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mudbubble
09-30-2009, 08:46 PM
As I understand them so far

1- get thy butt in the chair
2- thou shalt show not tell
3- thou shalt kill the passive
4- Thou shalt know thy audience
5- Revise until thy fingers bleed
6- Covet thy Beta readers
7- Thou shalt not become discouraged by rejection
8- If it works it works, if it doesn’t stone it to death
9- Study thy submission targets
10- Thou shalt not worship techniques because the story is king


others versions?.....

scarletpeaches
09-30-2009, 08:47 PM
Thou Shalt Not Have Any Other Gods Before My Face Excepting Wally Lamb and Kazuo Ishiguro.

DeleyanLee
09-30-2009, 08:49 PM
I only know one writing commandment: Thou Shalt Not Confuse Thy Reader

mudbubble
09-30-2009, 09:19 PM
Nice one DL but perhaps that should read-

Thou Shalt Not Confuse Thy Reader Unintentionally

CaroGirl
09-30-2009, 09:21 PM
Thou shalt not adhere to any commandment absolutely because someday thou might have to break it.

DeleyanLee
09-30-2009, 09:22 PM
Nice one DL but perhaps that should read-

Thou Shalt Not Confuse Thy Reader Unintentionally

I respectfully disagree. Whether the confusion is intentional or unintentional, it's always a bad idea. ;)

willietheshakes
09-30-2009, 09:31 PM
Easy on the hopdoodle...

Dawnstorm
09-30-2009, 09:32 PM
1. Thou shalt not succumb to the lure of simplicistic formulisms such as "show, don't tell."

2. Thou shalt not develop an aversion to elements of your language, such as adverbs or the passive voice.

3. Thou shalt not ask, "is it okay to...?". Instead, thou shalt do it and ask, "Does this work?"

4. Thou shalt experiment a lot, and thou shalt not be discouraged by failure. Rather, thou shalt learn from it.

5. Thou shalt strife to know thyself. Thou shalt not assume what worketh for thy favourite author must needs work for thee.

6. Thou shalt be as critical of your revisions as thou art of the text to-be-revised. Thou shalt keep a copy of the original, in case the original contained elements that worked better than the revision.

7. Thou shalt not belief in The Reader. There are only readers, and they quarrel amongst each other.

8. Thou shalt not covet your favourite authors' success.

9. Thou shalt not begrudge your least favourite authors their success.

10. If thou knowest how do it, thou shalt do something else instead. This be how thou learnest thy craft.

[ETA: Thou shalt not You really shouldn't mix thouh-shalt-not-isms with modernisms, or you get a stylistically lame post, such as mine. :o ]

mudbubble
09-30-2009, 09:49 PM
Dawn Thou shalt learn the craft should've been #2 on my list.......

it is the first of them that I broke...

Freelancer
09-30-2009, 09:51 PM
Thou shalt not give up when you fail
Thou shalt not copy other worlds
Thou shalt not use cliches
Thou shalt not dream about great success, rather try to achieve it

The other commandments of mine are already mentioned above. :)

Wayne K
09-30-2009, 09:52 PM
Thou shalt not bore the crap out of thy reader.

KTC
09-30-2009, 09:53 PM
1. Write More Better.
2. Write More Better.
3. Write More Better.
4. Write More Better.
5. Write More Better.
6. Write More Better.
7. Write More Better.
8. Write More Better.
9. Write More Better.
10. Follow Rules 1 Through 9 More Better.

Cyia
09-30-2009, 10:06 PM
Thou shalt give thy characters a voice and free will to act as they would, not as thou wilst them to act.

Thou shalt make sure threads started in Act 1 are not dropped and forgotten untied by the end.

Thou shalt stone any character who behaves in the manner of a Mary Sue or Gary Stu, for this is an affront to thine readers.

Thou shalt stay in tense.

Thou shalt not use a thesaurus when "said" works just fine.

If thine manuscript disappears into the ultraviolet spectrum of prose, or takes on the look of an overripe eggplant. Thou shalt weed out thine adjectives. (or die ;) )

Thou shalt not pen a manuscript so long it will permanently cripple thy future readers to carry it around.

Thou shalt buy a dictionary and learn the difference between "honest" and "mean". Should the meanie prove to be honest, thou shalt thank them and improve thy manuscript. Should the meanie prove to mean, thou mayest hit him in his head with the overlong MS and send him to the hospital.

Thou shalt not use thy mother nor thy four-year-old as an accurate gage of thy abilities.

Thou shalt not go crazy once thou art published and annoy thy fans with insane rants.

Thou shalt not make the supernatural sparkle, lest thou write of fae and djinn.

Thou shalt follow guidelines; they knowest more than thee.

swvaughn
09-30-2009, 10:23 PM
Thou shalt not make the supernatural sparkle, lest thou write of fae and djinn.

I feel validated. Not even my djinn sparkle. :D

Love your list, Cyia! Especially #8 (gee, wonder whom that could be... :) )

Phaeal
09-30-2009, 10:57 PM
1. Read.
2. Write.
3. Read.
4. Write.
5. Read.
6. Write.
7. Read.
8. Write.
9. Read.
10. Write, write, write, write, write.

Phaeal
09-30-2009, 11:02 PM
And...

11. Thou shalt not use "thou" or "shalt." Not even if you're writing a historical. Not even if you're writing funny lists of "thou shalt nots."

Why? Because they hurts my ears and eyes. K? See thee.

Nateskate
09-30-2009, 11:08 PM
1) I probably won't reach ten!
2) Don't take critics too seriously
3) Find the right critics, ones that don't like to eviscerate people just because they can.
4) Look at life as a growth experience. One setback isn't the end of the world. Listen, ponder. Keep what is useful and discard the rest.
5) I'm done

Strange Days
10-01-2009, 12:43 AM
3-thou shalt kill the passive
...

Disagree with that. When passive voice makes sense- it DOES make sense... I really do not like when in order to avoid passive voice various "they" or mysterious "people" are introduced at random... Passive voice helps you to avoid creating generic characters. As a reader- I hate generic "people" out of nowhere...

Stunted
10-01-2009, 12:46 AM
Everyone's lists thus far have been so good!

Thou shalt write the book that thou wouldst want to read.

Thou shalt love thy work and, when thou doesn'tst, though shalt have faith that you will again soon.

Though shalt expect that writing the first draft of the middle shalt be tough.

Thou shalt read all kinds of books, and read them critically.

Thou shalt experiment to find the right balance of cockiness and humility.

Thou shalt put thine ass in the chair.

If thine ass is beginning to ache and thine labors growing fruitless, thou shalt leave the manuscript for three days and then regroup.

Thou shalt be wary of writing rules.

Thou shalt strive to understand all the rules, nonetheless.

Thou shalt not push thine story in artificial directions.

Thou shalt be aware of your weaknesses and try to improve them.

Thou shalt not become discouraged.

Thou shalt stop philosophizing and get to work.

stormie
10-01-2009, 12:46 AM
Do not call your book a "fiction novel." Ever. World without end. Amen.

Cyia
10-01-2009, 12:55 AM
At some point thou shalt minimize the AW window and actually do some real writing. ;)

mudbubble
10-01-2009, 12:58 AM
Disagree with that. When passive voice makes sense- it DOES make sense... I really do not like when in order to avoid passive voice various "they" or mysterious "people" are introduced at random... Passive voice helps you to avoid creating generic characters. As a reader- I hate generic "people" out of nowhere...

strange days indeed.. Most peculiar...sorry just made myself think of John Lennon for a second there....

perhaps this is only a commandment on my first WIP.. but in reading one of the Uncle Jim recommended links i got this----(and yes he agrees with you at the very end)--

1. Passive voice. This is the single most common error. More people make this mistake, and make it more often, than any other error in the writing of fiction. Let me rephrase that sentence, so as to illustrate the problem: This is the mistake most commonly made in all fiction. Note that in my second rendition, no one makes the mistake. It is simply "made." It is not clear that it is a mistake in writing. You could interpret the second rendition to mean that readers make the mistake. In passive voice, nothing is ever anyone's fault, because people do not do things. Things happen to people. "Irving ate the food" is active. "The food was eaten" is passive. Note that Irving has vanished completely. The food and the action of eating are made more important than the person who does them.
Writers most often drop into passive voice when they are unsure of themselves, when they don't want anything bad to happen to one of their characters, when they don't want their characters to do anything bad.
Remember that you story is all happening on paper. You can change everything later with a stroke of a pen. Don't be afraid. Be bold and adventurous. If you make a mistake, you can fix it later. If you kill a character, you can bring her back to life in the next draft. If your character commits a murder, you can give him a really good lawyer.
Note that passive voice cannot -- and need not -- be completely eliminated. See previous sentence for an example. There are times when it works

panda
10-01-2009, 12:59 AM
Do unto your readers as you would have your readers do unto you.

MGraybosch
10-01-2009, 01:03 AM
1. Read everything you can get your hands on. Don't restrict yourself to your favorite genre. That way lies stagnation.
2. Get your ass in that chair and write.
3. Ignore everybody who tells you you can't do it -- including the voices in your head.
4. If you're going to break a style rule, like "show, don't tell", you'd better have a damned good reason.
5. Be selective in what you show. Tell the reader only what you need him to know in order to make the story and characters work.
6. Avoid naturalism. If your only reason for showing a particular detail is that "real life is like that", then get a better reason or get rid of that detail.
7. Tropes are not cliches. Learn to distinguish between the two.
8. Remember Chekhov's law: If you're going to show a gun on the mantel, make sure a major character has an in-character reason to fire that gun.
9. Leave the thesaurus on the shelf unless you're beating a particular word into the ground.
10. Plot and characterization are what matter most. Everything else should be subordinate to your plot and characters.
11. Keep your facts and your terminology straight. If your story needs research, then suck it up and do the damn research.

seun
10-01-2009, 01:06 AM
1. Read a lot.
2. Write a lot.
3. Give me a neckrub.

Phaeal
10-01-2009, 01:19 AM
How about a Vulcan nerve pinch instead?

MattW
10-01-2009, 01:29 AM
Do unto your characters as you would not wish upon any real person.

MGraybosch
10-01-2009, 01:32 AM
Do unto your characters as you would not wish upon any real person.

That really narrows my options. I've wished AIDS, cancer, irritable bowel syndrome, and pubic lice on people who have annoyed me.

dahlfan
10-01-2009, 01:57 AM
Thou Shalt Read More Than Write

cscarlet
10-01-2009, 02:00 AM
I'm shalting all over the place.

panda
10-01-2009, 02:02 AM
There needs to be more smoting in this thread.

job
10-01-2009, 02:08 AM
1. Thou shalt not succumb to the lure of simplicistic formulisms such as "show, don't tell."

and all the rest.

Yes!!!

scarletpeaches
10-01-2009, 02:38 AM
That really narrows my options. I've wished AIDS, cancer, irritable bowel syndrome, and pubic lice on people who have annoyed me.I once told someone I'd love to tie them to a chair in a soundproof room with Mariah Carey's greatest hits on a loop.

MGraybosch
10-01-2009, 02:46 AM
I once told someone I'd love to tie them to a chair in a soundproof room with Mariah Carey's greatest hits on a loop.

You can do better than that. Next time, threaten to strap them down and make them watch Barney or listen to this album:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XP7Q6BASL._SS500_.jpg

ricmic
10-01-2009, 05:17 AM
Two more rules:

When you consider writing guidelines, consider yourself the rule and not the exception.

And: Your need to have people read your work is greater than their want to read it. (So, make them want it hard!)

These two keep my head bowed to the page instead of high in the clouds.

MGraybosch
10-01-2009, 05:23 AM
Two more rules:

When you consider writing guidelines, consider yourself the rule and not the exception.

And: Your need to have people read your work is greater than their want to read it. (So, make them want it hard!)

These two keep my head bowed to the page instead of high in the clouds.

Or, to put it more succinctly: You are not entitled to an audience. :)

Matera the Mad
10-01-2009, 06:10 AM
Thou shalt respect thy readers intelligence (or at least allow for the possibility of its existence)

Thou shalt not worship thine own cleverness, nor shalt thou make a false idol of Inspiration

Thou shalt not whine that thou art not understood, but thou shalt strive to make thy words clear unto all

...off the top o' me head

Strange Days
10-01-2009, 06:16 AM
Oh, I agree with most of the thing Uncle Jim says, don't get me wrong! His advice was a great help to me. And that extract about passive voice makes perfect sense. But, again, sentense like "...In the course of these years many assumptions were made, many theories were offered to public..." Active voice will lead to imagining random and irrelevant folks (journalists, pundits, idiots, etc) who supposedly offered those theories and made assumptions. As for John Lennon- I don't mind a slight parallel to him- I absolutely loved "Spaniard in Works", to be fair...

Mara
10-02-2009, 09:59 PM
From my experience writing non-fiction:

1. Write clearly. (In this spirit, I won't use archaic english. Funny for a joke, but not very readable.)

2. Know all the rules and guidelines.

3. Break rules and guidelines only when you have a good reason. "I'm non-conformist" and "I'm brilliant" are never good reasons unless you're already a successful writer. If you're new, you're probably confusing "creative and non-conformist" with "inexperienced, ignorant, and too lazy to learn how to write correctly."

4. You should probably forget everything you learned writing papers in high school. Padding out a page count with convoluted sentences and long words is bad writing. (People with Ph.D.s in history should be forced to write this on a blackboard 10 times a day while writing books.)

5. Read books and websites for writers. Remember that all writers are different, and we offer advice based on our personal guidelines as commands to novices. You can ignore unhelpful "commands" unless most of the writers are in agreement. (In other words, you can ignore things like "Write at these hours each day, sitting at your kitchen, facing west.")

ricmic
10-03-2009, 09:11 AM
Or, to put it more succinctly: You are not entitled to an audience. :)

Exactly. And well put.

ricmic

Raphee
10-03-2009, 09:22 AM
Elmore Leonard produced a list of 11 rules for writing:

1, Never open a book with weather.
2, Avoid prologues.
3, Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
4, Never use an adverb to modify the verb "said”…he admonished gravely.
5, Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.
6, Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose."
7, Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
8, Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
9, Don't go into great detail describing places and things.
10,Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip.

The most important rule is one that sums up the 10.

11, If it sounds like writing, I rewrite it.

Raphee
10-03-2009, 09:28 AM
I'll follow up with Orwell's advise. I forget the source of this, so forgive me in advance:


1. Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.

This sounds easy, but in practice is incredibly difficult. Phrases such as toe the line, ride roughshod over, stand shoulder to shoulder with, play into the hands of, an axe to grind, Achilles’ heel, swan song, and hotbed come to mind quickly and feel comforting and melodic.

For this exact reason they must be avoided. Common phrases have become so comfortable that they create no emotional response. Take the time to invent fresh, powerful images.

2. Never use a long word where a short one will do.

Long words don’t make you sound intelligent unless used skillfully. In the wrong situation they’ll have the opposite effect, making you sound pretentious and arrogant. They’re also less likely to be understood and more awkward to read.

When Hemingway was criticized by Faulkner for his limited word choice he replied:

Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don’t know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use.

3. If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.

Great literature is simply language charged with meaning to the utmost possible degree (Ezra Pound). Accordingly, any words that don’t contribute meaning to a passage dilute its power. Less is always better. Always.

4. Never use the passive where you can use the active.

This one is frequently broken, probably because many people don’t know the difference between active and passive verbs. I didn’t myself until a few months ago. Here is an example that makes it easy to understand:

The man was bitten by the dog. (passive)The dog bit the man. (active).The active is better because it’s shorter and more forceful.

5. Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.

This is tricky because much of the writing published on the internet is highly technical. If possible, remain accessible to the average reader. If your audience is highly specialized this is a judgment call. You don’t want to drag on with unnecessary explanation, but try to help people understand what you’re writing about. You want your ideas to spread right?

6. Break any of these rules sooner than saying anything outright barbarous.

This bonus rule is a catch all. Above all, be sure to use common sense.These rules are easy to memorize but difficult to apply. The key is effort.

Raphee
10-03-2009, 09:31 AM
Since I'm on a roll here, I'll carry on with Vonnegut.

Kurt Vonnegut: Eight rules for writing fiction:

1. Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted.

2. Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for.

3. Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.

4. Every sentence must do one of two things -- reveal character or advance the action.

5. Start as close to the end as possible.

6. Be a sadist. Now matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them -- in order that the reader may see what they are made of.

7. Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.

8. Give your readers as much information as possible as soon as possible. To heck with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages.

panda
10-03-2009, 10:09 AM
Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don’t know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use.

I agree with Hemingway, I think Faulkner's writing sounds like a spambot wrote it.

Never open a book with weather.

But it's so nice outside, lol.

willietheshakes
10-03-2009, 12:22 PM
Elmore Leonard produced a list of 11 rules for writing:

1, Never open a book with weather.
2, Avoid prologues.
3, Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
4, Never use an adverb to modify the verb "said”…he admonished gravely.
5, Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.
6, Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose."
7, Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
8, Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
9, Don't go into great detail describing places and things.
10,Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip.

The most important rule is one that sums up the 10.

11, If it sounds like writing, I rewrite it.

Hence my earlier reference to "easy on the hopdoodle".

blacbird
10-03-2009, 12:30 PM
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF WRITING

1. Thou shalt not, for to do so setteth thy feet upon the road to ruination.
2. Should thee commit the violation of the preceding Commandment, thou shalt not seek publication, for the seeking of such betrayeth avarice, and lack of purity, and setteth thy feet upon the road to ruination.
3. Thou shalt not aspire, for aspiration constituteth the root of all evil and setteth thy feet upon the road to ruination..
4. Thou shalt have no expectation, there being no virtue in possessing such, which only serveth to set thy feet upon the road to ruination.
5. Thou shalt not seek representation for thy writing by any agent, for to do so shall only subject thy work to ridicule, and set thy feet upon the road to ruination.
6. Thou shalt write for thine own self only, and for no other person shalt thou write, for such setteth thy feet upon the road to ruination.
7. Thou shalt write about elves and wizards and dragons only, no other creatures shalt thou write about, for to do so setteth thy feet upon the road to ruination.
8. Thou shalt read no work by Robert Ludlum, for to do so shall call into question the validity of any of thine unpublishable writing, and set thy feet upon the road to ruination.
9. Honor thy father and mother, who told thee never to attempt to become a writer, which could only set thy feet upon the road to ruination.
10. Thou shalt persist down the road to ruination.

caw

scarletpeaches
10-03-2009, 12:49 PM
Oh blacbird, I mean this most sincerely when I say...

STFU.

If you're that bad, stop. I mean it. JUST STOP. Don't write. If it makes you miserable YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN WHEN YOU CARRY ON DOING IT.

It's like sticking your hand on a hot stove and whining, "Duh, this hurts."

DON'T DO IT.

AnonymousWriter
10-03-2009, 01:03 PM
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF WRITING

1. Thou shalt not, for to do so setteth thy feet upon the road to ruination.
2. Should thee commit the violation of the preceding Commandment, thou shalt not seek publication, for the seeking of such betrayeth avarice, and lack of purity, and setteth thy feet upon the road to ruination.
3. Thou shalt not aspire, for aspiration constituteth the root of all evil and setteth thy feet upon the road to ruination..
4. Thou shalt have no expectation, there being no virtue in possessing such, which only serveth to set thy feet upon the road to ruination.
5. Thou shalt not seek representation for thy writing by any agent, for to do so shall only subject thy work to ridicule, and set thy feet upon the road to ruination.
6. Thou shalt write for thine own self only, and for no other person shalt thou write, for such setteth thy feet upon the road to ruination.
7. Thou shalt write about elves and wizards and dragons only, no other creatures shalt thou write about, for to do so setteth thy feet upon the road to ruination.
8. Thou shalt read no work by Robert Ludlum, for to do so shall call into question the validity of any of thine unpublishable writing, and set thy feet upon the road to ruination.
9. Honor thy father and mother, who told thee never to attempt to become a writer, which could only set thy feet upon the road to ruination.
10. Thou shalt persist down the road to ruination.

caw

:sleepy:

motormind
10-03-2009, 06:03 PM
Thou shalt not makes senseless lists about how to write.

motormind
10-03-2009, 06:33 PM
Oh blacbird, I mean this most sincerely when I say...

STFU.

If you're that bad, stop. I mean it. JUST STOP. Don't write. If it makes you miserable YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN WHEN YOU CARRY ON DOING IT.

It's like sticking your hand on a hot stove and whining, "Duh, this hurts."

DON'T DO IT.

On the contrary. I'd say: continue with what you're doing, blacbird. I find works by mangled, tortured, self-doubting, depressed souls the most intriguing to read. At least it often makes for some nice, dark humor. Happiness is boring!

IdiotsRUs
10-03-2009, 06:35 PM
Rule number one: Write


Everything else is arguable

ChaosTitan
10-03-2009, 07:28 PM
Rule number one: Write


Idiots got this one off the bat. None of the other rules matter if you aren't plunking your arse down into a chair and writing. Wanting to write doesn't count. Writing counts.

1. Thou shalt not succumb to the lure of simplicistic formulisms such as "show, don't tell."

2. Thou shalt not develop an aversion to elements of your language, such as adverbs or the passive voice.

3. Thou shalt not ask, "is it okay to...?". Instead, thou shalt do it and ask, "Does this work?"

4. Thou shalt experiment a lot, and thou shalt not be discouraged by failure. Rather, thou shalt learn from it.

5. Thou shalt strife to know thyself. Thou shalt not assume what worketh for thy favourite author must needs work for thee.

6. Thou shalt be as critical of your revisions as thou art of the text to-be-revised. Thou shalt keep a copy of the original, in case the original contained elements that worked better than the revision.

7. Thou shalt not belief in The Reader. There are only readers, and they quarrel amongst each other.

8. Thou shalt not covet your favourite authors' success.

9. Thou shalt not begrudge your least favourite authors their success.

10. If thou knowest how do it, thou shalt do something else instead. This be how thou learnest thy craft.


I love this list.

Love. It.

Or, to put it more succinctly: You are not entitled to an audience. :)

Ding, ding, ding!

blacbird
10-04-2009, 08:17 AM
Oh blacbird, I mean this most sincerely when I say...

STFU.

If you're that bad, stop. I mean it. JUST STOP. Don't write. If it makes you miserable YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN WHEN YOU CARRY ON DOING IT.

It's like sticking your hand on a hot stove and whining, "Duh, this hurts."

DON'T DO IT.

McPeaches,

First, you know, from many of my previous posts, that I admire you greatly. In that context:

Tell me this after your 100th rejection. Tell me this after the 50th form-rejection which indicates nobody even wants to read your work. Tell me this after the 50th time you get a "we don't know how to sell this" rejection.

Point being, I now write, because I can't not, but it's pretty impaired writing, because I also can't fathom any "market" for anything I'm capable of writing. Which means, simply, that for all intents and practical purposes, what I write, what I have the capacity to write, is useless drivel. I don't want to write the next great dragon-elf-wizard-quest novel or story. I don't have a clue where to submit anything anymore.

I once entertained the hallucination that I could write stuff that would entertain an audience of readers. It took a long time, but I have now been thoroughly disavowed of that delusion. Accordingly, I respond to some of the more naive/disingenuous posts here with a bit of an edge.

It's a dirty job, but hey, somebody has to do it. Perhaps that's my destiny in the writing universe.

caw

Raphee
10-05-2009, 11:11 AM
McPeaches,

First, you know, from many of my previous posts, that I admire you greatly. In that context:

Tell me this after your 100th rejection. Tell me this after the 50th form-rejection which indicates nobody even wants to read your work. Tell me this after the 50th time you get a "we don't know how to sell this" rejection.

Point being, I now write, because I can't not, but it's pretty impaired writing, because I also can't fathom any "market" for anything I'm capable of writing. Which means, simply, that for all intents and practical purposes, what I write, what I have the capacity to write, is useless drivel. I don't want to write the next great dragon-elf-wizard-quest novel or story. I don't have a clue where to submit anything anymore.

I once entertained the hallucination that I could write stuff that would entertain an audience of readers. It took a long time, but I have now been thoroughly disavowed of that delusion. Accordingly, I respond to some of the more naive/disingenuous posts here with a bit of an edge.

It's a dirty job, but hey, somebody has to do it. Perhaps that's my destiny in the writing universe.

caw

Now I understand where you are coming from, finally.
I love the edge.

dgiharris
10-05-2009, 01:15 PM
The Story is king

Serve the story in the best way...

No matter how cool, wonderful, neat, etc. etc. something is, if it doesn't help the story, TAKE IT OUT.

Mel...

Prozyan
10-05-2009, 03:47 PM
1-get thy butt in the chair


2 through 10 can just say "See #1".

HConn
10-08-2009, 11:48 PM
1. Be interesting.
2. Be interesting.
3. Be interesting.
4. Be interesting.
5. Be interesting.
6. Be interesting.
7. Be interesting.
8. Be interesting.
9. Be interesting.
10. Be interesting.

There is no other rule than this.

Blacbird, I had 100 form rejections in my rejection box well over a decade ago. I have several hundred now, and none of them are "We don't know how to sell this" rejections. They're pretty much all forms.

Take a look at my signature and userpic. A hundred rejections is nothing more than a good start.

Good luck to you.

Mr Unstable
10-09-2009, 03:19 AM
strange days indeed.. Most peculiar...sorry just made myself think of John Lennon for a second there....

Hey, you made me think of John Lennon too!

motormind
10-09-2009, 12:04 PM
1. Be interesting.
2. Be interesting.
3. Be interesting.
4. Be interesting.
5. Be interesting.
6. Be interesting.
7. Be interesting.
8. Be interesting.
9. Be interesting.
10. Be interesting.


That's not a particularly interesting list .

Another rule I just concocted: read, then write.
If you have to choose between reading or writing, always write first.

RainbowDragon
10-09-2009, 12:29 PM
It's a dirty job, but hey, somebody has to do it. Perhaps that's my destiny in the writing universe.

caw

Maybe, but personally I hope you get published when you least expect it, and have a phenomenal career. It would serve you right.

:)

Kitty27
10-09-2009, 12:40 PM
1. Thou shall not be a hater towards fellow writers.

2. Thou shall plant thy ass in a chair and write.

3. Thou shall not second guess thyself.

4. Thou shall develop a hide thicker than a rhino encased in leather.

5. Thou shall believe in thyself and not use eight hundred hours for editing/research instead of writing.

6. Thou shall not allow others to impair/block/hate on the dream of becoming a writer.

7.Thou shall check those who violate #6 with no mercy. After a polite warning,a firm slap is permissible.

8. Thou shall accept helpful advice and good critiques with a smile and thank you,not screech like a pissed off meerkat.

9. Thou shall assume a positive attitude and not go round unpleasant and full of negativity.

10. Thou shall be not be driven by trends. To thine own path and story,always be true.

kidcharlemagne
10-09-2009, 03:40 PM
Thou shalt not procrastinate (although you probably will)

kidcharlemagne
10-09-2009, 03:42 PM
Thou shalt accept the reality that, in all probability, in oder to get a YES you will need to get many NO's

motormind
10-09-2009, 05:39 PM
Thou shalt accept the reality that, in all probability, in oder to get a YES you will need to get many NO's

And thou shalt accept that a YES may be unattainable.

kidcharlemagne
10-09-2009, 05:47 PM
And thou shalt accept that a YES may be unattainable.

And in this dark hour thou shalt accept professional councelling and prodigious amounts of medication. ;)

Dawnstorm
10-09-2009, 08:03 PM
And in this dark hour thou shalt accept professional councelling and prodigious amounts of medication. ;)

I prescribe writing therapy instead.

HConn
10-09-2009, 08:42 PM
That's not a particularly interesting list.

It's not the list that has to hold a reader's interest.

motormind
10-09-2009, 09:13 PM
It's not the list that has to hold a reader's interest.

True. For that you have to use sex and violence.

ChaosTitan
10-09-2009, 09:49 PM
True. For that you have to use sex and violence.

I appreciate that you were going for the clever one-liner here, but as lengthy, past debates on this forum have clearly shown, sex and violence are just as likely to make some readers put the book back down. ;)

James81
10-09-2009, 10:01 PM
And I say unto you:

Thou shalt love the books with all your heart. This is the first commandment.

Love thy reader as thyself. This is the second commandment.

Upon these two commandments, hinge all the law.

motormind
10-10-2009, 02:52 AM
I appreciate that you were going for the clever one-liner here, but as lengthy, past debates on this forum have clearly shown, sex and violence are just as likely to make some readers put the book back down. ;)

You mean readers who are not writers. Sex sells. At least, it does with me, but I guess that tells more about me than I wish to ;)

HConn
10-10-2009, 03:26 AM
I appreciate that you were going for the clever one-liner here, but as lengthy, past debates on this forum have clearly shown, sex and violence are just as likely to make some readers put the book back down. ;)

Poor devils.

motormind
10-10-2009, 01:50 PM
The one topping the list should be, at least in my view:
"This above all: to thine own self be true"

Ol' Shakey telling it just as it is!

mekolo_diesne
10-12-2009, 02:02 AM
Shakespeare Rules!

Paul
10-12-2009, 02:33 AM
1. Thou shalt not succumb to the lure of simplicistic formulisms such as "show, don't tell."

2. Thou shalt not develop an aversion to elements of your language, such as adverbs or the passive voice.

3. Thou shalt not ask, "is it okay to...?". Instead, thou shalt do it and ask, "Does this work?"

4. Thou shalt experiment a lot, and thou shalt not be discouraged by failure. Rather, thou shalt learn from it.

5. Thou shalt strife to know thyself. Thou shalt not assume what worketh for thy favourite author must needs work for thee.

6. Thou shalt be as critical of your revisions as thou art of the text to-be-revised. Thou shalt keep a copy of the original, in case the original contained elements that worked better than the revision.

7. Thou shalt not belief in The Reader. There are only readers, and they quarrel amongst each other.

8. Thou shalt not covet your favourite authors' success.

9. Thou shalt not begrudge your least favourite authors their success.

10. If thou knowest how do it, thou shalt do something else instead. This be how thou learnest thy craft.

[ETA: Thou shalt not You really shouldn't mix thouh-shalt-not-isms with modernisms, or you get a stylistically lame post, such as mine. :o ]


What he said
Plus
1. Thou shalt woe (i mean woo, honest) potential lovers by casually mentioning the 'novel you are working on'
2. Thou shalt carry your laptop into public places at all times whilst wearing a courdroy jacket and t-shirt/jeans combo
3. Thou shalt quote Joyce, Proust and Beckett in that order. (Least profound first - golden rule. If they're still listening, they're hooked.)
4. Thou shalt sigh audibly at different moments, now and again throwing a quill / pen with anger onto a hardened surface.
5. Thou shalt look upon the coffee bill with barely concealed contempt, then loudly resign yourself to the indignity of paying it.

(more anon)

Paul
10-12-2009, 02:47 AM
Since I'm on a roll here, I'll carry on with Vonnegut.

Kurt Vonnegut: Eight rules for writing fiction:

1. Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted.

2. Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for.

3. Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.

4. Every sentence must do one of two things -- reveal character or advance the action.

5. Start as close to the end as possible.

6. Be a sadist. Now matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them -- in order that the reader may see what they are made of.

7. Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.

8. Give your readers as much information as possible as soon as possible. To heck with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages.

What he said, 'cept for no. 8 no suspense? Whatss'eonabourrtt?


5a. T.S always abbreviate

6.TS always carry a slim volume of poetry with you at all times. SLIM mind.
7.TS always refuse to read/ go to any theatre. At all. Ever.
8.TS Refer to your 'art', as others might refer to their jobs/children
9. TS admit Stephen King is a damn good writer, (though never in a public arena)
10. TS refuse to discuss Shakespeare. At all costs.