Making up swear words?

[Shinryu]

So I was writing my novel, and everything was going smoothly until I needed the MC to swear. The problem is, I don't want to use normal curses. (This is a fantasy novel, after all...)

I was wondering if the same problem had happened to anyone here, and how they solved it. All the ones I come up with sound absolutely ridiculous.

[jerry phoenix]

write down some well known anglosaxon expletives and mix them up. try some from french or german or any language you fancy and mix them up. or you could just use your imagination and come up with something that sounds rude.

isnt FRAK brilliant.

[archerjoe]

There was a movie with made up swearing. It had old-time mobsters cursing badly. I can't remember the name of it is Johnny Dangerously

Farging bastages!

[James D. Macdonald]

The problem with made-up (particularly fantasy) swearing is that it usually sounds silly.

The best way to show [expletive deleted] if you don't want to use the [expletive] words is by getting the rhythm in the dialog right, and by getting the emotions in the speaker and the listeners right.

[BlueLucario]

You can just use normal words as curse words in your story world.

For example, george can be a curse word. Or cat. Or Fork

WHAT THE FORK IS WRONG WITH YOU??? SHUT THE FORK UP! FORK YOU!

I don't give a fork.

[Nakhlasmoke]

My personal feeling is that made-up swearwords mostly just feel lame.

[NeuroFizz]

I'll agree with Uncle Jim--it's advice to take to the bank with regards to dialogue in general. I'll also add that this (cussing versus non-cussing) can be used as a powerful writing tool. But it requires that you have some forward vision of your story. If a person goes throught the story using dang instead of damn and heck instead of hell every time he/she is presented with a sticky situation, you have a valuable tool in your toolbox. If you have thus established this person as a non-cusser, you can really ramp up a tense scene of extreme stress/anger for that character by having him/her come out with a string or real curse words, including the F-bomb. That will show the other characters in the scene (and really show the reader) just how extreme this situation is for this character. And it will require little or no additional explanation of the degree of stress/anger.

[Exir]

For example, george can be a curse word. Or cat. Or Fork


LOL! :roll:

[Clair Dickson]

You call grass grass, sky sky, and so on. You likely have people say 'hello' and 'goodbye'. Far as I'm concerned, you can use damn or hell (or other curse words) the same way. Why reinvent the wheel? And usually, made ups swear words just sound silly, or, worse, like the author chickened out because mom might ground them for using bad words!

I hate made up swear words. And I hate when fantasy stories can't call something by the same word when everything is clearly English. My two cents.

[Manix]

They can always swear in the name of their deity (since it's fantasy) or in the name of [famous hero]'s [body part] Use your imagination :D

I had fun doing this in my work.

[Timoun]

Author Larry Niven wrote many great sci-fi and fantasy books without using a lot of conventional English swear words and avoiding the F-word altogether, and managed (I think, anyway) to make the swearing sound real.

[Eric San Juan]

Fictional swear words almost never have any impact and almost always read as silly. The only one that springs to mind that actually works is "frak," and that's only because the actors busted their ass to sell it. And even THEN it took a while for it to really click. Not a fan of it at all. Usually takes me out of a story.

[willietheshakes]

You call grass grass, sky sky, and so on. You likely have people say 'hello' and 'goodbye'. Far as I'm concerned, you can use damn or hell (or other curse words) the same way. Why reinvent the wheel? And usually, made ups swear words just sound silly, or, worse, like the author chickened out because mom might ground them for using bad words!

I hate made up swear words. And I hate when fantasy stories can't call something by the same word when everything is clearly English. My two cents.

I agree with you in principle BUT, to my mind at least, care must be taken, ESPECIALLY with the two examples you give -- damn and hell. I mean, "fuck" and "shit" are fine, because they're rooted in the body and physical actions and, unless your characters aren't human, they have a footing in that sphere (IE, everybody shits, so an expletive based on that is a natural).

"Damn" and "hell" however rooted in a deep, ingrained (at a cultural level) Judeo-Christian cosmology and consciousness -- "hell" as an expletive doesn't work unless there's a physical hell (theoretically) which is being referenced. With fantasy writing, so much depends on the world building -- what if that society doesn't have a monotheistic belief system? What if their belief system doesn't include a hell? Use of "hell" and "damn" and the like when they are not an outgrowth of the cosmology run the risk of pulling the reader out of the story...

[Manix]

I agree with you in principle BUT, to my mind at least, care must be taken, ESPECIALLY with the two examples you give -- damn and hell. I mean, "fuck" and "shit" are fine, because they're rooted in the body and physical actions and, unless your characters aren't human, they have a footing in that sphere (IE, everybody shits, so an expletive based on that is a natural).

"Damn" and "hell" however rooted in a deep, ingrained (at a cultural level) Judeo-Christian cosmology and consciousness -- "hell" as an expletive doesn't work unless there's a physical hell (theoretically) which is being referenced. With fantasy writing, so much depends on the world building -- what if that society doesn't have a monotheistic belief system? What if their belief system doesn't include a hell? Use of "hell" and "damn" and the like when they are not an outgrowth of the cosmology run the risk of pulling the reader out of the story...
This is why I chose to use made up swear words in my fantasy novel. The "traditional" concepts of what would constitute a swear word didn't make sense in their world. Their concept of religion was a bit...um...unusual.

[ChristineR]

When you say "swear," do you mean literally swearing, or do you mean cursing, or obscenity?

Swearing is something like "By the holy hammer of Lucretia, I swear that I will see your corpse rot on the hot sands of Meltovia!"

Cursing is "I invoke the wrath of Lord Melvin upon you and your inbred family!"

Obscenity is four letter words referring to biological functions best kept private. If you mean you want obscenity, you can always just refer to the biological functions in a colorful way. "Whore's privates!" "Foul farts!"

Mine do sound pretty funny though, so maybe you can tone them down.

[Cyia]

You can just use normal words as curse words in your story world.

For example, george can be a curse word. Or cat. Or Fork

WHAT THE FORK IS WRONG WITH YOU??? SHUT THE FORK UP! FORK YOU!

I don't give a fork.

Oh... smurf off. ;)

Slightly off topic, there's an older children's book whose title I always thought would make a great curse word for a wizard in kid-fantasy. Not sure if it's a well known title, but I could always see a wizard getting frustrated and coming out with "Hailstones and Halibut bones".

Maybe it's because the words sound *almost* like H^ll -- kind of like a kid who's not allowed to say bullsh^t saying "poodle doodle". To a four year old, it feels like they've gotten away with something, but to the adults it's more a matter of laughing too hard to punish them.

You have to make sure that the words make sense in context and not just to you. As someone said, Frak works great. Nerf-herder... not so much.

[James D. Macdonald]

Just please don't have polytheists swearing "by the gods." Polytheists generally swear by one or another particular god (e.g. "by Aphrodite").

I did once manage to get the equivalent of "Holy shit!" into a Comics Code comic book, by having a Roman soldier look over the wall, spot advancing barbarian hordes, and say, "Holy Cloacina!"

[SarahMacManus]

So I was writing my novel, and everything was going smoothly until I needed the MC to swear. The problem is, I don't want to use normal curses. (This is a fantasy novel, after all...)

I was wondering if the same problem had happened to anyone here, and how they solved it. All the ones I come up with sound absolutely ridiculous.

Anne McCaffrey did it in her dragon series. She used expletives involving something in her world that was considered distasteful and bad, that doesn't exist in our world.

Whatever words you use would have to make sense in that world, and not be random made up words.

[Cyia]

Sacre poop?

[DeadlyAccurate]

Fictional swear words almost never have any impact and almost always read as silly. The only one that springs to mind that actually works is "frak," and that's only because the actors busted their ass to sell it. And even THEN it took a while for it to really click. Not a fan of it at all. Usually takes me out of a story.

I never liked frak, and I absolutely hated motherfrakker. But in Firefly, I absolutely loved gorram. That was an expletive I could take a gorram liking to.

[RJK]

The very best made up swear words came from the movie, A Christmas Story. Darren McGavin's character was a true artist in profanity, as the narrator said. There was not one true word in all of his dialog.
And yes, Uncle Jim, it was funny,

[Clair Dickson]

I agree with you in principle BUT, to my mind at least, care must be taken, ESPECIALLY with the two examples you give -- damn and hell. I mean, "fuck" and "shit" are fine, because they're rooted in the body and physical actions and, unless your characters aren't human, they have a footing in that sphere (IE, everybody shits, so an expletive based on that is a natural).

"Damn" and "hell" however rooted in a deep, ingrained (at a cultural level) Judeo-Christian cosmology and consciousness -- "hell" as an expletive doesn't work unless there's a physical hell (theoretically) which is being referenced. With fantasy writing, so much depends on the world building -- what if that society doesn't have a monotheistic belief system? What if their belief system doesn't include a hell? Use of "hell" and "damn" and the like when they are not an outgrowth of the cosmology run the risk of pulling the reader out of the story...

And Goodbye is a derivative of god-be-with-you, which I guess in a fantasy without gods can't be used?

Hey, if you think that the reader is going to nitpick the etymology of the words, then don't use them. I just put in my two cents. I wouldn't think much of using damn, hell, or even Jeez (A derivative/ corruption of Jesus.) or many other curses or even words that I'm sure most people don't even think about being Judeo-Christian.

Made up curses usually pull me out of the story-- unless they are very carefully done based on the world. Usually, sadly, it's just a stand-in (such as fragging for f*cking which I just hate.)

[BlueLucario]

You know, in Harry Potter. The name "Voldemort" was a swear word. So that makes Harry a potty mouth.

[Cyia]

Actually, damnation isn't just a religious concept, it's a variation on condemnation - a legal concept. "damn" could be perfectly permissible in fantasy so long as there is a legal justice system with the right to condemn a guilty man to a horrible fate.

[Rushie]

Made up curses usually pull me out of the story-- unless they are very carefully done based on the world. Usually, sadly, it's just a stand-in (such as fragging for f*cking which I just hate.)

ME TOO!

[Manix]

Usually, sadly, it's just a stand-in (such as fragging for f*cking which I just hate.)

Yes, a timely fragging in a piece of literature is very powerful and effective.

[James D. Macdonald]

When Normal Mailer wrote The Naked and the Dead (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0312265050/ref=nosim/madhousemanor/) some words were literally unprintable. That's why he had his soldiers saying "fug."

[C.bronco]

They could say, "Expletive!"

[adktd2bks]

This reminds me of how the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles always say "What the shell?"

[willietheshakes]

And Goodbye is a derivative of god-be-with-you, which I guess in a fantasy without gods can't be used?

Hey, if you think that the reader is going to nitpick the etymology of the words, then don't use them. I just put in my two cents.

Skipped over the part where I said I agreed with you, did you?

[vrabinec]

Invariably, I laugh when I hear made up cuss words. It always reminds me of Mork and Mindy, Robin Williams yelling, "Shazbat!"

[James D. Macdonald]

Invariably, I laugh when I hear made up cuss words. It always reminds me of Mork and Mindy, Robin Williams yelling, "Shazbat!"

Or Yosemite Sam.

[Phaeal]

A "made-up" expletive that works is in Ira Levin's This Perfect Day, which posits a society in which the vast majority of humans have been pharmaceutically and genetically manipulated into peacefulness. For these humans, "fuck" is perfectly acceptable, whereas "fight" is a shocking swear word. "Fight Uni" (Uni being the computer controlling the system) is the battlecry and battle-graffito of the few drug-resistant humans. It works at once on the literal level and as profanity.

[Adam]

If done right, it's fine. Just experiment with a bunch of words until you find some that suit.

Look at Red Dwarf for example.

Smeg you, you smegging smegger.

;)

[seun]

If done right, it's fine. Just experiment with a bunch of words until you find some that suit.

Look at Red Dwarf for example.

Smeg you, you smegging smegger.

;)

Bear in mind, smeg isn't a made up word. It's a shortened form of smegma.

[Adam]

Bear in mind, smeg isn't a made up word. It's a shortened form of smegma.

Good point. I should have said that they used an existing word in a new way.

My mistake.

[seun]

Good point. I should have said that they used an existing word in a new way.

My mistake.

Smeghead. :D

[Adam]

Smeghead. :D

Pfft, goit! ;)

[benbradley]

I think we're getting somewhere. The most effective "new obscenities" are ordinary words (perhaps medical words relating to nether regions) or derivatives used in a social context that makes them obscene.

I recall Larry Niven's "Ringworld" in which tanj is an obscenity, and somewhere in the novel the derivation is given, it's an acronym for "there ain't no justice." But still I think it takes more of a suspension of disbelief to accept the emotion-neutral random string of letters tanj. Smeg, and fight as used in the Ira Levin story, are better examples, IMHO.

ETA: Some interesting examples of discussing explicit and "obscene" topics without using all the usual obscene words can be found in the lyrics of Frank Zappa. And sometimes he just leads you to the IDEA of obscenity but doesn't even go there, as in "What's the dirtiest part of your body?"

[fringle]

Ok, my kids go around saying "Mother of Pearl!" from SpongeBob Square Pants and I crack up everytime.

[James D. Macdonald]

"Smegma" means "soap" in Greek.

[Adam]

Funny, since that comes in handy for-

I'll shush. :D

[loiterer]

In Diana Wynne Jones' book "Wilkins' Tooth"--a middle-grade book--the character Buster swears continuously, and colourfully. Literally colourfully. Blue, and purple and orange. And the word 'blank'. Blanking purple blank. Clearly taking the piss out of the whole thing.

[Shinryu]

Wow, I didn't think this topic would get this many responses! O_o Thanks, guys, this really helps a lot! :)

[RavenCorinnCarluk]

I'm also a fan of narrating the swearing, rather than sticking it in the dialogue. Like this: Bob swore colorfully; She uttered a phrase that would make a sailor blush; Carrie suggested he do something anatomically impossible. Then you don't have to come up with a powerful expletive, and the reader can fill in whatever vile thing they want.

Just don't make FX's mistake when trying to cover a normal curse word (like they did with Snakes on a Plane): I'm tired of these monkey-fighting snakes on this monday-to-friday plane. It's just stupid, and ridiculous. Childish even. If you want to use a "bad" word, either use it or don't.

[Timoun]

silflay h'raka u embleer rah

[Kazel]

I think that made up swear words can work sometimes. I don't think tanj, smeg ect necessarily work because they are just a string of random letters, but things more rooted in the world can work. Steven Brust's character Vlad tends to swear by saying "Verra's tits" (Verra being his goddess). I think it works because its not just an obvious sub in for shit or fuck. It's used in situations where we may say "oh shit" but not as a direct substitution. He also uses it to say "by Verra's tits" or "sure as Verra's tits" I suppose as a substitution for "by god" and "sure as shit" respectively.
It seems like if the swearing is worked into the world, then it's seamless and doesn't stick out. If its obviously just a substitution for an existing word, then it sticks out like a sore thumb as silly and childish.

[djf881]

Any word the reader doesn't know requires explanation and wastes time.

If the character is supposedly speaking a different language, then your translation of it is presumptively imprecise, since a word-for-word translation likely wouldn't be grammatical in English.

If your concern is that the modern swear words sound out of place in the fantasy dialog, or if you are writing for a younger audience, then the solution is to avoid swearing entirely. Fake words seem contrived and are jarring. They disrupt rather than facilitate suspension of disbelief.

Plain, conversational language is always the most transparent mechanism for storytelling. Ornate language, odd construction and contrived words just make things more difficult.

A number of widely used translations of works like "The Iliad" incorporate modern profanity because these are the most succinct and readable terms to preserve the original meaning.

If you're going to have a fake language, it should be a fake language, and not just nonsense. Tolkien was a linguist, and the "Star Trek" producers hired professors to develop the Klingon language. If you are not a linguist, you lack the knowledge base to do this properly, and your Elvish or alien words will wind up being constructed of Latin roots, or else they will be random strings of letters.

[Paichka]

silflay h'raka u embleer rah

*squee!*

This is my favorite! :)

My characters swear colorfully, or give each other rude suggestions on where they might put various large and awkwardly shaped objects.

One of my character is rather fond of "balls!". Simple, effective. No fuss, no mess.

[Kathleen42]

Stephen R Donaldson made up swear phrases for Morrdant's Need including "Glass and splinters!" and "Sand and tinct!" Mirrors (and their making) feature prominently in the world (hence they're used as the basis of the exprensions).

[RiseBeauty]

Oh... smurf off. ;)

Slightly off topic, there's an older children's book whose title I always thought would make a great curse word for a wizard in kid-fantasy. Not sure if it's a well known title, but I could always see a wizard getting frustrated and coming out with "Hailstones and Halibut bones".

Maybe it's because the words sound *almost* like H^ll -- kind of like a kid who's not allowed to say bullsh^t saying "poodle doodle". To a four year old, it feels like they've gotten away with something, but to the adults it's more a matter of laughing too hard to punish them.

You have to make sure that the words make sense in context and not just to you. As someone said, Frak works great. Nerf-herder... not so much.

Wow Cyia! I thought I was the only one that knew about that book! Yes, it does sound like a pretty good expletive, lol.

I am loving this thread because I am in a similar situation but my story takes place in the 1980's (no sci-fi/fantasy). I had the obstacle of not overwhelming the reader with language they already know and get bored with quickly. My MC is a potty mouth and so are his friends (I'm not though). It has been a challenge to keep expletives interesting. And making them up just to make up obscenity never sounds inspired but forced. This can turn what is intended as a powerful statement of anger/frustration/whatever into a (bad) joke.

I agree with BenBradley, ordinary words work depending on how they are used. Think about it. Who would think that crack and smack could be street names for drugs? Which birthed smackhead, crack whore, etc.

Shinryu: Since yours is a fantasy setting, think of the world designed in your story and what is distateful, low life, taboo or considered 'private'...then think about what your characters can tell people to do with them, vial actions, or calling others by those names, and mix these up. In trying to solve this problem myself I listened to people that curse/swear a lot, when and where and how they do, and broke what I heard down to the basics. When shocked or suddenly frustrated (like stubbing a toe) one single shouted word comes out. When angry in an argument people start name calling, telling others where they can go, and what they can do when they get there, and also where they can shove things.

Generally, expletives and obscenity take the form of some taboo, mix it with action (preferably repulsive), and then a command. Up your___, go __ yourself, ___ you, ___! I told him to ____,____, and put it ____. ___!

Obscenity is 'getting in the gutter', and finding what the gutter is in your story gets you going in a direction that leads somewhere believable. Of course these depend on the circumstances but mixing some degraded action with commands and taboos or speaking the unspeakable get something going that fits in nicely :) That is the framework I've been using lately for making something obscene. Words like hammer and slug have turned out to be quite offensive in my story when the characters use them the way they do.

Anyway I hope this makes sense. I've been up most of the night working on edits for a submission and am pretty bleary-eyed.

[LuckyH]

I think it depends on what you're writing. If it's a modern tale, perhaps of the street and street language, you would have to use the words that real people use, I find the substitutes suggested ineffective.

It's different writing for children and possibly in fantasy, although I'm not sure about the latter.

Surely, if you're afraid to write down the words everybody else uses every day, how can you cope with anything other than the simplest situations in life? And who wants to read about those?

I think it's akin to writing about sex, it happens and therefore has to be written about. To break what little obscenity laws remain today, you would have write something truly awful, and I can't even think of a single example (and if I did, I wouldn't post it here).

[SilverBirch]

I agree with what has been said about "damn" and "hell" and other swears rooted firmly in cultures/worldviews that have nothing to with the setting of my own fantasy world. And I also agree that 99.9% of made-up swear words are hilarious (the exception in my mind being "frell" - good old Farscape).

In my fantasy(ish) novel, I addressed the whole matter in narrative: X turned away and swore. When that absolutely didn't work, I fell back on "curse": "Curse them!" X kicked at the dirt. Nothing brilliant, but it doesn't shatter the tension or the worldview.

Just 2¢ from a newbie :)

[LOG]

If it's a fantasy, that means you can create your world where real curses are applicable, i.e. introduce the concept of an underworld where you are punished, that gives you 'd***' right there. Doesn't matter if it's actually a real version of Hell, just the idea of going down, or corruption.

[backslashbaby]

I don't write fantasy or for kids, but I thought of one I like:

Rot. Go rot somewhere. Rotting losers. Ah, what rot!

Of course, things have to rot in your world, but if they do, it should work, imho.

[Euan H.]

"Damn" and "hell" however rooted in a deep, ingrained (at a cultural level) Judeo-Christian cosmology and consciousness -- "hell" as an expletive doesn't work unless there's a physical hell (theoretically) which is being referenced.

This is true for origin, but damn and hell now have interpersonal meanings quite separate from their literal ones.

[/sidetrack]

OTOH, though, I agree about the bodily function vs. belief system swearing. You could try to work out the belief system of the inhabitants of the secondary world and then try and work out what would be unclean or sth. to be avoided and then try and find a word that fits . . . but it's still going to sound odd, though, because the force of swearing comes from use and experience.

Swearing based on the body, though, would be universal (ish), I would guess. You can see it when you try and translate swearing. For example, 'yet mae' in Thai => 'copulate with your mother', which is bad. And 'maa si mae meung' => 'dogs copulate with your mother', is even worse. But while calling someone 'ai-heeya' in Thai would get you punched, calling someone a 'monitor lizard' in English wouldn't have quite the same effect.