Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 2

[Michael_T]

Uncle Jim,

I've just finished reading the condense version of your last posts (I must confess it stole away a little bit of my time from writing, but I still got many words of original fiction in).

I've noticed that you use the 3 point plot template in your examples:

1: Get hero up in tree
2: Throw rocks at hero
3: Get hero down

Well about a month ago I heard an interview with John Irving about how he likes to imitate the 19th century authors where they would put the main character in terrible situation and see how they recover, and I've found that I do the same thing, which changes the structure to:

1: Drop boulder on hero
2: Throw rocks on hero as hero tries to recover
3: See if hero can recover

I know this has worked for him, but is this style of plot outdated? (I know John Irving did it, but he's got the genius thing going) I have faith in my genius abilities and I think that it works at least for me, but I'm probably not a genius...

What do you think?

[James D. Macdonald]

What do I think?

If it works for you, use it. There really, honestly, isn't a magic Plot that works for everyone, or for every book, or for every audience in every time.

Think about different approaches. If a metaphor for the process helps you, go you!

[euclid]

The plot of my latest WIP goes like this:

The hero gets into bad trouble
Things go from bad to worse
And worse again
He falls off the wagon
Just when things couldn't get any worse,
They do.
Then the sh*t really hits the fan,
He falls off the wagon again and
All Hell breaks loose
In the last five chapters he manages to scramble back onto that wagon
and extricate himself from all of his predicaments
In time for a happy ending

Works for me :)

[Adagio]

The plot of my latest WIP goes like this:

Then the sh*t really hits the fan,

Works for me :)

And the moral is: stay away from the fan, you never know what might hit it.

Adagio [;)]

Sounds like a page-turner story!

[James D. Macdonald]

I love my fans.

They pay my grocery bills.

[Perle_Rare]

Uncle Jim, I'm sure this has been asked before but I seem to need someone to point me in the right direction.

I believe the greatest stumbling block that keeps me from writing is that I don't know how to plot a story. Over the last year, I wrote 3/4 of a first draft by the seat of my pants with no outline and only a vague idea where I wanted the story to go. I delighted in letting my characters run amok and was amazed at the creative turns the story took. However, I ended up with rambling manuscript that had no cohesive glue and really no reason for existence.

I truly want to write but I don't want to repeat that particular experience. On the other hand, I can't see myself writing a strict outline and filling in character sheets ad nauseam either. So I end up writing nothing.

Are there techniques out there that I could try? Are there plot-related books that anyone on this thread can recommend (given that UJ doesn't read how-to books)? I really need something to kick-start me again.

Thanks!

[Michael_T]

Perle,

What has worked for me was making a plot outline (chapter by chapter) and I start writing. Then if I don't feel like my characters (who have not sheet) want to follow my plot outline, I modify it. By the time I finished my 1st draft I had gone through 5 major revisions and countless ones where I would change some words here and there in the outline.

I would even retroactively change the outline if I wanted. So if Chapter 5 had the mailman die, but I thought of a cool subplot in Chapter 45 that should involve him, I would just insert him into the story as if he didn't die, and then just cross out Chapter 5 on the outline and write, "mailman does not die, Instead goes to Indiana for a week"

That way you arn't bound, but you also have an end goal to go for that should keep your writing more focused.

Hope that helped

[Blue Sky]

Hey Y'all, finished the Apocolypse Door. Barnes and Noble had two copies. It was a fun read! Religious indeed. :) Jim, will you be sharing more Peter Crossman adventures? MM? I'd read 'em.

Just started the Mageworld series, about halfway through the first book. The book's movin' so far. Only work exhaustion kept me from finishing. You know. Wump! You wake up when the book hits the floor. The paperback version shows no wumpwear, fyi. Fun how I found the books. Felt like looking for them and found all but the first within a few weeks, during multiple visits to three used bookstores.

On the way home from a drumming seminar in the Phoenix area, I looked to my right and saw a used bookstore--same outfit. I was tired, but went in, picked up the first in the series--their only book by DD and JM. I share this for fun and because trusting hunches can work in writing too. Does for me.

Would've started reading awhile back, but I was working lots of overtime and immersed in the Dark Tower world. Dark Tower is an incredible work from where I sit. King takes a lot of chances. Most work, some kind of work, some don't, but grow on you. For me anyhoo. Glad he kept at it. King writes his way through a lot of the questions we ask and discuss here and elsewhere on AW.

[euclid]

Is that The Price of the Stars, Blue Sky?

[RJK]

Perle,
I don't know what you write, so this may not help. I write crime suspense. When I start a new novel, I start with a new bad guy. I think of a crime or crimes he'll commit, then I think about the ending. The rest is my protagonist trying to figure out the who, what, when, where, why and how. Of course the bad guy is doing everything he can to stop him, and I throw other roadblocks in, to make it interesting.

My questions:
Do you know your ending? (You don't have to write it, just have an idea what will happen)
Do you know all your who's, whats, whens, wheres, whys and hows?
Are you throwing enough roadblocks at your protagonist?
Are you secondary characters interesting?

[Calliopenjo]

Perle,
I don't know what you write, so this may not help. I write crime suspense. When I start a new novel, I start with a new bad guy. I think of a crime or crimes he'll commit, then I think about the ending. The rest is my protagonist trying to figure out the who, what, when, where, why and how. Of course the bad guy is doing everything he can to stop him, and I throw other roadblocks in, to make it interesting.

My questions:
Do you know your ending? (You don't have to write it, just have an idea what will happen)
Do you know all your who's, whats, whens, wheres, whys and hows?
Are you throwing enough roadblocks at your protagonist?
Are you secondary characters interesting?

I'm not Perle, but I thought I'd answer anywho.
I know my beginning. I know my ending. I muddle in between.
Yes I do.
I try to.
They're interesting enough without overpowering the MC. I hope.

[James D. Macdonald]

I believe the greatest stumbling block that keeps me from writing is that I don't know how to plot a story. Over the last year, I wrote 3/4 of a first draft by the seat of my pants with no outline and only a vague idea where I wanted the story to go. I delighted in letting my characters run amok and was amazed at the creative turns the story took. However, I ended up with rambling manuscript that had no cohesive glue and really no reason for existence.


Take what you have. Read it. Flowchart it. Find the story hidden inside of it.

Sharpen that. Cut the rest. Write more to fill in what's missing. And find what the climax is.

To find the climax: Re-read the opening. What answers the questions your opening asks in a satisfying, yet surprising, way?

No writing is wasted. You've learned one way that doesn't work for you. There are others.

What's your plot?

Here are the basic plots: (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=83815)

Man against man, man against nature, man against himself, and man against God.

The other plots are: "The Brave Little Tailor," "The Man Who Learned Better," and "If This Goes On (or, "What If"). Some say "Reader, I Married Him" is the eighth plot.

Does yours fit one of them?

[Calliopenjo]

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

[James D. Macdonald]

Book Pr0n. (http://www.theoddshots.com/2009/12/my-book-pr0n/)

Oh, baby!

[STKlingaman]

I've been told, by a very reputable and reliable source,
(and have been unable to find anything to dispute
this in reference books) that you should not
use contractions such as 'can't and didn't'
unless they are in dialogue, or being quoted.

Any truth to this?

And lastly, if this has been applied to two finished novels
(not using contractions) should changes be made?

Thanks,
Scott Klingaman

[Albannach]

I've been told, by a very reputable and reliable source,
(and have been unable to find anything to dispute this in
other reference books) that you should not
use contractions such as 'can't and didn't'
unless they are in dialogue, or being quoted.

Any truth to this?

And lastly, if this has been applied to two finished novels
(not using contractions) should changes be made?

Thanks,
Scott Klingaman
Not sure who those reputable and reliable sources are, but it's done all the time. I don't know that there's a rule that you have to use contractions either.

Book Pr0n.

Oh, baby!

I am shocked at the book pr0n appearing on this site. SHOCKED, I tell you. ;)

[James D. Macdonald]

Any truth to this?


No.



And lastly, if this has been applied to two finished novels
(not using contractions) should changes be made?


Did an editor say, "I will buy your book if...."? If not, no.

[Perle_Rare]

The flowchart idea sounds like exactly what I need to salvage my manuscript. Then, a loose outline and hopefully, it will be BIC until "The End".

Thanks everyone! :)

[James D. Macdonald]

Y'all are probably wondering about how much of the market e-books represent.

Here's a partial answer. It's generally considered that among e-books, romance is where it's happening. Now, per Publishers Weekly, we can start assigning some numbers. E-books represent 5.6% of romance novel sales.

That's great. I'll have e-book editions of my works, please: I'm not going to turn my back on 5.6% of my potential readers. But... I'd like the other 94.4% too.

[James D. Macdonald]

So, how am I going to spend my Christmas holidays? By going over the copyedit of Lincoln's Sword.

[Ken Schneider]

Merry Christmas to all. And, a special thanks to UJ for his contributions on this thread.

[Eddyz Aquila]

Uncle Jim, first of all, Merry Christmas! Hope Santa brought you some interesting stuff to read.

I was wondering how did you personally deal with the critics of your own work, especially the harsh ones. Obviously even the very harsh criticism can be useful, but how did you personally manage people who criticised your work?

[James D. Macdonald]

What makes you think that I even read critics of my work, harsh or otherwise?

Critics aren't there for the writers anyway. They're there for the readers. They have their job, I have mine, and theirs has nothing to do with me.

(Just as you should ignore critics, in the same way and at the same time, ignore praise.)

[Eddyz Aquila]

But in this case, what about constructive criticism?

[James D. Macdonald]

But in this case, what about constructive criticism?

Do you mean something that came from a beta reader, that I requested? Or something that came from an editor (and is therefore not unexpected)?

Or do you mean random criticism on Amazon or in a magazine somewhere?

[Eddyz Aquila]

From beta readers and from editors. How do you personally handle the criticism coming from beta readers and editors?

Random criticism on Amazon or in a magazine, best to ignore, I completely agree.

[Michael_T]

Uncle Jim Help!

I just finished the first draft of my first novel. It's been about 15 months in the making and I've barely glanced at any of the work I had written. I really want to do the revisions right and let it sit in my desk drawer...BUT I DON'T WANT TOO :P

Help talk me out of going straight into the revisions, or even writing character bios etc. I really don't want to let this alone now that I have this block of marble...I just want to sculpt...

[James D. Macdonald]

From beta readers and from editors. How do you personally handle the criticism coming from beta readers and editors?


From beta readers, I thank them profusely and sincerely. Then I review the book, remembering that if someone tells me there's a problem they're probably right, but if someone tells me how to fix it they're probably wrong.

From editors, I recall that the comments come in three forms: the ones where I slap my forehead and thank the Power of Publishing that the editor caught it so people will think I'm smarter than I am; the ones that I don't really care about, so I make the changes because that's the guy with the checkbook talking, and the ones that I ignore.

I recall that all of us are on the same team. We're trying to give the readers the best experience that they can have with our book.


Help talk me out of going straight into the revisions, or even writing character bios etc. I really don't want to let this alone now that I have this block of marble...I just want to sculpt...

For the next two months, while this one ages, write a new, different book. One that has nothing to do with the current one. Set in a different time, a different place, with different characters doing different things in pursuit of a different plot with a different climax.

Two months from now you'll have a great start on your next novel, and you'll be ready to approach the editing of the current book with a refreshed eye.

[Mara]

Hey Uncle Jim! :)

I've been under some emotional stress in my non-writing life, and it's causing me to have some concerns about my writing. I know lots of successful writers have had severe stress and emotional problems, so it obviously shouldn't be a problem, but I thought I'd ask.

1) When I write a lot while upset, I worry that I'm going to make my novel veer off in some random direction and mess everything up. Is this an irrational fear?

2) How do you deal with distracting stress and emotional factors? Do you ignore it? Do you work it into your writing?

3) Do you ever decide to set aside your scheduled writing for later if you're having a lot of emotional stuff going on, or do you find that it's best to go ahead and write even if you can't concentrate? Or does experience and having a routine allow you to suddenly ignore that stuff when you need to write?

I know those were very similar questions, and possibly dumb questions, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

[RHQ]

I don't think those are dumb questions Mara. I'm having the exact same questions myself right now. I've been unemployed since July and the depression is starting to hit pretty bad lately with all the dark and cold and hubbub of the holidays. I can't wait for UJ's answer (and answers from anyone else who has found a way to push aside stress and focus on the story).

Happy New Year to all,
Kelly

[James D. Macdonald]

1) When I write a lot while upset, I worry that I'm going to make my novel veer off in some random direction and mess everything up. Is this an irrational fear?

What happens outside of the novel may well affect what's going on inside the novel. E.G.: Doyle and I (and the kids) had horrible flu and chicken pox while we were writing one of the Circle of Magic books. The main character of that novel turned out to have a fever and be hallucinating for most of that book. The time I wrote a Spiderman book in a week, all of the characters wound up drinking a lot of coffee. Coincidence?




2) How do you deal with distracting stress and emotional factors? Do you ignore it? Do you work it into your writing?

Two hours of alone-time with just blank paper can be remarkably soothing.



3) Do you ever decide to set aside your scheduled writing for later if you're having a lot of emotional stuff going on, or do you find that it's best to go ahead and write even if you can't concentrate? Or does experience and having a routine allow you to suddenly ignore that stuff when you need to write?

If you let anything stop you from writing, the simple fact is that you've stopped writing. And ... it may come that the way you resolve the problem when you just don't want to write (and those days will come) in the future will be to seek out emotional upset. Do you want to get into that habit? I'm guessing not.

Concentration is greatly overrated. You're going to rewrite and revise anyway. Just get words on paper.

[Mara]

If you let anything stop you from writing, the simple fact is that you've stopped writing. And ... it may come that the way you resolve the problem when you just don't want to write (and those days will come) in the future will be to seek out emotional upset. Do you want to get into that habit? I'm guessing not.

I usually think I'm pretty insightful about my psychology, but I never thought of that. And you're right. In fact, I wonder if I've already started doing that a bit.

Thanks!

[James D. Macdonald]

If nothing else, being a novelist turned me into a jackleg psychologist.

[FOTSGreg]

Uncle Jim (and everyone else), I hope you had a Merry Christmas and will have a Happy New Year. My New Year's wish is for you to see continued success and for the rest of us to continue following your great advice and to achieve a small measure of the success you have achieved in the coming year(s).

[Scribhneoir]

I've been unemployed since July and the depression is starting to hit pretty bad lately with all the dark and cold and hubbub of the holidays. I can't wait for UJ's answer (and answers from anyone else who has found a way to push aside stress and focus on the story).


I was laid off back at the end of January and only went back to work ten days ago. Writing kept me sane during my eleven month involuntary sabbatical.

Part of what helped me was the knowledge that I was in control of my writing even when I lost control of everything else. Nobody could take my writing away from me. I couldn't do anything about the job market, but I could look upon my suddenly free time as a gift instead of a disaster. I'd never before really had the opportunity to be a stay-at-home writer and I decided to take advantage of it while the economy stabilized. I was fortunate that I was given a generous severance package, so I was able to pay the bills and by living frugally I was able to keep from dipping too deeply into my savings. That kept one level of stress off me.

I created a schedule for my writing that I adhered to just like it was a paying job. Since I like writing in public places and since I live alone and didn't want to turn into a hermit, I packed up my laptop and headed off to my local Taco Bell every afternoon. I took up residence at a corner table near a plug and tapped away at my keyboard while the roar of hungry teenagers surrounded me.

I was able to concentrate fully on my story partly because of the happy noise those hungry teenagers made and partly because being away from home gave me the permission I needed to forget about everything else. The only thing I could do at Taco Bell was write, so there was no need to stress over my job situation. (BTW, I didn't eat at Taco Bell every day. Some days I would, some days I'd just get a drink, and some days I'd bring food from home. I was using them as an office. :))

I was pleased with all that I was accomplishing with my writing and that helped keep up my self-esteem. Intellectually I knew my layoff was not a reflection of my worth, but emotionally it's still hard to take. By focusing on doing something that made me happy, I was able to keep the depression at bay.

I hope this helps. Good luck.:Hug2:

[Adagio]

I was laid off back at the end of January and only went back to work ten days ago. Writing kept me sane during my eleven month involuntary sabbatical.
I hope this helps. Good luck.:Hug2:

Good luck to you, too, and thanks for sharing your experience with us.
May you enjoy a happier new year and as productive in terms of writing as this one. https://mail.google.com/mail/e/982

Adagio

[James D. Macdonald]

So ....

Everyone finish the Christmas Challenge?

How did the readings go?

[Cliff Face]

Uncle Jim, I've been meaning to mention this for about a month (I have a terrible memory - I live too much in the moment) - here in Australia, your name is in virtually every public toilet!

The hand-driers are all made by J D Macdonald. :D

So as creepy as it sounds, I always think of you when my hands are wet and there are people whizzing nearby. :D

[Blue Sky]

Is that The Price of the Stars, Blue Sky?

Sorry for the delay. Yes, The Price of the Stars is the first in the Mageworlds series. The first two books move right along. Thanks DD & JDM. :)

If you let anything stop you from writing, the simple fact is that you've stopped writing.

QFT. I haven't written much the past few months, working lots of overtime with health my first priority. Choices.

[Neversage]

So ....

Everyone finish the Christmas Challenge?

How did the readings go?

I failed. I got too distracted with everything else going on that I didn't set aside enough time. It's in part due to the fact that the story quickly became much bigger than my original plan, which broke one of the rules, but the characters were really miffed at being in such a short, minor event.

Nonetheless, it was a very beneficial exercise even in part.

[James D. Macdonald]

but the characters were really miffed at being in such a short, minor event.So let them play at longer length.

Meanwhile, picked up at Making Light, this: AUDIENCE FOCUS IN HAUNTED ATTRACTIONS (http://www.phantasmechanics.com/focus.html)

Another example of how everything needs to reveal character, advance plot, or support theme.

Anything that doesn't move the story forward holds it back.

[Aidan Watson-Morris]

But what if it's funny, interesting or something that seems irrelevant but may provide an inside joke?

[James D. Macdonald]

But what if it's funny, interesting or something that seems irrelevant but may provide an inside joke?

Suppose a football team, between plays, did comedy sketches?

And suppose they were really funny sketches?

How would the fans feel?

================

Inside jokes are great. I love 'em. I have tons in my books. But if the surface meaning isn't moving the story forward, cut 'em.

[blacbird]

Suppose a football team, between plays, did comedy sketches?

And suppose they were really funny sketches?

How would the fans feel?

I watched the Redskins play this week. Between-play comedy sketches would have been sssssooooooooooooooo better.

caw

[kwilby]

Take what you have. Read it. Flowchart it. Find the story hidden inside of it.

Do you (or anyone else) have advice on writing outlines/flowcharts for complicated plots that involve multiple threads, including some that are not initially visible to the pov characters? Right now I've got a very rough pov outline with off-screen details in character mini-bios, timelines, and random (ouch) word docs. That's a lot of places to look for one piece of information.


How have other folk here managed to sort this stuff out? One big outline with everything stuffed into it? Separate outlines for the major threads? Word and Excel documents interlinked and auto-updating with VB macros? (Tempting for me, but undoubtedly a Madame Tussauds level of cat-waxing.)

[Ken Schneider]

Do you (or anyone else) have advice on writing outlines/flowcharts for complicated plots that involve multiple threads, including some that are not initially visible to the pov characters? Right now I've got a very rough pov outline with off-screen details in character mini-bios, timelines, and random (ouch) word docs. That's a lot of places to look for one piece of information.


How have other folk here managed to sort this stuff out? One big outline with everything stuffed into it? Separate outlines for the major threads? Word and Excel documents interlinked and auto-updating with VB macros? (Tempting for me, but undoubtedly a Madame Tussauds level of cat-waxing.)

I can't say. I wing it. All I have is a story idea, and away I go. The story blooms as I write.

Use your first draft as the outline.

[James D. Macdonald]

Start with a master plan of what's really happening. A Ghod's-eye view. From that you can figure out who knows what and when and why.

[Calliopenjo]

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

:partyguy::partyguy::partyguy::Jump::PartySmil:e2c heer::e2bear:

[Terie]

Do you (or anyone else) have advice on writing outlines/flowcharts for complicated plots that involve multiple threads, including some that are not initially visible to the pov characters? Right now I've got a very rough pov outline with off-screen details in character mini-bios, timelines, and random (ouch) word docs. That's a lot of places to look for one piece of information.


How have other folk here managed to sort this stuff out? One big outline with everything stuffed into it? Separate outlines for the major threads? Word and Excel documents interlinked and auto-updating with VB macros? (Tempting for me, but undoubtedly a Madame Tussauds level of cat-waxing.)

I can't remember which thread I read about it on, so I can't credit the AW member from whom I first learned about it, but I just started using MS OneNote.

It's a great tool for storing research notes and character lists/sketches and maps and reminders and charts and tables, and, well, even the tea kettle and kitchen sink -- all in one window. My manuscript is in a separate Word doc, but everything else is in OneNote.

I'm not generally a huge fan of MS products, but I have to say that this one looks like it's going to be invaluable for me. I think it might work for you, too, based on what you said about your current organisation. Definitely check it out! (If you have Office 2007, it's probably in your bundle; it was added to Office 2003 mid-stream, so if you have Office 2003, you might or might not already have it.)

[FOTSGreg]

Terie, That might have been me down in the Horror Hounds threads, but even I can't claim credit for it - one of the other Houndies mentioned it in the thread and I then took to it like a duck to water (even bought one of the most extensive books there is about it).

It's a great program for doing all sorts of outlining, holding your research, notes, and more. I hope to utilize it extensively in the near future.

In the meantime, might I recommend another program called Dragon Naturally Speaking. I'm having so much fun using this program to transcribe my handwritten notes and writing to the screen as well as to make blog posts and posts here I just can't believe it. It's the answer to the problem I always had of transcribing my notes and random thoughts and whole chapters and books from my ridiculously sloppy handwriting to the computer.

[RHQ]

A couple of months ago I was wishing I had a Mac so I could use Scrivner. I had never heard of OneNote until you mentioned it now. Turns out it's been on my computer all this time! Argh!

Now to put it to use.

Thank you!

Kelly

I can't remember which thread I read about it on, so I can't credit the AW member from whom I first learned about it, but I just started using MS OneNote.

[HConn]

Do you (or anyone else) have advice on writing outlines/flowcharts for complicated plots that involve multiple threads, including some that are not initially visible to the pov characters? Right now I've got a very rough pov outline with off-screen details in character mini-bios, timelines, and random (ouch) word docs. That's a lot of places to look for one piece of information.

I use a single Word document, called a "goof", where I play around with ideas for characters, settings, plot, whatever. It all comes together into a coherent outline after a few dozen pages of fooling around.

For a work that you've already written, you might want to try a version of [names deleted at webmaster's request -- JDM] . When the characters and situations are aligned toward the same goal, they join together into a single arrow, pointing toward one finish line. New information, bad circumstances, whatever cause those lines to split apart, and other characters with contradictory goals will cause arrows to crash into each other.

Complicated stuff, but it works for him.


How have other folk here managed to sort this stuff out? One big outline with everything stuffed into it? Separate outlines for the major threads? Word and Excel documents interlinked and auto-updating with VB macros? (Tempting for me, but undoubtedly a Madame Tussauds level of cat-waxing.)

Charles Stross recommends Tiddlywiki, a small wiki program you can keep on a laptop. I plan to buy it and organize myself Any Day Now.

[Ken Schneider]

Charles Stross recommends Tiddlywiki, a small wiki program you can keep on a laptop. I plan to buy it and organize myself Any Day Now.

Ha!

Just write.

[kwilby]

Thanks for the responses, folks!

I can't say. I wing it. All I have is a story idea, and away I go. The story blooms as I write.

I started like that but this particular story has grown into a bed of nine different varietals, each with their own specific water and soil composition requirements. If I don't have some level of organization, I'll kill one off accidentally before I get to see it bloom. Culling may be necessary in the end, but I'd rather wait until they've all blossomed and I can look at the overall pattern.

Start with a master plan of what's really happening. A Ghod's-eye view. From that you can figure out who knows what and when and why.

My current master plan contains the pov story only, which has been hampering me. I'll write along just fine for a while, then get stuck (why is this event happening? how will folks react?). I've got to go hunt down the answer among my various notes or rely on my memory and possibly forget something important.

My goal for this holiday weekend (since I've got more than one cramped hour to spend on writing) is to come up with a better way of organizing my story planning. I'm expanding the master plan and consolidating the random notes as much as possible.

It's a great tool for storing research notes and character lists/sketches and maps and reminders and charts and tables, and, well, even the tea kettle and kitchen sink -- all in one window. My manuscript is in a separate Word doc, but everything else is in OneNote.

That does sound useful, but unfortunately it's not bundled with my copy of Office 2003 Professional. I'll hunt around for a copy to try and see if it would work for me.

In the meantime, might I recommend another program called Dragon Naturally Speaking.

I've heard of Dragon Naturally Speaking before in the context of voicewriting court reporters. For me, though, I like the process of typing so I hardly ever write longhand any more. I've tried voice recordings during driving (where I do a lot of my plotting), but the additions I made during transcription were far more useful than the verbatim text.

For a work that you've already written, you might want to try a version of [names deleted at webmaster's request -- JDM] .

Oooh, diagrams. I'm a sucker for diagrams. Have you seen any posts that detail what he uses to map the goals out? I'll try this with my current WIP.

[Terie]

That [OneNote] does sound useful, but unfortunately it's not bundled with my copy of Office 2003 Professional. I'll hunt around for a copy to try and see if it would work for me.

You can buy it stand-alone for either 2003 or 2007. I bought OneNote 2007, even tho my Office suite is 2003 and I have no intention of upgrading to 2007. (Me hates Office 2007 with a passion. :D) You can also download trial versions from the MS website, so that gives you a whole month to play around to see if it'll work for you before you invest in it. And if you're a student (or have a student in your household), you can get it at a great discount.

[Linda Adams]

Do you (or anyone else) have advice on writing outlines/flowcharts for complicated plots that involve multiple threads, including some that are not initially visible to the pov characters? Right now I've got a very rough pov outline with off-screen details in character mini-bios, timelines, and random (ouch) word docs. That's a lot of places to look for one piece of information.


How have other folk here managed to sort this stuff out? One big outline with everything stuffed into it? Separate outlines for the major threads? Word and Excel documents interlinked and auto-updating with VB macros? (Tempting for me, but undoubtedly a Madame Tussauds level of cat-waxing.)

I find that I need to keep it as simple as possible. If I start getting elements in too many places, things start slipping through the cracks. I also have to watch out for methods that work for the first draft and then fall up when I start revising.

For characters, I have one character information sheet. The names are listed in alphabetical order by last name, and next to the name, I give a mini-bio with whatever information I've used in the story. The whole thing runs about four pages for some 30 characters. I can just stick it in a notebook, and reference it if I can't remember how to spell a name.

For settings, I did a setting information sheet. Name of each of the locations and where they were. Also printed for quick reference, in case I forget where something is.

For timeline, I did a Gantt chart and just wrote major events for each day (I ended up having to rearrange the timeline to accommodate adding a subplot, and this turned out to be very helpful--it showed me there was way too much on Day 1).

This is another option that might be worth looking at: http://www.diyplanner.com/node/4534 It's an analog work journal, like what developers and inventors would use. The index in the back would make it easy to find things.

[HConn]

Oooh, diagrams. I'm a sucker for diagrams. Have you seen any posts that detail what he uses to map the goals out? I'll try this with my current WIP.

I searched for one when I wrote my previous post, but I couldn't find anything. Sorry.

[FOTSGreg]

Uncle Jim, Hopefully I have not asked this question before though it tugs at the back of my mind that I might have.

Anyway, let's say you have a complex series of maneuvers and operations setting up for a sudden and deadly battle that occurs within, at best, a few minutes. The pre-battle maneuvers can take as long ss a day or more, but are mostly mundane aspects of maneuvering ships into optimum positions, keeping the crews alert, etc.

Then, the battle occurs and it's sudden and exciting.

How would you go about detailing the lead-up to the battle without boring a reader to tears or sounding like a historical narrative?

PS. My science is correct. I've checked it and rechecked it. I've gamed it out on a map of the area. The problem is that it's frikkin' boring to write about how long it takes unit A at X speed to arrive at position Z and open fire. But, because of the genre, it seems to be what's needed for the book.

[James D. Macdonald]

Is there some particular reason the readers need to know how the ships are maneuvered? If not, cut all that.

You've done the math, you've worked it out, so the readers will feel your confidence. The angles behind the scenes all meet nice and square. Don't show the back of the house.

[FOTSGreg]

Uncle Jim, thanks for that. It's basically what I thought I figured I'd ask an expert.

I was looking at Samuel Morrison's The Two OceanWar for little inspiration on writing battle scenes lately, but his version seems a little bit too historical and dry to get the point across in fiction (though some might say Morrison's account is highly fictionalized). I don't really need to see the need to put in the ranging aspects, what shells hit which ship, what caliber, etc., etc. I know David Weber tends to do this and some of his Starfire series, but Mike Flynn is a completely different take on it in his book The January Dancer. I do really like Flynn's method but also like Larry Niven's methodology in his book Protector and that might be a better way to go over all over the technology in my book is a little bit more advanced in space opera-ish but it is in Niven's.

Still, it can't hurt to read the Masters and get a little advice from them, you included, of course.

[Cliff Face]

Well, UJ, I've ordered The Apocalypse Door (they don't stock it in my shop for some reason...) and I asked about any other books you had out that they might be able to get for me.

I was told that all of your books were "out of stock, meaning they're out of print" - her words. But I thought the quickest way to get old books back in print was to release a new one? Can you explain please? I'd love to understand the ins and outs of this industry before I need to make snap decisions about my own career directions.

Thanks.

[James D. Macdonald]

Land of Mist and Snow is still in print. I hope it will be re-solicited this coming summer when Lincoln's Sword comes out. It's been out two years now, and isn't likely to be shelved at this moment. It's from a different publisher than The Apocalypse Door. (http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/ad_excerpt.htm)

The Apocalypse Door isn't part of any series. Please note, too, that The Apocalypse Door is the one and only book written by James D. Macdonald. The others are by Debra Doyle & James D. Macdonald, or by other names.

Nothing is guaranteed. And spending too much time trying to make sense of this business isn't a great use of time. The only thing in your control is the quality of your own work.

[Cliff Face]

Land of Mist and Snow is still in print. I hope it will be re-solicited this coming summer when Lincoln's Sword comes out. It's been out two years now, and isn't likely to be shelved at this moment. It's from a different publisher than The Apocalypse Door.

The Apocalypse Door isn't part of any series.

Nothing is guaranteed. And spending too much time trying to make sense of this business isn't a great use of time. The only thing in your control is the quality of your own work.

Thanks. :) I'll try to refrain from understanding things from now on. ;)

[Blue Sky]

The Apocalypse Door isn't part of any series.

Any chance you'll write another?

On another note, I'm enjoying how the Mageworlds books (now on book five--really busy at the moment) move around. It's fun to see the choices you two made in telling the tale. For me, it's a rockin' good tale so far. Leaves me wanting to know more about the people in that place and time. Glad you went back and filled in the "pre-blanks" with The Gathering Flame.

Was only the first book originally written in serial form back and forth as you mentioned before, or were others as well?

[James D. Macdonald]

Was only the first book originally written in serial form back and forth as you mentioned before, or were others as well?

You mean as a series of letters to our friend in California?

The first book was the only one written that way.

[James D. Macdonald]

Any chance you'll write another?




Not only is there a chance, I've got a contract for it, and the publisher has been very patient.

[lucidzfl]

Not only is there a chance, I've got a contract for it, and the publisher has been very patient.

How many books do you currently have contracts for?

[James D. Macdonald]

How many books do you currently have contracts for?

Counting the one coming out next summer, three.

[lucidzfl]

Counting the one coming out next summer, three.

That is incredibly awesome. Thanks for all the wonderful advice you've dispensed on this website by the way.

[Modog814]

Hey UJ,

Just finished The Apocalypse Door. Great read, I really enjoyed it. Looking forward to the next one.

[Calliopenjo]

Hi Uncle Jim,

There are varying opinions about posting your work publicly, on the internet, for critique.

One theory says, in order to protect your copyright and have a better chance of landing an agent as a first time author, to post your story on a site that's password protected.

There's another theory that says it doesn't matter if a site is password protected or not, what's important is that you're working on your story to make it better. If there's a question, an agent will let you know if there are any problems because you decided to use a public forum that's not password protected vs. one that is.

What's the rule on that?

[James D. Macdonald]

What's the rule on that?

I don't know as there's a rule.

I don't think it's a good idea to post anything other than your best work out where the public can read it, though.

This hasn't stopped me from posting first drafts of stories on-line, or at least first paragraphs or first pages. (I've done it right here in this very thread.) Or even writing a story on line, posting the first-draft pages as I did them. (http://mist-and-snow.livejournal.com/2006/12/06/ et seq.)

If a book is good enough, prior-publication won't be a bar (or The Adventures of Tom Sawyer would be permanently out of print). Individual agents will have their individual preferences.

(Speaking of "protecting your copyright," though, it's darn difficult to lose your copyright, through things your do or things you fail to do. What you're concerned with here is first publication rights, which mostly concerns the size of the advance. Some publishers only want first-time publication (Never before seen!) rights. It's a complex dance.)

[Calliopenjo]

Thanks Uncle Jim. :Hug2:

[Blue Sky]

Not only is there a chance, I've got a contract for it, and the publisher has been very patient.

I look forward to reading it/them! Congrats on the abundance of contracts.

Yesterday I saw that I was not on the final Mageworlds book. I'll keep my eyes open for the seventh book.

Enjoyed the fifth book The Long Hunt a lot. Your advice about moving the story along shines in The Long Hunt. A lot happened in a much shorter novel.

When you guys went to write each book, did choosing the time period and characters come easily? You addressed that in the book six preface, but the others?

Another question. Do the names Entibore and Eraasi hold underlying meaning for you?

[euclid]

I like the grrch trees!

[James D. Macdonald]

Finishing up the copyedit on Lincoln's Sword today.

[pdr]

to the comment about posting work on the internet, UJ. With short stories there are zine and magazine markets which clearly state that work posted on the internet, unless in a password protected, crit group site, 'is deemed to have been published' and is not acceptable.

My editors, and the agents I deal with in the UK and Commonwealth re novels, all say to keep novel extracts off open internet sites until contracts are signed and a marketing plan about posting extracts has been organised.

[James D. Macdonald]

One thing you might do to figure out the prior-publication question is this:

Go to Duotrope.com.

Punch in the stats for your story, and see how many markets there are.

Then try the same search using the "reprints okay" click-box.

Subtract number b from number a to see what kind of difference posting on-line would make.

The stories I have posted on my web page were all previously published, and so would be reprints in any case.

[eqb]

Finishing up the copyedit on Lincoln's Sword today.

I get my first set of novel copyedits next week.

[James D. Macdonald]

I get my first set of novel copyedits next week.

Enjoy them as much as possible.

[eqb]

Enjoy them as much as possible.

I plan to!

[Ken Schneider]

Not only is there a chance, I've got a contract for it, and the publisher has been very patient.


Looking forward to that one. Get your pen ready, I'm going to ship three books for your combined sigs.

Ken

[James D. Macdonald]

I plan to!

Remember that the copyeditor's job is to make us look smarter than we are.

[eqb]

Remember that the copyeditor's job is to make us look smarter than we are.

Believe you me, I am counting on that. The copyeditor is my friend.

So is the editor (who has done a shiny, wonderful job of catching my lazy moments).

This doesn't mean I won't examine their queries or suggestions, but I am grateful for their own careful examination of my work.

[James D. Macdonald]

A nice inspirational story:

A newbie writer who, as of mid-September last year hadn't even told her family that she was writing, has a three-book deal with the first coming out September of this year.

Also, those perennial questions on these boards:

When Are You A Writer? (http://lisadesrochers.blogspot.com/2009/09/when-are-you-writer.html)
When Are You An Author? (http://lisadesrochers.blogspot.com/2010/01/when-are-you-author.html)

[HConn]

Remember that the copyeditor's job is to make us look smarter than we are.


Which has the side effect of making us feel like complete dopes. At least, that's how it works for me; I've done two sets of copy edits so far, and they have both left me feeling that I should write personal letters of apology to my editor, agent, etc.

[euclid]

Jim, why not enlighten those of us who haven't had the pleasure of any contact with a publisher yet: What exactly is a copyedit?

[James D. Macdonald]

A copyeditor is the next-to-last person to see your book at the publishing house. (The last one is the proof reader.)

The copyeditor's job is to go through the manuscript and check spelling, grammar, facts, and consistency.

If your character was wearing a red necktie on page 34, and a blue necktie on page 58, the copyeditor will flag it and ask if this change was intentional. The copy editor will check to see if the White House was surrounded by a stone wall or an iron fence in 1865. The copy editor will mark the text to bring it to house style (e.g. serial commas). The copy editor may mark the text for the typesetter (e.g. display type for chapter heads).

Bad copyeditors think that what you really wanted was an uncredited co-author, and will correct the grammar in a language you made up yourself, while not noticing that people are using flashlights outside at nine in the morning.

After the copyedit, the author gets a chance to read the manuscript, make any final changes, and either accept or reject the copyeditor's changes (if you reject them, you write "stet" (Latin for "let it stand") in the margin in red pencil).

After the copyedit, the book goes to the typesetter, then to the proofreader. You will get a chance to read the galleys (copies of the finished typeset pages), but any changes you make at this point will be charged to you if they aren't printer's errors (that is, errors introduced in the typesetting that didn't occur in the original manuscript). Thankfully, you usually don't need to know the proofreader's marks for 'upside down letter' or 'broken letter' any more, since no one's using hot or cold lead now. (If, for some reason, the type is being set by hand, you will need to know these marks. Chances of that are slim.)

(Why do we need proofreaders now that everything's all-electronic? I can hear you ask. There was a publisher once who thought that very thing. And a major book came out where ever fortieth letter was shifted to the ASCII symbol exactly twelve places to the right in the table of ASCII values. The book was printed thus, and shipped ... and the entire run had to be recalled, and pulped, and reprinted. The typesetting house went out of business. The publisher lost a great amount of money. That is why you want a proofreader. And when you are reading the galleys (you're going to do that because it's your book), you're going to wish that you'd used underlines instead of italics in your original manuscript.)

How many editors does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: Only one; but first they have to rewire the entire building.

How many sales directors does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: (Pause.) "I get it! this is one of those light bulb jokes, right?"

How many managing editors does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: "You were supposed to have changed that light bulb last week!"

How many art directors does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: "Does it HAVE to be a light bulb?"

How many copyeditors does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: "The last time this question was asked, it involved art directors. Is the difference intentional? Should one or the other instance be changed? It seems inconsistent."

How many proofreaders does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: Proofreaders do not change light bulbs. They just query them.

How many marketing directors does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: "It isn't too late to make this bulb neon, is it?"

How many authors does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: "But why do we have to CHANGE it?"

How many cover artists does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: "Why is there...an eggbeater, I think?...sticking out of this light fixture?"

How many publishers does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: Three-- one to screw it in, two to hold down the author.


----------------

(I know the person who wrote those publishing light bulb jokes. Which led to one of the classic good news/bad news jokes: The editor of The New Yorker loved your latest piece! Unfortunately it didn't have your name on it when it arrived in the email....)

[eqb]

And when you are reading the galleys (you're going to do that because it's your book), you're going to wish that you'd used underlines instead of italics in your original manuscript.)

Then there's what happened to me last year. I had used underlines in the original manuscript, but the editor changed them all to italics for his working copy. The file also moved from a Windows-based machine to a Mac. When I checked the galleys, I found that nearly all the italics had vanished, and many (but not all) of the accented characters had turned into blank boxes.

The editor and typesetter quickly fixed things, and the printed copy is a lovely, lovely thing, but if I hadn't checked those galleys...

[Ken Schneider]

The writer/author question is one that needs to be qualified.

You can author a letter to granny.

If we're talking novels then....

[James D. Macdonald]

I had used underlines in the original manuscript...

And that made finding the places where they'd dropped out of the typeset manuscript really easy (for some values of the word 'easy') didn't it?

----------------

For me, writer and author are synonymous. You're a writer when you're writing.

Anything more complex is just an invitation to Impostor Syndrome.

[eqb]

And that made finding the places where they'd dropped out of the typeset manuscript really easy (for some values of the word 'easy') didn't it?

I was lucky, and the editor was kind. We were working with electronic galleys, and when I asked if he really wanted a list of all the places where the underlining had vanished, he volunteered to work with the typesetter using my original ms.

But yeah, I bet the underlining made things easier for the editor.

[HConn]

My first copy edit included a small diagram at the top of one page: the copy editor questioned the way I'd described a cul-de-sac, and drew it out to show what she meant.

[Scribhneoir]

How many cover artists does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: "Why is there...an eggbeater, I think?...sticking out of this light fixture?"


:roll: This one is my favorite. :roll:

[ziedinc]

How much plotting and outlining is too much? I love drawing diagrams and maps and writing short and long outlines and polishing them till perfection. And when it comes to writing I've already lost all the excitement of a fresh idea and ... move on to the next idea.

[eqb]

How much plotting and outlining is too much? I love drawing diagrams and maps and writing short and long outlines and polishing them till perfection. And when it comes to writing I've already lost all the excitement of a fresh idea and ... move on to the next idea.

I think you answered your own question.

Try less prep and more writing and see how far you get.

[James D. Macdonald]

How much plotting and outlining is too much?

When it gets in the way of actual writing, then it's too much.

Outlining can become a form of Writing Avoidance Behavior.

[ziedinc]

Outlining can become a form of Writing Avoidance Behavior.
I guess that's exactly my case. Just like reading this thread :)

[R.G. Alexander]

O so mine too. I wasted nearly 2 weeks reading through the whole thing.

[euclid]

O so mine too. I wasted nearly 2 weeks reading through the whole thing.

Not a waste. Trust me.

[R.G. Alexander]

Of course not, very not a waste. :)

[James D. Macdonald]

There was a girl who wrote a tale
And vomit was its theme-o.


For those of you who want to read the vomit story, here it is.... (http://www.coyotewildmag.com/spring_2007/content/pelland_dazz.html)

[euclid]

How many YA authors does it take to change a light bulb?
None at all. Just say the magic word and the bulb will replace itself.

How many Thriller writers does it take to change a light bulb?
Two. One to put it in and another one to add the final twist at the end.
(This one's not mine)

How many Science writers does it take to change a light bulb?
Applying Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle, it rather depends who’s asking the question, doesn’t it?

How many Science Fiction authors does it take to change a light bulb?
If the light bulb is on the exterior of the spaceship, and assuming a stable orbit, one man in a space suit should be able to complete the task in about three hours. At warp speed or in Hyperspace it could take a lot longer, and there may be other realities where light bulbs have been superseded by more advanced technologies.

How many Romance writers does it take to change a light bulb?
Oh darling! You are my light bulb and I wouldn’t change you for the world!

How many Hard-boiled Detective writers does it take to change a light bulb?
It takes as many as it takes, baby. Get used to it.

How many Erotica authors does it take to change a light bulb?
You mean safely?

How many Steam Punk authors does it take to change a light bulb?
That would be the lamplighter’s job.

How many fairy tale writers does it take to change a light bulb?
Eight, obviously. Snow White and the seven dwarfs to put her up to it.

*Cat-waxing here*

[smsarber]

Hey Everyone, some of you may have noticed I haven't been around. I have been in the hospital for the last 52 days. I'm not going to take up a bunch of space in Uncle Jim's thread, there is just too much to explain. I'll do that in another thread. I just wanted to say I am feeling good, and I'll be back posting here sometime soon, hopefully.

[xXFireSpiritXx]

My current manuscript is broken into three distinct parts. I am calling them Acts due to the way the novel is written and it fits. What would be the proper formatting?

Do you page break and then on the page just put Act One/Part One? or is this something that is decided after a sale and you just don't split the manuscript up at all?

[RJK]

I'm sure the final decision will lie with the publisher, but for the manuscript, you can Insert Part One, centered above the chapter where it begins, and the same for Parts two and three. It will save you a little paper.

[James D. Macdonald]

Each chapter begins on its own page. In the same way, start each part on a new page. Whether you call them parts, acts, or something else ... is your choice.

[Eddyz Aquila]

Uncle Jim,

If you're writing in the third person, and sometimes omniscient, does the rule "Try to avoid as much as possible past tense" apply? Or is it okay to use the past tense as much as you like? I'm talking about using present rather than past.

[James D. Macdonald]

Uncle Jim,

If you're writing in the third person, and sometimes omniscient, does the rule "Try to avoid as much as possible past tense" apply? Or is it okay to use the past tense as much as you like? I'm talking about using present rather than past.

"Try to avoid past tense" is a rule?

Darn!

Seriously, very few novels are written in present tense.

[James D. Macdonald]

Past tense:


"I need a carton of milk," Jill said.

"And I need some smokes," Fred replied.

They went to the store.



Present tense:


"I need a carton of milk," Jill says.

"And I need some smokes," Fred replies.

They go to the store.

[euclid]

"Try to avoid past tense" is a rule?

Darn!

:ROFL:


Seriously, very few novels are written in present tense.

I read two in the past year. The last one, Winterland by Alan Glynn nearly came off (I reviewed it in my blog), but it's heavy going reading a whole novel written in the present tense.

[batgirl]

I've heard of avoiding past perfect because the repetition of 'had' can be distracting, but I've never heard of avoiding past tense.
First you take my adverbs, then you take my tenses - what will be left?
-Barbara

[Krintar]

First you take my adverbs, then you take my tenses - what will be left?
"The"

[prusik]

First you take my adverbs, then you take my tenses - what will be left?


Nouns. (And adjectives, but you're not supposed to use those either.)

[Albannach]

I wish you'd do a workshop for non-fantasy writers. (I think I mentioned that ;) )

I have a question for you. Imagine that!

Do you still worry about improving your own writing? At what point does a writer stop thinking that they should work to improve? How (if they still worry about it) does an experienced writer go about continuing to try to improve?

Ok... more than one question. :)

[James D. Macdonald]

Under the heading, You Get What You Pay For: Sometimes you don't. Take pay-to-play vanity publishing (http://shilohwalker.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/sorry-mr-weiss-im-not-impressed/), for example.

And yes, the vanity pubs like to bring up the fact that Mark Twain self-published. What they don't mention is that a) before he self-published, Twain was already the best known, best selling, most successful writer in America, and b) he went bankrupt doing it.

[James D. Macdonald]

Do you still worry about improving your own writing?

Yes.

At what point does a writer stop thinking that they should work to improve?

You know that thing about "jumping the shark"? When you stop worrying about improving (or admitting that your writing can be improved), you're in mid-air over Carcharodon carcharias.


How (if they still worry about it) does an experienced writer go about continuing to try to improve?


I can't speak for other writers. For me, it's asking if this is the best story that I can tell, am I telling it in the best way, and are the words the best words? And, I ask myself if the readers are getting full value for their $7.99.

[James D. Macdonald]

I wish you'd do a workshop for non-fantasy writers. (I think I mentioned that ;) )



All that some workshop organizer has to do is ask.

[euclid]

Forgive my iggorance Jim, but I have no notion what "jumping the shark" means, or what Carcharodon and carcharias might be...

[HConn]

Jumping the Shark (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JumpingTheShark)

Short version: An event in a show that signals the series has passed its peak and has started spiraling downward. Named after the double episode of Happy Days where The Fonz jumped a shark tank on water skis.

[allenparker]

All that some workshop organizer has to do is ask.


Ok, I own a workshop and I organized it. Construction equipment on the left. Farm equipment on the right. So I guess that makes me an organizer.

Here goes.... Please Mr. MacDonald, write, prepare, assemble and hold a weekend or week long writing experience where the attenders will learn all of your success tips and become NYT Best Selling authors.

How's that?

When can I apply for the class?


Seriously, perhaps some well intended AW people could muster together to organize a weekend for such an event. Cost, location, and details to be decided by the group and within the monetary needs for people, place, and time.

[allenparker]

Jumping the Shark (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JumpingTheShark)

Short version: An event in a show that signals the series has passed its peak and has started spiraling downward. Named after the double episode of Happy Days where The Fonz jumped a shark tank on water skis.


It was my hope he didn't make it. That would have saved the show.

[jinkang]

It was my hope he didn't make it. That would have saved the show.

It wasn't that bad...though I didn't like the ending much.

And that brings me to my point, UJ: how do you write an ending that make readers ponder long after they put down the story?

I find that my endings are either too dramatic or too simple.

To make an impact, I feel I need more wordage...but at the same time, I want that story to end, not just go on forever.

Thanks.

[Ehab.Ahmed]

Excellant question. I would like to know the answer, too.

[Albannach]

Jumping the Shark (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JumpingTheShark)

Short version: An event in a show that signals the series has passed its peak and has started spiraling downward. Named after the double episode of Happy Days where The Fonz jumped a shark tank on water skis.

Thanks. I was reluctant to admit I had no clue what that meant. :tongue

Edit: Carcharodon carcharias I had more luck with when I googled it.

fortunately I'm a long way from mid-air having not stopped worrying about it but I am rather worried at reading my last novel. For the first time ever, when I read something I wrote I don't want to tear my hair and and scream from pain. I rather like it in fact.

That scares me and I suppose I worried about the possibility that one might become complacent. Not that it's THAT good. But... yeah. Writers worry about everything.;)

[James D. Macdonald]

And that brings me to my point, UJ: how do you write an ending that make readers ponder long after they put down the story?

I wouldn't know.

What I aim for is having the readers say, "Wow, I never saw that coming!" without having them say, "You just pulled that out of your ass, didn't you?"

Such simple things keep me busy. If the readers are left pondering, I want them to ponder "Where can I get more?"

[Dave Willhoite]

I wouldn't know.

What I aim for is having the readers say, "Wow, I never saw that coming!" without having them say, "You just pulled that out of your ass, didn't you?"

Such simple things keep me busy. If the readers are left pondering, I want them to ponder "Where can I get more?"

Well, that is a pretty clear "How to".

It might not work for me, but I will give it a shot.

Dave

[Michael_T]

how do you write an ending that make readers ponder long after they put down the story?

I recently posted my quick anaysis on this board of the ending of Les Miserables. (I cried for over half an hour) I think there are some thing to be learn from that book.

UJ: I know you've analyzed the beginnings of many books here, but how about an ending?

[ClaudiaGray]

It was my hope he didn't make it. That would have saved the show.

It would quite possibly have been the only death cool enough for Fonzie. "Devoured by sharks." Tragic, but undeniably badass.

[James D. Macdonald]

Beginnings are easy to analyze. Endings are far harder, because you'd have to analyze the entire rest of the book to do it well. Did the ending fulfill the promise made by the beginning? Did it tie up the plot threads? Was it both satisfying and appetizing?

Shall we pick a book, all of us read it, and have a semester-long discussion of the ending? For that is what it would take.

"Openings teach you openings. Endgames teach you chess." (http://www.chess-poster.com/english/notes_and_facts/chess_quotes.htm)

[jinkang]

I would love that...though I fear for my writing time already...but I think I'll definitely read whatever book it may be.

[James D. Macdonald]

Amazon Pulls Macmillan Books Over E-book Price Disagreement (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/amazon-pulls-macmillan-books-over-e-book-price-disagreement/)

That includes my books, including the recent re-issue of The Apocalypse Door (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?ISBN=0765306085/).

I will be removing all links to Amazon.com from all webpages under my control. Barnes&Noble, Powell's, Borders, and Books-a-Million can have what business I bring.

Nor will I ever again buy a book from Amazon.com.

[half.jaded]

*shuffles into thread again*

One question. I'm an outliner, and I can't seem to outline anything right now. And I tried to wing it, but I can't. Why can't I outline anything? Is it just my brain procrastinating or is it possible that there's something wrong with the plot?

[James D. Macdonald]

Is it just my brain procrastinating or is it possible that there's something wrong with the plot?

Consider seriously that it's your subconscious saying that the plot doesn't work.

(After that, consider that it's your saboteur-self trying to keep you from writing at all.)

Maybe trying a different form of outline?

How about just doing a fast ten-page present tense description of the story? If you have one of those, I can give you tricks for blowing it up into a full novel.

[half.jaded]

I think the plot works. Oo I have a beginning, a climax and an ending, but no middle.

It's as if my brain refuses to tell me what goes on in the middle of the story.

[James D. Macdonald]

It's as if my brain refuses to tell me what goes on in the middle of the story.

Oh, in that case it's an easy fix.

Just wade in. Think of yourself as trying to make it through a swamp with a machete.

You know where you went in. And you can see, on the horizon, the mountain you're trying to get to. In the middle, there's this swamp. So, you wade through it, swinging your machete, with the mud sucking at your boots.

Yeah, you can get lost. And you will definitely be eaten by mosquitoes. But eventually you'll make your way through that swamp. Don't worry if you only have a vague idea of what's there before you enter.

[half.jaded]

Lol. Okay, I'll jump in. *crosses fingers*

Thanks for the advice!

[Terie]

Amazon Pulls Macmillan Books Over E-book Price Disagreement (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/amazon-pulls-macmillan-books-over-e-book-price-disagreement/)

Do you know, is Macmillan the sole hold-out? That is, have the other publishers caved? Or is there hope that the others will stand fast, too? I think it's horrible that retailers are gaining this kind of power over suppliers.

[FOTSGreg]

Uncle Jim wrote, ...I can give you tricks for blowing it up into a full novel.

Oh! Mememe! I'd love to hear about these tricks. Please.

[eqb]

Just wade in. Think of yourself as trying to make it through a swamp with a machete.

That's *exactly* what I do.

And it always works.

The trick is remembering that it always works, so you don't get overwhelmed or discouraged.

[FOTSGreg]

I try very, very hard to have at least a few chapters ahead of where I'm currently working at least rough-outlined. I've (apparently) made a huge mistake with my one of my latest WIPs as it's just not going anywhere and I've no interest in getting back to it. There's another WIP that I've worked on and off again on that's grabbing all my attention right now (and which I just realized the other day has an extremely weak opening chapter - this one needs lots and lots of work). That one I at least have worked out to many chapters ahead of where I'm at right now in the rewrite. My other one just has a few notes and a couple of maps and such.

[Blue Sky]

Shall we pick a book, all of us read it, and have a semester-long discussion of the ending? For that is what it would take.

YES!!!!! I've been wanting to do that since I started reading your UJ thread. No problems here starting, other than life taking my time. I was bummed that I missed the Holiday Challenge, but momentarily. Life grabbed me immediately.

What book do you recommend?

[half.jaded]

I'm reading Logical Chess: Move by Move.

I've finished the first game, but I think I'm not getting the whole connection with writing part. Oo Am I doing something wrong or do I have to finish the whole book to get it?

[Ken Schneider]

Everyone is different when it comes to how to write. Outline, plot points, or just wing it. I just wing it, and love the high I get from not knowing what will happen next. And, something always comes to mind and the story continues. My ending always seems to change from what I planned in the beginning.
My characters take over the story and I'm just watching like a movie and writing down what I see. Being in the writing zone is awesome when it comes, you can't type fast enough to keep up. I couldn't imagine writing any other way.

I'm sure you'll wade through the middle and the story will continue.

Go get 'um.

[James D. Macdonald]

Update on the Macmillan v. Amazon affair. This was a release from Macmillan's CEO this afternoon:

To: All Macmillan authors/illustrators and the literary agent community
Editors' note: This message ran as a paid advertisement in a special Saturday edition of Publishers Lunch

To: All Macmillan authors/illustrators and the literary agent community
From: John Sargent

This past Thursday I met with Amazon in Seattle. I gave them our proposal for new terms of sale for e books under the agency model which will become effective in early March. In addition, I told them they could stay with their old terms of sale, but that this would involve extensive and deep windowing of titles. By the time I arrived back in New York late yesterday afternoon they informed me that they were taking all our books off the Kindle site, and off Amazon. The books will continue to be available on Amazon.com through third parties.

I regret that we have reached this impasse. Amazon has been a valuable customer for a long time, and it is my great hope that they will continue to be in the very near future. They have been a great innovator in our industry, and I suspect they will continue to be for decades to come.

It is those decades that concern me now, as I am sure they concern you. In the ink-on-paper world we sell books to retailers far and wide on a business model that provides a level playing field, and allows all retailers the possibility of selling books profitably. Looking to the future and to a growing digital business, we need to establish the same sort of business model, one that encourages new devices and new stores. One that encourages healthy competition. One that is stable and rational. It also needs to insure that intellectual property can be widely available digitally at a price that is both fair to the consumer and allows those who create it and publish it to be fairly compensated.

Under the agency model, we will sell the digital editions of our books to consumers through our retailers. Our retailers will act as our agents and will take a 30% commission (the standard split today for many digital media businesses). The price will be set the price for each book individually. Our plan is to price the digital edition of most adult trade books in a price range from $14.99 to $5.99. At first release, concurrent with a hardcover, most titles will be priced between $14.99 and $12.99. E books will almost always appear day on date with the physical edition. Pricing will be dynamic over time.

The agency model would allow Amazon to make more money selling our books, not less. We would make less money in our dealings with Amazon under the new model. Our disagreement is not about short-term profitability but rather about the long-term viability and stability of the digital book market.

Amazon and Macmillan both want a healthy and vibrant future for books. We clearly do not agree on how to get there. Meanwhile, the action they chose to take last night clearly defines the importance they attribute to their view. We hold our view equally strongly. I hope you agree with us.

You are a vast and wonderful crew. It is impossible to reach you all in the very limited timeframe we are working under, so I have sent this message in unorthodox form. I hope it reaches you all, and quickly. Monday morning I will fully brief all of our editors, and they will be able to answer your questions. I hope to speak to many of you over the coming days.

Thanks for all the support you have shown in the last few hours; it is much appreciated.

All best,
John
Posted on January 30, 2010 at 5:28 PM

[James D. Macdonald]

Uncle Jim wrote, ...I can give you tricks for blowing it up into a full novel.

Oh! Mememe! I'd love to hear about these tricks. Please.


Okay, this is a really stupid trick (but, if something is stupid and it works, it isn't stupid).

Take that ten-page, single-space outline.

You figure that you're going for a 80,000 word novel.

80,000 words is 320 pages in standard manuscript format. You're looking for ten page chapters, so that's 32 chapters.

(Remember, standard manuscript format is Courier New, 12 point, one inch margins all around on 8.5x11 paper. Running head. Single sided. Black on white.)

Now, take that ten page single-space, present tense outline. There are fifty lines per page single spaced. Ten pages is 500 lines. It does not matter to me if you're using 8 point TNR or what the outline is written in.

Thirty-two goes into 500 15.6 times. Starting at the top of your outline, count down fifteen lines. Draw a line across the page with a red pencil between line fifteen and line sixteen. Now count down another sixteen lines. Draw a line across the page. Count down another fifteen lines. Draw a red line across the page. It doesn't matter if the red line divides a sentence in two.

If all goes well, by the bottom of page ten of your ten-pager you will have divided the piece into thirty-two sections.

Each section is the outline for one chapter.

Write each chapter, using only what's between the two red lines.

Each chapter shall be ten pages in standard manuscript format.

If you can't make length, drop back to the middle of the chapter and add paragraphs until you've pushed the last line to the bottom of page ten.

In those cases where you've divided a sentence in two, that's your cliffhanger.

Write a chapter a day. Ten pages, without fail. It's okay to throw any crap on the page that you want. You're going for length. But what happens in that chapter shall only be what was between those two red lines that define the chapter.

In a month you will have an entire novel.

Stick it in your desk drawer. Wait six weeks (during which you write something else) then pull it out, read it, edit it, re-write it, smooth it, and generally do all those things that you'd do with any novel.

"Holy moly!" I can hear you saying. "Does that work?"

"Yes, it does," I assure you. "I've done it. So have others. The Secrets of the Pros revealed."

[HapiSofi]

Amazon Pulls Macmillan Books Over E-book Price Disagreement (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/amazon-pulls-macmillan-books-over-e-book-price-disagreement/)

That includes my books, including the recent re-issue of The Apocalypse Door (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?ISBN=0765306085/).

I will be removing all links to Amazon.com from all webpages under my control. Barnes&Noble, Powell's, Borders, and Books-a-Million can have what business I bring.

Nor will I ever again buy a book from Amazon.com.
I think you're being remarkably calm, all things considered. :e2teeth:

[BigWords]

I think you're being remarkably calm, all things considered. :e2teeth:

"Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference...
And some smiting wouldn't be completely out of order right about now"

[James D. Macdonald]

It is not enough that I am merely no longer linking to them. I am actively sending people to their competitors.

Changing all the links is a slow process. But it is a necessary one.

I ask all my friends to do their shopping elsewhere and, should the need to link to a book or movie arise, please link to the title at Barnes&Noble or some other non-Amazon retailer.

[FOTSGreg]

<applauding>

That's brilliant! And a little diabolical all at once.

Like I said, I do love those neat little tricks and slights-of-hand that the pros have come up with throughout the years.

<heading off to see what I can do with a couple outlines>

[GreenRoom]

I had two books saved at Amazon in my 'to buy later' list. When I figured out a third I wanted last night, I ordered all three from B&N - it was worth the trouble of updating my credit card there. Whether or not Amazon realizes it, they are losing some business.

[smcc360]

Okay, this is a really stupid trick (but, if something is stupid and it works, it isn't stupid).

Take that ten-page, single-space outline.

You figure that you're going for a 80,000 word novel.

80,000 words is 320 pages in standard manuscript format. You're looking for ten page chapters, so that's 32 chapters.

(Remember, standard manuscript format is Courier New, 12 point, one inch margins all around on 8.5x11 paper. Running head. Single sided. Black on white.)

Now, take that ten page single-space, present tense outline. There are fifty lines per page single spaced. Ten pages is 500 lines. It does not matter to me if you're using 8 point TNR or what the outline is written in.

Thirty-two goes into 500 15.6 times. Starting at the top of your outline, count down fifteen lines. Draw a line across the page with a red pencil between line fifteen and line sixteen. Now count down another sixteen lines. Draw a line across the page. Count down another fifteen lines. Draw a red line across the page. It doesn't matter if the red line divides a sentence in two.

If all goes well, by the bottom of page ten of your ten-pager you will have divided the piece into thirty-two sections.

Each section is the outline for one chapter.

Write each chapter, using only what's between the two red lines.

Each chapter shall be ten pages in standard manuscript format.

If you can't make length, drop back to the middle of the chapter and add paragraphs until you've pushed the last line to the bottom of page ten.

In those cases where you've divided a sentence in two, that's your cliffhanger.

Write a chapter a day. Ten pages, without fail. It's okay to throw any crap on the page that you want. You're going for length. But what happens in that chapter shall only be what was between those two red lines that define the chapter.

In a month you will have an entire novel.

Stick it in your desk drawer. Wait six weeks (during which you write something else) then pull it out, read it, edit it, re-write it, smooth it, and generally do all those things that you'd do with any novel.

"Holy moly!" I can hear you saying. "Does that work?"

"Yes, it does," I assure you. "I've done it. So have others. The Secrets of the Pros revealed."

Thank you. That's beautiful! It's like when they opened the Ark at the end of Raiders (and before heads started melting). That one instant, before Nazis started getting schooled by Yahweh, is how I felt reading that. Thank you. I'm going to do that right now.

[Dave Willhoite]

Uncle Jim,

This article by the New York Times seems to say that Amazon accepted Macmillan's terms.

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/31/amazon-relents-in-fight-over-e-book-pricing/

I know that you aren't the CEO of Macmillan, but should I refrain from incendiary posts on other bulletin boards?

Dave

[James D. Macdonald]

Uncle Jim,

This article by the New York Times seems to say that Amazon accepted Macmillan's terms.

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/31/amazon-relents-in-fight-over-e-book-pricing/

I know that you aren't the CEO of Macmillan, but should I refrain from incendiary posts on other bulletin boards?

Dave



As of this hour, neither the Kindle version of Year's Best Fantasy 9 nor the paperback version of The Apocalypse Door (my two latest from within Macmillan) are available from Amazon.

Screw Amazon. I'm continuing to edit my links to books and movies to point at Barnes&Noble.

There's no "get well" clause in this. Amazon will never get another dime from me, nor will I ever again link to them.

I urge everyone else to help teach Amazon a lesson.

[FOTSGreg]

Uncle Jim, While I appreciate your enthusiasm for your current, ahem, tirade (Lord knows you're justified in having one now and then and Amazon's certainly a good enough target)...

When you're writing a combat-oriented or military science fiction piece, how much combat is too much?

[James D. Macdonald]

When you're writing a combat-oriented or military science fiction piece, how much combat is too much?

When it overwhelms the story, it's too much.

When the reader gets bored, it's too much.

If the combat supports the theme, advances the plot, and reveals character, it's fine.

(Elsewise, you're asking me "How long is a piece of rope?")

Incidentally, if you personally aren't a combat veteran, please consider getting a beta reader who is.

[FOTSGreg]

Uncle Jim wrote, Incidentally, if you personally aren't a combat veteran, please consider getting a beta reader who is.

I've done better. I have a Green Beret whose agreed to act as an advisor for certain scenes (husband of one of the Horror Hounds). Which brings up the notion of just asking if somone would be willing to help with certain portions of a novel for accuracy. I've had great luck just asking for advice and accuracy from scientists and grad students simply by asking if they would help or act as science advisors. Most of them were eager to help (2 PhDs, 5 PhD grad students, a museum curator, now the Green Beret).

It never hurts to just ask.

[James D. Macdonald]

Asking experts for help with your book (and giving them a nice acknowledgment) is great. And they're all eager to help. They want to talk about the thing they know the best....

[euclid]

I placed an order with Amazon (UK version) just before I read all the above. I never liked Amazon anyway, so will avoid them in future.

I've read a number of detective novels recently where the author keeps referring to his characters by using both names:

"James Ridgeway struggled out of bed. He found a cold sliver of bacon under a cold grill left over from the night before and heated it up for breakfast. Why had Nigel Devilhorn sent him that letter? Should he act on it or was it a trap for an unwary investigator? James Ridgeway lit a cigarette and absent-mindedly dunked it in his coffee."

sort of thing.

Is there some reason for this? It's a sort of style thing, but what does it achieve? (besides coming to the reader's attention and raising the question in his head)

[James D. Macdonald]

What does it achieve? It raises the word-count by one, each time it's used

[euclid]

Is that all it achieves?

[HConn]

UJ, apologies if this has been asked before, but what is the life expectancy of a book once it hits bookstores?

[James D. Macdonald]

UJ, apologies if this has been asked before, but what is the life expectancy of a book once it hits bookstores?

Which book in which genre in which bookstore?

Six to ten weeks to see if it sells. One to two years on the shelves if it does. Five years on backlist. Forever if it keeps selling.

[Terie]

Is there some reason for this? It's a sort of style thing, but what does it achieve? (besides coming to the reader's attention and raising the question in his head)

Part of it is British style. Since you said you ordered from Amazon.co.uk....is it a British book (British author and publisher)? If so, that could account for it. Sometimes it drives me nuts, but whenever I mentioned it my old writing group (I'm a US transplant to the UK), everyone looked at me like I was the one who was crazy.

Think (if you've read them) how often JK Rowling does it. I don't think Rita Skeeter is ever once called by just one of her names, not by the narrator and maybe not even by any of the characters in dialogue.

[KathleenD]

Just wanted to say thanks so much for the how-to on turning a ten pager into a novel. I tend to write in the 15-20K word range if left to my own devices.

[IceCreamEmpress]

euclid, I think that people who call characters by their first and last names are often journalists or former journalists who brought that habit to their fiction.

[euclid]

IceCreamExpress: You're right. The two examples I have in mind are both Irish journalists (Eugene Kerrigan and Declan Burke).

Terie: Mostly Irish detective stories published in UK.

The technique gives the text a "grainy" quality, although I'm not sure I could explain what I mean by that. I need to think about it.

I read another detective story: The Last Darkness by Campbell Armstrong, in which the author refers to his detective as Lou, Perlman and Lou Perlman, sometimes mixing these up on the same page.

In my own WIP, I use the surname all of the time. Jordan this and DI Jordan that, even when he's talking to his wife. She, and his friends calls him Ben. Using his surname all the time seems to create an impression of the character (maybe he thinks of himself as "Jordan"). Or maybe it creates an impression of the author as thinking of the character that way. I'm not sure.

There are times, too, when I use "He" fairly extensively. I feel this brings the reader much closer to the character. In my first draft, I found I'd switched from surname to "he" on page 25 or thereabouts, for no reason that I could explain.

This writing's a puzzle, isn't it?

[euclid]

I reckon there must be some jughead in charge of Amazon. Maybe that's not the correct expression. I mean someone with his head on backwards, someone who has no idea how the world really works.

[James D. Macdonald]

SFWA removes Amazon.com links from website (http://www.sfwa.org/2010/02/sfwa-removes-amazon-com-links-from-website/)

Due to Amazon.com’s removal of many of our authors’ books from its ordering system, we are removing Amazon.com links from our website. Our authors depend on people buying their books and since a significant percentage of them publish through Macmillan or its subsidiaries, we would prefer to send traffic to stores where the books can actually be purchased.

To that end, our volunteers are in the process of redirecting book links to indiebound.org (http://www.indiebound.org/), Powell’s (http://www.powells.com/), Barnes and Noble (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/), and Borders (http://www.borders.com/online/store/Home).

Many authors are being hit hard by this, so we encourage you to seek out new places to find their books.

Edited to add: It is worth noting, that if a book is only available on Amazon, we are leaving the link in place. Our goal is to make sure that it is possible to order our members’ fiction. Hurting authors to make a point about a publishing model is bad business, for anyone.

[James D. Macdonald]

Gathered from elsewhere at AW (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=141294#post141294):

With the exception of some work-for-hire projects, every word in my published books is my own (and my co-author's, of course).

What happens is the editor reads the book, and makes suggestions about changes. These come back to you in the infamous "revision letter."

You go through that, and decide what do to about the requests. Some of them, you slap your forehead and say "Why didn't I think of that?" Some of them it's "Well, why not?" Some of them you say "I see a better way." And some of them you say, "No way." You rewrite the novel with those in mind.

It's still your book. But it's better.

Let me give you an example. In The Apocalypse Door (http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/ad_excerpt.htm), the character "Simon" was added as a result of editorial suggestion. But I came up with him, and I added him. And it was the right thing to do.

[Krintar]

In my own WIP, I use the surname all of the time. Jordan this and DI Jordan that, even when he's talking to his wife. She, and his friends calls him Ben. Using his surname all the time seems to create an impression of the character (maybe he thinks of himself as "Jordan"). Or maybe it creates an impression of the author as thinking of the character that way. I'm not sure.
In mine, I've got one character who always goes by his surname (two in the current revision, though one's a minor player who dies two scenes after being introduced) and one character who calls everyone formally by their surname. Always they have good reasons for doing so. It's a handy form of characterisation.

This writing's a puzzle, isn't it?
One which you don't even know whether you've solved until long afterwards, at which point there's no way to figure out how you did it :tongue
Still, most interesting puzzle I've ever encountered.

[James D. Macdonald]

Booksellers from around the country delivered a standing ovation for a publisher battling against a major online retailer. During a opening remarks at the Fifth Annual America Booksellers Association's Winter Institute Program, a comment about Macmillan's stand against Amazon (AMZN) book prices elicited a standing ovation.

Standing Ovation for Macmillan at ABA Conference for Amazon Standoff (http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/publishing/standing_ovation_for_macmillan_at_aba_conference_f or_amazon_standoff_150938.asp)

[allenparker]

Anyone ever start out with a vice to accompany your writing and find that it is now a habit, part of your ritual without which writing is difficult?

I started several years ago sitting in one location, at one time, in a specific chair and drinking coffee, breaking my futon habit. Recently, the chair broke and I am using a new chair. It ain't the same. It feels funny. BIC is now BI some nebulous chair-like substance that neither fits my butt nor supports my creative butt brain usage.

Or is it just me?

[smsarber]

I am finally home from the hospital--70 days total. I wrote some, started a new novel, 5 pages in, and I really like the premise so far. I got an msi Notebook for Christmas, so it helped me turn the stay into something at least a little productive.

[euclid]

Welcome home Steve. 70 days! Wow! I bet you're glad to be outa there. I spent 2 weeks in hospital last year and nearly lost my sanity.

[HConn]

Anyone ever start out with a vice to accompany your writing and find that it is now a habit, part of your ritual without which writing is difficult?

I started several years ago sitting in one location, at one time, in a specific chair and drinking coffee, breaking my futon habit. Recently, the chair broke and I am using a new chair. It ain't the same. It feels funny. BIC is now BI some nebulous chair-like substance that neither fits my butt nor supports my creative butt brain usage.

Or is it just me?

It's not just you. You can bull through it, though. I use minor distractions to focus my attention "Hey, [distracting thing] is distracting me! I'm going to ignore it and laser in on the words on the page."

[smsarber]

Welcome home Steve. 70 days! Wow! I bet you're glad to be outa there. I spent 2 weeks in hospital last year and nearly lost my sanity.
Yes, glad to be home where I can start writing again. I was more or less "sedated" in the hospital, which made writing hard. I did five pages last night.

[Calliopenjo]

Congratulations Steve and welcome home!

Staying in the hospital should have gotten those creative juices flowing again. The plotlines that could be developed.

[James D. Macdonald]

Anyone ever start out with a vice to accompany your writing and find that it is now a habit, part of your ritual without which writing is difficult?


That's why I recommend that folks not associate any harmful activities with writing -- smoking tobacco, drinking alcohol, eating sweets -- lest they find that they can't give up the vice without giving up writing.

[smsarber]

That's great advice, UJ. So far I haven't associated any personal vices with my writing, knock on wood(head).

[MumblingSage]

Anyone ever start out with a vice to accompany your writing and find that it is now a habit, part of your ritual without which writing is difficult?

I started several years ago sitting in one location, at one time, in a specific chair and drinking coffee, breaking my futon habit. Recently, the chair broke and I am using a new chair. It ain't the same. It feels funny. BIC is now BI some nebulous chair-like substance that neither fits my butt nor supports my creative butt brain usage.

Or is it just me?

In my experiance, this would mean even more BIC is required--to erode said chair-like substance into the shape of my posterior. Or vice-versa, depending on the hardness of the chair substance in question.

[RJK]

Welcome home Steve. I've been wondering when we'd hear from you. I hope the drugs didn't dull your creativity, and I hope you're up to writing at your old pace.

[Calliopenjo]

Hi there,

I'm about to embark on a group project. Everybody is assigned a different character. I have no idea how this is going to turn out but. . . well. . . wish us luck.

[smsarber]

The Greatest of Luck to you Calli!

[HConn]

Good luck!

[Calliopenjo]

Hi there everyone,

This question was posted by a member of my writing group.

I'm not sure what the answer would be as I think the author in question here just got lucky. (Personal opinion.)

So if anyone has any thoughts or advice about this please post.

Thank you.

And thanks for the good luck wishes.
There's this thought which is worrying me for the past few months, but I put it off for a while as I had more pressing matters at hand. Once my work gets polished, I would like to approach a literary agent of both the U.K. and U.S.; but my concern is, do I need to have an alternate manuscript for doing so? I've been reading Harry Potter's books closely, and I observed that J.K. Rowling has been using a lot of adverbs. Also, there were a few scenes which I felt were, um, not showing but telling. I know that I don't have the experience or right to say this, but I am only saying what I observed. So, since J.K. Rowling is a British author, is it OK to use adverbs, and tell and not show there? I'm really confused, and I hope one of you would be able to help me out. Else I think I'll just stick to the American publishing arena. What do you think?

[smsarber]

So I'm working on this new novel, I downloaded WordPerfect (trial) so I have 29 days to finish first draft. Push me.

[Calliopenjo]

Good luck with Word Perfect and good luck with your new novel. Think NaNoWriMo.

[smcc360]

So I'm working on this new novel, I downloaded WordPerfect (trial) so I have 29 days to finish first draft. Push me.

I don't want to undermine your motivation, but you can download OpenOffice's word processor for free and use it forever, and it does everything WordPerfct does.

That said: WRITE, GODDAMIT! WRIIIIIITE!!! :rant:

[smsarber]

I have OO and Microsoft Word, also. Just getting a feel for which I like best.

[James D. Macdonald]

I don't want to undermine your motivation, but you can download OpenOffice's word processor for free and use it forever, and it does everything WordPerfct does.



But isn't Open Office a Word clone?

Who'd want that?

[James D. Macdonald]

I know that I don't have the experience or right to say this, but I am only saying what I observed. So, since J.K. Rowling is a British author, is it OK to use adverbs, and tell and not show there?

What J. K. Rowling has is story.

Story trumps everything.

[FOTSGreg]

Steve, We're warming up the BBQ pit down in Horror Hounds and chilling the spits just in case you don't make it.

The way I see it, you have absolutely no choice. Write or be barbecued (on an ice-cold spit).

Uncle Jim, Excellent point! Rowling's story touches a lot of people on many different levels IMNSHO, bt the point of it all is story.

If there's no story there, there's not much else is there?

[James D. Macdonald]

I ran into something fun at Boskone: Drowned Hamlet.

Suppose that, when Hamlet was sent to England with Rosenkrantz and Guildenstern, rather than all the muggery with the letters and the pirates and all ... he drowned. He's dead. Out of the play.

Write a poem, play, or story (or paint a picture) from that alternate version....

[smcc360]

But isn't Open Office a Word clone?

Who'd want that?

Well, I'm not one of those long-hair Commie-pinko Mac hippies... ;)

[Calliopenjo]

Thanks Uncle Jim. I sent the message. :Hug2:

[Krintar]

Well, I'm not one of those long-hair Commie-pinko Mac hippies... ;)
That is not fair to communists.

[James D. Macdonald]

Mac?

Wouldn't take one as a gift.

We were talking about WordPerfect.

[euclid]

I used Word Perfect in the days of yore (when it first emerged from the primordial soup) and it was ghastly. It used the function keys for the simplest things. When Word came along I thought it far superior because it demanded little or no cerebral effort on my part. This suited me as I have little enough brain power to spare.

Am I right in thinking Works is a modern version of WP?

[James D. Macdonald]

WordPerfect uses function keys for some keyboard shortcuts, yes, but the important ones (new, open, cut, paste, save, and print) are all on shortcuts on the letter keys.

Any time I hear people describe what they have to do to start a document in Word, I'm horrified. Why not just start typing?

Then we come to the infinite incompatible versions of Word, and the Word macro viruses, and the weird formatting....

(This is, all, rather aside from the point. If you like X-Y-Write, or Peachtree, and it helps you get words on the page, then go with my blessing and use it the way you like.)

[Krintar]

Any time I hear people describe what they have to do to start a document in Word, I'm horrified.
File->New?
What, is there a program out there which responds to your mental commands so you don't have to move the mouse? That's the only way I can think of to make it easier :Shrug:

[Scribhneoir]

Then we come to the infinite incompatible versions of Word, and the Word macro viruses, and the weird formatting....


Yep. My WordPerfect documents never, ever suddenly change font size for a single paragraph in the middle of my work as I've had Word documents do. Nor does it think "foreward" is correctly spelled as Word does. Nor does it do weird things with page numbering, especially if you're trying to suppress it on a particular page.

I use Word only at work because there I have no choice. My writing is done only in WordPerfect.

[HConn]

Any time I hear people describe what they have to do to start a document in Word, I'm horrified. Why not just start typing?


And me, I'm using Word for Mac. I just don't want to take the time to learn all new commands.

[smsarber]

I posted this in tech help, but never got a reply. Every time I try a header and page number in WP it won't work. The page number erases the header, and vice-versa.

[gabbleandhiss]

On my version of WordPerfect, go to Insert, then Header/Footer. Select Header A. Create. The header box should appear at the top of your document. Type whatever needs to go in that box. When you're done, click your cursor outside of the header box. Do that just to make sure your header works.

Place your cursor inside the header box. Make sure it's at the spot where you want the page number to appear. Next, go to Format, Page, Insert Page Number. Select whichever option suits you, then hit the 'Insert' button. Close.

That should be all there is to it.

[ClaudiaGray]

I've never had any trouble using Word, in any version.

[Cliff Face]

Nor me.

[RJK]

I've had all the problems you describe with Word.:rant: But then I took a few minutes to learn how it works. Haleluyah! :hooray:Alkazam! Problems went away. Huh,:Shrug:

[RHQ]

I started off with Word Perfect, but made the switch to Word when I began working in an office almost 20 years ago.

While I've had problems when I've tried to do a great deal of formatting in Word on books (using it as a layout tool, rather than a word processor, which it isn't really meant to be used as) I have absolutely no problems with day-to-day use.

For the record, my copy of Word (version 2007) does not recognize "foreward" as a word. If yours does, it would be because somewhere along the line someone added it to the custom dictionary. You can easily open that (it's just a text file) and remove misspelled words.

As for starting a new document, I don't even have to go to File-New. I just open Word and there is a blank page there waiting for me. Which is where I should be typing right now, actually. ;)

[FOTSGreg]

Heh, since we're Word-bashing...

Truthfully, I started off with a Royal typewriter with a broken "a" key that I had to push forward to print (raised blisters and callouses on my left thumb) that I bought myself as a kid for the then princely sum of $35 (hey, I was all of about 12 or 13 and living on a farm - $35 was a fortune to me).

Sometime around 1982-84 I used a MiCom 2000 dedicated word processor with about 16k of RAM and these humongous 8" floppy disks that held about 64k worth of data (it might have been 128k as it's been a long, long time). I finally convinced the office I was working in to buy a 386 PC, but that was a long, hard battle (at one point I brought in my Commodore 64 and used it to type up my reports and do some engineering work using a light pen (I miss that old light pen still).

I've used WordPerfect, Word, and a dozen other programs. The best program I ever used was for the Mac and was a great little graphic design program called Ready-Set-Go.

I currently use Word and OpenOffice with Dragon Naturally Speaking (v10) and my productivity has recently gone through the roof. I like OpenOffice for its flexibility and familiarity as I've seen enough of MS Office 2007 to make me think "what were these guys smoking when they redesigned the user interface" (I vastly prefer the interface in '03).

The only problem I ever had with Word was trying to figure out how to delete page numbering and eliminate annoying embedded code that occasionally stays in a document and screws up formatting.

[Ken Schneider]

I use wordperferct 8 and have version 11, and have used word, which I don't like.

[James D. Macdonald]

Our story, "Stealing God," which first appeared in this anthology (http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/kt_head.htm), and was reprinted in this anthology (http://www.powells.com/partner/34766/biblio/9780886779054?p_ti) and this anthology (http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/new_magics.htm), also available in this chapbook (http://www.lulu.com/content/718718), has now been translated into Korean in this anthology (http://www.changbi.com/catalog/content.asp?pBID=3085).

(Those who can't read Korean might try Babelfish (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/). Machine translation. Gotta love it.)

Eventually this may turn into money.

[BigWords]

The young people puts tax of imaginative power. Naturally dreamy frame distance the work which north rises the imaginative power which is vigorous effectively the thinking faculty and sensibility of the individual grow major role in this time. 'The different wolf is and' medieval Europe appearance is not a equipments one scrivener town which comes to open the antique stage with background, extremely `where is being in contact with a ordinary is new and ' fantasy fragments leads and the individuals are cherishing in limit of the imaginative power which challenges.

Babelfish has improved its' translation ability recently. I can almost read it... Well, maybe not.

[kurzon]

I currently use Word and OpenOffice with Dragon Naturally Speaking (v10) and my productivity has recently gone through the roof. I like OpenOffice for its flexibility and familiarity as I've seen enough of MS Office 2007 to make me think "what were these guys smoking when they redesigned the user interface" (I vastly prefer the interface in '03).

I keep picturing the design meeting:

"I know! Let's give them all the same features, but rearrange them so they're impossible to find!"

"BRILLIANT!"

[jinkang]

Hi Uncle Jim. Congratulations, by the way. Reprints are sales, after all.


Eventually this may turn into money.

I'm curious about that last sentence. I'm guessing the foreign sale may not translate to money right away?

[James D. Macdonald]

I'm curious about that last sentence. I'm guessing the foreign sale may not translate to money right away?

The money will eventually come from the editor of the anthology that was translated (this is the entire New Magics anthology). When he gets the payment, which may be quite small, we'll get a pro-rata share of fifty percent of the sale. Thus, much delayed and quite small indeed.

[allenparker]

The money will eventually come from the editor of the anthology that was translated (this is the entire New Magics anthology). When he gets the payment, which may be quite small, we'll get a pro-rata share of fifty percent of the sale. Thus, much delayed and quite small indeed.


I am not sure how Jim feels, but I would consider this found money. He already has collected a couple of times on the story and now is looking at another paycheck. Even if it only buys a hamburger and fries, that ain't bad.

just my thought, though.

[James D. Macdonald]

Reprints are the gift that keeps on giving. More money for no additional work. What's not to like?

[Jaycinth]

Uncle Jim,

Way...way back... you put up a list of what steps to take to get published.

It was very good. It was very helpful.

So good and helpful, in fact, that Rolling Thunder had a link to it in his signature line.

But he's not around these days.

I can't find it.

Can you post that link again?:)

[James D. Macdonald]

Way...way back... you put up a list of what steps to take to get published.


Was it by any chance this? http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=82300&postcount=13

Found in another thread here at AW (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172168): Ten rules for writing fiction (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/feb/20/ten-rules-for-writing-fiction-part-one)

Some really excellent stuff.

Oh, and I just posted details of a years' sales of the Crossman chapbook here:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4659745&postcount=728

Make of it what you will.

[Calliopenjo]

Uncle Jim,

Is there a way to write telephone conversation? Do we write both sides of the conversation? Or stick with one and put in pauses?

[James D. Macdonald]

Uncle Jim,

Is there a way to write telephone conversation? Do we write both sides of the conversation? Or stick with one and put in pauses?


Whose POV are you in?

[smsarber]

A shout to Uncle Jim and the Ten Rules (http://smsarber.blogspot.com/2010/02/ten-rules-and-mine.html) in my blog. Along with my personal rules. But who am I to say what you should do? Except read the blog, lol.:D

[Jaycinth]

Was it by any chance this? http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=82300&postcount=13

Found in another thread here at AW (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172168): Ten rules for writing fiction (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/feb/20/ten-rules-for-writing-fiction-part-one)

Some really excellent stuff.

Oh, and I just posted details of a years' sales of the Crossman chapbook here:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4659745&postcount=728

Make of it what you will.

Thank you:Hug2: that's EXACTLY what I was looking for.


..... I need to put it on a tee shirt and wear it around

[Calliopenjo]

Whose POV are you in?

I have the MC's POV who is the one making the phone call.

[FOTSGreg]

In my book Hatchings I had the main character listening in to a telephone conversation. Since the story is told in third person, but almost entirely from his viewpoint and he only heard one side of the conversation it's a weird scene, but one we've probably all experienced more than once in a store or mall.

It was an interesting challenge writing it though, I must say.

[James D. Macdonald]

I have the MC's POV who is the one making the phone call.


If you're in the POV of the person making the call, you'll hear both sides.

Next question: Does it work?

Is this the best way to get the information across?

Does it move the story along?

[Calliopenjo]

Thanks Uncle Jim. You definitely give me something to think about everytime.:Hug2:

[Ken Schneider]

(snip) quite small indeed.

Quite small, plus quite small, plus quite small, times X number of works = full time writer.

[Elizablue]

I am not a "trained" writer. Fortunately or unfortunately it just sort of happens. Often at thousands of words at a time before the plane lands and I have to gather up all my lined notepads, along with the napkins I ventured onto when the pads ran out.

So...my question is what does one do when you're a third of the way into a story and suddenly realize you have no idea where it's going. An outline at the beginning would have been smart, but I never claimed to be such.

I have a novel WIP with almost 1500 known readers. I have previously posted segments as I went along on a third party web site. I sort of know where it could go but cannot seem to find the magic that caused me to write it in the first place.

[James D. Macdonald]

When in doubt, have a man with a gun come through the door.

[IceCreamEmpress]

When in doubt, have a man with a gun come through the door.


I disagree.

A woman with a gun is much more interesting. Or a bear with a gun, if you're writing urban fantasy. ;)

[RJK]

Or, "In the other room, a naked lady screamed."

[FOTSGreg]

How about a really sexy Irish redhead?

:)

Yup, I did that in a Quentin Dallas story called The Midnight Box.

[allenparker]

Or, "In the other room, a naked lady screamed."

This happens in my books all the time. They are usually screaming at their husbands. They probably deserve it.

[James D. Macdonald]

Where do you get your ideas? (http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=comic&id=31897&page=1)

[Noah Body]

Funny how the Randolph character had a superficial resemblance to you.

Or... is it?

[Bookewyrme]

Where do you get your ideas? (http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=comic&id=31897&page=1)

And bookmarked. On the one hand....ew. But on the other....where can I get one of those flower things? :D

[Perle_Rare]

Where do you get your ideas? (http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=comic&id=31897&page=1)

I never suspected... Does that mean I'm dreadfully unimaginative? ;-)

[Blue Sky]

During breaks from the Amazon Jihad and other things, I'm still interested in giving us time to read a specified book, then analyzing the ending.

How about one of Robert B. Parker's Spencer PI novels? Not my genre, but I picked two and read them after Mac posted the notice of Parker's passing. The novels move along and most seem to be short. Lots of old copies available in used book stores.

Or a book you've read Jim, to save you time?

[Elizablue]

I am not a "trained" writer. Fortunately or unfortunately it just sort of happens. Often at thousands of words at a time before the plane lands and I have to gather up all my lined notepads, along with the napkins I ventured onto when the pads ran out.

So...my question is what does one do when you're a third of the way into a story and suddenly realize you have no idea where it's going. An outline at the beginning would have been smart, but I never claimed to be such.

I have a novel WIP with almost 1500 known readers. I have previously posted segments as I went along on a third party web site. I sort of know where it could go but cannot seem to find the magic that caused me to write it in the first place.

Um....bump please...

[euclid]

Elizablue: I think you probably need help. Like a second person to collaborate with you to extract the great novel that's buried in there.

Just a thought.

[HConn]

Um....bump please...

Elizablue, the man entering with a gun and the naked woman in the next room screaming are the answers for you. They're metaphorical answers, but they're answers nonetheless. Essentially, throw an extra conflict into the story and let it work itself out.

Also, if you're losing the magic, then you're on the right track. Every writer hits a difficult part in the middle (although it's worse for some than others) when the story seems to be losing its way.

To help combat this (aside from the man with the gun), jot a few notes about your characters: What do they want at this point in the story? What's preventing them from getting it? What resources are available to them? What are they not willing to do in pursuit of their goal?

Answering these questions should give you an idea what the protagonists (and antagonists, and supporting characters) want to do in the future.

Good luck.

[Perle_Rare]

Elizablue,

I asked a very similar question on this thread in post 756 (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4401270&postcount=756).

Uncle Jim kindly responded in post 762 (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4403681&postcount=762). It's been working so far! *keeps fingers crossed*

Other writers on this thread also chimed in with great ideas between those two posts. You might want to go over and see.

Hope this helps! :)

Perle

[RHQ]

Thanks for this great advice. I think it will help me with my current fiction WIP. I'm approaching the middle and I can write what comes before and jump ahead to what comes after, but it's all that stuff in between that is holding me up.

Thanks!
Kelly


To help combat this (aside from the man with the gun), jot a few notes about your characters: What do they want at this point in the story? What's preventing them from getting it? What resources are available to them? What are they not willing to do in pursuit of their goal?

Answering these questions should give you an idea what the protagonists (and antagonists, and supporting characters) want to do in the future.

[James D. Macdonald]

How about one of Robert B. Parker's Spencer PI novels? Not my genre, but I picked two and read them after Mac posted the notice of Parker's passing.

An excellent suggestion.

I'll be passing a B&N this coming Saturday; I think I'll pick up something by Parker. Then we can get started.

(And I still plan to write that massive post on why art is about limits.)

[euclid]

What's the idea? Jim picks a book by Parker and we all find it, read it and analyse it?

[Blue Sky]

What's the idea? Jim picks a book by Parker and we all find it, read it and analyse it?

Yes! With a focus on analyzing the ending, if I'm correct, Jim?

Remember in Uncle Jim thread 1? Jim mentioned how studying chess openings teaches one openings, but studying the end game teaches one chess. So it follows.

[Calliopenjo]

Well, as soon as it's decided will someone please post the title? I might be able to find it at the library.

[Elizablue]

When in doubt, have a man with a gun come through the door.


Okay I get it. I'm a cop by day and sometimes it's hard for me to switch hats. Thanks.