How do we know it's any good?

[Vimes]

I am losing the will to live with my MS. I have edited it so much that I now hate it. I want to set fire to it in the garden and dance around it under a full moon. Honestly. Now I'm looking at it and thinking the whole thing is rubbish. How can I expect anyone else to like it if I hate it? How do I know anyone will find the plot remotely interesting? What if I've finally gotten to the end of the process and it was a waste of time after all? AAAAARRRGGGGHHHH......!!!!!!!

[Cyia]

Put the aim n' flame down, stick it in a drawer and back away.

Now, let it set for a week, and take another look.

Lather - rinse - repeat until the homicidal urge has passed. Then get some new eyes on it. Let someone else read it (preferably someone who doesn't know you); you can put a piece of it up here in Share Your Work.

Outside eyes see clearer than yours where things need work sometimes.

[stormie]

Or put it aside for more than a week. Maybe even a month. Write something else that's totally different. (I write silly rhyming poems.)

[witchunter88]

I feel the exact same way sometimes. The IHMR (I Hate My Writing) Syndrome. Just keep writing though, that's why we revise, so we can polish it till we're happy with the outcome.

[DeadlyAccurate]

I felt that way just a few weeks ago. I was *convinced* my agent would hate the book. Seriously convinced. But she didn't hate it, not at all. (Not that it doesn't need revision work, of course).

So, to answer your question, I dunno.

[BravoYankee]

I deleted the entire thing off my computer once... I was just in one of the moods. The hate was swarming!

Thank God for flashdrives!
Whew...

[scarletpeaches]

I say push through. Hiding it in a drawer or walking away won't get it written. Just about every writer hates their manuscript at some point, but the successful ones write to the end anyway.

[BlueLucario]

I know how you feel. At one time I felt like I wanted to throw away my W.I.P and want nothing to do with it.

That was why I started rewriting my first draft. It was so stupid to the point where I felt like pulling my hair out just thinking about it.

[Swordswoman]

I am losing the will to live with my MS. I have edited it so much that I now hate it. I want to set fire to it in the garden and dance around it under a full moon. Honestly. Now I'm looking at it and thinking the whole thing is rubbish. How can I expect anyone else to like it if I hate it? How do I know anyone will find the plot remotely interesting? What if I've finally gotten to the end of the process and it was a waste of time after all? AAAAARRRGGGGHHHH......!!!!!!!

The fact you feel like this tells me it almost certainly is good - or soon will be. One depressing truth I found as an editor was that the writers who were most convinced their work was wonderful and needed no help were invariably the ones who needed the most editing. The ones who find what they've written isn't good enough and are constantly striving for something better are the ones who make it in the end.

Actually going as far as 'hating it' can mean there is something wrong, but even then it's probably something unbelievably tiny and easy to put right. When this happened to me (and yes, Bravo Yankee - thank God for flash drives, because I did the exact same thing!) I forced myself to articulate what I believed the nastiest critic would say about it - and there was my answer. Don't settle for 'the plot's uninteresting', though, keep asking that critic 'why?' until they come up with something useful. Eg push them until they say 'it's too similar to X', then again ask 'why?' until they say 'it's that bit where...' - and there you go, that's the bit to fix. In my case, there was one absolutely crucial aspect of my set-up which simply wasn't ringing true to historical reality - but once I'd identified it as the problem it took two tweaks in a paragraph to fix. Honest.

If you find the 'inner critic' hard to do yet, then a simple shortcut is writing a quick synopsis. If there's something wrong with your plot a synopsis will make it shriek to heaven - and once you know what, you know how to sort it. If your plot is fine, the synopsis will reflect that too, and hopefully you'll fall in love with it all over again.

Either way I wouldn't try SYW yet. If you're at the 'hating it' stage, that probably means it's the concept or story that's bothering you, in which case having someone analyse a small section of your prose is not going to help you and may actually damage your confidence.

And that's all this is, Vimes, a crisis of confidence. As you'll have gathered from the replies so far - we all have them. Find what's causing yours, dismiss it or strangle it, then move on.

Louise

[Vimes]

Thanks everyone for replying. I love this forum! No one else understands like you guys on here... ;) I'm going to push through with this godforsaken edit and then probably let it fester for a few days. I'm so intent on cutting away the word count I'm starting to hack away at some of the good stuff I should probably keep, so I need to get some perspective, methinks... So nice to have ppl who understand!

[dawinsor]

I want to take issue with "waste of time." Writing something you care about is never a waste of time. At the very least, you learn something about how to write the next book better. But even apart from that, you have the experience of living for a while with characters whose situations matter to you.

[jodiodi]

I wish I'd heeded the advice on this forum long ago. I did the unforgivable:

After getting quite a few rejections, I deleted everything I'd written. I mean EVERYTHING. The work under submission, all my WIPs, all versions of everything I was working on. Then I quit writing for about a couple of years.

When I decided to start again, I've had to start from scratch. It ain't pretty.

[Mr. Anonymous]

I generally don't hate anything I've written, but I've noticed I often get numb to it after a while. I especially notice this with humor. It's supposed to be funny, people tell me it is, I can point out the points that ARE funny, but after a while there's hardly even a smile on my face.

[Arkie]

Seems to me it's time to let someone read it. Unless you're in the middle of Wyoming and have to take a plane to town, there must be someone in your neighborhood that's a reader. A retiree that reads a lot, preferably a former English teacher, would be good. One of the best readers I ever had was a 10th grade girl. She could spot a plot hole quicker than you could say Ernest Hemingway. My brother, reader of books by the sackful, is brutally honest. He traumatized me a time or two. But let someone read it.

[BlueLucario]

I think the best advice I can come up with is: Show your work to someone else.

[SouthernFriedJulie]

If you put it away, don't put it away for too long. If mine were on paper, seriously, I could grow some very nice baking potatoes in the accumulated dust.

Stepping away for a break is fine, but losing your direction can happen. Don't do that. I agree with the 'I hate my writing' deal. The very best writers would happily take a match to their best work!

[Matera the Mad]

Tyoical case of MMISS (My Manuscript Is Shit Syndrome). Goes with the territory :D

And I think that Swordswoman is very wise ;)

[The Lonely One]

I am losing the will to live with my MS. I have edited it so much that I now hate it. I want to set fire to it in the garden and dance around it under a full moon. Honestly. Now I'm looking at it and thinking the whole thing is rubbish. How can I expect anyone else to like it if I hate it? How do I know anyone will find the plot remotely interesting? What if I've finally gotten to the end of the process and it was a waste of time after all? AAAAARRRGGGGHHHH......!!!!!!!

There is the great possibility either you've just been too close to the work to properly fix what's been ailing it, or you are missing certain tools in the editor's toolbox to make it work. Move on and draft some other stories, poems, what have you. It keeps you fresh, and gives you distance.

Then go back, have people read it, get professional opinions who have their own toolboxes (not jus' your mammy :)), edit it honestly, STEAL some of their tools for the future, and see where you are.

[JenniferDZ]

I'm so intent on cutting away the word count I'm starting to hack away at some of the good stuff I should probably keep, so I need to get some perspective, methinks...

Definitely be careful of what you cut. Save an uncut version if you can. I had an essay that I just loved, but then I found out that essays aren't generally as long as mine was. I started cutting, but then got nowhere with it. I went back to it after the requisite "setting aside" and re-read...and it was terrible! I had cut out the parts that made it hang together. I recommend tightening up your writing before you start cutting content. With the writing tighter, you'll be able to see better what really needs to be cut.

Jennifer DZ

[backslashbaby]

LOL, I just did the Hate It So Much thing yesterday/today. I knew it needed something but couldn't see what. One beta and I discussed what was left out (in my case) and now I'm excited about the additions and that part of the story :)

If you can find someone who can see your story as you do, snatch them up and let them help in times like these. Yes, they are hard to find, but well worth the search.

[fringle]

I understand. I'm constantly on a roller coaster of I-love-it....I-hate-it...and so on and so forth. But the only way to find out if your work will be good in the end is to actually reach the end.
To quote Dory from Finding Nemo, "Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming."

[apathysam]

I'm going to push through with this godforsaken edit and then probably let it fester for a few days.

I'd still leave it alone for more than a few days. Three weeks at least. One of the most gratifying sensations is reading something you wrote a while ago and realizing it's actually pretty good. Of course there'll be other sections that'll make you wince... but that just helps you realize what to edit.

If it's only a few days, everything still feels too familiar.

[Vimes]

I actually had an agent read it who really liked it and worked with me on an edit of the full, but then she left agenting before I nailed down the representation, and the one who took over said she liked most things about it but it was too long. By about a zillion words. I don't know how it ended up so unwieldy- I always used to under-write on the wordcount!

I've hacked away 10,000 words by tightening, but need to get rid of another 10,000 (it was 120,000 to begin with), so need to start cutting content, just like you say Jennifer DZ. I've read it so many times now that the plot seems utterly predictable, I know every line of dialogue coming up and every twist around the corner that it's driving me mad! Now all I see is drivel, and I can't make my mind up about what on earth to cut next so I've been slashing away at everything (thankfully I have all my other versions saved!) But still, I'd really like to throw the thing out the bl**dy window!

I think everyone's right- I will push on with a cohesive edit, then find some other poor soul to read it for me- hopefully in the meantime I will get a bit of distance from it while they read it (it will probably be family reading it and they take about a thousand years to read anything I write... maybe they're trying to tell me something!)

[C.M.C.]

We all need to step back at times and remember that not everything that we come up with is going to be great. Writing is like diamond mining; you have to sort through tons of dirt to find one gem.

[Izz]

Ah, the I Hate My Writing feeling. IMO that's a good thing to have, every so often. Means you're always looking to get better.

I second the leave it for a week or so after you've finished current edits. Time always gives fresh perspective. While you're letting it sit maybe write some random short fiction, read a couple books. I guarantee it won't look quite as bad when you come back to it, and you'll find the problem areas you do have much easier to fix.

[cbenoi1]

> How do I know anyone will find the plot remotely interesting?

Beta readers.

The Old Man And The Sea. Man vs fish. Boring plot. Interesting read.

-cb

[lmz]

I sympathize. I feel the same way many, many, many times. Even all in one day.

My biggest frustration is wondering what I should be improving, and unknowingly am not.

Although I love AW completely, and appreciate every and all critiques, sometimes it's hard for me to keep in mind that I'm getting opinions, and nothing anyone says is what's in my head.

Only I know, ultimately, what I need to change, what I need to keep, if I'm using my voice, or (heaven forbid) losing it.

So what I guess I'm trying to say is...write for yourself. Like what you write. Oh yeah, and don't get so upset. :)

[socact]

I don't show my work to other people because of the sex scenes - is that weird? I get this feeling that people I know tend to confuse the writer with the characters...ugh.

Are there people on here who are willing to read entire manuscripts? Anyone have any ideas?

I haven't chucked an entire manuscript yet, but I'm sure I'll hit that milestone someday. ;)

[lmz]

Yes, there are people on here willing to read entire manuscripts. Check out the beta readers forum.

[Swordswoman]

Vimes, how can you even ask if your book's any good if an agent was not only prepared to read the full m/s but actually work with you on revisions? Validation doesn't come much higher than that. Trust me, YOUR BOOK IS GOOD.

I still understand the hating-it, though, especially after a mammoth cut. If that's what's happened, then I second what others have said about giving it a long rest before you read it again. When I had to cut my first book in half (!!!) I was still mourning the material that had gone and found myself incapable of judging the impact of what was left. I couldn't even see if the flow worked any more, because I was remembering passages that no longer existed. Give yourself time to forget, and it'll be fine.

I know it must have been a crushing disappointment to lose a potential agent when you got so close, and I really do feel for you on that. But if one agent liked it when it still needed this much work, just think how much the next one is going to love it...

Louise

[socact]

I'll check that out. Thanks, lmz.

[lmz]

you are most certainly welcome!

[BlueLucario]

Any advice for one who is still in the first draft stage?

[scarletpeaches]

Yes. Keep going 'til the end and then worry about making it good.

[C.J. Rockwell]

Put the aim n' flame down, stick it in a drawer and back away.

Now, let it set for a week, and take another look.

Lather - rinse - repeat until the homicidal urge has passed. Then get some new eyes on it. Let someone else read it (preferably someone who doesn't know you); you can put a piece of it up here in Share Your Work.

Outside eyes see clearer than yours where things need work sometimes.

This is why I'll always believe when editors, agents, and articles say, "YOU are you own best editor" they're lying.:Soapbox:

Or at least in denial.

Why else does editing/rewriting effectively take a minimum of 10 years?

[scarletpeaches]

Ask thethinker42. She wrote, edited and sold a novel in under a month.

[BlueLucario]

This is why I'll always believe when editors, agents, and articles say, "YOU are you own best editor" they're lying.:Soapbox:

Or at least in denial.

Why else does editing/rewriting effectively take a minimum of 10 years?
I'd love to finish a book in a month. I just...can't.

[SarahMacManus]

I get that too, I believe it's normal (under the circumstances).
My last piece went out on a few queries LONG before it was ready, probably because I was just so bloody sick of the characters. It really should have gotten a massive edit first. I've put it aside for a long while now and may be ready to do those edits. But by the end of it I hated the characters and everything they stood for. :)

[C.J. Rockwell]

I'd love to finish a book in a month. I just...can't.

Amen to that!

Or for the non-religous folks-

Word.

[Parametric]

I'd love to finish a book in a month. I just...can't.

Uh-uh. There is no can't in writing, only haven't yet.

[C.J. Rockwell]

Uh-uh. There is no can't in writing, only haven't yet.

...I guess-

But it CAN be trying at times.

If you have been able to achieve this goal-

I bow to you. (Virtually on my hands and knees)

[scarletpeaches]

Sure, my last post took it to extremes but my point was, editing doesn't have to take a long time.

It takes work, yes, but not necessarily ages.

[Bubastes]

I'd love to finish a book in a month. I just...can't.

Blue, you've received plenty of advice on how to finish what you start. What have you finished in the past year? As many people on AW have gently (and not so gently) suggested, stop looking for constant reassurance and answers to unanswerable questions. None of this stuff gets your WIP closer to the finish line.

[Parametric]

...I guess-

But it CAN be trying at times.

If you have been able to achieve this goal-

I bow to you. (Virtually on my hands and knees)

No, I also bow to thethinker42 - I've written 55k in a month, 30k in a fortnight, that kind of thing, but I've yet to write an entire novel that fast. (I also have the advantage of being a student, which I appreciate is practically cheating in terms of having huge amounts of free time for writing.)

My point was more that when something is entirely possible, saying you can't do it is defeatist. If you try and fail, well ... you need to try again. :)

[thethinker42]

No, I also bow to thethinker42 - I've written 55k in a month, 30k in a fortnight, that kind of thing, but I've yet to write an entire novel that fast. (I also have the advantage of being a student, which I appreciate is practically cheating in terms of having huge amounts of free time for writing.)

LOL Thanks. ;)

My point was more that when something is entirely possible, saying you can't do it is defeatist. If you try and fail, well ... you need to try again. :)

I absolutely agree. I "couldn't" write a novel that fast either 6 months ago. I had just finished my fantasy novel, which took 10 years and 3 full rewrites to finish.

Then came November: Did NaNo, something clicked, and I found my groove. Since then I've written 8 first drafts, finished 2 massive overhauls/rewrites, and gotten 3 manuscripts onto editor's desks besides the one I sold.

The biggest thing that clicked? I stopped telling myself I "couldn't" do anything. Who says I can't write a novel in a short period of time? Who says I can't edit it quickly? It knocked down all kinds of self-imposed obstacles and limitations, and I finally had the freedom (from myself) to write.

Now, I also write full-time, something I couldn't do 6 months ago. That makes a difference, of course, but a lot of it was mindset. I stopped looking for shortcuts, magic feathers, and reasons to allow myself to take longer/not write/etc.

You have to write/edit at your own pace, whatever works for YOU to get the words on paper, get the story told, and get it to an editor in polished form. Don't worry about what anyone else does. If it takes you 10 years...fine. If you can do it in 10 days...go for it.

If you tell yourself you can't do it, I can 100% guarantee that you won't.
Mindset is extremely important, especially with writing.

Bottom line is: DO IT.