Novels are dying - again!

[Maxinquaye]

I don't know what it is with the Guardian. They certainly obsess a lot on the theme that NOVELS ARE DYING!

Last time it was about Novels being supplanted by Essays. Now it's Kindles that will do in not just novels, but writing itself (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/dec/06/books-ebooks-technology-computers-society).

For the time being the Kindles and the rest are standalone devices, but it will surely not be long before they and the thousands of books they contain are bundled up with all the other must-have applications into a single computer which will mediate our lives: more undifferentiated text to match our own mood. "Technologies," Sherry Turkle points out, "are never just tools, they are evocative objects. They cause us to see ourselves, and our world, differently." Will anyone who is "always on" have the concentration to read the great social novels – those ultimate "interactions" with the world – on a screen? Will anyone be able to see far enough beyond themselves to write one?

I wish they'd make up their minds. Or am I reading them wrong? Maybe the future is belonging to Zadie Smith's essays, on kindles? I, for one, am not sure I welcome our Kindle-based essay overlords.

Sigh.

[JamieFord]

Novels aren't going anywhere.

There's a renaissance in YA going on right now that is beautiful to behold. And not just J.K. Rowling and the vampire books, but writers like Suzanne Collins, Sara Dessen, Scott Westerfeld, Laurie Halse Anderson, the list goes on...

When I was on tour, media folks kept gushing about the amazing influx of touring YA authors, huge crowds, adult readers of YA, etc.

I'm an optimist. I see an incredible generation of new readers heading to bookstores (online or otherwise) for a very long time.

[Albannach]

Best solution is never to read The Guardian. That solves that problem since even they often have NO clue what they mean--not to mention that I despise their political agenda so that may influence me. LOL

[swvaughn]

That's right. Every modern author, just like Don DeLillo, must use a typewriter in order to pen great literary works. None of us have actually evolved to using a computer, or are personally interested in having our books released in ebook format, or know anything at all about modern technology.

Myself, I write on stone tablets with a hammer and chisel. :D

[jennontheisland]

Doom, gloom, blah, blah, blah.

Next.

[James D. Macdonald]

Myself, I write on stone tablets with a hammer and chisel.

Hammer and chisel! You kids don't know how easy you have it! When I was growing up we had to write on stone tablets with a hammer and codfish! Do you have any idea how hard it is to carve stone with a codfish? I would have sold my granny for a chisel! We used codfish and we were happy to have 'em!

[Medievalist]

We used codfish and we were happy to have 'em!

'Course, back then, novels were organic. Not like this modern stuff.

[blacbird]

All the novels I've written have died. Short stories too, for that matter. What's newsworthy about this article?

caw

[colealpaugh]

When I was growing up we had to write on stone tablets with a hammer and codfish!

Whilst wearing codpiece?

[Albannach]

You might want to be careful carrying codfish. I understand they are the weapon of choice of Icelandic terrorists. Probably get you arrested in the UK.

[Maxinquaye]

Whilst wearing codpiece?

Uncle Jim is from Iceland?

[scarletpeaches]

'Course, back then, novels were organic. Not like this modern stuff.Mine are totally orga-

Oh, wait. Organic? Sorry, I'm in the wrong forum again.

[colealpaugh]

Uncle Jim is from Iceland?

France. Duh. See the beard?

[Wayne K]

Mine are totally orga-

Oh, wait. Organic? Sorry, I'm in the wrong forum again.One in every crowd.

[Wayne K]

France. Duh. See the beard?
Where's his cone head then?

[maxmordon]

What about Frankenstein? Um?

[colealpaugh]

Where's his cone head then?

Dammit.

[Medievalist]

One in every crowd.

Not for women; ours are in multiples.

[scarletpeaches]

Not for women; ours are in multiples.Ba-doom TISH!

Thank you very much; you've been a wonderful audience. Medi and SP - we're here all week.

Try the veal!

[colealpaugh]

"Will anyone who is "always on" have the concentration to read the great social novels – those ultimate "interactions" with the world – on a screen? Will anyone be able to see far enough beyond themselves to write one?"

By that logic, will anyone have the concentration to study theoretical physics and Gray's Anatomy? We're headed to a future with no space travel and untreated sores.

[Cliff Face]

"We're headed to a future with no space travel and untreated sores."

No, all we have to do is invent a way of sustaining life indefinitely so that the people who existed before the Kindle can keep us on track. Then we can all bitch about the new generations who don't know a tree from goose liver, who have a USB port in their temple, and who will one day invent the Matrix.

[Bookewyrme]

"Will anyone who is "always on" have the concentration to read the great social novels – those ultimate "interactions" with the world – on a screen? Will anyone be able to see far enough beyond themselves to write one?"

By that logic, will anyone have the concentration to study theoretical physics and Gray's Anatomy? We're headed to a future with no space travel and untreated sores.

But the important thing is the NOVELS, man! I mean, untreated sores are one thing, but no novels are a total catastrophy! And of course, in the future, all the old books will be burned to make way for new technology.

*sigh*

[K.L. Townsend]

Wow, novels sure do die a lot it seems.

Does that mean we can get zombie novels?

[Wayne K]

Undead books?

[swvaughn]

Hammer and chisel! You kids don't know how easy you have it! When I was growing up we had to write on stone tablets with a hammer and codfish! Do you have any idea how hard it is to carve stone with a codfish? I would have sold my granny for a chisel! We used codfish and we were happy to have 'em!

I'll trade you my chisel for your granny...

You can keep the codfish, though. I've got sardines. :D

[JoNightshade]

I find all these doomsayers rather ironic, since I'm one of the most literate AND tech-savvy people I know. In fact, I'd say 90% of the internet addicts I know are also avid readers. And 90% of the people who don't understand all these newfangled thingiemajobbies aren't really readers, either.

Avid readers who are also technical illiterates are an aging, dwindling minority. Apparently they're pretty vocal, too. No surprise most of them exist in "traditional" media (ie paper-based magazines and newspapers) which ARE, unlike the novel, actually dying. Good riddance.

[Medievalist]

If men learn [writing], it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks. What you have discovered is a recipe not for memory, but for reminder. And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only its semblance, for by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much, while for the most part they know nothing, and as men filled, not with wisdom, but with the conceit of wisdom, they will be a burden to their fellows.

Plato—Phaedrus 275a-b

[gothicangel]

If I remember correctly a novel is a piece of work of 40,000+ words, containing components of plot, character, theme, etc . . .

I never realised format was a part of the definition. No matter if it's written on a 400 page bound book; a computer screen with e-ink, or on baby-wipes a novel is still a novel!

Where exactly have these Guardian writers graduated from?

[Use Her Name]

I think what is dying is "free time," and it has been for a long time. The ability to sit down with a good book is becoming less and less for working people (like me). This is a different issue, but has a great deal to do with the size of books, and overall literacy of the public. I love the idea of Kindels, and also down-loadable library books. E-literature is a great idea. As someone said the format is evolving rather than dying.

[scarletpeaches]

I completely disagree. We have more free time these days, hence the profusion of trinkets and gadgets.

It's all about priorities anyway. Even working people still manage to write - if it's a priority.

[Linda Adams]

It's all about priorities anyway. Even working people still manage to write - if it's a priority.

QFT. I have a friend who keeps saying he wants to write a novel, but he keeps putting it at the end of his priority list. So it never gets written.

[Bookewyrme]

Undead books?

Hrm. It is true that some books will eat your brain.....

[gothicangel]

I completely disagree. We have more free time these days, hence the profusion of trinkets and gadgets.

It's all about priorities anyway. Even working people still manage to write - if it's a priority.

I work part-time AND study full time. Hey, if I can find the time to write and doing the housework THERE ARE NO EXCUSES!

[Maxinquaye]

I like this recession. My work has "shrunk" to about 70-80%-time. I gets loads of time to write fiction. :)

[motormind]

Myself, I write on stone tablets with a hammer and chisel. :D

I train fleas to make them form the words of my novel. It's a hassle, since they don't live for long and I have to keep replacing the deceased ones. They also suck immense amounts of blood, so I am becoming rather anemic.

[Vomaxx]

Best solution is never to read The Guardian. That solves that problem since even they often have NO clue what they mean--not to mention that I despise their political agenda so that may influence me. LOL


:) An excellent suggestion.

[swvaughn]

I train fleas to make them form the words of my novel. It's a hassle, since they don't live for long and I have to keep replacing the deceased ones. They also suck immense amounts of blood, so I am becoming rather anemic.

That's hardcore, man. :D

[LuckyH]

If I remember correctly a novel is a piece of work of 40,000+ words, containing components of plot, character, theme, etc . . .

I never realised format was a part of the definition. No matter if it's written on a 400 page bound book; a computer screen with e-ink, or on baby-wipes a novel is still a novel!

Where exactly have these Guardian writers graduated from?

Try the Stirling University site.

[a_sharp]

Just last week I saw a real book novel. Someone left it on a bus seat. I picked it up and tried to stuff it in my Kindle, but it wouldn't fit. A woman came over and said, "Not like that. First you have to scan it, then upload it." Too much trouble, so I put it back on the seat. Dang thing will probably ride there forever. No one reads book novels anymore, just ask the Guardian. Them knows.

[DannySherbet]

This stuff about novels "dying" is nonsense.

People said the music industry would die when they invented home tape recorders. They're saying the same thing now about internet file-sharing.

The only thing that might change is the way in which read a novel, what with the launch of Amazon's Kindle and so on. But I still don't think that will happen. Certainly not for decades.

IMHO, people still liking holding a book and turning the pages.

[gothicangel]

Last time I looked Stirling University graduated writers such as Iain Banks.

[Libbie]

Oh, for god's sake. Yeah, we're going to become so dependent on our BlackBerries that we'll lose all desire to express ourselves.

THE SKY IS FALLING!

[gothicangel]

Do you mean Grace Dent [who ever she is]

I doubt she'll be carping on about the death of the novel as she has published ten of them. Quite a pedigree emerging from Stirling then . . .

[Libbie]

And 90% of the people who don't understand all these newfangled thingiemajobbies aren't really readers, either.



This!

In the short time I've worked at a book store, I've come to realize how true this is. I'm sorry to sound so nasty, but there are smart people and there are not-smart people in the world. Smart people like to read. Not-smart people really don't seem to enjoy it, in my observation, unless it's to read something that doesn't challenge them much. The not-smart wander into the store with a glazed expression, mope around a single section, and have a dull affect. They can't figure out how to use the credit-card swiper, something they've seen a hundred thousand times before at retail stores. They can't answer a question like "Would you like a bag?" for several painful seconds. I could go on and on.

These people don't like books. They come into the book store to buy their very specific items. They are not the people who browse, who spend hours there, who are enthusiastic about discussing their purchase.... These people drift through life without caring what goes on around them. There are smart people, and there are the unsmart people.

If I seem overly cruel, consider that I am working in retail during the holidays, and be merciful in your judgment.

[LuckyH]

Do you mean Grace Dent [who ever she is]

I doubt she'll be carping on about the death of the novel as she has published ten of them. Quite a pedigree emerging from Stirling then . . .

If you look at the list of journalists, there are some names that have appeared in the Guardian. It stands to reason, Stirling has always had a left-wing bent. When my sister was there, she joined the Communist party, although she doesn't like to be reminded of it, now that she an SNP candidate.

And Dr John Reid? Need I say any more.

[Albannach]

If you look at the list of journalists, there are some names that have appeared in the Guardian. It stands to reason, Stirling has always had a left-wing bent. When my sister was there, she joined the Communist party, although she doesn't like to be reminded of it, now that she an SNP candidate.

And Dr John Reid? Need I say any more.

As a member, I might remind you that the SNP is a center-left party.

I wasn't aware that Stirling had a political test for admission though. I believe you'll find people of a lot of different stripes who have attended. As for Dr. John Reid, he's a member of Labour. (*edits out opinion of some people in Labour including Dr. Reid*)

It has nothing to do with the fact that there are excellent writers who attended. The Guardian? I already suggested my solution for them. :)

[Maxinquaye]

Best solution is never to read The Guardian. That solves that problem since even they often have NO clue what they mean--not to mention that I despise their political agenda so that may influence me. LOL

I read extremely widely. I've never been a fan of just reading stuff that reinforce your own views. Sometimes it's good to read stuff that takes your own views by the throat, throttle them and then bring out the thongs and pliers.

If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to read any UK newspaper. :)

[Mara]

Creative Process at The Guardian:

[Our scene opens in a newspaper office. Visibility is severely diminished by large quantities of marijuana smoke.]

Guy1: Hay guyz! Can I haz a great idea!
Guy2: lol whut?
Guy1: Teh novels are dyeing! Teh little comix on teh inside of Bazooka Joe bubble gum wrappers is gonna replace them!
Guy2: roflmao epic dude! Rite that sh*t down!
Guy1: kk.

[colealpaugh]

I've read there are now 100,000 English-language full-length novels published each year. A blogger used RR Bowker (Books in Print) numbers, so it's probably a fair estimate.

I've also read many editors and publishers lamenting this growing number, citing that readership numbers have been fairly flat. But they keep pumping them out.

[LuckyH]

What a great opportunity to say something about The Guardian.

It’s the newspaper of choice for British intellectuals, especially with its left-wing agenda. It follows on quite naturally that it’s the newspaper of choice for writers; you know, people like you and I who don’t blindly follow Fox news or the Sun newspaper, which appeal to the under-educated masses.

We’re smart people, we may think we know it all, which isn’t true, but we know a damn sight more than the plebs who don’t read anything more than two paragraphs long, and prefer pictures and computer games to anything which questions why we’re here at all.

Of course the articles are written to stimulate public discussion, and if you’re not aware of that then you shouldn’t read that newspaper; there are plenty of other sources to keep your small mind entertained.

Having got that off my chest, I also believe that lack of humility is a bad trait in a writer, and I’ve just broken a golden rule; the only mitigation I can think of is that someone needs to put their head over the parapet and silence the fools.

[Slushie]

So, the Guardian in the Brit equivalent of the NYT? ugh. The Economist FTW. Screw all this naysayer bullshit about novels dying and Kindle and essays and doom and gloom. People will keep reading made-up stories as long as they want an eject button from reality. Who wants to read an essay after having a shitty day at work? Not me.

[Bookewyrme]

The not-smart wander into the store with a glazed expression, mope around a single section, and have a dull affect. They can't figure out how to use the credit-card swiper, something they've seen a hundred thousand times before at retail stores. They can't answer a question like "Would you like a bag?" for several painful seconds. I could go on and on.

These people don't like books. They come into the book store to buy their very specific items. They are not the people who browse, who spend hours there, who are enthusiastic about discussing their purchase.... These people drift through life without caring what goes on around them. There are smart people, and there are the unsmart people.

If I seem overly cruel, consider that I am working in retail during the holidays, and be merciful in your judgment.

Hey now! I would consider myself an avid, even voracious reader (of the four suitcases between myself and my husband when we moved overseas, one was just my books!) but I tend to do exactly this. Well, perhaps without the dull, glazed look unless I'm really tired. But I do usually walk straight to the section I want, pick up the book I was looking for, and skedaddle. Of course, this is because if I don't, then I'll walk out with 10, which I can neither afford nor do I have time to read them *sigh*. I also have issues with card readers (they are NOT the same in every store. Every blasted store has a totally different one! argh!), and frequently can be undecided whether I want a bag!

That being said, having worked in a book store for a year and a half, I do understand where you're coming from. Good luck, and remember...this too shall pass!:Hug2:

[colealpaugh]

who don’t blindly follow Fox news or the Sun newspaper, which appeal to the under-educated masses.



Last posted ratings (Dec. 3, '09) for 25-54 demographic:

Fox News: 378 -- CNN: 143 -- MSNBC: 101

O'Reilly: 836
Hannity: 524
Beck: 463
Olberman: 248
Maddow: 217
The Ed Show: 90
Larry King: 231

For the West Point address from 8:02pm-8:36pm, Fox News drew 4.554M Total Viewers to CNN's 2.349M and MSNBC's 1.56M.



*Just numbers. Not making any particular point. But when I covered wars, their was an old adage about taking control of the radio stations first.

[Albannach]

What a great opportunity to say something about The Guardian.

It’s the newspaper of choice for British intellectuals, especially with its left-wing agenda. It follows on quite naturally that it’s the newspaper of choice for writers; you know, people like you and I who don’t blindly follow Fox news or the Sun newspaper, which appeal to the under-educated masses.

We’re smart people, we may think we know it all, which isn’t true, but we know a damn sight more than the plebs who don’t read anything more than two paragraphs long, and prefer pictures and computer games to anything which questions why we’re here at all.

Of course the articles are written to stimulate public discussion, and if you’re not aware of that then you shouldn’t read that newspaper; there are plenty of other sources to keep your small mind entertained.

Having got that off my chest, I also believe that lack of humility is a bad trait in a writer, and I’ve just broken a golden rule; the only mitigation I can think of is that someone needs to put their head over the parapet and silence the fools.
Sorry. They're unionist stooges who haven't had an original idea in decades.

Fortunately, NOT being British but having an actual nation (Scotland, thank you very much) I don't have to care about their "intellectual" pretensions. When I read newscoverage or "intellectual" commentary, I want it from someone whose mentality isn't stuck in the 1950s.

Edit: Even in a "union" that decided to declare ICELAND a "terrorist nation", it is possible to find news coverage and intellectual discussion that is not dominated by the "British" establishment and its hirelings. Some of us choose to do so. The only good thing I can say about The Guardian and its oh-so-pinky-raised intellectualism is that it hasn't been bought by Murdoch.

Under-educated masses. GOD. But remember we're necessarily for supporting you superior toffs. (*deletes rant*)

Stick that head up again, laddie. I'll be happy to have another go at it.

[Mara]

I'm a political lefty, but I don't see much in the way of politics in articles about the death of novels.

[Albannach]

Everything is political, ESPECIALLY education and the control of ideas.

Edit: However, I try not to talk about it on writing sites. It's not where it belongs but *shudder* The Guardian and its ilk. And under-educated masses who are too inferior to understand how Britishly superior it, its writers and its readers are.

Sorry. I think I need a soothing cup of tea. Back later. I've had my say.

Don't read the thing--solves a lot of problems.

[gothicangel]

Everything is political, ESPECIALLY education and the control of ideas.

Just read some James Kelman!

I may be a liberal/labour voter, but I would die to defend people's right to read the Sun or the Guardian. I prefer the Independent.

[LuckyH]

Sorry. They're unionist stooges who haven't had an original idea in decades.

Fortunately, NOT being British but having an actual nation (Scotland, thank you very much) I don't have to care about their "intellectual" pretensions. When I read newscoverage or "intellectual" commentary, I want it from someone whose mentality isn't stuck in the 1950s.

Edit: Even in a "union" that decided to declare ICELAND a "terrorist nation", it is possible to find news coverage and intellectual discussion that is not dominated by the "British" establishment and its hirelings. Some of us choose to do so. The only good thing I can say about The Guardian and its oh-so-pinky-raised intellectualism is that it hasn't been bought by Murdoch.

Under-educated masses. GOD. But remember we're necessarily for supporting you superior toffs. (*deletes rant*)

Stick that head up again, laddie. I'll be happy to have another go at it.

Hallo Sonny. My wife used to say to me, “Yer heed’s fu o wee wheels.”

She was right, but to answer your post, and it’s way off topic, but interesting just the same.

Maybe I should start off by saying that if I still lived in Scotland I would not be voting Labour or Conservative.

However, when I did live there, and I have no complaints, it provided me with the best education imaginable. Not Stirling though, a wee bit further east, and across the Firth of Forth.

However the reality:

If I answered my door at that time, I would first of all be looking at the colour of the scarf. If that test was passed, the conversation would be as follows.

“If you're Scottish, come in, if you’re not, fuck off, and if you’re a Sassenach, go and stand on the M8 motorway.”

I see that things haven’t changed.

[Albannach]

I read Holyrood Magazine. Sometimes The Herald Scotland (but only when they have their head on straight and remember that we know where their auntie bides). Absolutely people should have the RIGHT to read anything they want to including even The Sun. No one has any right to tell people what they MUST or CAN NOT read or write. I can say I despise it (also my right) and it's up to you to make up your own mind.

Very much a political issue.

Here's freedom to him that wad read,
Here's freedom to him that wad write!
There's nane ever fear'd that the truth should be heard,
But they wham the truth wad indite.


Edit: *salute* I dinnae tell them tae stand in the M8. I am given to rude words though. ;)

[colealpaugh]

“If your Scottish, come in, if you’re not, fuck off, and if you’re a Sassenach, go and stand on the M8 motorway.”


I loved that until I looked up Sassenach. I thought you meant Bigfoot.

[Bookewyrme]

If I answered my door at that time, I would first of all be looking at the colour of the scarf. If that test was passed, the conversation would be as follows.



I'm immensely curious. What is the "correct" scarf color?

[motormind]

That's hardcore, man. :D

Even when I'm a woman? ;)
And no, I won't tell you where I put those fleas.

[IdiotsRUs]

I'm immensely curious. What is the "correct" scarf color?


Depends who's doing the looking

For a people who hate us Sassenachs so much, there's hell of a lot of them down here, mingling with us, and probably learning soft English ways and stuff.

Take Brown back, please?

[Maxinquaye]

And I'm in England stealing english jobs. And my ancestors conquered both the danelaw and Normandie (which means northmanland). And we created Iceland. I should be prosecuted.

[James D. Macdonald]

I've read there are now 100,000 English-language full length novels published each year.

How many of those are self-published and/or POD and/or vanity titles that no one but the author's mom is ever going to hear of, let alone read?

[Maxinquaye]

How many of those are self-published and/or POD and/or vanity titles that no one but the author's mom is ever going to hear of, let alone read?

An agent on Susan Browne's "Write Lines", a radio series that recently played on BBC Oxford, said that there are 120k books published by publishers in the UK alone. These are books registered by Nielsen Bookscan (http://www.nielsenbookdata.co.uk/uploads/press/1NielsenBook_ProductionFigures_Feb09.pdf) in the UK. I don't know what percentage of those are "self-published".

[Albannach]

Depends who's doing the looking

For a people who hate us Sassenachs so much, there's hell of a lot of them down here, mingling with us, and probably learning soft English ways and stuff.

Take Brown back, please?
No. You bought him. (Hums "bought and sold for English gold")

He's yours. No returns. No refunds. (Mind you the gold went in the pockets of his City friends so it's still down there anyway)

But I don't hate the Sassenach. I'm even friends with some of them. I just don't want them running my country from Westminster or campaigning up here. We have a parliament at Holyrood and we're perfectly capable of running our own nation.

And if you mention Mr. North Britain Brown (who has never allowed the word Scot to issue from his weasily mouth) I'll suggest you count how many MPs you have compared to ours and tell me why there are Tridents in the Clyde.

Edit: The ones I let in wear a yellow rosette. ;-)

[Albannach]

How many of those are self-published and/or POD and/or vanity titles that no one but the author's mom is ever going to hear of, let alone read?

Good question. Is there a way to find that out?

[LuckyH]

I'm immensely curious. What is the "correct" scarf color?
It’s funny, when you’ve been brought up in an environment where colours are ridiculously important, you don’t realise that the rest of the world don’t know, or care.

In Scotland, the land that I love and would die for, blue (and orange) is the colour of Protestants, green is the colour of Catholics, in exactly the same way as in Northern Ireland.

Thousands of people have died because of those colours. They represent religions, religions that are not even that far apart.

It is so stupid, it defies belief. But it seeps into your bones. I’ve found myself singing in the bath, of battles fought hundreds of years ago, with tears in my eyes.

The songs are stupid, the words are stupid, and I’m stupid.

[colealpaugh]

How many of those are self-published and/or POD and/or vanity titles that no one but the author's mom is ever going to hear of, let alone read?

I don't have the original source, but here's a more recent blogger with the pretty much the same numbers and uses the Books to Print numbers, as well.

http://workproduct.wordpress.com/2009/10/14/how-many-novels-are-published-each-year/

"If we can live with U.S.-only numbers, and if we’re mostly interested in English-language fiction, we can consult R.R. Bowker’s publishing statistics (http://www.bowker.com/index.php/book-industry-statistics) ....From them we learn that there were 407,000 books published in 2007 ... a total that includes 123,000 “on-demand, short run, and other unclassified” titles. Of the 274,000 classified titles, 43,000 are “fiction,” a category that includes “strictly adult novels...and short story collections.” (There are separate categories for anthologies, literary criticism, poetry, drama, etc...) If the same ratio holds for the unclassified category, we’d have another 19,000 novel-like entries, for a total of 62,000....In the meantime let’s assume, conservatively, that the global total is on the order of twice the U.S. number. In that case it seems pretty safe to say there are around 100,000 new English-language works of long-form prose fiction published globally each year."


Fun with bolding!!!:Sun:

[IdiotsRUs]

No. You bought him. (Hums "bought and sold for English gold")
[QUOTE]
He's yours. No returns. No refunds. (Mind you the gold went in the pockets of his City friends so it's still down there anyway) Blast.

But I don't hate the Sassenach. I'm even friends with some of them. If you say so. You do sound a little, um, strident though? And tbh, I've met too many Scots who rant about how much they hate the English, yet haven't been home to Scotland in several decades. It gets rather wearisome after a while. I keep wanting to ask them to change the blooming record.


I just don't want them running my country from Westminster or campaigning up here. We have a parliament at Holyrood and we're perfectly capable of running our own nation. I'm sure you are. I don't think I said otherwise, did I? Nope, pretty sure I didn't. Which makes me wonder why you brought it up.

And if you mention Mr. North Britain Brown (who has never allowed the word Scot to issue from his weasily mouth) I'll suggest you count how many MPs you have compared to ours and tell me why there are Tridents in the Clyde.And I'll suggest that all MPs need shooting and it doesn't matter what nationality they are.

PS the Tridents are British, not English. The Royal Navy is British, not English, as evidenced by the many Scots in it. AFAIA Scotland is still part of Britain. I don't think they're picking on you any more than they're picking on Portsmouth.

Back on topic

These are books registered by Nielsen Bookscan in the UK. I don't know what percentage of those are "self-published". Good gods! Mind you that link says that 'first ISBNs for new publishers' is running at over 2k a year. Two thousand new publishers? Wow. Where are they all?

[gothicangel]

I loved that until I looked up Sassenach. I thought you meant Bigfoot.

And if you look at the true origins you would know that Sassenach means lowlander, a term coined during the Jacobite Rebellion.

But if you want to mis-use the word and call me a Sassenach then go ahead. Although I'd much prefer to play with cars on the A1 at least that traffic keeps moving.

[swvaughn]

Even when I'm a woman? ;)
And no, I won't tell you where I put those fleas.

I call everybody man. It's all that Mary Juana. :D

[colealpaugh]

And if you look at the true origins you would know that Sassenach means lowlander, a term coined during the Jacobite Rebellion.

But if you want to mis-use the word and call me a Sassenach then go ahead. Although I'd much prefer to play with cars on the A1 at least that traffic keeps moving.

As long as it's clear from your quote that I didn't call you anything. I believe I read Keira Knightley is English. Captain Kidd was from Scotland. 'Nuff said.

[Medievalist]

Meh

The Scots are all ultimately Irish or Welsh :D

[runs and hides]

[Slushie]

Christ, this thread has been pillaged by these high-faluting English types and their goddam football which is actually soccer and their tea-time with crumpets. I thought the innernets only existed in 'merika.

Quit treading on ma freedum wit your obscure cult'rural refrences! Sasquatch. pfft. He's American fer sure. An English Sasquatch would be like an Arabian Yeti.

[Maxinquaye]

All the english are ultimately Danes anyway.

First King Knut (you call him Canute, for some reason) conquered Yorkshire and established the Danelaw. Then Hrólfr went and conquered Normandy, and would spawn William I about 100 years after conquest, and he'd finish England off as an independent state. :)

This silly independence you insist on must end. You're all really danish.

[Albannach]

I actually thought you were talking about the color of rosettes. I know very, VERY few Scots who worry about religion and the color of scarves. In fact, except for a tiny handful Orange Order--I don't know any. (I'm more than a bit horrified at a Scot bringing up the subject of ancient sectarianism) Those battles were over hundreds of years ago and they went on all over Europe not just in Scotland.

I wouldn't let in someone wearing a red rosette though. They're Labour.

I am a nationalist which has nothing to do with being stupid, and does have to do with self-determination.

The only songs that make me weep are Scots Wha Hae and Flower of Scotland. (Ok, and A Man's A Man even if it is a bit sexist ;) )

Edit: I have no time for old battles over religion of all things. There are enough battles with getting Scotland the right to control our own money and set our own laws. Ancient hatreds really have no place in it.


It’s funny, when you’ve been brought up in an environment where colours are ridiculously important, you don’t realise that the rest of the world don’t know, or care.

In Scotland, the land that I love and would die for, blue (and orange) is the colour of Protestants, green is the colour of Catholics, in exactly the same way as in Northern Ireland.

Thousands of people have died because of those colours. They represent religions, religions that are not even that far apart.

It is so stupid, it defies belief. But it seeps into your bones. I’ve found myself singing in the bath, of battles fought hundreds of years ago, with tears in my eyes.

The songs are stupid, the words are stupid, and I’m stupid.

[Albannach]

And if you look at the true origins you would know that Sassenach means lowlander, a term coined during the Jacobite Rebellion.

But if you want to mis-use the word and call me a Sassenach then go ahead. Although I'd much prefer to play with cars on the A1 at least that traffic keeps moving.

No Sassenach means southerner and is a Scots Gaelic word far predating the Jacobite rebellion.

Might look it up yourself.

[Albannach]

Christ, this thread has been pillaged by these high-faluting English types and their goddam football which is actually soccer and their tea-time with crumpets. I thought the innernets only existed in 'merika.

Quit treading on ma freedum wit your obscure cult'rural refrences! Sasquatch. pfft. He's American fer sure. An English Sasquatch would be like an Arabian Yeti.
Calling a Scot an "English type" is about as serious an insult as you can prefer.

I'll be a cold day in *wherever* before I'm English.

[scarletpeaches]

Meh

The Scots are all ultimately Irish or Welsh :D

[runs and hides]As someone who's in possession of my 'real name' email address you know that's true in my case. :D

[Albannach]

All the english are ultimately Danes anyway.

First King Knut (you call him Canute, for some reason) conquered Yorkshire and established the Danelaw. Then Hrólfr went and conquered Normandy, and would spawn William I about 100 years after conquest, and he'd finish England off as an independent state. :)

This silly independence you insist on must end. You're all really danish.
True. The English are.

Actually, Scots are a bit of this and a bit of that. We even took in some Saxons quite a few Normans and most anyone who took a liking to the country as they were passing through. Being Scottish never had anything to do with "bloodline" and always had to do with whether you live in Scotland and consider yourself Scottish.

[maxmordon]

Um... Ah... Eh...

I give up.

[IdiotsRUs]

True. The English are. The Scots are not. ;)


Vikings..men in Kilts. Vikings...men in kilts.

Decisions, decisions

Being Scottish never had anything to do with "bloodline" and always had to do with whether you live in Scotland and consider yourself Scottish. It's the same down here you know. Except possibly for Yorkshiremen.

[James D. Macdonald]

Boy, howdy!

Some great ideas for novels there ....

[scarletpeaches]

Let's get one thing cleared up.

I'm half-Italian, born in Scotland with an Irish surname.

So yeah. Bit of a mongrel, then.

[Medievalist]

On of the odd things about my brief stint as a substitute teacher in a southern CA public high school was that the colors of clothing, whether worn by students or faculty, potentially denoted gang sympathies.

[Medievalist]

No Sassenach means southerner and is a Scots Gaelic word far predating the Jacobite rebellion.

Might look it up yourself.

Actually, it's a loan word; it meas Saxon. It's simply transliterated.

[LuckyH]

I actually thought you were talking about the color of rosettes. I know very, VERY few Scots who worry about religion and the color of scarves. In fact, except for a tiny handful Orange Order--I don't know any. (I'm more than a bit horrified at a Scot bringing up the subject of ancient sectarianism) Those battles were over hundreds of years ago and they went on all over Europe not just in Scotland.

I wouldn't let in someone wearing a red rosette though. They're Labour.

I am a nationalist which has nothing to do with being stupid, and does have to do with self-determination.

The only songs that make me weep are Scots Wha Hae and Flower of Scotland. (Ok, and A Man's A Man even if it is a bit sexist ;) )

Edit: I have no time for old battles over religion of all things. There are enough battles with getting Scotland the right to control our own money and set our own laws. Ancient hatreds really have no place in it.

From what you’ve just written you must live in the Shetlands or on Mars. Scotland is divided in two, the blue East and the green West.

Christ all mighty, I didn’t imagine those green and blue buses pulling up in my home town to take us to the football. I made a mistake once and got a punch on the nose for my troubles.

I don’t suppose we’ll ever meet in the blue room at Ibrox, but if we did, I’d be pleased to have a wee dram with you.

[Albannach]

[QUOTE=Albannach;4339742]No. You bought him. (Hums "bought and sold for English gold")
Blast.
If you say so. You do sound a little, um, strident though? And tbh, I've met too many Scots who rant about how much they hate the English, yet haven't been home to Scotland in several decades. It gets rather wearisome after a while. I keep wanting to ask them to change the blooming record.

I never said any such thing and truthfully don't think I've ever heard more than one or two other Scots say so. But if you say so, I'll take your word for it.

I sound no more strident than you do. You were a bit aggressive in your comments which is why I pointed it out.

I'm sure you are. I don't think I said otherwise, did I? Nope, pretty sure I didn't. Which makes me wonder why you brought it up.

And I'll suggest that all MPs need shooting and it doesn't matter what nationality they are.
See above about why I pointed it out.

Nope, I consider our lot (the SNP) a pretty fair group and object to shooting them and why would you want to? They don't vote on English affairs just ones that affect Scotland--such as those Tridents in the Clyde. Which may be British but are not Scottish and we dinnae want them there. Take them to Portsmouth--thanks.

PS the Tridents are British, not English. The Royal Navy is British, not English, as evidenced by the many Scots in it. AFAIA Scotland is still part of Britain. I don't think they're picking on you any more than they're picking on Portsmouth.
Then why aren't they IN Portsmouth where I assume people don't mind because SCOTS do.

Back on topic

Good gods! Mind you that link says that 'first ISBNs for new publishers' is running at over 2k a year. Two thousand new publishers? Wow. Where are they all?
No idea. Are they really publishers or what?

[Maxinquaye]

Nationalism has gotten europe into so much trouble through the last few hundred years. I'd wish that some day, whether you're scots or italian or Roma or bulgarian would stop being important.

Me, I'm a total mongrel: grew up on my grandpa's lap when he told about his adventures when germans wanted lebenraum at his country's expense, then moved to my mum's country that hasn't been in a war since 1812, then to my then boyfriend's country which saw war in the 1990s, and now I'm in England.

Sometimes I think we europeans are fucked, no matter what we do.

[Albannach]

From what you’ve just written you must live in the Shetlands or on Mars. Scotland is divided in two, the blue East and the green West.

Christ all mighty, I didn’t imagine those green and blue buses pulling up in my home town to take us to the football. I made a mistake once and got a punch on the nose for my troubles.

I don’t suppose we’ll ever meet in the blue room at Ibrox, but if we did, I’d be pleased to have a wee dram with you.
WHAT? You're saying that the East is Protestant and the West is Catholic?

I sincerely hope you are joking. It is LONG past when those battles were fought and I'd have no objection to being from the Shetlands, but I'm not.

If you are really that prejudiced over religion and know people who are then I feel sorry for you. Most of the people I know don't even go to the kirk MUCH LESS fight battles over it.

[Medievalist]

Sometimes I think we europeans are fucked, no matter what we do.

We shall blame European Decadence for the decline of the novel!

[scarletpeaches]

We shall blame European Decadence for the decline of the novel!I blame the deline of the novel for European decadence!

[Albannach]

Nationalism has gotten europe into so much trouble through the last few hundred years. I'd wish that some day, whether you're scots or italian or Roma or bulgarian would stop being important.

Me, I'm a total mongrel: grew up on my grandpa's lap when he told about his adventures when germans wanted lebenraum at his country's expense, then moved to my mum's country that hasn't been in a war since 1812, then to my then boyfriend's country which saw war in the 1990s, and now I'm in England.

Sometimes I think we europeans are fucked, no matter what we do.
It will only stop being important when we stop trying to FORCE our nation on other people. I have hopes for the EU bringing us together without forcing us all to be alike or running our lives.

Race has nothing to do with it nor does being a mongrel. I'm Gaelic, Norman, probably a bit of Saxon and probably a stray Dane or two. It doesn't matter and that's irrelevant.

Scottish nationalism has never had anything to do with race. It has to do with running one's own business.

[Albannach]

I blame the deline of the novel for European decadence!
It's all the crass Americans faults. They have no class. ;)

[Maxinquaye]

But then again, those damned Campbells! Or was it MacDonalds?

Anyway, Long live the King of Islay!

[IdiotsRUs]

[QUOTE]I never said any such thing and truthfully don't think I've ever heard more than one or two other Scots say so. But if you say so, I'll take your word for it.





Sadly they do. Far too often. *sigh* It's a right bugger being the bad guy just because you were born south of some arbitrary line.
I sound no more strident than you do. You were a bit aggressive in your comments which is why I pointed it out.
Was I? - You seemed a little that way before I posted even - one reason for the facetious 'Take Brown Back' comment. It wasn't meant in any strident way ( please see my sig - 9 times out of ten I'm not being 100% serious. I wasn't being 1% serious there. Unless you want him? :D). Apologies if you took it that way.


Nope, I consider our lot (the SNP) a pretty fair group and object to shooting them and why would you want to?

I just have a jaundiced view of all MPs. I make no distinctions. That was my point.


Which may be British but are not Scottish and we dinnae want them there. Take them to Portsmouth--thanks.

Then why aren't they IN Portsmouth where I assume people don't mind because SCOTS do.

Then if they're British but not Scottish they must be British but not English too. Britain =/= England. Whoever much the Americans think so lol.

There's people in Portsmouth don't want them there either. They don't get a choice either. Really, the English get screwed by the Government just as much as you do. They aren't sitting in Parliament thinking 'What shall we do to piss off the Scots today? Oh I know, let's put a Naval Base there!' *thinks for a second* Okay, probably not. See my above point about MPs.

At least you get to blame it on a handy Government you don't see as yours. I'm bloody stuck with it - ENglish people screwing me, a ( mostly) English person. Unless I can get a Devolve Sussex Now campaign going. hmmmm maybe if i did.... :D

No idea. Are they really publishers or what? Not that many..they can't be.


Sometimes I think we europeans are fucked, no matter what we do. Yep, me too. All those centuries old niggles ( to put it midly lol) stop everyone concentrating on the now.

Except for the French. We can niggle at them allll day long :D

[Bookewyrme]

Let's get one thing cleared up.

I'm half-Italian, born in Scotland with an Irish surname.

So yeah. Bit of a mongrel, then.

I actually just met someone who is half Irish, half Iranian (apparently with some Indian blood and some British back in the ancestry somewhere) and currently living in Northern England. If you're not careful, you brits are gonna end up as mixed up as us Americans! ;)

And yes I know, I did just equate Irish and British, but even while I'm here with outsiders eyes, the only real difference between all you Islanders is the accent. :Shrug:

[James D. Macdonald]

I'd be pleased to have a wee dram with the lot of you.

[Albannach]

[QUOTE=Albannach;4340004]



Sadly they do. Far too often. *sigh* It's a right bugger being the bad guy just because you were born south of some arbitrary line.

Was I? - You seemed a little that way before I posted even - one reason for the facetious 'Take Brown Back' comment. It wasn't meant in any strident way ( please see my sig - 9 times out of ten I'm not being 100% serious. I wasn't being 1% serious there. Unless you want him? :D). Apologies if you took it that way.



I just have a jaundiced view of all MPs. I make no distinctions. That was my point.




There's people in Portsmouth don't want them there either. They don't get a choice either. Really, the English get screwed by the Government just as much as you do. They aren't sitting in Parliament thinking 'What shall we do to piss off the Scots today? Oh I know, let's put a Naval Base there!' *thinks for a second* Okay, probably not. See my above point about MPs.

At least you get to blame it on a handy Government you don't see as yours. I'm bloody stuck with it - ENglish people screwing me, a ( mostly) English person. Unless I can get a Devolve Sussex Now campaign going. hmmmm maybe if i did.... :D

Not that many..they can't be.


Yep, me too. All those centuries old niggles ( to put it midly lol) stop everyone concentrating on the now.

Except for the French. We can niggle at them allll day long :D
Oh, well, the unionist press tends to be one of my pet peeves so I may have been a bit strident about The Guardian which is a bit strident in turn in regard to nationalism. I wasn't expressing a dislike of the English just journalists who are one-sided which happens all over the world.

Nationalism isn't a "niggle" for me. Nationalists form the government up my way because we worked hard to get this far. It is very much today.

I see English complain all the time about Scots having a devolved government and have to ask--well, why haven't YOU worked for one? It took us about a hundred years of struggle.

I agree that they don't *try* to piss off the Scots; they just don't *care* if they piss off the Scots. We aren't large enough in number to kick them into the long grass and don't bring up that a lot of Scots still vote Labour because I do NOT understand that. :rant:

Anyway when it comes to the English (I don't normally call them Sassenach--only on special occasion ;) ) I have no hard feelings. We both have our problems; I just think we'll both be better off running our own countries.

Which yes, is WILDLY off topic.

By the way, Medievalist, you're right that it is a loaned word but it's been absorbed into the language so one might as well consider it Gaelic. And it did originally mean Saxon but I believe one could safely say that they meaning has evolved. :)

[JoNightshade]

:popcorn: I am finding this thread utterly fascinating. I had no idea y'all squabbled amongst yourselves just as much as Americans do.

I'm not really surprised, though. ;)

[Albannach]

I'd be pleased to have a wee dram with the lot of you.

I'll share if you have a taste for Laphroaig. :)

[IdiotsRUs]

[QUOTE=IdiotsRUs;4340053]
Oh, well, the unionist press tends to be one of my pet peeves so I may have been a bit strident about The Guardian which is a bit strident in turn in regard to nationalism. I wasn't expressing a dislike of the English just journalists who are one-sided which happens all over the world.

Ahhh. All becomes clear, the bit about 'their' intellectualism etc was what put me off the scent.

Nationalism isn't a "niggle" for me. They run the government up my way because we worked hard to get this far. It is very much today.

Woah, woah, I never said it was a niggle! I meant all the bad blood between all the nations for things that happened decades / centuries ago. Which is completly different from a devolved Scotland ( well, unless you're using that as your reason for wanting it *shrug* I don't expect you are though).

I see English complain all the time about Scots having a devolved government and have to ask--well, why haven't YOU worked for one? It took us about a hundred years of struggle.

Really - as you said about the Scots not saying it to me, most of the English I know would be more than happy for the Scots to have a devolved Government.

I agree that they don't *try* to piss off the Scots; they just don't *care* if they piss off the Scots.


They don't care if they piss off the English either. Like I said, they ain't picking on just you.



Anyway when it comes to the English (I don't normally call them Sassenach--only on special occasion ;) ) I have no hard feelings. We both have our problems; I just think we'll both be better off running our own countries.

Fairy Nuff.

Which yes, is WILDLY off topic. Off topic is my middle name :D

[Albannach]

Let's get one thing cleared up.

I'm half-Italian, born in Scotland with an Irish surname.

So yeah. Bit of a mongrel, then.

The only thing that would make you a MORE typical Scot then would be if you wore a turban. ;)

[gothicangel]

I'm from Northumbria and proud to be a Viking!

James, make it some Brown Ale and you're on.

[Albannach]

Woah, woah, I never said it was a niggle! I meant all the bad blood between all the nations for things that happened decades / centuries ago. Which is completly different from a devolved Scotland ( well, unless you're using that as your reason for wanting it *shrug* I don't expect you are though).
Oh, I didn't think you were but a lot of people are reading this thread who have NO clue what devolution is, what the Act of Union is, or WHAT the devil we're nattering on about. So I was clearing that up. ;)

I agree on the bad blood thing. Totally. I'll celebrate winning Bannockburn or weep over the site of Wallace's execution because I respect their struggle NOT because I want to re-fight old battles or keep old hatreds alive.

Time to put that behind us and get about our business.

[jinap]

All the english are ultimately Danes anyway.

First King Knut (you call him Canute, for some reason) conquered Yorkshire and established the Danelaw. Then Hrólfr went and conquered Normandy, and would spawn William I about 100 years after conquest, and he'd finish England off as an independent state. :)

This silly independence you insist on must end. You're all really danish.

I prefer to subscribe to the view that we're all (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_%28Australopithecus%29) Ethiopians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardi).

[scarletpeaches]

We're all Iraqi, given the probably location of the Garden of Eden.

[James D. Macdonald]

I'll share if you have a taste for Laphroaig. :)

That I do! One of my favorites.

I'm from Northumbria and proud to be a Viking!

James, make it some Brown Ale and you're on.

Newcastle Brown? Got some right here.

[maxmordon]

People form England, Scotland, Northern and Southern Ireland and whatever isles surround them (Yes, including Rockall) please don't fight among yourselves and join in harmony and peace to commonly hate the smelly, stripe-wearing Gibberish-speaking haughty Napoleonic drunk pink onion-selling frogs from accross the channel!

[Albannach]

That I do! One of my favorites.



Newcastle Brown? Got some right here.


A man of impeccable taste. Sláinte

[Medievalist]

I blame the deline of the novel for European decadence!

Oh, right, yeah that. I forgot my Puritan heritage, and what not.

Also, Celts RULE!

Oh. Did I say that out loud?

[Albannach]

People form England, Scotland, Northern and Southern Ireland and whatever isles surround them (Yes, including Rockall) please don't fight among yourselves and join in harmony and peace to commonly hate the smelly, stripe-wearing Gibberish-speaking haughty Napoleonic drunk pink onion-selling frogs from accross the channel!
I believe you're speaking of people with whom we have an auld alliance. Now we never could turn our backs on them without their disappearing from the fight. But still... mustn't blame their decedents. Flodden Field isn't THEIR fault.

[James D. Macdonald]

Also, Celts RULE!


You did.

Celts rule! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5oNd6RziDo)

[maxmordon]

I believe you're speaking of people with whom we have an auld alliance. Now we never could turn our backs on them without their disappearing from the fight. But still... mustn't blame their decedents. Flodden Field isn't THEIR fault.

Um... this feels like a Les Luthiers routine. What about Turkmenistan? You could have had a... heck, what do I know? A border dispute or a boycott on Turkmenistani cotton...

[Judg]

Can I be an honorary Scot? I mean, I've got freckles and a red-haired brother. My mother was a Crosby and her mother was Icelandic. And the other side of the family is descended from Norman stock, who were just displaced Vikings anyway. (Sounds Scottish to me: a mix of Scandinavian and miscellaneous British...)

And I married an Italian, and we all know Scotland is crawling with them. Whenever I google my boys' names, I get Scottish soccer players...

I can't do the accent though. Sorry. And I seriously don't get the politics, although I do have a foggy clue what devolved government is.

I don't expect novels to die any time soon. They will undoubtedly outlast the Guardian, and probably the NYT too.

[James D. Macdonald]

I can't do the accent though.

Just to help you out (http://www.paidmyre.demon.co.uk/)....

[Maxinquaye]

Can I be an honorary Scot? I mean, I've got freckles and a red-haired brother. My mother was a Crosby and her mother was Icelandic. And the other side of the family is descended from Norman stock, who were just displaced Vikings anyway. (Sounds Scottish to me: a mix of Scandinavian and miscellaneous British...)

And I married an Italian, and we all know Scotland is crawling with them. Whenever I google my boys' names, I get Scottish soccer players...

I can't do the accent though. Sorry. And I seriously don't get the politics, although I do have a foggy clue what devolved government is.

I don't expect novels to die any time soon. They will undoubtedly outlast the Guardian, and probably the NYT too.

Tá mé leithscéal sin, Iníon, ach tú atá curtha, curtha in eagar chun an campa gaelach. Bhí sé an ghruaig dearg agus an freckles go raibh sé. Tá tú a thosú le hól Guinness anois, agus spraoi an píopa.

:)

(Yay for Google translate!)

[maxmordon]

Croeso Bach.

Dolch.

[Judg]

Just to help you out (http://www.paidmyre.demon.co.uk/)....

:D Uncle Jim, ever helpful

Tá mé leithscéal sin, Iníon, ach tú atá curtha, curtha in eagar chun an campa gaelach. Bhí sé an ghruaig dearg agus an freckles go raibh sé. Tá tú a thosú le hól Guinness anois, agus spraoi an píopa.

:)

(Yay for Google translate!)
Yikes...

So you're saying I've been rejected? *sniff*

[Albannach]

Just to help you out (http://www.paidmyre.demon.co.uk/)....

:roll:Best not to try to talk like a Scot.

Here's what some of us sound like. The ones who can sing that is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2aUiYt4whA
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2aUiYt4whA)

[Judg]

:roll:Best not to try to talk like a Scot.

Here's what some of us sound like. The ones who can sing that is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2aUiYt4whA
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2aUiYt4whA)
Not to worry. I won't try until I've been surrounded by enough Scots that it starts rubbing off effortlessly. And that's not too likely to happen.

Mandolin-playing Scots?

[Albannach]

Not to worry. I won't try until I've been surrounded by enough Scots that it starts rubbing off effortlessly. And that's not too likely to happen.

Mandolin-playing Scots?
Of course. Scots play a lot of different instruments. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgskbClWZ68&feature=related

Hah. No, you won't understand most of it. But it's one of my old favorites.

Edit: Anyway... I think we're all agreed. Novels are not dying. ;)

[Judg]

Of course you do. I just wouldn't have thought of associating mandolins with Scottish folkies. But that's probably just a lack of imagination on my part. Or ignorance.

They should switch to balalaikas... :D

[Medievalist]

Iechyd da!

[maxmordon]

Na Zdrowie, Medievalista.

[Judg]

Iechyd da!
Ac iechyd da i chi hefyd, forwyn deg.

[maxmordon]

Whisky ist whisky, non important idiom voo sprache.

[Maxinquaye]

Ik denk dat dit weer van de draad in feite betekent dat het klaar

[Medievalist]

Ac iechyd da i chi hefyd, forwyn deg.

OY!

[James D. Macdonald]

They should switch to balalaikas....

Here's Henry Martin in the original Russian (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHSoev-CONo).

Or, back to the whiskey thread: Rye Whiskey (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWFJdu1lURM). Rye whiskey is American, and Nick Cave is Australian, but what the heck, right?

I have a bunch more writing to do tonight. On a novel. Which had better not be dead.

[maxmordon]

Salud, mis amigos, salud. Brindemos por los irlandeses, los ingleses, los escoseses y hasta los galeses.

[Maxinquaye]

Here's Henry Martin in the original Russian (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHSoev-CONo).

Yuss. That brings back memories (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ2E4cf46nw). :P

[James D. Macdonald]

y hasta los galeses.

Hasta el gato....

[maxmordon]

Hasta el gato....

¡Sí! Siempre olvidan al gato...

[maxmordon]

Damn, I know it's a bit out of place but I can't hold it:

Primo pro nummata vini,
ex hac bibunt libertini;
semel bibunt pro captivis,
post hec bibunt ter pro vivis,
quater pro Christianis cunctis
quinquies pro fidelibus defunctis,
sexies pro sororibus vanis,
septies pro militibus silvanis.

Octies pro fratribus perversis,
nonies pro monachis dispersis,
decies pro navigantibus
undecies pro discordantibus,
duodecies pro penitentibus,
tredecies pro iter agentibus.
Tam pro papa quam pro rege
bibunt omnes sine lege.

Bibit hera, bibit herus,
bibit miles, bibit clerus,
bibit ille, bibit illa,
bibit servus cum ancilla,
bibit velox, bibit piger,
bibit albus, bibit niger,
bibit constans, bibit vagus,
bibit rudis, bibit magus.

Bibit pauper et egrotus,
bibit exul et ignotus,
bibit puer, bibit canus,
bibit presul et decanus,
bibit soror, bibit frater,
bibit anus, bibit mater,
bibit ista, bibit ille,
bibunt centum, bibunt mille.

[Medievalist]

And there we have the middle ages in a nutshell, or at least, a wine skin.

[Judg]

This thread derails in the most intriguing directions... I think I'm losing count of the languages.

I knew I should have finished that Latin course.

[Maxinquaye]

Since we seem to derail the thread all over the place with whereever the association lead. From wine to love then - and writing :)


For mighty wars I thought to tune my lute,
And make my measures to my subject suit.
Six feet for ev'ry verse the muse design'd,
But Cupid laughing, when he saw my mind,
From ev'ry second verse a foot purloin'd.
"Who gave thee, boy, this arbitrary sway,
On subjects, not thy own, commands to lay,
Who Phoebus only, and his laws obey ?
'Tis more absurd, than if the queen of love
Should in Minerva's arms to battle move;
Or manly Pallas from that queen should take
Her torch, and o'er the dying lover shake.
In fields as well may Cynthia sow the corn,
Or Ceres wind in woods the bugle-horn;
As well may Phoebus quit the trembling string,
For sword and shield; and Mars may learn to sing.
Already thy dominions are too large;
Be not ambitious of a foreign charge.
If thou wilt reign o'er all, and ev'ry where,
The god of music for his harp may fear.
Thus when with soaring wings I seek renown,
Thou pluck'st my pinions, and I flutter down.
Could I on such mean thoughts my muse employ,
I want a mistress, or a blooming boy."
Thus I complain'd; his bow the stripling bent,
And chose an arrow fit for his intent.
The shaft his purpose fatally pursues;
" Now, poet, there's a subject for thy muse,"
He said: (too well, alas, he knows his trade,)
For in my breast a mortal wound he made.
Far hence ye proud Hexameters remove,
My verse is pac'd, and tramell'd into love.
With myrtle wreaths my thoughtful brows enclose,
While in unequal verse I sing my woes.

[Medievalist]

This thread derails in the most intriguing directions... I think I'm losing count of the languages.

All the good stuff is pre-orthography :D

[Albannach]

I edited two chapters! :D

[Cliff Face]

Just to add some Australian to the mix:

Strewth and crikey you ring-tailed jabberwocky, that be one of them drop bears, fella.

Not quite as interesting, but there you go.

[LuckyH]

Well, well. . .I went to bed last night and missed all the fun. And what have I done this morning?

You guessed it. I’ve read the Guardian and the New York Times while my writing lies idle.

That’s the trouble with being such a badly bred mongrel, if I were to weep at all the places my genes tell me to, I’d be sobbing my heart out all the way back to Ethiopia.

[Albannach]

I'm not sure what you are implying by that comment. I will choose not to consider it an insult.

[aruna]

I'm a mongrel too: Scottish, English, Spanish, African, Dutch and Amerindian.

And I read mostly the Independent but also everything else.

[Priene]

I'm a Guardian-reading Englishman, and I spend most of my days getting so infuriated about Scottish devolution that I soil my pants.

[gothicangel]

Now if only Holyrood would get infuriated about Scotland's economic problems . . .

[Priene]

Now if only Holyrood would get infuriated about Scotland's economic problems . . .

Holyrood's probably still thanking its lucky stars that RBS went under on Westminster's watch, not its own.

[James D. Macdonald]

For those playing at home (with drop bears) RBS is Royal Bank of Scotland.

[SPMiller]

Oh, how fun it was in high school reading the bawdy Latin poems set to music in Carmina Burana. That was the perfect task for high schoolers. Pretty fun to perform as a musician, too. It's almost like Orff didn't know the range for the F Horn--either that, or he just didn't care.

[Bookewyrme]

Aaah. Carmina Burana. Such beautiful music. Such naughty naughty lyrics.....exactly how it should be!

This thread is one of my very favorites right now!
*continues lurking*

[IdiotsRUs]

Am I too late for the toasts?

Here, have a traditional Sussex one:

Apples be ripe
nuts be brown
petticoats up
trousers down.

I thank you.

[scarletpeaches]

That's...that's just beautiful, man. *sniffs*

[swvaughn]

Off topic is my middle name :D

IdiotsOffTopicRUs? Has a nice ring to it. :D

[Birol]

I'm at work and will not have a chance to do a full review until lunch time, but I trust my fellow mods when they tell me this thread has jumped the shark. Closing it now. :)