Was this fair?-Non-paying SEO Client

[SouthernFriedJulie]

This morning I removed 2 pages of my writing from a non-paying client's site. He has been stalling on the last payment he owes me for 3 weeks.

I did not remove most of the work, only the two pages I was working on during the week he owes me for.

His email to me this morning, before I removed the writing was basically, "I'll pay you when the traffic picks up"

Ok...but that was not our agreement. He also was banned from Google for blackhat tactics his previous SEO person used and for hosting malware on another of his sites- this site I worked on was on the same server, they all got the Google Boot.

So basically I'll never see a dime. I also have written letters for this person, cleaned up his resume, and wrote ads, all on top of the site work.

Am I being fair? I know traffic will never pick up and told him so. I told him this when the ban happened. I'm not worried about working with him again, because he's proved himself to be a liar over and over.

I left:

Descriptions
Keywords
Several articles
A Twitter Account I made and gained followers with
Letters
Resume
And my husband repaired his code for free.


Or am I being childish?

[KTC]

It sounds like you're asking if it okay for you to stop being a doormat for this guy. Ummm...yes. It is okay for you to walk away and take your writing with you. You stayed far longer than I would have. In that short description of the situation you left here...it sounds like you were his doormat. Of course it's okay to flee.

[SouthernFriedJulie]

It sounds like you're asking if it okay for you to stop being a doormat for this guy. Ummm...yes. It is okay for you to walk away and take your writing with you. You stayed far longer than I would have. In that short description of the situation you left here...it sounds like you were his doormat. Of course it's okay to flee.


You summed it up pretty good. Thank you, I was a bit worried that taking what I wrote, a little of it, would be childish. Hubby told me to take everything, but I thought that'd be too much.

[inkkognito]

Hubby told me to take everything, but I thought that'd be too much.
When the bank repos your car, they don't just take the tires.

[veinglory]

What was your contracted rate of pay? Whatever he agreed to pay, he has to pay, up tot he point where you part ways.

[SouthernFriedJulie]

$1000

[herdon]

I'd say it is a choice between (1) deleting the work you weren't paid for or (2) leaving it and taking him to small claims court. The latter probably won't do any good, so I think doing the former is perfectly okay. I certainly wouldn't let him have the content for free.

[speel00]

Personally I think you should delete all of your work you did for him. He agreed to pay you for the total package, and you didn't get paid for the total package-so just delete it all!

[SouthernFriedJulie]

Took all of your advice. Removed it all. He decides to pay up, it's in a file. He doesn't, then he's S.O.L.

He got enough out of me, in addition to the content. I can't take that stuff back, but whatever.

I thought of small claims, but he's in Canada, so would be more cost involved for me than it's worth.

Thanks for the advice!

[Maryn]

I'm arriving late, but what you did is exactly what's right and fair. Don't let this guy guilt-trip you into restoring a damned thing until he's paid in full--and even then, just get the content code to him rather than restoring his site using your own time. That's not in the contract.

Maryn, tough guy

[vrabinec]

WTF? See, this is what scares me every time I even think of answering a freelance writing job ad. I'm guessing that 99% of all these web sites are pipe dreams that will never come to fruition, and I'll waste hours working for someone who'll never pay up. Screw it. I'm sticking to writing shorts and novels and trying to get published. This seals the deal for me.

[KTC]

WTF? See, this is what scares me every time I even think of answering a freelance writing job ad. I'm guessing that 99% of all these web sites are pipe dreams that will never come to fruition, and I'll waste hours working for someone who'll never pay up. Screw it. I'm sticking to writing shorts and novels and trying to get published. This seals the deal for me.

Then don't answer ads. Investigate magazines and query the ones you want to write for. Find newspapers, magazines, websites, advertorial inserts, etc...that you like. Find out what they pay. Query them. You are not going in blind when you do this. Stay well informed.

[TemlynWriting]

It's sometimes a bit more difficult with writing clients, but with my editing clients I usually charge an up-front fee or deposit before I even begin working, and then once I've finished a certain percentage (half, one-third, etc.) I send that portion, and the client sends the next percentage of the fee, and so on.

Earlier on in my freelancing career I got ripped off a couple times, and learned my lesson regarding requiring deposits. I even have a freelance contract where I outline everything.

If a client has a problem with it, I remind them that they can see my samples and my recommendations; they can see proof of who I am. However, I cannot say the same of them, so a deposit is their form of "proof."

As I mentioned above, it can be difficult with writing clients, but I think it's acceptable and possible when you have an ongoing writing client. Individual, one-time articles can be more difficult to handle that way, but I'm sure it's possible.

Getting everything is writing is definitely vital!

[Cassiopeia]

Then don't answer ads. Investigate magazines and query the ones you want to write for. Find newspapers, magazines, websites, advertorial inserts, etc...that you like. Find out what they pay. Query them. You are not going in blind when you do this. Stay well informed.
QFT

KTC makes a very important point here. I for one, plan to follow his advice to the letter.

Thank you, kind sir

[SouthernFriedJulie]

WTF? See, this is what scares me every time I even think of answering a freelance writing job ad. I'm guessing that 99% of all these web sites are pipe dreams that will never come to fruition, and I'll waste hours working for someone who'll never pay up. Screw it. I'm sticking to writing shorts and novels and trying to get published. This seals the deal for me.

I was paid for the majority of the work, just not the last installment. It sucks though, because I was counting on that $250 to pay my phone bill and more to throw in on groceries. 4 kids to feed and you need to put all you can in the cart.

Funny thing...shhh....they cut my phone but for some weird reason my DSL is STILL ON. I don't know why or how, but we did have this weird thing with 2 lines running to our house because of the previous owners. It kept messing with the whole thing...cut on the phone, everything fine...cut on the DSL- POOF, nothing. Verizon finally fixed it. Not sure what they did but, like I said, I have no phone, but here I am, speeding along the 'net.

Anyway...about the gigs.

I don't do SEO full time. It's something I can do very quickly and very well. So when I need quick cash, I'll grab a gig like this. I've had amazing clients, I've had so-so clients, and I've had the total bum.

Same can be said of any job.

Though, thanks to all of these scammers selling crap like- "Have 1,000,000,000,000+ Clicks In The Time It Took You To Read This!!!!!!!"- or "Write Your Customer Into A Trace" (not real ads, but darn close), these clients believe that SEO writers have some magic SEO egg in their rear. All they have to do is lay it on the page and when it hatches, GOOGLE PR1000

Yes, I know that PR doesn't exist. Sadly, these folks don't. You know what this guy actually told me when I said I was going to take this to collections because he did not pay me for my content?

"I don't want to pay for content, I want traffic!"

Yes. Moron. Pay me for the air you used, k?

[Cassiopeia]

So wait, you got paid for all but the last installment and you removed all of the work?

If you got paid 750 out of a 1000 dollars then certainly three-fourths should have been left there?

If I'm not understanding, Julie...please tell me. I just don't think it is legitimate to take away the portion that WAS paid for.

[SouthernFriedJulie]

So wait, you got paid for all but the last installment and you removed all of the work?

If you got paid 750 out of a 1000 dollars then certainly three-fourths should have been left there?

If I'm not understanding, Julie...please tell me. I just don't think it is legitimate to take away the portion that WAS paid for.

From my original post- Extras he's gotten-

A Twitter Account I made and gained followers with
Letters
Resume
And my husband repaired his code for free.


I don't feel bad at all (now). Because of my husband, this guy found out that the adsense on his sites was not his, but the shady guy that built the sites for him. I did far more work than what was agreed on.

The work my husband did for free was more than what I'm owed and he did it just because he was being nice. We both felt sorry for this dude.

[Cassiopeia]

But Julie, how is it fair to remove the things he's already paid for? Okay--look I was in contracting. As a contractor we got paid in installments. At the end of the project it was usually the hardest payment to collect, that last installment. We didn't just go yank off the entire roof when they didn't pay.

Do you see my confusion. It seems to me you've been paid for 3/4's of the work and so that much should remain in his possession. Anything you've uploaded since that last payment would be fair game for you to remove.

That's just how I see it.

[KEllis]

From my original post- Extras he's gotten-

A Twitter Account I made and gained followers with
Letters
Resume
And my husband repaired his code for free.


I don't feel bad at all (now). Because of my husband, this guy found out that the adsense on his sites was not his, but the shady guy that built the sites for him. I did far more work than what was agreed on.

The work my husband did for free was more than what I'm owed and he did it just because he was being nice. We both felt sorry for this dude.

I understand that you did all that extra work for free, but there was never an agreement to pay you for the extras, right? So that point is moot.

I'm not a lawyer but I think that at this point he could sue you for taking back the work that he paid you for. Of course, the chance he sues you is extremely low. But if he paid you for 3/4ths of the agreed upon work, then you really owe him 3/4ths of the work. No matter how fair that seems because of the extras you did.

Anyway, not getting paid is such a hassle. It's only happened to me twice in 10 years. Once, I ended up accepting a lesser amount just because I felt sorry for the guy. The other time the client owed me $2,000 that was supposed to be paid within 30 days. It took 5 months to get the first $1,000 and now I'm waiting on the second $1,000.

-Kori

[SouthernFriedJulie]

Doesn't really matter. I wrote him, sent him the file.

As for payment for the extras, no we never agreed on anything, I was just being nice. Trying to be a good employee.

I've never had a client this, not bad, but weird.

He's given me two different names, calls one his alias, but then can't spell his 'real' name from one message to the next. Started asking if my husband knew how to hack sites. Other weirdness went on. Just glad to be out of it.

-Kori. one of the reasons I sent him the file with all content was to avoid any litigation. Weirdness still- I still have access to the site cpanel, so I might go in an put it back myself.

[SouthernFriedJulie]

But Julie, how is it fair to remove the things he's already paid for? Okay--look I was in contracting. As a contractor we got paid in installments. At the end of the project it was usually the hardest payment to collect, that last installment. We didn't just go yank off the entire roof when they didn't pay.

Do you see my confusion. It seems to me you've been paid for 3/4's of the work and so that much should remain in his possession. Anything you've uploaded since that last payment would be fair game for you to remove.

That's just how I see it.

My ex was a roofer, I've seen him go and start tearing off shingles, but he was a real pri**.

I'm not even keeping the last part. I am just done with it all. Honest, it's more to do with a change I want to make personally. I figure if I just keep doing the 'good' things, my life will get a lot better.

Yeah, turn the other cheek sort of thing.

[CatMuse33]

You may be able to write off the money uncollected on your taxes for the year. I know there's a way to write off "unpaid debts."

At least it's *something*.

Dawn