New Examiner.com thread

[MacAllister]

We'll give this one more try.

Let's remember that AW forum discussions inevitably show up on the front page of Google, okay? Don't say anything here you wouldn't say to your channel manager.

Let's also try to get along a bit better, okay? I don't care if people agree with each other's definitions or explanations - it's always fine to simply agree to disagree.

[veinglory]

The main reason I am cooling on Examiner is that my channel Google group and other forums are very negative. It seems like traffic is slipping and so is the mood?

[herdon]

The overall traffic isn't slipping, but the average per Examiner may very well be slipping. There does seem to be a decent amount of turnover -- at least in my channel.

I like writing for Examiner.com. The pay is not bad compared to other places that pay on page views and the people at the HQ are generally nice.

I am a bit disappointed at the route they have taken. I think it was the right idea at the right time with the wrong strategy. The Internet is ripe for a localized content portal with expert views. Examiner.com's mistake was using a long tail strategy. They could have really been something special if they hadn't gone down that route.

But it can be a good place to write and a good source of income if you understand the basics of writing for a place that pays on page views and have a topic that lends itself to evergreen content. And like I said, the people are generally nice.

I've tried to step back from the discussion groups and such.

[KEllis]

I think to make a decent amount of money there, you really have to put a lot of time into it. I didn't have the time necessary, so I quit recently. If they provided a flat base pay plus traffic incentives, then they'd probably fare better. But I understand why they don't offer base pay with their business model (with the enormous amount of writers). I would think it would make more sense to have a small number of good writers for each city and pay them more, rather than 100s of writers for each city. But we'll see how it ends up. Good luck to everyone writing there; I hope it's very successful.

[herdon]

Web writing based on revenue sharing is definitely something with long term results in mind. It can be a great job, but it is one of those where you have to put in a lot of time for little pay at the beginning. They pay off is that -- if you work hard -- you can build up to a full time salary and only need to put in part time hours.

I do agree that Examiner.com would be better off with fewer examiners. You could take 1/10th of the number of writers Examiner has and get more overall page views if you make sure you get quality writers, train them on how to write for the web, and build a solid site.

[SouthernFriedJulie]

The main reason I am cooling on Examinber is that my channel Google group and other forums are very negative. It seems like traffic is slipping and so is the mood?

I've never participated in the communities-AC, eHow, or Examiner. I like the tips here. Because, I really do not mean to sound high and mighty with this, many of the writers on the first two I mentioned are not writers at all. They have no idea about writing for a living, what it is to write a query, or any of what we talk about here.

Now, I said I wasn't being high and mighty...I just find the level of ignorance in those communities unbearable. You can try to educate the ignorant-in some cases it works. I am a prime example of someone who thought that I would learn a heck of a lot from other writers at AC several years ago.

I did...I learned that if I followed a link to Absolute Write Water Cooler I would no longer be ignorant of how freelancing works. :-) You can blame Tsu Do Nihm for that, though I doubt he/she knows it at all. In fact, I need to thank them, I wouldn't be published now!

Anyway- writing for revenue share shouldn't be your only source of income. When you have the time, write the articles and try to build a library of content that will stream passive income. But, don't stop looking for your dream gig!

[herdon]

About.com has an excellent community. Now, the software the runs their internal forums is absolutely horrible. But the community of guides and the participation of staff is awesome.

[princessvessna]

About.com has an excellent community. Now, the software the runs their internal forums is absolutely horrible. But the community of guides and the participation of staff is awesome.

One thing alone that would improve the forum would be, say, topics with new posts rising to the top? :) But yes, everyone is SO helpful.

Oh and for Examiner - it's tough. I have 2 sites. It's nice to have my own Urban gardening site...but I find myself thinking that the time would be better spent on About. Not sure about it all.

[herdon]

One thing alone that would improve the forum would be, say, topics with new posts rising to the top? :)


Yeah, that is real annoying. But really, the whole thing needs to be rewritten.

[Inspiewriter]

I resigned from Examiner.com yesterday. I considered everything, and I don't make enough for it to be worthwhile. Maybe if I had time to go out on all the promo sites and dig up more page views, but I don't.

Plus, I was getting messages quite often from the channel manager to do things differently. And being the book and blog examiner. I was mainly doing promo for other writers, bloggers and bookstores, and that was nice, but only worth it if my pay was consistent.

[inkkognito]

You don't have to do the social networking thing to be successful on Examiner. I'm a good case in point. I have no time for Twitter, Facebook, Digg, and the like. But I think a lot of it has to do with your subject. Mine is one that people associate with Orlando and actively search out, so as long as I consistently provide good-quality articles, I can maintain good traffic.

[etrader]

I wonder why my page view is always below the average; is it something usual ? or just because I am new there, and it will be improved in the course of time ?

[blueobsidian]

If you are new, that would explain it. Someone with a large collection of articles is going to get more hits than someone who has only posted a few already. The more you have, the more you can interlink them and the more traffic will come from search engines.

[stldenise]

Geez, get busy for a few days and you really miss stuff around here. I read some of the bad reviews that Examiner was given...people really miss the boat don't they?

Anyway, I just want to report that although the shine has worn off for me with Examiner, I'm still keeping it up at a slower rate. I looked at my reporting page and was happy to see that even with me doing fewer posts the last two weeks, my hits are still the same as the "average" for my channel for the month.

I'm stilling doing a wait and see with Examiner - since my city hasn't been online very long, I'm hoping that the hits will go up as people around here find me.

[veinglory]

I am also continuing at a relaxed rate. The cost:benefit works out best for me at a post a week or thereabouts.

[MrAlex'sMommy]

I'm ok with my Examiner experience so far. I know I'm definitely not going to get rich off it, but like I said in the other thread, I'm actually having fun doing it. Today is only the start of my second week, and I only got about 1,500 views in my first week, but I hope that increases as time goes on. I am noticing a daily increase in page views, so hopefully that will continue! :)

If not, well, I have kids so I'm used to talking to myself. :D

[Health_Geek]

I'm ok with my Examiner experience so far. I know I'm definitely not going to get rich off it, but like I said in the other thread, I'm actually having fun doing it. Today is only the start of my second week, and I only got about 1,500 views in my first week, but I hope that increases as time goes on. I am noticing a daily increase in page views, so hopefully that will continue! :)

If not, well, I have kids so I'm used to talking to myself. :D

Same here :) (and ditto on the kids LOL) My channel manager finally approved my first post last night, and this morning when I woke up I saw that my page views had doubled overnight. I've been working on a series of posts that I'll continue to post on "slow" days, and go for the editorial calendar or current events the rest of the time. I see that Friday is Bike to Work day, so I'm going to see what I can whip up for that as far as preparation, health & stress reduction benefits, etc.

[etrader]

If you are new, that would explain it. Someone with a large collection of articles is going to get more hits than someone who has only posted a few already. The more you have, the more you can interlink them and the more traffic will come from search engines.

Thanks for this explanation! Yes I am new and do not expect much traffic from the beginning, but I feel the traffic is lesser than similar articles in suite101 or other competitors.

Am I right or it is just something related to my experience?

[inkkognito]

I think a lot has to do with your traffic. I don't have much to compare it to, other than my rev share articles at DS, but Examiner blows those away. Disney and the other theme parks are a hot topic anywhere tho' so I think that helps me a lot in terms of hits.

[etrader]

Thanks inkkognito,
I think my problem is that I do not understand the traffic system of Examiner (as there is no detailed traffic analysis).

Correct me if I am wrong, the average traffic for National Examiner is 200; this means that in average every article has a such traffic everyday (one article 0 views and another 400 views).

My pageviews are 20 (for 20 articles), which means each of my articles get one visit everyday. I wonder why my traffic for each article is 1 (in the range 0 - 400).

Or am I confused with the statistics?

[veinglory]

I assumed it meant the average hits a national examiner has received, so far that day, was 200. The count zeroes daily so it may not count a whole day. You can use the drop down to see the average for the curent or previous month, the current year etc.

[etrader]

I assumed it meant the average hits a nationa examiner has received, so far that day, was 200. The count zeroes daily so it may not count a whole day. You can use the drop down to see the average for the curent or previous month, the current year etc.

wow thanks veinglory,
now I got the point, I did not think that the average is for an examiner (including all published articles). So now my traffic is reasonable :)

[blueobsidian]

Thanks for this explanation! Yes I am new and do not expect much traffic from the beginning, but I feel the traffic is lesser than similar articles in suite101 or other competitors.

Am I right or it is just something related to my experience?

I think it just depends on what you write for and how large of a network of articles you have. I get less hits on Examiner than Suite, but the $$/1000 is WAY higher than I get for writing about television. The money ends up being pretty close when all is said and done, although I have been trying to branch out and write in other subject areas on Suite to raise my average.

[etrader]

One interesting feature of Suite101 is that the articles make money forever, and indeed older articles make more money. Since Examiner is quite young and no statistics on articles, there is no discussion on this topic. As Examiner like other competitors get the most visitors from search engines, it should be the case for Examiner too; however, do you have any comment on this issue?

[blueobsidian]

I'm not quite sure what you are looking for. I suppose that my only comment is that I refuse to worry about the distant futures of any of the websites I write for. Suite could fold in a month and then my articles certainly would not be making money forever. I try to keep the majority of my Examiner posts evergreen so as long as the site remains viable, they will get hits. Plus, like with Suite, interlinking articles is a great way to give new interest to old pieces.

[etrader]

You are quite write, blueobsidian, that articles in such websites are active as long as the site is viable. However, the case is somehow different for Examiner, as some of the examiners are for temporary events. I'm curious to know if the site policy is to focus on current events for evergreen topics.

[Health_Geek]

I thought about your question, etrader, and something I think you could do (somebody please correct me if I'm off base!) is write a targeted local article on your topic and then write one or two evergreen articles to link to from it. So for example you could write that Tuesday is National Lava Lamp Day, and highlight some things in your city that are celebrating, with links, how-tos etc. Then you could write an evergreen article or two about the Lava Lamp, and assuming you were a business writer, you would write about their business practices or how their stocks have performed, or whatever. I would post the evergreen articles first, and then post the local article with links to the evergreen articles. Then you have two relevant articles to read, but one is current and the others are evergreen. Every subsequent year you could link to the evergreen article.

[etrader]

Health_Geek, you proposed a practical approach; however, my question is about the general policy of Examiner. Since Examiner.com has no official forum, I believe here is an appropriate home for Examiner discussions.

[veinglory]

Examiner does have an official forum, the Epicenter (http://epicenter.examiner.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=5513).

[SouthernFriedJulie]

Health_Geek, you proposed a practical approach; however, my question is about the general policy of Examiner. Since Examiner.com has no official forum, I believe here is an appropriate home for Examiner discussions.

Didn't you say you were an Examiner, etrader? Didn't your channel manager send you the links? Get in contact with them for more info, they're all very friendly.

Also, link us to your Examiner site so we can link to you. We all have been listing each other.

[veinglory]

In my experience channel managers are hit and miss. I only hear from mine when I post something online that isn't 100% pro-Examiner.

[Thrillride]

Health_Geek, you proposed a practical approach; however, my question is about the general policy of Examiner. Since Examiner.com has no official forum, I believe here is an appropriate home for Examiner discussions.

There is no general policy. Examiners are asked to be experts in their field with a strong emphasis on local events. Health Geek's response was well thought-out.

One thing that's good to keep in mind is that if there's any worry about Examiner using your work in the future in other places (as they are allowed to by contract), the local/current angled articles don't have the same pinch. That is, it feels less offensive - not to mention less likely if it isn't an article that took hours of research as an evergreen article can.

BTW: My channel manager is awesome!

[MrAlex'sMommy]

You're lucky, Thrill. :) I can't even get through to my channel manager. I get the assistant channel manager, and I'm not too pleased with her.

[Thrillride]

You're lucky, Thrill. :) I can't even get through to my channel manager. I get the assistant channel manager, and I'm not too pleased with her.

*sigh* Sadly, my channel manager just got promoted. So a lot of the communication will be handled by her. I'm sad. My channel manager and I "got" each other.:cry:

[stldenise]

Sorry some of you guys have bad channel managers. My first one was awesome, but she was a temp. The new gal doesn't talk to us as much...but is ok when fielding questions, or when she does have an update.

Regarding evergreen/current event stuff. I'm in the parenting channel. My first ch. manager said to alternate between evergreen, local and national issues, but always tie the national stuff to a local source somehow. So, if I'm going to write about the Octomom, I could thrown in a link to local resources for moms with multilples in my town.

Anyway, she said to alternate. The idea was to build (and keep) an audience with current local info, but drawn in new readers with hot topics issues that might pop up on Google.

I haven't noticed any examiners for temporary events...but I haven't looked that hard. Could you list one, because now I'm curious.

[inkkognito]

My topic (Orlando Theme Parks) lends itself to evergreen content on hints and tips. I tie in to news whenever possible (i.e. new roller coasters opening, woman arrested for selling fake vacations, etc.) but I always include at least three related links back to my evergreen articles.

[MrAlex'sMommy]

Denise, I actually just saw one for a temporary event. I can't find it now, but there was an examiner specifically for Obama's "First 100 Days" in office.

[Health_Geek]

If you wanted to write a series of articles on a topic for Suite101, but wanted to cross-link to articles you've written for Examiner, is that frowned upon? I'm thinking of a nutrition topic for Suite, but want to do book reviews related to that topic for Examiner because I don't get the impression that Suite is much of a review site. I would cross-link between both.

Thank you! :D

[Shadow_Ferret]

In my experience channel managers are hit and miss. I only hear from mine when I post something online that isn't 100% pro-Examiner.
You mean something not pro-Examiner in your own personal blog or what?

[stldenise]

If you wanted to write a series of articles on a topic for Suite101, but wanted to cross-link to articles you've written for Examiner, is that frowned upon? I'm thinking of a nutrition topic for Suite, but want to do book reviews related to that topic for Examiner because I don't get the impression that Suite is much of a review site. I would cross-link between both.

Thank you! :D

I think that's a great idea! I know my channel manager at Examiner encourages cross-linking whenever possible. I wrote a couple of Demand how-tos and tied them to my Examiner posts (using Examiner as a resource for the how-to article).

I don't think anyone at Suite would bat an eye at a link to Examiner, so long as the Examiner post is a solid resource.

[veinglory]

You mean something not pro-Examiner in your own personal blog or what?

I mean on the Examiners-only Google group.

[Thrillride]

I think that's a great idea! I know my channel manager at Examiner encourages cross-linking whenever possible. I wrote a couple of Demand how-tos and tied them to my Examiner posts (using Examiner as a resource for the how-to article).

I don't think anyone at Suite would bat an eye at a link to Examiner, so long as the Examiner post is a solid resource.

Yup...mine encouraged me to do this as well.

[Health_Geek]

Thank you so much, STLDenise and Thrill_Ride! I'm going for it then :D

[Mountain Mom]

I wonder why my page view is always below the average; is it something usual ? or just because I am new there, and it will be improved in the course of time ?

I have only posted 2 articles ...I am very new and I have above average views. Just keep posting and best of luck!!

[Cassiopeia]

I've been given a second topic to write for the examiner. I'm now the Salt Lake City Wellness Examiner. :) I'm happy about it as it will give me a chance to be more positive where the workplace issues one requires a different POV. I get to be all touchy feely in this one. :)

[Cassiopeia]

I have only posted 2 articles ...I am very new and I have above average views. Just keep posting and best of luck!! If you give us the link to your column I can add you to the other thread where there is a list of AW examiners.

[Orientalist]

I would think it would make more sense to have a small number of good writers for each city and pay them more, rather than 100s of writers for each city.

100s?! Are you serious? I had no idea but I've been busy, so maybe there's a whole discussion somewhere.

For those considering Examiner, it may be counter-intuitive but .... you're going to get more page views as a local examiner than as a national one. Then there are certain topics that also are better PV pullers. I'm not sure what they are--business? health?-- but not travel.

So being a national (which includes international) travel examiner is very near the bottom of the totem pole. I nearly always pull more than the daily average for the travel channel and very occasionally more than the national daily average, but I can't imagine ever getting 1,500 views in a week.

[veinglory]

Most of the larger cites do seem to have a few hundred Examiners.

[KEllis]

100s?! Are you serious? I had no idea but I've been busy, so maybe there's a whole discussion somewhere.

For those considering Examiner, it may be counter-intuitive but .... you're going to get more page views as a local examiner than as a national one. Then there are certain topics that also are better PV pullers. I'm not sure what they are--business? health?-- but not travel.

So being a national (which includes international) travel examiner is very near the bottom of the totem pole. I nearly always pull more than the daily average for the travel channel and very occasionally more than the national daily average, but I can't imagine ever getting 1,500 views in a week.

As of February, there were over 2,000 Examiners. The company aims to have 12,000 by the end of the year over 60 markets.

http://www.examiner.com/p-299037~Examiner_com_to_Recruit_12_000_Writers__Cal led_Examiners__in_2009_Across_60_Local_Markets.htm l

-Kori

[herdon]

For those considering Examiner, it may be counter-intuitive but .... you're going to get more page views as a local examiner than as a national one. Then there are certain topics that also are better PV pullers. I'm not sure what they are--business? health?-- but not travel.

The difference between page views as a local vs national examiner will ultimately be so small as to be irrelevant. The vast majority of traffic comes in through Google, which is blind to the whole local/national thing.

[razibahmed]

Examiner.com Launches 10 New Markets, Surpasses 6,400 Examiners
http://sev.prnewswire.com/computer-electronics/20090430/LA0871730042009-1.html

[Health_Geek]

I've been given a second topic to write for the examiner. I'm now the Salt Lake City Wellness Examiner. :) I'm happy about it as it will give me a chance to be more positive where the workplace issues one requires a different POV. I get to be all touchy feely in this one. :)

Congratulations! And yes, writing about health is a little touchy feely, but definitely in a good way :)

[veinglory]

As the tally increases, including leaving totally innactive Examiners on the books, I feel my enthusiasm wane further. Also, on reason I started with Examiner was because Google included them in the Google news channel, it looks like this is now happening less and less often?

[inkkognito]

I'm more concerned about the quality of some of the Examiners' work rather than all the inactives and the growing ranks. I read some articles that are full of horrible grammar, incomplete sentences, and just cringe. It reflects badly on everyone to have writers with no discernable skill. I also noticed quite a few Examiner regurgitating press releases or pieces from other websites verbatum. I sometimes use press releases, but I rewrite them to give some insider information or some other useful slant. If you're just going to use press releases, Examiner might as well just have a direct feed and eliminate the writers.

Overall though I'm still pretty happy with my experience. I love my topic so that counts for a lot, and my numbers are still up so I make a fairly decent amount.

[Health_Geek]

As the tally increases, including leaving totally innactive Examiners on the books, I feel my enthusiasm wane further.

There are a lot of them in my area who haven't posted in a month or two, yet their pictures and links are still being posted all over the place. I'm sure they're still getting a lot of PVs if they're so visible, which is a bummer for the rest of us who are putting out fresh content every day or two.

Even so, I am enjoying this so far and hopefully the inactive people will be replaced with people who can write well, and often.

[Cassiopeia]

My channel manager said that they are making an effort to clean up the inactives. About two to three weeks ago we spoke over the phone and he said, he gives them a chance if they don't respond then he deletes their accounts.

I'm rather chuffed today. On the top of my local examiner in the top scrolling menu both last Friday's Workplace article and this morning's Wellness article are being highlighted. That's nice of them.

[herdon]

I'm more concerned about the quality of some of the Examiners' work rather than all the inactives and the growing ranks. I read some articles that are full of horrible grammar, incomplete sentences, and just cringe. It reflects badly on everyone to have writers with no discernable skill. I also noticed quite a few Examiner regurgitating press releases or pieces from other websites verbatum. I sometimes use press releases, but I rewrite them to give some insider information or some other useful slant. If you're just going to use press releases, Examiner might as well just have a direct feed and eliminate the writers.


I think it is best for people to understand that Examiner.com is a content mill similar to Associated Content. They are following a 'long tail' strategy which means they are after quantity as much as quality.

That doesn't mean they are a bad place to write. I have fun with my topic. I just don't read much of what else goes on at Examiner. I realize it is a content mill and many Examiners will have poor writing and poor formatting -- that's the road Examiner.com chose to go down.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I'm rather chuffed today.

Is chuffed a good thing?

[veinglory]

Herdon, I am of a similar opinion, but I did think they had the potential to be a better sort of content mill or even some kind of hybrid. Afterall contributors are encouraged to consider themseleves journalist, they just are actually required to perform at that level--so inevitably many don't.

[Cassiopeia]

Is chuffed a good thing?Sorry. :D It's a South African saying. YES it is a good thing.

[inkkognito]

I think it is best for people to understand that Examiner.com is a content mill similar to Associated Content. They are following a 'long tail' strategy which means they are after quantity as much as quality.
I find that to be a shame, as Examiner has decent credibiity with many of the organizations I've approached to get information for articles. I've also been invited to many media events on the basis of my Examiner work. I'd hate to see that credibility evaporate if they just run willy-nilly after quantity and let the quality go to hell.

[herdon]

Herdon, I am of a similar opinion, but I did think they had the potential to be a better sort of content mill or even some kind of hybrid. Afterall contributors are encouraged to consider themseleves journalist, they just are actually required to perform at that level--so inevitably many don't.

I think they had the potential to do a lot more as well. Definitely the right idea at the right time with the wrong implementation. For the longest, I thought their steps towards quantity over quality was just an ignorance by their staff -- they definitely have a lot to learn in how to put together a good web content portal so it isn't too far fetched they'd make similar missteps in how to grow their Examiners.

But two things really make me think they are employing your classic long tail strategy: (1) they were very quick to move in and stop negative comments in the Google discussion groups when Examiners had their doubts about certain things such as design changes, often asking that Examiners voice their gripes through private channels. And (2) Their Examiner newsletters had a very marketing feel to it as if they were partially aimed at selling Examiner.com to Examiners -- you do that when you view Examiners as your 'customers' rather than your 'partners'.

Again, none of this is to say that Examiner.com is a bad place to write. Their pay rates are currently above average as far as pageview rates go and I think the staff has always been relatively nice. The long tail strategy works, so I think they'll stick around for years to come -- which is probably the most important thing when doing this kind of writing since it really takes years to pay off.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Wow, only 7 clicks today so far. Guess I should just pad my story with keywords like H1N1, beer, war, or just talk about the QWERTY keyboard all the time.

[herdon]

You don't need to pad a story with trending keywords to get page views, but even the best writing can get left out in the cold if you don't use some basic SEO.

Take your latest article for example. It's a good article, but very few people will find it because you don't use a good, relevant keyword phrase in your title or in your first paragraph.

A simple change to "Increase Allen Lapham: Wisconsin's first great scientist" and including the name in the first paragraph will give your article a shot at coming up when people search for Increase Allan Lapham. (Obviously, the opening paragraphs would need to be altered to go in line with this change.)

You have to remember that not very many people are going to find your article because they are browsing Examiner.com. People find articles by Googling for information.

Anyway, that would be my tip to keep in mind for future articles if you want to boost your page views.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Oh.

[Cassiopeia]

Oh.Go edit, Ed. You can change it still and then people will find it.

As for me, I'm just not stressing about what people think or how this is going to turn out. I'm focusing on topics and writing.

Some people will like my voice, some won't. It's just how it is.

[RamJay]

Unfortunately, I think being content mills is what the current online model for many established print publications and other media. It's not limited to the Examiners and Abouts of the world. My last two positions have used a content first, quality second platform. At one emplyer where I was an online editor I was actually instructed one time to start filling the site with content -- press releases, news submissions, whatever -- and to put them in a spot where no one could find them with ease. The idea was that we could build up the number of pages on the overall site, which would help with the home page's SEO. It was ridiculous. But I think it shows that even more than a decade of the Internet being a pretty common force in information distribution that most don't have a clue how to handle it. It's a trap that Examiner appears to have fallen into and you'd better believe bigger more established sites still use a quantity over quality model.

Some day I think we'll see this backfire on a lot of media, and maybe even soon. To some extent I would like to join up with Examiner, but I am also sick of writing for search engines and not the reader. Really the key is to write well, with a strong keyword phrase that is about the topic at hand. But I have to say, sometimes I wonder if the powers in charge would really care if you established "Britney Spears Naked" as solid SEO if it brought tons of people to the site/page, even if those were cheap PVs?

[herdon]

Unfortunately, I think being content mills is what the current online model for many established print publications and other media. It's not limited to the Examiners and Abouts of the world.

About.com doesn't use a long tail strategy towards its writers nor is it a content mill in the sense that I am using the term. They have a limited number of spots and a high barrier to becoming a guide with them, both of which are there to increase the quality of content on the site.

It's important to note that a site like Examiner using a long tail strategy and a writer for a site like Examiner using a long tail strategy are two different things.

[Cassiopeia]

You can't blame the model, blame the reader. If readers stop going to the sites, they'd demand a higher quality of writing from all their authors. Today, I saw an article from someone who also writes for the health topic and all she did was find articles, briefly summarize them like a college paper and link to them. It was boring as hell. I wouldn't have gone there except it was in my google group for this new channel.

Start complaining to the readers if you can. Otherwise, moaning about it is futile and only feeds the discouragement and tends to give others the idea that the only way to get ahead is to cave in and write shit.

[veinglory]

There is always a market for $1 hamburger. But that doesn't mean you can't open a gourmet restaurant with a well-paid chef. You just go for a smaller number of richer customers who appreciate the difference between food and cuisine.

[RamJay]

On the surface it may be the reader but the people who run the sites are so deep in the belief that this is what works it is what they demand from their writers. That becomes the model. And I think the model will eventually fail. I don't know when, it could be 20 years, but at some point I think most readers are going to be fed up with being directed to crap that it will change. Or these empty page views will prove to be detrimental. Or both.

And About my have a difficult selection process, but in the end they still have nearly 800 sites and don't think for a second they don't want content, content, content from their guides. That hurts quality. The line they have between content mill and significant information source is very thin. Just like a majority of publications out there. Again, this all falls within this model, or whatever you want to call it, and I'd imagine it will break eventually.

Also, don't ever give in and write crappy content. Ever. Take pride in everything you do and hope PVs and credibility come with it. There has to be a middle ground for the writer, and that is writing strong content for your auidience with eye toward good SEO.

[herdon]

You can't blame the model, blame the reader. If readers stop going to the sites, they'd demand a higher quality of writing from all their authors. Today, I saw an article from someone who also writes for the health topic and all she did was find articles, briefly summarize them like a college paper and link to them. It was boring as hell. I wouldn't have gone there except it was in my google group for this new channel.

Start complaining to the readers if you can. Otherwise, moaning about it is futile and only feeds the discouragement and tends to give others the idea that the only way to get ahead is to cave in and write shit.

How can you blame the reader? For the most part, they are coming in from Google or a similar search engine. All they know before they click on the link is the title and the very small snippet of a description Google chose to go along with the title.

They don't know it is crap until they visit the site.

Of course, the reason we don't run into stuff from Associated Content as much as we run into stuff from the NYTimes is that it mostly *is* crap. And crap tends to sink in Google whereas quality writing tends to rise.

These type of sites exist because they pay a revenue share, so 1,000 articles that get 5 page views a month is just as good as 1 that gets 5,000 a month.

[Weebil]

As someone who spends too much time on the internet, and not as much time writing, I took an Examiner.com position hoping it would spur me to write on a more regular basis (just started, I'll keep you posted, so to speak)
But I think the main issue is like anything else on the internet, when I come across something that speaks to me as to quality writing, is interesting, and has just plain good writing/content-I bookmark it, save it, print it or share it. Everything else I just click on past. At a minimum, I hope it provides a showcase as to my ability to write, rather than blogging. Blogging has to be the most inane use of bandwidth next to Twitter. And I have a Blog! Half the time when I search a subject on Google, I read halfway through an 'article' before I think WTF is this person talking about, and realize it's just some Blog. This is not to say that no one has a good Blog, but there sure is a lot of garbage out there-The Examiner will ultimately decide whether their model is working for them or not-or their sponsors will.

[herdon]

And About my have a difficult selection process, but in the end they still have nearly 800 sites and don't think for a second they don't want content, content, content from their guides. That hurts quality. The line they have between content mill and significant information source is very thin. Just like a majority of publications out there. Again, this all falls within this model, or whatever you want to call it, and I'd imagine it will break eventually.


There is a very large difference between a long tail model and About.com's model. Of course they want content. That's no different than any other content provider on the Internet (or off the Internet). That doesn't make everyone from the NYTimes to Yahoo to Wikipedia to The Onion a 'content mill'.

The best defining attribute of a content mill is employing a long tail strategy with their writers. I.E. quantity of writers and writing over quality of writers and writing.

About.com limits the number of writers and has a very measured process for weeding out underqualified writers for a particular subject. That may not be the best content portal on the web (though they did just win a Webby award), but they are very far from a content mill.

[Cassiopeia]

How can you blame the reader? For the most part, they are coming in from Google or a similar search engine. All they know before they click on the link is the title and the very small snippet of a description Google chose to go along with the title.

They don't know it is crap until they visit the site.

Of course, the reason we don't run into stuff from Associated Content as much as we run into stuff from the NYTimes is that it mostly *is* crap. And crap tends to sink in Google whereas quality writing tends to rise.

These type of sites exist because they pay a revenue share, so 1,000 articles that get 5 page views a month is just as good as 1 that gets 5,000 a month.It's so easy to blame Google isn't it? Rather than focusing on the fact that readers have a responsibility in not frequenting sites that are known for bad authorial content. And it's the bot's fault if we write badly too, I suppose. Not everything depends on the search engines. Once someone gets to your page it's up to you to keep them there and it's up to them to not go to your column again if you (not you specifically but in general) do shoddy workmanship.

[herdon]

It's so easy to blame Google isn't it? Rather than focusing on the fact that readers have a responsibility in not frequenting sites that are known for bad authorial content. And it's the bot's fault if we write badly too, I suppose. Not everything depends on the search engines. Once someone gets to your page it's up to you to keep them there and it's up to them to not go to your column again if you (not you specifically but in general) do shoddy workmanship.

I'm not sure why you think I am blaming anyone -- Google or otherwise. I'm just stating the fact that most people reach content through search engines, thus they are coming in 'blind' to the actual content.

I think it's a bit too much to expect every person out there to memorize every bad site and avoid it when they see it in SERPS. They'll go back to their result page and click on a new link y. Nothing wrong with that.

[Cassiopeia]

You asked me how I can blame the reader. It's quite easy. If they didn't keep going to the same CRAPPY sites then it wouldn't show up in google but sink to the bottom as you said. It just seems to me your posts are focusing way too much on just the SEO and not enough of the readership's responsibility to demand quality content, the author's responsibility to provide it or the site ownership's part in settling for less than quality.

[RamJay]

There is a very large difference between a long tail model and About.com's model. Of course they want content. That's no different than any other content provider on the Internet (or off the Internet). That doesn't make everyone from the NYTimes to Yahoo to Wikipedia to The Onion a 'content mill'.

The best defining attribute of a content mill is employing a long tail strategy with their writers. I.E. quantity of writers and writing over quality of writers and writing.

About.com limits the number of writers and has a very measured process for weeding out underqualified writers for a particular subject. That may not be the best content portal on the web (though they did just win a Webby award), but they are very far from a content mill.

We can agree to disagree on About and I think overall we are agreeing on the problems associated with writing for the web. I think About has a lot to offer and it has quality writers, but when pressured to produce as much content as possible in as little time as possible that affects quality. You're right, it is not technically a content mill and it has been successful with its model. All I'm saying is the line between About and some of the shadier sites might be closer than many realize. In fact, it could be argued that a site like Examiner is taking About's model to the extreme. And it looks like that is ready to blow up in its face.

[herdon]

We can agree to disagree on About and I think overall we are agreeing on the problems associated with writing for the web. I think About has a lot to offer and it has quality writers, but when pressured to produce as much content as possible in as little time as possible that affects quality. You're right, it is not technically a content mill and it has been successful with its model. All I'm saying is the line between About and some of the shadier sites might be closer than many realize. In fact, it could be argued that a site like Examiner is taking About's model to the extreme. And it looks like that is ready to blow up in its face.

I don't think we disagree at all if you don't consider About.com a content mill. I certainly agree that any site that pays based on readership will have an effect on quality, but that has always been true of writing. You can see that on ESPN when Skip Bayless opens his mouth and says what he thinks the audience will find most outragious or when countless political commentators open their traps or even when publishers become flooded with Twilight-like manuscripts.

[Uncarved]

just a brief side question

Do we get paid today from Examiner? I've not been paid prior and was just making sure when to expect it. Thanks

[Shadow_Ferret]

It just occurs to me that this SEO/SVO/SOS or whatever you guys call it works contrary to my writing style. I'm not going to put keywords in either my title or my first paragraph because I like teasing the reader before letting them in on the subject.

To thine own self be true.

[blueobsidian]

But do you actually expect the reader to stay on the page that way?

If I'm looking for information on the internet and I don't see a title, subheadings or info in the first paragraph that leads me to believe an article has what I need, I'm gone. I won't bother reading the whole thing to see if maybe you wrote something useful.

[Thrillride]

It just occurs to me that this SEO/SVO/SOS or whatever you guys call it works contrary to my writing style. I'm not going to put keywords in either my title or my first paragraph because I like teasing the reader before letting them in on the subject.

To thine own self be true.

I struggle with this, too. But here's the deal. Simply put, you'll get more hits with a little SEO because the fact is most web readers are antsy - they have a few minute, they want to get in and get out and that equals more money. So, you'll make more cash if you just do a little bit anyway, but you don't have to.

I was stubborn like that for a while...then I started getting annoyed that people were really seeing some nice cash flow and I wasn't, so I altered it - just a bit. I definitely keep my style in there but do try to get straight to the point in the title so the reader will come and read.

Really the teasers are best left to print or even books. It's perfectly fine to write the way you'd like, just understand that you won't get the traffic others are seeing. I solved it this way: I write my stuff with just a tad of SEO...and I also blog on my own site with teasers and write it up in grand style! This way, I get to write in all different ways.

When you think about it, a well-rounded writer doesn't just write one way - yes, they always have a certain style or voice, but it's nice to be able to write in authoritative 3rd person like Suite 101 wants their writers to. A writer should also be able to write in 1st or even 2nd person correctly. Blogging style is different from news article style is different from a memoir, etc.

It's no different here. You shouldn't give up your style but it seriously does makes sense to keep to the style that brings the readers and in the web's case...you need the search engines and you need to give people what they want rather fast.

That said, of course you are free to do anything you'd like!

[inkkognito]

Shadow, you can do it both ways. I'm learning to go more for SEO headlines, but I also sprinkle my Examiner headlines with some teasers and puns. I just pick carefully and use SEO for the articles that have the most potential. For those I know will probably have a smaller readership anyway, I use little teasers. I'm virtually always in the top five in both Orlando and Travel so I must be doing something right!

[Shadow_Ferret]

I was stubborn like that for a while...then I started getting annoyed that people were really seeing some nice cash flow and I wasn't, so I altered it - just a bit. I definitely keep my style in there but do try to get straight to the point in the title so the reader will come and read.


I write history. I'm never going to get the traffic others who write about current events or sex or office politics or what have you get.

You either read my stuff because you're interested in the history of Milwaukee and Wisconsin or you don't.

I'm not going to write pyramid style just to get extra hits if its not waht's best for the story I'm telling.

That said, doing it my way, I'm still getting higher hits then the rest of the Milwaukee average. (granted a lot of that could simply be you nice fellow examiners visiting it. :))

[herdon]

I write history. I'm never going to get the traffic others who write about current events or sex or office politics or what have you get.


History isn't a bad topic for getting a good amount of traffic. In fact, it's a very good topic for building up traffic because it easily lends itself to evergreen material.

That said, you are more than free to write how you please.

[Shadow_Ferret]

evergreen material.


Evergreen?

[Cassiopeia]

As for me, I'm quickly drawing to an end with my association with them. I've no motivation to continue when I am not making the money I'd hoped, I've done all they ask AND, I think it's too low a pay for the investment.

I know I've been so gun-ho. But you know, I have been reading a lot of the other examiners and (not you guys) but many of them are so bad at what they write, I'm afraid I will be lumped in with them and I am quickly wondering if I should associate my future with them.

Yeah I know...a complete about-face. (pun intended)

[Thrillride]

I write history. I'm never going to get the traffic others who write about current events or sex or office politics or what have you get.

You either read my stuff because you're interested in the history of Milwaukee and Wisconsin or you don't.

I'm not going to write pyramid style just to get extra hits if its not waht's best for the story I'm telling.

That said, doing it my way, I'm still getting higher hits then the rest of the Milwaukee average. (granted a lot of that could simply be you nice fellow examiners visiting it. :))

Neither of mine are current events, nor sex, nor movies, not Hollywood, or politics.

I'm the SF Gardening Examiner...I dirt, LOL and I also do SF Wildlife Examainer - talk about niche.

Anyway, no one said anything about "pyramid style" - I think you're choosing to look at this as an "all or nothing" approach.

Just isn't so.

Anyway, "evergreen" refers to articles that don't really get old..."How to Brush Your Dog's Teeth" as opposed to current which would be.."Oprah's Puppy Died Saturday".

[inkkognito]

The good thing about building a stable of evergreen stuff is that you can link newsy articles back to it. For example, I did an article today about the American Idol winner going to Disney World and linked it back to a previous review of Disney's Idol attraction.

For history, you can build up a library of evergreens, then watch the news for someone you can connect that with and write a current article about. Simply include links in the newsy article back to the evergreens and voila! More clicks, more readership.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I'm the SF Gardening Examiner...I dirt, LOL and I also do SF Wildlife Examainer - talk about niche.

Anyway, no one said anything about "pyramid style" - I think you're choosing to look at this as an "all or nothing" approach.

Just isn't so.


Yeah, I am sort of looking at it as all or nothing. I either put in keywords or I don't. ;)

And how do you manage 2? Seems one takes all my time.

As for me, I'm quickly drawing to an end with my association with them. I've no motivation to continue when I am not making the money I'd hoped, I've done all they ask AND, I think it's too low a pay for the investment.
I've always thought the pay was too low. If I wasn't umemployed and wasn't using it as a way to build up a portfolio and to have something positive on my resume, I'd probably never have gotten involved.

I think I've written about 30,000 words for them and have earned all of $10.00. Not sure what the per word rate for that is, math isn't my strong suit, but I'm sure it's less than I'd accept for any other serious writing project. Everytime I post an article I can't help but think of what Harlan Ellison would say.

[inkkognito]

just a brief side question

Do we get paid today from Examiner? I've not been paid prior and was just making sure when to expect it. Thanks
Yes, I got my Examiner pay today.

[KTC]

As for me, I'm quickly drawing to an end with my association with them. I've no motivation to continue when I am not making the money I'd hoped, I've done all they ask AND, I think it's too low a pay for the investment.

I know I've been so gun-ho. But you know, I have been reading a lot of the other examiners and (not you guys) but many of them are so bad at what they write, I'm afraid I will be lumped in with them and I am quickly wondering if I should associate my future with them.

Yeah I know...a complete about-face. (pun intended)

This is a very wise post, Cass. Congratulations on making the move. Good luck with your future endeavors.

[Cassiopeia]

Thank you, KTC. It was a very difficult decision to make.

[HeidiW]

Been away for a few days, just catching up with this thread. My thoughts/feelings on this are similar to Thrill's.

I enjoy writing. I don't enjoy figuring out what keywords to use and making sure I use them. So thus far, I have made little to no attempt to conduct or make use of any keyword research in my writing for Examiner. I do it for BrightHub because it's required. I wish I could just pay someone to do that part for me, hopefully soon I'll be able to.

But that said, I write about subjects I am passionate about (Tucson Pets & National Cats), and I know that I have a lot to say and share in terms of information and ideas. The question is, will the people who would appreciate it and benefit from it even find it?

So I do intend to start doing what most people would call SEO. However I don't look at it as throwing in keywords to draw traffic to boost my rankings and get more $, because that doesn't motivate me sufficiently. I look at it as realizing that if I want people who would appreciate my writing to find it, I have to figure out how they would look for it and make sure my articles will appear in their search results.

A friend of mine does marketing based on the law of attraction, and she extends the saying "what you seek is seeking you" by adding phrases like "how will your perfect customers/partners/etc know they've found you?" I know people what to hear what I have to say, but how will they find and recognize me?

That's how I reconcile my dislike of the general concept of SEO and content mills with my realization that I can't succeed at what I'm here to do if I'm writing in a vacuum.

Just my two cents. Ok, I'll bump it up to 36 cents since I finally got my first non-referral examiner payment today. ;)

Heidi

I struggle with this, too. But here's the deal. Simply put, you'll get more hits with a little SEO because the fact is most web readers are antsy - they have a few minute, they want to get in and get out and that equals more money. So, you'll make more cash if you just do a little bit anyway, but you don't have to.

I was stubborn like that for a while...then I started getting annoyed that people were really seeing some nice cash flow and I wasn't, so I altered it - just a bit. I definitely keep my style in there but do try to get straight to the point in the title so the reader will come and read.

Really the teasers are best left to print or even books. It's perfectly fine to write the way you'd like, just understand that you won't get the traffic others are seeing. I solved it this way: I write my stuff with just a tad of SEO...and I also blog on my own site with teasers and write it up in grand style! This way, I get to write in all different ways.

When you think about it, a well-rounded writer doesn't just write one way - yes, they always have a certain style or voice, but it's nice to be able to write in authoritative 3rd person like Suite 101 wants their writers to. A writer should also be able to write in 1st or even 2nd person correctly. Blogging style is different from news article style is different from a memoir, etc.

It's no different here. You shouldn't give up your style but it seriously does makes sense to keep to the style that brings the readers and in the web's case...you need the search engines and you need to give people what they want rather fast.

That said, of course you are free to do anything you'd like!

[LisaBurke]

"what you seek is seeking you"

This is my new favorite saying to mutter to myself in times of doubt.



I think in the matter of SEO keyword stuffing, everyone should just agree to disagree. It's sort of like sales. A lot of great salesmen network like crazy, put on a phony smile, and tell you everything you want to hear. A lot of those guys make good cash.

And then there's the old guy down the street, who everyone loves and trusts. He might not make a lot of money, but he loves what he does, and he does all right.

I'm not saying that we're one or the other, but it's just a different style of operation. Some people are one way, others are another. The great thing about life is you get to pick which one you wanna be.

[HeidiW]

This is my new favorite saying to mutter to myself in times of doubt.
Cool. It's an ancient Sufi saying attributed to Rumi.
goodreads.com/quotes/show/83089 (http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/show/83089)

[RamJay]

Here's something I feel when it comes to SEO -- I really think if you write well and to your topic keywords and SEO in general take care of themselves. Write how you always do and then go back and look when you are editing, chances are the key words you need are already there.

The main tweak comes from style. I love a short punchy lede. Problem is that doesn't leave enough room to get your keyword phrase in the first graph and doesn't work well for web writing. Not to the point enough. But I generally would have the proper keywords thereafter in a nutgraph or the like. So I've had to adjust to get it all in one graph. It's made me cringe at times to make these adjustments, but in the end, my style really hasn't changed much and my keywords get where they are supposed to be.

Don't keyword stuff. It dumbs down the copy and that can be picked up by search engines as well. Find the three or four words that describe the story, get them in the flow of writing up high (first graph) and then get them in the meta title and the hed and you should be set.

[herdon]

I think in the matter of SEO keyword stuffing, everyone should just agree to disagree.

Not sure anyone has mentioned anything about keyword stuffing, but since you brought it up, keyword stuffing is considered bad for SEO for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that Google can recognize it.

But, don't think anyone here has been saying anything about keyword stuffing unless I missed it.

[Wendy J]

As for me, I'm quickly drawing to an end with my association with them. I've no motivation to continue when I am not making the money I'd hoped, I've done all they ask AND, I think it's too low a pay for the investment.

I know I've been so gun-ho. But you know, I have been reading a lot of the other examiners and (not you guys) but many of them are so bad at what they write, I'm afraid I will be lumped in with them and I am quickly wondering if I should associate my future with them.

Yeah I know...a complete about-face. (pun intended)

I feel much the same as you and I'm no longer doing my site.

[LisaBurke]

But, don't think anyone here has been saying anything about keyword stuffing unless I missed it.

Sorry, I was exagerrating a bit. When I'm optimizing word choices I have the feeling that I'm "stuffing" words in there. I did not mean what you are referring to.

[Kris]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124287328648142113.html

Anyone have any thoughts as to how this relates to Examiners? Goes to the "are we bloggers or journalists" question.

[Autodidact]

It just occurs to me that this SEO/SVO/SOS or whatever you guys call it works contrary to my writing style. I'm not going to put keywords in either my title or my first paragraph because I like teasing the reader before letting them in on the subject.

To thine own self be true.

If someone uses Google to search for your subject, your site won't come up, so they won't get to it to see your lovely style. Maybe a compromise?

[Shadow_Ferret]

Compromise art?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124287328648142113.html

Anyone have any thoughts as to how this relates to Examiners? Goes to the "are we bloggers or journalists" question.
Doesn't matter if you're a blogger or a journalist. If you post false information, defame, invade privacy, or violate copyright you'll get sued.

Which I find interesting. What about plagiarism? I was researching my topic for today and I found a wikipedia article that quoted verbatum information I found on another website. Now unless they were written by the same person (which I guess is possible), is wikipedia liable for plagiarism?

[Orientalist]

I've no motivation to continue when I am not making the money I'd hoped, I've done all they ask AND, I think it's too low a pay for the investment.

... I have been reading a lot of the other examiners and (not you guys) but many of them are so bad at what they write, I'm afraid I will be lumped in with them ...

Cassiopeia: How long did it take you to get to this point? I guess I've written 24? 26? stories and I'm fast approaching your mental state.

Susan

[veinglory]

It is likely that they other site got the inofrmation from Wikipedia, which is public domain.

[herdon]

Even beyond that, Wikipedia would probably fall under the hosting service label, which would make it immune to any copyright infringement suit so long as it acted to remove copyrighted material once it was proven to be infringement.

[Shadow_Ferret]

It is likely that they other site got the inofrmation from Wikipedia, which is public domain.

Wikipedia is public domain? That means... what? No one owns the material? Is the Encyclopedia Britainica public domain? I'm just curious because when I was in 4th grade I was accused of plagiarism and...

Um... nevermind.

[Cassiopeia]

Wikipedia is written and edited by the general public. Which is why my professors won't let anyone use it as a resource. The photos are also public domain on wiki, Ed so you can use them in your examiner articles. They are provided by Creative Commons.

[princessvessna]

Wikipedia is written and edited by the general public. Which is why my professors won't let anyone use it as a resource. The photos are also public domain on wiki, Ed so you can use them in your examiner articles. They are provided by Creative Commons.

I would be a tiny bit cautious in using pictures from Wikimedia. I do once in a while when I can't find something else, and I read the comments to see what license it's under. I have seen quite a few posted there that are copyrighted and not supposed to be public domain. They claim fair use in the license, but I don't believe it applies like they think it does.


What do you think of this editorial saying "Why Journalists Deserve Low Pay"?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090519/cm_csm/ypicard;_ylt=AjWolKBEtYlOk.XNo5G_Vgas0NUE;_ylu=X3o DMTFlOGZ1cjNwBHBvcwMyMjAEc2VjA2FjY29yZGlvbl9vcGlua W9uBHNsawN3aHlqb3VybmFsaXM-

[princessvessna]

Compromise art?


Doesn't matter if you're a blogger or a journalist. If you post false information, defame, invade privacy, or violate copyright you'll get sued.

Which I find interesting. What about plagiarism? I was researching my topic for today and I found a wikipedia article that quoted verbatum information I found on another website. Now unless they were written by the same person (which I guess is possible), is wikipedia liable for plagiarism?

Could you try Carl Frederick Zeidler - The singing mayor of Milwaukee? Something like that? That way you can capture people looking for Carl Frederick Zeidler.

It's a hard line to balance. The title currently is catchy. It's just with one small tweak...more people who don't know he sang could find your article.

If you want to make money, IMO, you have to write using SEO at least a tiny bit. Emphasis on tiny. Google has to have something to latch onto.

When I write for my About site, I first start with an idea in mind. I then take a peek at Adwords to just get a sense of keywords I could possibly use. They have to be reasonable, though - no strange combinations I can't use naturally.

Mine are somewhat easy - for example, I just did a blog post with "birch trees" in mind. For another piece, I chose "attract hummingbirds". I don't use it over and over and over. Just a key few sprinkled in naturally here and there in the text. I use it in the URL, and title, and meta-data.

I'd like to think there's something I'm doing right, since quite a few of my pieces are #1 or at least in the first page of results, out of millions.

I just think that perhaps you could just add his name to the title, so Google recognizes it's an article about him easier.

[Kris]

Princess-

I disagree with the premise that knowing how to write isn't a "unique base of knowledge" and funny that the editorialist elevates electricians and professors above journalists--as if professors were so highly paid!

I am good friends with a couple of people who work on Wall Street. These people have made outrageous money since I've known them, and complained every year about how underpaid they are. "My base salary is only $250k, and I got SCREWED at bonus time this year!" Quite a few of them got paid handsomely even THIS year.

I like these people a lot and don't begrudge them their pay, but I've pondered quite a bit as to why it's so high. It's not a question of "societal value," since bankers are reviled (more so now than ever) and teachers (to choose a random example) are lauded for the social value of what they do. I've come to the conclusion that Wall Street people make money for the same reason that pastry chefs have access to the freshest croissants. That's what there is where they work. The whole operation of those places is the generation of money from nothing.

The operation of newspapers is imbued from the ground up with the idea that money is tainted, at opposite corners with idealism, a clouding factor, something to be sniffed at or reported on from a distance...It's in the genes. Money is considered to cloud objectivity, and it does.

So to me, the argument that journalists deserve low pay misses the point entirely. If the model of journalism changes so that profit is a priority, well, there's just going to have to be an entirely different conception of journalism...or an entirely different conception of profitability...Or these people all need to get stockbrokers to invest their pay for them. Which is what kept the NYT in business...until recently, that is.

[Cassiopeia]

The only thing I have to say about the article, Princess, is that I agree the new model for publication online is going to be difficult at best to make much money in it.

My biggest complaint, if you (general you not specifically you) haven't already read my blog post is that for examiner, I had to illustrate, write, edit, publish and market for my column and for what? No money? While they rake in the advertising dollars paid to them by their sponsors? Examiner writers are doing ALL the work for the powers that be. We deserve to be paid compensation reflective of all the respective duties required to be an examiner.

I have been unable to see my yearly total since the 20th. I know I passed the first 25 dollar mark and don't know if I will ever see it. I resigned both my columns early this morning.

I can work for myself for free, thank you very much, examiner.

Another issue I had, in particular about an examiner in my workplace channel is that this man, goes around consuming other sites and rewriting them, barely escaping the accusation of plagiarism and many of the writers in the health channel were the same. I wrote original content for my two columns. Their claim that all examiners are writers and experts in their field?? Not bloody likely that all of them are.

I also resented having to come up with titles that were sensationalized in an effort to get more readers. Keywords, while important to SEO can also lead to MIS-leading the content just to be picked up.

I'm not cut out for it. I'm just not. I wish everyone else luck though. You know I love you guys!

[inkkognito]

I'm still getting added value via Examiner through media events (just attended a cool one at SeaWorld today). But that's not really applicable to more than a few topics.

[princessvessna]

The only thing I have to say about the article, Princess, is that I agree the new model for publication online is going to be difficult at best to make much money in it.

My biggest complaint, if you (general you not specifically you) haven't already read my blog post is that for examiner, I had to illustrate, write, edit, publish and market for my column and for what? No money? While they rake in the advertising dollars paid to them by their sponsors? Examiner writers are doing ALL the work for the powers that be. We deserve to be paid compensation reflective of all the respective duties required to be an examiner.

I have been unable to see my yearly total since the 20th. I know I passed the first 25 dollar mark and don't know if I will ever see it. I resigned both my columns early this morning.

I can work for myself for free, thank you very much, examiner.

Another issue I had, in particular about an examiner in my workplace channel is that this man, goes around consuming other sites and rewriting them, barely escaping the accusation of plagiarism and many of the writers in the health channel were the same. I wrote original content for my two columns. Their claim that all examiners are writers and experts in their field?? Not bloody likely that all of them are.

I also resented having to come up with titles that were sensationalized in an effort to get more readers. Keywords, while important to SEO can also lead to MIS-leading the content just to be picked up.

I'm not cut out for it. I'm just not. I wish everyone else luck though. You know I love you guys!

I honestly generally am there myself too. I've made a bit more - but that's only because I got some referrals. I found it harder and harder to want to write there since I have other, more lucrative places to write. I was irked that for a while, I saw someone was posting nothing but pasted press releases (nothing added, just the release). I'm still deciding what to do.

[Cassiopeia]

I do not want to discourage anyone here. There are many here who do well with examiner. (well being a relative term) as they have really good channel assignments.

I'm just really disenchanted with the whole model itself. I am going to buckle down and learn how to craft a well written query letter and start submitting to more traditional methods for freelance work.

[stldenise]

I can't remember if this advice came from my channel manager at Examiner, or an editor at Suite 101, but she said that you don't need to stuff in tons of keywords. Just get a few in there for the seach engine to pick up.

Also...if you didn't get paid today, did you make the $25 cut off? I only had $23 from the last month, so I need to wait for June! Poopers. At this rate I'm only going to get paid every other month.

I cut back on the amount of time I'm putting into this, but I still find it very fun. It's a little annoying that I seem to get the same number of hits if I'm trying or not. It's like I've hit a wall.

I haven't a clue about proper SEO/SEV whatever...but when I write something at Examiner I do try to make the title very plainly about what I'm saying, and get right to the point in the first line. That doesn't bother me, I'm more into reporting. After the first paragraph I generally let loose with a more causal first person style.

On a happy note, I got my free Examiner business cards today. I put in a order for them in Feb/March, but I didn't know if they accepted it or not.

[Cassiopeia]

It's a little annoying that I seem to get the same number of hits if I'm trying or not. It's like I've hit a wall.

Yeah, see...I noticed there's a trend here. I was going over 100 hits a day and then bam...not much..then I hear the reporting function went haywire. Well that means we didn't those clicks. How did they plan to make that up to us? Then, I notice that after I hit the 25 mark before the deadline this week, now I can't read the yearly totals..it freaks out.

It's just shoddy business.

I got my cards too, three days ago. Oh well.

[stldenise]

Princess:
Is it possible to reuse what you write at other places for Examiner? Sort of a two birds, one stone sorta thing? Or at least, do the heavy lifting for a better paying gig, then put reuse your research.
Just an idea.

[Cassiopeia]

Princess:
Is it possible to reuse what you write at other places for Examiner? Sort of a two birds, one stone sorta thing? Or at least, do the heavy lifting for a better paying gig, then put reuse your research.
Just an idea.
We retained our first rights to our content. So I believe yes, that we can.

[Health_Geek]

How do you divide up larger articles?

I did an interview for and article I'm writing and it's 750 words so I know it needs to be broken up. But I can't decide if I should post both articles at the same time, or do it over two days.

Any suggestions are very appreciated :D Thank you!

[Cassiopeia]

How do you divide up larger articles?

I did an interview for and article I'm writing and it's 750 words so I know it needs to be broken up. But I can't decide if I should post both articles at the same time, or do it over two days.

Any suggestions are very appreciated :D Thank you!Do it over a two day period. I've found if you post more than once in a day, you lose clicks on the earlier posting.

Find a good place to break it up and simply say...more to come..or something to that effect.

[Health_Geek]

Do it over a two day period. I've found if you post more than once in a day, you lose clicks on the earlier posting.

Find a good place to break it up and simply say...more to come..or something to that effect.

Thank you very much! Two days it is :)

[inkkognito]

You can retain the clicks (and even double them) by doing the following:

1) Break the article up into two parts.

2) End part one with "click here to read part two of this article."

3) Upload the articles in opposite order so part one will show in the most recent articles list. This also allows you to quickly add the link to part two before you publish part one, since you won't know the link till its live.

It's late...I hope I'm explaining that correctly. I've had really good luck doing it that way.

[herdon]

I never break up a 2 page article over multiple days.

I post Page 2 first then Page 1 so page 1 is what is showing up on the channel list. I put a link to Page 2 at the end of Page 1 in a bigger font than the regular text, and I put a link at the beginning of Page 2 in italics that says: (Continued from Page 1)

I had an article with an 80% click through rate using this method so it works. Of course, not everyone will always be interested in page 2, so click through rates will vary.

[Health_Geek]

Those are very good ideas, Inkcognito and Herdon. I will give them a try and let you know how it goes! Thank you :D

[stldenise]

I don't see the need to delay posting over days...the Examiner people were even telling us that mulitple posts a day were a great way to get more hits.

I've tied articles together before, but not really as a Part 1, Part 2 thing. For example - mine was a review of Grant's Farm opening day (a family attraction here). I split the topics into separate posts: one covered new features, one talked about changes from last year, one was a Tips article for new visitors. They each stand alone, but a reader might want to see them all. So I tied them together with the info box the end: read about blah blah blah here. (Curious? http://www.examiner.com/x-3599-St-Louis-Motherhood-Examiner~y2009m4d16-Grants-Farm-opens-with-new-features-elephant-barn-and-new-carousel)

My other tip: the datestamp! Did you guys know you could update the date stamp when you edit and save your post? There's a little check box under the article, to the right of the save buttons. You won't see it with a new post, but when you go back into edit a post, it's there.

That way, if you feel like writing part one first and posting it, you can. When you get around to part two, if you'd still like part one to be first, update it! (Did that make sense?)

I've used this feature to update an old post when I'm feeling lazy. I've only done it once so far, but I can see doing it again. I took a post I wrote in the spring, updated it for summer and hit the update post button.

[herdon]

My other tip: the datestamp! Did you guys know you could update the date stamp when you edit and save your post? There's a little check box under the article, to the right of the save buttons. You won't see it with a new post, but when you go back into edit a post, it's there.

That way, if you feel like writing part one first and posting it, you can. When you get around to part two, if you'd still like part one to be first, update it! (Did that make sense?)


They've said before that they'd rather not anyone do that and it is also a quick way to rub other Examiners the wrong way.

The page views you pick up from being on the latest articles list for your channel are too minimal to really care about anyway. As far as traffic goes, the main thing is to write with some SEO and/or social media promotion (posting it on Digg and similar sites.)

Another great way to secure extra page views is exactly what Denise was saying -- write two articles on the same topic with different takes on it and then link them together. In fact, if you can write 3-4 articles on the same topic, you can interlink all of them and create a small hub of content.

While Examiner.com's website is really set up pretty bad for multiple page views per visitor (they really need to hire someone with expertise in content portals), linking multiple articles together that are all on the same subject is a tried and true method of raising overall page views.

On About.com, I recently had an article drop from the top 3 in Google to around 6-7 which amounted to it losing 500 page views per day. However, I actually lost around 1500 page views per day because, on average, a person clicked on two other articles after hitting that page. (Luckily, the article looks like it has moved back up a few spots in Google.)

[Lisamer]

I honestly generally am there myself too. I've made a bit more - but that's only because I got some referrals. I found it harder and harder to want to write there since I have other, more lucrative places to write. I was irked that for a while, I saw someone was posting nothing but pasted press releases (nothing added, just the release). I'm still deciding what to do.

I think they are going a bit overboard in their hiring. I started out as the Denver Skiing Examiner. Then, they asked if I wanted to be the Denver Skiing Lifestyle Examiner. I said fine. However, now there's a Denver Skiing and Lifestyle Examiner, A Denver Skiing Examiner, A Denver Snow Reports Examiner, A Denver Ski Resorts Examiner, A Denver Snowboard Examiner and a Denver Woman's Snowboard Examiner. It gets to be a bit much, and it really cuts into your page views and potential income.

[stldenise]

Yep, I was wondering if my page views have gone down because more people have come into my town's parenting channel.

But...a new person who's doing "homeschooling", which technically puts her in the Education channel, emailed me, saying how I had already covered a bunch of stuff she was thinking about and asked if I had any pointers. I told her to go ahead and write everything from her perspective then give me a link, and I'd link to her stuff. I don't know if it's helping anything, but we've interlinked a few articles already. I think relationships like that might help with Examiner - we're both in the same town, writing about the same stuff, but from different perspectives. I bet a bunch of us could do something similar!

Oh, and I totally caved to the whole SEO thing. My last two posts were ripped from the headlines, and so far I've tripled my usual page views. Since this seems to be working, I'm seeing it as a challenge to see how many hot news items I can slant into my topic! So far I wrote about Green Day and the field trip to the White House that got snubbed.

[nancy sv]

Is there any way to see where traffic is coming from or which articles they are looking at? My page views jumped up about 5-fold three days ago and are still high, and I would like to know which article is bringing them in and from where.

[herdon]

Oh, and I totally caved to the whole SEO thing. My last two posts were ripped from the headlines, and so far I've tripled my usual page views. Since this seems to be working, I'm seeing it as a challenge to see how many hot news items I can slant into my topic! So far I wrote about Green Day and the field trip to the White House that got snubbed.

That isn't SEO. That is trend chasing, which can bring in some short term page views though some people frown upon it. Personally, I don't see anything overtly wrong in it, though I don't personally pay much attention to it myself.

SEO is about optimizing for search engines. It doesn't have anything to do with specific content.

[inkkognito]

They've said before that they'd rather not anyone do that and it is also a quick way to rub other Examiners the wrong way.
I second that. NOT a good thing to do.

Nancy, ask your channel manager. They should be able to tell you if the article got picked up somewhere or give you some idea of where the extra traffic is coming from.

[herdon]

Is there any way to see where traffic is coming from or which articles they are looking at? My page views jumped up about 5-fold three days ago and are still high, and I would like to know which article is bringing them in and from where.

No, their metrics completely suck. You can ask your channel editor and they might be able to tell where a jump in page views came from, but there's no real metrics with Examiner.com. It's about as aweful as I've seen in that department.

They've been talking about building reports that show more detailed information for about 4-6 months now. It's always just around the corner.

[Robin29]

Woo Hoo, we just made our first dollar as Charlotte College Examiner!

http://www.examiner.com/x-10030-Charlotte-Colleges-Examiner

Unfortunately, it appears I cannot use the link thingy properly:(

[stldenise]

Ugh. Look, I just wanted to point out the datestamp thingy, since people were talking about going to the trouble posting things backwards. I tend to write online - not through Word, since the formatting getting tangled up sometimes.

I wouldn't suggest someone just keeps updating the same old post over and over. That's boring. Sorry if I sounded like I was into cheating!

Anyway... sounds like I'm still clueless as for "SEO". Does anyone have a good website to share that gives pointers on how to make the search engines find you? Whenever I search for SEO help, I find things that look like scammmers wanting to sell me something.

"Trendchasing" as Herdon put it seems to be working for me - at the moment! Granted, I do parenting stuff, and that's easy to find related news issues. I got 257 hits on Saturday, and I've NEVER broken the 200 mark before! I'm hooked. Heck, I'm ranked #2 this morning, underneath the St. Louis Gun guy, who's always king of the hill at our city.

Ok, enough online time for me! Time to get out an enjoy the weather while it lasts! Thunderstorms are in the forecast. Everyone have a great Memorial Day weekend!

[herdon]

The basics of SEO are relatively easy. It's a three step process:

1) Pick out a keyword phrase
2) Use that phrase in your title, preferably at the beginning
3) Use that phrase in your first paragraph.

If you can work it in elsewhere in the article, that's great so long as it reads smoothly.

To pick out a keyword phrase you should think in terms of what people search on in Google. You can also use tools like this one at Google:

https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal

It will tell you how many times people are searching for particular keyword phrases. You can also sometimes get hints from google searches. Like searching for "fantasy books" will give you some searches related to fantasy books at the bottom of the page.

It's good to narrow down the keyword phrase when you can. "fantasy books" has a lot of competition so using "urban fantasy books" can be better.

Picking out a solid keyword phrase is probably the hardest part.

[SouthernFriedJulie]

Anyway... sounds like I'm still clueless as for "SEO". Does anyone have a good website to share that gives pointers on how to make the search engines find you? Whenever I search for SEO help, I find things that look like scammmers wanting to sell me something.



This is why I'm working on the little something Catmuse suggested. I hate scammers that sell crap info on how to rank.

[herdon]

Here's a good link to some basic tips:

http://webdesign.about.com/od/seo/a/seo_content.htm

[mariad]

I don't think there's anything wrong with trend chasing. I did that with my reality tv blog, and a lot of those people who were looking for gossip on one particular person ended up staying with me and are now dedicated commenters/readers. You just have to stay on top of it.

[Health_Geek]

Thank you to everyone who replied to my questions about posting articles in a series. You guys rock!!!

Denise, I liked the template you used on the article you linked here, and I'm going to change my once a month cooking series to that template once I get this last article posted (I'm still waiting on the person I interviewed to look at it and give me their OK before I post). That's a great template for a series, and I'm definitely going to use it again :)

As far as tracking where your page views are coming from, somebody in Suite 101 who also writes for Examiner posted in the S101 forum that you can get a sitemeter account and put a code in every article you post (they have codes that you can use to make the sitemeter tracker invisible). She said she uses that as a way to keep track of everything, like what people are searching for to get there, their IP locations, and where they click out, etc. I have no idea if there are any rules against this, but if it's all right with Examiner I'd give it a try.

[Thrillride]

Thank you to everyone who replied to my questions about posting articles in a series. You guys rock!!!

Denise, I liked the template you used on the article you linked here, and I'm going to change my once a month cooking series to that template once I get this last article posted (I'm still waiting on the person I interviewed to look at it and give me their OK before I post). That's a great template for a series, and I'm definitely going to use it again :)

As far as tracking where your page views are coming from, somebody in Suite 101 who also writes for Examiner posted in the S101 forum that you can get a sitemeter account and put a code in every article you post (they have codes that you can use to make the sitemeter tracker invisible). She said she uses that as a way to keep track of everything, like what people are searching for to get there, their IP locations, and where they click out, etc. I have no idea if there are any rules against this, but if it's all right with Examiner I'd give it a try.

Let me know if this is cool, okay? Because I'd love to try this.
Thanks!

[stldenise]

So how's everyone's numbers doing this month? Mine are still up (relatively speaking) and now I just saw that I'm #3 for the month in my town. Which is a little sad, seeing that I only have $21 bucks worth of page views. I'm hoping that readers are finding me more, and that this isn't still a spike from the Green Day article!

Oh well, off to the gym before "blogger butt" catches up to me! I have 3 days left before school is out and I have to shift gears! Anybody else having an issue with school age kids coming back home full time? I'm not sure if I can keep up the gym over the summer, since my 10 year old can't come too. He's too big for the child care room and too little to work out or swim on his own. Guess I can leave him here with the computer...but it seems silly to work out while my son turns his brains to mush!

And then we'll have to work out a computer sharing system, so I can keep up the freelancing and keep us busy over the summer. Ack!

[Health_Geek]

Congrats on the ranking, Denise! I am just a few weeks into this, but I notice a huge fluctuation between the days I post and the days I don't. So far my biggest day has been $1.07, and I've just broken $7.00 over two weeks. Which is about a dollar per article. I'm working on several articles right now that I'm going to post between Examiner and Suite, all in the same general topic area. I'll let you all know how that does, as I'm hoping to have something every day.

This weekend I'm going to write up some Examiner survival guides for what to do with kids over the summer (yes, I'm having the same issue!) that are related to health and stress, and then write updates over the summer. Can you play tennis with him, or find another sport you can do together at the gym or park? My son and I are in Tae Kwon Do, and it's a blast. He especially loves the times we get to spar together--paybacks ;) You might be able to find other parents to meet at the same time, the parents exercising at the park (you can do things like yoga, running, tennis, etc.,) while the kids go nuts on the monkey bars.

[Health_Geek]

Let me know if this is cool, okay? Because I'd love to try this.
Thanks!

I think I'm just going to email my channel manager and get his blessing. But I can tell you there are a lot of people already doing it. Oh, and the person who wrote about it said that she use StatCounter, not SiteMeter (they all sound alike after awhile!), if that helps :) As soon as I hear back from my CM, I'll let you know!

[stldenise]

This weekend I'm going to write up some Examiner survival guides for what to do with kids over the summer (yes, I'm having the same issue!) that are related to health and stress, and then write updates over the summer. Can you play tennis with him, or find another sport you can do together at the gym or park? My son and I are in Tae Kwon Do, and it's a blast. He especially loves the times we get to spar together--paybacks ;) You might be able to find other parents to meet at the same time, the parents exercising at the park (you can do things like yoga, running, tennis, etc.,) while the kids go nuts on the monkey bars.

Oooo, I smell a cross link! Let me know when you post that, we can link something up. I just posted a St. Louis Staycation idea - to make a list of all the things you want to do this summer and turn it into a summer passport. It can just be a reminder of the places the kids want to go, or you can do it up nice and make it a summer keepsake.

Speaking of which, staycation seems to be a big buzz word going around! (For all those trend chasers out there...)

[Health_Geek]

Oooo, I smell a cross link! Let me know when you post that, we can link something up. I just posted a St. Louis Staycation idea - to make a list of all the things you want to do this summer and turn it into a summer passport. It can just be a reminder of the places the kids want to go, or you can do it up nice and make it a summer keepsake.

Speaking of which, staycation seems to be a big buzz word going around! (For all those trend chasers out there...)

I love your passport idea! How much fun would that be? Let's definitely do some cross-linking! Staycation is a great buzz word, and I have been trying to think up some in my area that will promote health and help stress levels. I don't think I get out nearly enough ;)

[inkkognito]

My numbers have been up for the past couple of weeks, but I think that's because I've used some news tie-ins and have covered a media event. I suspect they'll be back down somewhat in early June.

[Cyfarwydd]

I resigned my Examiner spot recently and was taken out of the site's navigation, but I was surprised to see that my home page/bio/posts were all still active. I asked my former editor when they would be taken down, and was told that while I hold the copyright to that work, Examiner retains the right to use the materials as they did when I was writing for the site.

I can't find anything in my welcome emails to show that Examiner retains the right to use my work even when I quit. Is this right?

[herdon]

I don't recall signing anything with Examiner giving away any of my rights nor do I remember any digital signature with them covering it.

I think they'd be hard-pressed to prove any rights to your work, but they can also be stubborn about removing it. The first step would be emailing someone above your editor like Joshua.

I know they've always been pretty cool when I've talked to them, so I wouldn't be surprised if emailing someone further up got the job done.

[herdon]

On a side note, if you are thinking about resigning and want to keep some of your work, one thing you could think about is simply deleting your work before sending in the resignation email. This might be an especially good tactic if it turns out Examiner is stubborn removing Cyfarwydd's work.

[Cyfarwydd]

Thanks, Herdon. I just read a copy of the Examiner Independent Contractor agreement, and it looks like they can use my work indefinitely. Guess I need to pay more attention to the fine print from now on.

[stldenise]

Gee, I sorry to see people giving up on this. I think its a fun gig - but you do have to look at it as more of a recreational writing than pure profit. That's why I choose a topic I could write in my sleep... I'm going to give it more time.

But for full disclosure, I am more of a hobby writer. I'm not trying to support myself with my freelancing. Not that I wouldn't like to make more money down the road...

[Shadow_Ferret]

Gee, I sorry to see people giving up on this. I think its a fun gig - but you do have to look at it as more of a recreational writing than pure profit. That's why I choose a topic I could write in my sleep... I'm going to give it more time.

But for full disclosure, I am more of a hobby writer. I'm not trying to support myself with my freelancing. Not that I wouldn't like to make more money down the road...

If I wanted to do recreational writing, I'd just do this for my blog. When I started this, I thought it actually PAID.

I don't do charity work, at least not for a company that seems to be doing as well as the examiner is.

[Health_Geek]

Just wanted to give an update on the two part article I asked for advice about above. I broke the article up in half, posting the second page first and then the first page, making links that connect the two. So the first part said "Continued on page two..." with a hyperlink to page two, and the second page started with "...continued from page 1" with a hyperlink to page one. MAJOR rise in PVs! I doubled my daily count (okay, I'm sure that's a big DUH, but it was really exciting to see the numbers!), and I'm definitely going to do it again. Thanks for all of your wonderful ideas!

[Cassiopeia]

If I wanted to do recreational writing, I'd just do this for my blog. When I started this, I thought it actually PAID.

I don't do charity work, at least not for a company that seems to be doing as well as the examiner is.Yes, that's what bothers me. If they are doing so well, then why aren't we seeing our portion? The fact that the reporting function keeps going funny doesn't impress me at all.

Either they are fudging on the amount of clicks or they aren't actually doing all that well.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Yes, that's what bothers me. If they are doing so well, then why aren't we seeing our portion? The fact that the reporting function keeps going funny doesn't impress me at all.

Either they are fudging on the amount of clicks or they aren't actually doing all that well.

What I find interesting, my average (remember my nitch is history) now is much higher than the city average and way much higher than my fellow neighborhoods&culture average and yet, in my mind, I'm hardly getting any clicks. I'm wondering if that "average" page views calculator they have isn't fudging stats to make me feel good about myself or something.

[caseyquinn]

I have decided to let my examiner expirement come to an end. I tried a few different ways to increase my views from posting twice a day for a while to writing more keyword oriented articles to random local news to see if that would help. Nothing really boosted the views. So at the end of the day i would spend 30 minutes (including reading topics, writing, finding image and posting) to maybe make 1 dollar a day from it.

I think i could have written two or three ehow articles in that time and make more money in the long run.

Best of luck to all of you with examiner I just didn;t find in the long run it was a worthwhile stream of income.

[Cassiopeia]

What I find interesting, my average (remember my nitch is history) now is much higher than the city average and way much higher than my fellow neighborhoods&culture average and yet, in my mind, I'm hardly getting any clicks. I'm wondering if that "average" page views calculator they have isn't fudging stats to make me feel good about myself or something.

I'm telling you, it just smells fishy to me. I'm not going to be a part of anything that pays me in that manner. I have no way of knowing my readership as they control the reporting system. And yes, I think it's completely reasonable to be suspicious when the system has gone haywire in both two months that I was writing for them.

I'll just have to do it the traditional way. Well that and get a day job to pay for my writing habit. ;)

[inkkognito]

I'm hanging in there because I'm still doing well. I think this month will be my best or second best so far if my stats maintain for the next couple days (and hopefully they will 'cause I'm covering a Kris Allen/American Idol press event tomorrow so that should boost up the page views).

[stldenise]

I always figured that I was doing better than "average" because the system is full of non-active writers that throw off the numbers.

Casey, I wish you luck with the eHow writing...I tried that last Oct and wrote 16 articles, then got bored when they weren't doing anything. After 7 months, they have finally made over the $10 mark, and I will be seeing a check for them in June. (Unless you're talking DS writing, where you could make more if you can dig up a few good titles.)

I could say more tonight, but I've had a good day and I'm tired of the bitterness. I truly hope that everyone finds a few good gigs that bring them happiness and piles of cash. Which reminds me, I have some real writing to go do that I've been avoiding.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I could say more tonight, but I've had a good day and I'm tired of the bitterness. I truly hope that everyone finds a few good gigs that bring them happiness and piles of cash. Which reminds me, I have some real writing to go do that I've been avoiding.

How is my desire to be paid professionally for professional quality work "bitter?"

My view on this is, if too many writers are willing to work for next to nothing then that is how our work will be valued -- as next to nothing. No wonder its so hard to make a viable living at it.

[princessvessna]

I think it's just that some people are feeling let down about this exciting opportunity that ended up not really paying much, for what they considered "much" anyways. I know for me, it's harder to write (I have a much easier time when I do garden writing, since it's my major and my passion, but overall...), so it's really frustrating when I work hard on something and get jack in return. I'd rather spend my time building up my About site, which for me has far more potential of being lucrative. It's all up to each person, based on what they are making and what they feel they are putting into it/worth.

[Cassiopeia]

This is why I didn't want to say a whole lot at first when I made my decision to stop writing for the examiner. I figured it would sound like I'm bitter. I'm not bitter. This is a business decision. I wasn't seeing the results I wanted and at first that was okay until I started seeing trends in the system to fail in reporting the correct statistics per click. Since my income with them depended upon that system, when it continued to happen, I left.

I don't think its inappropriate to bring these concerns to the discussion table. Especially given that we have no way of seeing or controlling the mechanism used for determining and reporting said income. That's just common sense to be wary of a system set up to take advantage of the hardworking freelancer.

Did they? I don't know. But I do know this: I'm not sticking around to find out. In other words, when I see some real evidence that these online businesses are going to work out, then maybe but I'd rather work for demand studios where the pay is low but at least its certain.

I've never been one to play the stock market. I put my faith in what I can see and touch when it comes to business.

[novelette]

How is my desire to be paid professionally for professional quality work "bitter?"



I'm with Shadow Ferret on this one. When Examiner first started, my city wasn't available. It recently became available, but I wanted to find out what was involved before I applied to become an Examiner. I'm grateful for forums like this because I was able to research and make up my own mind if the opportunity was worth it. I chose to pass.

I also blogged at Today.com when that first started and the pay was $5/100 word post. When they dropped the pay to $1/post, after not giving bloggers enough time to build up a readership, I left.

Writing is my passion but it's also my livelihood. I don't write for free or only for ad revenue. There's nothing wrong with wanting a reasonable amount of pay for your hard efforts.

[inkkognito]

It really has to come down to what is most important to you. Finances are indeed important...my writing income has to make up 1/3 of my salary overall. I'm fortunate to have other, better-paying gigs that offset the lesser amount at Examiner. But I'm doing okay there...at least enough for some gas or groceries. And I love the cool opportunities that come with my topic. For example, this is what I was doing earlier today: http://bit.ly/HyMhx (Kris Allen American Idol media event). I love writing about the theme parks so Examiner is therapy for me as much as it's a gig. I make more $$ at Demand Studios, but I get burned out there too. Then I can pop over to Examiner and write about Mickey Mouse or a roller coaster and re-energize myself.

[HeidiW]

Holy crap, Barb! You're the featured Examiner in the June newsletter AND one of the top 10 referrers for May!

Congrats!!!!

I'd like to start beefing up my Cats role and posting more because it's my passion and I want to establish my expertise and credibility. I'm sticking with it for now. I see they just opened Tucson, will have to figure out when to transfer from Phoenix to Tucson. Hate to lose an audience (which isn't that big for Phx anyway) but eventually it'll make sense.

Heidi

[inkkognito]

Thanks! The funny thing is, I haven't even been actively recruiting new Examiners over the past month so I'm guessing they're previous applicants that are being brought onboard now.

That's a tough decision for you on whether to switch cities. I'm lucky that I was able to start out in Orlando and that we seem to get residual traffic from people looking for theme park information.

[stldenise]

Barb: congrats on the newsletter feature! It was pretty cool opening the newsletter up and seeing a familar face!

[JenNipps]

Holy crap, Barb! You're the featured Examiner in the June newsletter AND one of the top 10 referrers for May!

Congrats!!!!

Most definitely congrats, Barb. That's great!! :D

I'm with Shadow Ferret on this one. When Examiner first started, my city wasn't available. It recently became available, but I wanted to find out what was involved before I applied to become an Examiner. I'm grateful for forums like this because I was able to research and make up my own mind if the opportunity was worth it. I chose to pass.

I also blogged at Today.com when that first started and the pay was $5/100 word post. When they dropped the pay to $1/post, after not giving bloggers enough time to build up a readership, I left.

Writing is my passion but it's also my livelihood. I don't write for free or only for ad revenue. There's nothing wrong with wanting a reasonable amount of pay for your hard efforts.

I got in on Today.com on the $1/post. Then after 2 1/2 months of posting daily, they dropped me, so I dropped them. They didn't want to pay me the money I'd earned, saying I hadn't met the minimum payout, but when I proved that I had indeed met it, they reluctantly paid me.

I don't/won't discourage anyone from trying out sites like Today.com or Examiner, but I do caution them that it might not be everything they're looking for. If they go into it with realistic expectations -- as it seems most people here have -- that's one thing. If they go in all starry-eyed, that's another thing entirely.

[inkkognito]

Yesterday I had a magazine contact me to use one of my Examiner pieces. It's a mag I've worked with before, and they've also bought some things from my blog, but that was pretty cool 'cause it's the first time it's happened for an Examiner article.

[HeidiW]

Yesterday I had a magazine contact me to use one of my Examiner pieces. It's a mag I've worked with before, and they've also bought some things from my blog, but that was pretty cool 'cause it's the first time it's happened for an Examiner article.
That's cool!

I wonder if we should all put a little blurb at the end of each article saying "If you are interested in reprinting this article in your publication, contact..." or some such.

Heidi

[Shadow_Ferret]

I don't/won't discourage anyone from trying out sites like Today.com or Examiner, but I do caution them that it might not be everything they're looking for. If they go into it with realistic expectations -- as it seems most people here have -- that's one thing. If they go in all starry-eyed, that's another thing entirely.

My expectations were they'd pay SOMETHING. I've been at this 2 months and haven't earned anything yet.

[blueobsidian]

On the flip side, I'm averaging better than a dollar per article posted every month, which is exactly the target I look for with rev share sites. I don't spend much time promoting my work, although I do Stumble any recipes I post because they get a good chunk of traffic for just a moment of my time.

I get my paychecks on time every month. With my topic and the amount of time I've put into it, Examiner has actually exceeded my expectations.

[inkkognito]

I tallied mine up for the month, and it comes to $5 per article, i.e. same as the cheapest Demand Studios pieces. Not a fortune, but good enough for articles that are fun to write (and the media event this month was a bonus).

[Shadow_Ferret]

$5 an article would be a fortune compared to what I'm getting and for the average 3 hours work I put in for each.

[inkkognito]

It's hard because your topic isn't mainstream. I just read your latest article, and what I would suggest is breaking it into two or three parts, ending each part with some sort of cliffhanger and "click here to go to part two and find out _____________." You will have to upload them in reverse order and then go back and add the appropriate link, but that might get you some extra clicks.

[Shadow_Ferret]

It's hard because your topic isn't mainstream. I just read your latest article, and what I would suggest is breaking it into two or three parts, ending each part with some sort of cliffhanger and "click here to go to part two and find out _____________." You will have to upload them in reverse order and then go back and add the appropriate link, but that might get you some extra clicks.

Normally I keep them around 500 words. That was clocked in at 600 words. Are you saying that people's attention span is so horrible that you need to break up a 600 word article into several just to keep them from getting bored?

That depresses the hell out of me. I refuse to write to the lowest common denominator.

[Kris]

Normally I keep them around 500 words. That was clocked in at 600 words. Are you saying that people's attention span is so horrible that you need to break up a 600 word article into several just to keep them from getting bored?

That depresses the hell out of me. I refuse to write to the lowest common denominator.

I don't think you need to conclude anything that bleak. I just think page hits are sort of a law unto themselves. People are starting to get it down to a science, and inkkognito seems to have a lot of insight into that.

Lots of humanity still digs in and reads really long, ambitious, serious writing. Really. I'm not sure they read a lot of it on the web though.

[blueobsidian]

Are you saying that people's attention span is so horrible that you need to break up a 600 word article into several just to keep them from getting bored?


Barb didn't say to split it up because people got bored. The suggestion was to split the post so you get more clicks. If people have to click to a second page to finish the article, you get an extra hit. If you are putting that much work into a longer piece, it can double your revenue for it.

[inkkognito]

Barb didn't say to split it up because people got bored. The suggestion was to split the post so you get more clicks. If people have to click to a second page to finish the article, you get an extra hit. If you are putting that much work into a longer piece, it can double your revenue for it.
Exactly!

[KellyLang]

$5 an article would be a fortune compared to what I'm getting and for the average 3 hours work I put in for each.

I have to jump in here to say that if you're putting in 3 hours per posting for Examiner.com, you're not taking advantage of the way the site is supposed to work.

Viewers won't know or care how much time you put into the post, and you can't expect clicks to reflect time spent. If you're spending a long time crafting articles, they are probably better suited to being sold on a site like Constant Content or some place where your hard work will be rewarded.

Examiner.com is and has made no secret about being a per page view site. It pays higher per page view than almost any other site, but it is still paid per page view. It is much better suited to quick articles on a topic that you are comfortable enough with to write quickly and frequently. I do not see Examiner.com ever providing return enough to justify 3 hours of work per post.

A per page view site works best by building up a large collection of shorter articles. It is not well suited to long, intricate posts that you spend hours on. If payment equal to that kind of work is what you are expecting from Examiner.com is what you expected, I feel you are evaluating the site unfairly.

Pay per page view sites work much differently than other article selling sites, and it shouldn't be evaluated in the same category. There is a whole different approach to generating revenue from this kind of site - short, frequent posts.

[veinglory]

I think Examiner was anything but up front about being a content site with an emphasis on volume and keywords. Yes, that is how they pay and they are clearly going to keep signing up providers into five figures. But the selling point was originally high quality local journalism, not short, key word dense click magnets.

[RamJay]

Barb didn't say to split it up because people got bored. The suggestion was to split the post so you get more clicks. If people have to click to a second page to finish the article, you get an extra hit. If you are putting that much work into a longer piece, it can double your revenue for it.

You really shouldn't break up a single story and put it on multiple pages. Especially one that short. Unfortunately, the reader's attention span might be that short and readers don't want to have to work for their information. Crosslink like mad to other stuff. If the story can be broken up into shorter pieces to make separate stories that all crosslink to one another, go for it. Crosslinking helps with SEO and if the reader is hooked and wants to look for more that will help PVs. But it really isn't a great idea to break a single story into multiple pages unless it is really long. Even then you should try and keep stories to one page.

[3bagsful]

hi - just jumping in - I have been following this thread for awhile. I am sad that there is no forum on examiner that is worth a dang. hopefully, when they launch the new "site" they mentioned in the newsletter, we can "talk" over there.

I am a huge newbie. I am not sure how it will work out but I am willing to give it a try. I will be back soon to check in from time to time. and INK - I am in st. augustine and am a huge WDW lover -- my parents live 20 minutes from the park and have yearly passes -- I collect pins too -- I am a fan of your column!

Stephanie

[3bagsful]

oh - and I was wondering about the statcounter feature

does your friend put the code in every article? just wondering

[inkkognito]

You really shouldn't break up a single story and put it on multiple pages. Especially one that short. Unfortunately, the reader's attention span might be that short and readers don't want to have to work for their information.
My results with multi-part stories posted at the same time and linked as part one, part two, etc. indicate that people will indeed continue to read. Just make the content compelling enough to get them to click. I'm firmly lodged in the top 5 for both Orlando and Travel, so this is working well for me. I don't do it every time, of course, just when a piece lends itself to multiple parts.

[blueobsidian]

oh - and I was wondering about the statcounter feature

does your friend put the code in every article? just wondering

Yes she does. I haven't started using it, but probably will in the future. It's a great way to get detailed stats on each article.

[veinglory]

There were 5000 examiners, now 8000. That must be dozens added per day?

[Shadow_Ferret]

Viewers won't know or care how much time you put into the post, and you can't expect clicks to reflect time spent.
I know and care.

If you're spending a long time crafting articles, they are probably better suited to being sold on a site like Constant Content or some place where your hard work will be rewarded.
Never heard of constant content. Do they actually pay professionally?

Examiner.com is and has made no secret about being a per page view site.
It might not be a secret, but it isn't obvious until after you're involved with them. When you're signing up it says, extend your reach to millions of readers... and earn money generated by your ideas. No where that I saw when I joined did it say "earn a penny a click."


A per page view site works best by building up a large collection of shorter articles. It is not well suited to long, intricate posts that you spend hours on. If payment equal to that kind of work is what you are expecting from Examiner.com is what you expected, I feel you are evaluating the site unfairly. I don't write long, intricate posts, they average 500 words. Factor out the research time, it still takes me an hour or so just think up the angle of the story, the story direction, and such. Maybe I'm too much of a stickler for details for this sort of assignment.

[Inspiewriter]

You really shouldn't break up a single story and put it on multiple pages. Especially one that short. Unfortunately, the reader's attention span might be that short and readers don't want to have to work for their information. Crosslink like mad to other stuff. If the story can be broken up into shorter pieces to make separate stories that all crosslink to one another, go for it. Crosslinking helps with SEO and if the reader is hooked and wants to look for more that will help PVs. But it really isn't a great idea to break a single story into multiple pages unless it is really long. Even then you should try and keep stories to one page.


Before I left, my channel manager suggested I do just that. Break what I thought was a short interview into more than article, just to increase page views.

[RamJay]

Before I left, my channel manager suggested I do just that. Break what I thought was a short interview into more than article, just to increase page views.

There's a difference between making one story two individual stories and breaking a single story into a bunch of pages. If the content can be two separate stories, by all means do that. Then you have twice the chance to gain PVs and you've added twice the content. But breaking one story into a lot of pages can lose the average reader who probably is too lazy to click on.

Something I am not clear about with Examiner -- do they pay by overall PVs or PVs per story? Because if it's PVs per story I don't see how breaking it into multiple pages helps. Wouldn't it still be the same story just on a different page? Or would they count that as two clicks even if it is for the same story? Anyway, crosslinking is still the more powerful tool because in theory you can keep the interested reader going from page to page of different but related material and it helps strengthen SEO.

[blueobsidian]

With Examiner the only way to use multiple pages is by uploading them as separate "stories" or whatever term you would like to use. You post each one as a separate article and at the bottom create a link that says "Click here for Part 2" or whatever.

I'm not sure why you think that you wouldn't get a PV for clicking to the second part of the article. It's a second view.

[herdon]

It's pretty standard for web articles to be broken into multiple pages. I wouldn't suggest doing it to garner extra page views, but if you have a rather long article, definitely break it into multiple pages.

[RamJay]

With Examiner the only way to use multiple pages is by uploading them as separate "stories" or whatever term you would like to use. You post each one as a separate article and at the bottom create a link that says "Click here for Part 2" or whatever.

I'm not sure why you think that you wouldn't get a PV for clicking to the second part of the article. It's a second view.

That's part of what I am asking. If with Examiner you have to publish a second story to break a story up anyway then you might as well make them two separate stories. So of course those are two page views if the second story is clicked, it's a different story. It's a moot point to find that out, but all I am saying is if it was simply one story broken into a second page with code or within an article template don't be too quick to think the powers that be would count that as a second PV on one story. For the overall site, sure, but for the same story probably not.

And Herdon is correct, it is common practice to break up stories on the Web. Just not for 500 words or less, which was mentioned here.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Anyone else having examiner publisher tool problems? The last week when I use Chrome only half the article shows in the publication window. When I went to IE, I had other issues with the graphics. Right now Firefox seems to be the only one not giving me grief.

[inkkognito]

It was whacking out bad over the weekend but seems to be behaving today. Clear out your cache and see if that helps.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Wow. Today was my biggest money day EVAH! 68 whole cents. I had 42 cents before I even posted today's article. I wish their tracker showed you which article people were visiting. I doubt it was yesterday's Free Monday's article, it only applies to people in Wisconsin.

[inkkognito]

Do you post your links anywhere? If so, create the link with http://www.bit.ly/ and you can track the clicks.

[stldenise]

Don't knock local stories Shadow - most of my stuff is covering kid friendly attractions in St. Louis, and I'm averaging 150 clicks right now. It really spiked lately (225 today) but I think its because one of the national gals gave me a link about a playground finder I dug up. Either that, or I'm finally catching on to how this works.

About the length of posts: how long an article should be is purely relative. I write briefs for a boy's magazine: a whopping 150 words, but at a buck a word. It's like writing a freakin' hikau. The Post-Dispatch pays me $50 to cover school board meetings and they never want more than 3 paragraphs, so I figure I write less than 200 words there.

I guess I'm wired for short, intense writing. When somebody here mentioned that Google will only find you if your post is 250 words, I had to make sure I was writing LONG enough! (By the way, is that true about the 250 words?)

[princessvessna]

Don't knock local stories Shadow - most of my stuff is covering kid friendly attractions in St. Louis, and I'm averaging 150 clicks right now. It really spiked lately (225 today) but I think its because one of the national gals gave me a link about a playground finder I dug up. Either that, or I'm finally catching on to how this works.

About the length of posts: how long an article should be is purely relative. I write briefs for a boy's magazine: a whopping 150 words, but at a buck a word. It's like writing a freakin' hikau. The Post-Dispatch pays me $50 to cover school board meetings and they never want more than 3 paragraphs, so I figure I write less than 200 words there.

I guess I'm wired for short, intense writing. When somebody here mentioned that Google will only find you if your post is 250 words, I had to make sure I was writing LONG enough! (By the way, is that true about the 250 words?)

I'm not sure about the whole 250 word thing. I know my blog posts for About aren't usually quite that long, but they still end up in Google just fine.

[TemlynWriting]

When somebody here mentioned that Google will only find you if your post is 250 words, I had to make sure I was writing LONG enough! (By the way, is that true about the 250 words?)

I believe that was I who said that.

Here's my quote from the other thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3550292&postcount=1177):


Yeah, I am a little bit. I just got an email from Examiner that I need to post longer pieces and always use a picture. I guess from their POV I'm trying to "game the system" by posting really short pieces that don't take much time to do in between longer pieces. Shame on me trying to keep my earnings above fifty cents a year.

RE: longer pieces and use of pictures:

"Always" is a strong word for them to use, since the preferences seem to be inconsistent among different channels or something.

My assistant channel editor told me that, though pictures are "highly recommended," it's "no big deal" if you can't find one.

Her exact words:

"We highly recommend that you use a photo with your articles. If you can’t find a photo, it’s no big deal. We just highly recommend it."

The new main channel editor just sent out a newsletter yesterday, and had this to say about word count:

"Article word count: This is fairly new to us but we want to make sure that quality articles are posted. Our minimum word count is 200 words."

I don't think word count was mentioned before, as I didn't see it in any of the official paperwork, like the "DOs and DON'Ts" email. It appears to be a newly established guideline. Of course, I could be wrong and have missed seeing it before, but I would have thought the "DOs and DON'Ts" email would have been the prime spot to mention a required word count, and it's not on there.

On a related note, other blog networks I've worked with also have required around 200+ words. Something about search engines preferring more than 200 words or something. (And I know Examiner isn't considered a blog -- this just seems to be the way with content sites.)

The picture thing, well, meh. Sometimes you can't find a picture related to the event, or you don't have rights to use it. I actually think pages like yours, with a photo on every other post, look nicer -- at least for the front page of your site. It makes the front pages look more like a newspaper.

What's funny is that I've used a photo on every article so far, but one of them doesn't show up on the front page. The photo itself isn't visible until you click on the article. Weird.

EDITED TO ADD:

I just did a search for "word count" on the Epicenter and came up with this (http://epicenter.examiner.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=5513):

How long should my articles be?

As long as they need to be.
The truth is, the vast majority of people don’t read long form online. That’s why successful articles tend to be comprised of multiple, shorter posts, rather than fewer long ones. Brevity is the soul of wit.

If your post is getting too long of a hemline, break it up; use sections with clever headings, bulleted or numbered lists, and imagery wherever you need to. Short paragraphs that are easy reads will be digested by your readers much more readily than long missives, even if the total word counts are identical.So yes, according to the A&E channel editor, they prefer at least 200 words.

What I find amusing is that the Epicenter page I linked to was last edited in early May, after the word count requirement was mentioned, and yet the page is still the same and doesn't mention a specified word count -- yet others like Lara were chastised for not knowing and following the "official" word count? Huh?

As for the Google issue, I'm not sure how true it is. I just know it was an issue when I was blogging at b5media; we were asked to make sure posts were at least 200-250 words. That may have been to deter extremely short posts, too, but I distinctly remember Google being mentioned. It may have something to do with how high Google ranks you; you may end up on search engines even with fewer than 200 words, but perhaps not ranked as highly?

Hope that helps.

[Thrillride]

Anyone else having examiner publisher tool problems? The last week when I use Chrome only half the article shows in the publication window. When I went to IE, I had other issues with the graphics. Right now Firefox seems to be the only one not giving me grief.

I heard that Suite was having problems with Chrome, as well.

[Health_Geek]

Sorry I took so long getting back with this. I've been lacking motivation to write anything besides my fiction WIP lately, and Examiner has been pushed to the back burner.

My channel manager got back to me on StatCounter and said we could use it, but he wasn't sure how accurate it is. From what I've heard it's pretty dang accurate, but others might have different experiences they'd like to share, either with that or other counters. I have only used SiteMeter, and I loved it. But last time I checked, you had to have a paid account to hide the little SiteMeter graphic.

Anyway, you just have to put the code at the bottom of each post and you'll be able to see where your traffic is coming and going, where people come from, etc.

[herdon]

Page view statistics are scrubbed to delete the page views garnered by spiders such as Google's bots scraping the site to put it into the index. Different statistic engines will come up with different results because they won't all agree on which page views are generated from spiders.

If you aren't using the same program, the results won't match completely. But the main reason for using it is finding out where page views are coming from and they'll do the trick in that regard.

I'm too lazy to install one on every article. I'm just doing the bare minimum until they get some real metrics in place. (I was actually receiving the stats broken down by article until a few weeks ago.)

[Health_Geek]

I'm too lazy to install one on every article. I'm just doing the bare minimum until they get some real metrics in place. (I was actually receiving the stats broken down by article until a few weeks ago.)

LOL Yep, that would be me, too ;) I think I will wait until the new site debuts its tracking software to decide if it's worth doing.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Do you post your links anywhere? If so, create the link with http://www.bit.ly/ and you can track the clicks.

...post my links anywhere? I dont' even know what that means.

And I finished yesterday with 107 page views. That's about 3 times my normal rate. If I had those kind of views regularly, I'd be rich!

[blueobsidian]

...post my links anywhere? I dont' even know what that means.

It just means that if you do any promotion of your links, you can track them. Do you post your links on your blog/website/twitter/facebook/AW signature, etc? Then you can track what promotional efforts are worthwhile.

[3bagsful]

hi - just jumping in

I have made a whole 56 cents today. WOOT. but those page views keep climbing so I am not complaining.

I have installed statcounter.com and I HIGHLY recommend it. it can be quite interesting.

1 - I love looking at the map that shows where people are coming from to read my articles. I literally have readers from all over the world. very surreal
2 - It is very interesting to see what link they came from. this is very telling as well. I actually found a site that used my article as THEIR source. It was weird

Also, in my category the TWILIGHT examiner seems to be really raking in the clicks. First, I am completely aware of the obsession over this book/film series, the younger fans that are tech savvy and have the internet on their hip via a phone, etc etc so having high clicks makes alot of sense......

however, I think she can be a "tool" for the rest of us. I have now created a page on Facebook separate from my regular bio page and have the articles automatically dump there with an RSS feed as well as have links put on my twitter page using bit.ly

also, if you go down to the bottom of her articles you will see where she puts "follow me on facebook/twitter"

I completely understand the reactions to having to "game" the system. I have moments of concern about this, but I am learning to get over it. I have a goal to make an additional $100 a month by writing my column (I have a day job that pays the bills 8) ) and I know that I am going to have to do a bit of "marketing" to make this happen.

anyone else have some suggestions?

[Shadow_Ferret]

INteresting, I just realized I'm the top 5 of Milwaukee examiners.

[Agee]

Quick question for those of you who are more experienced with this.
My page count for today is much, much higher than the $ recorded for the day. Is that something that will catch up? I haven't noticed it doing that before.
I also need some tips for getting more people to look at my articles. I am trying to write a mix of local information as well as evergreen articles. I'm wondering how long they take to make their way into search engines? Does that account for much of your traffic? For those of you who are making a decent amount of $ for this (a decent amount would equal whatever you think would be reasonable/hour) how much time are you spending on your guerilla marketing?
Any and all advice is appreciated. I know this is not an especially lucrative gig, and I'm doing it largely to help promote my husband's and my business...but I'm also wanted to use my time on the site in the most efficient way possible.
Any examiner who is doing a fantastic job and whose business model I can study?
Thanks so much -
Adrienne

[blueobsidian]

Quick question for those of you who are more experienced with this.
My page count for today is much, much higher than the $ recorded for the day. Is that something that will catch up? I haven't noticed it doing that before.


That happens to me fairly often, and it always catches up eventually. I notice it the most when I have a rush of PVs (like when I Stumble my articles). After a few hours, the $ catches up.

I don't spend too much time on marketing. I use Twitter to promote all my links, but I have an automatic feed set up through TwitterFeed. It posts the title and a link to every new article within two hours. I also use StumbleUpon. I've been using Stumble for a LONG time and have a huge following of fellow foodies. So I will Stumble my new links and send them to a handful of people. All told, I probably spend no more than 5 minutes promoting my new articles.

I find that cross-linking my older posts has really been helping. I've recieved new comments on old posts that I think were found because I link to them in new articles. I have been creating a stable of basic technique and ingredient articles that I can link within my recipes. The layout with the image on the left is great because it has that "Related Articles" section built right in. Luckily my topic is primarily evergreen, but the concept can be applied to other topics. Make a list of all the "general info" type articles that might help, and link them to all your current event or local articles.

[inkkognito]

When the page click thing happens to me, my pay always catches up by the end of the day.

I don't have much time for social networking so I don't use Twitter, Facebook, or anything like that. For promotion, I sometimes post relevant links on forums I belong to but that's about it. I'm still doing very well with Examiner without doing any of that, so for now it doesn't seem to be worth my while to try.

[stldenise]

Yep, I used to do a tweet with every article, then I stopped...and I don't see any big change. I was leary of doing the twitterfeed, because I didn't want to look like a spammer.
Blue: what's your twitter handle, so I can make sure I've got you followed? I'd like to see what your twitterfeed stuff looks like! Maybe I should try it...
My reporting is about 50 clicks off for the month. I was thinking it had to do with posting a new slideshow? Maybe it was counting the clicks for the show, but not paying at the same rate...
My best days have come when I got picked up and linked by a national Examiner, and a couple times when I got some notice on Twitter.
Agee: Maybe you could email some other Examiner's with similar topics and set up some crosslinking posts? If the Examiner you'd like to talk to doesn't have an email in the bio, ask you Channel Manager to introduce you. I've had decent luck by crosslinking to somebody else first, then dropping them a line telling them what I did. They might be quicker to return the favor that way! I also try to befriend the other Examiner's in my town in similar channels (parenting & education) - a couple of us send emails back and forth, asking questions and helping each other out.

[stldenise]

And just when other's were getting bummed out by Examiner...I decided to pick up a 2nd post! Ok, call me stupid, but it looked fun. I'm going to be the new St. Louis Scrapbook Examiner. If anything, I'm hoping it will drive me to scrapbook more often, so I can take pictures for my posts!

[blueobsidian]

Blue: what's your twitter handle, so I can make sure I've got you followed? I'd like to see what your twitterfeed stuff looks like! Maybe I should try it...


Blueobsidian (http://twitter.com/blueobsidian), same as here. I have my feed set up so that it begins with either Suite101 or Examiner.com, then it lists the title of the article, and then the link.

The way I see it, most of my tweets are about either writing or food, so the links to my Examiner stuff fit right in :) I can't say that I get a ton of clicks from them, but I can typically get at least 5 hits per Suite article I post. I get more @ responses to my Examiner posts, so I feel like I probably can count on 10 to 20 hits per new article.

[princessvessna]

Blueobsidian (http://twitter.com/blueobsidian), same as here. I have my feed set up so that it begins with either Suite101 or Examiner.com, then it lists the title of the article, and then the link.

The way I see it, most of my tweets are about either writing or food, so the links to my Examiner stuff fit right in :) I can't say that I get a ton of clicks from them, but I can typically get at least 5 hits per Suite article I post. I get more @ responses to my Examiner posts, so I feel like I probably can count on 10 to 20 hits per new article.

I'm getting about 30-50 hits at least on any sort of link I post, and it should only go up as I continue to grow my account. Yay for Twitter.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Awesome! In Top Milwaukee Examiners, I've jumped up to #4!

[3bagsful]

just an fyi

Robin Leach and the guy who wrote "men are from mars" are now officially examiners.

this could drive some pr to the site and some interest and name recognition which could lead to more users and more clicks

may not work but at least they are "trying" something

[Thrillride]

And just when other's were getting bummed out by Examiner...I decided to pick up a 2nd post! Ok, call me stupid, but it looked fun. I'm going to be the new St. Louis Scrapbook Examiner. If anything, I'm hoping it will drive me to scrapbook more often, so I can take pictures for my posts!

LOL - I just dropped one of mine! I just decided that I was getting too far out of my "focused expertise" and it was stretching me too far. Decided to just to stick with SF Gardening Examiner.

[TemlynWriting]

just an fyi

Robin Leach and the guy who wrote "men are from mars" are now officially examiners.

this could drive some pr to the site and some interest and name recognition which could lead to more users and more clicks

may not work but at least they are "trying" something

I can't help but wonder how much the real-life celebrity examiners are being paid to write their columns. I doubt they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. (And I'm not being sarcastic. I really do wonder.)

[blueobsidian]

I can't help but wonder how much the real-life celebrity examiners are being paid to write their columns. I doubt they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. (And I'm not being sarcastic. I really do wonder.)

While I'm guessing that it's much more than the rest of us make, I can't help but think that it is of mutual benefit. It may not be out of the goodness of their hearts, but it IS a good way to promote themselves. John Gray in particular always has something new to sell (apparently there is even a Mars-Venus franchise opportunity available). I haven't seen much of him in the media lately, though.

Robin Leach already writes a celebrity blog. Besides that (and a stint hosting The Surreal Life: Fame Games a couple years ago), I'm not sure he's done much lately. He might just be looking to shamelessly try and get himself into the public eye.

Writing about reality television has really made me realize the stupid lengths that former celebrities will go to when trying to reignite their careers.

[Kris]

Writing about reality television has really made me realize the stupid lengths that former celebrities will go to when trying to reignite their careers.

I actually feel sort of bad for those people... the bottom-of-the-list- celebs. Like think about Tori Spelling. She has all the hassles of being famous, but I'll bet she has years where she doesn't clear more than about a hundred grand. She can probably deduct highlights, tanning, and hair extensions as a business expense, but still.

[blueobsidian]

She has all the hassles of being famous, but I'll bet she has years where she doesn't clear more than about a hundred grand.

Not in the last few years -- two bestselling books, three years of a reality series, and the appearances on 90210 have paid her well. Plus, I believe she does make money off the syndication of the original series, which still airs four times a day (and yes, I'm sad that I have all this information in my head). :)

[Kris]

Not in the last few years -- two bestselling books, three years of a reality series, and the appearances on 90210 have paid her well. Plus, I believe she does make money off the syndication of the original series, which still airs four times a day (and yes, I'm sad that I have all this information in my head). :)

Haha! Well, you made me feel better at least. Now I don't have to worry about poor Tori Spelling anymore! :)

[inkkognito]

I can't help but wonder how much the real-life celebrity examiners are being paid to write their columns.
And I'm sure you're using the term 'write their columns' loosely. I imagine it's some assistant banging out the Examiner entries.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I can't help but wonder how much the real-life celebrity examiners are being paid to write their columns. I doubt they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. (And I'm not being sarcastic. I really do wonder.)

I get paid exactly what all the other Examiners get.







:D

[TemlynWriting]

And I'm sure you're using the term 'write their columns' loosely. I imagine it's some assistant banging out the Examiner entries.

Yes -- loosely. (But not sarcastically, honest!)

I should have used the word "participate." I was tired when I posted that.

I get paid exactly what all the other Examiners get.

Hahaha! That was good!

[CoffeeBound]

I see that the PPV rate is higher at Examiner than at Associated Content. Nice!

So I went on the Examiner site to apply and ... I got hit with confusion. Can someone please tell me what the difference is between, say, a National Diets Examiner and a localized Diets Examiner? I went on a couple of local Examiner's home pages and browsed through their topic lists, but didn't see anything to make the topic 'local'. And is there any advantage to becoming a local Examiner instead of a national one?

[stldenise]

The problem is that Examiner has "rules" that they ask people to follow, then don't enforce them. People keep wandering off topic, but I don’t know if Examiner ever does anything other than a nice email reminding you to stick to topic.

Local Examiners should take a topic then tie it into their home town. So, a Hometown Diet Examiner should mention local stores to buy your food, where to buy a book on Mainstreet, did you see that guy on Channel 5 - you know, stuff to make it relevant to your town.

National Examiners should appeal to a nationwide audience, and be accessible to all.

The problem is that a lot of Examiners find that hot button topics get more hints, so they get all caught up writing about popular gossip/trends that pull in the Google hits.
I don’t know if a National spot is any better. It might, since it would appeal to readers from all parts of town. I image a lot of readers find me on Google, then leave when they realize that I'm talking about St. Louis. Hopefully, I'll attract a following from this area, who will come back to read my stuff regularly.

[herdon]

There is no real difference between local and national. It's really more a matter of where your stuff gets promoted on the site, but since the vast majority of page views come through search engines, it really doesn't matter.

They also really don't set up the topics for localized content vs national content except for some obvious topics like sports team examiners. Take games, for example. There are very few cities that need an xbox examiner as there are very few cities with enough local content to fill such a specialized subject. But you'll see this type of niche non-regionalized topic in many different cities.

Basically, I wouldn't worry about it. If you are a local examiner and can provide a localized slant to a story, go for it, but for the most part, just create good articles that people want to read.

[stldenise]

Good point, Herdon. (By the way, is that her-don, or herd-on? I've always wondered.)

My topic is parenting, so it lends itself to a city-niche kind of focus. Also, it's way easier for me to write reviews about places I'm taking the kids anyway!

[herdon]

Good point, Herdon. (By the way, is that her-don, or herd-on? I've always wondered.)


That's a tough one! I'll go with her-don. It's actually a name I randomly typed in for my EQ Bard and never really used for anything else until about a year ago when I started using it as a user name. I wanted to get away from my previous user name which was actually the name of a character in one of my books.

[CoffeeBound]

Thanks for the 411 on national vs. hometown Examiners. I'm leaning toward applying for the local version.

[CoffeeBound]

Glad to see it's her-don and not herd-on. Herd-on sounds like a slogan for wild buffalo partying. Just my 2 cents ... :D

[inkkognito]

Even though I'm technically a local Examiner, I write for a national audience and get national readers. My topic is pretty much geared for national (I'm the Orlando Theme Parks Examiner), but even if you go local I think you can put a national slant on most topics and get a wider range of readers.

When you apply, please consider putting one of us from AW as your referrer if you don't have someone already.

[nancy sv]

About how many page views are you guys getting per day? I recently had a pretty decent spike and am now getting about 150 per day on average. I have no idea how that compares...

[inkkognito]

I get from 300 to 1000 PVs per day. This has been a good month so far, averaging 500-800 per day. My ultimate goal is to reach 1000 PVs per day consistently, but so far that has been elusive.

[Shadow_Ferret]

About how many page views are you guys getting per day? I recently had a pretty decent spike and am now getting about 150 per day on average. I have no idea how that compares...

On my BEST days I get 150 views. I haven't quite figured out what the draw is on those days. Unless I happen to hit on a profile of a historic figure more people are interested in. But generally, I average 1/3 of that daily, so around 50 views. Yesterday I ended with 67 views. After 2-1/2 months of writing, I finally broke the $20 mark and will get paid!

[nancy sv]

Wow Barb! I notice you are almost always number 1 on the travel examiner list - congrats!

Shadow - that's where I was for a long time, but somehow it jumped up recently. I wish I could figure out why...

[inkkognito]

Wow Barb! I notice you are almost always number 1 on the travel examiner list - congrats!
Thanks! I'd love to say that it's due to my superior writing skills, but I suspect my topic (Disney and the other Orlando theme parks) has a lot to do with it. I have a heck of a good time with it though and at least I earn enough to put gas in the car (for now anyway).

[nancy sv]

Of course it's your superior writing skills!! It couldn't be anything else, after all...

[Bworms1980]

Hi,

I'm new here and found AW after doing searches for examiner.com information. I dropped a note to thank Barb because it was her posts that made me decide to sign up. And I'm very happy that I did. I write for a few different content websites, but Examiner.com is doing much better than all of them for me. I've never had such stats before, anywhere except places that pay upfront.

This is how I'm doing right now on Examiner:

12-Jun-09 - 1 Articles - 186 - $1.86
13-Jun-09 - 5 Articles - 3539 - $28.92
14-Jun-09 - 8 Articles - 4,031 - $40.31
15-Jun-09 - 9 Articles - 2969 - $29.69 - As of 5:30pm

Total Views - 10725
Total $$ - $100.78

#5 Top Examiner in Entertainment on June 14.

I was very confused as to why I earned less 1 penny per view on the 13th, but someone said it had to do with a slideshow taking over ads, and I think that they are right because I did create a slideshow that day. This does make me want to not create anymore if its going to lower $$. However, since I write celebrity news on Beyonce, its hard not to create a slideshow now and then.

Long term wise, how is everyone else doing? I try to write 2 to 4 articles daily to build up my examiner page. Once you low that to a few a week, do your stats drop hard? Is anyone making enough to help pay bills?

[TemlynWriting]

Hi,

I'm new here and found AW after doing searches for examiner.com information. I dropped a note to thank Barb because it was her posts that made me decide to sign up. And I'm very happy that I did. I write for a few different content websites, but Examiner.com is doing much better than all of them for me. I've never had such stats before, anywhere except places that pay upfront.

This is how I'm doing right now on Examiner:

12-Jun-09 - 1 Articles - 186 - $1.86
13-Jun-09 - 5 Articles - 3539 - $28.92
14-Jun-09 - 8 Articles - 4,031 - $40.31
15-Jun-09 - 9 Articles - 2969 - $29.69 - As of 5:30pm

Total Views - 10725
Total $$ - $100.78

#5 Top Examiner in Entertainment on June 14.

I was very confused as to why I earned less 1 penny per view on the 13th, but someone said it had to do with a slideshow taking over ads, and I think that they are right because I did create a slideshow that day. This does make me want to not create anymore if its going to lower $$. However, since I write celebrity news on Beyonce, its hard not to create a slideshow now and then.

Long term wise, how is everyone else doing? I try to write 2 to 4 articles daily to build up my examiner page. Once you low that to a few a week, do your stats drop hard? Is anyone making enough to help pay bills?

Wow, I'd say you're doing quite well already, considering you're making an average of $10-$11 per article, with your current 9 articles.

The average Examiner seems to be making more around $1, sometimes $2, per post.

Beyonce is a hot topic!

[Lisamer]

Wow Barb! I notice you are almost always number 1 on the travel examiner list - congrats!

OMG! I just realized that you are one of those Soul Traveler people. You folks are my heroes!

[Bworms1980]

Wow, I'd say you're doing quite well already, considering you're making an average of $10-$11 per article, with your current 9 articles.

The average Examiner seems to be making more around $1, sometimes $2, per post.

Beyonce is a hot topic!

Thanks for the per article breakdown. I love to write but I suck at math. Didn't occur to me to find out the ratio.

Beyonce is indeed a hot topic and I think the fact that Examiner.com shows up in Google News also helps with traffic.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Anyone having any connection issues today? I was in the middle of uploading my story and lost everything and can't log back on.

[3bagsful]

just had to pop in and tell you what happened to me.

I usually get about 50 to 100 hits a day. not much but I truck along

I checked today and I had over 750. I couldn't believe it. After poking around, I figured out that someone had put my link on the Facebook Fringe fan page and it has over 121,000 fans. I was floored. just this one simple thing changed everything.

so..don't give up or think it is not worth all the time and energy. It can literally be very rewarding.

[stldenise]

OMG! I might have to start poking around Facebook more.

I was going to brag on my stats, but the dang reporting feature is down. I had trouble getting a slide show to load the other day too. Hope they get the bugs worked out soon.

Last time I looked, I was getting a tad better than a dollar a day with my stuff. I spiked for a while with 150 type days, but then it settled down. I seem to do better on days I post.

I think anyone who has a topic that's searched a lot - like entertainment or vacation stuff - should get more hits than us locals. Barb is our hero, but she also has a gem of a topic. Not to complain - I love my topic, because it's a no brainer. Whenever I need fodder for Examiner, I just take my kids on a field trip and write about it!

I started a new topic at Examiner, on Scrapbooking, and it will take a little more effort I think. I may not post to that one as often. But then, I just took a scrapbook magazine and flagged all the articles that I can mine for Examiner posts...not steal! Just inspire. And link to.

[herdon]

If I were a local examiner, I would try to combine local-interest topics with national/evergreen topics. You want to build up a base of evergreen articles so you can get a steady flow of page views every day.

Really, one of the toughest parts of trying to turn something like the Examiner into a good source of revenue is trying to figure out what keyword phrases are good. You might have a great article idea and find out that there just isn't anyone searching for it.

Once you start tapping into the good keyword phrases, you are going to find that it not only helps raise your page views, but it helps you come up with ideas for articles.

How do you find them? I wish I had a crystal ball or magical secret! You just have to make some guesses and plug them into a keyword suggestion tool. I find Google's adwords tool the best:

https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal

You can also get suggestions by just doing a google search and it will sometimes give you a related keywords list.

Just remember the basic SEO rules: pick out a keyword phrase, put it in the title and work it into the first paragraph.