Vampires: Oversaturated? Economy: Unbreakable Wall?

[Jack_Roberts]

My depression leads to a desperate call for advice.
I’ve just finished a year off from submitting my only novel to Literary Agents. During that time I was part of a critique group and scrubbed the heck out of my manuscript.
Now I’m resubmitting and getting the usual rejections. We all get them but I can’t help but wonder two things and maybe this post is in the wrong place, but…
1) My novel is an upper middle grade vampire adventure story. I’ve been working on it way before Twilight was popular but now, with vampires every where, is it too late? After all this, am I forced to wait and work on other things? Did she get there first and now I’m stuck in her dust?
2) With the rough economy, do any new 1st time authors have any hope to break in? I’m trying to find an agent but no one has money to invest in 1st timers.
So am I in a stall zone now? Thoughts?

[Jstwatchin]

In regards to point 1:

Vampires were around long before Edward sparkled and will still be around after his light has burned out..

In regards to point 2:

This one may be more valid. I however would let that get me down. You don't need dozens of agents. All you need is one - irrespective of what the economy currently happens to be like. So just keep submitting...

Good luck.

[kimmeunier]

Speaking from a purely reader's standpoint, I might find it difficult to buy a book about vampires. I've read the twilight series and quite enjoyed it, but..., I love vampires. I wrote half a novel myself and gave up. Everyone who read it told me it needed a lot of work and maybe it did, but I should not have given up on it and neither should you. If your story is unique and well written, I think publishers might give it a whirl. People love vampires, zombies, werewolves etc. We never get sick of this stuff, but it does have to be unique. I think what I would do is concentrate on your submission letter, giving them a reason to pick it up and read. By the way, as much as I enjoyed the Twilight books, I don't think she's a great writer. She kept it interesting, but by no means was it really well written. Keep on plugging. You've worked too hard to give it up now.

[windyrdg]

Everything runs in cycles and that may work against you. As far as being a debut author, I think if you've got what excites 'em, you'll get picked up. The biggest frustration that I feel is realizing that in a time when most publishers have reduced their slots, some of those slots are going to go to celeb books. Oh, but I forgot, they have a platform. Blah!

[Gillhoughly]

Now I’m resubmitting and getting the usual rejections.

Post a sample on the Share Your Work forum, the password is vista. Your crit group might have missed something.

with vampires every where, is it too late?

No. I was told 30 years ago that vampires were OVER when King came out with Salem's Lot and when Rice had her ongoing rumpy-pumpy affair with Lestat and Louis. The Toothy Ones are still selling--providing the writing is good.

With the rough economy, do any new 1st time authors have any hope to break in? I’m trying to find an agent but no one has money to invest in 1st timers.

Trust me, it is CHEAPER for a publisher to pay a low advance to a new novelist than to keep a mid-lister on the roll.

And please--use a larger font on this board. The tiny print is hard to read. Verdana set on 2 is just fine. I could be your next editor, so impress me. :D

Yeah, I know, I can enlarge the fonts by hitting Ctrl and +, but I don't want to 'cause I'm all crabby and tired.

Grr. Argh.

[James81]

My personal opinion is that people should think long and hard about attempting to write Vampires (or fantasy of any kind for that matter).

It's such an oversaturated market that is absolutely INNUNDATED to the point where agents specifically spell out that they do not want to receive fantasy submissions, that you'd have to be some kind of maschist to want to try and break into that genre.

That's just my opinion, though. If you think that your writing and your story is so far beyond fantastic that you put others to shame with your golden writing skills, even then you might want to think "hmmm, should I get into this genre."

Not to be discouraging or anything like that. Just saying that you gotta be 100% serious to get into that stuff, and even then be prepared to go through a flogging to get your work sold.

[Charlie Horse]

Vampires will always make good books when written well. Vampires in YA and MG, however, seem to be the flavor of the month so yeah, that market right now is being overrun.

My only advice to you is to start writing something new. I know it seems like you've poured everything you've got into your novel and the thought of having to start all over again is daunting. But believe me, once you get your head around a new project you'll fall in love all over again. Sure you can keep submitting your completed work, but even if it does land you an agent, you'll have to have something to follow up with, so you might as well start now. The best advice I've ever gotten is you have to write to be a writer.

So keep writing.

[blacbird]

Ditto James. The problem is, simply, that vampires have been done to death. Sucked dry. Bled out.

You could blame Anne Rice.

I blame Dawno.

caw

[Jack_Roberts]

LOL
Will do on the font and the Share Your Work. Thanks!




Post a sample on the Share Your Work forum, the password is vista. Your crit group might have missed something.



No. I was told 30 years ago that vampires were OVER when King came out with Salem's Lot and when Rice had her ongoing rumpy-pumpy affair with Lestat and Louis. The Toothy Ones are still selling--providing the writing is good.



Trust me, it is CHEAPER for a publisher to pay a low advance to a new novelist than to keep a mid-lister on the roll.

And please--use a larger font on this board. The tiny print is hard to read. Verdana set on 2 is just fine. I could be your next editor, so impress me. :D

Yeah, I know, I can enlarge the fonts by hitting Ctrl and +, but I don't want to 'cause I'm all crabby and tired.

Grr. Argh.

[Jack_Roberts]

Ditto James. The problem is, simply, that vampires have been done to death. Sucked dry. Bled out.

You could blame Anne Rice.

I blame Dawno.

caw

If that's true why does Barns & Noble have a vampire section?

Huh. Guess I do need to get serious on my non-vamp YA.

[James81]

If that's true why does Barns & Noble have a vampire section?



Think about what you just said for a minute. lol

A vampire....SECTION.

How many other genres do you know that have a dedicated section for just one area within it?

[James81]

Sorry, though, I'm really not trying to discourage you. You have a finished work, which is great. Don't give up on it. I think my comments are more a general "rant" of sorts than aimed directly at you.

[Feathers]

My opinion: Yes, the vampire market is wayyy over-saturated, and yes, it's hard to get an agent at this point in time with the economy and rise in submissions and all that.

But the thing is, agents are still looking for clients, and are probably accepting about as many - or more - than they used to. If you do your research and write a good novel, and persists to do so, you ARE going to get an agent. Right? It's just a matter of time. The same goes for your vampire novel. The market is over-saturated, but they are still being bought and published. If yours is truly worthy of publication, it will get published, just a matter of time.

Maybe that's my naivety speaking or maybe it's because I haven't begun the submission process yet, and my rose-colored glasses are still intact. But my point is that a good writer is a good writer. I don't think that because the market is over-saturated, and the economy is struggling, you are doomed.

Anywho. My two cents.

-Feathers

[blacbird]

If that's true why does Barns & Noble have a vampire section?

They vant to bite your neck.

caw

[rugcat]

Trust me, it is CHEAPER for a publisher to pay a low advance to a new novelist than to keep a mid-lister on the roll.How about a low advance to us mid listers?

[dgiharris]

Here is my take on the "Are Vampires Overdone?" question.

I think the answer is yes and no.

Sure, Vampires have been around forever, but you can make the argument that any and all stories are overdone. There are a million elf stories, dragon stories, etc. etc. but yet we still keep writing them.

I think the real question here is: "Is YOUR Vampire story overdone?"

If you are writing the same story that has already been sold a million times, then yes, your vampire story is overdone, bled dry, and any other analogy you want to use.

BUT

If you have a unique take or spin on the Vampire genre and tell a 'different' story than what has already been told, and that story is interesting, then you have nothing to worry about (other than the usual 'someone please accept my brilliant MS' stuff)

I think as writers we sometimes get too hung up on the novelty of something. The real question IMHO is whether we have

1) Written something that is good
2) Written something that has a slight 'edge' so that it is distinguished in and of itself

I have a friend who just wrote a great Vampire story (Vampires are part of a larger world) and it is an incredible MS. In a nutshell, he brings magic to the modern era in a way that is similar to Joss Whedon. It is a great story and has enough 'edge' where it is distinguished.

anyways, good luck

my $0.02 cents

Mel...

[Jack_Roberts]

Thanks guys. Sorry to be sore. I'd like to believe mine is original. If I look at the facts (story content, mc, voice, setting) it checks out as original. I suppose I have the normal fears.
I’ll keep trying. I’ll submit to more and more agents while building on and writing my second novel that is not a vamp story.
Thanks for giving me some perspective.

[James81]

Thanks guys. Sorry to be sore. I'd like to believe mine is original. If I look at the facts (story content, mc, voice, setting) it checks out as original. I suppose I have the normal fears.
I’ll keep trying. I’ll submit to more and more agents while building on and writing my second novel that is not a vamp story.
Thanks for giving me some perspective.

Yeah, man, keep at it. To answer your original question, I figure the economy has a little bit of an affect, but my guess is that people are still looking for great writing.

[Shara]

If that's true why does Barns & Noble have a vampire section?


Barnes & Noble have a vampire section??

In the UK, vampires get lumped in the 'horror' section. That's assuming the book store has a horror section...sometimes they end up in 'fantasy' (or best sellers, if the author's a household name).

I think maybe vampires are doing better in the US than the UK!

Shara

[Phaeal]

A friend of mine reads nothing but historical bodice rippers of the sort that used to put Fabio on the cover. Several times I've caught her rereading one without knowing it -- having bought exactly the same book a second time. Obviously these books are so alike that she can't tell them apart herself, but she keeps right on buying (and rebuying).

Don't underestimate the power of familiarity. Lots of people don't WANT a revolution in every book they pick up. They want the same old, same old comfort food.

If novelty were all, much genre (and lit/mainstream) fiction would never see publication.

Characters that provide readers with wish fulfilment will never go begging. Hence we'll never run out of beautiful heroines who get the perfect man and rugged adventurers who save the planet on a weekly basis. As for vampires: sleep all day, party all night, live forever? Yeah, vamps will be around as long as we are.

[dawinsor]

Every time I think vampires are done, I run into a book that does them so well, I want to read it--and I'm not a vampire fan. The books range from Kostova's The Historian to Pauley's Sucks to Be Me, both of which I believe are first novels.

So hang in there.

Having said that, I'm a big advocate of starting another book. A writer writes--and not just once.

[ChaosTitan]

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128189

Plus everything Gillhoughly said.

[ClaudiaGray]

I agree with the consensus -- yeah, there are tons of vampire books out there right now, and that's mostly because people are buying them. (You see a lot of authors, agents, etc. say that they're sick of vampires, but as long as readers aren't, it doesn't matter. And they aren't.) It's harder to crack the market right now, both b/c of the economy and the difficulty in finding original ideas. But it isn't impossible.

I also suggest starting something else -- only because it's better to be looking forward and working constantly than to give in to worry.

[Brindle Chase]

A couple questions. Are your queries coming back denied or are partial/fulls being requested, then denied? It is important to note this. If you are being rejected on your query/synopsis alone, it could be that your manuscript is fine but your query needs help!

If you are getting requests for partials or fulls, then being denied, then maybe your manuscript needs help?

Vampire books sell every day and remain hyper-popular... they likely always will be. I dont think your book is having trouble because its about vampires. Hang in there, sounds like some fine tuning is needed, but dont give up hope!!

[Zoombie]

We need more vampires like this:

http://fc27.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/188/e/0/Novice_Vampire_by_JohnSu.jpg

[Cyia]

A -- always work on the next book.

B -- good books that grab a reader's attention and don't let go will sell regardless of genre

C -- always work on the next book

D -- vampires are a staple, all those books in B&N weren't written in the last 5 years, they just showcase them now because of Twilight

E -- always work on the next book

F -- DO put something up in SYW to see if it's the technique or presentation rather than the material holding you back. I know for a fact that vampire books can still get requests because that's what I have out right now.

G -- always work on the next book

H -- NOTHING is original. Sometimes you can have a new voice or an unusal slant, but if you're thinking you have an original story... you may have just found your problem. (Have you read any vamp-lit to compare?)

I -- always work on the next book

J -- learn to love and hate Smeyer for the impact of Twilight on the genre. (and remember all vamps don't have to be geared for the YA set)

K -- always work on the next book

[Jack_Roberts]

I was hoping you'd chime in! Thanks, will do on writing something new that isn't Annabelle and good luck with your vamp series!

I agree with the consensus -- yeah, there are tons of vampire books out there right now, and that's mostly because people are buying them. (You see a lot of authors, agents, etc. say that they're sick of vampires, but as long as readers aren't, it doesn't matter. And they aren't.) It's harder to crack the market right now, both b/c of the economy and the difficulty in finding original ideas. But it isn't impossible.

I also suggest starting something else -- only because it's better to be looking forward and working constantly than to give in to worry.

[Jack_Roberts]

Just the query. No requests for partials or fulls... yet. I should post the query at the proper forum here.


A couple questions. Are your queries coming back denied or are partial/fulls being requested, then denied? It is important to note this. If you are being rejected on your query/synopsis alone, it could be that your manuscript is fine but your query needs help!

If you are getting requests for partials or fulls, then being denied, then maybe your manuscript needs help?

Vampire books sell every day and remain hyper-popular... they likely always will be. I dont think your book is having trouble because its about vampires. Hang in there, sounds like some fine tuning is needed, but dont give up hope!!

[Jack_Roberts]

I'm sure I can throw one in somewhere in the series. LOL

We need more vampires like this:

http://fc27.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/188/e/0/Novice_Vampire_by_JohnSu.jpg

[Jack_Roberts]

LOL

A -- always work on the next book.

Code name for next one : "Store"

B -- good books that grab a reader's attention and don't let go will sell regardless of genre

Sweet.

C -- always work on the next book

Store

D -- vampires are a staple, all those books in B&N weren't written in the last 5 years, they just showcase them now because of Twilight

True.

E -- always work on the next book

Store

F -- DO put something up in SYW to see if it's the technique or presentation rather than the material holding you back. I know for a fact that vampire books can still get requests because that's what I have out right now.

Will do tonight!


G -- always work on the next book

Store

H -- NOTHING is original. Sometimes you can have a new voice or an unusal slant, but if you're thinking you have an original story... you may have just found your problem. (Have you read any vamp-lit to compare?)

Yup, and plan to read more.

I -- always work on the next book

Store (must begin more than outline)

J -- learn to love and hate Smeyer for the impact of Twilight on the genre. (and remember all vamps don't have to be geared for the YA set)

I do love and hate her. Mine is far from sappy romance. It's MG adventure (maybe YA adventure)

K -- always work on the next book

Must get started on "Store"!

[seun]

The vampire question came up on another thread recently. My answer's the same:

Going by the books I order at work, vampires are still selling and therefore still read a hell of a lot. Personally, I think the market is saturated with them, but that's just my view. If your book is good and original enough, I'd say you've got as much chance as any first time author.

[Shamrockgreen]

I enjoy a good vampire series actually, read some Rice, read some Hamilton, did not do the Twilight series. Found J.R. Ward to put out and excellent product and can not wait for the next book in the series.

I am in a critique group and one thing you need to make sure is that your "group" did not help you scrub your ms so clean that it washed the voice out of the narrative. I have had group friends say " do you really need that?" maybe, maybe not, but it is the flavor and the sound of the line that "I" like and I left it. After all.......I am the creator. I always listen to what everyone has to say but there is a point where you stop editing and let the voice of the writing speak for itself.



Post a chapter and let's read it and see....

[Jack_Roberts]

Good points. There were times when I took a stand on things. I did a lot of clean up on things like show vs tell, pov, ect.

But after all the work and such, I'll never believe it's "done". I'll post a chap sometime this weekend.



I enjoy a good vampire series actually, read some Rice, read some Hamilton, did not do the Twilight series. Found J.R. Ward to put out and excellent product and can not wait for the next book in the series.

I am in a critique group and one thing you need to make sure is that your "group" did not help you scrub your ms so clean that it washed the voice out of the narrative. I have had group friends say " do you really need that?" maybe, maybe not, but it is the flavor and the sound of the line that "I" like and I left it. After all.......I am the creator. I always listen to what everyone has to say but there is a point where you stop editing and let the voice of the writing speak for itself.



Post a chapter and let's read it and see....

[angeliz2k]

Hey, somebody is writing these vampire books that are saturating the market. You can make yours stand out by making it great. There's always room for a good book, ya know.

[Arkie]

I read in Publishers Weekly that readers are petioning the publisher of Stephanie Meyer's latest for their money back. I don't know if it is the vampires or the writing. I suspect a little of both. Although, she still has a large number of "Twilight" stacked like cordwood in the window of my local Barnes and Noble.

[ChaosTitan]

I read in Publishers Weekly that readers are petioning the publisher of Stephanie Meyer's latest for their money back. I don't know if it is the vampires or the writing. I suspect a little of both.

After three other books, readers knew it contained vampires, and they certainly were well aware of Meyer's writing style. I suspect it was the story that turned off so many previously-loyal fans.

[Smish]

I think one thing that may help you here is that your story is MG. MG trends tend to follow YA trends. So, the window may still be open there for good vampire novels, even if it's over done in YA right now.

Definitely post your query in SYW.

[ccarver30]

I agree that vamps have been around forever and please realize that the Twilight series is done and peopole still want to read more. I have plenty of friends that are moving on to other vamp series. :)
As far as the economy goes, reading is one of the cheapest froms of entertainment! Going out to a movie is $30 now; a book can be $5!

[Birol]

I'm editing a vampire romance right now. It's due to be released this spring. I believe the authors are working on the next book in the series, too.

Vampires aren't over. Nothing ever is if the story is well told.

[JulieJames]

hey you guys should check out "Single White Vampire" that book actually had me laughing out loud at one point!

[Tia]

You could always have your same story but add some different types of species? I know in Twilight the main conflict was Vampires and Werewolves. Why not add in something that isn't written about at all/ not that much? I think vampires are usually a good read if they are unique and have a good hook.

[Jack_Roberts]

You could always have your same story but add some different types of species? I know in Twilight the main conflict was Vampires and Werewolves. Why not add in something that isn't written about at all/ not that much? I think vampires are usually a good read if they are unique and have a good hook.


Thanks! Mine is different. It's far from Twilight and it's clones. Now if an agent would just give it a chance.

[Neversage]

For what it's worth. If I could read your story, then tell a friend how it was different or better than another vampire story, I would call that a major plus.

On the major note, if your book is a good read, and I like vampire stories, I would be very inclined to read it. Don't you think Harry Potter fans would read a 9th HP book?

Semper fi, says I.

[Jack_Roberts]

Sorry ittook a bit but my query and 1st chap are at Share Your Work


http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134428

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134427

[Angel_Lorena26]

I have been told that before when asked what kind of novel I am writing. Not for a second did it discouraged me from continuing my novel. So I say continue ..........................

[sakura tsuda]

im writtting a vampire story too. You just need to make yours unque and different. Stephanie isnt the only one who has a great plot for a vampire story

[Jack_Roberts]

Thanks guys! Full steam ahead!

[Jack_Roberts]

Hi guys, I'm bumping this topic up. It's been several months since I brought it up and the sea of vamp books is still just as thick. I talk to people and they roll thier eyes and say "Another vampire story?"

Personally, I don't feel ready to submit anymore anyway. I'm waiting to go the professional editor route, finishing the last two or three chapters of book 2 and then I'll begin something completely different.

I just hate to think the Twilight craze has driven any future readers away.

Eh, this a dumb post. Before there was Twilight there was Circu Du Freak and Interview with a Vampire. I guess I'm just curious what everyone's hearing about the livelihood of the MG or YA vampire market.

I mean, if your novel isnt the same old "modern girl falls for enchanting old vamp" thing, but instead is something like "vamp kids stop big bad throughout history", would it still get the "eye roll" from the agents and pubs?

Just curious.

[CheshireCat]

My sources say vampire books are still flying off the shelves, especially in the YA market, and some editors are actively acquiring them. But some editors are also sick of seeing the same-old, same-old.

So the trick would be to find the right editor open to the project.

You know, the easy part. ;)

[Karen Junker]

I was at the Emerald City Writers Conference this past weekend and an editor from Harlequin said they are actively looking for vampire stories for their paranormal lines.

[Dicentra P]

A friend of mine reads nothing but historical bodice rippers of the sort that used to put Fabio on the cover. Several times I've caught her rereading one without knowing it -- having bought exactly the same book a second time. Obviously these books are so alike that she can't tell them apart herself, but she keeps right on buying (and rebuying).

Don't underestimate the power of familiarity. Lots of people don't WANT a revolution in every book they pick up. They want the same old, same old comfort food.

If novelty were all, much genre (and lit/mainstream) fiction would never see publication.

Characters that provide readers with wish fulfilment will never go begging. Hence we'll never run out of beautiful heroines who get the perfect man and rugged adventurers who save the planet on a weekly basis. As for vampires: sleep all day, party all night, live forever? Yeah, vamps will be around as long as we are.

What I was going to say, but expressed better. Still you believe that you have a different take. I would recommend turning your query over to the critics in SYW. There are going to be a lot of Twilight wanna be authors querying and you want to make absolutely sure that your query stands out with what makes your novel unique.

[Clifton Hill]

I didn't read all the posts, but I would say like many did that it all comes down to the quality of the story.

That said, don't put all your eggs in one basket, go write something else while you're trying to get this sold. If you only ever have one story to sell, your odds of publication are probably pretty small.

If you're hell-bent on the story and can't get into something else right now, try a short story that connects somehow to the main and see if you can get that published for a few bucks, or at least for free to get some credits to your name (might not help, but probably can't hurt).

[CheshireCat]

Yeah, Harlequin is well known for their bandwagon-jumping habits.

It's good to keep in mind, however, that they're just as quick to cancel whole lines if the performance isn't what they expected.

[mamaesme]

Thing is, vampires are making money right now, and it has at least a few more years in it before most people get sick of them. The Vampire Diaries on the CW is doing amazingly well, the best show they have actually, Twilight is still flying off the shelves with girls wanting more, and True Blood has hit it's stride popularity wise. I think what people want are GOOD vampire stories. Have one of those and you're good.

The economy isn't entirely down the drain. We're improving, but the dollar versus other currencies isn't going up which isn't good at all. (inflation, here we come) So, yes, the economy isn't helping you. What you need to do is have a book and query that sells itself. If it catches the agent's attention then it doesn't matter if your a first-timer or a old pro - you've got yourself deal.

/end business student rant (whoops?)

[fringle]

Just a little heads up: There's a post in the Newbie Forum by an agent who specializes in MG and YA who....wait for it...likes vamp stories and is looking for submissions.

[Jack_Roberts]

Just a little heads up: There's a post in the Newbie Forum by an agent who specializes in MG and YA who....wait for it...likes vamp stories and is looking for submissions.

Yes!

I'm still waiting on the pro. Editor and writing other things, but heck. Why not?

[blacbird]

I think the "saturation" point in any genre of writing comes when publishers stop looking for "more of the same only different", and cease looking for any "of the same". Which means, to break through, you will need to be really different from all the other stuff out there. A tough job, at best. Stephen King and Dean Koontz pretty much killed off the Horror genre, at least for a while, because the followers ultimately didn't do much but follow-the-leader.

And, yeah, I think vampires have been done to death, sucked dry, the stake driven through the heart. You'll need something more than garlic and an eccentric vampire-hunter or an idiotically star-struck love interest to make it work again. Good luck.

caw

[Cliff Face]

Actually, I think a saturated market for vampires could really be helpful. You just know that anybody who browses the vampire section (we have one in Australia in my local Angus And Robertson :)) is about 250% more likely to buy your book than if there wasn't a vampire section at all.

Basically, half the people who usually go on a fantasy kick, these are the people who are now on a vampire kick, so they'll go straight for the vampire story instead of perusing the fantasy section, no problem. Big selling point for publishers, IMO.

That said, it has to be good. If you're just getting rejected, then you probably need to work on the query (something I need to do, too...).

Meanwhile, I'm trying to bust into fantasy in general! There's vampires in my second book, but only a minimal amount, they're not MCs or anything. I think I'll have a marginally more difficult time than you. :)

Woe is me...

[Kitty27]

Horror is my first love and I write hardcore vampire fiction for adults. At first,I was discouraged. With Twilight,True Blood and Vampire Diaries all going at the same time,I wondered whether I should continue. I thought readers would be tired of vampire fiction. But my friends and beta readers gave me encouragement and I realized that my vampires are completely different from those books. So I am still writing about my bloody crew and loving every minute of it.


With the economy,maybe agents aren't picking up clients as much as they used to,but I still believe in the power of a great story and killer concept. If you have those at the ready,you should be able to make moves.

[blacbird]

Horror is my first love

Mine too, as it turned out. But the divorce helped.

caw

[Jack_Roberts]

Mine too, as it turned out. But the divorce helped.

caw

LOL! Good one.

[thothguard51]

I read in the Washington Post yesterday that Bram Stokers son, Drac, is bringing out the sequel to the original Dracula. I think its set 15 years later and Van Helsing and the guys believe its over. Stokers son, said his father always wanted the sequal but never got around to finishing.

Not sure a publisher would take this on if there was not a demand, because most understand that sequels by anyone other than the original author tend to suck.

Hell, I have read that Fantasy fiction has been dead since the late eighties and yet it still sells.

Nick Anthony

[Jack_Roberts]

How old is that son? I mean, Stoker was in his prime at the end of the 1800s.

At any rate, I'd be interested in reading a sequil.

[squibnocket]

Re: the new Dracula - It's Stoker's great grand-nephew who's collaborating with a screenwriter to bring the sequel out. Source {http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gN9jj0XZ_jBQFY_6McbWczc919mw}

I think vampire stories will always sell as long as they're well-written and engaging. Maybe not as well as they're doing now but vamps are forever part of literature and pop culture. Every decade has its own vampire craze, each a bit different than the one before it.

[blacbird]

I read in the Washington Post yesterday that Bram Stokers son, Drac, is bringing out the sequel to the original Dracula.

Bram Stoker died in 1912 at the age of 64. Any "son" would now be at least 110 years old. Couple with the alleged name "Drac" this sounds like complete hokum.

In addition, Bram Stoker was really a rather atrocious writer. Lest ye try reading any other fiction he wrote (novels, short stories). A classic example of a one-hit wonder in the literary world, a guy who had one truly magnificent idea, not terribly well carried out, mind you, but which inspired followers, particularly in the movie world, to make into an iconic symbol.

caw

[sanssouci]

According to the Frankfurt Book Fair coverage on The Bookseller, one of the hotest fiction titles is The Discovery of Witches by Deborah Harkness, pitched as "a tale of science and magic in which a long-lost alchemical manuscript is discovered at the Bodleian Library at Oxford, leading to romance between a 1,500 year old vampire and a witch in denial of her powers."

The witches of Frankfurt to Headline
Headline has fought off competition from five other publishers to acquire the 2009 Frankfurt Book Fair's hottest fiction title, The Discovery of 
Witches by Deborah Harkness. Viking US, which is selling the book at the fair, has racked up "well over seven figures" in rights sales so far.

http://www.thebookseller.com/blogs//100368-hot-deals-at-frankfurt---day-three.html

[GregB]

Are humans "oversaturated"? Seriously, if you can summarize your book as "it's about vampires," yeah, you're probably gonna have a problem. If you've got a good story, I don't think it matters what species (or subspecies, or whatever) you populate it with.

I got an agent in January, went on submission in February, and landed my first book deal in March -- all in Q1 2009, the pit of the recession, with its -6.4% GDP shit sandwich.

It happens. Keep working. Good luck.

[Mara]

I'll continue to read books with vampires in them, as long as the plot is something more than "there's vampires in this book." (Even then, I might read it, I suppose.) I think vampires are so versatile and varied that we can write about them indefinitely. At this point, it's similar to writing books involving people with brown hair or who drive cars. "Vampire story" is a lot wider field of possibilities than, say, "gangster story" or even "romance story."

[bizco]

My first foray into the genre was My Friend, the Vampire. (1984 - Angela Sommer-Bodenburg)

I thought there were sequels, but I can't find them online right now...

[Jess Haines]

I've read a number of good books (fairly recent) with vampires in them. Kim Harrison, Jim Butcher and Robin McKinley are stellar examples, IMHO. There's also a few bad ones I've picked up (not going to go into naming names, as it is MY opinion, and others may feel differently).

People continue to buy this stuff. There's Jeaniene Frost's Nighthuntress series, Patricia Briggs' Mercy Thompson series... Just take a look in the bookstore, you'll see tons of 'em.

The common denominator with the above is that the stories aren't "about" vampires -- though you'll find vampires in them, sometimes featuring rather heavily in the plot.

If it's done well, it's very worthwhile to invest in books like that. The purpose is entertainment, right? So why not just enjoy them, whatever the flavor of monster found between the pages?

[motormind]

I wonder why people keep harping upon these run-down ideas like vampires and werewolves. Why not make your own scary beasties to populate your stories with? Use your imagination, for crying (or howling) out loud.

[GregB]

I wonder why people keep harping upon these run-down ideas like vampires and werewolves. Why not make your own scary beasties to populate your stories with? Use your imagination, for crying (or howling) out loud.

1. The book-buying public doesn't seem to agree these ideas are "run down."

2. Part of the appeal of urban or contemporary fantasy, for me at least, is the new take on familiar myth and folklore.

[virtue_summer]

I wonder why people keep harping upon these run-down ideas like vampires and werewolves. Why not make your own scary beasties to populate your stories with? Use your imagination, for crying (or howling) out loud.

You're looking at the vampires or the werewolves as the ideas when for most writers they aren't the ideas. The stories in which they are featured are the ideas. Think about it. Let's step out of the fantasy arena here for an analogy. There are a lot of books that have cops as characters but does that mean writers should toss out any novel ideas that involve cops? The fact is that vampires and werewolves aren't necessarily run-down. It's all in how they're approached, the same with anything else.

[motormind]

1. The book-buying public doesn't seem to agree these ideas are "run down."


For now. I myself am terribly bored by them.

2. Part of the appeal of urban or contemporary fantasy, for me at least, is the new take on familiar myth and folklore.

Of course, but there is more to myth and folklore than werewolves and vampires. I myself lift ideas from Chinese and Japanese folklore big time, but there are a lot of western myths to scavenge as well.

You're looking at the vampires or the werewolves as the ideas when for most writers they aren't the ideas. The stories in which they are featured are the ideas.

But vampires and werewolves have very fixed roles and qualities. If you tamper with those then those beasties could better be called something else. So why not go that extra mile?

[Mara]

I wonder why people keep harping upon these run-down ideas like vampires and werewolves. Why not make your own scary beasties to populate your stories with? Use your imagination, for crying (or howling) out loud.

It actually requires much less imagination to make up a new monster than come up with a creative use for an old one. I like to make up new monsters, but I won't claim it's as hard as using classics in fresh ways.

Using existing monsters draws on reader expectations. Reader expectations are like a wave, and writing about classic monsters is like surfing. It can be hard to do correctly, but you can really get moving if you succeed.

But vampires and werewolves have very fixed roles and qualities. If you tamper with those then those beasties could better be called something else. So why not go that extra mile?

Werewolves might have fixed qualities. (I've never really bothered with them much.) Vampires don't really have any fixed qualities other than "feeds on something." There are thousands of completely different fictional creatures that have been labelled "vampires." One of my favorite short vampire stories was a gangster story about an individual virus particle fighting a different type of virus particle for control of "turf" (a cell inside a body.) His girlfriend betrays him for the other guy, and they suck out his vital fluids.

H.P. Lovecraft was a master of vampires. In addition to the actual vampire in one of his stories (it was made out of fungus and lived in a basement, I think), there were numerous other eldritch horrors that were vampires. The Colour Out of Space was a great one. It was an alien blob of energy that mutated its surroundings and drained life from people. That's really creative, and it's still a vampire.

EDIT: Really, I'd argue that using vampires often qualifies as making up your own monster, and doesn't require quite as much imagination. Now, if someone manages to use classic horror movie mummies as interesting monsters, well, that takes creativity.

[motormind]

Werewolves might have fixed qualities. (I've never really bothered with them much.) Vampires don't really have any fixed qualities other than "feeds on something." There are thousands of completely different fictional creatures that have been labelled "vampires." One of my favorite short vampire stories was a gangster story about an individual virus particle fighting a different type of virus particle for control of "turf" (a cell inside a body.) His girlfriend betrays him for the other guy, and they suck out his vital fluids.

H.P. Lovecraft was a master of vampires. In addition to the actual vampire in one of his stories (it was made out of fungus and lived in a basement, I think), there were numerous other eldritch horrors that were vampires. The Colour Out of Space was a great one. It was an alien blob of energy that mutated its surroundings and drained life from people. That's really creative, and it's still a vampire.


That's stretching the definition of "vampire" so far as to lose any meaning. I am referring to actual vampires, e.g. the lifeless, pale, bloodsucking undead roaming so many stories, old and new.

[Jack_Roberts]

Now, if someone manages to use classic horror movie mummies as interesting monsters, well, that takes creativity.

Give me time. Already on the docket with the rest. ;)

[yttar]

Really, I'd argue that using vampires often qualifies as making up your own monster, and doesn't require quite as much imagination. Now, if someone manages to use classic horror movie mummies as interesting monsters, well, that takes creativity.

I have a mummy in the YA novel I really want to write. Though the mummy is a monk who mummified himself a thousand or so years ago, rather than your typical Egyptian mummy. The Angel of Death reawakens him in the modern day to reclaim his (more or less) magical sword from the heroine.

Yttar

[newgreekwriter]

Vampires are around everywhere it seems, yet, they were popular waaaayyyy before a certain novel introduced a brooding male...
As in regards to the economy, that is the factor that is getting many people to receive R's. I would just say to try and try, but maybe it would be good to wait a while as well. (The only thing you lose in waiting is that sombody beats you to the punch. So, eh, it's really a bad time for everybody). Just keep your chin up =)

[Jack_Roberts]

Keeping chin up and waiting while writing. ;)

[newgreekwriter]

That's the spirit! In the meantime, write another novel or something just to keep your mind off things. That's what I am doing right now.

[Jack_Roberts]

Exactly. I'm still 2 chaps away from finishing the sequil, then I'll get going on something different.
I've been 2 chaps away for a month but work has me too busy to write.

[newgreekwriter]

Ah, sequels, they always occupy my time, yet they worry me. I never want an agent to say, "Great, love the book, I just don't think it's going to sell as a trilogy". Eek.
I'd still continue though even if you're two chapters away. Good luck with everything!

[*RomanceWriter*]

Well, I don't think I'll ever be sick of reading about vampires. I also think that the love of vampire related books has grown since Twilight because the YA crowd wants a similar fix.

[newgreekwriter]

From what other readers of YA have said, vampires are the "it" thing, yet agents/publishers are the ones who say, "No, no more!" (Meaning if it's a directly like 'Twilight', not that Jack Roberts' is, which it isn't from the description!)
Paranormal Romance is here to stay, as with any other genre.

[lucidzfl]

god i hate vampires. hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em


my wife loves em.

[Jack_Roberts]

god i hate vampires. hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em hate'em

my wife loves em.

LOL!
But how do you really feel?

[Jack_Roberts]

From what other readers of YA have said, vampires are the "it" thing, yet agents/publishers are the ones who say, "No, no more!" (Meaning if it's a directly like 'Twilight', not that Jack Roberts' is, which it isn't from the description!)
Paranormal Romance is here to stay, as with any other genre.

I'm hoping YA Historical fantasy adventure is original. But it's editing time. Gotta make it perfect.

[WittyandorIronic]

I really wasn't going to respond to this thread as many people had already stated my point, but someone ACTUALLY said that fantasy was dead. As a much more successful reader than a writer, I am unequivocally stating that good (and sometimes bad) books with interesting plot lines will always sell, regardless of genre, world, monster, or religious denomination. Nothing is dead. Ever.

[newgreekwriter]

I really wasn't going to respond to this thread as many people had already stated my point, but someone ACTUALLY said that fantasy was dead. As a much more successful reader than a writer, I am unequivocally stating that good (and sometimes bad) books with interesting plot lines will always sell, regardless of genre, world, monster, or religious denomination. Nothing is dead. Ever.


Nothing in literature ever dies, plain and simple. It's just that some things are more popular than others. ;-)

[8thSamurai]

You're just talking about Dracula - not even all of the types of eastern European classic vampires.

Vampire: monster that feeds on blood, undead rather than fey.

I particularly like the Japanese one where the head comes off and ears turn into wings...