Chick Lit

[DivaNicoletta]

Am I the only one that is upset by the amount of chick lit? I mean a few novels are ok, but today I went into borders and there was a whole wall of it....come of people...don't you think this genre is a bit worn? If people are going to write some new chic little, I would prefer one with an edge. I am so sick of all of this mainstream chic lit that is all the same :Hammer:

[DamaNegra]

ok, I'm really starting to feel ignorant now. What's chick lit?

[emeraldcite]

When something is popular and sells, publishers are not afraid become avid devotees. That's the business side of writing.

The music industry is the same way.

In fact, any commercial produces of "art"* run that way. They have to make a profit in order to fund new artists.

*I mean this in a truely subjective way.

Chick lit disturbs me too. Mostly because it only has one gender in mind as an audience.

[DamaNegra]

What's chick lit?

[Linda Adams]

What's chick lit?

Chick lit are books written for women by women. It filled a void for the twenty-something single women who wanted something other than romance novel. The tone is usually sassy, irrelevent, and humorous. Fashion may be mentioned prominently in the books, with such titles as The Devil Wears Prada or The Givenchy Code. A number of subgenres have formed under it, including Henlit (post-menopausal women), momlit, mystery lit, thriller lit, single city girl lit, wedding lit, etc.

[veinglory]

Why on earth would you be upset that another genre is popular. People like to read it, more power to the writers filling the niche!

[DamaNegra]

Sounds pretty disturbing to me.

If people like it and it sells, it will keep on selling no matter how much authors complain about it. Although I can't see how a genre with such a small audience can survive long.

[veinglory]

Women in their 20-30s are the biggest sales demographic there is. Some guys like westerns, some women like chick lit--some guys like chick lit too--vive la difference.

[DivaNicoletta]

There is one good chick lit novel with a twist, it's the Nanny Diaries. My mom always tells me I should write chick lit, since I am a twenty something leading that sort of life...GRRR :Hammer:

[DamaNegra]

I love the Nanny Diaries!! Lol, I never realized it was that genre, but I really enjoyed reading that book, I guess I loved the sarcasm in it.

As with every genre, I suppose it all depends on the book and/or author.

[aadams73]

Am I the only one that is upset by the amount of chick lit? I mean a few novels are ok, but today I went into borders and there was a whole wall of it....come of people...don't you think this genre is a bit worn? If people are going to write some new chic little, I would prefer one with an edge. I am so sick of all of this mainstream chic lit that is all the same :Hammer:

How is it worse than all the cookie-cutter fantasy? Or all the samey angsty literature?

[DivaNicoletta]

How is it worse than all the cookie-cutter fantasy? Or all the samey angsty literature?


It's not. I just don't read fantasy, but if I did, I would probably be just as annoyed by that.

[emeraldcite]

Why on earth would you be upset that another genre is popular.

For me, it's that soem genres then get squeezed and produce less and some writers get squeezed out altogether.

And it takes up massive shelf space because it's popular, forcing bookstores to put less variety on the shelves.

[DamaNegra]

Just to make my lack of knowledge more obvious, what is cookie-cutter fantasy?

[Irysangel]

How is it worse than all the cookie-cutter fantasy? Or all the samey angsty literature?

Amen.

I don't understand why people get upset that chick-lit is popular. There's a lot of it out there because it sells. The market always cycles back around to something different, so in a few years I'm sure we'll see wall-to-wall mysteries again, or Book Twenty of Robert Jordan's series...

Both of which horrify me more than a wall of chick lit.

Don't bash it if it's not to your taste.

[aadams73]

Just to make my lack of knowledge more obvious, what is cookie-cutter fantasy?

When it's all the same. Elves, mystical tongues and hard-to-pronounce names.

[DamaNegra]

Thanks!

[Sage]

When it's all the same. Elves, mystical tongues and hard-to-pronounce names.

How do you define a "mystical" tongue ;)

[veinglory]

'Mystical' tongues seem to use a lot of apostrophes ;)

[Sage]

' ':tongue' ' ' ':wag: ' ' <---mystical tongues

[Sakamonda]

As someone who writes, reads, and enjoys quality chick lit, I am offended by this thread. I don't bash whole genres of books just because I don't read or enjoy them myself. As an example, I can't stand most legal thrillers and am equally offended by right-wing revisionist history novels (such as those written by Harry Turtledove or Newt Gingrich--who is a novelist, believe it or not.) But a significant portion of the reading public still buys and reads that genre, so bully for those authors that found a market to satisfy.

It should be noted that 53% of new books (and that's ALL books, not just fiction) published in English every year are romance novels/women's fiction. And chick lit is just one of the many sub-genres of romance novels/women's fiction. Since the majority of book buyers are women and the majority of new fiction is aimed at women, I really don't see chick lit going away---nor should it. Besides, the more people read, the more people buy books of ALL genres, and the better ALL writers do! A rising tide lifts all boats.

[DivaNicoletta]

I write chick lit and read chick lit too on occasion ( I am reading Bergdorf Blondes), it's just annoying to see SO many unoriginal versions of it. It's like it's the same story in every book, with a few differences, but many chick lit books are all formula and no spunk or orginality. What I would like to see from this genre is a little more creativity and thinking outside the box.

[katee]

As someone who writes, reads, and enjoys quality chick lit, I am offended by this thread.
Me too -- doubly so, because the novel I'm writing is chick lit, so I'm all for the genre staying popular, or even getting more popular!

The things that frustrate me in a bookstore:

1. Long lines at lunch time
2. Not having the book(s) I want
3. Having the book(s) I want at a ridiculous price
4. Not enough books on sale
5. Too many books on sale (gotta eat, after all)

[aruna]

Like in all genres, there's good and bad chick-lit, and of course that's completely subjective..
I, for instance, found The Nanny Diaries just terrible, one of the worst examples! (sorry!)... and I find Marion Keyes good. I also thought Bridget Jones was good - for the genre. But I would never compare Bridget Jones's Diary with, say, To Kill a Mockingbird.
I don't believe in looking down my nose at any genre per se, but some genres are certainly lighter than others; that is, they are more for a relaxing, distracting time and for readers who aren't looking for any major reading challenge at the time. When I'm looking for that sort of book, I'll choose chick-lit over, say fantasy or horror.

If there's a demand for a certain genre, then publishers wil fill it, and there's no point getting upset about it. What disturbs me about the whole chick-lit phenomena, however, is when it merely reflects the shallowness that seems to be taking over that generation of women. Clothes, make-up, getting a man, dieting - Lord, is that all life is about? That's why I like Marion Keyes - she writes in a lighthearted way about these things, yet manages to get through to a deeper vein. I just hate shallowness, in whatever genre.

[jen.nifer]

Why on earth would you be upset that another genre is popular. People like to read it, more power to the writers filling the niche!

Amen.

And there is some really good chic lit out there too.

[Pencilone]

Why not chick lit?! Hooray for the writers writing it!!!

[fallenangelwriter]

I write chick lit and read chick lit too on occasion ( I am reading Bergdorf Blondes), it's just annoying to see SO many unoriginal versions of it. It's like it's the same story in every book, with a few differences, but many chick lit books are all formula and no spunk or orginality. What I would like to see from this genre is a little more creativity and thinking outside the box.

Yes, but isn't that true of every genre?

mystery, sci-fi, and fantasy all have thier overused plots and conventional characters.

Sturgeon's law is at work here.

[Bufty]

A year or so ago on another Board I frequented there was a first-time writer who had written chick lit. Everyone said it was dead but she got an Agent and a Publisher and I can now see two of her books on the chain bookstore shelves. Good for her, I say. Each to his or her own and if it sells there will always be a market. Her first book was Old School Ties.

[Inspiewriter]

To me, it seems like chick-lit has split off from romance just like romantic-suspense did a few years ago. Many authors are turning from their pure romance to the chick-lit like Julie Garwood, Linda Howard and so many authors did with the rom.-susp. Some readers will follow them, some won't. Some readers get upset when their beloved authors change genres. :Shrug:

[FolkloreFanatic]

Just from reading this thread, it seems like a lot of people read chick lit and don't recognize that they read chick lit. ;)





I'm wary of all-encompassing (and often scornful) terms like 'sword and sorcery,' 'cookie-cutter [insert any genre here],' etc. because they imply that since one person has written a successful series, no one can ever write in that genre again or have similar ideas and still manage to write a good read.



Case in point: Tolkien and JKR, for all that I admire them, have not, are not, and will never be the 'be all, end all' examples of speculative fiction. They may be the most successful, but imho, they certainly aren't the best. They weren't even the first. Spenser and Malory had them beat by a good four hundred years or so (more in Malory's case), and THEY were copying off of earlier poets.



What I'm saying is don't knock the Buzz Aldrins of the world, because Neil Armstrong was first by pure chance, and neither outranks the other, no matter who walked on the damned moon first.



[If I absolutely HAD to make a case for an author to be the single best representative of her genre, it would be Agatha Christie in Mystery, hands down. Again, my personal taste--and this is coming from a girl who grew up in a Sherlock Holmes-obsessed house that elevates Arthur Conan Doyle to iconic status and owns every single video collection of his book-inspired films.]

[scarletpeaches]

There are good and bad books in every genre, and I could name names, but you know who I mean. ;)

Marian Keyes has a knack for black humour. Jenny Colgan is funny. There are many more who make me want to gouge my own eyes out so I don't have to read them. But there is a lot to learn from bad writers, too.

[zeprosnepsid]

To defend 'the wall of chick lit in the bookstore' problem, I think it's just this -- that bookstores don't always distinguish between what is good and innovative and what is bad and just riding the wave. It can be deceptive -- sometimes they just put up everything that has recently come in new. I also think it's not very refreshing when a genre you enjoy becomes bloated because of it's success. It's usually fresher when it's not so popular because the books being published are chosen with more care. So with chick lit's popularity, a fan might find themselves wading through more 'cookie-cutter' books that they're not interested in just to find a diamond in the rough...

[goatpiper]

Why get so annoyed at the existence of something that you can choose to avoid? I understand there's lots of schlock out there, in every genre, but getting all amped up over its mere existence isn't going to change anything, or make your WIP go any better. It's like a car accident on the freeway - if you don't want to see it, look the other way.

[Novilia]

I personally do not read much chick lit,so I can't really comment on it, other than that I've never really, ever, enjoyed things like fasion or shopping or the handsome hunk with huge muscles is going to save me and what not. So, I'm curious, what sort of titles of chick lit are some what suspenseful, filled with deeper meaning and self-sacrafice kind of thing. I'd be interested in reading a good chick lit title. If you haven't read all genres then in my opinion you should. Please don't take anything offensively, I'm only asking. After all, all I know about chick lit is titles like "Shopping Queen" and covers where some very buff guy is kissing this girl while they're riding on a horse into the sunset, and the guy is ina kilt while the girls left sleeve is sagging to the point where you can see her breast. And I see this cover and I say, "hmmm, no." But I don't like cliche any novels. The worst is fantasy novels with this annoying patteren of war, revolt, and then there is the evre so popuar "Oh, my gosh! You mean I'm the chosen one and must save the world all by myself against the evil Lord Blackly" or something like that. Chosen people are okay so long as there is compleity. Complex is good! And I hate action books with pure action. No emotion, just a girl and a guy and some enemy that shows up in every scene with bullets flying everywhere. It's always hard to find something really unique. Okay, I'll shut up now, and I hope I didn't offend anyone. If I did, feel free to critize my passion for aliens or fantasy or whatever.

[scarletpeaches]

Novilia, I think what you describe as chick-lit is actually genre romance; bodice-rippers in other words. Chick-lit would be closer to Jane Green or Sophie Kinsella.

Just as bad IMO, though.

[NeuroFizz]

A quick look at the number of agents who have stated preferences that include "chick lit" should tell us all something about the genre. There are quite a few. Anything that gets readers into the bookstore is good for us all regardless of genre.

[Celia Cyanide]

What disturbs me about the whole chick-lit phenomena, however, is when it merely reflects the shallowness that seems to be taking over that generation of women. Clothes, make-up, getting a man, dieting - Lord, is that all life is about?

That's really my only problem with it, too. A lot of those books I see on the shelf are about shopping, dieting, and the need to get a boyfriend. Certainly, good writers can write good stories about anything. And there is no reason why people should not write these kinds of stories, when they obviously have an audience. I know that there are a lot of great books and great writers in this genre. But that subject matter doesn't pertain to my life or my interests, at all. It kind of bothers me that the name "chick-lit" implies that this subject matter is what chicks are interested in. I'm not.

[scarletpeaches]

That's precisely why I couldn't stand the Bridget Jones books. There were plenty of women I knew saying how great it was that at last there were books that reflected what women are really like and I thought..."Not this woman. I don't binge drink, I don't smoke, I've never been on a diet in my life and having a man is not the be-all and end-all of my existence." Some chick-lit characters seem so damn stupid, too. Like they couldn't tell a b@st@rd from a gentleman if he came up and kicked them in the arse.

Of course, there are many good chick-lit novels, but there seems so much dreck out these days...I guess it makes finding the gems so much more rewarding.

[reph]

I'm curious, what sort of titles of chick lit are some what suspenseful, filled with deeper meaning and self-sacrafice kind of thing. I'd be interested in reading a good chick lit title.
I've been looking at Harlequin's site because I got curious about romance novels. They have several lines of books – more than several, actually – with different emphases. Some of their newer lines, especially, venture away from Kilt Guy and Breast Girl on Horseback. You can read excerpts at the site.

http://www.eharlequin.com

[Irysangel]

You're describing historical romance, not chick lit.

If you want a good chick lit, I recommend Sophie Kinsella's Can You Keep A Secret or Jennifer Weiner's Good In Bed.


Harlequin's line of chick lit is called Red Dress Ink, FYI.


Oh, and I write chick lit too. It's not dead. I've heard the same response for fantasy over the past couple years, and you just have to roll your eyes at the naysayers and keep writing what you want to write.

[Irysangel]

Of course, there are many good chick-lit novels, but there seems so much dreck out these days...I guess it makes finding the gems so much more rewarding.

The dreck is in every genre, I'm afraid. I've stopped reading fantasy for that very reason -- every book I pick up is (in my opinion) pure, unadulterated crap rehashing the same old storyline. Ooh, there's a dragon. Oooh look, a prophecy. Oh boy, a farmboy who would be king.

The same could be said for horror or mystery -- my husband reads both and has complained recently that it's 'all the same' and 'all crap'.

I write both chick-lit and fantasy (now there's a crossover waiting to happen) and I think as writers, we become jaded to the typical novel, and unless it's really outstanding (no matter WHAT the genre) we're going to be a bit more critical of it. My husband laughs because I toss aside 75% of everything I read as trash. I then give the books to my sister, who is NOT a writer, and she loves every single flamin' one of them. Go figure.

It's all a matter of taste. :)

[katee]

I write both chick-lit and fantasy (now there's a crossover waiting to happen)
I think it already has, though I've only read reviews of fanstasy chick lit (surely there's a pithier name for it). Hmmm, something to ask for, for Christmas perhaps?

And to echo those above: ditto for the shallowness. I love chick lit with some substance to it. My fave is Marian Keyes' Rachel's Holiday - I love the growth the main character goes through.

[aruna]

I really enjoyed Marions Keyes' "Angels"; and I've heard that "Rachel's Holiday", but her, is excellent. She likes to address deeper issues and thtrow them into the mix, so I can stomach her quite well. In "the Other Side of the Story" she has a book actually set in the world of writers'; it's all about two writers, an agent, publishing etc, and quite good, though totally unrealistic. I mean come on: somebody sends an agent the email correspondence of a friend, and the agent snaps it up and gets the email writer to make a novel out of it! I mean, come ON.

Scarlet, I read Bridget Jones' Diary very, very early, before it was a hit, and I laughed myself silly over it! But after it became the prototype of chick-lit I went off it in a big way, too.

For anyone intersted, chick-lit websites: www.chicklit.com (http://www.chicklit.com), http://www.chicklit.co.uk

Oh, and another deviation of the genre is Indian chick-lit.
There's one writer who produces one book after the other called "Saris and Sins", "Pizza and Poppadums" etc. They are all about Indian girls in conservative families (arranged marriage etc) having hilarious romps with Western men.

One such book is titled "For Matrimonial Purposes". When I discovered this book I nearly had a fit: the title is clearly a rip-off of my own title:mad: ; I know it is because we have the same editor! And she (the editor) paid £125000.00 advance for this title. I read all the bad reviews of it and smirked, and of course read it myself. But actually, it's quite good, quite funny and really well-written so I forgave her. However, I am sure it did not earn out the advance as it never became a bestseller, and I'm wondering what happened to the author after her next two books also bombed? (Do you hear any Schadenfreude speaking there????)

[SusanR]

When I was, oh, twelve and thirteen years old, I read a Scholastic Books series titled THIRTEEN, FOURTEEN, FIFTEEN, SWEET SIXTEEN, SEVENTEEN. The plots were all the same: a very nice, but not flamboyant young woman falls in like/love with a handsome, responsible, but somehow popular young man. However, a flashy, entirely with-it, beautiful sophisticate walks around as if she owns the young hunk. After a requisite amount of misunderstandings and sufferings, the (rather nasty) sophisticate gets her measured comeuppence, and the really nice girl gets her really nice guy.

I read those seeking answers to the puzzle of my yearnings.

I think the chick-lit formula books serve a similar function and have a really simlilar structure. They are the girly Scholastic books I remember from the sixties in disguise, except the MCs shop more.

There are three psychological tasks of young adulthood: establish independent boundaries around one's identity as distinct from that assigned by one's family of origin; find meaningful work; find a life partner/construct a meaningful social network.

These chick-lit formulas dance with those issues with a certain tone. I gotta admit though....I just don't get the shopping thing.

SusanR

[arrowqueen]

'I write both chick-lit and fantasy (now there's a crossover waiting to happen)'

Allandra regarded her dragon-skin Manolo Blahnicks in despair. Worn once and out-of-fashion already.

Damn that Elven shoe-curse!

[SpookyWriter]

I write chicklit thrillers:

Sun tanned babe meets serial killer for a night of romance and adventure. Sultry Susie suggests that they fly to Vegas and elope. What Susie doesn't know is that Sam wants to fry her over a BBQ while watching Desperate Housewives.

Both Susie and Sam quickly learn that romancing the stone cold killer isn't always about who's got the biggest knife.

Jon

[SusanR]

There are a couple of writers I've read for years now who wrote what I would have called "chick-lit" had thought to name the genre. Technically, I think you'd call these novels "mainstream-literary" but since they featured woman, were written by women, and I, a woman, really, really liked them, I thought of them as "women's novels."

Examples:

Gail Godwin: Father Melancholy's Daughter, The Odd Woman, etc.
Nancy Thayer: Three Women at the Water's Edge, Stepping, etc.
Judith Rossner: Looking for Mr. Goodbar, August, To the Precipice, etc.
Jennifer Levin: Water Dancer, Snow

There are lots of others, but these authors and works come to mind first. None of these is primarily concerned with dieting or shopping or the superficialities of finding a man.

SusanR