Throw out your first novel...or two?

[bylinebree]

Yikes.

I've read a couple of novelist's interviews, where they say to 'throw out your first novel' or 'first three novels.' Very recently, one said this in Writer mag.

Hey, I've only got one completed at this point! It's my baby; flawed, yes, but I'm revising it again and think I know what it lacks. It was asked for twice out of two pitches I made at conferences. So it's got some merit.

And, in the meantime, I am still working on others.

If I wait until I've written four novels, or seven, or whatever, I will DIE before I'm published! And that's one of my goals (er, not to die LOL) ...to be published and have a career at this.

Do you agree with throwing out your first "attempts" or are they good enough to keep sending out?
:Shrug:

[TheWritingRunner]

I don't agree you HAVE to "throw them out", but in my experience (as someone who has read submissions and as someone who did write a very enthusiastic but "not ready for publication" first novel), I do think you're 2nd and 3rd attempts will probably be much better -- just because you'll learn so much from writing and rewriting and editing your 1st! :) But some people write a KILLER first novel on their very first try, so everyone's different. Good luck and keep writing!

[DeleyanLee]

Depends on what they mean by "throw out", I think.

I've got about 30 novels finished. Many have made the rounds and have been rejected repeatedly by agents & editors alike. Some of them never saw hard copy outside of my editing drafts. I don't regret a one of them.

Truth is, the average first novel sucks vacuum and shouldn't be sent out. However the new author isn't always the best judge of how good or bad their work is. Many new author (even experienced author) have the idea that their book is golden and wonderful and will be the next DaVinci Code or Harry Potter. It's possible, but the odds are against it. The advice you're quoting is for the average writer--which no one wants to believe is them, but it really is.

So does that mean you don't try to make your book as good as it can be? Of course not.

Does it mean never submit your first (insert # here) novels for consideration? Not really.

What I take it as is as a reminder to check your ego at the door when finished with the writing process, do everything possible to improve your book before sending it out and to save your ego for the NEXT book you've written, until there's some reason to brag on this one.

[Gray Rose]

I've recently read (but don't remember where) that about 33% of published writers break in with their first novel. The rest write multiple novels or short stories before they make it.

I am certainly not throwing away my first. I believe in my work and will stand behind it even though statistics are against me at this point. Now, if multiple agents will pass I will reconsider, but not before I give my work a fighting chance.

Best of luck with your novel!

[Gillhoughly]

Those writers are morons.

Keep writing and ignore them. Just because someone sells something doesn't make them a a know all, wise on the craft guru.

Chances are good they're in their "blabbermouth" phase of being a published writer. That kind of validation has them thinking they know everything. My bout with it lasted several years. Some writers never get past it. (Terrible bores, they are, too.)

Tom Clancy's first novel sold, and I still think it's his best. (They weren't afraid to edit him then.)

J.K. Rowling did not toss her first novel, and I'm sure she's quite pleased over how THAT turned out.

It took two years and a lot of rewrites, but my first novel sold AND snagged me a multi-book contract. They're all still in print after nearly two decades.

Hmph. Once my dad came in waving a newspaper interview of James Mitchener (I think it was him) who said, "There are too many writers in the world, we don't need any more."

That was a very rotten thing to put in front of a 14 y.o. who was just trying to tell stories. And even THEN I knew Mitchener was full of horse hockey. All I could figure was he didn't want competition.

I took a hole puncher to the piece, then invited my dad to the bathroom so he could see me flushing the new confetti down the loo.

After that he stopped trying to save me from my fate.

Keep writing and ignore the blabbermouths.

[NeuroFizz]

I haven't thrown out a single one yet. 'Course, the day's* not over yet.

* metaphoric "day"

[qwerty]

Good grief - I can't contemplate the idea of ever binning anything I've written!

My second attempt at a novel was in a bit of a mess a few years ago, so I put it aside. Last winter I ressurrected it, put it into shape and it got me an agent. If I hadn't kept that old disk (it actually started life on a floppy) I can't bear to think . . .

Nurture your baby, bylinebree. It came out of you. You gave birth to it. It's precious.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I "threw out" my first novel because it was seriously flawed and it will take a major rewrite to save it. I didn't just throw it out because of some imagined idea that it's necessary to do so to become a "well-polished" author.

I also set it aside because my second novel was poking me and wouldn't leave me alone until I wrote it.

The second one is currently in submission, getting some nibbles.

[IdiotsRUs]

Um I sold my first novel, so I'm pretty glad I didn't bin it.

Admittedly it was severely edited from it's original form as I learnt more, but then I suspect many books bear little resemblence to their first draft in terms of style / pace / characterisation etc.

My second will ( I think / hope / pray ) require less editing, that's all.

Trunk it by all means. But then maybe you'll pick it up one day with your new and improved writer skills and think 'you know, I can see just how to fix this'

[WriterInTheStone]

Don't worry if your first child is screwed up either, you'll probably get a couple more chances.

[Karen Duvall]

I got my first agent with my first novel, but it never sold. So it now sits in a trunk, forever. I loved it at the time, I really did! It taught me so much. I rewrote it 3 times, even changed it from 3rd person to 1st person. So the poor old thing is scarred and flawed, but it did its job by teaching me how to write and I'll forever love it for that. But it will never be published, mainly because I've grown as a writer and it doesn't reflect the writer I've become.

I don't believe there's such a thing as wasted words. Every scene you cut, every character you remove, every chapter you revise; they've all done their job to make the work better and therefore make you better as a writer. So even if book #1 doesn't sell, it's okay because it's not the only book you have in you. The more books you write, the easier it will be to accept the possibility your book may not sell. In fact, the book that got me my latest agent (since May of this year) is currently out on submission and I realize the real possibility it may not sell, which is why I'm holding off writing book 2 in the series and starting another series instead.

If you love that first effort and believe it will sell, you don't have to give up on it unless you want to. But you DO have to write a new book. And another new book after that. If there's any secret to being a successful writer, that's what it is. Keep those story-writing muscles in shape and keep churning out the words.

[Doug Johnson]

I will DIE before I'm published! And that's one of my goals

Mick Jagger should have said, "You can't always get what you want, especially if you want to make a living writing fiction."

[JoNightshade]

I would never "throw out" anything I'd written, but I do in fact have a couple of trunked novels. Do I still think I may resurrect them someday? I have hopes. :)

But the truth is those "failed" novels were great practice. You have to start somewhere, right? And clearly I'm not the sort of genius who can whip out a masterpiece on the first try. (Actually, I tell myself that I'm aiming higher than mass market appeal - I've actually got some real literary goals, which probably take more effort and practice to master.)

And in their time, I BELIEVED in those books. Yes, I sent them around; yes, I wanted them to be published. Should I not have done that? THANK GOD I DID, because I probably made every single stupid mistake it's possible to make in the course of shopping a novel. Now I can say, wow, thank God I made those mistakes back then on those early attempts rather than shooting myself in the foot now, when I actually have a chance.

So write as if you were one of the lucky ones - with all your heart. Put everything you've got into your first novel and give it your best go. And if it turns out your first novel ends up trunked, that's not the end of the world. You start another one, and you give THAT one everything you've got, and more. Is that too much to ask? I don't think so, because if you're stuck after the first novel how were you planning on being a successful novelist anyway?

[bylinebree]

Don't worry if your first child is screwed up either, you'll probably get a couple more chances.

Nah, she's great in a line of four.
#4 is also great.
Now #2 and 3...um...I do love all four of them.

Guess that's how we feel about our novels too, eh?

(A Big P.S. I didn't really meant to THROW it throw it away - just to stop working on it or sending it, and shelve it on a shelf or a CD. So much for being a word-crafter LOL.)

[bylinebree]

Those writers are morons.

Tom Clancy's first novel sold, and I still think it's his best. (They weren't afraid to edit him then.)

J.K. Rowling did not toss her first novel, and I'm sure she's quite pleased over how THAT turned out.

It took two years and a lot of rewrites, but my first novel sold AND snagged me a multi-book contract. They're all still in print after nearly two decades.

Keep writing and ignore the blabbermouths.

A writing partner just reminded me that Anne Rice's 1st didn't sell either...until later when she pulled it out again. They made a movie out of it.

Thanks Gillhoughly (my mind-tongue tangles when I try to mind-pronounce your screen name, geez!)
:D

[FennelGiraffe]

Thanks Gillhoughly (my mind-tongue tangles when I try to mind-pronounce your screen name, geez!)
:D

Watch the movie a dozen or two times, and you won't have that problem anymore.:roll:

[Sunshine13]

I hope this isn't the case with me. Yes, it sucked vacuum when I first wrote it 10 years ago (or was it 8?) but it's gone through some extensive revisions, rewritings, etc. But who knows. I'll find out soon enough, I 'spose. :D

[Shadow_Ferret]

I got my first agent with my first novel, but it never sold. So it now sits in a trunk, forever. I loved it at the time, I really did! It taught me so much. I rewrote it 3 times, even changed it from 3rd person to 1st person. So the poor old thing is scarred and flawed, ....
Can't be THAT flawed if it garnered an agent. Seems like it might be a darned good novel that might just need a minor tweeking, or be brought back out after you've got a few more sales under your belt.

[RedScylla]

Don't throw it out. My first novel is propping up the short leg of my writing desk. Very useful.

[Phaeal]

Write the book, whether it's number one or number one hundred. Revise it to the best of your ability. Put it out on the market.

The market will decide whether it's publishable right here, right now. If the market says no, either revise again or let it age.

But why ever throw it away? It's a piece of your literary history, and scholars may drool over it someday. ;)

[JamieFord]

I wouldn't do it automatically, but you have to be honest with yourself and realize that some stories might end up as learning experiences, and that's OKAY. There's a point in editing and revising where you're probably subjecting your work to a "death of a thousand cuts".

[Diana Hignutt]

By first novel earned a Spectrum Award Nomination.

Never, ever, believe in generalizations. Every writer is different, what works for some doesn't work for others.

[vrabinec]

Write the book, whether it's number one or number one hundred. Revise it to the best of your ability. Put it out on the market.

The market will decide whether it's publishable right here, right now. If the market says no, either revise again or let it age.

But why ever throw it away? It's a piece of your literary history, and scholars may drool over it someday. ;)

Right, my first novel is collecting mold very nicely in the basement.

[Gillhoughly]

Gill-hoo-lee. Accent on the "hoo."

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

We Irish have such creative fun with spelling!

[Charlie Horse]

I remember bristling the first time I heard someone say this. I had written a novel, damnit, and it was damn good.

My second novel was so much better.

My third and current WIP kicks all their asses.

[JJ Cooper]

My first novel will be published next year by Random House. My second the year after.

JJ

[ishtar'sgate]

Yikes.


Do you agree with throwing out your first "attempts" or are they good enough to keep sending out?
:Shrug:
No, I don't agree and fortunately for me I paid no attention to such 'advice'. I didn't throw out my first attempt. It was bought and published in 2005 then nominated for an award in 2006.
Linnea

[ORION]

"Chances are good they're in their "blabbermouth" phase of being a published writer. That kind of validation has them thinking they know everything."

er gee Gillhoughly... I hope you're not throwing me in that category.

IMHO there's a reason they're called "trunk novels" sometimes there's a great premise in there and other times...not so much. I don't think I've heard ANYONE say throw them away. I've talked to a lot of authors and most say the third novel was the first published and their other novels after that if the premises had merit...AND they heavily revised
I think also the point is many authors waste a lot of time querying that first unready novel when they should be writing number two...
It is very possible your first novel written may be your third or fourth published...

[xiaotien]

I've recently read (but don't remember where) that about 33% of published writers break in with their first novel. The rest write multiple novels or short stories before they make it.


maybe this is a good stat?

i sold my first--and know quite a few
authors who have as well.

keep at it as long as you believe and
feel passionate about the novel.
query widely. if you don't get an agent, then
it's time to think on it.

you can either submit to editors through
slush or put the first novel in a drawer.
GOOD LUCK and /bootay shake! 8)

[tehuti88]

I never throw anything out and I don't believe in throwing anything out.

I do believe in perhaps setting something aside, revisiting it a few years later, and, if it sucks horribly, redoing it. I believe anything can be salvageable with the passage of enough time and the development of enough skill.

But throwing out, no, I do not believe in that one bit. But that's just me and I might be naive that way. *shrug*

[Enzo]

My first novel has been rejected by 4 publishers and I'm still waiting with diminishing hopes for 3 other publishers to respond.
I'm taking your advice so I'm now working hard to make that second novel a lot better than the first one.

[Susan Breen]

My first and second novels didn't sell, but I got an agent out of both of them, and I wound up taking a character from my second novel and using it in my third, which did sell. Just the other day I was writing a scene about a party and i remembered a party scene from my second novel and took details from that. One way or another those first two novels will be published, even if in bits and pieces. So don't throw out anything.

[J C Coy]

My first two are trunk jobs BUT I never intended them to be anything else. They were just to see if I could write something that long. I never polished them or edited them. They sucked. But it didn't matter. I learned that I could crank out enough words to write a novel.

My first serious attempt took many rewrites but I did get it in front of an editor....I haven't heard from them in way too long, but it did get that far.

So don't listen to anyone telling you to throw out your work. Keep at it and polish it until it shines. Then start a new one.

[joyce]

My first attempt got all sorts of bites and nibbles but no takers. I still hold it close to my heart though. My second novel was an attempt to follow all the rules and I hate it. The voice in it is just not me but someone trying to conform to those rules. I think that's why I have given up on it. It just doesn't have the spark the first one did. My third I'm working on, has my voice and I think will be much better. Until I stopped here I never realized there were so many don'ts. Now I'm trying to incorporate those don'ts and still keep my style. :)

[James D. Macdonald]

Tom Clancy's first novel sold, and I still think it's his best. (They weren't afraid to edit him then.)

I believe, though, that his first sale was the second written. The first written sold later, if memory doesn't play me false.

I'd say that it's entirely possible for a first novel to sell. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't. While your first novel may not suck, most of them do. And don't spend thirty years trying to sell your first novel; write a second and a third and a fourth....

[swvaughn]

Ah, sweet agony. It's threads like these that remind me what an utter failure I am. :cool:

My first and second novels went nowhere - and rightfully so. They sucked. I buried them. My third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh novels also went nowhere. My eighth novel got me an agent... but she couldn't sell it. My ninth novel is currently with my agent, garnering a shiny new collection of rejections.

And I'm working on Number 10. Why yes, I am an effing idiot, thank you. :D Aren't we glad that, as evidenced by all these stories, I am the exception to the rule?

[PeekABooWriter]

I think some people must mean that we should consider our first couple of novels as a learning exercise. Many don't make any money or sell hardly any of their first books. But I don't necessarily believe that. It's easy to think a bit of advice from a few experienced authors is God's final word. Like anything, each situation is unique. I will not toss out my first novels. I also realize that I have been writing all my life, so should I consider my first book to be my first real work? No, I think my first real work was when I decided to pick up a pen. My first novels are actually NOT my first experience. If that makes any sense.

[GLAZE_by_KyrstinMc]

My first novel will be published next year by Random House. My second the year after.

JJ

Congratulations! :)

[GLAZE_by_KyrstinMc]

I never throw anything out and I don't believe in throwing anything out.

I do believe in perhaps setting something aside, revisiting it a few years later, and, if it sucks horribly, redoing it. I believe anything can be salvageable with the passage of enough time and the development of enough skill.

But throwing out, no, I do not believe in that one bit. But that's just me and I might be naive that way. *shrug*

Yes I agree. I look back on some things I've written and think, "Oh geez, what was I thinking with this one...".

But I save all my work and constantly look back on it. Sometimes I added in good parts, so I carry that through to the next book I write.

[roncouch]

My first novel is approaching one year old. I wrote it in less than three months. I wouldn't dream of throwing it away. It may be ugly to some, but it's my baby. My second manuscript is pending acceptance or rejection by a commercial publisher. I feel number two is better written than the first. I hope I never stop trying to improve.
Ron

[maestrowork]

If your first novel is utter crap, then throw it out, put it in the trunk, or get back to it later. Write another one.

But if your first novel is good, then why throw it out? That's just silly.

I published the very first novel I ever completed (I started on a serial but quit after 15,000 words). Granted, it could have been better and now I read it again, I can see all kinds of improvements and rewrites I could do on it -- still, should I have thrown it out? No way.

[PeekABooWriter]

But a writer may not be the best judge if his or her book is good or crap. Many novels that are said to be crap by agents and publishers go on to be blockbusters. How can you know? You could throw out a best seller thinking it's crap.

[MadScientistMatt]

My first long piece of fiction was a screenplay. It was written in the wrong format, it satirized a lot of things that are now out of date, and I've overall written it off as unsalvagable. I think the best I could get out of it would be to change it to a novel, shuffle the chapters into a different order, slip in a stray lab report, and send it to PublishAmerica as a sting manuscript.

But my first novel came somewhat after that, and I think I can get it into publishable shape with a couple rewrites.

[Nateskate]

It sounds like this author is overstating an opinion about growth. Sure, we grow as writers if we persist. My first serious attempt to write a novel is finally getting published into a series. It's been through countless revisions though.

Honestly, it depends on how great the story idea is, and not necessarily the writing. The writing will improve over time.

[MrWrite]

I'm working on my first novel right now. It started out as a screenplay but for some reason that wasn't working out so good. So I decided to rewrite it as a novel. As a novel I am putting much more detail into it. I thought at first that a screenplay would be easier to write than a novel as writing a novel seemed like a much bigger commitment. But I'm finding that writing the novel is actually much easier. I can let my imagination go more and be more descriptive.
As I write this book I know that it's a long way from being publishable. It's clunky and there's too much smiling and grinning going on so I know I need to edit that out lol. But that's what the editing phase is all about. I do think I have a cool premise though so I'm hoping that my writing can go close to matching the plot. However long that takes. One thing though I know I will never throw this story out. If it turns out to be not quite good enough then I will work on my next book which I already have the basic plot worked out. In time if necessary I may go back to Psychic Witness and rewrite it completely. But I'll never give up on this one.

[timewaster]

It sounds like a stupid statement to me. Some first novels are good some bad and for the writer it is always a little difficult to tell the difference. If you want a 'career' you have to keep writing whether it sells or not.

[rugcat]

I published the very first novel I ever completed (I started on a serial but quit after 15,000 words). I also sold my first novel, many years ago, (Although the first book I wrote was a non fiction memoir of sorts that never found a home, so I did get some practice in.)

So yeah, generalizations are silly. People develop at different paces. Some whose first book is pretty damn good never go on to write anything better. Some whose first book is utter crap end up writing some very good ones indeed.Granted, it could have been better and now I read it again, I can see all kinds of improvements and rewrites I could do on it -- still, should I have thrown it out? No way.I too can look back at my first novel and see mistakes I made and a bunch of stuff I could have done better. But it is what it is. It also had the freshness that came from it being a first book, the excitement and engine that comes from (relative) youth. Just keep writing and don't worry about what came before.

[Peachnuts]

Don't throw it out. What a defeating angle.
If the book isn't very good (which I doubt) then after you shop it around, you will come to realize if it is marketable or not by the rejections and feedback.
Go for it.
Believe in yourself because some days it feel like no one else will.

PS. I'm coming to terms with my 1st book, no bites for me. But I have not waved the white flag yet.

[bylinebree]

I like "it's part of your literary history" - whoever said that. And I'm impressed by whoever (sorry but I get lost looking thru previous posts!) has a Fantasy she's queried 25 times!! Kudos to you!

It's hard to give up on a whole kingdom that I created over a 3 yr foray into fiction writing, when I was so thrilled just to be DOING it, discovering my writing voice; while my hubby was in Iraq & I was working, lonely and stressed, and this story gave me such joy. I surprised myself hugely by even creating that world, the characters I came to love (or hate) & churning out over 600pgs! So maybe one day...

Yeah, I won't give up on it yet. But I'll keep writing other stories as I keep tweaking.

The good thing about the writing biz is that it's completely without rules, really...which should fit me to a 't' LOL.

[Straka]

I trunked my first two. I got good responses from professionals that the plot was well developed, but I came to understand that while it was a good story, it was not a good commercial story and I had to work more on keeping my voice consistent. I've since moved onto slightly better written work :)

The first two I also wrote in high school and early college.

[jnmarz]

I hope that's not true!

I'm polishing my first full-length novel right now. I don't know if it's really publishable but I'm hoping to at least land an agent out of it. Sometimes I read it and think it's brilliant. Sometimes I'll pick up the very same pages and wonder why the hell I even try. I'm moody and fickle.

[bylinebree]

Welcome to the Club.

I think just the experience of polishing your novel is valuable, even if it's not published, ever -- but perish the thought of that! May your dream come true!

I'm about to go into the, er, third "polishing" of my first novel - off and on (fickle) - when I feel like it or guilt compels me (moody).

[Charlie Horse]

I think the main point to be made in this discussion is, regardless of whether or not your first manuscript is publishable or not, don't stop there. Sure it's your first, and it will always be special, but if you're doing things right, your work will improve with each subsequent piece you produce so write, write, write, then write some more.

[johnzakour]

My first novel sold (after many edits and rewrites) and it still has the most "magic" for me. Still my agent and publishers insist I am getting better with each book. (And I agree.)

So don't toss it.

[Nakhlasmoke]

I think after reading this that I must be the suckiest writer ever, with the longest learning curve. I've trunked my first five novels, and only got representation with number 6.

I learned a lot though, writing those dreadful tomes. Everyone has a different experience.