Is this tacky?

[JERETHAL]

I usually don't think about morality when i start to write. I don't even worry about a sale or think about who I will market my work to. I just write when i feel inspired to write something. I bounce my work off my sister. She reads a book a week. She has a great mind.

Recently I outlined a screenplay I'm going to write. I sent my sister a synopsis.
She "called" me as soon as she read it. She never does that, usually she'll email me. Calls are saved for urgent stuff. She pleaded with me not to write the screenplay. She said she cried when she read the synopsis and it would be toooo traumatic for some people to see. She thinks it would be tacky and immoral to write the thing now. The synopsis really got to her emotionally.

It's a story I titled " one more hug". It's about a close knit family that is sitting around playing a friendly game of poker when one of them looks out the window and sees a " family contact team" pull into the driveway. A family contact team is a military officer and a priest or Rabbi who come to notify the family when a loved one is killed in action.
The entire movie happens from the time of the initial "uh-oh" when they see the contact team, until the team knocks on the door. Each of the family members memories are played out one at a time. It a movie of a series of memories of the dead Marines family. How each of them remember his life.
I use his Uncle, his Mom, his Dad, his Wife and his Aunt. When they see the contact team the film takes turns exploring the memories of each family members memory of the dead loved one. As a memory finishes, they walk away to be by themselves. The whole thing happens before the contact team can get to the door. When they get to the door, they are greeted by the dead marines young 5 yr. old son who just walked in from playing out back.
His memory is last. In the end, he gets a letter from his dad telling him he will be home soon. He wrote the letter before he died. He died because he was on a house to house mission and saw a little boy his sons age when he kicked in a door. The little boy was crying so he put down his rifle and walked over to him to tell him he would be okay. A sniper shot him thru a window.

My sister thinks this hits too close to home right now and would be too traumatic right now. Is this tacky or what. Should i censor myself?

[zagoraz]

Sounds to me like a fresh spin on a tired and cliche'd scene. The hard part is going to be keeping the audience interested in what is basically going to be a near feature-length second act. If you believe in it, write it. Don't worry about if it's timely or not, because by the time it ever got optioned, produced and released we're likely to be involved in a different war by then anyway. You don't see Toby Keith too worried about his pro-war songs being too overly dramatic. He's just looking to make a buck. And he's not having any trouble paying the rent, last I heard.

[dpaterso]

It's a heartstring plucker, all right. Alas, in the real world what your script details is happening on a regular basis. So timing couldn't be worse, IMHO.

On a related note, just before the invasion began I was tinkering with a comedy set in Iraq. Readers said it was funny. I haven't touched it in over two years. Don't know if I ever will. It's not so funny any more.

Let your conscience guide you.

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57/scripts.htm)

[Perks]

I think you should write it. If done well, it sounds much more of a personal story than an op/ed type piece disparing the trials of war. It doesn't sound tacky to me.

[TheRuleofThirds]

What would be tacky and immoral is to not portray the killed Marine in an honorable light. After that, I think your sister's wrong. I think if people were to see this, it'd be very cathartic for those who lost loved ones. Think of it as public service. But for Pete's sake, make it good. It sounds like your heart's really into this story and I think you feel compassion, not greed, while you write. What's tacky about that? Maybe you're driven by the great drama of the story rather than giving soldiers' families something to relate to, but you've gotta support yourself somehow. But I would say continue writing without caring whether you get paid for the script or not. If you've got a good idea, all the money in the world couldn't pay you like the payment you get for just getting the idea down on paper and off your chest.

[Boo_Radley]

I like it. It sounds like something which could move a lot of people, if done right. My only other comment: the multi-act structure seems as though it may work better as a play rather than a screenplay. Just an avenue you might want to explore. Regardless of what format you write it in, though, I'd be very interested in reading this.

<--- combat vet.

:)

[IWrite]

Jer -

You have described a framing device for a story - not a story. It's not tacky, but it runs the risk of being shmaltzy or worse depending upon the execution and the story you are telling within that framework. Stories require some sort of conflict so if the film is solely a series of flashbacks of "good, poignant memories" without conflict and the only tension coming from the audience knowledge that the character is dead - then I don't see much of a story there.

For an audience to know from the very beginning that the character is dead - is totally different emotional viewing experience than when an audience doesn't know the character is dead until the end. It can prevent an audience from getting emotionally involved with the character. So you need to work extra hard to pull an audience in.

[JERETHAL]

The thing is that I'm telling a story about a very special guy who was killed because he took time to comfort a kid.

Some angles I'm giving it is that he married a girl who was a tomboy in school. She couldn't get a date because she was a golden gloves boxing champion in school and a black belt. She hooked up with Danny- the dead marine- when Danny was working for his uncle as a carpenter. They were doing a job at the boxing club. The uncle overheard her saying she was sad because she couldn't get a prom date, so he talked Danny into asking her. Danny was worried because she could kick his ***. She looked dam good all dressed up tho!!

They both broke each others virginity that night and Danny jr. was produced.

At the prom there was some drinking and a few guys were gonna beat up Danny, so she jumped in and kicked some ***.
All that adds some interest to the story.

Also, when Danny jr. confronts the family contact officer, the officer is reluctant to tell jr. that his dad is dead. He looks past Danny for approval from Grandma. She nods okay.

Danny jr. says " I'm the man of the house now, my pop said I'm to look out for my mom if anything happened to him. I need to know."

After jr. gets the bad news he goes out to the creek outback that he and his dad and uncle always fished. His uncle is out there with his shirt pulled up over his head crying. Jr. looks up under the shirt and sees his uncles gut and says " you really need to do some situps". Thats a running joke between Danny sr. and the Uncle that jr. picks up on every time he sees his uncles bare gut. The usual response is for the uncle to say "yeah, and you need to do some pushups."

Jr. then mentions that he and his dad talked about the possibility of his death before he left. The uncle knows that because he was there when it happened. Jr. says " you know we talked about this, pop said I'm to take care of mom. Do i need to take care of you too?"

The uncle suggests they go get an ice cream in town. when they leave he notices the mailman arrived. He sees a letter from Danny that he wrote a few days before he died. Uncle reads the letter and sees it talks about Dannys coming home to see his boy soon. He can't give it to jr. so he writes a new one in it's place and saves the real one for another time.

At the ice cream parlor they see a news story come on TV about the war being a sham and that there never was any real WMD's in Iraq. Jr. asks if his dad died for nothing.

There is alot going on that I haven't mentioned, but it will definitely be hard for people to see. My sister cried the whole way thru the outline.

Strange that a movie has never been written about what happens at the moment the family contact officer shows up. We all can imagine it tho.

My goal is to make the people realize that sometimes an extraordinary person is a victim of his own compassion. If Danny doesn't volunteer to fight for his country.... if he just walks away from the scared little boy like his friends told him to, he would still be alive. And what did he die for? A lie?

The story is told mostly from the uncles POV. He was there when Danny got on the bus for his first day of school. His first dive off the high dive at the pool. His first pony ride. His uncle loved him like his own son. And he loves Dannys son like his own son. It's a story of extraordinary people who get struck by tragedy, but everybody can relate because they feel it too, because they all experienced the same thing. Except they never had a family contact officer pull up and become the reality of our worst fear.

The wife gets a letter from one of Dannys buddies at the end of the movie.
He tells her the story about how Danny put his gun down and went over to hug the little 5 yr. old Iraqi boy who was standing covered in his mom and dads blood, shakin so hard he peed himself. Danny put his gun down and walked over to the boy even tho his friends were tellin him to come on.
When Danny puts his hand on the little boys face he sees his own son. Then the shot that kills him. In a way, the last face he saw was his sons.

[IWrite]

Jer -

You're describing some emotional scenes - but I am still not seeing where your story is - your arc, your growth, your conflict. Danny's goal, his obstacle, etc.

Every death in Iraq is a tragedy. Every soldier has a personal story of how he got there. But a personal story is not the same thing as a story in the dramatic defintion of the word - and most human stories - no matter how dramatic - do not make good drama on the screen or on the page.

I'm not saying you don't have a dramatic story there - but you have not communicated what your story is.

[nganok]

It's a heartstring plucker, all right. Alas, in the real world what your script details is happening on a regular basis. So timing couldn't be worse, IMHO.

On a related note, just before the invasion began I was tinkering with a comedy set in Iraq. Readers said it was funny. I haven't touched it in over two years. Don't know if I ever will. It's not so funny any more.

Let your conscience guide you.

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57/scripts.htm)

Hey Derek - I have to disagree, this seems like the best time to do this type of drama if done tastefully. I like the idea. I kind of thought about the evil powers of Desperate Housewives used for good. A dead central character with the people that he loves revolving around him in a cleverly knit together story. I think it could really shead some light on some basic human emotions popular with military families across the US. Think of all the post-war blockbusters after Vietnam. Platoon, Full Medal Jacket, M*A*S*H. I like the idea and I think the timing is perfect. Now... I could be wrong. If so in the words of Donnie Brasco "Forget about it"


PS - Ladder 49 comes to mind as a good example of how this was done.

[TheRuleofThirds]

I'd have to quote one John Rambo and say, "Nothing is over!" The movie he was in was made 7 years after Nam. So...Iraq's still going to be fresh by the time this could get made. Another thing he could do is tell the story of the contact team coming to the house as a flashback for most of the movie, then at the end, reveal the results of that.

[maestrowork]

Well, I think your sister has trouble dealing with highly emotional stuff, that's all. I mean why is it immoral? I don't understand.

There's always a war going on somewhere. I mean, when are you going to be able to write about death of a soldier? Wait for world peace? Good luck.

They're even going to make movies about 9/11. Talk about heartstring-tugging.

Now, whether you can pull this off without being manipulative and "heartstring -tugging" -- which a lot of people "resent" -- is another matter. For example, Cinderella Man is very manipulative and heartstring-tugging, but it's VERY well done...

[Chesher Cat]

Iwrite is right...you have to have conflict and growth of the characters. With what you've eluded to here, there isn't any conflict. Also, your dead soldier sounds way too perfect to be human. What are his flaws and how are you going to play them out?

All the emotional stuff is great and it's good to make people cry but even movies like The Notebook (similar in that it is also an emotional story told through memories) have conflict and a story that builds and moves forward.

Don't hold back on a story because it may be an inappropriate time - if you are passionate about writing the story, write it now. That's the only part of the process that is under your control anyway.

[Fin!]

I wanted to comment on some of your story ideas. Here's what I think is a little odd:

1. Guy dates girl who's tougher and stronger than he is. Which is fine however, then you have him join the military. I think in most peoples' minds; people that join the military can already pretty much hold their own.

2. I would kinda stay away from the whole anti-war thing with "No WMDs" because this isn't Vietnam, there are a heck of a lot of people that support the war.

3. If you're sister cried that should be even more motivation for you to write this. You were able to bring out a very fierce emotion through words, there's nothing more powerful than that. You can't abandon it. Do you think Spielberg said "I can't make Schindler's List because it's too sad"?

The idea isn't tacky. The execution has yet to been seen though.

[JERETHAL]

Well, okay. He is reluctant to date the girl he marries because she was raised by a tough guy dad and was a tough girl. She could fight like a man. She was raised that way. I make Dannys tenderness rub off on her. She really looks pretty dressed up. That is the thing. She was tough as nails. Danny changed her. She becomes very feminine but retains her spirit. It comes in handy the way she handles the death of Danny. That is big in the story.

Danny joins the military out of a sence of duty after 9/11. He isn't a wimp. He is just a kind gentle guy that everybody loves. even his teachers,coaches, local judge. Everybody loves his gentle spirit. Thats what costs him his life.

The "story" is "How the death of Danny affects the family- especially his family.

What is so special about a love story. Answer: We can all identify with love.
Like the Notebook. It was just a love story. That "was" the story. The thing is that it made us love the characters.

This is nothing more than a story about the family contact officer coming to tell a family that their loved one was killed in action. I just want you all to meet these wonderful people and I want you to love Danny like everybody else did. Kind of like "The Notebook".

When you meet his wife and see her memory, you won't know she was a boxing champ and a blackbelt tomboy. It will be a surprize revelation when the Uncle reminisces [sic] You'll learn and get to know these people by what goes thru their minds at a time like this.

Hey, I cried the whole time i wrote the synopsis. My eyes got rubbed raw from wiping away tears so I could see my screen. But that was good because it made me write things to laugh thru the tears. I will make you laugh when you are crying hardest.

Somebody here doesn't see the story. The story is the people you will be introduced to. You will love them and never forget them.

I must confess though. I will feel terrible if I hear stories of familys having trouble in the theatre. There are real people out there that experience this.
If it gets made, I guarantee you that i wouldn't go to a theatre to see it because I couldn't handle it if it hits too close to home for someone.

One of the posters was almost right. Danny had no business being in that war or even in the military.

This story has me an emotional wreck. I swear to God it does.

In the story, Danny jr. is sitting on Danny sr. lap on the porch swing talking to the boy trhe night before he left for Iraq. They have a powerful talk that Danny jr. will draw on for strength when he gets the bad news. It was great forethought on sr.'s part, what he told him. Danny jr. ends up being stronger than anyone. Even the movie audience. He draws on the flashback to when his dad made him promise to be strong for mom, grandma, and Uncle Butch.
He breaks down when uncle Butch finds the mail in the mailbox from Danny sr. and goes back inside to to have a talk with mom. The uncle comes back out on the porch to find the little guy with his shirt pilled up over his face , crying like uncle Butch cries. Uncle Butch looks up under his shirt and tells him he needs to do some situps. little Danny says " you need to do some pushups" in a reversal of form. Thats how Danny cheered up Butch minutes earlier.
little Danny ain't so strong after all.

You'll love uncle Butch because he hurts the worst, and the story of Danny is "mostly" told thru his eyes.

I'll tell you one thing. I won't complain if i can't sell this one.
Can you imagine being in a theatre and ...............

[scripter1]

then just tugging at the heart strings as Iwrite is trying to point out to you.


All I think are in agreement that many of your thoughts are emotionally charged and at many points in your movie there is likely not to be a dry eye in the place.


It is an interesting concept, to take that 30 second time frame, slow it down and zero in on it.
However, movies have a very specific formula to them that makes them watchable, makes them work ON SCREEN.

The backbone of that formula is characters locked in conflict between something.
That antagonistic force may be a personal flaw, (greed, honesty, jealousy, laziness, anger, etc) or it may be a person, animal or thing (terrorist, boss, wife, storm, animal, alien).


The audience needs to know by the end of the film that SOMETHING has changed. Something has been accomplished. We go to the movies as a psychological way to deal with things we may not otherwise be able to deal with. We enjoy Spiderman because deep inside we all want to be a hero.
We watch Lord of the Rings because we all feel little and small and we want to see good win over evil. We watch romances because we need our hope restored in true love. We watch thrillers and horrors so we can be thankful that our problems aren't that bad. We see comdies so we can laugh at others making silly mistakes and learn to forgive our own.
(And yeah, you get out of the house; there is the spectacle, the effects, the eye candy.)

We don't want to leave the theater going "What was all that about? Gee, could have stayed home, watched CNN and still feel just as bummed out."


How will your film help us escape or deal with our humanity?
By the end of your story what will you have accomplished?
The soldier will still be dead.
Do you want the world to understand that death is sad?
That people will miss a loved one?
That War is hell?


Well, we all ready know that.
What we want is some way to DEAL with it.


In your story what will be different from when the car stopped at the curb and when the officers knock on the door?

If little Danny is your protag (it kind of sounds like he is) what growth does he go through? Does he fight a war inside himself? Does he discover a way to be comforted?

Maybe he starts out being angry but as he observes and goes through all the memories of his Dad and sees his family's reactions he comes to some kind of new understanding and by the time he reaches the door he is somehow ready to be what his Daddy wanted him to be.

The film would be about his CHANGE.
His STRUGGLE to cope with this loss and the grief around him.

Maybe his conflict is his love for his Dad and his anger at the choices that removed him from Danny's life.


OR you could take a slightly different bent on it and contrast the life of the little boy the solider comforted with Danny's experience. Danny will then have to deal with perhaps some hatred toward this other innocent child.


OR you can focus on how this family is divided by the pre Danny situation and the war, and how their grief unifies them in some way.


The point is that in order to fully involve the audience you MUST have a cohesive plot and viable conflict.

Some articles that may present these ideas in a more understandable manner then I perhaps did.

http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip288.htm
http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip30.htm
http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip11.htm
http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip12.htm
http://www.scriptsecrets.net/articles/decision.htm




Now, to the tacky question.
This is a win/lose story.
Some will agree with your take on things, and others won't, depending on their political views. You can't satisfy them all. As Depaterso said, you just gotta do what you believe is right and let the chips fall where they may.

I DO think you would need to approach the subject matter delicately and with skill. There is nothing worse then a serious subject handled poorly.

[IWrite]

The "story" is "How the death of Danny affects the family- especially his family.
Actually the screenplay you outlined does not tell this story at all. We have no idea how their lives will be changed or effected by Danny's death as the film ends when they find out the news. All we have are their reflections on what life was like with him and how they react to the news of his death.

I am going to revise my initial statement and say that yes it is tacky to create a screenplay that is devised to manipulate an emotional response in an audience merely by the subject matter (dead soldier with heart of gold) as opposed to generate true emotion from plot, conflict and multi-dimensional characters.

[WritingFool]

First, Id care what no one else says. Write it out. It wounds good. Theres always gunna be a market for this type of story. Myabe not big screen, maybe cable, maybe network TV. It sounds like a good concept, so put it into screenplay format.
About your sister, you cant make everyone happy, youre a grown up, and if writing this story brings you some kidn of pleasure, do it!
Do it!

Someone can always come in and clean it up for you.
Otherwise youre always going to be torturing yourself, should I have written it.

Here's my shot at an ending.
Have the actual marine that was killed, and another soldier from same block, neighborhood, (basically make it a mixup in names like they did in Saving Private Ryan)
After all that, spice the ending up so that he comes through the door, Alive and Well.
that should bring some tears to the eyes.

[NikeeGoddess]

this kind of stuff always reminds me off The Best Years of Our Lives which was a personal/ensemble story about various soldiers afflicted by WWII. it was so fresh that one of the soldiers who lost both hands actually played himself....and he wasn't an actor. it won the Oscar for best picture that year. check it out!!!

[IWrite]

this kind of stuff always reminds me off The Best Years of Our Lives which was a personal/ensemble story about various soldiers afflicted by WWII. it was so fresh that one of the soldiers who lost both hands actually played himself....and he wasn't an actor. it won the Oscar for best picture that year. check it out!!!
Nike - that's a good example - but Best Years was filled with conflict as all the characters must come to terms with how things have changed. It's the personal challenges and conflicts that made that script brilliant. It's the darkness, not the light that led it to win the awards and become a classic.

What Jer has described has no apparent conflict or drama other than the death itself.

The Notebook's poignancy comes from the true identity of the alzheimer's victim - but the drama, and emotion comes from the struggle that the character's had to be together. Without that struggle, without that conflict - the audience would not connect in the same way to the older characters.

Drama is conflict. Character's need to grow and change which means they need a mix of good and bad, dark and light.

[StephieM]

Jer,

Your story definitely has a lot of emotion, but Iwrite is right, without conflict that emotion takes you nowhere. Scripter1 had some good suggestions.


Maybe he starts out being angry but as he observes and goes through all the memories of his Dad and sees his family's reactions he comes to some kind of new understanding and by the time he reaches the door he is somehow ready to be what his Daddy wanted him to be.

I thinks this would hit it right on the nose.

I think you could possibly hit it harder if each of his relatives were angry about something that occurred before Danny left, something they weren't able to find closure to. Even heroes have flaws.

Maybe he was tempted to cheat on his wife and she never forgave him.

Maybe when they were children, Danny and the Uncle quarreled over something major, which was the uncle's fault. The uncle never got to say he was sorry.

Maybe one of his relatives have kept a deep dark secret about something and planned to tell him, but no longer have the chance.

Little Danny is upset because his father promised he'd return.

These kind of things make conflict. Without conflict you have no story.

Play with it a little. See if you can come up with your own conflicts.

Steph

[JERETHAL]

Well, I'm writing the thing with the goal in mind of "trying to present on film what we all would feel when that car pulls up in front of the house."

All of us would experience the same thing. We would flashback memories of our loved one. I know that I have been keeping my nephews in mind as i write this.

It's almost like i can feel what it would really be like to experience that.

You then have to tell a story about the serviceman killed. Who was he? Who are the people that love him? Who did he leave behind? How do they handle that moment?

They're just having a family get together playing cards on a nice summer day when WHAM! , life deals them a blow to the gut.

When I started this thing, I have the family playing a friendly game of poker. The dad wins a hand with aces and eights- two pair- The dreaded "dead mans hand" As soon as the hand is laid down, the niece sees a car pull up with a marine and a Father Miller. As the dead mans hand hits the table she says "uh-oh" off screen. Poker players in the audience will recognize the irony, others will learn of it later.

My challenge was to make the characters as interesting as possible to make up for a lack of ?????

The memories present interesting people and are played like skits on Saturday night live. Each person has their own memory. It ain't like you think. Grandma is not cookie cutter. Neither is anybody in the family. The wife was a golden glove boxer and a karate champ. Uncle Butch was a holehog in Viet Nam, going into the holes after Viet Cong. That inspires Danny to join the fight aafter 9/11. Lot's of guys actually did that.

The conflict will occur over the posthumus letter to Danny jr. Butch intercepts it and changes it with Moms approval.

Conflict will be a plenty when Danny is killed when he sees the little Iraqi boy covered in his familys blood. The little boy pees himself when Danny takes a step toward him with gun in hand. That makes Danny drop his gun and see his own little boy. As Danny stands in front of the blown out window, a iraqi sniper gets him in his sites. He sees Danny get tender with the little boy and suddeenly he doesn't have the heart to pull the trigger. He looks thru the site and decides to let Danny live. Another iraqi comes up and sees Danny in the window as the little boy starts to hit Danny because he mistakenly believes Danny killed his family. The sniper thinks Danny is hurting the boy and he's defending himself, so he shoots Danny dead. Horrified, the little boy goes deeper into shock and walks out the door into the street as the gun battles rage. He walks like a mummy- traumatized.

I was thinking I'd like this little boy to somehow end up in america and meet the family, but I couldn't figure out how to feasibly make that happen. I felt like I'd like the family to know how Danny spent his last moments. What he saw. So I use a buddy who saw the whole thing to tell the family.

I work hard to present Danny as a compassionate guy, but not a wimp. In his uncles memory, he remembers Danny likes to pretend to be Tarzan because he loved Tarzan cartoons. I wrote a scene where Danny and his uncle go to a public pool and the uncle swam dives off the hi dive. Danny follows him up the ladder. Danny is only 4 years old. The female lifeguard has a fit when she sees Danny out on the hi dive board. She whistles and says Danny can't jump. Danny looks disappointed so uncle Butch says to the lifeguard " it's okay, he's Tarzan." Danny takes courage from that and jumps. There's two seconds of drama as Danny doesn't immediately surface. See, you can be brave and kind at the same time.

Another angle the story has is the way Danny transforms Vicky from a femme fatale to a sexy lady. Her daddy wanted a son. She finds that she likes being a girl.

But when it all boils down to it, i have a problem with the story. Real people will be deeply affected by this. How can someone go to see this movie and then come home and have it become reality? Things like that will happen.
Hell, I probably would ahve a hard time selling the thing because of the built in problems of the subject matter. I hope I never have to experience it in real life.

I'm leaning toward finishing it but putting it in a drawer and never looking at it again when I'm done. Writing it is changing me. That never happened to me before. I find myself looking for ways to "snap-out of the story", but I can't.
It's like something supernatural is going on and I'm being driven to write it.
I've walked away from many a story because I didn't like where it was taking me. I can't just walk away from this one. If I quit writing right after i write myself to tears, I got to go back and write until I hit a happy note.

I can say that I haven't had to think about anything in this story. It just oozes out of me. I type non- stop. It's like I'm daydreaming in color and I don't know what is going to happen next, but it dam sure keeps oozing.

I never wrote anything that made me get up in the middle of the night and walk for miles because I can't deal with what I'm writing. How weird is that?!!!

[StephieM]

You have a good story here, but I'm afraid you're not getting what we're trying to say.

A soldier getting killed for approaching a little boy covered in blood is not conflict. Conflict is something to be overcome. If the man is dead, how will he overcome his own death?

Conflict is something that interferes with your character. It is what causes your characters to act. Without conflict you have no action. No action, no story.

Your story has a good concept, but no one is going to go to the theatre and watch a two hour movie based on emotions alone. In the end, the man is still going to be dead.

Suggestion-if you haven't already, watch "LADDER 49" or read the script. The man character is trapped in a fire during the whole movie, but we get flashbacks of his life. There is a lot of emotion, but there is also conflict. One of the main conflicts is that his wife is worried he might be killed, he's got two children, they fight and argue, at one point he seriously considers quitting his job as a fire fighter. In the end the man gives up and dies in the fire. It's very sad and a little disappointing, but during the movie we had something to hang on to. We wanted to know if the main character was going to survive or wether or not his wife had good reason to worry. You got to find that something that is going to keep us hanging on.


Steph

[IWrite]

I've read over your entire posting and am going to address a few of your comments here. It is often better and easier to address these things while you are still developing the story rather than once it's complete. I am approaching this as I would approach any story that was pitched to me that sounded weak. To be honest if you had pitched me this story I simply would have put the query in the rejection pile - because to me there is neither a story or true conflict present and your explantaions in this post do nothing to alleviate those concerns.

First of all what you are describing here is not a linear story - it is more of a collage or scenes that in their totality will create a moving, clear, and compelling portrait of a person.

There are very few writers who can pull this off without the benefit of a linear storyline and make it dramatic and compelling. I strongly suggest therefore that whatever flashbacks you do have weave together into one linear storyline that traces Danny's life, growth and decision to enlist - rather than an isolated memory of how he met his wife here and another of him as a 4 year old playing Tarzan.

Well, I'm writing the thing with the goal in mind of "trying to present on film what we all would feel when that car pulls up in front of the house." All of us would experience the same thing. We would flashback memories of our loved one.
I'm not sure I buy this - I mean we are all different and react differently to such tragedies - but I think if most people saw the military car pull up to their homes - they would not experience fully fleshed out flashback memories at that moment - they'd have panic, fear, dread, denial, numbness coarsing through their veins. The most likely image to pop into your head is an image of how they died - not a memory of how they lived.

Later, once the shock and pain have subsided somewhat, the memories would filter in. I know that's been my experience every time I've found out about a tragic and unexpected death. At the moment you find out such a thing, you are numb, angry and shocked.


It's almost like i can feel what it would really be like to experience that.

Feeling it yourself and getting your audience to feel it are two different things entirely. I am not sure that the way you are structuring this is the best way to accomplish the mission of getting the audience to feel it.

The best way to do that is through a comeplling STORY. With a character the audience can relate to because he overcomes the obstacles both inside and outside himself to achieve his goal. This is what allows an audience to connect and empathize with a character. Showing a series of mushy - or "awwww, how sweet" enducing moments without a strong spine of a story and a character that grows does not create empathy

They're just having a family get together playing cards on a nice summer day when WHAM! , life deals them a blow to the gut.

I'm not buying this either. When your loved one is in at war - you are always slightly on edge - you never fully relax - it's never completely unexpected. Everytime a car pulls up in front of your house some part of you tenses anticipating that it's the military officials.

I think the big problem with these assumptions that you are making to frame your story - is that it is necessary for you to have an audience that will make those same assumptions if your story is to play out emotionally the way you want it to.

Those who like think that fear, panic and numbness are the most likely reactions to seeing the car rolling up - may find it eye-rolling that you used this set-up to lead to flashbacks.

The conflict will occur over the posthumus letter to Danny jr. Butch intercepts it and changes it with Moms approval.

Your main conflict MUST involve and impact your main character. It appears that Danny is your main character - since the man is dead by the time his sone receives the posthumus letter - he will obviously not be effected by the conflict.

The conflict needs to be about some sort of struggle for your main character. Internal and external. As I said up top - a pitch with no conflict is a pitch with no shot. I am not saying that you cannot tell a story using flashbacks. I am not saying you cannot tell a story about the issues you want to explore.

What I am saying is that you still have not been able to communicate exactly what your story is and you have not put your main character in any type of conflict (the scenario you described about Danny is a momentary conflict - not an ongoing one that defines and changes who he is). In order for your script to work then everything that comes before it for Danny would need to lead to that moment. Danny's decision to drop the gun and comfort the boy needs to come out his growth cycle and the resolution of his internal conflict. I'm not seeing that in your explanation.


But when it all boils down to it, i have a problem with the story. Real people will be deeply affected by this. How can someone go to see this movie and then come home and have it become reality? Things like that will happen.
Yes you do have a problem with the story and that problem is you don't appear to have one. You seem to be confusing - a tear jerking moment here and there - with a movie that packs an emotional wallop. Go back and look at any movie that has ever brought you to tears. You will see it is the story itself, the drama and the conflicts that have built up to that moment of loss. We feel the loss because we empathize. We empathize because we've taken the journey with the character. You do not sound like you are creating a journey.

I'm leaning toward finishing it but putting it in a drawer and never looking at it again when I'm done.
The difference between an aspiring writer and a professional one - is that an aspiring writer either will never finish it or will put it in a drawer when it's done - and a professional writer will keep revising and honing until it shines - and then will get it out into the world.

I can say that I haven't had to think about anything in this story. It just oozes out of me.
This is a big part of the problem. Ideas flowing out of you can feel great especially in a first draft. But structure, beat progression character development, require a certain amount of thought and strategizing.

You need to take a long hard look at your intention vs. your ooze. Because often what oozes out of us does not actually serve our intentions. For example it sounds like you want to pack an emotional wallop. That's all well and good - but what you have described is not going to do that.

I don't know what your background is Jer - but I suggest you pick up a good book on drama. One of the best is "The Art of Dramatic Writing" by Lajos Egri. It was originally written for playwrights - but his analysis applies to any sort of dramatic writing. It's among the most complete and the best books on the subject. I am sensing from your posts that you are missing the mark on what drama actually is because you are focusing on the concept of creating a visceral, emotional reaction - but you appear to be unaware that those reactions are in fact a pay-off to the dramatic elements set in place well prior to the scene that made you cry.

I hope you will take this in the spirit in which it was written - which was to give you food for thought. You do have the seed for something that could be quite interesting and dramatic - but you have not even begun to sow that seed.

[JERETHAL]

Good points all around.
I agree with the conflict/resolution requirement.

In my opinion the movie is just one big conflict. I think the real conflict is going to be the "war under false pretenses and the death of American young men and women." Can any good come out of it? Danny joined because of 9/11. Went to iraq under false pretenses. The family is angry he is there under false pretenses. They are mad that he dies.

Then they hear the story of how he died and it takes some of the bite out of the pain.

I don't know where I'm going. It's like I'm writing on supernatural inspiration. I never experienced this before. It's like the story is only using my hands.

When I'm done I'll let you read it to see if you like it if you want to.
I'll even post it right here if some of you want to see how it fleshes out.

One of the posters messed with my conflict resolution when they said to leave the WMD's out of the story. How the **** can i do that. Reality is that guys are dying over that freakin lie. Thats a conflict right there dammit!!!!!!!!!!!11

[IWrite]

I think the real conflict is going to be the "war under false pretenses and the death of American young men and women."
This is part of a THEME you are exploring - it is not a story conflict. Even if different characters have different positions on whether the war is just or not this is still not a story conflict. If the plot centered around a character who was involved in the government's decision to go to war or not - then this could be story conflict. If your protagonist stumbled across the lie and then had to make a choice of what to do about it - THEN this would be story conflict. But what you have here is not.

Tell your super natural inspirers to go away - they did their job by giving you the idea. These spirits apparently know nothing about story nor do they appear to know the difference between drama and melodrama. You need to wrest control away from them. You are the writer, not them.

Reality is that guys are dying over that freakin lie. Thats a conflict right there dammit!!!!!!!!!!!11
Again this is NOT story conflict. I have been reading some of your other posts and am trying to get a grip on how much is warped sense of humor, overheated enthusiam and/or how much is ego run amok.

I've noticed you've said alot about the innate ability to tell a story and how that can't be taught - I agree. But I also know that stories require conflict in order to achieve real drama - and it appears you do not innately grasp what conflict is or how to achieve drama. As such I urge you to take the time to learn these things. Innate ability without knowledge of the craft is no different then no ability and no knowledge of the craft at the end of the day.

[scripter1]

I second everything Iwrite is saying.
He's got these story issues of yours nailed down.

Hopefully these articles will help you out a bit more.
http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip210.htm

http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip210.htm

http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip259.htm


http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip196.htm


http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip66.htm


http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip130.htm


You keep talking around and around about all the events in your story, and depending on how well you write them they may or may not improve the script.

But all that is the trimmings and trappings of your script.
It's cosmetic.
You're trying to put paint and carpet in a house that doesn't even have a foundation or a frame.

I am going to disagree with Iwrite on one point. I think you need to let the oozing continue until you've gotten all these ideas and wants out onto the paper. Clear your head and your heart.
You’re focused on this, you feel good about it right now, and I don't see the harm in it. Sometimes you have to make room for new ideas.
You may need to separate your two writing sides, the emotional and the logical.

Then, SET THOSE PAGES ASIDE.
Give them some time to settle and for you to get a little distance from them. During that time do a little more studying about the craft.

Read STORY by McKee and Linda Seger’s Making a good script great.
Also there are very specfic tips by Bill Martell about characters, story choices, creating tension and drama, subplots, set ups and pay offs, etc.
These articles zero in on just one element of the script and so allow you a very targeted look at each of the many elements that go into crafting a solid story.
(I have them filed so if you want a specfic topic I can give you the links to those articles.)

Now, START OVER.
Leave your draft in the drawer but keep those expressed thoughts and feelings in the back of your mind. First you must decide where your conflict lies. Pick one character out of your group and think about how their story and choices will best express your theme and develop the strongest story.

Then work the story out to show the change and growth made to that character brought about by the events of the story.

Let the logical side drive the story now.

When you have a working second draft then go back to your emotional first draft and gently begin blending the two.

NEXT do three or four more rewrites.
By all means post the pages and we'll see if we can help you further.

There is no right or wrong, or industry standard way of building a script. Every writer has their own way and you will have to discover for yourself what that method really is. Think about this and see where it takes you.
Or completely disregard.

Now, I have to admit I am just dying to comment on the political side of your story. My Bush supporting, Brother-in-law in Iraq, Toby Kieth loving self is just chomping at the bit to cut loose.
I won't though. I will exercise restraint because I believe to address those issues will put this thread on the fast track to a lock down and won't achieve anything.
This is a writing board, NOT a politcal forum.

Suffice it to say that there will be plenty of people who will vehemently disagree with your take on the war. Many of those will be the very people you had hoped to touch and your film will only offend them, anger them, or revive their pain.

You can't control what others think and believe but you must prepare in some way for the two edged effects of such a story.

[StephieM]

Conflict is an obstacle a character encounters that keeps him from achieving his/her goal or dramatic need.

Ex:
Girl meets guy, falls in love with guy, finds out guy is married-conflict.
This conflict must be overcome in order for guy and girl to be together.

A group of theives plan to rob a total of three casinos in Las Vegas. They have to get in and out without being noticed.

"Lest we forget, once they succeed, they're still in the middle of the freakin' desert."-conflict

It must be overcome in order to rob the casino and get away with it.

What is your characters' dramatic need? What must they overcome to gain his/her goal.

Famous words from Syd Field
"All drama is conflict. without conflict you have no character; without character you have no action; without action you have no story; and without a story you have no screenplay."

Steph

[Fin!]

One of the posters messed with my conflict resolution when they said to leave the WMD's out of the story. How the **** can i do that. Reality is that guys are dying over that freakin lie. Thats a conflict right there dammit!!!!!!!!!!!11

I guess that was me. :)

I've seen a bunch of Vietnam movies and I don't believe the major conflict of any of them was that the war was injust. If you feel that you need to beat that dead horse then by all means feel free.