Chances of Finding a Publisher with a Self-Published Book in Hand?

[CaelinPaul]

Last month I self-published a fantasy novel largely as a response for being turned down by publishing houses that were not looking at unsolicited manuscripts. Lots of people have read it and i have had only positive feedback. What are the chances that a publishing company might now pick up my book now it is already self-published?

[victoriastrauss]

If you can show significant sales--on the order of 5,000 copies sold in the first six months to a year after release--you may be able to interest a commercial publisher. Otherwise, it's unlikely that a publisher will want to pick up a self-published book.

- Victoria

[CaelinPaul]

How even then do you attract a publisher? 5,000 books is a good size number. Is that a typical number of books that must be published before you can excite any interest?

[Cathy C]

Not 5,000 published, CaelinPaul -- 5,000 sold to the buying public. This is pretty much the minimum to show commercial viability of a manuscript to a traditional publisher. Because, unfortunately, as far as small press and large press publishers are concerned, a self-published book is the same as a manuscript. There's no difference between using AuthorHouse, or PA, or lulu, or Kinko's or your home copier.

It can be done. Several self-published authors have done it. But it will require a lot of hard work on marketing on your part.

[victoriastrauss]

5,000 books is a good size number. Is that a typical number of books that must be published before you can excite any interest?That must be sold, not published. Yes, that's typical for a self-published book. It suggests that the book is marketable, which isn't the case for most self-pubbed books. (Most self-published books never sell more than a few hundred copies.)

While a self-pubbed book must prove its marketability in order to interest a commercial publisher, an unpublished manuscript is judged on its potential marketability, which the publisher will then exploit by publishing and selling it. If your goal is commercial publication, you have a much, much better chance with an unpublished manuscript than with a self-published one.

- Victoria

[CaoPaux]

Last month I self-published a fantasy novel largely as a response for being turned down by publishing houses that were not looking at unsolicited manuscripts.Do you mean you sent your ms without querying first? When you query, and they say "sure, send it to us", then *poof*, it's solicited.

[maestrowork]

Yup, unfortunately, it's a number game. Publishers already have a backlog of mss -- fresh, good, worthy. Why would they want yours, especially since you can't give them first rights? Sales number would be a strong selling point -- that your book SELLS like hot cakes even without distribution. In fact, if you sold 5,000 on your own, it would WOW the publisher to at least give your book a read...

And CaoPaux is right -- send a query. Once they make a request to read more, it's solicited.

[pianoman5]

If you can show significant sales--of the order of 5,000 copies sold in the first six months to a year after release--you may be able to interest a commercial publisher.

I should think so, too. Anyone who can sell 5,000 copies of a book in six months -- without the benefit of an established distribution system, and with the stigma of self-publication hanging over it -- deserves to have commercial publishers hammering on their door, because it's more than they can do for most first-time authors.

I'd advise anyone who can achieve this to keep on truckin', because your take per copy is going to be considerably better than the measly $2 or so you'd get from a publisher. Apart from that, any right-minded publisher should not only beg to sign you up for rights to all your output, they should offer you a job as Sales and Marketing Director.

The operative word in all this, of course, is If... the smallest word with the biggest meaning in the lexicon.

[victoriastrauss]

I should think so, too. Anyone who can sell 5,000 copies of a book in six months -- without the benefit of an established distribution system, and with the stigma of self-publication hanging over it -- deserves to have commercial publishers hammering on their door, because it's more than they can do for most first-time authors.Depending on the publication format, a first time author's book can ship, and likely sell, way more than 5,000 copies in the first 6 months.
I'd advise anyone who can achieve this to keep on truckin', because your take per copy is going to be considerably better than the measly $2 or so you'd get from a publisher.But don't forget how much you'll have to spend on travel and other costs associated with that level of successful self-promotion--not to mention the time you'll have to devote to it, which means you aren't writing Book 2.

- Victoria

[maestrowork]

Yeah, you'll be working full-time just to push the books, incurring expenses all the way. Don't get me wrong, it could be worth it. It's just not something everyone could do -- and time could be better used writing your second or third book. Besides, if a big house does buy it, their distribution system could sell many more books, so your 10% royalty would amount to MORE when you compare 50,000 books to 5000.

Don't forget cost, either. When you self-pub, you have carry all the costs, including printing and storing the books. If you publish through a traditional publisher, they pay for everything.

[Jamesaritchie]

I should think so, too. Anyone who can sell 5,000 copies of a book in six months -- without the benefit of an established distribution system, and with the stigma of self-publication hanging over it -- deserves to have commercial publishers hammering on their door, because it's more than they can do for most first-time authors.

I'd advise anyone who can achieve this to keep on truckin', because your take per copy is going to be considerably better than the measly $2 or so you'd get from a publisher. Apart from that, any right-minded publisher should not only beg to sign you up for rights to all your output, they should offer you a job as Sales and Marketing Director.

The operative word in all this, of course, is If... the smallest word with the biggest meaning in the lexicon.

You may actually make less per copy when self-publishing. It costs a lot of money to self-publish, and a lot more money to be your own distributor. Something that should indicate cost is that two buck you get from a commercial publisher is only slightly less than the publisher receives.

And believe me, if you can sell 5,000 copies on your own, running your book through a national distributor and the chain bookstores will sell far more copies than you could ever hope to do without them.

[Jamesaritchie]

It can be done. Several self-published authors have done it. But it will require a lot of hard work on marketing on your part.

It can be done, but it sure isn't the way to bet. Even with all the hard work in the world, I'd be willing to bet that 10,000 self-published books fail for every one that succeeds.

[Cathy C]

It can be done, but it sure isn't the way to bet. Even with all the hard work in the world, I'd be willing to bet that 10,000 self-published books fail for every one that succeeds.

I don't disagree, James. But since CaelinPaul has already taken the step to self-pub, I just wanted to verify that success has indeed happened on occasion. It's certainly the exception, rather than the rule, but the book's not completely a lost cause. Still, the work involved is indeed a burden, so I do wish you luck, CaelinPaul.

[CaelinPaul]

I want to thank everyone for their kind feedback to this thread. I am only now becoming aware of how clueless I am about the whole write and publish area. All I know is that I love to write http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif My next question is..... I one shows that their book will sell, how easy is it to get a publisher to pick up book #2 in the trilogy, and also would they then re-publish book #1?

Hope everyone is having a great December.

By the way someone was curious....My book is a fantasy novel entitled Child of Night.

[ANNIE]

Why not post some of it in the Share your work section so we can have a look?

[egem]

Be careful not to bankrupt yourself with this effort! I know some writers that have self published and then bought 1000s of copies of their books. This amounted (POD) to 20,000 or more dollars. Be careful to meet the demand and not exceed the demand.

Look into indy publishing awards and associations that promote books that are self-published. These are becoming more popular. Try to have it reviewed, althought it may be difficult. Also, if you want a publisher to notice I believe the amount of sales is going to be your number 1 selling factor as others have said. Look for contests that are in the genre, many will not take self-published books but some do.

[CaelinPaul]

Thank you Annie :) How does that work? Do you give a few lines, a paragraph, a page?

[FolkloreFanatic]

I would share anywhere from two to seven pages in the SYW section, under the genre that's appropriate. :)

[MadScientistMatt]

I want to thank everyone for their kind feedback to this thread. I am only now becoming aware of how clueless I am about the whole write and publish area. All I know is that I love to write http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif My next question is..... I one shows that their book will sell, how easy is it to get a publisher to pick up book #2 in the trilogy, and also would they then re-publish book #1?

Hope everyone is having a great December.

By the way someone was curious....My book is a fantasy novel entitled Child of Night.

You may be best off getting a good agent for book number two. This often works somewhat faster at getting a book published if someone the publisher trusts recommends it to them. Many agents take unsolicited querries, and they can get around requirements about "no unsolicited manuscripts" at publishers.

And if book two takes off, it should be pretty easy to get the publisher to buy book one. If book two tanks, you're going to have to keep writing until you get a book published that doesn't.

[CaelinPaul]

When you self-publish you get to keep the rights to your book right? So is it still a good thing to send a manuscript out to "real" publishers for the book that you self-publish or can you send them the actual book in published form, or do you just go for the 5,000 in sales and then try and attract a publisher then?

[MadScientistMatt]

When you self-publish you get to keep the rights to your book right? So is it still a good thing to send a manuscript out to "real" publishers for the book that you self-publish or can you send them the actual book in published form, or do you just go for the 5,000 in sales and then try and attract a publisher then?

That depends - some POD outfits have truly rotten contracts, and you don't keep the rights to your book. And since your book is already published, you can't sell "first rights," which many publishers will prefer. Lastly, unless the sales really take off, publishers probably won't be interested - it's already been out there and had its sales bomb. Even if the deck is stacked against self-published books, they'll see bad sales as damaged goods.

Unless, of course, you get a successful novel published, creating demand for your other works.

[CaelinPaul]

Thanks again for all the feedback. Now I am starting to wish that I wasn't so impatient. If I had waited a little longer I am sure i could have gotten a publisher to pick my book up. Oh well, call it vanity it is still great to hold a "real" book in my hand even if i do have to pull my hair out trying to self-promote it :)

[Julie Worth]

Thanks again for all the feedback. Now I am starting to wish that I wasn't so impatient. If I had waited a little longer I am sure i could have gotten a publisher to pick my book up. Oh well, call it vanity it is still great to hold a "real" book in my hand even if i do have to pull my hair out trying to self-promote it :)

At lulu, you can get a real book in your hands for 10-12 dollars, and it's not published if you don't want it to be, that is, if you don't make it available to the public.