Lady Churchill's Tea Salon

[Shweta]

You are in a large room, with cracks running along the floor in all directions. The ceiling, far above, is murky and covered with pipes; there may be gears grinding up there, but what they do is a mystery.

In the center of the room, a Bruges lace tablecloth is laid, pristine white, over two uneven plywood crates. A few overstuffed old sofas lined with green velveteen are clustered around this table, and bouncy multicolored exercise ball chairs roll around without apparent aim.

On the tablecloth is an blue porcelain chocolate pot, a sleek glass teapot with rosebuds steeping in the water, and a rather confused squid. The squid is to be taken with milk. There is also a plate of triangular sandwiches with the crusts neatly trimmed off one side of each. Next to the plate is a small pile of books: In the Forest of Forgetting, Castle Waiting, and City of Saints and Madmen. This last one has mushrooms growing on it. Eating them is not recommended; they tend to avenge their own.

To the North is an old, scratched-up, blackened oaken door. The bar has a keypad on it, and may be electrified. To the East is the sort of door that irises open. There are strange symbols etched into it. Near it huddles a small community of scones, with many a fearful sideways glance at the Bruges lace. To the South-South-west is a rabbit hole.

The door you came in through seems no longer to be there. When you have need for it, you must look for it in a direction no compass can point to.

>>


*ahem*

Come in, come in, be welcome; tell tales and ask questions, and try not to fall through the interstices :)

A little direction:
We're talking about what makes us interstitial-or-other-oddity folks here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132957), and we're chatting some here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132918), though I'd like to keep that one more focused on questions wot we need to answer, and have the salon for the more open-ended ones.

[Esopha]

"Churchill" is the name of my high school.

I dunno if I can hang out here without having to strangle an unfortunate urge to fill in scantron bubbles. :(

*examines the squid and decides it would be cuter wearing a paper hat*

[Gray Rose]

Rose sits down on the sofa and offers some milk to the squid, who appears to be rather taken with it.

Hey! What a cozy place :)

[Liosse de Velishaf]

Yay! I got linked to... :Hug2:


What are two things that each of you think are major factors in creating an inerstitial text? Not all, just two, and how do they affect you directly? I'm not attempting to define "interstitial". There are so many ways we get to the interstices, and so many reasons to do so. Let's each add some ingredients to the interstitial fluid and see what we get.

For me, I find wide reading a major factor. The more you read, the more you realize you can take left turns and mix it up on the page. And that other readers can read in between the lines as well as an author can write there.

Another factor is indulging in a wide range of mediums. I write poetry and occasionalyl songs and novels and I conworld. All of these are very different genres of story-telling. I read those things, and I watch a lot of tv, specifically anime. I draw, I sing (badly) and I even wander around the olf guitar neck every once and awhile (even more badly). All of these things I think contribute to my flexibility in writing.

So what has brought you here, and why did you choose to stay?



I hate sea-food, so the squid is safe from me. Unless I decide to indulge in a bit of alchemy requiring live ingredients... *Eyes mushrooms* Those might be good for something, too. Maybe a lucid dreaming aid.;)

[Haggis]

I like mushrooms. Squid for that matter too.

[Izz]

Iz wanders in, finds a crack to hide in, uses all his willpower to avoid eating one of the mushrooms.

[Shweta]

"Churchill" is the name of my high school.

I dunno if I can hang out here without having to strangle an unfortunate urge to fill in scantron bubbles. :(

The salon name is a reference to Lady Churchill's Rosebud Wristlet (http://www.lcrw.net/lcrw/)
Should we:

A) Rename the Salon
B) Wait for you to read lcrw and have your associations changed
C) Rename your high school
D) None of the above

Please be sure to use a #2 pencil when you answer.


I like mushrooms. Squid for that matter too.
But do they like you?

[Cranky]

Frak! Multiple choice quizzes? I thought there were going to be scones and stuff, or something.

*backs out slowly*

[Shweta]

Cranky: I added scones :)

For me, I find wide reading a major factor. The more you read, the more you realize you can take left turns and mix it up on the page. And that other readers can read in between the lines as well as an author can write there.

Another factor is indulging in a wide range of mediums. I write poetry and occasionalyl songs and novels and I conworld. All of these are very different genres of story-telling. I read those things, and I watch a lot of tv, specifically anime. I draw, I sing (badly) and I even wander around the olf guitar neck every once and awhile (even more badly). All of these things I think contribute to my flexibility in writing.

Query: Which is cause and which effect? Are wide readers more likely to genre-bend, or are genre-benders more likely to read widely? Or do they engage in some diabolical positive-reinforcement loop?

[Haggis]

Shweta, you're scaring me.

[Matera the Mad]

Butt down, feets up, ahhhhhhhhhhhh. I'll just watch a while.

[Shweta]

Shweta, you're scaring me.
Well, y'know, I wanted you to feel welcome, and since the Horror forum is your home ground...

[Haggis]

Good point.:D

And I am very interested to learn more about this stuff. Weird is good in my book.

[Cranky]

Cranky: I added scones :)



Query: Which is cause and which effect? Are wide readers more likely to genre-bend, or are genre-benders more likely to read widely? Or do they engage in some diabolical positive-reinforcement loop?

I hope they're tasty scones. :D

That's a good question, btw. I've wondered that myself from time to time. All I know is that I like to read widely, and I think writing in general benefits when it borrows liberally from a lot of different genres. I think it helps with the freshness factor.

Kind of like adding new material to the gene pool. :D

[Liosse de Velishaf]

Cranky: I added scones :)



Query: Which is cause and which effect? Are wide readers more likely to genre-bend, or are genre-benders more likely to read widely? Or do they engage in some diabolical positive-reinforcement loop?


"genre-bend" sounds suspiciously like "gender-bend"...


Anyway, I think that it depends on which you do first. I read very widely first, then discovered that I enjoyed writing. I'm not sure how it could happen the other way, though. It's kind of a paradox. It might work perfectly fine the other day, but how do you get into that situation? It reminds me of the common adive "read, read, read". Don't most people read before they write? I do think it can be a reinforcement loop as well. When I begin one of my more wacky projects, I go blundering around looking for recommendations in that area, and so my reading net expands.

[Esopha]

The salon name is a reference to Lady Churchill's Rosebud Wristlet (http://www.lcrw.net/lcrw/)
Should we:

A) Rename the Salon
B) Wait for you to read lcrw and have your associations changed
C) Rename your high school
D) None of the above

Please be sure to use a #2 pencil when you answer.


C, definitely. Can we name it "Abyss of No Return - Now With 80% More Standardized Testing"?

Although I could probably indulge in some required reading. *snoops through lcrw*

[Gray Rose]

To the North is an old, scratched-up, blackened oaken door. The bar has a keypad on it, and may be elctrified. To the East is the sort of door that irises open. There are strange symbols etched into it. To the South-South-west is a rabbit hole.

>> approach door

I'm sorry, what is it that you want?

>> approach dark oak door

I'm sorry, I can't parse this!

>>ssw

To the South-South-west is a rabbit hole.
A woman with a firebird on her head approaches the rabbit hole and taps it with her foot. The hole appears temporarily blocked with semicircles of horn and ivory. The woman shrugs, and shuffles back to the couch. The mushrooms eye her with concern.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

*Strange figures ooze out of the walls. The flicker and fail and flicker and glow and having made it to the other side of the room dissolve into static shadows burned into nothing.*

(poem idea begins...)

[Esopha]

What are two things that each of you think are major factors in creating an inerstitial text? Not all, just two, and how do they affect you directly? I'm not attempting to define "interstitial". There are so many ways we get to the interstices, and so many reasons to do so. Let's each add some ingredients to the interstitial fluid and see what we get.

For me, I find wide reading a major factor. The more you read, the more you realize you can take left turns and mix it up on the page. And that other readers can read in between the lines as well as an author can write there.

Another factor is indulging in a wide range of mediums. I write poetry and occasionalyl songs and novels and I conworld. All of these are very different genres of story-telling. I read those things, and I watch a lot of tv, specifically anime. I draw, I sing (badly) and I even wander around the olf guitar neck every once and awhile (even more badly). All of these things I think contribute to my flexibility in writing.

So what has brought you here, and why did you choose to stay?


I think interstitial fiction began, for me, with a growing understanding of language. When I became conversationally fluent in French, and I was able to read novels in French for the first time, I realized that the way you would say something in French is vastly different from how you would say it in English. For example, there is no marked difference between "I walk" and "I am walking" in French -- both are contained in the phrase "Je marche." I realized that all the colloquialisms were different, and it got me thinking about the way language is put together and how culture effects language and in turn literature. So when I write, I incorporate a lot of different cultures and themes from corresponding literature.

Also, I've always been a fan of word art. I'm a big fan of the book Drawings on Writing (http://www.drawingsonwriting.org/) and my mom (a neuroscientist) always says that you need to stimulate more than just verbal synapses in the brain. So I like to incorporate visual cues in my novels as well. In one novel, I have a bunch of different types of dialogue, all set off by hyphens, or italics, or plain quotation marks. Each was chosen because of the "feel" it lent the characters.

I think this answers your question? I know that everyone is expected to read widely and enjoy mixing genres, so I wanted to throw in two influences that I thought might be more unique.

eta: Also, if no one is going to eat the squid, can I keep it?

[Liosse de Velishaf]

I think interstitial fiction began, for me, with a growing understanding of language. When I became conversationally fluent in French, and I was able to read novels in French for the first time, I realized that the way you would say something in French is vastly different from how you would say it in English. For example, there is no marked difference between "I walk" and "I am walking" in French -- both are contained in the phrase "Je marche." I realized that all the colloquialisms were different, and it got me thinking about the way language is put together and how culture effects language and in turn literature. So when I write, I incorporate a lot of different cultures and themes from corresponding literature.

Also, I've always been a fan of word art. I'm a big fan of the book Drawings on Writing (http://www.drawingsonwriting.org/) and my mom (a neuroscientist) always says that you need to stimulate more than just verbal synapses in the brain. So I like to incorporate visual cues in my novels as well. In one novel, I have a bunch of different types of dialogue, all set off by hyphens, or italics, or plain quotation marks. Each was chosen because of the "feel" it lent the characters.

I think this answers your question? I know that everyone is expected to read widely and enjoy mixing genres, so I wanted to throw in two influences that I thought might be more unique.

eta: Also, if no one is going to eat the squid, can I keep it?


I definitely approve of different answers. I know mine were somewhat general. There are other more unique ones, But I was just trying to start us off.


As for the squid, I've done some divining, and I must say it appears the squid is the Guardian of the Interstices. If you want to be the care-taker, cool. But I don't think we should mess with her too much. You never know when the floor might liquefy, and drop you into a pool of molten cauliflower.

[Haggis]

All your squids are belong to us.

[Cranky]

I definitely approve of different answers. I know mine were somewhat general. There are other more unique ones, But I was just trying to start us off.


As for the squid, I've done some divining, and I must say it appears the squid is the Guardian of the Interstices. If you want to be the care-taker, cool. But I don't think we should mess with her too much. You never know when the floor might liquefy, and drop you into a pool of molten cauliflower.

Molten cauliflower? Hmmm. If it were just a *little* bit cooler, it would make for a nice little hot tub. Yummy, too, with some cheese.

[Shweta]

I think interstitial fiction began, for me, with a growing understanding of language. When I became conversationally fluent in French, and I was able to read novels in French for the first time, I realized that the way you would say something in French is vastly different from how you would say it in English.

That's really interesting to me.
It's another take on having different perspectives and thus writing from multiple perspectives...

And I feel that this sort of writing has more to do with mixed/ambiguous premises/world views/perspectives than with the more concrete "elements" that go with different genres. Like, magical realism has more to do with how the story logic works than with the presence of particular supernatural elements, maybe?

Also, I've always been a fan of word art. I'm a big fan of the book Drawings on Writing (http://www.drawingsonwriting.org/) and my mom (a neuroscientist) always says that you need to stimulate more than just verbal synapses in the brain.

Oh that is a completely cool book! :heart: :drools: Thanks for the link :)

eta: Also, if no one is going to eat the squid, can I keep it?

The squid eats its paper hat and looks at you for more.

>>

[Liosse de Velishaf]

The squid had a paper hat? Is it rag paper or wood-pulp? I can't stand a squid who wears wood-pulp. I had to chop the last one up with a gladius and feed it to my pet shark, Jackson. Even after we adopted a baby platypus togther.

[Shweta]

The squid had a paper hat? Is it rag paper or wood-pulp? I can't stand a squid who wears wood-pulp. I had to chop the last one up with a gladius and feed it to my pet shark, Jackson. Even after we adopted a baby platypus togther.

Well, Esopha thought about giving her one,and in dream logic thinking about doing something causes it to happen.

I'm sure it was rag paper; wood pulp is too direct a production method. I think it may have been purple. But then, I'm in a purple sort of mood.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

Well, Esopha thought about giving her one,and in dream logic thinking about doing something causes it to happen.

I'm sure it was rag paper; wood pulp is too direct a production method. I think it may have been purple. But then, I'm in a purple sort of mood.


Does that mean I'm now an insterices mod? :hooray:

[Shweta]

Does that mean I'm now an insterices mod? :hooray:
:ROFL:
In your dreams, apparently.

[MacAllister]

I'll have the absinthe, please. But not the wormwood kind.

Glad y'all seem to be having fun. *g*

[Sharon Mock]

Just popping in to say hi... I may not be able to say much more until Monday. There's a local con coming up, and I've agreed to be on panels (eep!). And contribute to the art show (eep!). And bake cookies (... less eep).

So here, have some cookies while I'm scarce. They have coconut. And cashews. And cardamom. And Cirroteuthis.

[MacAllister]

And Kurt Vonnegut and Potlatch! (The whole idea of a potlatch being sort of interstitial makes me chuckle, I gotta admit.)

[Shweta]

And Kurt Vonnegut and Potlatch! (The whole idea of a potlatch being sort of interstitial makes me chuckle, I gotta admit.)
Will you be at Potlatch this year?

I'll be sick at home *sniffle* and missing all cons and panels.
And I was going to be on one with Sharon, too.

So... I'll be around.

[MacAllister]

I won't be there either, no. :(

[Shweta]

I won't be there either, no. :(

Aw. If you were going, I could have seen you there, if I was going.
Incidentally, the absinthe comes at the cost of a story. Tell us about your interstitiality :)

Alternatively, you could brave the mushroom people, but I don't recommend it.

[MacAllister]

Hmm. My interstitiality. I'm not sure about the best way to answer that, honestly. I've existed between all my life. Between real and not real, between here and there, between truth and fiction--and not in ways at all simple to explain.

I think I'll beg everyone's indulgence, do a rather uncharacteristic thing for me, and paste a chunk of WIP, as an answer to that challenge, actually. So do feel free to fast-forward.
Monday morning, a note from Marge lay on the top of my in-box pile, asking me to close out Alma Swenson's chart. I froze. Alma had died the night I sat at the Time-Out, drinking and flirting with Jen, under the scrutiny of a guy who might or might not be the ghost of my dead Uncle Cletus.

Actually, to say that Alma "died" is accurate, as far as it goes–-it just doesn't go far enough. Alma hung herself in her closet sometime after evening rounds. She used the belt from her most elegant dressing gown, and apparently managed to either slump or hold her feet up until she lost consciousness. A nurse's aide found her in the morning, just before breakfast.

I sat and stared at the forms I was supposed to fill out, closing her social services file. I didn't realize I was crying until tears splashed on the forms shaking in my hands, leaving wet blotches of bleeding and fuzzed blue ink on the paper.

I still don't know quite how it happened. I put Alma's file down on my cluttered desk. I stood up, lifted my jacket from the back of my chair, shoved my arms into the sleeves and walked out the front door, tears running down my face. One of the nurses called after me, "Matt? Matt, are you okay?" I didn't look back.

The thing is, Alma always knew where she was going. Even though she was forty years too late–-still she knew. She'd clump down the hall with her walker, stop staff-members one after another, and ask us when the bus to Philipsburg was scheduled to depart. She would hear the overhead PA speakers, paging someone to the phone or to a room or to the office, and think they were calling for passengers to board. Sometimes she'd swat me on the ass, wave a crumpled dollar bill at me, and wave a graceful, blue-veined hand toward her non-existent luggage. "Young man, would you just get my bags? Thank you so much."

What a strange place to spend the last years of your life. Wandering the halls of a distantly remembered bus terminal only in your mind, anxious about missing a bus that left 40 years ago. I always wondered about that long-ago trip to Philipsburg. What happened then? What had been so important she replayed it over and over in memory, through her fading and cross-circuiting Alzheimer's years?

I went home and poured three fingers of whiskey over a squat glass of ice and tried to think about Jen. I thought about her easy laugh. I thought about her tan face and her even, white teeth. I thought about kissing her, last night. I thought about what her strong, slender fingers would feel like, exploring my face. Erin's face kept forcing its way into my mental picture, though. I sat and stared out my window and sipped the whiskey. After a while, I got up and splashed more over the melting ice.

The skin on my face felt too tight. I couldn't get the muscles around my eyes and mouth to soften. I couldn't seem to focus my eyes. I kept catching myself staring into the middle-distance. And I ached inside. I just ached.

I shifted in my chair, and stared hard at the corner of the room, trying to conjure an image of Alma with her walker. If I was going to be haunted by Walt and Cletus, why not Alma too? But she didn't appear. I just wanted to hear her shaky old voice, soprano and clear. I wanted to ask her "why?" But she never came.

I stood and crossed to the door and opened it, looking down the empty stairs. Alma wasn't there, either. The thing is, I found myself looking down the steps, eyes narrowed, waiting for someone to appear. I expected someone to appear. The steps were empty, though.

Dawg whined high and plaintive. He waggled first one eyebrow, then the other. He stretched out his neck, laid his head on his paws, and continued to gaze at me.

I put my hands in my pockets and turned away from the door. A couple of steps took me into the middle of the floor, where I stood, staring at that stupid kitchen chair I still hadn't been able to bring myself to touch, to move back into the kitchen where it belonged.

My throat closed up tight, and I sank onto my hands and knees in the middle of the room. I wanted nothing so much as to curl into a ball and cry like a little kid, but I still fought back the burning in my eyes. Then it just crashed over me. All of it. Erin with Gina, leaving me here alone. Walt, gone forever. Alma, hanging in her closet by her dressing-gown belt, holding up her feet. What in God's name had she thought about, waiting for the dark to take her?

Then huge sobs gripped my chest and my body shook and I was trying not to gag on them. My eyes burned and my face was wet and I could feel heat radiating from my skin. I couldn't uncurl my body. I couldn't shut the tears off. Instead, I wrapped my arms around my waist and rocked back and forth, and cried.

"Fuckin' pussy," Cletus said from the recliner.

I raised my head and looked at him. His eyes glittered hot and angry. There he sat in my living room. Big as life, and looking very solid and real.

"Oh, get up off the fuckin' floor," he said, "and get me a beer."

[MacAllister]

Oh crap...I've killed Shweta's lovely thread. *g*

I think someone said something about absinthe?

[Shweta]

Heh, I was off showing Sharon the shiny buttons.

I like your WIP bit! I assume you're okay with it not being in a password-protected forum, etc, seeing as you run the joint... :D

And here you go!
http://www.alandia.de/Pics/buy-absinthe.jpg

Makes the heart grow fonder.

[MacAllister]

Heh. Yeah. No worries. The password thing, largely, is to set peoples' minds at ease, and to provide first-rights protection for short, complete works posted. This is a little bitty chunk out of the middle of some 40 or 50K words, so I'm not worried.

Thanks for the hospitality!

[Pthom]

It's cool stuff, Mac. I like Alma a lot. And Cletus. As for the protagonist? Not sure about him yet. I think maybe Cletus has him nailed. But mebbe not.

When do I get to read the rest?

[MacAllister]

Heh. I'll put you on my beta-reader list, Peter, when I finish the damned thing.

Shweta's question about my own interstitiality made me chuckle, though, because one of the things the very few people who've seen this have said repeatedly is, "Errr...but...it's not really horror, or urban fantasy, so what IS it, exactly?"

[Kitty Pryde]

whoof, thinking about things that exist but cannot be put in a category and why they cannot be put in said category makes Kitteh's brain hurt. But I like things that are strange better than I like things that are not strange.

*drops onto the sofa creating a cloud of dust, sneezes at all the dust as the sofa burbles and turns into a somewhat disgruntled green velveteen sofagator*

I was hoping to make a good impression on the squid, but obviously I have failed, cuz she's giving me the evil squid eye.

[beezle]

So this is the new cool kid's hangout, hrm?

[Alan Yee]

I'm confused. Is this the Interstices equivalent of the Cantina?

I like the title because it's a reference to Lady Churchill's Rosebud Wristlet.

[Gray Rose]

I'm confused. Is this the Interstices equivalent of the Cantina?

I like the title because it's a reference to Lady Churchill's Rosebud Wristlet.

Yes it is, only with gratuitous squid. :)

[Esopha]

We're reading surrealism in French class. The French plus surrealism hurts my head. But I don't think we're going to do much of it, so that's better than it could be.

I've always wondered about writers who put fake newspaper articles and bibliographies and word art and things... do they put all that in during their drafts or add it at the end?

[Gray Rose]

We're reading surrealism in French class. The French plus surrealism hurts my head. But I don't think we're going to do much of it, so that's better than it could be.

I've always wondered about writers who put fake newspaper articles and bibliographies and word art and things... do they put all that in during their drafts or add it at the end?

I haven't done too much of this yet, but definitely during, for me. It's so neat to do it, too.

[Cranky]

Speaking of adding things to a draft like fake clippings, etc., I have a stupid question.

I was working on a novel last year, and couldn't get it going the way I really wanted to (because I was trying to force it into an urban fantasy-ish mold, I see now). Originally, I wanted to add pictures (like PECS (http://www.difflearn.com/images/large/DRP080.jpg)) in place of text or dialogue for a character or at certain points, and then I decided that it wouldn't work -- people either wouldn't like it or "get" what I was doing. Is using stuff like that a little more typical for this kind of work?

In other words, can I do it, huh huh can I? :D

[Shweta]

I'm confused. Is this the Interstices equivalent of the Cantina?

Yeah, though I'm hoping it's more of a tea salon, that is, that we have a higher content to silly ratio. Though silly is always fun :)

I like the title because it's a reference to Lady Churchill's Rosebud Wristlet.
:thankyou:

Speaking of adding things to a draft like fake clippings, etc., I have a stupid question.

I was working on a novel last year, and couldn't get it going the way I really wanted to (because I was trying to force it into an urban fantasy-ish mold, I see now). Originally, I wanted to add pictures (like PECS (http://www.difflearn.com/images/large/DRP080.jpg)) in place of text or dialogue for a character or at certain points, and then I decided that it wouldn't work -- people either wouldn't like it or "get" what I was doing. Is using stuff like that a little more typical for this kind of work?

In other words, can I do it, huh huh can I? :D

Yes! You can do anything the story calls for, and worry about marketing it later :) Because there is too a market for the offbeat things, even if it is smaller; but more importantly because it is your damn novel.

:)

[Esopha]

What I think a problem is for me is that I have issues deciding how to approach any kind of unconventional narrative. Once you decide that you're not going to follow convention, all these possibilities open up, and they're all shiny and whatever, and of course I want to pick up as many of the shineys as I can and play with them all.

I think this is going to be particularly difficult for my latest project. I see two ways the novel could happen right now, and either way is going to be interesting. The first way would be a more straight-forward structure, a first-person narrative that develops a more stark distinction between dreamlike existence and reality as the novel goes on -- sort of taking the "character's mind is deteriorating and the narrative does too" type of thing. This way would follow the story of one main character to its full conclusion and concentrate more on the play between reliable and unreliable narration.

On the other hand, I could write the novel in a cyclic way, revolving around two characters, one in period, one in modern times (sort of -- this one is really hard to explain), and tie in the modern story with the period story. And telling the story this way means I have to choose between dividing the novel into two parts or interspersing the two characters' narration throughout the book.

Also I have no idea how character two would express himself. That's a big fat craggily problem right there. Probably he would use the pictures and word art/fun with spacebar texts I've been thinking about.

But really I have no idea.

*is thinking aloud*

So anyway. I was wondering how everyone else decides how to approach a project. Is it mostly trial and error? Should I write a few sample chapters? Draw some stuff? Write the novel as I originally conceived it and then go crazy in edits?

[Liosse de Velishaf]

A little question on influence:

Would you say you think interstitial has a wider range of mediums and inspiration to draw on? I think I use a wide range of inspirations. Poems, for instance, are something that I've used for more "Interstitial" projects than for say, sci-fi stories. I tend to get the majority of genre ideas from novels (which is my main prose medium), whether in the genre or outside. But cross medium works, not so much. Especially if they aren't narrative in form.

What about you?

[Shweta]

A little question on influence:

Would you say you think interstitial has a wider range of mediums and inspiration to draw on? I think I use a wide range of inspirations. Poems, for instance, are something that I've used for more "Interstitial" projects than for say, sci-fi stories. I tend to get the majority of genre ideas from novels (which is my main prose medium), whether in the genre or outside. But cross medium works, not so much. Especially if they aren't narrative in form.

What about you?

I dunno, really. I may go the other way. Anything I'm experiencing can trigger anything, and in general my story ideas aren't directly triggered by other stories, but I wonder if I feel more open to playing with form when I think the meaning will come easily clear, and I work within known forms more when I need them to work as scaffolding?

I'm guessing here...

How 'bout everyone else?

[Cranky]

Yes! You can do anything the story calls for, and worry about marketing it later :) Because there is too a market for the offbeat things, even if it is smaller; but more importantly because it is your damn novel.

:)

Yeah, that was my big problem, I think: not knowing if there would be a market for something like that. Good to know that it's at least worth a try.

Might have to resurrect that old thing after all. :)

[Shweta]

So anyway. I was wondering how everyone else decides how to approach a project. Is it mostly trial and error? Should I write a few sample chapters? Draw some stuff? Write the novel as I originally conceived it and then go crazy in edits?

I, uh, tend to flail and talk about it a lot until something goes click. Stories don't come to me without voice/POV; once I know those, they seldom change and never much, so far...

Leaving aside difficulty/don't know, does one of these approaches feel right? Because remember it's only a draft; if what feels right now turns out not to be, well, you'd have to write a second draft anyway. Nothing's wasted.

[ZakJarvis]

Cranky: I added scones :)

Query: Which is cause and which effect? Are wide readers more likely to genre-bend, or are genre-benders more likely to read widely? Or do they engage in some diabolical positive-reinforcement loop?

I was a wide reader long before I considered writing. I'm an even more omnivorous consumer of film. What I want out of stories is things I haven't seen before, so I read Stephen King and Edgar Rice Burroughs and Salman Rushdie and Elizabeth Hand and Robert Walser and Steve Brust and Jose Luis Borges and Carlo Ginzberg and David Bohm.

Ultimately, I blame two things. First, I changed schools a lot as a kid, so I was permanently new. I became very comfortable being an outsider, and I've stayed outside because I like the view. Second, I started reading Alan Moore when I was 12.

That latter might have more to do with it than the former, just maybe.

Writing came late for me.

[Dawnstorm]

I'm a brooder. Stories have long gestation periods, and sometimes they merge. Few things I actually end-up writing have a single inspiration; but sometimes I imporvise stories on title alone.

One of the oddest experiences: Thinking about Oscar Wilde and glam rock (before Velvet Goldmine came out, I might add), I came up with the line "The Tropical Fish and the Ballroom Queen". At that time, I was handwriting stories, then typing them out on a mechanical typewriter (always editing them in the process). This story was typed directly into the typewriter. Its opening image is a huge wall-mirror dance-sinking into the sea. I still don't know how I came up with that image. I didn't know that would be my opening image until I typed it. The story ended up part fairy tale, part slice-of-life, with the mirror reaching into the slice-of-life - maybe transforming it slightly. Both stories have the same thematic ending; the fish envying the Ballroom Queen, the Ballroom Queen envying tropical fish (in general). They never meet. It's one of my best (surviving) teen-efforts, I think (still written in German). It's also probably the most up-beat story I've ever written.

[Shweta]

oooh.


So is it just me, or is one of the few things these between-genres all have in common being a penchant for downer stories?
I like happy endings..

[Dawnstorm]

So is it just me, or is one of the few things these between-genres all have in common being a penchant for downer stories?

Well some of the fish-contemporaries include:

"The Golden Reaper": Award Show for Suicide of the Year. After great success ratings topple, as more and more viewers wish to win a prize. Last show ends with creator and host's on-screen suicide.

"Limousine": A straight road spans the entire globe. Vampire Lady holed up in a Limousine, always going forward, going nowhere. Feeds on hitchhikers (first their stories, then their blood). Wants to see the sea, but road tunnels under long before you can even smell it. Refers to her Limousine as her "vessel" (triple pun). Very lonely. Her human chauffeur delights in insisting on propriety and is always very formal (even when he's cleaning up her messes, which embarrasses her), thus tormenting her.

Yup, I'm pretty downbeat as a writer.

I like happy endings..

Another contemporary story I wrote is about a hunter who pays an elf to track a unicorn to shoot it (for sport). When he finally sees one, he can't bring himself to do it. I hate that story, though not necessarily because of the happy ending. Might have more to do with the utter cliché. ;)

Most of my current stuff has middle-ground endings (situation's changed, character's too shocked to see the opportunities. Yet.)

[Shweta]

I do like ambivalent endings too.

I just am torn with this sort of writing between being fascinated by it and feeling I belong here, and being way out of my happy fluffy comfort zone.

As a writer I think being out of my comfort zone is a good thing, but there is the voice saying what am I doing here, I'm not very weird, I like happy fluffy things I am such a fraud...

[Dawnstorm]

As a writer I think being out of my comfort zone is a good thing, but there is the voice saying what am I doing here, I'm not very weird, I like happy fluffy things I am such a fraud...

That's the silly thing about "rules" of any sort. I like happy fluffy stuff, too, if I can buy it. ( Totoro! :D ) I'm just no good at writing it.

I think authors tend to have self-blindness. Your experience is well... what you're living with 24 hours a day. The same is not true for anybody else. (Ever have this happen to you? All your clever lines go un-noticed while your throwaway lines attract ecstatic praise, and you're all: "Huh? What? I was going to delete that!" ;) )

[Shweta]

I think authors tend to have self-blindness. Your experience is well... what you're living with 24 hours a day. The same is not true for anybody else. (Ever have this happen to you? All your clever lines go un-noticed while your throwaway lines attract ecstatic praise, and you're all: "Huh? What? I was going to delete that!" ;) )

Happened with a poem I wrote at 4am and posted to lj, with no idea if it even made sense, recently. I'm still going :eek: a bit over that.

[Esopha]

I do like ambivalent endings too.

I just am torn with this sort of writing between being fascinated by it and feeling I belong here, and being way out of my happy fluffy comfort zone.

As a writer I think being out of my comfort zone is a good thing, but there is the voice saying what am I doing here, I'm not very weird, I like happy fluffy things I am such a fraud...

*points to Little Cities*

That book is about gopher-fairies. There don't seem to be a lot of people who "get" what I'm trying to do. I think it's the juxtaposition of gopher-fairies and political insurrection and... er... psychedelic substances. Coupled with a twelve year-old protag.

So I guess what I'm saying is, "We can be happy and cheerful together! :)" I like happy endings. I also like sad endings. And I like ambivalent endings.

I like endings that are done well.

Also:

I, uh, tend to flail and talk about it a lot until something goes click. Stories don't come to me without voice/POV; once I know those, they seldom change and never much, so far...

Leaving aside difficulty/don't know, does one of these approaches feel right? Because remember it's only a draft; if what feels right now turns out not to be, well, you'd have to write a second draft anyway. Nothing's wasted.

I'm probably going to end up doing some flailing.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

oooh.


So is it just me, or is one of the few things these between-genres all have in common being a penchant for downer stories?
I like happy endings..


Several of mine have sad endings. Maybe most...

In one, all five protagonists die.

[SmallThing]

Hi.

I've come here half a dozen times to post an intro, only to have life jump in my lap and tell me I haven't time for such things. I thought I'd try again.

As a child I was a lonely and omnivorous reader. As a writer I'm something of a nomad. My novels aren't particularly interstitial. They just aren't comfortable in a marketing category. Lately I've been realizing that things get far more interesting when I play with short fiction. I have a stern internal critic who likes convention and thrives at novel length but doesn't quite make it to the party when I write in short bursts.

I like Shweta's anecdote about her writing relating to who she is. My life clearly influences my interest in boundaries and reality and mental illness.

Hmm, I have nothing profound to add to any of the conversations. I'm afraid my stuff is not cheery. My endings are, at best, bittersweet.

I'll come back when I have more insightful things to say.

[Esopha]

*bangs pots in the thread* Wake up, wake up!

I've decided that since I've decided that my work doesn't really fit into new weird, slipstream, magic realism or surrealism, I will have to invent my own genre.

It is called "sophawonk." It is composed of whatever I want to stick in there.

I'm pretty sure I won't be able to use it during the querying process, but that's okay. It's called "sophawonk" because I think the word "wonky" is a pretty apt description of stuff I like to write.

Besides "quirky" -- but "quirky" isn't quirky enough for me!

[Sharon Mock]

I'm back. The con was awesome, but it was also three days of getting up on panels and pretending I know what I'm talking about, and of talking to people I don't know. But I have sat and sipped my tentacle tea, and I'm feeling quite a bit more human now.

Welcome, SmallThing!

[Shweta]

Awesome, Esopha, can we all steal that? I'll write Shwetawaonk!

[Sharon Mock]

Mockwonk? Sounds like a duck with a cold.

[Shweta]

http://www.stjamesstratford.org/docs/image%20files/sick%20duck.JPG

[Shweta]

The squid is now wearing a pedant hat of marvelous design.


>>

[Esopha]

Mockwonk sounds like a cartoon sound effect.

As in, "mockwoooonnnkkk." *Daffy Duck is hit over the head with an anvil*

Yes?

[Gray Rose]

We need to rename this thread Lady Churchill's Hospice of Squid

[Ruv Draba]

So is it just me, or is one of the few things these between-genres all have in common being a penchant for downer stories?
I like happy endings..I like stories that keep going after they end. If they do that it's because they've taken root in my brain. If that happens then why should I care where the author happened to end his contribution?

In fairness, happy-ending stories don't do it for me as often as bittersweet, sad or frustrating stories. Perhaps it's because happy endings discharge their tension and I need some left over to keep the story going after it's run out of print.

[Shadow Dragon]

I think happy endings should only come when the character was put through hell for the rest of the story. So that way I can actually feel good for the character getting there happily ever after, so to speak.

[Pagey's_Girl]

I like upbeat endings. They're sorely lacking in real life.

A friend of mine was complaining that I "always make the monsters the good guys when they're supposed to be the bad guys." Only because people scare me more than any otherworldly creature ever could...

[Sharon Mock]

I think it's a lot easier to earn a downer ending than an upbeat one. We're all comfortable with tragedy, with a fatal flaw leading inexorably to a bad end. Avoiding that bad end, on the other hand, requires a lot of things to go just right.

Of course, I might just be better at writing the swan-dive-into-concrete ending than at hopeful notes. I have been trying lately, though... :D

[Kitty Pryde]

This Is Just To Say

I have been eaten
by the squid
that was in
the icebox

and which
was probably
saving
you for breakfast.

Forgive me
it was so vicious
so slimy
and so cold.

and if you don't get it go here (http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15535).

got this from here (http://edgeofthewest.wordpress.com/2009/03/12/this-is-just-to-say/) (and it has a creative commons license (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/)).

[Shweta]

and to say that health is clobbering me just now, and I'll try to be back soon, sorry :e2cry:

I like stories that keep going after they end. If they do that it's because they've taken root in my brain. If that happens then why should I care where the author happened to end his contribution?

Karen Joy Fowler talks about ending stories on an inhalation rather than an exhalation, and I've found it a really helpful way to think aboutit.

In fairness, happy-ending stories don't do it for me as often as bittersweet, sad or frustrating stories. Perhaps it's because happy endings discharge their tension and I need some left over to keep the story going after it's run out of print.

They don't always, though. I don't think they should. Not all tension is sad/bad, and so long as there's that inhale, it doesn't have to be a gasp of pain.
If you feel like having a look, I'd be curious as to what you think about my story in Strange Horizons (http://www.strangehorizons.com/2009/20090316/nira-and-i-f.shtml).
(I don't mean to pimp shamelessly -- it's on topic, as it's one of my happier endings but I don't think I discharge tension. But I gotta admit it feels good to say "my story in Strange Horizons :D)

I think happy endings should only come when the character was put through hell for the rest of the story. So that way I can actually feel good for the character getting there happily ever after, so to speak.

I think it's a lot easier to earn a downer ending than an upbeat one. We're all comfortable with tragedy, with a fatal flaw leading inexorably to a bad end. Avoiding that bad end, on the other hand, requires a lot of things to go just right.

Agree with both of these sort of. You really do have to earn happy endings. But I think it's possible to earn them without the whole rest of the story being hell, so long as hell is at least looming in the spaces, and I think it has to come down to character choice rather than things going right. Thinking about the... two... happy endings I've written, they're not happy because the troubles are all gone, they're happy because the character(s) is(are) going to deal better with them than before. Y'know?

Of course, I might just be better at writing the swan-dive-into-concrete ending than at hopeful notes. I have been trying lately, though... :D

:ROFL:
Adore that phrasing. And -- that's a genre for ya. Swan-dive-into-concrete-punk.

I like upbeat endings. They're sorely lacking in real life.
Indeed -- in real life, endings are generally not happy :)
But we do get happy points. It's just, the story keeps going if it's real life.

A friend of mine was complaining that I "always make the monsters the good guys when they're supposed to be the bad guys." Only because people scare me more than any otherworldly creature ever could...

I have this categorization of people into the ones who find cities scary and the ones who find small towns scary -- it patterns with whether they're more scared of The Unknown Other, or of The Group.

For me it's the small towns that are scary. I am the Other. And I have often been the Group's victim.

and if you don't get it go here (http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15535).

got this from here (http://edgeofthewest.wordpress.com/2009/03/12/this-is-just-to-say/) (and it has a creative commons license (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/)).

*dies laughing*
*is dead now*

[Alan Yee]

and if you don't get it go here (http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15535).

got this from here (http://edgeofthewest.wordpress.com/2009/03/12/this-is-just-to-say/) (and it has a creative commons license (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/)).

:roll:

Maybe we should all start a squid-punk movement.

[Kitty Pryde]

Dear Interstitchy friends,
There was a sale on clay at the craft store so I made you a squid. He looks small, but in fact it's just a really large hand.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2671/3/51/218368/n218368_35339367_8251620.jpg

[maxmordon]

Hello people, finally the section for the ones who don't know what the heck they are writing...

[Dawnstorm]

and to say that health is clobbering me just now, and I'll try to be back soon, sorry :e2cry:

Get better soon. But don't stress yourself out trying to get better. I heared that has the opposite result.

If you feel like having a look, I'd be curious as to what you think about my story in Strange Horizons (http://www.strangehorizons.com/2009/20090316/nira-and-i-f.shtml).Yay, a story in Strange Horizons! *Goes reading*

...

*Comes back from reading*











Great story. I love the ending, especially the last line. You have a straight-forward surface plot of mist vs. sun (and enshrined law), with an ending that is basically a coming-out experience that co-incides with an open resistance; but Hemal's theme undercuts the straight-forward and simple metaphor subtly (Nira's key line "I don't believe it," is an example of that). The mist can protect. And sing!











There was a sale on clay at the craft store so I made you a squid. He looks small, but in fact it's just a really large hand.

Oooh! S/he looks dreamy. Does s/he miss the sea?

Hello people, finally the section for the ones who don't know what the heck they are writing...

Or for people who know exactly what they're writing but have a hard time communicating it to others in less words than the story takes. :o

[maxmordon]

Or for people who know exactly what they're writing but have a hard time communicating it to others in less words than the story takes. :o

True, each case is special, I assume :)

[Shweta]

Get better soon. But don't stress yourself out trying to get better. I heared that has the opposite result.
Thank you :)
Trying to manage that.

Yay, a story in Strange Horizons! *Goes reading*

<spoilers cut>
Thank you! :Hug2:
Vry glad you liked it :)

[eveningstar]

Or for people who know exactly what they're writing but have a hard time communicating it to others in less words than the story takes. :o

Oh, yay, somewhere I can belong with my half in second person, non-linear, novelesque collection of vignettes.

(And my WIP I seem to have written myself into, Charlie Kaufman in Adaptation style.)

*pours tea*

*knits mittens for the squid*

[Sharon Mock]

Aw, adorable squiddy!

And eveningstar, I'd say you'll fit right in here. :)

[maxmordon]

Oh, yay, somewhere I can belong with my half in second person, non-linear, novelesque collection of vignettes.

(And my WIP I seem to have written myself into, Charlie Kaufman in Adaptation style.)

*pours tea*

*knits mittens for the squid*

Say hi to the squid and your twin sibling, will ya? Where are the biscuits?

[Sharon Mock]

Those of you with more affinity for cloth than clay might want to try your hand at this (http://style.pwblogs.com/2009/02/12/fridiy-8-foot-giant-squid-pillow/).

[Shweta]

So I just found somewhat interstitial crack (http://www.shayara.com/drupal/?q=que) on the internet.

More in format than topic, though it's nice to see someone playing with sometimes-healthy (depnding on the characters concerned) poly situations in spec fic.

I am loving the format -- a main story thread with illustrations, hyperlinked off-the-path segments that fill things in, a password-protected bit that you have to solve a puzzle to get to, a linky map...

This feeling of pieces of narrative falling together puzzle-like is something I love about Mary Anne Mohanraj's Bodies in Motion. Maybe it just works best in stories about relationships?

[eveningstar]

Danke schoen for the welcome! The novelish thing I just sent through a few beta readers came back with several variations on "I've never read anything like it" which is flattering if not terribly helpful for catagorization. I've taken to describing it as something that would be steampunk if it had more steam and were slightly more punk.

So I just found somewhat interstitial crack (http://www.shayara.com/drupal/?q=que) on the internet.

Shira's actually a friend of a friend of mine. I've seen Shayara before but haven't taken the time to thoroughly explore it. I love the idea, though, and should probably put it on my to-read list.

[Shweta]

Shira's actually a friend of a friend of mine. I've seen Shayara before but haven't taken the time to thoroughly explore it. I love the idea, though, and should probably put it on my to-read list.

How very cool. She seems like a lovely person as well as an extremely talented writer. I found her online work via the story she recently published in Chizine.

[Shweta]

Bump. Sharon's posted an erudite essay on the Interstitiality of Twilight (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136800). Discuss*.


* Extra credit for:
- discussing the interstitiality of discussing Meyer as interstitial
- working vampire squid or weresquid into the argument
- anything painted with a very fine camel-hair brush

[AMCrenshaw]

Stopped by tequila. Left salon. Left the city. Be back when the epidemic is taken care of.



AMC



* I might be lying. I might be one of you now.

[Esopha]

I've just bought Jeff Vandermeer's Secret Life. Apparently the publisher, Prime Books, has a headquarters about twenty minutes away from me.

I wonder if I could wrangle a summer internship...

[Kitty Pryde]

Hello wondrous interstitial folks! I wanted to invite you all to our weekly Science Fiction/Fantasy chat this week. We are talking about interstitial stuff as it relates to SF/F. Specifically Slipstream, New Weird, Magical Realism, and anything else that is sort of but not quite SF/F. We would love to have some of you join us to discuss and share. Chat is on Thursday nights at 9:00 pm EST.

You can chat using any IRC client or by clicking "Visit the AW Chat Room" link at the top of all the AW forum pages. And feel free to PM me if you have any questions about chat or getting into the chat room.

Hope to see you there!

[Dichroic]

Is it just me or are there subgenres emerging within interstitiality? (Is that an oxymoron?) I've recently acquired copies of (actually ebooks of) both the Lady Churchill's Rosebud Wristlet Anthology and Delia Sherman's Interstitial Anthology. (Sorry if I get exact titles wrong, but I'm being lazy.) The two collections have very distinct flavors - that is, each one has a flavor running through it and they're very different from each other. In this case, I'm finding the Rosebud Wristlet fairly difficult to get through, though of course some parts are better than others, but I'm rather enjoying Delia Sherman's collection. (I suspect part of the problem with the Rosebud Wristlet actually is the ebook format - probably all the interspersed drink recipes would be a lot less annoying if they were set off on separate pages. Interesting, because it's the first time I've found the format made that much difference.)

One of my favorite books in the world is the most interstitial category-defying thing I know, but it's not fiction: Douglas Hofstadter's Le Ton Beau de Marot. Unfortunately I don't think there will ever be a subgenre of stuff like it!

[Polenth]

A thought that came to me... we don't appear to have a bragging thread? The shout box is more for stuff in progress, rather than stuff sold/published.

[Gray Rose]

Polenth - I wonder if we have enough to brag about at this point... But if you have a braggable item, by all means let's roll!

[Polenth]

Polenth - I wonder if we have enough to brag about at this point... But if you have a braggable item, by all means let's roll!

I don't. And if I did, I have an allergy to starting threads. But if someone else does they might think "oh, someone mentioned about starting a thread".

(Though it might be interesting to backdate brags, seeing as the forum is new? Has anyone had any luck getting their odd stories published?)

[Kitty Pryde]

Anybody seen "Conjunctions" issue 52 (http://www.conjunctions.com/justout.htm)? Looks suspiciously interstitial. Not sure what 'postfantasy' means. The description, from the site:

CONJUNCTIONS:52
Betwixt the Between
Spring 2009
Postfantasy fictions that begin with the premise that the unfamiliar or liminal really constitutes a solid ground on which to walk.

Joyce Carol Oates, Jeff Vandermeer, China Mieville, Jonathan Carroll, other smart people.
I'm trying to figure out how to just buy this issue.

[Gray Rose]

I don't. And if I did, I have an allergy to starting threads. But if someone else does they might think &quot;oh, someone mentioned about starting a thread&quot;.

(Though it might be interesting to backdate brags, seeing as the forum is new? Has anyone had any luck getting their odd stories published?)

I did earlier this year, but now I'm in the middle of drought. Nothing old sells and nothing new gets written.

[beezle]

Hey good people. I've been scarce lately, but thought I'd have a look in.

So, did anyone here ever read my Wonder of Wonders short? Rejected today, after almost nine months of waiting. Apparently they liked it, weren't sure they liked the ending, stuffed it in the 'maybe' pile... where it stayed until the magazine folded.

Maybe on to Shimmer next.

[AMCrenshaw]

sincerely,
AMC


Haitian Martini, please. Be sure to bury my other body alive. Thank you, dearest.

[Kitty Pryde]

Mythcon (http://www.mythsoc.org/mythcon/40/) at UCLA? Anyone going? I saw our fearless mods' names on the registered list. Anyone else going?

Anyone who's gone before: is it awesome? I was thinking of going on the Saturday only. It is awfully close to my home.

And it would be pleasing to be around people IRL who don't go into a fatal paroxysm of eye-rolling and snarkery whenever I mention reading or writing fantasy stories. Also people who IRL who know that fantasy novels/shorts aren't required to have a. a dragon, b. a guy with a magic sword, c. a busty princess in need of a rescuing, and d. an elf, or possibly a fairy. Yes, that would make me happy.

[Shweta]

I'm going! I've been before!
It's awesome.

And I think the Sat is when I'm co-modding the YA fiction roundtable.

Mythcon (http://www.mythsoc.org/mythcon/40/) at UCLA? Anyone going? I saw our fearless mods' names on the registered list. Anyone else going?

Anyone who's gone before: is it awesome? I was thinking of going on the Saturday only. It is awfully close to my home.

And it would be pleasing to be around people IRL who don't go into a fatal paroxysm of eye-rolling and snarkery whenever I mention reading or writing fantasy stories. Also people who IRL who know that fantasy novels/shorts aren't required to have a. a dragon, b. a guy with a magic sword, c. a busty princess in need of a rescuing, and d. an elf, or possibly a fairy. Yes, that would make me happy.

[Alessandra Kelley]

Have fun, Kitty. I'm not a Mythcon-goer, but I agree that being around people who understand fantasy/sf is very relaxing and stimulating both.

[Kitty Pryde]

Hehe, that was two summers ago! :D

I'd love to go back tho. I met Shweta and Sharon while I was there and they were super awesome!

[Alessandra Kelley]

Gah! I missed the date on the post! I'm sorry (blush).

Glad you liked it.