"You never told me that...and I'm your damn creator!"

[scarletpeaches]

This thread inspired by, yes, a conversation with thethinker42.

Without going into too much detail, the robot ninja from the future with pens for fingers (tt42 to you and me) told me she didn't know her two MCs' jobs until she came to write the scene where they discussed what they both did for a living.

Now to other folks that might seem a bit weird - and we are talking about tt42 here so it probably is - but it struck me that's happened a few times with me, too. (And I'm also weird so, meh).

I didn't know until writing the relevant chapter that my male MC from my previous WIP had been married before, or that he knew how to do certain illegal things...

And with WIP#2 - designed to occupy me for the next month so I don't start editing until I've left WIP#1 for a sufficient length of time - I was quite a few pages into it before one of the male MCs decided he was bisexual, a fact which influences the rest of the story and the group dynamic very strongly, and for the better I think. It certainly goes a long way to explaining why he does what he does...and why he does who he does.

Now I know we often talk about characters coming to life and it can seem a bit wanky. Our characters aren't real, no, but...they should seem as if they could be in my opinion and when they appear to tell us things we didn't previously know, clearly, these 'facts' are coming from our own minds; we'll call it the subconscious...or collective unconscious.

So have your characters ever whispered in your ear things like, "Oh, I forgot to tell you something..." or "Did you know I once...?"

And it's amazing how this drip-fed information works its way into the story to such an extent you reach the end, thinking, "Wow. It wouldn't have worked so well any other way. That all ties in." It's as if certain characters arrive at the story's jumping-off point complete in themselves, but they neglect to make certain confessions until the relevant part of the story.

tt42 often refers to her characters having 'magic feathers' - qualities that make them fly - and that would be a similar subject I think. The tiniest of details that make everything else fall into place and explain their actions and motivations, or add that extra spark to make characters come to life.

So...over to you. Discuss. :D

[thethinker42]

Story of my life!!

I had a character startle me with a PhD in Biochemistry today. Didn't see that one coming. Another character had a history as a drug abuser, one had an ex-wife who did more heinous things to him than I'd realized, and another had a, shall we say, "history" with one of the other main characters. WHO KNEW?

Then once in a while they'll come up with witty little lines that make me go "OH! I wish I'd thought of that!" Just today, one did that very thing, but I won't repeat it here, because it's dirty. (both beta readers loved it though)

The "magic feathers" are similar...it's the one thing (usually one thing, anyway) that suddenly gives the character his/her mojo and makes him, as you said, fly. This has come in the form of accents and even...yes...piercings.

I LOVE those moments. When you have that "EUREKA!" moment and the character gets what he needs to be the badass character you knew all along he could be. And, of course, when they randomly say/do something that you didn't expect.

I love the voices in my head. <3 <3 <3

[Wayne K]

I think you two are starting to lose your marbles.

I like the company.

[Enna]

This makes total sense to me! I love it. :)

I finished a first draft and was halfway through revising when a character that I thought was a good little girl informed me that her uncle had taught her how to hotwire a car. Then she proceeded to do it just to prove it. She's a lot cooler now.

[Phaeal]

Like so many things the subconscious does, this aspect of writing seems miraculous. The brain is an amazing sack of jelly, all right.

On the other hand, maybe the characters really are real. Maybe they plot in their little alternate realities to make us THINK that it's all just our subconscious. They're sneaky buggers, those characters. ;)

[DeleyanLee]

You mean I'm supposed to know everything before I start writing? Ghods, where's the fun in that?

[ChaosTitan]

So have your characters ever whispered in your ear things like, "Oh, I forgot to tell you something..." or "Did you know I once...?"


Hell yeah. :)

My biggest problem child right now is the hero of my series. He's reticent, doesn't like to talk about the past ever, and getting any sort of info from him (by me or by the heroine) is like cutting a lawn with cuticle scissors. But when I do discover things, they're usually Eureeka! moments.

I just write what the voices in my head tell me to write. :D

[Adam]

I get this all the time. :)

My most recent two were both when writing my novella. One character decided he was gay, and another decided she had a tail (fantasy, obviously ;) ).

It's one of the many reasons why I love writing so much. :D

[Wayne K]

I just started rewriting my memoir and the MC told me he's a studmuffin.

This stufff works.

[Adam]

I just started rewriting my memoir and the MC told me he's a studmuffin.

This stufff works.


:roll:

[Ol' Fashioned Girl]

My MC in the Temporarily Lost Misplaced PA Book told me in no uncertain terms she'd never, ever, as in 'no way!', do something the way I'd had her do it. I - fool that I am - ignored her and the biotch would NOT SHUT UP 'til I did it her way. And... she was right, damn her.

I love it when the characters take over. Makes my job that much easier.

[Charlie Horse]

Race is always somewhat of a surprise to me. I had a character who turned out to be Asian with me not realizing it soon enough to keep from having to flesh that angle out during rewrites.

[knight_tour]

My characters seem to write their own chapters. I tend to have only a single plot point that will happen in a chapter when I sit down to write, and a couple hours later I get up from the computer with a finished chapter and have little idea how it came out the way it did. I had two likeable minor characters that I thought would stick around until the end of my story, but in a chapter I recently wrote they both ended up dead, and I had no idea they would die when I began typing.

[Harper K]

And it's amazing how this drip-fed information works its way into the story to such an extent you reach the end, thinking, "Wow. It wouldn't have worked so well any other way. That all ties in." It's as if certain characters arrive at the story's jumping-off point complete in themselves, but they neglect to make certain confessions until the relevant part of the story.


Nicely put.

I wrote about a character for TEN YEARS before I realized she was a lesbian. Six years ago, I was working on a novel with a chapter in her POV, and one sentence in which she was professing her love for her then-boyfriend just didn't sit right with me. Actually, her whole character had seemed kind of blah in the last few pieces I had written in her POV.

I looked at the sentence again, took out the boyfriend's name, substituted her female best friend's name, and ... A-HA! Suddenly that novel was off and running.

It still turned into a trunk novel (the plot was completely absurd), but I have a whole new understanding of her character, and now I'm working on a WIP that's entirely in her POV, and it's going really well.

[scarletpeaches]

To pacify Adzmodeus, I feel duty-bound to credit him with calling tt42 "a robot ninja from the future with pens for fingers".

This came after an email exchange in which we boggled - yes, boggled! - at how prolific she is. :D

There. Happeh nao?!

[Wayne K]

I wrote about a character for TEN YEARS before I realized she was a lesbian..

I had the same thing happen with my first wife.

[Adam]

To pacify Adzmodeus, I feel duty-bound to credit him with calling tt42 "a robot ninja from the future with pens for fingers".

This came after an email exchange in which we boggled - yes, boggled! - at how prolific she is. :D

There. Happeh nao?!

My love? You haz it. *mwah* :)

Lori's word output scares me. :(

[vrabinec]

Race is always somewhat of a surprise to me. I had a character who turned out to be Asian with me not realizing it soon enough to keep from having to flesh that angle out during rewrites.

You bastard. One of my characters saw this, and now she's decided that she wants to be Asian too. Let's not give them any more ideas, or next thing you know, they'll want jailhouse tats and nipple rings.

[Toothpaste]

One of my minor characters came out of the closet halfway through the book. I was like, "But dude, why didn't you tell me earlier? That would have helped in some of your other interactions with your fellow characters." It truly is an odd moment, but that's what makes writing so awesome.

[The Lonely One]

I just had a dream last night where a bunch of faces I've never seen (or, don't consciously remember seeing) were waiting as I tried to get cash out of a really complicated ATM thingy. One guy helped by putting in his card and pin, but when it later asked to verify his pin he'd left. And I didn't know it. So I had to start over, and one of the people who was patient until now got up angrily and stormed out, saying "that's it, I'm leaving."

Well I wasn't thinking about that consciously when it happened. My mind created and put into play all these characters I'd never met and didn't forsee their actions. And then I thought, wait, doesn't this happen to me all the time when I'm writing? To a lesser extent, but I think there might be a connection worth mention here between dreaming and whatever it is we do at the computer screen.

[Wayne K]

This just in:

My MC wants to "get busy" with SP's MC as Lori's biochemist watchs.

This thread will live forever.

[Adam]

This just in:

My MC wants to "get busy" with SP's MC as Lori's biochemist watchs.

This thread will live forever.

Haha, I don't blame your "MC", they're both hawt. ;)


On topic-

One of my protagonists wasn't very happy being an angry b*stard all the time, and decided he wanted to funny occasionally. I agreed cos he scares me. :(

[SouthernFriedJulie]

You bastard. One of my characters saw this, and now she's decided that she wants to be Asian too. Let's not give them any more ideas, or next thing you know, they'll want jailhouse tats and nipple rings.

And those are problems?

[dgrintalis]

My characters do that to me all the time. Usually, they let me know about it when I try to make them do something that they wouldn't. Then they speak up and say yeah, about that? Don't think so.

Sometimes it comes out in dialog with other characters. That hurts my feelings. They're not willing to tell me, but they're willing to tell the other characters. Damn them.

[LaurieD]

One of my MC's informed me yesterday that she smokes pot, drinks, has plans for body piercings and at least one tattoo, fully intends to seduce the brother of one of her roommates, and can't stand the guy my other MC is flirting with.

Pretty tame stuff. The only problem is that my MCs share a body.

[Cyia]

It's happened to me twice that I can think of.

A semi-focal character who I wrote informed me that the "cute" nickname I used as her placeholder was just me mispronouncing her name. Apparently the red hair was a wig - she's Chinese.

And another main character was a candidate for baby daddy to a munchkin, to which his "everyone else knew she was just for the photoshoots" girlfriend/P.Hilton wannabe blurted "But, Bobby's gay!" He's still in contention for baby daddy, but it added an interesting layer.

[vrabinec]

And those are problems?

For a nun...

[Kaylee]

In my new WIP my cartoon character became my MC's guardian angel.


There's no problems, only solutions. -- John Lennon

[AZ_Dawn]

Two of my characters have a fake romance as a joke on their crewmates. I was thinking about a scene where they're talk alone (can't remember about what) when one clasped the other's hands in a more than friends manner. :eek: That was months ago, and I'm still trying to figure out if they have "feelings" for each other or if there's another explanation for the hand grab.

[JamieMT]

I just start writing - it's mainly my characters who tell the story. When I get stuck, I just start asking questions, and pretty soon, they're chatting it up again.

Sometimes I wish they'd let me "guide" them a little more though...since I'm the one who has to fill in the plot holes they inevitably leave behind.

[Shail]

Yeah, it has happened. Some people think it's wierd/hokey to think of your characters as 'people' that can come to life, but well . . .

I was two chapters from finishing a fantasy WIP when my antagonist suddenly revealed something from his past that explains his hatred of women. Talk about annoying.

[Red_Dahlia]

My characters do this all the time. They're exceptionally pushy, and whenever I put one toe out of line that's different than who THEY think they are, they refuse to shut up until I fix it. They never listen to my arguments that I'm the d*** writer and I should be allowed to make them the way I want, either.

[midknighthaze]

I think you two are starting to lose your marbles.

I like the company.
:roll:
Aside from that, just recently I found out one of my character's a psychopath. Hmmm...

[Wayne K]

:roll:
Aside from that, just recently I found out one of my character's a psychopath. Hmmm...

Autobiography?

[BlueLucario]

This thread inspired by, yes, a conversation with thethinker42.

Without going into too much detail, the robot ninja from the future with pens for fingers (tt42 to you and me) told me she didn't know her two MCs' jobs until she came to write the scene where they discussed what they both did for a living.

Now to other folks that might seem a bit weird - and we are talking about tt42 here so it probably is - but it struck me that's happened a few times with me, too. (And I'm also weird so, meh).

I didn't know until writing the relevant chapter that my male MC from my previous WIP had been married before, or that he knew how to do certain illegal things...

And with WIP#2 - designed to occupy me for the next month so I don't start editing until I've left WIP#1 for a sufficient length of time - I was quite a few pages into it before one of the male MCs decided he was bisexual, a fact which influences the rest of the story and the group dynamic very strongly, and for the better I think. It certainly goes a long way to explaining why he does what he does...and why he does who he does.

Now I know we often talk about characters coming to life and it can seem a bit wanky. Our characters aren't real, no, but...they should seem as if they could be in my opinion and when they appear to tell us things we didn't previously know, clearly, these 'facts' are coming from our own minds; we'll call it the subconscious...or collective unconscious.

So have your characters ever whispered in your ear things like, "Oh, I forgot to tell you something..." or "Did you know I once...?"

And it's amazing how this drip-fed information works its way into the story to such an extent you reach the end, thinking, "Wow. It wouldn't have worked so well any other way. That all ties in." It's as if certain characters arrive at the story's jumping-off point complete in themselves, but they neglect to make certain confessions until the relevant part of the story.

tt42 often refers to her characters having 'magic feathers' - qualities that make them fly - and that would be a similar subject I think. The tiniest of details that make everything else fall into place and explain their actions and motivations, or add that extra spark to make characters come to life.

So...over to you. Discuss. :D

Story of my life!!

I had a character startle me with a PhD in Biochemistry today. Didn't see that one coming. Another character had a history as a drug abuser, one had an ex-wife who did more heinous things to him than I'd realized, and another had a, shall we say, "history" with one of the other main characters. WHO KNEW?

Then once in a while they'll come up with witty little lines that make me go "OH! I wish I'd thought of that!" Just today, one did that very thing, but I won't repeat it here, because it's dirty. (both beta readers loved it though)

The "magic feathers" are similar...it's the one thing (usually one thing, anyway) that suddenly gives the character his/her mojo and makes him, as you said, fly. This has come in the form of accents and even...yes...piercings.

I LOVE those moments. When you have that "EUREKA!" moment and the character gets what he needs to be the badass character you knew all along he could be. And, of course, when they randomly say/do something that you didn't expect.

I love the voices in my head. <3 <3 <3

You both are scaring me. :(

[scarletpeaches]

You both are scaring me. :(

Because we're mental? :D

[Cyia]

Because we're mental? :D

Because you're mental and have so many people who think just like you, I would imagine. :D

[The Lonely One]

Because you're mental and have so many people who think just like you, I would imagine. :D

Group mental-ity?

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Carry on. I've got a seance with my characters I'm late for...

[scarletpeaches]

Because you're mental and have so many people who think just like you, I would imagine. :D

We walk amongst you. My kind is everywhere. :D

[Stijn Hommes]

My current WIP has a related problem. My MC and secondary characters are revealing themselves, no problem, but the character that I want guidance from isn't talking. That is a problem, because without him talking, I have no idea how he pulled off the crime the MC is investigating...

[Wayne K]

We walk amongst you. My kind is everywhere. :D

We run sometimes.

[Ken Schneider]

I know that after so many pages written my characters do what they want and I watch and write down what they do.

I believe your character's actions however subtle stick in your mind and allow you to twist them when need be.

Like somewhere along the line as you write, a male character gives another male character a kiss on the cheek. Maybe they were great friends. Innocent enough when you wrote it and you had no thoughts about him being gay. But then something happens along the way and you remember that kiss and you put him in a situation where he does dabble in a gay relationship or one night stand with another male.

Plot evolution revolution I call it.

And, you have to have your character's gossip about each other. They'll say anything to make excitement and start trouble.
I'ts nice to be able to go back and make that gossip true or false.

[Wise Child]

Some time ago, I realized that my main character's "best friend" from high school must die sometime relatively soon after their high school years while the main character recalls their high school days. It all seems properly ironic to me. I think I'll hint at it, as vague suggestions in the prologue.

[LaurieD]

We walk amongst you. My kind is everywhere. :D

We run sometimes.

and skip...

... and rollerblade :D

[thethinker42]

I think you two are starting to lose your marbles.

I like the company.

Wait...we had marbles to begin with? If I did, I lost them a LONG time ago...

My love? You haz it. *mwah* :)

Lori's word output scares me. :(

I think you're more scared of WHAT I write than how much...

This just in:

My MC wants to "get busy" with SP's MC as Lori's biochemist watchs.

This thread will live forever.

My biochemist is somewhat occupied at the moment. :D Give him a day or two, and your MC might be able to have a go at him.

You both are scaring me. :(

Get used to it...we're insane. :D

We run sometimes.

With SCISSORS!

and skip...

... and rollerblade :D

I'm not allowed to be on wheels. It's a bad idea.

[LaurieD]

They have helmets and pads for that

[Adam]

I think you're more scared of WHAT I write than how much...


Pfft, your words don't scare me! They do other, much more fun, things. *Snerk.* :D

[Kaiser-Kun]

My characters are really fun to work with.

Vynen, being the almost-hyperactive-as-a-puppy guy he is, makes me a lot of questions. "What's that?", "What's inside?", "Who's that?", "What can he do?", "Is that edible?", "Where am I now?"

Anara, being a rebel at heart and very aggressive when things don't go her way, always surprises me. A normal talk to convince Vynen of leaving with her became almost a kidnapping.

Rophen goes with the flow, he jumps cliffs, and punches people simply because they're there. He's someone I use to set the mood and define the scene: Fight, flight, or chat, the reader, the writer, and the cast are able to know what's this scene going to be like by looking at Rophen.

[roseangel]

My villain decided he didn't want to be the villain anymore, he wanted to be a vaguely creepy guy who runs off to a love motel with his mom, while his dad wanted to be the villain.
It was kinda of surprising, really, but suddenly it all made sense!

[benbradley]

My two MC's are by themselves in a cramped spaceship, the next nearest human being is six hours away as the photon flies, but I can't remember either one of their names from one Sunday night to the next.

[ccv707]

I use stream of consciousness heavily, both in writing through my character's thoughts and in letting the words flow through my fingers without much conscious thought. I start by creating my characters with a basic idea of who they are and where they come from, but after that, I let them go off and...I can't think of any better way to say this right now...kinda do their own thing. A lot of the time, I'm just along for the ride when the characters are moving around. Conversations, arguments, fights, and character deaths are often things that happen on the fly with me, and sometimes I'm writing and I'm telling myself, "No! Get out of there!", or something of that nature, because it feels as though they make the choices for themselves.

[Eric San Juan]

I'd be surprised if any writer with more than a few finished projects under their belt hasn't experienced this from time to time. If we work hard to make our characters real people and allow their dialogue and actions flow in a very natural way, they're bound to surprise even us, the people who created them in the first place. A conversation might turn in a direction we did not expect, or a stray thought or scene might reveal something we did not previously know. It might be a very but revealing small thing -- we find out red is their favorite color -- or it might be something major.

I like those moments. I like that sense of discovery. They're invigorating. They push me on to keep writing.

[BlueLucario]

My characters acting up is the main REASON I don't outline. I build up everything to reach up to an epic part of the story, but my characters don't want to do it.

Prince Charming: You can't make me jump off.
Author: JUMP OFF THE DAMN CLIFF. I'll make you. If I can't, I'll kill your sweet precious princess Sexy.

[Lady Cat]

*sigh* I knew I shouldn't have started reading this thread.

Now the MC from a novel I haven't even started writing yet wants a piercing and her love interest is practically drooling because he thinks it would be really hawt!

[seun]

A supporting character two books ago told me he was gay. The only conscious reason I could think of for this later was that I needed him to be childless - which doesn't work 100%, of course. I was happy to decide he was right about the man love and left it at that.

[ccarver30]

As you probably know, this happens to me all the time. I had no idea how was going to wrap up my novel Stone and Glass then all of a sudden someone had a vendetta against my MC that I didn't know about; luckily it was for good reason.

Stuff comes out of the blue all the time. I think this is how it should be...

[MDei]

In one of my books, one of my main characters revealed her real mother was dead and the woman everyone thought was her mother was her step mother. Another just conveneintly decided to tell me he needed glasses.

In my other novel, my character said she hates her dad. The two sisters told me they didn't have the same dad and another shocked me by saying that she had a personality disorder from being in oblivion a little too long.

Damn! This is better than soap operas. It's all kind of drama and more coming.

BREAKING NEWS: My main character's love interest wants to major in medicine!