Prose + poetry

[Gray Rose]

I'd like to start a conversation about prose and poetry, and how they do and do not mix.

Once upon a time I asked this question on the poetry forum here on AW:

"What is the difference between a prose poem and flash fiction?"

JRH answered:

For myself, I don't think there is such a thing as a "Prose Poem". That's a contradiction of terms.

(the full conversation is here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90349&highlight=prose+poetry)).

At that time I was wondering what to do with a poem prose poem flash fiction creature of mine. Eventually it sold to Star*line's special Prose Poetry issue, but that alone did not qualify it as prose poetry - the piece got a favorable review from Jess Wick, one of the Goblin Fruit editors, who nevertheless did not consider it a prose poem (http://mer-moon.livejournal.com/42764.html). And here's an excerpt from that review:

I maintain there is a difference between a prose poem and poetic prose, and that sometimes the lines blur, that, very briefly, a passage in a novel can become a prose poem, although a stanza in a poem should never become straight prose.

Another editor, as I've mentioned earlier somewhere, told me not to embed poems in prose.

I'm curious as to your experiences, thoughts and opinions about mixing poetry and prose, poetic prose, prose poems, and other issues on this topic.

[TheRightEyedDeer]

I combine prose and poetry a lot in my writing. Those pieces are hard to find a home for, though.

[Medievalist]

It is absolutely common to mix poetry--metered poetry--and prose in Old Norse and Old and Middle Irish literature, and it's not unknown in medieval Welsh.

It is generally seen as a characteristic of earlier I.E. literatures.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

There's a japanese form called the haibun that is a combination of poetry and prose. The "prose" can also come in the form of a prose poem. I think it was extant in 17th century Japan.

[Dawnstorm]

At that time I was wondering what to do with a poem prose poem flash fiction creature of mine. Eventually it sold to Star*line's special Prose Poetry issue, but that alone did not qualify it as prose poetry - the piece got a favorable review from Jess Wick, one of the Goblin Fruit editors, who nevertheless did not consider it a prose poem (http://mer-moon.livejournal.com/42764.html).

The trouble is that the review doesn't give much of a hint what makes a prose poem a prose poem. There's the reading-out-loud test and the hunch that it's got to do with rhythm... and that's it. But what sort of rhythms qualify?

And even if it's about the rhythm: the reading-out-loud test isn't infallible. When I was translating poetry, I often stumbled over odd lines. Turns out there was reading (line stress) I missed. It's by no means easy to exorcise your intuitive way to read a line and then detect the one that makes the poem more... poetic. But such hiccups are easier to spot when there's a meter to help you along. Prose poems tend more towards free verse (but they're not really verse, or they wouldn't be "prose" poems).

I doubt I'm much help, here, but I do remember that my complete Oscar Wilde places his "poems in prose" with the fairy tales rather than with his poetry. Which may be a decision based on content rather than form.

I have no experiences with embedded poetry. The closest thing I remember reading is Brian Aldiss' Barefoot in the Head, which has related poems after each chapter, but I found them added for effect rather than essential to the book.

[Shweta]

It is absolutely common to mix poetry--metered poetry--and prose in Old Norse and Old and Middle Irish literature, and it's not unknown in medieval Welsh.

It is generally seen as a characteristic of earlier I.E. literatures.

Right, and so it's odd to write anything based on such literature that sticks to straight prose (Rose's mix, for example, is a take on Old Norse literature). But modern sensibilities seem to place such work between...

[Medievalist]

Right, and so it's odd to write anything based on such literature that sticks to straight prose (Rose's mix, for example, is a take on Old Norse literature). But modern sensibilities seem to place such work between...

There's Tolkien, who mixes them all the time.

[Gray Rose]

There's Tolkien, who mixes them all the time.

Guess where he got the idea :D

Really, it would be impossible to cut the poetry out of an Old Norse- inspired story about the evolution of poetic forms. I'm lucky that it found a home. And yet I was very much taken aback by this criticism... It's not the first time I heard something like this, either.

[Shweta]

There's Tolkien, who mixes them all the time.

Modern sensibilities often seem to stick on Tolkien too, of course. I dunno how many "Tolkien is too wordy" threads I've seen on AW...

(btw, Lisa, Rose, do you guys know you have fields/specialties in common, and you both know the things you're telling each other way better than any of us hanging out here with :popcorn:?)

[badducky]

I am always disappointed by judgement of a work of art not by what is present in the art, but what structures are imposed upon the art by outside forces. Alas, I am guilty of it from time to time, as we all are. Still, I don't think the definition of a "prose poem" is as clearly defined as, for instance a "sestina" or a "commercial fiction novel".

My favorite prose poems came from Baudelaire, but I've never read them in French.

[LaceWing]

This exploration of prose poetry works for me, in which Shumate riffs on Stafford.
http://webdelsol.com/Double_Room/issue_six/David_Shumate.htm

[Kuroyagi]

In my experience lots of prose mixes well with a bit of interspersed poetry but not so well the other way around...

[Sheila Muirenn]

Descriptive poetry. I call it descriptive poetry. Not correct, but who cares in experimental fiction?

When the action and meter change, then descriptive poetry happens.

It is important that the poetry take the reader further inside the story, rather than take them out of the narrative altogether.


http://chimeracritiques.com

[badducky]

Would you consider "The Last Voyage of the Ghost Ship" by Gabriel Garcia Marquez to be a prose poem? I read that again last night, and it occurred to me that it might as well be.

The walls are fuzzy.