A good learning exercise.

[StephieM]

I was thinking of ways to help improve my screenwriting, I don't know I might of read this somewhere, but I can't remember. I thought it would be a good way for me to look at my own mistakes and determine where, what, and how I need to improve. Has anyone ever tried this?

Without reading the script, write out the first ten minutes of any film in script format, then compare it to the real script. Determine how you did. Does it add up? Or are you completely off?

The problem with this, is obviously people have different syles of writing. But in a way it may help in critiquing your own work. If you go over ten pages, you know your adding to much unnecassary info, if your under ten pages, your missing some key elements. You can also compare your writing, how you word things, your action sequence, character discriptions, ect.

Tell me what you think. I'm going to try it out just for fun's sake.

I'll let you know how I did. :)

Steph

[TheRuleofThirds]

The thing is, though, you'd probably be completely off. For instance, if I did this exercise with Minority Report, I wouldn't have guessed that montage at the beginning was actually written out by Scott Frank, but it was. I've seen the original script. (I know that b/c it had more language and different lines).

[maestrowork]

Shooting script and spec script are different, too. What you see on screen has been revised and rewritten and story-boarded and fleshed out with details.

[Joe Calabrese]

Although I would never waste time doing this with many scenes or the whole script, I actually think its a good excerise to do a scene or two from a film and then compare that scene, just to get you into the "visual mode."

Although the scene written by you and the real script will differ due to many reason as already mentioned, it will in the least give you snippets of lines and action to compare how visualness works.

Next to tone and good dialog, the ability to write with a visual sense is extremenly important.

Of course this may not good for everyone and do so, not as a learn by example tool, but as a way of getting a feel of writing based on visual input.

[JERETHAL]

Improve as a screenwriter? I don't think so. I think it's the same with anything- either ya got it or ya don't. Your're born with it. But you can get technically better with practice. Storytelling is a gift. Grammar and punctuation is the thing that takes work.

I never ever ended up with the story i set out to tell. I write outlines before I do anything. I've looked at outlines I wrote before i wrote the story and thought "Wow, did that ever change!"

I even change in the middle of a scene because I got struck by lightning in the middle of a scene. Then i go, "why the hell did I write that, Now what?"

When you get in that visual mode, things change.

I have a notebook I keep in my pocket at all times. Actually several sizes of them because I have different size pockets. I write down thoughts when i think of them. When I want to spice up a character or a plot, I look over my psycho notes. Sometimes i find the perfect line or the perfect incident.
More than anything I use, that helps me the most. A book of famous quotes can be a goldmine as well.

P.S. I'm thinkin about soaking my notebooks in gasoline because I never want them to fall into anybodys hands. That would be terrible. I read them and wonder how I thought of that ****.

[Joe Calabrese]

Improve as a screenwriter? I don't think so. I think it's the same with anything- either ya got it or ya don't. You're born with it. But you can get technically better with practice. Storytelling is a gift. Grammar and punctuation is the thing that takes work.

I couldn't disagree more. Screenwriter is not the same as Storyteller. Yes, the ability to "think" up stories is a gift, but practical application of that gift, "telling" it, is much more involved than just practice.

Practice is only a good way to get better as long as you are going down the right path to begin with. That path are the tools at your disposal, whether they be books, classes, mentors and dissecting other's works, not just for form but function as well and not just becoming technically better with grammar and mechanics. Theory helps you understand why you can tell a good story and help you make it better.

To say you "either ya got it or ya don't" is true, but just because you got it doesn't mean you will ever be able to use it.

[dpaterso]

I'm thinking if I had five bucks for every writer I've seen who blows their own trumpet about how great their ideas are and how wonderful their writing is, I'd be driving a mean set of wheels.

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57/scripts.htm)

[StephieM]

Some good thoughts. Thanks.

Maestro-

I was thinking more of using a first draft script rather than a shooting script. And probally more of a low budget film. Even so, with style differences, I'm sure it won't even come close.

Joe-

Yeah, ten pages would no doubt take a long time. A few scenes or even one would be a better idea. Like you said, it might not work for everyone. Obviously for experienced screenwriters it would be a waste of time. But I thought for newbies like me, it would help us see how a real script compares to our own. But then again, experienced screenwriters have a tendency to break a few rules, which might do us more harm then good. I guess there would be upsides and down sides. Getting the feel of a visual sense would definitely be one of the upsides.

Jer-

"Improve as a screenwriter? I don't think so. I think it's the same with anything- either ya got it or ya don't. Your're born with it. But you can get technically better with practice. Storytelling is a gift. Grammar and punctuation is the thing that takes work."

Have you ever heard of the expression, "practice makes perfect"? Even if you "have it", (which I feel like I do), there is always room for improvement. Writing a screenplay is more than having a good story telling sense. Willing to grow better as a writer, is being able to tell yourself, "yeah, I still need work, I'm not yet where I need to be" and then taking that extra mile to get there.

Grammar and puncuation is something learned in elementary school. Every writer should already have those basic tools. If you don't you're in trouble.
Like Joe said, one of the most important things in screenwriting is having a good visual sense, whatever helps you achieve this, is a good thing, no matter which way you do it. Every writer is different. If writing things down in a little notebook helps you, great, keep doing what your doing. :)

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. It was an idea I had. I wasn't sure if it would work or not. I guess it depends on the writer. I'm still going to try it out though. The worst that could come from it, is a few hours wasted, or I might realize I need more work than I thought. :Sun:

Steph

[JERETHAL]

Hey, the storytellin is the big deal. Format and grammar and sentence structure is what takes practice. You can get better at that with practice. I know great storytellers who can't type, know nothing about format, can't structure a sentence and punctuate like they are throwing darts. If they made the effort to do all that they could be great. On the other hand I know mechanically perfect writers who couldn't tell a good yarn if you showed it to em.

If you can't tell a good story and see it in your minds eye- well, whats the use.

I've sat around the campfire in the backyard many a night with great storytellers. Sometimes an intellectual will grace us with their prescence. Sometimes they even attempt a story. Usually it is pretty dry. But they get a kick out of themselves. But, when a good storyteller is on a roll, other storytellers will interject with brilliant stuff- BECAUSE THEY GOT IT!

I'm not lookin for a fight, but I sit around a fire with some pretty good storytellers. Usually, the story is true, they just tell it great with comments and inject things like personality and motive. What they were thinking while it was happening. Sarcasm. Wit. That stuff is something you're born with.

You can shove format and grammar up your wazoo. Being a better screenwriter doesn't happen by many drafts or format programs. You still need to evoke emotion or I'm going to sleep.

[IWrite]

Without reading the script, write out the first ten minutes of any film in script format, then compare it to the real script. Determine how you did. Does it add up? Or are you completely off?
Actually Steph I think it's a great exercise - I've used it for some of my clients in the past and as an exercise in a class once.

Ten pages is long though - I only did it with one scene - and not necessarily the opening scene.

I do it to help writers get a sense of style etc. Because so much is out of their control - character, content, etc. they can really focus just on the writing itself. How to describe every moment and movement. I normally choose scenes that are visual and action heavy, but I'll include a little dialogue as well to see what the writer's can come up with.

I don't think it's all that much help to an intermediate writer - but it's a good exercise for a true beginner.

[StephieM]

Jer,

Okay, the thread was about me trying to find a way that would better improve my screenwriting and perhaps help others. Perhaps you should look into people's screenwriting abilities before you decide they "don't have it."
I'm not trying to figure out wether or not I'm a good writer, I am trying to improve myself as a writer. Anybody could tell a good story, just yesterday my four year old daughter told a great story about a monster who lived under her bed. Maybe she's got an imagination like her mother, but that doesn't make her a writer, yet. There is more to being a screenwriter than just being able to convey a story you see in your head, and proper grammar and punctuation. There is always something more to learn. Yes, it helps if you have the natural ability to write, but that's not going to help you when you send your script to an agent and he says, "great concept, but I'm not seeing it visually, your character's are walking talking cliches, there's not enough conflict, and your actions are predictable leading to a predictable ending." Until you get that agent, or sell, you must be honest with yourself and assume your just not good enough yet. Otherwise your going nowhere. So if finding ways to help me become a better screenwriter, makes me a better screenwriter, then that will get me one step ahead of you.

No hard feelings. :)

Steph

[StephieM]

IWrite-

Thanks. I'm not crazy after all. :)

[JERETHAL]

Dear Steph,
What we have here is a failure to communicate. Maybe you feel like I slighted you. I didn't intend that. I didn't mean to imply that You "don't have it' either.
I can proudly say that I've never attacked or insulted anybody on the internet.

I understand what you are trying to do. You are looking for better ways to become a better screenwriter. ever seen a movie that sucked from bad acting, bad direction, bad camera angles. I have.

Seinfeld was a stupid show that was great because they could tell a story about nothing in a wonderful way. They always found a way to tell the story in an interesting way. Thats what great storytellers do. It isn't the story, it the storyTELLING. I have the good fortune of knowing greta storytellers who can make you belly laugh about the dumbest thing. If you tried it you'd look stupid. Or anybody would. They can make you laugh, cry, get you angry, inspire you.

It's like if you tried to be a motivational speaker. You could learn mannerisms, mechanics, techniques and read all the books. But if you can't motivate, you won't have much work. To motivate you have to inspire, to inspire you have to stir some emotion. Writing is just like that. Screenwriting is no different than any other writing. Format is different. You want to be a better writer- not a better screenwriter. To be better you have to become a better storyteller. Practice going for emotion. People want to be ENTERTAINED. Thats the key. When you've successfully entertained someone, they know it because they can feel it.

I was merely trying to cdonvey that it helps me to have a storehouse of written things that i can use when i need a wise saying or a funny story, or a country expression, or a witty comment.
If you think of something that creates an emotion in you, write it down. it will evoke an emotion in somebody else. Then they'll be entertained.

I certainly don't want to offend. I want to be a better screenwriter as well.
I write 8 hours a day. I've written six screenplays. I have no computer programs to help me. I hear about such things but never seen or used one.

When i start to think about a story, I make sure that I don't write a word until I've thought about it for at least a week. I tell people what I'm thinking about. I listen. I get input. But most of all, I consult my notebook to see if there is something i can use. Try it, you'll be amazed at the value. During the day, everytime I experience an emotion, I write it down. Angry,happy,silly,horny,jealous,love. what ever caused the emotion. i make a note of it.

My last note in my book says:" I watched this guy on Tv doing an interview. For the whole 30 minutes he sat with his legs crossed like a girl. He was gently stroking his lower leg with his fingertips the whole time. It started to make me think he was pleasuring himself on Tv. Hell, he is!! He's masturbating his freakin leg on TV."

I may never use that. But then, maybe i will. BUT THATS WHY I SAID ABOUT SOAKIN NY NOTEBOOK IN GASOLINE; IN CASE I GOT BURN IT QUICK.

[StephieM]

Jer,

"You want to be a better writer- not a better screenwriter. To be better you have to become a better storyteller."

I think you've confused story telling with story SHOWING, which is what screenwriting is, a screenplay is a story told in pictures.

Screenwriting is far more complicated than just telling a story. Every little piece of information you offer to your reader/audience, every scene, every bit of dialogue, action, and discription, must mean something, it must go somewhere, there must be a connection. These are your tools and they must be learned no matter how well your story telling sense. Anybody could be a good story teller, but that doesn't mean he or she could sit down and whip out a screenplay.

Just because a man is blessed with the ability to build things with his hands doesn't mean he can go out and build the Empire State Building. Building something that big requires certain tools and equipment. In order to be an architect he must learn to use these tools well or else his building will come crumbling down around him the moment he steps into the door.

The same rules apply for screenwriting. In order to build a strong sturdy script that's going to hold up in front of an agent, you better know how to use the tools at your disposal. Having a good story telling sense only gets you so far.

Just like building a house only gets you so far. If you want to be more than just an average carpenter, you better prepare yourself to build the next Taj Mahal, because nothing less than that is going to get you noticed.

I've got the ability to create and build-meaning I know how to tell a story, SHOWING a story is much more difficult. With that said, I'm not yet prepared to construct my Taj Mahal. I'm far from being where I want to be, and I'm not afraid to admit it. Someday I will get there, and that requires to learn how to use the tools at my disposal until I have mastered and perfected every aspect of screenwriting.

Steph :)