A question for Editors and "Uncle Jim"

[David McAfee]

Hello, I have just finished my book and begun the query process. I posted a chapter in the Horror section of "Share Your Work". In this chapter, on of the secondary "mentor" characters is telling his story to the principle character, and to illustrate the change in voice (since the whole novel is first person), I utilized a different font, specifically Century Gothic, which I felt particularly suited the story. The rest of the book is done in Arial.
I have just been informed that font is an issue with some (all?) editors, and that most prefer Times New Roman or Courier. Please don't mistake my question for sarcasm, but is this sort of thing really that big a deal? I'll change the font if I have to, but I don't particularly want to, especially the section written in Century Gothic, since (to me) it just seems to fit so well.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, and if you'd care to see what I am talking about the post is still in the Horror section (warning, it's a long post, I put in the whole Chapter 10).

[scfirenice]

David,
I'm not an editor, or Uncle Jim, but the font question has to do with true 12 point fonts and yes they are a big deal. When the type setter goes to put the book into print, any other fonts will not translate and are not accepted. Part of formating the thing correctly is using one of those true fonts. If you need to differentiate between speakers, try underlining the text which would let the typesetter know to put it in italics. Maybe Uncle Jim has better advice, but this has been my experience.
S

[Mistook]

If the writing can't hold up without fancy font changes, you've definitely got a problem. That's like saying the story only works on slate colored linen paper. They aren't concerned with cosmetics. They want to see that you can write.

[Jamesaritchie]

Hello, I have just finished my book and begun the query process. I posted a chapter in the Horror section of "Share Your Work". In this chapter, on of the secondary "mentor" characters is telling his story to the principle character, and to illustrate the change in voice (since the whole novel is first person), I utilized a different font, specifically Century Gothic, which I felt particularly suited the story. The rest of the book is done in Arial.
I have just been informed that font is an issue with some (all?) editors, and that most prefer Times New Roman or Courier. Please don't mistake my question for sarcasm, but is this sort of thing really that big a deal? I'll change the font if I have to, but I don't particularly want to, especially the section written in Century Gothic, since (to me) it just seems to fit so well.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, and if you'd care to see what I am talking about the post is still in the Horror section (warning, it's a long post, I put in the whole Chapter 10).

Most prefer Courier. Your manuscript is not going to be published. The font used in your manuscript is there for editing purposes only. The pubisher chooses the font for the published novel, and it will almost certainly bear no resemblance to any font you put in the manuscript.

Your manuscript will eventually be returned to you, edited to death, or it will simply be thrown away. Manuscripts aren't about looks, they're about being easy to edit.

Having said this, condidering the choice of the fonts, you'r manuscript isn't likely to be rejected because of this, though I know a couple of editors who would take one look and reach for a rejection, but most won't.

But, yes, it can be a big deal. Editors don't ask for things in a certain way to be petty. They have reasons. If you novel sells, some editor is going to scribble all over it, and will need room between words and letters and sentences to put in proofreaders' marks, notes, all sorts of goodies, which is why Courier works well, and why you double space everything.. And someone is going to have to typeset the thing, which is why you underline instead of using italices.

The manuscript is disposable. It won't be used. This means how it looks is not important. How easy it is to edit and typeset means everything. So follow the guidelines and make the agents and editors out there happy.

[David McAfee]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I have changed the font to TNR.

James, if you don't mind helping me out with another quick question, I just got my first request for more material (I don't count Stylus, for obvious reasons). The agent asked for the first three chapters and a detailed synopsis. How "detailed" should a synopsis be? Should I summarize the whole book in short paragraphs, letting the agent know how it ends? Or should the synopsis be more akin to the query. Giving just enough information to tease without giving everything away.

Also, what is a good reply? I was thinking something along the lines of "Thank you for your interest. Attached please find the three chapters and detailed synopsis you requested. I hope you enjoy them, and I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,"

Well, you get the rest.... I hate to ask, and I hate feeling like I need so much direction, but this is the first thing I have ever submitted anywhere, and I just don't know what would be appropriate to say.

[pdr]

David, if your script is going to an American publisher I think you need to use 12 point Courier. Uncle Jim will probably arrive soon and tell you that.

Times New Roman is not a plain (san serrif) font and most editors find it hard to work with. Why not use italics for your mentor's story?

What to the publishers' guidelines ask you to do?

[Jamesaritchie]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I have changed the font to TNR.

James, if you don't mind helping me out with another quick question, I just got my first request for more material (I don't count Stylus, for obvious reasons). The agent asked for the first three chapters and a detailed synopsis. How "detailed" should a synopsis be? Should I summarize the whole book in short paragraphs, letting the agent know how it ends? Or should the synopsis be more akin to the query. Giving just enough information to tease without giving everything away.

Also, what is a good reply? I was thinking something along the lines of "Thank you for your interest. Attached please find the three chapters and detailed synopsis you requested. I hope you enjoy them, and I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,"

Well, you get the rest.... I hate to ask, and I hate feeling like I need so much direction, but this is the first thing I have ever submitted anywhere, and I just don't know what would be appropriate to say.

That's like asking how long a line should be, but generally speaking, a long synospis is about five pages, single spaced. That's enough detail for anyone.

Always reveal the ending. You should do this, even in a query. Teasing is usually just a way to draw a fast rejection. Agents and eidtors need to know how a novel ends. It's an important part of the novel, and you should never make them guess.

As for font, Courier 10 point or 12 pitch is the standard, not TNR. TNR is too small, too cramped to edit easily, and it doesn't give the same spacing as Courier 12.

[David McAfee]

Thank you again for the advice. Courier it is.

[triceretops]

David, I'm sorry I didn't catch that in the crit. You might be able to Italisize that passage.

[David McAfee]

Tri, like I'm gonna hold that against you. So far as I know, you are the only one who read the whole thing. :) Thanks again for doing that, BTW, I know it was pretty long. I have changed the font to Courier, and later on (tomorrow, actually) I will finish the revamp by italicizing Ramah's part in the chapter.

Man, I love Word. You can do all that stuff in a snap! :)

[WriterInChains]

OK, this feels like a dumb question but I'll ask it anyway:

Is Courier New OK, or is it the kiss of death like the aforementioned newspaper fonts?

I'm all for giving agents/editors/etc. whatever they ask for, but my new-ish computer only has Courier New.

I've read that Georgia is also a true 12-pt font. Anyone care to comment on its use in queries or ms submissions?

[Aconite]

caren1701, Courier New is fine. Courier, Courier New, and Courier Dark are all monospaced, so they're fine for calculating word count (everybody here knows that "word count" is not the number of actual words in your manuscript, right?), and they're easy to read and edit. You don't have to use monospaced fonts for queries (they won't be edited, and it doesn't matter what their word count is), so TNR or some other common font is fine.

[James D. Macdonald]

Use Courier, or Courier New, ten or twelve point, double spaced, with one-inch margins all around.

Unless the guidelines say differently.

Meanwhile, if the book is accepted, you'll have lots of time to discuss with your editor whether to use a different font for one section.

I'm aware of a book that's in production right this instant that alternates fonts between chapters. Really. All you have to do is convince the editor that it's worth the trouble for production.

For my outlines, I keep to ten pages single spaced or less -- and reveal all the major plot points and the ending. (How else are they to tell whether you have a plot and a climax?)

"To find out what happens read this book" is so very grade-school-book-reportish. The public will never see your synopsis. This is a working document for use between professionals involved in book production.

[WriterInChains]

Thanks, Aconite, I thought so but have read/heard so much conflicting advice regarding the query/ms submission process it's hard to know what to listen to sometimes.


What about 11 point Courier New? I know, it's a bit nit-picky, but 11 point will save me at least 5 pages [over 12 pt] every time I submit the first three chapters & looks very read-able to me. I'm assuming that since I've heard "10 or 12 point" so many times that 11 will be OK, but I'd rather hear it from someone who's actually had a novel published before I send out chapters. This process is much more complicated than submitting short stories!

Thanks to everyone who's helped me so far, I've learned a lot on this forum & I'm sure it's just the beginning! http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/EmoteSun.gif

[Aconite]

What about 11 point Courier New? I know, it's a bit nit-picky, but 11 point will save me at least 5 pages [over 12 pt] every time I submit the first three chapters & looks very read-able to me.

I wouldn't use 11 point. Editors want a standard format (so they can estimate word count, among other things). 10 and 12 point are standard; 11 isn't. (Five pages of 24-pound paper weigh about one ounce, which is less than thirty cents in postage for domestic first-class mail. And editors have such huge piles of papers on their desks, and floors, and chairs, and windowsills, that five pages one way or another isn't going to make an impression.)

There really is an amazing amount of information in this forum, isn't there? If you haven't already, read the Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread all the way through. It's got everything you need to know and stuff you never even knew to wonder about. It's long, but worth it.

[WriterInChains]

That's what my gut told me [10 or 12 only], but I had to get a second opinion. 10 pt Courier New makes me squint a little, so I think I'll stick with 12. Just trying to save a tree or two, and maybe my future agent's eyesight. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

I've been working my way through that Uncle Jim thread for a while now, a bit at a time. Thanks for the suggestion, though, it really is a great source of info.

Have a great day! http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[brinkett]

That's what my gut told me [10 or 12 only], but I had to get a second opinion. 10 pt Courier New makes me squint a little, so I think I'll stick with 12.

Courier 10 looked so small when I first tried it, but now that I've used it for a while, I couldn't imagine going back to 12. I only use 12 to estimate word count or if the submission guidelines want it. 10 also results in less paper.

[Jamesaritchie]

Courier 10 looked so small when I first tried it, but now that I've used it for a while, I couldn't imagine going back to 12. I only use 12 to estimate word count or if the submission guidelines want it. 10 also results in less paper.

Well, Courier 12 is the standard everywhere I've dealt with. Courier 10 pitch is the same thing as Courier 12 point. Most modern word processors use the point measurement, rather than pitch, so Courier 12 is usually best. It's also easir to read and to edit.

Saving paper is not a good thing to an editor.

[brinkett]

Yeah, I only use 10 if the guidelines specifically say you can. If they just say "Courier", I use 12. I've noticed guidelines sometimes allow TNR. Given the choice, I still use Courier.