"Frame" stories

[maestrowork]

Do you like them, hate them or are you indifferent?

Do they distract from the main story? Or do you think they add layers to the main story?

Do you think the framing story should be as important (or more) than the main story, since the frame is what concludes the novel?

What kind of framing stories you enjoyed in the past? And why?


For those who don't know what a "frame" is: it's a story, apart from the main story (although they can be closely related), that is in the beginning and end of the novel. E.g. in the Notebook, the story of the old man reading to his wife.

p.s. I'm thinking of turning the ending of my WIP into a frame (instead of just Part III) but I wonder if it's a good idea...

[barbilarry]

God knows I'm not qualified to answer many questions. On This one, I do know what I like(although I didn't know what it was called) and I do like framing. I love stories that go backward like you said. For me, it sort of guarantees, that my take on the work was like the authors. I hope you understand what I mean. Another thing I'm not good at is explaining how I feel about something. LOL. I'm sure other people will be along that can answer your question better than I. Keep in mind that I tried, anyway.

Jane

[mscelina]

Frame stories don't bother me unless they're done poorly. It gives the story perspective and depth beyond the action of the plot because in my mind, a story is told after the plot is already concluded nine point nine times out of ten.

[Juliette Wade]

The October 2009 issue of Analog had a great frame story by Mike Flynn called "Where the Winds Are All Asleep," where the frame was that of an Irish pub and the story within it was told by one of the people at the pub. I thought it was successful because the pub environment had a lot of great voice and inherent interest, and Flynn was able to tie the pub stuff together really well with the content of the framed story, too. That allowed him to add a sense of humor too, to a story that was inherently quite spooky and dark.

I know it's not a novel, but it's still a cool example of framing, to my mind.

[Kitty Pryde]

I love the frame story in the Princess Bride (novel, not movie! mini-Fred Savage is too annoying). I actually believed the frame story was true for a while. LOL!

There are two books, the first is Cities of Coin and Spice, I think, that are ALL frame story: a bunch of sequential stories, and each story is the frame story for the following story. Pretty neat. THough doesn't really relate to your issue :)

With what you're talking about, I would think you would need to frame it at the beginning and the end, not just the end. The only problem is to make the beginning interesting even though it's the frame story and intrinsically less interesting than the bulk of the story.

[Ken]

... if I understand the term, correctly, I like frames and use them myself, sometimes. They allow stories to end more gently, similar to winding down after a jog and walking around a track for a bit afterwards to let the muscles relax. There's also an aesthetic quality about frames that gives stories with them a nice ring and sense of completion. There is a caveat, though. Frames have an artificiality about them, and while this is perfectly fine for some types of novels, they will feel a bit contrived in others, especially in realistic novels. So it really depends on what sort of novel you are writing and your general approach.

[raburrell]

I adore a good frame story - Kitty mentioned a great one, and Canterbury Tales is (in my mind) the classic example.

They can be devils to write, partly for the reason mscelina mentioned - you can presume the action has already happened, and if the storyteller is part of the story itself, you know he/she came through the event. If you're aiming for anything suspenseful, there needs to be a means to retain tension.

[shethinkstoomuch]

As long as they are well done, frame stories are fine by me. Beneath a Marble Sky by John Shors has a good frame story. The way he wrote it, the narrator started telling her grandchildren the story. It worked well for the novel.

Like Kitty Pryde, I think you'll probably need to frame at the beginning as well.

[Lady Ice]

I love frame stories as you can see the effect of the main story on the characters(s). I have two frames in one of my stories.

[Lisa Cox]

Huh. Learn something new every day.

[maestrowork]

Some "frames" I really enjoyed (some of them are movies, not books):

Cinema Paradiso -- the well-known director returns to his hometown after being away for 30 years. The bulk of the story is what happened 30 years ago. The end frame is especially poignant.

Princess Bride -- the grandfather/grandson frame adds a contemporary feel and warmth to the fantastical main story

The Kite Runner (movie) -- the frame is grown-up Amir going back to Afghanistan to search for a boy. The main story is his childhood with his best friend Hassan. I actually prefer the straightforward, frameless storytelling in the book, but I think the frame in the movie works, too.

The Reader (movie) -- again, there's a frame in the movie that is not in the book, but it works very well because it introduces the grown-up MC immediately.

Doctor Zhivago - the frame is the general looking for his niece. The main story is about Yuri and Lara. Personally, I think the frame is good but may be unnecessary (because the frame really isn't all that interesting -- it just ties things up).

It seems that the frames that work for me usually are nostalgic stories or the main story takes the MC "back in time" and then the story concludes back in present time. Or in the case of the Princess Bride, it's a fairytale framed by a "real" story.

I'm just curious about what others think. My WIP would fit in the former category (current time=frame, back in time=main)

[maestrowork]

p.s. yes I know the frame has to be at the beginning, too - thus, the term "frame."

By this:

p.s. I'm thinking of turning the ending of my WIP into a frame (instead of just Part III) but I wonder if it's a good idea...


I'm saying I would have to write a new beginning that would tie back to the PART III of the book to make it a frame.

[DWSTXS]

Here is my pretty much non-answer.

If I knew it was a 'frame' story up front, I probably wouldn't bother reading it. On the other hand, the few 'good' books that I've read that were set in a frame, I liked.

Yeah, I know, that was no help at all, right? LOL

[Lady Ice]

You could use a prologue if you wanted :)

My frame is a man on the film set of a film, which acts as a frame for his disasterous relationship with his playwright son, which acts as a frame for his grevious past mistake.

[maestrowork]

If I knew it was a 'frame' story up front, I probably wouldn't bother reading it. On the other hand, the few 'good' books that I've read that were set in a frame, I liked.

Why wouldn't you read it? IMWTK.

And at what point would you realize it's a frame? Obviously, if the story starts with an old man reading to a boy, and then it shifts to the fairytale, you would know by then that's it was a frame story. And would you continue to read on?

[maestrowork]

You could use a prologue if you wanted :)

My frame is a man on the film set of a film, which acts as a frame for his disasterous relationship with his playwright son, which acts as a frame for his grevious past mistake.

Since I'm going to end the book in present time, I'd rather not have a prologue. My thought is either start from the past and end in the present, or have a frame of the present.

[LAWolf]

Most of the most memorable novels in my opinion could be classified as frame stories.

Wuthering Heights, A Prayer for Owen Meany, The People of the Book all were memorable and well executed in my opinion as frames.

[maestrowork]

The English Patient is sort of a frame story, too.

[swvaughn]

I don't mind frames (if they don't suck :D)

Stephen King's The Green Mile is a frame story. There were a few more scenes outside the beginning and end frame interspersed through the story, but most of it was set in the past, with the MC in a nursing home telling the story to a new friend.

Because the frame scenes mirrored some of the past scenes, it worked well to have them inserted in the narrative and made it so they didn't interrupt the story flow.

[CACTUSWENDY]

Ray, or anyone else, would a frame story also be where someone starts a story and takes you back in time for the main one, then at the end you find out they, the person that is telling the story, dies?

If so, that has been done a lot. The reader does not know this until the end and assumes the 'teller' makes it until the reader finds out he is dead.

[maestrowork]

Ray, or anyone else, would a frame story also be where someone starts a story and takes you back in time for the main one, then at the end you find out they, the person that is telling the story, dies?

If so, that has been done a lot. The reader does not know this until the end and assumes the 'teller' makes it until the reader finds out he is dead.

You mean the teller has already died, or the teller will eventually die at the end of the story?

[katiemac]

Ray, or anyone else, would a frame story also be where someone starts a story and takes you back in time for the main one, then at the end you find out they, the person that is telling the story, dies?

If so, that has been done a lot. The reader does not know this until the end and assumes the 'teller' makes it until the reader finds out he is dead.

Yeah, the whole 'let me tell you a story on my deathbed' tale? Like Curious Case of Benjamin Button or Edward Scissorhands or something (although Winona wasn't on her deathbed in that one... Still.)

I don't dislike frame stories as a rule or anything, and sometimes they're done quite well, but other times I find myself impatient with them. Half the time you don't know that what you're picking up is a frame story until you read the first page, and if what prompted you to want to pick up the book in the first place is the framed story and not the frame itself, then it could potentially be a bit frustrating. I completely adore The Green Mile, for example, always have, but I am always a little frustrated with the sections when old Paul in the frame narrates his time in the nursing home because all I want to do is get back to the story that takes place on the Mile. In this case, though, the frame story has an excellent purpose so I accept it.

But then in something like The Prestige, for example, I really don't care for that frame story at all and I think the film did the whole story better justice by leaving it out.

If you go this way, the frame has to be just as meaningful and interesting as the framed story, and must enhance the framed story in an important way instead of simply decorating it.

[maestrowork]

I kind of find the frame of Benjamin Button annoying. I know, I know, the relationship thing with the mother and daughter (and the reveal of the daughter's relationship with Benjamin) is important, but I find that frame story slow, intrusive, and not at all interesting. Like you said, whenever they showed the mother in death bed, I wanted to fast-forward to the main story again. Move on, already. (Partially because right from the beginning I already knew who Julia Ormond's character was -- so the frame story became rather tedious.)

But that's not the kind of frame story I'm thinking of writing...

[Brutal Mustang]

I'm writing a frame, in which my characters discover an ancient diary. My characters (and the readers) know how part of the story ends, because they see the historical evidence in a museum at the beginning of the story.

[MumblingSage]

While I don't mind frames, I often get impatient with them if they run too long. I'm reading the book for the main story, the good stuff mentioned on the back cover blurb, and I want to get to it fast. The only frame story I really remember enjoying was the one in Patrick Rothfuss' The Name of the Wind, and that was because my favorite character only appeared there. Kickass characters trump plot for me, I guess, but I find frames like the Notebook's rather dull (the same characters fifty years older are not kickass).

[aadams73]

I love a well-done frame story, just as I love a well-done story without. Right now, the first that springs to mind is The Historian. In that particular story, the two pieces are intertwined. To me a good frame story is one in which those pieces are intertwined for very specific purpose that must become clear in the end.

[scarletpeaches]

I've tried reading that book twice, lost the thread before p.100 both times. I think it's the sort of novel I'd have to read alone, without any others on my 'current' pile, so I could concentrate and keep the timejumping straight in my mind.

[aadams73]

The Historian? Yeah, it's a lot of work. You need time and quiet. It's not one easily enjoyed in small bites.

[Jenan Mac]

I love the frame story in the Princess Bride (novel, not movie! mini-Fred Savage is too annoying). I actually believed the frame story was true for a while. LOL!

There are two books, the first is Cities of Coin and Spice, I think, that are ALL frame story: a bunch of sequential stories, and each story is the frame story for the following story. Pretty neat. THough doesn't really relate to your issue :)

With what you're talking about, I would think you would need to frame it at the beginning and the end, not just the end. The only problem is to make the beginning interesting even though it's the frame story and intrinsically less interesting than the bulk of the story.

I was about to mention Princess Bride, though I figured someone would have beat me to it. Little Big Man's another which hasn't been mentioned.

Actually, unless they're done poorly, I like the concept most of the time.

[JoNightshade]

I think when they're done well, they work nicely. Like any other device or structure, it's as good as the writing and the intention. I think the real question is whether your story is better or worse with the frame narrative.

Also, I just have to put this out there: I HATED the Princess Bride frame. It was tolerable in the movie; I hated it in the book. This might have been because I was a kid when I read it and I thought it was "real" and I got totally pissed off at the grandfather/grandson for skipping over all the "boring" bits. When I found out it wasn't real, I just felt cheated.

[Stunted]

I love the frame story in the Princess Bride (novel, not movie! mini-Fred Savage is too annoying). I actually believed the frame story was true for a while. LOL!

WAIT! ...I'm so confused. What? Is...is there no non-edited version of the novel? Ah! What? Is the thing with the love scene all a joke? WHAT? Ah! I need to pick it up again! That's amazing.

No, but I think that frame stories are really classy when they're done well. I'd like to write one like that at some point.

[Raphee]

The English Patient is sort of a frame story, too.

It is definitely a frame, and I actually loved the book.

I am not sure if the Kite Runner qualifies to be a frame. The book starts with Amir and Hasan and moves forward in time. The end and everything in between is only the continuation of Amir's story leading to the resolution of the start.

I recently read White Tiger by Adviga Adiago (I hope the spellings are correct), where the writer frames his story in a letter to the Premier of China. That is a skilfully created frame, where the letter creates the opportunity for the writer to explore themes and tell his story also.

To your question: I have nothing against frames. They must have a reason, and they must contribute to the book/writing, not necessarily the story, in someway.
What I'm trying to say is that frames allow the writer to explore something else that is connected to the story but not a part of it, add layers, or use a second voice/character.
I might have this wrong, but this is what I have experienced from my reading.

[gp101]

Cinema Paradiso -- the well-known director returns to his hometown after being away for 30 years. The bulk of the story is what happened 30 years ago. The end frame is especially poignant.


Damn you, Maestro... must you choose one of my Top-5 fave films of all time?

I can't comment on frame stories in general. But with Cinema Paradiso, the beginning and end are obviously in the present and everything in between is one giant flashback. In the hands of a novice, it could get ugly. In the hands of a director like TOrnatore, it was magical and very satisfying. But I think the satisfaction came because of that poignant scene you're talking about.. when the MC is watching the reel of film at the end. Everything that happened in that story before that scene led up to that point--I think that is the key. It wasn't a simple, "..and this is where we are today 40 years later.." It sums up in seconds everything he missed out on, and reminds him of so much--damn scene almost made me cry. ALRIGHT, I get teary-eyed, EVERY TIME I watch it, so effing shoot me.

But I think, in the case of the present-past-present frame story, the entire flashback has to lead up to a major cathartic moment in the last (present) scene.

BTW, I fell for the collector's edition DVD with deleted scenes. The scene they deleted from the final act (almost an alternate ending), took away SO MUCH from the original theatrical release. I'm very glad it was cut in the first place. Pick it up and you'll see what I mean.

[maestrowork]

I am not sure if the Kite Runner qualifies to be a frame. The book starts with Amir and Hasan and moves forward in time. The end and everything in between is only the continuation of Amir's story leading to the resolution of the start.

No, it's not a frame in the book, although it did start with a "I remember" chapter. But in the movie, it is definitely a frame.

[maestrowork]

BTW, I fell for the collector's edition DVD with deleted scenes. The scene they deleted from the final act (almost an alternate ending), took away SO MUCH from the original theatrical release. I'm very glad it was cut in the first place. Pick it up and you'll see what I mean.

I agree... I actually hated the extended cut (but I was curious to find out what happened) and was glad they cut all that out of the theatrical release, which was much more poignant, wonderful, nostalgic and magical. The cut-out scenes were unnecessary (to a point they ruined the movie). So yeah. And I agree why the frame worked in that movie because of the last scene -- it's a poignant and emotional sucker punch that sums up everything and brings the MC through a complete circle.

[Kitty Pryde]

WAIT! ...I'm so confused. What? Is...is there no non-edited version of the novel? Ah! What? Is the thing with the love scene all a joke? WHAT? Ah! I need to pick it up again! That's amazing.

No, but I think that frame stories are really classy when they're done well. I'd like to write one like that at some point.

ROFL! At least I'm not the only one. I actually wrote to the publisher to get the "love scene", like he tells you to do in the book, and I got a letter back! There was no love scene in it. It's more funny stuff about the fake author and legal problems and such. Pretty cool. I thought it was neat that they could extend the fictional world of the novel out into the real world :)

[Lady Ice]

The English Patient is sort of a frame story, too.

Indeed, and it's a clever one as both threads are stories in their own right.

[DWSTXS]

when I am confronted with a frame story, the first thing that pops into my mind is that: Now I already know that the MC hasn't been killed. To some extent I know that pretty much everything has turned out okay for the MC, because here they are telling the story.

Also, it bothers me, up front, because I feel that it's very difficult to have a narrator tell a story in a frame setting, without sounding pretentious, or the 'frame' becomes bulky because the author is using too heavy a hand with it.

And these things ruin it for me.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe I've been reading the wrong books, but, I know what I like and don't like.

[maestrowork]

when I am confronted with a frame story, the first thing that pops into my mind is that: Now I already know that the MC hasn't been killed. To some extent I know that pretty much everything has turned out okay for the MC, because here they are telling the story.


Not to be a PITA, but what does it matter? Do you assume that every MC in every book will die at the end or something horrible is going to happen to him so that he wouldn't survive? If not, why does it matter to you to know that the MC survived (at least until the beginning of the end frame)?

Also, a "frame" story doesn't have to be about the MC. The frame in The English Patient has no link to the patient. The frame of The Princess Bride also has nothing to do with the main story. The frame of the Notebook didn't say the storyteller was the MC in the main story...


Also, it bothers me, up front, because I feel that it's very difficult to have a narrator tell a story in a frame setting, without sounding pretentious, or the 'frame' becomes bulky because the author is using too heavy a hand with it.

Why do you feel that way? Why do you feel that a frame is pretentious? I don't know if I understand why you feel that way.

[DWSTXS]

Not to be a PITA, but what does it matter? Do you assume that every MC in every book will die at the end or something horrible is going to happen to him so that he wouldn't survive? If not, why does it matter to you to know that the MC survived (at least until the beginning of the end frame)? - -

It matters because if I'm reading something that is supposed to have some level of suspense, in regards to the MC, I don't want it to be negated by the fact that I already know that the MC is okay.

Why do you feel that way? Why do you feel that a frame is pretentious? I don't know if I understand why you feel that way. - -

I feel that a frame is 'pretentious' or 'bulky' if I feel that the author is using it just to flex their literary muscle, so to speak. In other words, if I feel that the story could have been told without the frame, then I'd rather it had been told that way. I like it more straighforward. I want to 'get into' the story and stay there, without being jerked back and forth between the storyline and the time-frame of the frame. (is that clear as mud?) LOL

I do understand that it's done a lot, and admittedly, many authors have done it well (Princess Bride, English Patient.

I'm just saying that if I had my druthers, I'd rather read a straighforward story, without the frame device.

[maestrowork]

It matters because if I'm reading something that is supposed to have some level of suspense, in regards to the MC, I don't want it to be negated by the fact that I already know that the MC is okay.


I can understand that. But at the same time, I'm not sure why it matters, since the outcome is not necessarily the only thing that matters in fiction. How it happened could be suspenseful, too. Say, if the narrator in the frame story is in an insane asylum, badly disfigured... wouldn't it be intriguing and suspense to see "how he got there?"

Sure, you may lose the surprise/suspense of the disfigurement and insane asylum. But the story could just be as surprising and suspenseful: "Oh crap, so that's HOW he got disfigured and sent to the insane asylum! I never thought of that!"

Maybe you have been reading bad frame stories, because not all stories are like, "I'm sitting in my chair at the old folks' home and let me tell you a story." That would be a cheesy and pointless frame, in my opinion.

I feel that a frame is 'pretentious' or 'bulky' if I feel that the author is using it just to flex their literary muscle, so to speak. In other words, if I feel that the story could have been told without the frame, then I'd rather it had been told that way. I like it more straighforward. I want to 'get into' the story and stay there, without being jerked back and forth between the storyline and the time-frame of the frame. (is that clear as mud?) LOL


That's certainly a legit argument and preference. But again, it depends on the story and execution, no? Especially the bolded part: what if it has to be told with the frame? For example, the frame of Cinema Paradiso is essential and important and without it, the whole movie doesn't work, and there's nothing pretentious about it.

[Kitty Pryde]

I can understand that. But at the same time, I'm not sure why it matters, since the outcome is not necessarily the only thing that matters in fiction. How it happened could be suspenseful, too. Say, if the narrator in the frame story is in an insane asylum, badly disfigured... wouldn't it be intriguing and suspense to see "how he got there?"


Yep, and also, like you said, there are loads of stories in which the life of the MC is not in danger. Other stuff is at stake, like...feelings! :)

[maestrowork]

Yep, and also, like you said, there are loads of stories in which the life of the MC is not in danger. Other stuff is at stake, like...feelings! :)

I suppose it all depends on the genres, too. I can see how it would be a bad idea to have a frame for a mystery or suspense, when more often than not straightforward storytelling is preferred. Or romance -- you don't want to start with "and then they live happily ever after" and then backtrack.

[lkp]

I'm wary about frame stories, even though I just finished writing a novel that uses one, and returns to it periodically throughout the book. I think I don't like them when they are just a device to get you into the main plot. I do like them when they are just as important (even if not as long) as the main story and when the main story changes the frame while the frame shapes the main story. It's hard to write a novel that has two parallel narratives, which is essentially what this is, even if the frame portion is brief. I tend always to be more interested in the more contemporary frame story since the action of the older story is always finished with respect to the more recent frame story right at the beginning of the book. The main story can seem "past" while the frame is still current and contingent.

Hope what I'm saying makes sense. I think I am agreeing to a degree with DWSTXS.

[DWSTXS]

I suppose it all depends on the genres, too. I can see how it would be a bad idea to have a frame for a mystery or suspense, when more often than not straightforward storytelling is preferred. Or romance -- you don't want to start with "and then they live happily ever after" and then backtrack.

THIS is what really applies to me.

BTW - I just looked up The Princess Bride, and THAT frame, and the way he wrote the story, with the lost scenes and all, sounds very interesting. Even though I really don't care for the genre, and probably will never read it, but, it does sound interesting the way he wrote it.

So, I will put it in reverse and back up a little on my declaration of not liking frames.

Anything, written well, would be interesting.

[Raphee]

Frames are difficult to do and need, IMO, brilliance to pull them off.

I would highly recommend The Blind Assassin by Margaret Atwood. It is the best use of a frame I have read so far. This novel teaches you how a frame can enhance your story, how it may be used, and the level of complexity it gives to a story.
But also that you need a great story to tell, and know the craft.

[fringle]

Personally, I like frame stories, especially when they are done well. My favorite is The Catcher in the Rye. It's a small and unobtrusive frame, but it adds to the nostalgia factor of the story. And for me, that's when a frame works best, when it can up the ante on feeling or on action/consequence.

[Telstar]

Do you like them, hate them or are you indifferent?

I like them. If they are well done, the frame add more depth.

Do they distract from the main story? Or do you think they add layers to the main story?

The second. But the main story has to be king.

Do you think the framing story should be as important (or more) than the main story, since the frame is what concludes the novel?

No, less.

[Brutal Mustang]

when I am confronted with a frame story, the first thing that pops into my mind is that: Now I already know that the MC hasn't been killed. To some extent I know that pretty much everything has turned out okay for the MC, because here they are telling the story.

Ah! But the story could be framing a journal, in which you don't know what happened to the writer of the journal. (That's the path my WIP is taking--my characters are digging through history, trying to piece together what the hell happened to the writer.)

[raburrell]

I suppose it all depends on the genres, too. I can see how it would be a bad idea to have a frame for a mystery or suspense, when more often than not straightforward storytelling is preferred. Or romance -- you don't want to start with "and then they live happily ever after" and then backtrack.

No, but you could start in the middle. My WIP is a story about two former lovers reuniting to finish a long-abandoned quest. The frame is them reliving the events that caused them to fall in love in the first place, while slowly working their way back together. There's still an element of danger for them, as it's clear from chapter 1 they're at risk of death in the course of rekindling both their relationship and the task they've set out to do. Once the story of how things fell apart before is complete, the frame becomes the main story.

Whether or not it works is another question, but... overall, have gotten positive feedback on same. The trick to storytelling is finding a way to get your reader to invest in your characters. If a frame works for your particular story, I say use it. If maintaining suspense is important, (or even if it's not), be very judicious about where and when you jump back and forth between the frame and the main story - you work so hard to build a world for your reader, you don't want to yank it out from beneath them at the wrong moment.

[cathyfreeze]

I guess i'm the lone voice against frames (well, except for DWSTXS.) For the most part, they're unnecessary and distancing, imho. Almost every one I've read makes me impatient--either i'm into the frame story (it's done well and i like the beginning) and hate leaving it for the bulk of a brand new story--which my inner reader considers cheating (hey, i was reading, here!) or the frame is thin and i dismiss the book's beginning and p'shaw the ending. Nonlinear isn't a problem for me, and i totally have love for a good story that can jump back and forth through time, but if both stories (now and then) are equally important, they should get (imho) equal time, and if they're not--if one story is well and above the better--why bother me with the poor, thin bookends?

Might be my genre, tho--SF/F/H--tends to do them not so well, imho (notwithstanding that SK someone above mentioned, which i haven't read.)

:D

cat

[cathyfreeze]

I love a well-done frame story, just as I love a well-done story without. Right now, the first that springs to mind is The Historian. In that particular story, the two pieces are intertwined. To me a good frame story is one in which those pieces are intertwined for very specific purpose that must become clear in the end.

But intertwined isn't framing, is it?

cat

[maestrowork]

Yeah, I think a frame story is different from two intertwining plots, even though you could jump back and forth between them. But a true frame, to me, is separated from the main story, even if they're related. For example, the frame in The Notebook or Cinema Paradiso, or the Princess Bride -- they're closely related, but also completely separate. If main story could stand alone without the frame.

That's why I said The English Patient is kind of a frame because the two stories do intertwine, and one can't exist without the other.