The categorization trap?

[Shweta]

So one thing that worries me is the trap of self-defining as "interstitial and therefore not genre", or as "slipstream and therefore not SF", or whatever. And the related trap of trying to be weird for the sake of weird, to fit into a weird group, rather than writing one's own stories no matter what they are.

Because humans are categorizers, and social mammals, and there's always the risk of trying to adapt to a group.
....Or maybe that's just me, being oversensitive to sometimes-imaginary social pressures...

Anyway, it's one of the risks I see of calling ourselves a group, and while I think the benefits of having this space to talk far outweigh the risks, I wanted to bring it up. What do you guys think?

[Liosse de Velishaf]

I enjoy this section, and the people in it, but just as "Sci-fi" and "Fantasy" didn't constrain my imagination, neither will I let "Interstitial" define borders or lock doors. Except in responding to the poll of course. Hail the Guardian of the Interstices! All power to the Squid!

[Aschenbach]

Anyway, it's one of the risks I see of calling ourselves a group, and while I think the benefits of having this space to talk far outweigh the risks, I wanted to bring it up. What do you guys think?

Well, you started this forum, I presume, to give like-minded people their own space. This implies there wasn't adequate provision in other genre forums for the discussions you want to have.

By making a seperate forum you make another group. I don't see anything wrong with that. Don't angst about nebulous risks. Otherwise, it might seem like a pretty po-faced group. That isn't much fun.

[beezle]

Well, you started this forum, I presume, to give like-minded people their own space. This implies there wasn't adequate provision in other genre forums for the discussions you want to have.

By making a seperate forum you make another group. I don't see anything wrong with that. Don't angst about nebulous risks. Otherwise, it might seem like a pretty po-faced group. That isn't much fun.

No, I don't think so. If the purpose of this forum is just to "make another group", then it will only end up creating more cracks to fall into. Kind of defeats the purpose, no? You also assume this new forum IS a place for "like-minded people". And, you know, I don't think that's the case and I hope that's not the case. There's got to be room in the places between genres for more than one viewpoint on what belongs and doesn't belong in those places.

[Shweta]

I'm with Beezle.

This room's for the others, for people to talk across gaps and about differences, and one of the real dangers is that we assume, since it's a room, it must be for "a group", and silence other voices.

[Dawnstorm]

And yet, pretty much all the terms we've got here are originally names for movements. (Except "Slipstream", which was originally a book basket for readers.) There have always been freestylers (heck, there has been a brief movement called "Freestyle SF" fondend by Rudy Rucker and Marc Laidlaw...). Certain regularities will emerge, but as long the squid's not a bouncer, we should be all right. I'll certainly talk about anything that interests me. Open door.

[Izz]

I'm with Beezle and Shweta, too.

I voted for the Squid, but that really couldn't be helped. Its tentacles are so mesmerizing.

If i had voted seriously i would have voted 'yes, there is a danger of becoming cliquey/defining exactly what is and what isn't interstitial', which, as Shweta mentioned, then leads to the trap of people writing stories to be 'cool', for want of a better description, which in turn narrows their creative focus, rather than expanding it by them writing naturally and experimenting when they're comfortable doing so.

The ideal behind this forum excites me, and i'm looking forward to following the different twists and turns it takes. Yeah, i reckon there'll be times when i don't agree with what someone is saying, but that doesn't mean (hopefully) that i'll get my knickers in a twist over it. I also reckon there'll be times when people show up who're enamored with their own voice and think every word in every sentence they write is pure genius. But hey, that's interesting in itself too, isn't it?

Most of my writing isn't particularly interstitial, i don't think, but i love watching and listening to people create (artistically of course, not voyeuristically :tongue) and discovering how they do so. And i think this forum will do a great job of allowing people to express those slightly more ... 'non-standard' creative processes than some of the other forums might.

Humans like naming things, humans like categorizing things, humans like pushing creative boundaries, humans like discussion. I'm sure our mods here will do a great job of making sure we don't end up fighting each other too much.

/thus endeth the waffle. I shall go back to my mostly-lurking :)

[Shweta]

*trips Iz over, points* "Dawnstorm did it."







...Oh you said we were supposed to stop fights.
I should read more closely.

[Izz]

Oh noes, i has fallen into one of the cracks between genres!

Am sinking, sinnnnnnnkinnnnnnnng.

Oh wait, no i'm not.

*looks embarrassed*

[AMCrenshaw]

My only nit (I voted for squid too!) is that genres are self-defined in the writing. As for being "cliquey," we can easily avoid that by remembering that interstitial isn't some Pure and Perfect Genre written by Pure and Perfect men and women. If it sounds absurd that's because it is.

If we define interstitial, though, it makes it easier to communicate about it, to ask the more finely directed questions, and share answers which will matter. I get a certain feeling that part of the interstitial charm is that it is slick, and manages quite easily to slip its wrists through any shackle-- and the tighter the shackle the greater the resistance...

AMC

[HeronW]

cross genres, cross dressing, crossed wires, just don't cross the streams of thse nifty Ghostbusters guns or the squid will explode...

On the other hand every genre started out as 'rigidly defined' ex SF then meandered off into kissing cousin genres like steam punk, urban fantasy, etc. isn't it sort of like a horse or squid of another color that fits as well as the person writing it?

[Esopha]

I don't think there's a problem with having an "everything else that's kinda odd" category, although I would submit that the proliferation of squid-lovin' is probably the beginnings of group-think.

But I would hope that people here are secure enough in their writing and themselves to let other people experiment in ways that may be unconventionally unconventional.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

People form cliques. It's unavoidable. But that doesn't mean you can't have a more open clique. As long as we don't all become concentrated in this one section, then interaction will keep the "group" fresh. The benefit of having so many tentacles is that you can dip them into all different places. I don't plan to abandon the SFF section just because I've come here. I'm sure we all have plenty of diverse interests.

I half-agree with Ausenbach. "Shit happens", as they say.

[Sharon Mock]

I get a certain feeling that part of the interstitial charm is that it is slick, and manages quite easily to slip its wrists through any shackle-- and the tighter the shackle the greater the resistance...
Quoted for truth, and for loveliness.

I think there's always a danger of becoming Too Cool For School. There's always a dark side to community: community can become a self-reinforcing echo chamber, a clique that lets in only the concepts it's already decided to accept.

On the other hand, it's nice to have a place for all the loose ends to gather. And I hope (trust) all of us can remember that if we define this place too tightly, we're not loose ends any more.

[Dawnstorm]

*trips Iz over, points* "Dawnstorm did it."

*Yawns. Blinks.* Huh? What?

Tripping?

Yeah, I'm tripping...

Wait, what? NO! I'm not tripping transitively. I'd never do that.

Trust me.

Now look the other way...

[Shweta]

:eek:

:is a little scared of what's being done to the poor innocent squid metaphor:

[Ruv Draba]

I vote that we vote anyone who didn't vote 'squid' out of this forum for not being individualistic enough. I frankly want to exclude anyone too conformist*

* unless uh.. you all do too..

In any case, Squid is the most popular answer, which I think gives a more accurate assessment of risk than any other argument.

[Shweta]

In any case, Squid is the most popular answer, which I think gives a more accurate assessment of risk than any other argument.
Oh noes! Groupthink!
:eek:






Squid might be our Orlando Bloom...

[Alan Yee]

I blame Sharon for the squid phenomenon. People have been making gratuitous squid references ever since Sharon talked about her story-with-gratuitous-squid.

ETA: I voted for "probably not much of a risk" and "Squid". Who can resist the squid?

[Liosse de Velishaf]

Hey, what can I say? Doing squid is cool.

[beezle]

Pfft, I've been writing about squids for years. Giant squids at that.

[Sharon Mock]

No, no, no. It's Shweta's fault. I'm the nice one, remember?

Actually, I blame Jeff VanderMeer. I'd probably still have gratuitous squid if it weren't for him, but I wouldn't have been quite so... gleeful about it.

[Williebee]

Bring on the ink slingers!