Using * within your chapters...

[jennifer75]

When is one used, and what exactly is it telling us - if not a new chapter?

[DeleyanLee]

I haven't a clue--but I'm interested in the answer. I can't say that I've ever used one in my writing.

[dempsey]

... what?

I need a context. I'm automatically thinking footnotes and the like, so I'm not sure what you're talking about, specifically.

[Shadow_Ferret]

An asterisk? In fiction? I haven't a clue. In non-fiction it's for footnotes. Although if you use a lot, then you'd use superscript numerals.

Or do you mean like this?

***

Between paragraphs? Then it's tell you that's a minor break. It's not big enough to be worthy of a new chapter break, its a small one. Like a coffee break.

[jennifer75]

... what?

I need a context. I'm automatically thinking footnotes and the like, so I'm not sure what you're talking about, specifically.


Chapter 1

jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that and this again.

jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that and this again.

jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that and this again.


*

jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that and this again.

jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that and this again.

jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that jibber jabber jibber jabber this that this that and this again.

Chapter 2

repeat.



It almost looks like it indicates a new scene within that chapter.

[Marko Kloos]

Scene breaks are usually denoted with #. (At least that's what I was taught.)

[Shadow_Ferret]

I've never seen just one. Usually it's 3. Like *** or ###.

[jennifer75]

Scene breaks are usually denoted with #. (At least that's what I was taught.)


Is this something we'd see only in a script?

[jennifer75]

I've never seen just one. Usually it's 3. Like *** or ###.

Ok, so what do they mean? Any idea?

[Shadow_Ferret]

I just found this in a publisher's guidelines:

SCENE BREAKS: Center three asterisks (* * *) below the last sentence in the scene. Skip one line and start the next scene flush-left with the first word in ALL CAPS.

Although I don't follow the ALL CAPS rules for the next line, I just start it as I do any other paragraph.

[Ziljon]

From Cathy C's formatting Manuscripts for submission sticky:

Scene Breaks (same as line breaks, but sometimes named differently)
Definition: When moving forward in time, to a different location, or to a different person’s perspective in fiction WITHOUT ending the chapter, an scene break is called for.
Use in industry: One of the most confusing issues in writing, a "scene break" is also considered a line break or POV switch. An author should either use an extra double space (the ONLY time when this is acceptable) or a single or double hash mark ("#", found above the number 3 on the keyboard), against the left margin to indicate a line break.


Here's the whole page (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26126).:)

[Ms Hollands]

Is this not something that gets added in during editing, depending on whether the publisher uses asterisks or not? I don't really know, but it seems loigical to me that way. :Shrug:

[veinglory]

Looks like a scene break to me. The hash mark (#) is standard for that but pretty much any character used that way would have the same effect.

[chronomodra]

They indicate a scene break.

Deciding whether to use a scene break or a chapter break is the author's personal decision. In general, though, a scene break is used when the author wants to either show a passage of time or a change in viewpoint, but wants to continue on the same 'subject' as the rest of the chapter.

[Gillhoughly]

:editor's hat on:

Use # for a break within a chapter.
Center it if possible.
You can use # # # to make it clear it's not a typo.
I won't mind. Really, I won't.

Use * for footnotes. My program puts them in automatically when I need a footnote, but it can put in numbers, too.

Do *not* use *s for **emphasis** or I will think you're spending too much time blogging or texting or whatever it is this week.

That's why we have underlining and italics.

# # #


*Good luck.*

[dempsey]

Oh. I see.

I use a single hash mark (#). As stated previously, denotes a scene break.

Think of Star Wars: A New Hope. You know how they would do a wipe to clear from, say, Tattooine to an Imperial meeting? If that were a novel, between those two bits, you'd see a # mark.

[jennifer75]

OK, how about using scene breaks in a chapter-less piece? A short, for instance, with no chapters. Can scene breaks work to clearly show scenes when a piece is too short for chapters.

[ClaudiaGray]

I use ** for scene breaks. I had never heard the hash-mark thing before -- I don't doubt that it's standard, but thus far nobody's complained about the **.

[vixey]

OK, how about using scene breaks in a chapter-less piece? A short, for instance, with no chapters. Can scene breaks work to clearly show scenes when a piece is too short for chapters.

For me it's more about a POV switch. If you're doing that in a chapterless piece, it makes sense. Same with a scene switch. In some books this is shown by a gap in the narrative.

Thanks for clarification about the *** versus the ###, Gillhoughly. I've been using ***.

[Danthia]

Just an aside here, but the marks are only used in the MS format. Once the book is printed the marks go away and a line is skipped, so there's a visual break between scenes.

There are many ways to break scenes in a MS, so don't sweat it. I used *** for mine and neither my agent nor my editor commented or rejected me for it :) As long as it's clear that you're jumping ahead to a new scene within a chapter, or a new scene if you have no chapters, you're fine.

[aspiringwriter]

I've always used *** for scene breaks in the stories that i've written. Plus i've never used anything like this for a screenplay. Hope this helps.

[Cato]

I've seen * * * done, never heard of # # #. I prefer using the extra double space.

[Jersey Chick]

I use *** for scene breaks. I've seen and heard of ###, but I think it's ugly. ;)

No one's complained to me about it, but maybe they've bitched behind my back...

:D

[jennifer75]

I used *** for mine and neither my agent nor my editor commented or rejected me for it :) As long as it's clear that you're jumping ahead to a new scene within a chapter, or a new scene if you have no chapters, you're fine.

That's the ticket, right there. Thanks!!!

[jennifer75]

I found this while googling the ***

Pretty informative...

http://www.longridgewritersgroup.com/rx/tr02/the_chapter_5_5_06.shtml

[Prawn]

My first instinct was to ask, "Who the f**k hasn't figured out how to use an asterisk?"

But that would just be rude. :)

Now that I understand the question, let me add that they are also used for a POV shift, whether the scene is changing or not.

[FennelGiraffe]

Just an aside here, but the marks are only used in the MS format. Once the book is printed the marks go away and a line is skipped, so there's a visual break between scenes.

Yes, unless the scene break happens to fall at the bottom of a page. Then the marks are left in, although usually changed to decorative dingbats. And then there will be three of them, centered.

[ChaosTitan]

I've always used a single # to indicate a scene break. So far, no one has complained. :)

[Gillhoughly]

I think you guys are obsessing a bit here. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

I think the # # # are ugly, too, but they are standard.

If you hate them, then use * * * , but before sending off the MS do a global search and replace them with # # #. Your agent won't mind.

Use them to denote ANY break, even in a book with no chapters.

Your editor and the copyeditor need a visual cue to know that there IS a break. They're not asking for it just to be annoying. They have to be clear on your intent with the narrative.

Skipping a space and leaving it blank isn't enough, as it could be a typo or formating error.

It is also handy if a break occurs at the bottom of a page. Without # # # to mark a break, and a new scene starting on the next page, I might think you forgot to include a proper segue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segue).

If you check a book, you'll find they have simple blank spaces. That's because the copyeditor put in marks for the typesetter to take out the # # #s.

However, if there is a scene break at the bottom of a page, you'll find some kind of symbol to indicate to a reader there is a break.

Right, obsessing recess is over, everyone back to writing!

[cara k]

I also use *** for my scene breaks. One thing I'd advise, however, is to use something, as opposed to skipping a line. I found out the hard way that the skipped line is not noticeable if it occurs at the beginning or end of a page. And then the scene break is overlooked, which leads to obvious confusion.

[jennifer75]

Just an aside here, but the marks are only used in the MS format. Once the book is printed the marks go away and a line is skipped, so there's a visual break between scenes.



I was reading a book today with visible *** 's in it. Is it just a publishers preference maybe, to skip or leave in?

[Blondchen]

I was reading a book today with visible *** 's in it. Is it just a publishers preference maybe, to skip or leave in?

Good point. Does anyone have any publishing experience with this? Do they ask the author's preference? Personally when I use a centered # to denote a break, I visualize some sort of artistic swoosh delineating my breaks in the printed version.

[Prawn]

Does using anything other than a *** or a ### look unprofessional to an agent or publisher? What about something like §§§§§§§§§§§§?

[Jimmyboy1]

The asterisk is used when writing a story about home run records.

[James D. Macdonald]

Although I don't follow the ALL CAPS rules for the next line, I just start it as I do any other paragraph.

That's just one publisher. I think it means that they take the author's submitted text and go straight to production with it, without additional editorial input. (Their guidelines also call for manuscripts to be single-spaced, Times New Roman, fully justified.)

Don't flush-left or put the first word of the next paragraph in ALL CAPS unless you're submitting to that particular publisher.

To the question at hand: A hash-mark (#) centered is standard for showing a line break, but anything will do, provided you're consistent. Don't confuse the editor.

If you've written a compelling story with interesting characters and a strong plot ... your book won't be rejected because you used XXX for line breaks. But if your book is a dull narrative with confusing action and stock characters, using a centered hash mark to show line breaks won't get it bought.

As always a publisher's specific guidelines trump anything you read here--for that specific publisher.