Question about my beginning .....

[Overkill]

Okay, i've decided my finished work, PREACHER'S BLOOD, needs another edit. There is one character in particular who needs to be reworked and a few other things i want to change.

For one, i am going to rework and reorder the first couple of chapters because the main event that propels the story doesn't occur until chapter 2 and i realize it needs to occur in chapter one. So, with that in mind, here is my question: in regards to a beginning, i mean a beginning line, i wanted an opinion as to what might be better.

#1 - Gavin Preacher got to work early monday morning, fifteen minutes before a pregnant woman named Jennifer Ki sat at his desk and fired a bullet into his mouth.

OR

#2 - Gavin Preacher got to work early monday morning, fifteen minutes before a pregnant woman named Jennifer Ki ast at his desk and changed his life forever.

i was caught between revealing the act and letting it go until later on when it actually happens but i've read books where the type of thing i wrote in number one happens, and happens successfully.

What do you guys think?

thanks

Greg Jeffrey

[Ms Hollands]

I like the second one better.

Also, if he was there before she was, how did she sit at his desk?

[KTC]

Okay, i've decided my finished work, PREACHER'S BLOOD, needs another edit. There is one character in particular who needs to be reworked and a few other things i want to change.

For one, i am going to rework and reorder the first couple of chapters because the main event that propels the story doesn't occur until chapter 2 and i realize it needs to occur in chapter one. So, with that in mind, here is my question: in regards to a beginning, i mean a beginning line, i wanted an opinion as to what might be better.

#1 - Gavin Preacher got to work early monday morning, fifteen minutes before a pregnant woman named Jennifer Ki sat at his desk and fired a bullet into his mouth.

OR

#2 - Gavin Preacher got to work early monday morning, fifteen minutes before a pregnant woman named Jennifer Ki ast at his desk and changed his life forever.

i was caught between revealing the act and letting it go until later on when it actually happens but i've read books where the type of thing i wrote in number one happens, and happens successfully.

What do you guys think?

thanks

Greg Jeffrey

Of course, number 1 would grab the reader more. There is no contest.

ETA: #2 would actually be wrong in my book. 'changed his life forever'? She ends his life, she doesn't change it. We don't know that yet, but once we did we would consider that opening wrong. OR I would.

[callalily61]

#1 - Gavin Preacher got to work early Monday morning, fifteen minutes before a pregnant woman named Jennifer Ki sat at his desk and fired a bullet into his her mouth.



:) You did mean "her", right?

It strikes me as kind of awkward. I think it's the "15 mins before" phrase.

Tried to come up with alternatives and ditched 4 of them. Need coffee. Argh.

[Overkill]

Yes, i did mean her mouth. I should have noticed that when i edited the post. thank you for noticing and i really do like number one best and will probably go with it unless a better option comes along or is proposed.

thank you

Greg Jeffrey

[willietheshakes]

Huh.

Actually, I kinda prefer her firing a bullet into HIS mouth.

[Sassee]

#1, definitely.

[Ms Hollands]

Oh....I liked it better when it was his too....I still like number 2. Number 1 gives the game away, but I guess it depends on the paragraphs following it.

[qwerty]

Compromise: Gavin Preacher's life was changed forever early one morning when a pregnant woman sat at his desk and fired a bullet into her mouth.

Saying how many minutes he arrived before seems to hesitate the impact.

[Alpha Echo]

Of course, number 1 would grab the reader more. There is no contest.

ETA: #2 would actually be wrong in my book. 'changed his life forever'? She ends his life, she doesn't change it. We don't know that yet, but once we did we would consider that opening wrong. OR I would.

I agree with this. Plus, I think #2 is a cliche.

[Prawn]

Too much detail. Leave the reader some questions. Deliver the shocker, then switch to something else:

Gavin Preacher got to work early enough to see the pregnant woman kill herself. He usually didn't get to work early because of the train.

Now the reader has to read on to find out more.

[dwellerofthedeep]

The first thing I thought when I saw the two of those openings was: "Wow those are some long sentences."
Consider breaking the one you choose into two, or even three simple sentences instead.
I agree that the 'fifteen minutes' bit is awkward, and would suggest removing it.

[jannawrites]

Too much detail. Leave the reader some questions. Deliver the shocker, then switch to something else:

Gavin Preacher got to work early enough to see the pregnant woman kill herself. He usually didn't get to work early because of the train.

Now the reader has to read on to find out more.

I agree with this. Don't drop the entire premise in the reader's lap with the first sentence - it feels too rushed, too urgent. Set it up, and then ease into it.

Good luck!

[Mad Queen]

#1 is infinitely better than #2.
Gavin Preacher got to work early enough to see the pregnant woman kill herself.
'Kill herself' isn't nearly as cool as 'sat at his desk and fired a bullet into her mouth'.

[Shar-Jan]

First one is best. It's more jarring and interesting.

[dawinsor]

I have a problem with "changed his life forever," because I've seen that exact phrase in a number of blurbs. If you go with the second version, I'd edit that. As a matter of fact, you might edit it to be more original and see if you like that version better than #1.

[Cato]

#1 fo sho.

[MarkEsq]

#1 - Gavin Preacher got to work early monday morning, fifteen minutes before a pregnant woman named Jennifer Ki sat at his desk and fired a bullet into his mouth.

OR

#2 - Gavin Preacher got to work early monday morning, fifteen minutes before a pregnant woman named Jennifer Ki ast at his desk and changed his life forever.


#1 is better. Also, I pictured a preacher in his office, the name sort of took over my mind with an image. One other image relates to firing a bullet into her mouth. I pictured it flying around in there, a little UFO in a big cavern. Just saying. Maybe I'm weird.

Here's how I would write it, for what it's worth, kind of a blend of immediate impact and withholding something:

Gavin Preacher arrived at his desk early on Monday morning, fifteen minutes before a pregnant woman named Jennifer Ki sat opposite him and put the barrel of a gun in her mouth.

To shorten you could leave out her name, the fact she's pregnant, "the barrel of," or the fifteen minutes.

[ccarver30]

#1

#2 is "gah".

[Donkey]

Huh.

Actually, I kinda prefer her firing a bullet into HIS mouth.
Ditto. That grabbed me.

[JustGo]

I certainly liked the 'his' more, too, but that would completely change your book, and it's a bit late for that now, I'm guessing...

Short of that, Prawn's suggestion is perfect. I'd go with that.

[Nateskate]

Writers tend to give advice in their own voice, so take this with a grain of salt.

Gavin Preacher got to work early monday morning, unaware that in fifteen minutes he would be eating a bullet.


I think if you tell too much it will take away from the anticipation. Now the reader wants to know- who, why, whether it killed him.

[nevada]

POV problem. If it's in his POV he doesnt know that something is going to happen to him 15 minutes later. Especially in Nateskate's example. (sorry nate)

If he's unaware, then we're not in his POV. if the book is written from his POV then whose POV is that sentence in. I know thrillers do it a lot but I hate that unknown omniscient narrator at the beginning just so the author can do the set-up without too much work and maybe throw in an info dump in the guise of an "exciting beginning." Hate it.

Why not just start at the point where the woman sits at his desk? Who cares about what he does or doesn't know when he gets to work early. And if him being early is important, then just show him arriving and thinking "hey bees knees I'm early for a change". The reader will figure out the importance of it when things start to happen. YOu don't have to point things out to them. They're smarter than given credit for.

[Raphee]

#1 Without a doubt.

[Prawn]

POV problem. If it's in his POV he doesnt know that something is going to happen to him 15 minutes later. Especially in Nateskate's example. (sorry nate)

This is a literary device called foreshadowing. It has a long tradition. It is also in medias res-y, which has such a long tradition, there is a Latin name for it. But screw tradition, it just makes the story more interesting, so why not use it?

[cara k]

I think Nevada raises a sound issue with the POV. If the novel is in Gavin's POV, why not set up the scene, and deliver the blow in the first chapter, or on the first page? Or delete the fifteen minutes, and start it right when the pregnant woman walks in?
If I had to choose, though, I'd definitely go with the first sentence. I might delete her name to shorten, but I wouldn't take out the fact that she's pregnant--it's a strong visual. Good luck with this. (And now I'm curious--was the baby his?)

[smoothseas]

And another vote for Number One.

I agree, I'd break that up into two or three simple declarative sentences, just for the sake of impact.

[nevada]

This is a literary device called foreshadowing. It has a long tradition. It is also in medias res-y, which has such a long tradition, there is a Latin name for it. But screw tradition, it just makes the story more interesting, so why not use it?

Yes I do know literary devices, having a degree in Lit and all. But you know, addressing the reader directly is a literary device and it's not done anymore either. Nor is having five pages of description, nor is being given the entire history of a character before he even says a word.

I would argue with you that it's not foreshadowing as accepted as a literary device. Foreshadowing as such is having events happen that are later echoed in the main action. Or having a character lose an item that later on becomes extremely important or some such thing.

It's a POV shift if you're in 3rd person limited. That kind of foreshadowing works if the POV is omniscient. And I think it should only be used if the entire novel is omniscient. That kind of foreshadowing is right up there with "if he only knew". Hate it.

I don't think it makes it more interesting. I think it's sloppy. And the easy way out.

[FennelGiraffe]

POV problem. If it's in his POV he doesnt know that something is going to happen to him 15 minutes later. Especially in Nateskate's example. (sorry nate)

If he's unaware, then we're not in his POV. if the book is written from his POV then whose POV is that sentence in.

Which version are you referring to? The original version #2--'changed his life forever'--is a POV violation*. So is Nateskate's version. But do you mean version #1 as well?

If so, I suppose it's 'before' that's bothering you. That is a word subject to abuse, but I don't see it in this case. Event A happened before event B. Normal chronological order. If it were Before event B, Event A happened, then there would be inverted chronology. That can be interpreted as a form of foreknowledge, and thus a POV violation.

It's a lengthy sentence anyway. It could easily be split up and made more straightforward:Gavin Preacher got to work early Monday morning. Fifteen minutes later, a pregnant woman named Jennifer Ki sat at his desk and fired a bullet into her mouth.
*Assuming it's supposed to be his POV in the first place.

[Telstar]

Compromise: Gavin Preacher's life was changed forever early one morning when a pregnant woman sat at his desk and fired a bullet into her mouth.

Saying how many minutes he arrived before seems to hesitate the impact.

This is what I would do.

[Telstar]

That kind of foreshadowing works if the POV is omniscient. And I think it should only be used if the entire novel is omniscient. That kind of foreshadowing is right up there with "if he only knew". Hate it.


BTW I like omniscent and that "if he only knew". Of course used with proper craft.

[nevada]

Which version are you referring to? The original version #2--'changed his life forever'--is a POV violation*. So is Nateskate's version. But do you mean version #1 as well?

If so, I suppose it's 'before' that's bothering you. That is a word subject to abuse, but I don't see it in this case. Event A happened before event B. Normal chronological order. If it were Before event B, Event A happened, then there would be inverted chronology. That can be interpreted as a form of foreknowledge, and thus a POV violation.

It's a lengthy sentence anyway. It could easily be split up and made more straightforward:Gavin Preacher got to work early Monday morning. Fifteen minutes later, a pregnant woman named Jennifer Ki sat at his desk and fired a bullet into her mouth.
*Assuming it's supposed to be his POV in the first place.

In both examples. Gavin doesn't know that he arrives before anything happens. So he can't narrate that he arrives before something happens unless it's a flashback. And I know I'm being really strict about the POV interpretation and if it's in the middle of the book and i've been reading it and I'm getting into the story, i would forgive it. But as a first sentence, I would be "nope, not reading it." But, and that's a big but (no smart ass comments, thank you :P) would the average reader notice? Or is that just one of those small things you make sure is perfect even if not everyone will notice? Then you have to ask yourself the question, what else do you think you can get away with because people might not notice? And then you start taking short cuts and pretty soon your work is crap. (personal experience. lol)

[Mad Queen]

If the whole book is written from an omniscient point of view, what's the problem?

[nevada]

If the whole book is written from an omniscient point of view, what's the problem?

I did say that if the whole book was written in omniscient then it's not a problem. It's only a problem if the book is written in 3rd limited. I don't know what it's written in.

[Ciera_]

Love your book title (I thought this mainly BEFORE finding out that hte character's name was Preacher. I like the idea of an actual preacher's blood. it sounds more...I dunno. Better when it's not his name. But still a great, catchy title)
But anyway
I don't really like either.
The 'fifteen minutes' sounds sort of awkward and the 'fired a bullet into her/his mouth' thing just strikes me as bad phrasing. I'd go with,

Gavin Preacher arrived at work early, that Monday morning. Just in time for a pregnant woman named Jennifer Ki to sit down in his office and shoot herself in the mouth
OR
Gavin Preacher was early to work on Monday. Fifteen minutes later and he might've missed the pregnant woman who sat in his office and shot herself in the mouth.

Or something. Of course I think my way sounds better, but the original was pretty good. I would choose number 1

[Mad Queen]

But when you read a first sentence, you still don't know if the whole book is written in omniscient or not. Never mind, I just thought it was weird that you wouldn't keep reading a book if the first sentence had a POV shift even though nothing came before it, so there could be no shift. If there is a POV shift, it's in one of the following sentences, not the first. Just silly nit-picking.

[TrickyFiction]

Gavin Preacher got to work early Monday morning. Fifteen minutes later, a pregnant woman named Jennifer Ki sat at his desk and fired a bullet into her mouth.

This is my favorite of all the suggestions, so far. It's a snap event, so I think it's best narrated in snappy sentences. Shortening them builds the tension. When they were longer, it felt slow even though the moment was supposed to be an exciting one.

[nevada]

But when you read a first sentence, you still don't know if the whole book is written in omniscient or not. Never mind, I just thought it was weird that you wouldn't keep reading a book if the first sentence had a POV shift even though nothing came before it, so there could be no shift. If there is a POV shift, it's in one of the following sentences, not the first. Just silly nit-picking.

Yes, you're right. I would read the next few sentences to see if it was omniscient. If the whole book is omniscient, I probably wouldn't read it because it's rarely done well and it's not my favourite. And i would open the book at a random spot to make sure. I should have been more specific.

[Overkill]

Wow, what a great discussion going on here over my first line. I appreciate all of the help and suggestions with this. Still not sure what line i will use but this is great reading for me. Lee Child, if anyone has ever heard of him, writes the Jack Reacher series starts some of his books this way and he is as successful as they come. I think i will use a few shorter sentences and have it where the girl puts the gun in her mouth, not yet talking about her pulling the trigger.

Maybe - Gavin Preacher got to work early monday morning, unaware that in fifteen minutes a pregnant girl would sit at his desk and put the barrel of a gun into her mouth.

I think that was one of the suggestions and i like that one, will probably go with it. I was thinking of another version where i mention he starts breakfast and say that but before he is able to finish a pregnant girl sits at his desk and puts the barrel of a gun into her mouth. Som ething like nthat, maybe. We'll see.

thanks guys.

Greg