Thoughts/Internal Conflict

[bsolah]

Similar to the problem in this thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117459), I'm trying to work out what to do with a few scenes where my character is basically just thinking. I like the idea of externalizing it, but in this case he mostly acts alone.

When I was a beginner writer, I used to just convert thoughts to italics and let him think that way.

These are the scenes roughly
- MC is driving to a location that was a childhood sanctuary/thinking place, and he's thinking about memories of him and his girlfriend who just broke up with him
- MC is caving when he realizes he's anxious about being alone, and also at home later when he feels anxious again.

Some general advice on how to handles scenes like this would help too as it could come up again.

[Maryn]

When I was a reader ;) I'd skip paragraphs of italicized thought. Just sayin' is all.

In the scene where your MC is driving toward his childhood sanctuary, you could have the things he passes trigger memory after memory. There is was, the coffee shop where Tim's dad turned into a gregarious stranger, flirting with the waitress and talking soccer with whoever sat on the next stool over. God, he'd been so different at home, almost secretive about his thoughts, to Mom's frustration and Tim's alienation. Screw him if he didn't want to be as pleasant to his family as to anybody who could afford a cup of coffee.

He braked for the light, keeping an eye on the signal while fishing between the seats for his sunglasses. Damn it, why didn't he ever put them away properly? Wait, was that them? He bent, a long index finger probing. Yes!

Behind him a car honked, then again, longer. The light had turned green, and he didn't have his sunglasses.

On the other side of Milburn, he squinted at a squat apartment building silhouetted in the setting sun. It had swallowed the playground where the seesaw had dumped him without ceremony and smacked the underside of his chin for good measure. His hand touched the scar. Ten stitches, and no possibility of Tim's ever growing a decent beard, not with that hairless slash.

Way short of brilliant, but you get the idea. He's only driven what, a half a block? But he's been doing something more than just spouting italicized memories.

Maryn, getting to kind of like Tim

[Adam Hammonds]

When I was a reader ;) I'd skip paragraphs of italicized thought.

Long ones? Totally.

you could have the things he passes trigger memory after memory.

You could even have a line break and deliver one (or some) of these scenes in a time-jump narrative. Then back again. Memory cut short by the honking, or what have you.

[Stunted]

One good trick is that if one thought triggers another and you set it up the right way, you can just put the thoughts into the story straight. You know, like narration.

The drive through where he'd first taken her in 9th grade went past. Back then, he thought she was the prettiest girl in the world bla bla bla.

Like that.

[dempsey]

I'd say confine any internal conflict into as little as possible. Use physical tells where possible. Really condense it. I'm only patient enough to read someone's inner thoughts for one or two sentences. A pargraph feels like filler.

[FennelGiraffe]

- MC is driving to a location that was a childhood sanctuary/thinking place, and he's thinking about memories of him and his girlfriend who just broke up with him

A flashback showing what he's remembering as a fully-developed scene.


- MC is caving when he realizes he's anxious about being alone, and also at home later when he feels anxious again.

Very brief thoughts--one liners--interspersed through a scene where something external (and meaningful) is happening.

[OremLK]

I disagree with everyone in this thread. Internal conflict is good, as long as it advances the story and/or reveals character. I can't stand novels that try to be movies--embrace the great strength of fiction, don't push it away.

I remember one chapter in Orson Scott Card's Ender series where the entire thing took place inside a character's (Peter's) mind. It was engrossing and worked fine.

The key to remember, though, is that the character's thoughts need to be advancing the story. Internal conflict makes this self-evident: The character ought to be struggling with himself or thinking through something to make a decision. And it ought to be an interesting decision with potent consequences, too.

Italics are not necessary, but they can be used if you feel more comfortable with them. Usually you would only use them when the thoughts are like dialogue--when they lapse into first person, like the character is actually talking to himself, inside his head.

Oh, by the way, "character driving in a car thinking about stuff" is a way overused cliche. You might want to find a different setting for the internal narrative.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

I disagree with everyone in this thread. Internal conflict is good, as long as it advances the story and/or reveals character. I can't stand novels that try to be movies--embrace the great strength of fiction, don't push it away.

I remember one chapter in Orson Scott Card's Ender series where the entire thing took place inside a character's (Peter's) mind. It was engrossing and worked fine.

The key to remember, though, is that the character's thoughts need to be advancing the story. Internal conflict makes this self-evident: The character ought to be struggling with himself or thinking through something to make a decision. And it ought to be an interesting decision with potent consequences, too.

Italics are not necessary, but they can be used if you feel more comfortable with them. Usually you would only use them when the thoughts are like dialogue--when they lapse into first person, like the character is actually talking to himself, inside his head.

Oh, by the way, "character driving in a car thinking about stuff" is a way overused cliche. You might want to find a different setting for the internal narrative.


I agree with Orem here. In the head can work great. If used right.

[Telstar]

I disagree with everyone in this thread. Internal conflict is good, as long as it advances the story and/or reveals character.

This is the important part.

In the first part of my 4th or 5th chapter, I describe the thoughts and reasoning of my MC about what happened the previous night.
I chose to not dramatize it in a scene, and I think that the result is more enticing and shows more the innermost aspects of my MC.

But in the case of the OP, it is just a flashback or a series of flashbacks, unless he makes it relevant for the plot and creates anticipation to the reader.

[tehuti88]

Jeez, I must be really forgiving or something. I'm always saddened to see how many people skip reading things just because they're italicized (even long sections) or are marked "Prologue" or whatever. I at least give things a chance to find out if they're bad or not. :(

I'm an "italicize internal thoughts" type myself, so that might be why. BUT, based on your own description of what the character will be doing, I don't think that's the best way to go. I have to be honest, most of my longer stretches of italicized thought are in fact telepathic conversations and NOT just one person thinking things over. Reading one person thinking about something for a long time can be pretty boring. It's almost like telling and not showing. "I'm feeling so worried today about this or that..." Dull. Anybody can say they're worried--does that mean the reader will care? So I'd eschew quoting direct thoughts, except possibly for very short thoughts here and there.

I think you'd be better off describing his mental state in the narration from a close third-person POV. SHOW the reader what he's thinking--the childhood place, his girlfriend, his loneliness--and show WHY these are important. You can also describe how he's acting--gripping the steering wheel, sweating, feeling weak, feeling a gnawing in his stomach as he recalls such-and-such or worries about so-and-so. This will evoke more reader interest than a long-running interior monologue about how he's feeling.

Apologies I'm not more specific, I'm always afraid my ISP will kick me off! :o

[Danthia]

"Thoughts" can be a bit misleading. All narrative is basically someone's thoughts, but you wouldn't italicize it all. And often, larger italicized sections denote more than just thoughts. It can be a flashback, a memory, a voice in the subconscious. It's used as a style thing as often as a thought thing.

Take a step back, because this is really about POV and how you write your narrative. If your POV character is thinking, then your internalization will be the narrative text. The story itself. Depending on your narrative distance, those internal thoughts we either feel close and "first personish" or feel more distant with a "he thought" tag. There are multiple style to do that. You can quote them, single quote them, italicize them or leave them plain.

"I'll never see her again," he thought.
'I'll never see her again,' he thought.
I'll never see her again, he thought.
I'll never see her again, he thought.

Personally, I find "he thought" tags to be jarring and they pull me out of the story. It's like a reminder that I'm reading something. If you've done your POV well, then it'll be clear what is a thought and what is plain old narrative.

He drove past the empty cornfields. "I'll never see her again," he thought.
He drove past the empty cornfields. I'll never see her again, he thought.
He drove past the empty cornfields. I'll never see her again.
He drove past the empty cornfields. He'd never see her again.

I like to use italics for thoughts I want to empasize. I do them in present tense to show the immediacy of the thought. I write in first person, so a quick example would be:

It wasn't going to be easy, but this was a choice I had to make. Oh God, please let me make the right one.

A non-emphasized version would be:

It wasn't going to be easy, but this was a choice I had to make. God willing, I could make the right one.

If your MC's thoughts are all just descriptions of what happend, they'll likely come across as flat descriptions and backstory. But if you write them in your MC's voice, and they drive the plot, then the story will advance and readers will be interested in hearing it. That's the key element. Description is boring, but action keeps us reading. But "action" doesn't only mean car chases. It can also be presenting the reader with a mystery or problem they want to see solved. So if your MC is struggling with or dreading a problem, they'll want to now what happens. If they get a good sense of who he is and what's he facing, then they'll care about him. If he's quirky and interesting to hang around, they'll stay to hang around and see what he does.

[job]

These are the scenes roughly
- MC is driving to a location that was a childhood sanctuary/thinking place, and he's thinking about memories of him and his girlfriend who just broke up with him
- MC is caving when he realizes he's anxious about being alone, and also at home later when he feels anxious again.

It sounds like you're going to 'stop the action' to put in these internals.
Can you slip the musings and memories and flashback into a scene where something's happening that is important to the story?


**********
Jenny pulled the big blue suitcase down from the shelf and put her clothes in, taking them off the hangers, folding them neatly, stacking them.

"We can make this work. I'll ... I'll give it up." He sounded pitiful He hated himself.

"Tell me that at the full moon. But that's not going to happen, is it?"

They hadn't always been like this. He remembered ..

They ran across a field in the full moon, side by side, and Jenny's hot breath sang in the night. Her long white teeth ...
[continues for a while]
... pulling down coeds like deer. Feasting on frat boys.

The good days. How could he give that up?

But it was the only way he could have her. "I'll get counselling. Jenny, I'll do whatever you ask. For God's sake --"

"You're not strong enough." But she stopped packing and looked up. Her eyes said she wanted to believe him.

************************

It's thrifty to put you internals and backstory into a scene that also advances the action.

[selkn.asrai]

Jeez, I must be really forgiving or something. I'm always saddened to see how many people skip reading things just because they're italicized (even long sections) or are marked "Prologue" or whatever. I at least give things a chance to find out if they're bad or not.

For me, I don't mind a paragraph of thought; the thing about a chunk of italicized narrative is that the italics put a strain on my eyes. :(

I agree with Orem and Danthia. Is it important to know only that your MC and his girlfriend have broken up, or is it important for us to know HOW they did, and WHY it's affecting him as it is in your narrative? If it advances the story, adds dimension to the character and his actions, I think you're on the right track (and a flashback may be a good way to approach this). If it's overdescription, filler, or because you just like the thought of a brooding gentleman thinking on the past as he kneads the steering wheel and speeds down an empty Route Insert Number Here, you may be mistaken.

[bsolah]

Thanks guys, I think I've managed to remove these 'thinking only' scenes and fit them into some other scenes.