheherazade]

It sort of depends on the genre of the work, too. Readers of literary novels are often disappointed with happy endings, and they tend to depend endings that are full of complex emotion - neither happy nor sad. With popular/genre novels, readers are more accepting of happy endings, and with some genres (romance, for example) it's almost expected. But it really depends on the piece. A story can be inspiring or uplifting or satisfying without a happy ending. A death, divorce, or destruction can be satisfying if it fits. But sometimes, especially if we're talking about someone accomplishing a goal, the reader wants a happier ending. In your case, it's easier to give your female lead a not-so-happy ending if it's coupled with goal achievement (thwarting the jewel thief) than if not.

Maybe just expand your focus group? Get others to read it and ask them specifically whether they think she needs a happier ending. Don't let one reader derail your story, but if the majority of your readers are saying the same thing, then it may be worth considering. But in the end, just do what feels right to you.

[Straka]

The endings I tend to remember the most, are the unhappy ones. Generally they made me think the most about the work. They are also the ones that made me want to be a writer because I was so ticked that it ended that way.

[Phaeal]

The girl's "ending" may be happy or sad, but it must not be boring. It appears that she's played a big enough part in the novel to have an arc of her own, some kind of movement from Point A through points B, C, D, etc., to the ultimate point Z. If she doesn't change at all in the course of her travails, doesn't grow (or shrink), doesn't at least learn something, then she's going to come across as an unsatisfying character.

[Melenka]

Resolution is more important than a happy ending. Not everything ends well, and not everything should. Sometimes, getting out alive and learning a little something is as close as it comes to happy. No reason to pretty that up.

I once read a book that I thought was fairly good - right up to the point where the male MC shows up for no reason to express his love for the female MC who had been, up to the smarmy ending, a fully realized person. That last chapter stole her agency by implying that she could only be happy if this guy loves her back. I threw the book across the room.

But that could just be me....

[Robert T. Knight]

I'd have to agree with the overall sentiment of the posts: happy endings are not a must. What's most important is that the ending makes sense, happy or not.

As a reader it's much more dissatisfying to have a writer force the happy ending - instead of the expected "oh, how nice" feeling, it turns to more of a bitter taste because it just didn't fit, no matter how much I liked the character.

[willietheshakes]

Happy endings are for massage parlours.

[sunandshadow]

I personally love happy endings, especially for viewpoint characters that the reader has come to sympathize with.

Here's a thought - if the girl becomes less naive, why not show her having some other little problem in her life that she solves at the end by not being naive any more? Perhaps her boyfriend didn't really care about her and was using her for her family connections or something, and she tells him to take a hike and refines her idea of what qualities a good man has. Or more humorously, parhaps she has an annoying brother who is always sneaking into her room and reading her diary, and thanks to the thief she learns how to protect her own stuff from thieves.

[Barb D]

Lots of Connie Willis' books don't have happy endings. And I have to say some of them aren't even satisfying. (Lincoln's Dreams comes to mind.) But I still love her writing.

[ynoirb]

I enjoy a non-traditional ending - as long as there is closure for me as a reader/movie watcher then I am content :)

[Bluestone]

You've got enough two cents from many thoughtful people, but I'll just add my own to the chorus because I think it's an interesting question.

Personally, I'm a sucker for happy endings. At the end of ambiguous movies I've been known to make up my own happily ever after, just to feel satisfied. But I'm a demanding reader and if I feel an ending is too neatly tied up with its happy little bow, it might negate the rest of the satisfaction in the book to that point. And conversely, two recent books I read: Suite Francaise (Irene Nemirovsky) and Five Skies (Ron Carlson), both of which I enjoyed enormously (enjoyed might be the wrong word for the first one since it was the Holocaust, but I appreciated it so much) and neither of these could be said to have happy endings. They did, however, resonate as authentic endings. And there was sufficient lightness and happy parts to lift the spirits and depth and good writing to carry the rest.

Of course it does depend on the genre and the tone of the book, but could your wife have been dissatisfied with the ending because all the male characters were more fleshed out than the female and she felt short changed? Would it work to make her a more multi-dimensional character or give her perhaps...I don't know...more character?

And :welcome::welcome::welcome:

[MsK]

I have to agree with many of the previous posts. The ending doesn't have to be happy but it does have to be satisfying.
And I'll take a less than happy ending over a forced or completely expected happy ending any day.

[Ralph Pines]

You know I debated giving my novel a happy ending, and then I thought that it had to have one because that was where the story was leading. Without one it would not really end.

[blacbird]

Juliet marries Romeo, and the Montagues and Capulets throw a wedding reception for the ages.

Quasimodo saves Esmerelda, and the authorities are so impressed with his dauntless courage that they give him an annuity for live so he can continue ringing his bell.

Zenobia Frome decides that Ethan is right, they should not be married, and lets him go with Mattie. They ride a sled down the hill, and it's exhilarating and wonderful.

Lord Jim's fight against the bandits results in the death of the chieftain's son, but the chieftain decides it was all worth it, and showers Jim with honor and accolades, and allows Jim to marry his daughter, with a big reception feast afterwards.

Oedipus kills his father and marries his mother, but hey, it's okay, because, it was, like, a mistake, okay? And they live happily ever after.

Captain Ahab finally kills that damn whale, and sails back to Salem with all that oil, and gets rich and settles down.

I just love happy endings, don't you?

caw

[WordlyVision]

If your book signs off with an ending that's not "justified" by the events that precede it -- regardless if it's happy, sad, or implicit/undefined -- then you do yourself and your reader no justice.

It has been said time and time again that some of the "greatest" and "great" works of fiction don't have a happy ending -- in fact -- some may not even have a defined ending at all. One of my favorite examples to use in this is Lord of the Flies by William Golding:

(spoilers following)
It may be said that the ending is happy, and then again, very skeptical and bleak in the same way; yes, the children get rescued, but the image of the navy officer looking at the "trim cruiser in the distance" suggests that they won't be heading to an all happy ending right away - if at all (end spoilers).

In the end, you have to decide what happens, and if one ending doesn't work, the "rewrite" is always the writer's greatest tool.

Determine the tone of your novel, and use it to your advantage; you can either go along with it and reinforce it, or if you have several that are present throughout the story, choose one that logically and smoothly fits in with the events leading up to the ending and transition to it from there. Also, you may want to twist things for suspense if it works for you: You can give the reader the impression that everything's going to be alright, slip in an underlying foreboding, and then when they least expect it -- turn the tables. This is of course, hard to do, but if done well (not "right"), it can be the completing piece for that stellar ending.

It's all up to you.

[Faolmor]

I like endings that don't end.

I know. Try telling that to an agent.

There needs to be resolution where the main plot is concerned, and a definite end to the reason behind the story...but I also like to think that the world goes on beyond the story.

Whether that resolution is happy or not is irrelevant to me. I like realistic endings.

[Chameleon]

I prefer endings that are complicated, yet resolved.

I don't expect happy endings. Maybe only in chicklit, though.

[Nakhlasmoke]

How about endings that are happyish, but the happiness is tainted by what the mc had to go through to get what he/she wanted?

[James D. Macdonald]

Endings can be happy or sad ... what they can't be is arbitrary.

[Ralph Pines]

Endings can be happy or sad ... what they can't be is arbitrary.


Exactly!

[Bufty]

What qualifies her to say that?

...She insisted that half the potential readers will get turned off by that.

[CaroGirl]

So, if "half the readers will get turned off" by a happy ending, does that logically mean that the other half of readers would get turned on by a happy ending (i.e. turned off by a sad ending)? Seems like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, if you take that approach. With a happy ending, is the glass half full or half empty?

The ending should suit story, happy, sad, or otherwise.

[rainboy]

Endings can be happy or sad ... what they can't be is arbitrary.

What about a movie like Braveheart. Is that a happy or sad ending or both?

[SPOILERS]

I mean... the main character William Wallace dies at the end, but in the final shot you see the Scots charge the English and win their freedom. So even though the main character dies, his goal is achieved and the bad guys* get what they deserve. At the end of the movie I was sad that William Wallace died, but I was also happy that the Scots won their freedom.

*English people might disagree ;)

[CaroGirl]

What about a movie like Braveheart. Is that a happy or sad ending or both?

[SPOILERS]

I mean... the main character William Wallace dies at the end, but in the final shot you see the Scots charge the English and win their freedom. So even though the main character dies, his goal is achieved and the bad guys* get what they deserve. At the end of the movie I was sad that William Wallace died, but I was also happy that the Scots won their freedom.

*English people might disagree ;)
That's an ambiguous ending. Arbitrary is different:

3 a: based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something <an arbitrary standard> <take any arbitrary positive number> <arbitrary division of historical studies into watertight compartments — A. J. Toynbee> b: existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will <when a task is not seen in a meaningful context it is experienced as being arbitrary — Nehemiah Jordan>

Ambiguous:
2: capable of being understood in two or more possible senses or ways <an ambiguous smile> <an ambiguous term> <a deliberately ambiguous reply>

[RJK]

A 16-year-old girl can convince herself of most anything. Have her write a paragraph in her journal that she expects the Jewel thief to return (on his white horse) and take her away. Now she's happy.

[rainboy]

That's an ambiguous ending. Arbitrary is different:

3 a: based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something <an arbitrary standard> <take any arbitrary positive number> <arbitrary division of historical studies into watertight compartments — A. J. Toynbee> b: existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will <when a task is not seen in a meaningful context it is experienced as being arbitrary — Nehemiah Jordan>

Ambiguous:
2: capable of being understood in two or more possible senses or ways <an ambiguous smile> <an ambiguous term> <a deliberately ambiguous reply>

I know what arbitrary means. James wrote "Endings can be happy or sad" so I was just asking if an ending can't be "happy and sad", but yea, I guess that's what you call ambiguous :) I think the ending on my WIP is an ambiguous one... protagonist dies but triumphs anyway.

[Pachydermia]

I actually like your ending for the girl- I think she's too young to have a completely wrapped- up, happy ending. I like that she comes to a realization about her own limitations, because the readers can then imagine that she grows to be a better person because of it. (and this is coming from a 17 year old girl, not someone who can look back at their teen days from a distance.)
maybe you just need to give her better closure, but not necessarily a happy ending.

Weatherly

[Elodie-Caroline]

Without reading anyone else's replies... The girl is still alive and she has learned a valuable lesson in life, so that's not exactly an unhappy ending, is it :)

If it were a love story, I'd want a happy ending though. I remember watching the film 'Gone with the wind' for the first time and not being able to sleep because poor old Scarlett was left on her own :cry:I could never write a novel where my lovers didn't live HEA


Elodie

[Jill]

I think what the reader wants is a 'satisfactory' ending which may or may not be happy.

[Bluestone]

I've already expressed my thoughts on endings a few posts back, but I just had to say I cannot believe, cannot believe how The Appeal ended. I'm not going to spoil it for anyone who wants to read it, but I kept going until the very last sentance thinking: it's coming, it's coming...and it never happened. Grrr. I was ready to throw the book across the room, and I don't do that sort of thing.

I don't think I'll ever be tempted to buy another Grisham book again. So, happy or sad is not the issue - satisfying is the key word for me, without a doubt.