A question about prologues.

[longgd2]

Is a 14+ page prologue too long?

[inanna]

Because I'll be in the same boat as you, as mine is 15 pages. My theory (or wishful thinking, take your pick) is that if you can grab a reader from the first paragraph or two and keep them turning the pages, then what does it matter?

I find that when I'm reading something especially engrossing, I lose track of time, and I definitely don't count pages. Whether editors and agents feel the same way...I'm sure others know better and will have some good advice. :)

[AdamH]

I've read prologues that have gone on longer that and have been completely enthralled. I've also read prologues that are only a few pages long that felt like I was wading through molasses.

The short answer to your question: it all depends. If it's an attention grabber, it doesn't matter the number of pages.

Hope that helps! :)

-Adam

[My-Immortal]

I'm just curious - does it need to be a prologue? Can it be chapter one or is there a great time difference between your 'prologue' and your 'chapter one'?

Good luck with your writing. :)

[Bufty]

Would a prologue of 14+ pages be too long in length?

In my humble opinion - yes, unless you are writing an enormous tome, but even so the question that needs to be answered is - do you need a prologue?

Seems to me that if it's not essential or simply a whole stack of background facts or not done properly all you are doing is jolting your reader when the story proper begins.

Is it there for a definite purpose, does there have to be a prologue, or is it being done just because it seems like a good idea? Are you sure you are starting your novel at the right point? Does the prologue contain information that could just as easily and more effectively be fed in later?

Just some thoughts.

[maestrowork]

I'm not a big fan of prologue, and certainly not a long 15-page one. But if it's riveting and it hooks the readers right away, why not? I would suggest this: Is the prologue necessary? Can you make it Chapter 1? I mean if your prologue is just one long info dump or back story, you risk losing your readers in page 3 and they will never read the rest, or they'll just skip to the prologue and go straight to chapter 1. And if the prologue is part of the story and really well-done, then why not make it Chapter 1?

[MarkPettus]

That's an impossible question to answer objectively. Five pages might be too long, 100 pages might not be. Does it keep the reader engaged?

I suspect you're asking because you know it doesn't. If so, then you already know your answer. Rather than shortening your prologue, try improving your prologue. A prologue is what goes before, the story before the story. Make it an interesting story and the reader will let you have as many pages as you need.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[reph]

too long in length
Um, longgd2, if the prologue is written the same way your post is, a careful review might uncover places where you can shorten it.

[Dawno]

In the Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread there are several posts about prologues. Jim notes in one (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=83027&postcount=740): That being said: If you leave it as a prologue, half your readers won't read it.

That being said, I've used prologues in my own works about half the time.

We've been talking about rules? There are no rules. There are only guidelines, some of them stronger than others.

While most people are having great fun skiing down the slope on skis, every once in a while you'll see someone gliding up the slope on an ironing board and making it look easy.

"It works" trumps everything.

btw, I've indexed the whole thread (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8754)so you can search the index for keywords and find more info. It's a sticky at the top of this forum.

[Danger Jane]

I bet this'll be a giant debate within the next two hours.

Prologues can turn off people simply by their name. If there's any way to cut down, that'd probably be good. Sometimes the information it seems so important to throw in a somewhat random beginning can just as easily find its way in chapter four, when it's actually necessary information.

However.

Sometimes they're necessary. Sometimes the story starts before the STORY starts, but the prologue is plot, too. You are the ultimate judge.

[aruna]

There have been several threads on this forum about prologues. Here are a few:

Do people read prologues?
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17402&highlight=prologues

How long should a prologue be?
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17155&highlight=prologues

Being stalked by an angry prologue:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13505&highlight=prologues

[blacbird]

Everybody seems to be dancing around the central question: Why do you need to call it a "prologue"? Make it Chapter 1, and proceed.

bird

[MarkPettus]

If your prologue segues into your next chapter, then calling it Chapter 1 shouldn't be a problem.

I changed my prologue to Chapter 1 (following Uncle Jim's general advice), until 3 different editors told me to change it back. A prologue is a prologue. Don't be afraid of using it when you need to. Steve Berry's last book opened at number 13 on the NYTBS list, and when I asked him if he ever had trouble getting people to read his prologues, he looked at me like I was nuts. "Not if I write a good one."

If you write it well, most readers will go along with you (do be aware of who your readers are... my target reader may not respond the same way yours will).

Relabeling may also be successful if, instead of calling it a prologue, you give it a title (or if you title all of your chapters).

Know This, Brave Knight,
Lest My Story Seem Fantastic

[blacbird]

I can't see any good reason why you HAVE to call anything a "prologue". I think the word itself carries a tinge of stuffy pretension, and I think that may be why some readers either dislike prologues, or skip them. It has little to do with content. In any case, the beginning of your story has to grab the attention of the reader, whether you call it a prologue or not.

bird

[HConn]

Maybe someone mentioned this already, but there are two kinds of prologs. One is a scene or sequence that sets up the rest of the story. The other kind is an infodump like the history of the Galactic Hegemony and a listing of the 9 Noble Houses and their Dominion Worlds (complete with tech levels and primary exports.)

The first kind can be relabeled Chapter 1. The second should be cut altogether.

[beezle]

Now, if my horrible mess of a WIP had a rather lengthy prologue set some 500 years before the events of the bulk of the story, but still shared one important character between them? Does that sound like a waste of time, and a waste of a good oportunity to introduce the readers to my protagonist? I can't imagine renaming it chapter one, i don't consider it an info dump, but geez, i just had so much fun writing it.

[Bufty]

Now, if my horrible mess of a WIP had a rather lengthy prologue set some 500 years before the events of the bulk of the story, but still shared one important character between them? Does that sound like a waste of time, and a waste of a good oportunity to introduce the readers to my protagonist? I can't imagine renaming it chapter one, i don't consider it an info dump, but geez, i just had so much fun writing it.

One usually does have fun writing a prologue. You may not consider it an infodump and think it is a good way to introduce your character, but because by definition a prologue is background and history, the crunch question remains - is it absolutely necessary for the reader to know all this history and background in advance, in preference to meeting and finding out about the character and past events as the story unfolds?

[longgd2]

Should I just change my prologue to chapter 1 if it is about the protagonist's father, takes place seven years prior start of the story and helps setup the events?

[inanna]

Should I just change my prologue to chapter 1 if it is about the protagonist's father, takes place seven years prior start of the story and helps setup the events?

I imagine others will disagree, but I'm still saying "No". I think what you've described is a good example of exactly what belongs in a prologue (provided it's not chock full of unnecessary info-dumping) and frankly, I'm a little puzzled by the aversion some seem to have to them.

I haven't read your story, so I'm guessing, but if you were to change it to Chapter 1, and then leave the character of the father behind to focus on the son for awhile, the reader might become puzzled, as you have set up an expectation that the father is a main character. IMHO, I think it could be jarring to shift to the son's POV, and then distracting as the reader wonders and waits to hear about the father. We tend to connect with the characters to whom we are introduced first.

That's why (again, IMHO as an unpublished writer :)) prologues exist. The American Heritage Dictionary defines one as "an introductory act, event, or period". If yours meets that criteria and isn't boring, then I think it should remain a prologue.

I hope that wasn't a rant...:mad::)

[Bufty]

I'm a little puzzled by the aversion some seem to have to them.


I don't think it's an aversion to one. It's just that some folks think they have to have a Prologue before thinking through what a prologue really is, and reasoning out whether it is necessary to have one or if the telling of the tale would benefit from the information being imparted later in a different or even better manner.

In other words, particularly where first-time novels are concerned, a prologue is often used for no other reason than the fact that the information exists and it 'seems like a good idea'.

[longgd2]

Just wanted to say thanks for everyone's advice.

[inanna]

I don't think it's an aversion to one. It's just that some folks think they have to have a Prologue before thinking through what a prologue really is, and reasoning out whether it is necessary to have one or if the telling of the tale would benefit from the information being imparted later in a different or even better manner.

In other words, particularly where first-time novels are concerned, a prologue is often used for no other reason than the fact that the information exists and it 'seems like a good idea'.

I agree, and I'm thinking that maybe a lot of people have burned by bad prologues in the past, especially those of the info-dump variety. But someone metioned in another thread (Aruna, maybe?) that trying to weave her prologue into the main story would (and I'm paraphrasing) make for more awkward moments of info-dump. You know, those "she suddenly remembered the day when..." kind of moments. Yuck.

Bad prologues suck, but if the prologue is interesting and has something the reader needs to know ahead of time, then why shouldn't it be there?

[Bufty]

Bad prologues suck, but if the prologue is interesting and has something the reader needs to know ahead of time, then why shouldn't it be there?

No reason at all.:flag:

[reph]

How many REALLY CLASSIC novels have prologues?

[alleycat]

I decide on a book-by-book basis. My first inclination is to skip a prologue unless it's relatively short; seems relevent (in other words, appears to contain information that will contribute to the richness of the story; and not just the writer "setting the stage" ); and is well-written.

And In classics where some scholar has written an introduction, I skip it but sometimes go back and read it after I've read the book.

I'm not arguing for and against prologues; that's just my opinion as a reader.

ac

[britwrit]

I think one of the things that makes a prologue a prologue instead of Chapter One is if the novel is further divided into parts. Part I... Part II... That way it's part of the structure and not just tacked on...

[Beyondian]

I don't personally always read prologues, but I do have one in my novel. As Mdlle Nancy said, 'sometimes the story starts before the STORY starts'. My prologue is short and needs to be seperated from the main body of the novel. Yet, it is also something that the reader really does need to know. IMHO this is one instance where prologues do work.

[rbflynn]

From someone who has yet to publish a novel, so take it for what it's worth :)

As a reader, I almost always read prologues. Or at least start to read them. If they hold me, excellent. If they don't, I'll skim through them and get the general "jist" of what the author is saying. Info-dumps are usually what I end up skimming through, and I have gone back mid-story to see if I missed something that is confusing me.

As a writer, I have written a prologue for every piece I have done greater than 3000 words. In only 1 instance has the prologue survived beyond the first draft, and that was when I realized, because of the prologue, that I was telling the wrong story (or more accurate, that I was more interested in telling a different story than the one I had originally intended).

I use them as a writing tool, setting the stage for the story I am going to tell. Many times, the contents of the prologue I employ later in the piece, but more often than not the prologue mainly helps me create a firm voice to use for the full story. Once I find that voice, and go through my first edit, I usually find that the contents of the prologue are either unnecessary or better implemented as part of the story itself.

[Danger Jane]

If the prologue, whatever is there, figures into the rest of the story in such a way that renaming it would be choppy or just weird, then...it's nothing but a word. Like if the prologue and the "rest of the story" take place in different times, but the prologue time is revisited...sure, call it a prologue. Or even take off a label altogether and now it's story before the story that isn't a prologue, and isn't chapter 1.

[TeddyG]

I am really a newbie on this board, but possibly have something to add on this topic. Prologues, as has already been said, should NOT just be there for the sake of the "prologue". For instance, they are used in fantasy literature a great deal, and indeed do serve a purpose. Often, it is not an immediate purpose. Sometimes, it may be that the reader is being introduced to an overall scheme of things which needs to be explained out of the context of the normative chapter flow. If it is simply Chapter One, then call it Chapter One. Don't call it a prologue because somehow it seems "classier" or "better".However, if you do go with a prologue, think of it as your CHAPTER ONE. After all this is where the reader is going to be introduced into your world and whatever subject you are writing about. It must be engrossing, riviting - keep the reader turning the pages.

In a non-fiction book I was working on a couple of years ago (whose contract was cancelled by Doubleday .. takes a moment to sigh), my editor at Doubleday, emailed me and said, "Ted we need a prologue." I was kind of shocked, but the book was about a recent war in Israel, and he wanted a prologue to introduce the reader to the "physical" landscape. As he put it, before the real action starts, "I want the reader seeing the landscape". I was more than happy to obligize, since he also gave me literary freedom in the prologue itself.

Now, since that book was cancelled, I cannot say if he was right or wrong, though it was not cancelled due to the prologue! However, it did teach me that there is a real defined need for the prologue.

So I don't think (and these are my 2 cents on the matter take it or leave it), that a general question about prologues is really the issue. The question you have to ask yourself is I think, is do I want to say something CRITICAL to the reader out of the normal chapter flow, BEFORE his/her head is in the story of the book?

If the answer is yes, if you are laying the groundwork for something overall and critical to the book, go for the prologue. But always remember, it has to be your BEST foot forward. Otherwise the reader will never get to Chapter 1.

Best of luck

Teddy

[oswann]

Write the book, then dump the the prologue and the first three chapters and you'll probably find the real beginning of the thing.


Sure it's glib but it works for me everytime. Then again, I hate prologues. It's maybe why I hate all the Star Wars films. One kitch film then hours and hours of prologue. Sorry Ray.


Os.

[jules]

How many REALLY CLASSIC novels have prologues?

Well, of the top 10 of the BBC's "Big Read" list, 2 of them do, and 2 of them I don't have copies of that I can check in.

Interestingly, both of those that do are speculative fiction (Lord of the Rings and The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy).