Disagreeing with your agent

[Sage]

I just got my revision letter from my agent. This is for my first novel (not first written, but the one he offered representation for). And I just hate some of these suggestions.

Now, let me say, that I'm not anti-revising. I don't think this novel is perfect. I actually had ideas for big changes that I brought up to him based on his initial, "this part is weak," when we spoke. Major change-the-entire-beginning-and-cut-out-a-character changes. The character I wanted to cut is the catalyst for the action in the novel, which is why cutting her would be difficult, but I figured I could work around that. Mostly I felt that she muddies up the real love triangle for my MC, and doesn't do what I meant for her to do in the beginning because she fails as a character for that, and while I'm totally willing to do girl-girl romance, it just didn't work out for this character.

But he wants me to cut out a different character. Not a useless character or a minor character. This is a character my MC spends half the book with. He's also one of the two main love interests and the one she ends up with. My agent wants me to cut him and have the MC end up with the more minor character (the one I was suggesting I cut). The MC's attraction to her is very superficial. Out of all my betas (and I've had a lot), not a single one wanted the MC to end up with her, and most wanted the MC to end up with the one my agent wants cut.

The character he wants me to cut is much better developed, possibly the best developed character in the novel. The chemistry between the two of them is great, and is in fact why he ends up getting the girl (she was supposed to end up with the other guy in the love triangle). Their relationship has some great inherent metaphors in it.

While I'm not anti-revising, I am kinda against rewriting the entire novel from scratch. And I'm pretty sure that cutting his character, developing the relationship with the more minor character, and changing her personality so it could be something real, PLUS the other revisions he suggested would require starting at square one.

So when your agent makes suggestions that you just think are wrong (or leave you wondering what he liked about the book in the first place), do you go back to him and try to negotiate? I don't want to come across as a difficult writer (in fact another agent before I accepted this one's offer commented on how open I was to her revisions). He could have asked me to cut any other character in the book except the MC and the two guys in the main triangle and I would've made it work. Other suggestions he made are going to be difficult, but I'm ready and willing to do them. I just can't imagine how this one serves the book.

[YAwriter72]

I ran into this. My agent wanted to cut a huge plot point that would have eliminated half the book. I was sick. Then after talking to a couple of people, realized I didn't have to concede everything. He had some REALLY good points that I agreed with, so I sent back an email telling him I liked this, this and this, but really felt I wanted to keep the plot point intact. (He also wanted my MC to end up with one guy while I had her end up with who I wanted her with-as did all my CP's!) I argued my point, said I would make the attraction less between her and other guy and we reached a compromise.

But I was really upset at first until I got it into my head, I didn't HAVE to accept any of the suggestions. Its a compromise, you need to rationally explain why you need them there. Good luck! I will admit freely that the book was SO MUCH better after all the revisions, he was right about a lot of it!

[Nateskate]

Wow? That must be frustrating. If you feel so strong about this, and you know a reliable third party, I'd ask their opinion.

In your case, it's not like you're shooting in the dark. You have an agent, so they must've seen something good in the story, especially to invest so much into it.

If you had a track record of several published books, you would have leverage, and could argue it's just salt-to-taste. The agent obviously has a vested interest here, as do you. That's why I think another pair of eyes may help you sort this out. Maybe a creative writing prof or someone very credible. Then they will either confirm this other person's point, or affirm your own, giving you more confidence to make your case.

[ChristineR]

Why can't you tell him what you've told us and ask him what he feels about your suggestions? If you can give him good reasons why it should be your way, then he'll either give you good reasons you're wrong, or agree with you. Make it clear to him that you'll do it his way if it comes to that. And for all you know, he suggested cutting out character A because he thought that you wanted to cut out character A when all along he would have preferred cutting character B. Or maybe he wants it to end girl/girl, so maybe you can do it your way if you just make B a girl. Or maybe there's a great scene in the novel with character A that he really wants you to keep, and you just have to give that scene to a different character.

You really won't know any of this until you ask.

[Little Bird]

Sage, that sounds really tough.

I, too, am newly agented and working on requested revisions.

When I first read the editorial letter from my agent I was shocked. My ms is YA? WHAT?

My initial gut reaction to many of the requested changes was, Oh, no! Please, no! But in my case, once I thought it through for awhile, I adjusted to the idea of writing for young adults, and realized the novel length must be reduced, and could see the benefits of removing certain parts.

HOWEVER: My agent wanted to explain my MC not participating in certain events in a way that I found utterly implausible. I thought of a way to cut what she wanted to cut, but to explain it in a much more plausible way.

So I thanked her for her helpful suggestions, pointing out every good thing I could think of about them, and then brought up the plausibility issue, and my proposed alternative. She said she loved my idea, and that it had some nice side-effects I hadn't even thought of.

Your case sounds a bit more difficult. When I found myself feeling resistance to her suggestions, I asked myself if this was really going to hurt my story, in terms of reader enjoyment, sales, etc. In my case, the only time I could say "yes" to that was with the one implausible suggestion.

I'd suggest asking yourself whether it's okay with you to write what may be a very different story, knowing that you've got an agent behind it who's willing to try to sell it that way. It's a question only you can answer.

If your answer is "yes," then ask yourself whether the version of the story your agent suggests could be an enjoyable read.

I don't think it would be out of line to ask your agent what appealed to her most about your story/ your writing. My agent told me what she loved about mine, and the changes make sense in light of that. While I didn't see that strength in the story on my own, I can see it clearly now, and see its appeal to others. The requested changes enhance this part of the story.

While it's important not to sound whiny or difficult, and to remember an agent (like the rest of us) doesn't want to be told her ideas are garbage, I don't think you have to remain silent on this. Be as complimentary as possible, but ask your agent what she sees as the strong point of your work. If she hasn't already told you, ask for her reasons behind the suggested changes. If you know what she's trying to achieve, maybe you can come up with an alternative way to get the story there.

Much hugs!:Hug2:

[Sage]

Thanks, guys.

Little Bird, I do know what attracted him to the novel. He really loves the concept behind it. It's contemp fantasy, and he loves the fantasy "creatures" (they're mostly human ;)) and how they interact with the world. Every communication I've had with him includes how much he loves the plot idea.

What's funny is that this novel started out without the character he wants to cut, but I added him in a few chapters in. So I know more or less how it would look without the character, and I don't believe it's as good a novel. I felt it was way too simple a plot line until I added him in, and suddenly it was much more developed. But even then the MC ended up with the other guy, not with the girl. Making her end up with the girl would simplify it even more, and takes away a lot of the MC's growth over the course of the novel.

[Birol]

Have you talked to the agent?

[scope]

It sounds like you have a major problem on your hands -- an almost complete disagreement with many of the revisions suggested by your agent.

Since you disagree with her on what appears to be the fundamental essence of your story, I would suggest you try to arrange a face to face and tell her why it would you believe as you do. Should the agents stick to her guns you have a very difficult decision to make -- do what the agent wants, or tell her no. To say no is obviously difficult since the agent may lose heart in your work, so that's something you have to keep in mind. It could cause a mutually agreeable parting of the ways, and your need to find a new agent. While you must keep these things it mind, remember that the agent isn't demanding that you do anything, she's suggesting ways which she believes will make your work a more potentially salable work. In the end it's a decision only you can make, and it's a tough one. I wish you luck.

[Toothpaste]

Sage, there have been many a time I've disagreed with my agent/editor about their suggestions. The way that I find it best to handle it is of course to first discuss it with the agent. You need to understand why he is making this suggestion, what his ultimate goal is with it. Often times the reason itself makes a lot of sense, it's just their suggested execution that's the problem. Then see if you can come up with a way to solve the problem your agent is having but in a totally different way. You're the writer. I'm not trying to get all artsy and precious or arrogant. But the fact is, editors and agents see what needs to be fixed, it's your job to figure out how to do the fixing. They can offer suggestions, but that isn't their expertise.

Don't be too precious about it. Like I said, ask why. Understand why. And then see what you can do with this knowledge. If after all that you are still at an impasse, then it's time for another serious conversation with your agent explaining why you simply can't do what he wants.

[jimpickens]

This is why I've decided to go the non agent self publishing route.

[Stijn Hommes]

Try figuring out the reason the agent want that particular character cut. Perhaps you can find another way to address whatever the fault is he or she sees.

[IdiotsRUs]

You need to understand why he is making this suggestion, what his ultimate goal is with it. Often times the reason itself makes a lot of sense, it's just their suggested execution that's the problem. Then see if you can come up with a way to solve the problem your agent is having but in a totally different way.

OK, I haven't got an agent, but when my editor asked for changes she told me both what she wanted and why. On a couple of points I disagreed with the what / how, but could totally understand the why. Now these points weren't as major as yours but I think the point still stands.

Luckily when I sent revisions and said 'I did change this, but I thought this way worked better...' she agreed. For such a major revision, obviously you'd need to talk to your agent first. But if you can understand the why, you may be be able to discuss the how and come to an agreement. If you can't , then it's crunch time.

Good Luck

*hugs*

[Philip64]

Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. The solutions you have been offered may be a case in point. In truth, few agents (or indeed any third parties) can be expected to understand fully the implications of a particular change, especially when that change involves removing an element or character. You know the full significance of that element, and what may happen to the fabric of your book when that element is removed; but that's because you were there when it was all carefully assembled.

That said, it may be that your agent's suggestions have highlighted a genuine weakness. If so, it is probably best if you think how that weakness might be addressed. In my experience it's very rare for a third party who isn't a writer to come up with an optimal solution to a problem he or she may have sensed. (Which is why the best possible 'beta' reader is another writer). You need diplomacy and lateral thinking - diplomacy in acknowledging the problem, lateral thinking in fixing it in a way that doesn't threaten the integrity of the story.

http://thiswriterstale.blogspot.com/

[miles]

This is why I've decided to go the non agent self publishing route.

How'd that work out for you?:e2smack:

[ChaosTitan]

It's a pickle, Sage, and it sounds like you didn't know ahead of time the sort of changes your agent would ask for.

Talk to your agent. My offer of representation came with a breakdown of the changes my agent thought the book needed. Two of them were major. One I agreed with and has made the book insanely stronger for it (as well as adding more depth to my heroine). The second change I just couldn't do. So we talked on the phone about it. He told me why he thought the change was needed; I explained my side and offered other suggestions. We came to a compromise that worked.

If you truly think you are right, tell your agent why. Discuss both of your points of view on the change. Listen. Talk. See what happens.

*hugs*

[DeleyanLee]

Have you discussed with him WHY he thinks this will make the book stronger? If something doesn't make sense, it always helps to discover what the problem is and see if the suggestion will really solve it.

From what you describe, part of me wonders if this "best developed character in the novel" isn't stealing some part of your MC's thunder and casting a big shadow. If that's the real problem, then the answer might not to cut the "offeneding" character out but to boost the MC and maybe a couple other characters.

All commentary, even from an editor or agent, should be the opening of a dialogue. A compromise might not be as far off as you might fear.

True (though fifteenth hand) story:

A multi-published Romance author turned in her ms. When the comments came back from the editor, it was obvious that the editor absolutely hated the hero. Author calls up Editor and asks what's wrong, since Editor normally adores her heros. Editor says that he's crass, a complete worthless a$$hole and she can't stand them.

Through discussion, Author figures out that Editor's opinion of him completely changed at one scene early in the book. She looked at the scene, changed three words from the heroine's POV about her reaction to something hero says and sent the book back.

Editor called her up the next day and said he was the BEST hero Author had ever written.

A half-hour conversation and three words changed.

Open a dialogue and find out, as specifically as possible, where the problem lies.

[Little Bird]

It's a pickle, Sage, and it sounds like you didn't know ahead of time the sort of changes your agent would ask for.

Talk to your agent. My offer of representation came with a breakdown of the changes my agent thought the book needed. Two of them were major. One I agreed with and has made the book insanely stronger for it (as well as adding more depth to my heroine). The second change I just couldn't do. So we talked on the phone about it. He told me why he thought the change was needed; I explained my side and offered other suggestions. We came to a compromise that worked.



Ditto here. My offer was made in an editorial letter that basically said, "If you're willing to make these changes, I'd love to represent you."

The letter gave the reasons for the changes, and I came up with an alternative way to accomplish the same goal. Some family members told me "Just do what she wants," but I'm glad I brought up my concerns—My agent liked my ideas.

As a result of our back-and-forth, I came up with even more revision ideas that would make the story better.

If you communicate better in writing (especially when making a case), or if you're nervous, then consider e-mail rather than the phone. It worked for me.

[sunandshadow]

Agents and editors aren't gods, sometimes their suggestions are genuinely wrong. And a suggestion that might not be wrong in an absolute way might be wrong for a particular manuscript or author. My example: I submitted an outline for a graphic novel which was a historical fantasy set in an imaginary location. The editor who read it said I will buy this if you place it in the real historical setting of feudal Japan. I said, I don't like historicals that aren't fantasy, I don't know a damn thing about feudal Japan, and I suspect that if I researched it (which I didn't have time or desire to do) what I would find out would break the plot. How about if I develop my fantasy culture in more detail so the story feels more like a historical? She said no, do the research, if it breaks the plot, work around it. I said sorry, the story you want is not one I can write, I'll withdraw the outline. Call me if you ever want some fantasy. The moral of the story? That publisher went out of business a year later. *shrug*

[SPMiller]

There's someone on AW who says that a critic might be able to tell you what's wrong, but if they tell you how to fix it, they're often wrong.

[The Lonely One]

Wasn't that the mysterious Uncle Jim figure that comes around and scares off Tusken Raiders every so often?

[ccarver30]

I hope it works out... and if he is a stickler, you can always get another agent... (hopefully)

[Sage]

When I was deciding between this agent and one who wasn't offering (pre-revisions) but had given me very detailed ideas of what her revisions would entail, I asked him for more details, and he was still very vague.

I did e-mail today and present my case for the one character and why I felt the other relationship was not right to focus on, and my agent said that he didn't think the major character was as interesting and that the girl/girl relationship is more appealing in YA.

Right now I'm considering combining the two characters. No matter what, I'd have to change the girl to make the relationship with the MC be justifiable, so I might as well do a combo of the two, giving her the traits that made him perfect for the MC.

He did say I could have her end up with the other guy in the original love triangle, but he wanted to see the girl be the main rival in that case. <sighs>

The only specific thing he said about why he doesn't like the guy is that he didn't like how often his diabetes comes up--something I had already agreed to trimming--and that he didn't find him as interesting.

[stormie]

Sage--is your agent my ex agent?! Only kidding. After offering representation, my ex then strongly suggested I change about half the novel. What I did wrong was to not question him and just do what he said I should do. That got us off on the wrong foot, so to speak. After the major revisions, the novel just seemed worse and no one wanted it. It died a tragic death. Moral--state what you feel. Weigh both sides.

It seems you're trying to compromise, which is good. You're not blindly following everything he asks. Would he be okay with you just revising that male MC some? As you said, you're cutting back on the diabetes topic. This could be a first step in the revision process. Then see what he thinks.

My two cents. :)

[Gillhoughly]

Go with your instincts. It's okay to disagree with your agent.

It is also okay for a MC to have more than one love interest.

Janet Evanovich's inept bounty hunter Stephanie Plum has two hot guys chasing her. There are fan groups for each guy, each rooting for Plum to end up with their favorite. She's been wavering between both guys for 14 books and counting.

In my own case, one of my editors wanted a minor character in on the big climax. She didn't have a solid reason for him to be there; she just happened to like him.

Problem was, none of the other characters wanted him there. They let me know about it with four days of writer's block and awkward wordage. Her suggestion went against all my instincts. Eventually I discarded it and let her know it didn't work for me.

She blew it off with, "Meh, it was just a suggestion."

It sounded more important than that when she made it. She seemed to think it would make or break the book. Yikes.

That taught me to always go with my gut, and that not all editors or agents have a handle on what's best for one's story.

[badducky]

One thing about Gill's answer I want to point out:

First Gill attempted to implement the suggestion.

Disagreeing is fine, but listen to what they have to say and try it first. It's not about your relationship with them. It's about how they wouldn't be in the position they have without pretty good story instincts, and it's worth taking any feedback into consideration.

[jimpickens]

How'd that work out for you?:e2smack:
I haven't finished writing my first book but did successfully get an article published in Backwoodsman magazine in 2005 without an agent. And after looking into several self publishing companies I have decided that this route is not only the best way to go as far as royalties and price settings go but also the best route to go as far as keeping the rights to your work. Besides eliminating the middle man means more profit and one less pinhead to deal with.

[stormie]

Right (this is in response to badducky and Gil). Weigh both sides. Have an open discussion. Try to see if what the agent says, would work. I just went pell-mell into revisions without question, without giving my input. It's a give-and-take.

[ChaosTitan]

I haven't finished writing my first book but did successfully get an article published in Backwoodsman magazine in 2005 without an agent.

No one needs an agent to publish an article in a magazine. Agents sell books. They also sell novellas and shorts to bound anthologies. Not magazine articles.

And after looking into several self publishing companies I have decided that this route is not only the best way to go as far as royalties and price settings go

So these companies...will they also make sure your book is physically available in bookstores across the country? Will they send review copies out for you? Will they get other, well-known authors to blurb your book? I doubt it, because these aren't things that self-publishing companies do.

but also the best route to go as far as keeping the rights to your work.

You don't have to sell any rights via your agent that you don't want to sell. Many publishers buy World English Rights, so you're free to sell foreign language rights, TV/film development rights, audio book rights, etc... These are rights agents know how to sell for you.

Besides eliminating the middle man means more profit and one less pinhead to deal with.

*snickers* I have a funny feeling that everyone here who's signed with a "pinhead" will tell you it's worth it, just to see our names on the covers of books from places like Random House, Del Rey, Ace, Ballantine, etc...

Self-publishing is HARD. Self-published fiction is HARDER. Thousands of people self-publish every week. Most don't make money. Few are ever heard of outside of the author's home town.

You are free, of course, to ignore me. :)

[stormie]

jimpickens--that's a little off-topic. Sage has a good agent. The question is in how to deal with the situation. Chaos gives a good answer to your post.

[eqb]

Just to address the inaccuracies in this post:

I haven't finished writing my first book but did successfully get an article published in Backwoodsman magazine in 2005 without an agent.

Most agents don't handle articles or short fiction anyway. So this datapoint is meaningless.

[quot]And after looking into several self publishing companies I have decided that this route is not only the best way to go as far as royalties and price settings go [/quote]

While it's true you can set the price and therefore the profit for your book, you also won't have the distribution a commercial publisher offers. So to make a realistic comparison, you need to factor in how many sales you are likely to make with each route.

but also the best route to go as far as keeping the rights to your work. I think it was PA which started this particular misconception.

Commercial publishers do NOT take all rights to your work. What you do is LICENSE a specific set of rights to the publisher. (First North Americal English Rights, for example.) But you keep your copyright, and you license only those rights you agree to.

There are some exceptions (work for hire is one) but they are just that--exceptions.

Besides eliminating the middle man means more profit and one less pinhead to deal with.Well, if that's the way you feel, then yes, you are better off without an agent.

I do know that I make a higher profit with my agent than without her.

(oops. cross-posted with ChaosTitan. Apologies for that and for the topic drift.)

[CheshireCat]

So when your agent makes suggestions that you just think are wrong (or leave you wondering what he liked about the book in the first place), do you go back to him and try to negotiate? I don't want to come across as a difficult writer (in fact another agent before I accepted this one's offer commented on how open I was to her revisions). He could have asked me to cut any other character in the book except the MC and the two guys in the main triangle and I would've made it work. Other suggestions he made are going to be difficult, but I'm ready and willing to do them. I just can't imagine how this one serves the book.

As others have said, agents and editors are not always right. They tend to be good at pinpointing problems (what didn't work for them), but not so good at suggesting solutions. Listen to the problem, but try to come up with your own way of addressing it.

Sage, there have been many a time I've disagreed with my agent/editor about their suggestions. The way that I find it best to handle it is of course to first discuss it with the agent. You need to understand why he is making this suggestion, what his ultimate goal is with it. Often times the reason itself makes a lot of sense, it's just their suggested execution that's the problem. Then see if you can come up with a way to solve the problem your agent is having but in a totally different way. You're the writer. I'm not trying to get all artsy and precious or arrogant. But the fact is, editors and agents see what needs to be fixed, it's your job to figure out how to do the fixing. They can offer suggestions, but that isn't their expertise.

Don't be too precious about it. Like I said, ask why. Understand why. And then see what you can do with this knowledge. If after all that you are still at an impasse, then it's time for another serious conversation with your agent explaining why you simply can't do what he wants.

Or ... what Toothpaste said.

:)

[scope]

Jim,

If you consider agents to be pinheads, a statement which holds absolutely no water, then I guess you are left with two choices. Try to sell your book (when finished) to a traditional publisher or go the POD route, which you are leaning toward. However, know that very, very few writers make any money from self-publishing and that when self-publishing you need a thorough understanding of the entire publishing process, including production, editing, and more, and the ability to sell your work to stores and such, market your book, publicize it, and distribute it. You also need the time and a heavy amount of money to make this a business. And oh yes, you also must know how to run and operate a business.

[Gillhoughly]

but also the best route to go as far as keeping the rights to your work.

Okay, you do not sell your rights forever and ever unless you sign a really terrible contract.

When you "sell" a book to a publisher, you are LEASING the right to print your book in a certain geographic location (like North America and in English) for a set period of time or circumstances.

When the time period expires or (most likely) sales drop, you get your rights back. The publisher even sends you a snail mail letter about it.

I've got one on my desk. The sales for a title have dipped below a certain point and they're letting me know the book is going out of print. I have my rights back, and if I want, I can buy copies before the stock in the warehouse is sold to a remaindering dealer.

My agent knows all this. She will be hunting for either a new publisher for the title or persuading the first house to re-release the book in an omnibus volume with others. She's already sold that title 6 times over to different Euro-publishers.

Either way, ker-CHING! :D

[CloudyDay]

I have a question that goes alone with this. I signed with an agent last year. She loved my first book. (Hasn't sold it yet.) Hated the next two. The fourth novel I sent her she likes but wants sex in it. She said that the chemistry is good but she wants sizzle. I really didn't think the book needed sex. If I disagree then she won't rep that novel either. Should I change it or fire her?

[Toothpaste]

It depends how you feel about her suggestions. But to be honest, it sounds like she wants you to be someone you aren't. Like she wants a certain kind of author, and your first book fit that profile, but maybe that was a fluke. I dunno. I think it's time for a sit down conversation with her, see what's going on.

[ChaosTitan]

I have a question that goes alone with this. I signed with an agent last year. She loved my first book. (Hasn't sold it yet.) Hated the next two. The fourth novel I sent her she likes but wants sex in it. She said that the chemistry is good but she wants sizzle. I really didn't think the book needed sex. If I disagree then she won't rep that novel either. Should I change it or fire her?

That's a tough one, CloudyDay. On one hand, she loved something in your writing enough to take you on. On the other hand, you two seem to have trouble connecting on new projects.

Are you writing the books first, and then letting her read them? Or does she dislike your proposals? Have you had a conversation about potential projects?

Re: adding sex. You can add sizzle without adding explicit sex. Have you considered meeting your agent half-way with this by increasing the chemistry that's already present?

Firing your agent is a big decision, and it sounds like you're getting frustrated. I think you need to schedule a block of time and have a long conversation with your agent about the first book she hasn't sold (where it's been, where she sees it going now) and future projects. Get you both on the same page.

[CloudyDay]

Hi ChaosTitan-
The first novel she loved. Wanted no changes. Recently I asked her where it had been sent and she wouldn't tell me. Last year she said she was sending it out but won't tell me where it's been. She's mentioned some face to face meeting in NY soon where she'll pitch it again.

I do write the books first. She doesn't care for proposals. I have to send her the entire manuscript every time.

We've spoken on the phone a few times. She said that editors want sizzle right now. I didn't even want the focus of the novel to be on the relationship. I suppose she knows best. It's just annoying. She told me that next time I should write another quirky romance. I didn't think I'd written a romance the first time. Uhg.

[DeleyanLee]

Hi ChaosTitan-
The first novel she loved. Wanted no changes. Recently I asked her where it had been sent and she wouldn't tell me. Last year she said she was sending it out but won't tell me where it's been. She's mentioned some face to face meeting in NY soon where she'll pitch it again.

I do write the books first. She doesn't care for proposals. I have to send her the entire manuscript every time.

We've spoken on the phone a few times. She said that editors want sizzle right now. I didn't even want the focus of the novel to be on the relationship. I suppose she knows best. It's just annoying. She told me that next time I should write another quirky romance. I didn't think I'd written a romance the first time. Uhg.

Sounds to me like you've got a list of grievances and annoyances regarding your relationship with this agent. A conversation to discuss matters seems the best option.

Sometimes a new author gets an offer and grabs at it because they got it, not realizing that this isn't going to be a good fit. Rather like marrying the first guy who asks you on a date. Like any relationship, it's a give and take thing on both sides. She works for you, however she's the professional advisor. Give and take.

Have a conversation. If she refuses to have the talk or give you the updates you feel you deserve, then maybe it's time to think about ending the relationship.

Hope things work out for you.

[YAwriter72]

Cloudy Day - It seems counterproductive for your agent to encourage you to write an entire book before she decides if she likes it or not. I pass the first three chapters and an outline past my agent before I write anything because it makes no sense to invest all that work and time into something he doesn't like and can't sell.

Maybe its time to sit down and have a heart to heart with her about your expectations from her.

[ChaosTitan]

Hi ChaosTitan-
The first novel she loved. Wanted no changes. Recently I asked her where it had been sent and she wouldn't tell me. Last year she said she was sending it out but won't tell me where it's been. She's mentioned some face to face meeting in NY soon where she'll pitch it again.


Without knowing who your agent is, this sort of worries me. If you ask your agent for a list of editors who've read it, she should be able to provide it. If you ask your agent for the rejection letters from those editors, she should provide it, as well. You aren't asking for the world, just simple proof that she's been submitting, as she claims she has.

As for saying editors want sizzle...I wonder which editors she's pursuing. Is she marketing your first book as romance? Do you write romance? It does sound as though she's trying to sell your work a certain way, ie sexy romance, when that's not what you want to write.

You definitely need that conversation.

[ChaosTitan]

CloudyDay - It seems counterproductive for your agent to encourage you to write an entire book before she decides if she likes it or not. I pass the first three chapters and an outline past my agent before I write anything because it makes no sense to invest all that work and time into something he doesn't like and can't sell.

Maybe its time to sit down and have a heart to heart with her about your expectations from her.

;)

[YAwriter72]

;)


HAH! I caught it but you got me first!! LOL

[ChaosTitan]

HAH! I caught it but you got me first!! LOL

:D That's only cuz I'm avoiding work.

[YAwriter72]

:D That's only cuz I'm avoiding work.


Hey me too! No wonder we're so speedy! LOL

[CloudyDay]

Without knowing who your agent is, this sort of worries me. If you ask your agent for a list of editors who've read it, she should be able to provide it. If you ask your agent for the rejection letters from those editors, she should provide it, as well. You aren't asking for the world, just simple proof that she's been submitting, as she claims she has.

As for saying editors want sizzle...I wonder which editors she's pursuing. Is she marketing your first book as romance? Do you write romance? It does sound as though she's trying to sell your work a certain way, ie sexy romance, when that's not what you want to write.

You definitely need that conversation.

I wish I knew who she had submitted it to. Most of my work has a romantic interest in it but it's a subplot. I was surprised when she mentioned writing 'another quirky romance'. I'm still learning. I might have signed with the wrong agent. She does have legit sales though. Thanks everyone.

[KikiteNeko]

I wish I knew who she had submitted it to. Most of my work has a romantic interest in it but it's a subplot. I was surprised when she mentioned writing 'another quirky romance'. I'm still learning. I might have signed with the wrong agent. She does have legit sales though. Thanks everyone.

I have literally never heard of an agent refusing to tell her client where she sent the MS. That makes no sense to me. And if you're getting editor rejections, you should be able to know what they are so you know where to possibly improve. I would talk to her, like others have said. Best of luck.

[DeleyanLee]

I have literally never heard of an agent refusing to tell her client where she sent the MS. That makes no sense to me.

Actually, I have. Normally, though, it's because the agent hasn't done the work and is trying to cover their butts with the client.

[scope]

Ditto, ditto, ditto to all that ChaosTitan said in her post.

Lots of things seem to be very wrong. You must, and I emphasize must, have a serious face to face with your agent and find out exactly what's going.

[mysterygrl]

Hi ChaosTitan-
The first novel she loved. Wanted no changes. Recently I asked her where it had been sent and she wouldn't tell me. Last year she said she was sending it out but won't tell me where it's been. She's mentioned some face to face meeting in NY soon where she'll pitch it again.

You have a right to know this information. The day I signed with my former agent, she sent me a list of houses/imprints she was submitting to. And at my request, she always forwarded the editor responses. The fact that your agent refuses to provide this information doesn't sound good.

As for you and your agent not connecting on your current project, one of my writing friends ran into this issue. After her agent sold her first mystery, he started pushing her to write romance/women's fiction. My friend decided they weren't on the same page, so to speak, and they parted on friendly terms.

Whatever happens, I wish you the best.

[Irysangel]

I hate to say it, but it sounds like you need to be a little more confrontational on the phone. Not in a bad way, but strong enough to get answers.

For example - your agent mentioned that she wanted another 'quirky little romance'. First thing to ask her - is she marketing your book as a romance? If so, why? A lot of the time people think they are not writing a romance, but it IS something that the romance market will read, so it naturally heads in that direction.

(FWIW, if she is marketing it as a romance, this is why she wants more sex in it. The sexier stuff really sells right now.)

Second - you don't know who your book went out to, just that it is going back out again. Okay. I had this problem with one of my prior agents. I would ask who the book went out to and got no answer unless I called and said "Who is the book out to right now?" If they can't recall and will send you the list once you are done with the phone call (this line was used on me repeatedly), then you continue to follow up until you get your list.

Writing the full ms before subbing anything does not strike me as weird. If you have no sales under your belt, some agents feel you can get more money with a full ms than just a proposal. But not checking in with your agent before you write the full thing? Not wise.

You need to have a conversation with your agent. On the phone. State the following:

1) I want to know who my book is out to right now/who has rejected it.
2) How are you marketing my book to editors?
3) I am writing X Y Z right now. Do you think this is something saleable?

I really do feel like a lot of this can be cleared up with a phone call (because I was in your same place). And if you don't get your answers on the phone, you need to decide if you are okay with that, or if it's time to look elsewhere. Some clients want to hear nothing from the agent except "It sold!" and some want to know every detail. It is up to you to tell your agent your expectations, and tbh, it's also up to you to keep in touch and keep contact. I'm not saying call your agent every day at 4, but you need to stay on the radar.

[jimpickens]

From what I've read on this thread about some of the posters experiences with agents not sending in manuscripts, wanting you to remove characters that you feel are important to the story, and wanting you to compromise the integrity of your story/your vision and turn it into something completely different so I believe that no agent is the best route for me. As for all the hate for self publishers I am curious as to if any of you guys have ever dealt with an SP publisher and what turned you against them.

[Little Bird]

From what I've read on this thread about some of the posters experiences with agents not sending in manuscripts, wanting you to remove characters that you feel are important to the story, and wanting you to compromise the integrity of your story/your vision and turn it into something completely different so I believe that no agent is the best route for me. As for all the hate for self publishers I am curious as to if any of you guys have ever dealt with an SP publisher and what turned you against them.

In my case, Jim, it's not about hate; it's about my goals for my writing career.

My goal is to earn myself a spot, preferably semi-permanent, on the book store and library shelves. I want people to be able to go into a book store or library and find something written by me.

Of course I have goals for the content of my writing, as far as it being quality, enjoyable, edifying, etc., but just as far as how a particular method of publication fits in with my goals, see the above.

Self-publishing is not going to get me where I want to be. It might be gratifying to see my work bound with a pretty cover on it, looking like an actual book, but that short-term gratification is not going to help me reach my long-term goals. So I choose a longer route, hoping that with hard work I can build the type of career I've always wanted.

As far as changing stories, I'm okay with that, as long as it's not immoral or illegal, and the changes seem like a good idea as far as making the story more enjoyable and salable.

Why? Because I already wrote it the way I liked it. I have it on file. If I want to read it or share it with a friend, I can do that. Now I'm trying to build that career I was talking about.

[eqb]

As for all the hate for self publishers I am curious as to if any of you guys have ever dealt with an SP publisher and what turned you against them.

I don't hate self publishing companies. I think self publishing is perfect for certain types of books. Nonfiction with a built-in audience, local interest books, poetry, etc.

But for novels? No. Because I want my book to reach as many readers as possible, and I can't do that with self-publishing because I can't get the distribution that a commercial publisher can offer me.

As for agents... Agents are all different. The key is to find the one that you feel comfortable working with.

[KikiteNeko]

From what I've read on this thread about some of the posters experiences with agents not sending in manuscripts, wanting you to remove characters that you feel are important to the story, and wanting you to compromise the integrity of your story/your vision and turn it into something completely different so I believe that no agent is the best route for me. As for all the hate for self publishers I am curious as to if any of you guys have ever dealt with an SP publisher and what turned you against them.


I think most of the people here are saying an agent like the one you described is sub-par and not someone an author should be dealing with. My experience with an agent has been wonderful. I've never been told to make a change that compromised the integrity of the story, and if I don't like a change that's suggested to me by an editor then my agent says okay and we look for more editors. She's gotten me read by Penguin, Random, Harper, and a bunch of imprints who all gave me detailed feedback and mostly offers to read again after revisions. I've never once had to compromise the integrity of my writing. I'm more than happy to give my agent 15% of my advance for all the championing she does on my behalf--without even being paid before a sale.

I personally will never deal with a SP because I will not pay money to have my book printed just so I can go out and sell it myself. But it sounds like you have your mind made up, which, from what you've said so far, makes me feel sorry for you because you seem to have no concept of what you're missing out on. But to each his own. Best of luck.

[selkn.asrai]

Sorry, Jim, but if your work is fiction, and you want that fiction read, a vanity press won't get you what you want or need. I work in a BN and we don't carry self-published books; a small amount of the books we order in per a customer's request are POD.

Even the rare success stories (like The Shack) need to have an actual publisher supporting it and reprinting it under their logo before a store will stock it in warehouses and on shelves. And the popularity of a self-published title has to be immense before Random House or Macmillan (just examples) will take it on, anyway.

You seem pretty adamant that an agent is a terrible idea for you, and if that's your prerogative, fine. But know that a vanity press will be inadequate in most scenarios. (AND it will cost you money. A good amount of money.) They're probably not the Holy Grail of Great Escapes you seek.

[CloudyDay]

Hi Jim,

I have to say that even if I fire my agent, I will try to find another one. This business is too rough without one. A good agent should open doors for you. I'm afraid that self publishing will only get doors slammed in your face. Sorry. Best of luck to you in whatever you decide. I would love to hear that your book is so awesome the big league publishers fought to sign you.

[ChaosTitan]

From what I've read on this thread about some of the posters experiences with agents not sending in manuscripts, wanting you to remove characters that you feel are important to the story, and wanting you to compromise the integrity of your story/your vision and turn it into something completely different so I believe that no agent is the best route for me.

I work part-time in retail, and we had a staff meeting recently. A statistic was shared with us that really stuck with me: a customer who has a good shopping experience will tell four people; a customer who has a bad shopping experience will tell eleven people.

The bad experiences with agents and editors are more likely to stick in someone's mind and be told and re-told to others. If all you're getting from this thread is that agents are bad, then I suggest you read it again. No one is saying that.

The vast majority of AW members who are agented are perfectly happy with our agents and our experiences with them. As others have said, it's your prerogative to dismiss agents and go the self-publishing route. We aren't here to change your mind. We just don't want you going into it with your eyes closed to the reality of its difficulties.

[BooksAndChocolate]

I went through a similar experience with my agent and at first I didn't want to listen to his advice, that's a knee jerk reaction, I believe.

However, after thinking about it and stepping away from it and looking at his sugggestions, I realized he was right and the book is actually a lot tighter and reads better.

What we as writers have to understand is that editors and agents are human, and yes, they make mistakes and yes, their opinions may differ greatly with ours, but they also offer expertise in their field. If you have a reputable agent, that has a good stable of authors, chances are, he is not giving you bad advice.

Having said that, my agent ALWAYS ends his suggestions with "this is your book, what do you think? Are you comfortable with these changes?"

Remember, they work for you, not the other way around, and also remember, he/she knows the marketing, business and knows what editors are looking for and who is looking for what. Again, I'm not saying they are perfect, there are bad agents, bad editors and bad writers.

Have a discussion and tell your agent what you are comfortable with. In the end it is YOUR book, YOUR writing career. No where in your contract should it state that you HAVE TO follow his editorial advice. It is YOUR choice. Collaboration is important in this relationship and so is communication.

ChaosTitan, well said! Unfortunately, people will jump on the negative things they've heard. Let us not forget, there are also really bad writers out there, that give writers a bad name, same goes for agents, editors, the milkman, the post office, etc. etc. LOL

Cheers

[Sage]

I went through a similar experience with my agent and at first I didn't want to listen to his advice, that's a knee jerk reaction, I believe.

However, after thinking about it and stepping away from it and looking at his sugggestions, I realized he was right and the book is actually a lot tighter and reads better.
I don't think this is as much the case with my situation, though. I understand the suggestions that will make the book tighter, the ones that will clarify things, and the ones that will result in a better book, even if it means cutting (several) scenes I love.

Before I signed on with this agent, I had an hour long conversation with another agent who, unfortunately, did not offer representation without seeing revisions first. If she had come to me first, I would have made them in a heartbeat. Her suggestions were not easy ones, they weren't all ones that kept me from cutting some of my favorite scenes, but they all made sense to me. I got the sense from her that she liked my book but understood what would make it better. During the conversation, I was so agreeable that she actually commented about my openness to revision. Furthermore, I felt she listened when I said why I did one of the things she suggested changing, and then gave me a GOOD reason why it didn't work, and I completely took it to heart because it made sense.

For this particular revision, though I don't feel it serves the book. It limits my character's growth. One of the things my agent says doesn't work, the other agent complimented me on that piece of brilliance. This character he says is uninteresting, most of my betas were rooting for.

Taking out this character--one of the three main characters--completely doesn't tighten my novel, it guts it.

I had almost resigned myself to combining the two characters and just going with it. And I was writing an e-mail to my parents, who are currently on a trip and had asked to read the novel during it, and told them that it was up to them if they want to read that version considering the changes I had to make. And I said, "I think maybe three scenes will be left in tact by the end of this revision." I was thinking about how to explain to them why I was going to be changing so much of the novel, pretty much rewriting from scratch half of it, possibly changing the plot and themes, and how I felt like I was at square one considering this "great concept" and how to make it into a book. I believe in revising and making a better book. I don't believe in writing an entire new one with someone else's vision for it.

Remember, they work for you, not the other way around, and also remember, he/she knows the marketing, business and knows what editors are looking for and who is looking for what. Again, I'm not saying they are perfect, there are bad agents, bad editors and bad writers.

Have a discussion and tell your agent what you are comfortable with. In the end it is YOUR book, YOUR writing career. No where in your contract should it state that you HAVE TO follow his editorial advice. It is YOUR choice. Collaboration is important in this relationship and so is communication.
I feel like I really got shot down during my last e-mail. I'm not very good at expressing myself verbally, (I hope, at least, that I am better on the page ;)) so I'm not sure I'd be assertive enough over the phone, and when I do try to be assertive verbally, I think it comes across as defensive. I don't want to come across as defensive this early in our agent-author relationship. But if I'm sending a long detailed e-mail about why I feel the character is worth keeping, and he's sending me a short paragraph that's simply "We didn't find him interesting. Girl-girl relationships are appealing in YA right now, so make that the relationship instead," is there any point in trying to discuss it with him? And if I just make the changes but keep the character or meld the two characters together, doesn't that sort of look to him like I'm openly defying that suggestion that he made pretty darn clear he was expecting to be done? Or can I really use that defense, that it's my book and I really don't have to follow his suggestions, to just integrate the suggestions that I feel are going to make a stronger book and ignore the ones that I feel aren't?

[BooksAndChocolate]

For this particular revision, though I don't feel it serves the book. It limits my character's growth. One of the things my agent says doesn't work, the other agent complimented me on that piece of brilliance. This character he says is uninteresting, most of my betas were rooting for.

This is a prime example of how this craft is so subject. You can give the book to 10 different agents, you will get 10 different opinions. You sound like you feel strongly about the revision, in that you don't feel it will serve the book.

You need to express this to your agent and give him the reason why.

Taking out this character--one of the three main characters--completely doesn't tighten my novel, it guts it.

Again, this is something you need to communicate. Remember, he is one opinion. Unless of course, he has submitted the book to a publishing house and the editor has asked for him to relay this information to you, then you have two major players asking you to revise, but it's ALWAYS your decision.

I had almost resigned myself to combining the two characters and just going with it. And I was writing an e-mail to my parents, who are currently on a trip and had asked to read the novel during it, and told them that it was up to them if they want to read that version considering the changes I had to make. And I said, "I think maybe three scenes will be left in tact by the end of this revision." I was thinking about how to explain to them why I was going to be changing so much of the novel, pretty much rewriting from scratch half of it, possibly changing the plot and themes, and how I felt like I was at square one considering this "great concept" and how to make it into a book. I believe in revising and making a better book. I don't believe in writing an entire new one with someone else's vision for it.

I agree with you. Rewriting it as per his plot and characterization sounds odd to me for an agent to ask you to do that, unless of course, like I said, he has received an offer for the book, depended upon the revisions?

You don't have to give the name of your agent, however, is this a boutique agency? They tend to be more hands on, and there is nothing wrong with that, but your agent seems to be playing editor/agent roles combined.

The author/agent relationship is important in that your agent is helping you manage your writing career. If at the onset you are intimidated by him, or you feel you have a hard time communicating, or feel that it is a "do as I say, and that's all there is to it," relationship, this is something you and you alone will have to analyze and conclude if this is the right agent for you.

I feel like I really got shot down during my last e-mail.

Hmmm, emails can be deceiving as you don't see facial expressions etc, but your agent shooting you down is a concern. He is there to guide you, yes, and like I said, the chemistry between the two of you is important.
I don't want to come across as defensive this early in our agent-author relationship.

I understand how you feel, and when it's your first experience with an agent it can be daunting. However, keep in mind, he's not there to judge YOU as a person, he is there to sell your book to a publisher. Don't worry, agents are used to writers and their ways and their hesitancy about major revisions.
But if I'm sending a long detailed e-mail about why I feel the character is worth keeping, and he's sending me a short paragraph that's simply "We didn't find him interesting. Girl-girl relationships are appealing in YA right now, so make that the relationship instead," is there any point in trying to discuss it with him?

You can ask him outright.

If I do not make the suggested revisions, are you telling me that you won't be able to find a publisher? Have you gotten a bite to the story, but were told that I need to change it to girl-girl relationships? There may be a reason behind all this that he's not communicating to you.

In summary, I really think you need to communicate with him by talking to him, have your questions already outlined, keep them short and talk to him about his expectations and you tell him what your expectations as a writer are.

Good luck.

[Nadia]

Second - you don't know who your book went out to, just that it is going back out again. Okay. I had this problem with one of my prior agents. I would ask who the book went out to and got no answer unless I called and said "Who is the book out to right now?" If they can't recall and will send you the list once you are done with the phone call (this line was used on me repeatedly), then you continue to follow up until you get your list.

Ditto what Jill said. Your agent should be on top of stuff AND tell you where your projects went to should you ever ask. And it shouldn't take her more than 24-48 hours to do so via email, unless she's out of town or her computer died a horrible death or something.

[CloudyDay]

Nadia,

I'm starting to think I have signed with the wrong agent. I'm going to take another look at the book she wants more sizzle in but I'm considering ending our relationship. I'm going to give her a couple of more months since she's already planned meetings and all.

I should've known better. The first time I sent in my contract, she lost it. The second manuscript I sent her, she lost it. I also have a feeling that she doesn't read my work until I email to verify that she's received it. I'll email her on Wednesday and she'll respond about five days later with comments about the work. (I usually give her 2 months before I email to see if she's received the work.) I don't like to be pushy but with her tendacy to lose things, I like to check.

She's in the big leaques. She's part of a large agency. She has sales to the big boys. I don't think I'm important enough for her to keep up with. Next time I'm going to try for a smaller agency.

[YAwriter72]

Nadia,

She's in the big leaques. She's part of a large agency. She has sales to the big boys. I don't think I'm important enough for her to keep up with. Next time I'm going to try for a smaller agency.


My agent is one of the big dogs with a huge client list, and I have NEVER had to wait for a reply. Even if its just a question about something. Small doesn't necessarily mean better communication, it just sounds like either this agent has WAY too many clients to give everyone what they need or she is extremely disorganized. And in this business, disorganized is not good! You have to be on your A game all the time!

You might be right that looking for a new agent might be best. You know what you need and aren't getting it. Ultimately agents work for authors. You have a right to certain expectations.

[Prawn]

@ Cloudy:
I am on my second agent. It was scary to make the change, but I am very happy that I did. If you had another agent interested in your first ms, s/he might still be interested in representing you. If not, someone else will.

@ Sage:
If you can put your finger on the problem that the agent finds with the book, you can propose a different solution that you like better. It seems like the simplest thing in this situation would be combining the two characters somehow. If you don't think your MC should end up with a jerk, soften the jerk up a bit, give him/her some of the qualities of the character your agent wants cut. This sounds like a simple compromise. In my mind, it would be better to spend a month revising the novel and showing your agent the cuts don't work than it would be to spend a month or two (or longer) looking for a new agent. If the cuts don't work, the agent will trust you more next time. If the cuts work, you will trust your agent more next time.

[ChristineR]

Well, I'm sort of guessing here, but it sounds like an editor told your agent "girl-girl books are really selling well now. If you find me a well-written YA book with a girl-girl romance, I'll likely buy it."

So if that's the case, it may be that your agent thinks his chances of selling it without the girl-girl romance are slim, possibly so slim that he wouldn't have signed you otherwise. So I really don't know how to advise you. If you can combine the characters, or make the other character female, maybe that will work. Or maybe you can expand the girl's role at the expense of the boy, but still keep the boy.

If it were me, first I'd try and get him to say explicitly that he thinks the book must have a strong girl-girl subplot. Then you can consider every possible way you can rewrite this book and keep the girl-girl element. And if you really can't do it, tell him so, and if drops you, at least he drops you for a good reason and you can part amicably.

[Julie Worth]

Sage--This sounds like the sort of thing an agent asks for before they sign a writer, not afterward. Most unusual and discouraging. So I'd call him if I were you, but only after I'd digested his suggestions for a week or so.

[stormie]

She's in the big leaques. She's part of a large agency. She has sales to the big boys. I don't think I'm important enough for her to keep up with. Next time I'm going to try for a smaller agency.
From experience, I've found it doesn't matter if they're with a large or small agency. What does matter is (a) good communication between you and the agent, (b) the agent is actively selling books to large publishing houses, or if new to agenting, has a solid background in the publishing business (worked for publishing houses or interned with a lit agency), (c) you and the agent are on the same page.

[wandergirl]

Sage, I've been following this thread, and I really feel for you. And... I don't know. I think this might be a dealbreaker. Did you withdraw from that other agent on good terms? Would she still be willing to work with you re: her suggested revisions?

[Sage]

Sage, I've been following this thread, and I really feel for you. And... I don't know. I think this might be a dealbreaker. Did you withdraw from that other agent on good terms? Would she still be willing to work with you re: her suggested revisions?
Oh, yeah, she was very congratulatory, and when I said I was accepting the other offer, I let her know it was a very difficult decision and how much I appreciated all her suggestions.

[wandergirl]

Oh, yeah, she was very congratulatory, and when I said I was accepting the other offer, I let her know it was a very difficult decision and how much I appreciated all her suggestions.

Would it be out of line to e-mail her about what's going on? I know querying other agents before you've severed ties with your own agent is frowned upon, but maybe it wouldn't hurt to put your feelers out. This is the part that got to me: "I believe in revising and making a better book. I don't believe in writing an entire new one with someone else's vision for it."

Sounds like you're being completely reasonable. If his changes were so massive, he definitely should have informed you before signing you. "Bait & switch" is probably too strong a term, but it's close. Obviously the idea of venturing back into QLH is a frustrating one, but you've already got that other agent interested ... When I imagine putting my own book in that context, I would totally flip out. Might as well write a new book.

[Karen Duvall]

Hi, Sage, you awesome beta reader you. :)

I just got my 3-page revision letter from my agent yesterday, and most of her suggestions are relatively minor, though there's one I'm not too happy with. I'm tempted to disagree. Her notes are still fresh so I'll need to think about it, but at least it's not something that will change the book much. It's a small subplot that isn't essential to the overall plot, but one that I really like. So my situation isn't the same, though I have no problem disagreeing with my agent. This is the second project we've worked on together.

I have to say that after reading through this whole thread from the start (including the digressive missives in the middle :Shrug:), I'm leaning toward ChristineR's interpretation of your agent's possible agenda. If he heard that a couple of editors are looking for YA girl/girl love stories, he could be thinking that with a bit of repurposing, your ms fits the bill. You'll have to ask him. And if that's the case, you need to decide if you're willing to make the sacrifice.

One way to think about it is that this is just one book. You'll write others. If this one puts you on the map, subsequent stories have a better chance of making it to the printed page as well. And perhaps you'll have more control over future projects. But that's a decision only you can make.

The other book my agent is subbing has come close to being acquired a couple of times. Both times, the editors had over-the-top suggestions on revisions. One actually loved the book so much she didn't want to make the changes required for it to fit the company's imprint. She didn't think it would be in the best interest of the book. Gotta love an editor with integrity. :)

I think all writers need to feel comfortable with the fact that their books are products and will be treated as such by the industry. We love our books like our own children, but that's an emotion rarely shared by those who would put our kids on bookstore shelves.

I guess I'm no help with your dilemma, Sage. Sorry! But I echo those who say talk it out with your agent. Ask him point blank and then be ready with a response. You may have a tough choice to make. Good luck!

[BooksAndChocolate]

[quote=wandergirl;3552360]Would it be out of line to e-mail her about what's going on? I know querying other agents before you've severed ties with your own agent is frowned upon, but maybe it wouldn't hurt to put your feelers out.

I respectfully disagree with this. Publishing is a small world and agents and editors meet at conferences and form friendships, the same as writers. You don't know who knows who in this business, and it is not good practice to put out a feeler to another agent, while contracted with an agent.

I really believe, Sage, that you need to ask your agent some direct questions and discuss this situation with him/her.

As I mentioned earlier, and a few others have as well, your agent may have received a small bite from a publisher, as in....if the book were revised this way, we may be interested.

You need to ask your agent if there is interest in your book from a publisher.

Also, I think talking to your agent and discussing your concerns over the major revisions would clear the air.

Only you can decide if this partnership is a good fit for you. Hopefully, after the sale, you will have another sale, and establishing your relationship and what will work for you and your writing career is important.

Good luck, and I hope you have a resolution and a book contract soon! We all feel your angst.

[Irysangel]

Nadia,

I'm starting to think I have signed with the wrong agent. I'm going to take another look at the book she wants more sizzle in but I'm considering ending our relationship. I'm going to give her a couple of more months since she's already planned meetings and all.

I should've known better. The first time I sent in my contract, she lost it. The second manuscript I sent her, she lost it. I also have a feeling that she doesn't read my work until I email to verify that she's received it. I'll email her on Wednesday and she'll respond about five days later with comments about the work. (I usually give her 2 months before I email to see if she's received the work.) I don't like to be pushy but with her tendacy to lose things, I like to check.

She's in the big leaques. She's part of a large agency. She has sales to the big boys. I don't think I'm important enough for her to keep up with. Next time I'm going to try for a smaller agency.

I'm not Nadia, but here's my input.

An agent responding within a week is not craziness. Some do have really full client lists and can't get to email every day. If your agent emails you the same day, awesome. But within a week is not unacceptable, IMO.

But you also mentioned that you wait 2 months to see if she has anything? Why? If she is losing stuff, you need to call her by the end of the week and say "Just confirming that you got what I sent you." That should not be a problem. What if you wait 2 months and she says "Oops, didn't get it. Send it again." You've just cost yourself -- and her -- 2 months, because now she's not going to read it for another two.

As for the size of the agency...size does not matter. It really, really does not. My first agent ran his own boutique agency. My second agent was an agent with one of the largest agencies in NY. My third agent is at a smaller agency. They all work differently, and you can get ignored just as much at a small agency as you can at a large one, trust me on that.

However, you need to talk with your agent before deciding to arbitrarily fire him/her. If it's because you don't want to write sex into your book, okay...that's a conversation that both of you need to have before it goes out on submission REGARDLESS of who your agent is. If your agent is subbing you to romance lines, you can darn sure bet that any interested editor is going to ask for sex unless your agent says it's not on the table.

But you need to talk with your agent. If you see your book as a cozy mystery and she's subbing it as a genre you absolutely refuse to support, you guys seriously need to talk.

[Irysangel]

Would it be out of line to e-mail her about what's going on? I know querying other agents before you've severed ties with your own agent is frowned upon, but maybe it wouldn't hurt to put your feelers out. This is the part that got to me: "I believe in revising and making a better book. I don't believe in writing an entire new one with someone else's vision for it."


This is a *really* bad idea. It will make you look like a flake AND dishonest.

If you're going to fire your agent over creative differences, that's one thing. If you're going to start approaching other agents while still signed with him? That's something else entirely, and most agents hate it (and a good deal of them know each other and gossip spreads fast).

[scope]

You have gotten great advice from lots of AW'ers. But in spite of all we say, there's no escaping the fact that you absolutely, positively must have a long talk with your agent before making any decision. As I understand, you have many issues to discuss with him or her, not the least of which is exactly why the drastic revisions are being asked for. We are all assuming there is only side to this dilemma, but you may discover that there is a whole lot more involved when you have a face to face, no holds barred.

[wandergirl]

This is a *really* bad idea. It will make you look like a flake AND dishonest.

Yikes. Like I said, I'm definitely aware doing so is against protocol, and naturally, it would be better to cut loose her present agent before contacting the other. But I really didn't mean to recommend super-devious agent two-timing or anything like that -- just a feeler e-mail. But point taken.

ETA: Definitely agree with the long blunt talk.

[Sage]

Thanks, everyone. I'm going to e-mail him and see if I can schedule a talk about the revisions and the novel and our communication early next week.

[YAwriter72]

Good luck Sage.

[Nadia]

Good luck, Sage!

[Sage]

Okay, I just sent the e-mail, and I'm kinda terrified of the answer. I'm not big on confrontation, and even though this is more of a "let's find a compromise" e-mail, I did subtlely question whether he was enthusiastic enough about the novel.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[ChaosTitan]

Fingers crossed for you!

[Karen Duvall]

Good luck, Sage! I have a scheduled phone call with my own agent tomorrow to discuss something similar. I know how you feel. :) Stay strong!

[Sage]

Okay, so we're talking next Tuesday on the phone.

He definitely indicated that he read my long-ass e-mail, but agrees that we're stuck at him not liking a character I love (to be fair, I gave many many plot and character reasons beyond just my personal love for the character why he should be saved). I don't know how the convo will go, but at least he's showing that he's listening and willing to discuss the situation.

[Eric San Juan]

Sounds like a bad situation that could be far worse but isn't thanks to both parties involved being open to discussion.

No matter the resolution, I hope it works out for you.

[Nadia]

Thanks for the update, Sage. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you! :)

[BooksAndChocolate]

Okay, so we're talking next Tuesday on the phone.

He definitely indicated that he read my long-ass e-mail, but agrees that we're stuck at him not liking a character I love (to be fair, I gave many many plot and character reasons beyond just my personal love for the character why he should be saved). I don't know how the convo will go, but at least he's showing that he's listening and willing to discuss the situation.

To ease your anxiety, be ready with some questions outlined, and your ideas in point form. I think it's a good sign that he's going to discuss this with you.

I know you already know this, but remember, this is a business, it's not personal. If he insists that he doesn't like a certain plot point or a character, he has your best interest in terms of a sale in mind and it has nothing to do with you as a writer or person.

You've already sold him on your writing, now it's a matter of creative indifference and discussing it and approaching it like a business.

Good luck, will keep you in my good thoughts.

[Karen Duvall]

Sage, I just wanted you to know I talked to my agent today about the one revision note I didn't agree with and she was totally okay with it. So don't worry! I bet that after your discussion with your agent, you'll come to a mutual agreement you'll both be happy with. Good luck!

[scope]

Sage,

To follow up Karen's point, on the "final draft" of my last book my agent originally suggested about 7 points for revision. We spoke. I agreed to 3 changes because I thought she was right and they made sense. I disagreed with the other 4 -- explained why -- and she understood. No problem. She sold the book to a publisher 6 weeks later. I guess the moral is that to some degree we may have to go to bat for what we truly believe is absolutely right. Nothing crazy with a scattered mind, but after digesting the entire matter and taking everything into account. Sometimes we are right and some times we aren't -- as far as getting our story published. There's always later.

Good luck.

[YAwriter72]

Good luck with your talk today Sage, I hope everything gets worked out and you end up happy and agent ends up happy!

[Sage]

All right, I had the phone call with my agent! And I honestly think it couldn't have gone better. We went over the character he wants to cut (he says I don't have to cut him, but since he wants me to demote him to minor characters-ville, it's basically the same thing as far as the rewrites go), and still both agreed that he (and his associate) found him uninteresting and I (and my betas and at least one other agent) love him.

Basically, he brought up three options:
1) Major rewrite according to his revisions. He preferred this.
2) Keep the tension strong, keep the one character, but without the diabetes and change lots of things about him (I was a little unclear on this one due to the next point)
3) Take it to another agent and see if they'd be excited about it "as is." (although I plan to revise) This was because he didn't think he could sell it with the character.

He also said that if I chose number 3, he was not just going to wash his hands of me. That if I changed my mind and came back in a few months and wanted to revise, he would represent me again because he really is excited about the concept. This takes a LOT of pressure off me.

[Nadia]

Hi Sage,

I'm glad it went well. :) I think phone calls always help. It's just great to hear the vocal cues and really understand where the other person's coming from.

Good luck with revision!

[YAwriter72]

Sounds like it went well and good luck with your decision, whatever you decide!

[BooksAndChocolate]

Good for you, Sage!

Sounds like it went well and it shows his commitment to your career and writing that he wants to keep the door open, should you choose to shop your book to other agencies. At least you're both up front about this if you go this route.

Whatever you choose, good luck!

[stormie]

Wow, Sage, that's great of that agent! And it's excellent you and he are trying to work it out.

[CloudyDay]

Great news Sage. It's nice to know he'll work with you and believes so strongly in your work.

[scope]

Basically, he brought up three options:
1) Major rewrite according to his revisions. He preferred this.
2) Keep the tension strong, keep the one character, but without the diabetes and change lots of things about him (I was a little unclear on this one due to the next point)
3) Take it to another agent and see if they'd be excited about it "as is." (although I plan to revise) This was because he didn't think he could sell it with the character.

He also said that if I chose number 3, he was not just going to wash his hands of me. That if I changed my mind and came back in a few months and wanted to revise, he would represent me again because he really is excited about the concept. This takes a LOT of pressure off me.

Sage,

Before doing anything I suggest you take a deep breath and a good, long look at your contract with your agency.

He says you can take it to another agent, but what does your contract say? If another agent takes you on and sells your work to a publisher with or without any revisions, is the first agency entitled to their 15%?

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but I think you have to get everything said by your agent in writing. If you do look for another agent - find one - sign with one - what happens to your current contract, especially if the your current agent is no longer with the company --- or is --- but there's nothing in writing to back up what he told you on the phone?

[Sage]

I would actually cancel the contract with him, which he said I could do via e-mail, then he would send back another e-mail agreeing to it.

The contract just says that we can terminate it with thirty day's notice in writing. There are no conditions included.