Is doing this acceptable or not? POV question

[Ivonia]

For my story, with the exception of the prologue, and one key chapter, I plan on writing the story largely from the protagonist's point of view. The prologue has to be different because it introduces the primary antagonists (and takes place long before the hero is even born, but what happens here affects the rest the story, as well as the hero later on), and the "key" chapter doesn't have the protagonist anywhere near the setting (it's his sister, who's far away from him at the time), but it does have several key characters, and the events that happen here set off what happens for the rest of the story (it's the opening shots of the war that occurs in my book).

Aside from those two exceptions, there are key scenes where I want to "head hop", that is, switch to many different POV's during those scenes (what I mean in this case is, while the hero is in the general area, he may not necessarily be around the scene when another character is being shown at the time).

I suppose it's largely third person limited, with some omniscient POV from time to time (I felt that by showing some other POV's, it would add more drama to the overall scene, and would make some scenes stand out more, because the protagonist isn't the only character present. He does do important, heroic things during those times , but I'd like to also show what his friends, and some of his enemies are thinking and doing as well).

Would this be okay? Or am I just better off sticking strictly to the hero's POV/making it an omniscient POV story altogether? This would mainly involve battles (again, large war in my story), and I would like to show what other key characters are thinking/planning/saying, even if the hero isn't right there at the time (for instance, his friend exploring a destroyed ship will encounter different conflicts than the commanding admiral in her flagship talking to the enemy admiral before the battle heats up).

What makes this different from the prologue and the "key" chapter is that any major head-hopping done here is only done on characters who are in the same general area that the hero is in. So while the hero may hear about a battle that took place far away, we won't get to see what occurred there, just the results that he hears on the news or from a friend. But any battles that the hero himself is personally involved in, I want to show what others are thinking and doing at the time. The reason I don't want to show that "distant battle" is that, while its outcome is vital to the story, readers may not care about it very much since none of the hero's friends or anyone else they may care about is there at the time.

The pro's of making it omniscient is that I can head hop anywhere, and show any event that's occurring at the time, so readers will be able to find out for themselves how events play out. Plus there are some really boring scenes I could simply skip over (such as the hero's training), so instead of showing that, I could show important events that are taking place while the hero is still in training.

However, the major con is that readers may not be able to connect to the hero of the story (many of his friends also perform vital roles, but I want them to be largely secondary to the hero), since they won't get to spend much time with him. Plus just talking about battles and other characters constantly will make it hard to develop the hero (it's hard to think back to stuff when you're actively talking about fighting all the time, and will also make a boring read if you don't understand the hero's motives and whether he's doing the right thing or not. Sure, I could have "downtime" scenes, where he's thinking about things that happened recently, but it'll probably end up looking like an info dump).

I'm not sure if this has been done before (probably has), but I was wondering if doing this would automatically make me look like an amateur, a silly loon who has no idea how to write, or perhaps something unique that adds more to the overall scene.

If it has been done before, point out authors/books who have used it, and if it was done well or poorly in your opinion. Thanks in advance!

[mdin]

I don't have a personal problem with head hopping as long as it's clear whose head we're in. I get a little iffy on the idea of a book being 95% in one head and then suddenly we're in someone else's, especially if we're halfway through the book. I think it would be difficult to pull off.

But rule one is that there are no rules. If it's what works best, then go for it. The worst thing that can happen is you'll have to rewrite that part if it doesn't work. I end up rewriting from a different POV all the time.

I'm currently reading Olympos by Dan Simmons (Book 2 of the Illium series), and Mr. Simmons changes tense when he jumps heads. It's very bizzare, but he's such a good writer, he pulls it off.

[jules]

As long as what you do is clear to the reader, it will be fine. That's the critical thing.

But: I'm not sure how you would make it clear. When you're with one character for such a long time, it will be difficult for the reader to make the transition to a new one. This could be a problem for you.

I faced a similar problem with a novel I wrote a draft of last year. In the end, I added a new subplot that allowed me to spend more time with the other POV character, so I had a novel in 3 distinct sections, with POV changing between them: MC, other character, back to MC. With the transition being for tens of thousands of words, rather than just a couple of thousand, it doesn't seem too jarring.

[scribbler1382]

A couple of books I read last year did this. In the one instance, the entire book was in first person in the protag's POV, except for a few chapters which were in third person in the killer's POV. To solidly indicate the POV change, the killer's chapters were in present tense. The other book, again in first person in the protag's POV, had passages in another character's POV in third person. The publisher actually chose to put these passages in a different font. This is probably a good indicator that they were concerned the shift would confuse people, especially since the passages were within other chapters that were in the protag's POV for the most part.

[Maryn]

A different POV in a prologue (and epilogue, if you've got one planned) is fine with most readers. But dropping into another POV and/or another character's head briefly isn't done very often, largely because it's difficult to pull off.

It sounds to me as if your desire to head-hop or pull back to omniscient POV is fueled by the need to provide information to the reader that your protagonist doesn't or can't know. Things to consider: does the reader need to know this information, I mean really need to? If so, right then? Would it work to supply the information by placing the reader in the protagonist's POV when he learns it?

Although there are authors who make head-hopping work, I suspect that bucking the convention may not be the best decision but merely a solution to a problem you're facing. I suggest you skim or read other books of a large scope (like war) to see how the author tells the reader what he needs to know while remaining in a single POV.

If you decide that POV switches are the only way to go, of course, do it. Make it extremely clear, with chapters or section breaks, when you leave one POV for another, and be sure to provide a different voice for each POV. For what it's worth (perhaps nothing), I find omniscient POV so distancing that I dislike it. I vastly prefer getting to know a character while I learn what he knows.

Maryn, who's done POV switches a few times (on purpose)

[Jamesaritchie]

Switching POV is a fine thing, but doing so inside scenes, head-hopping, makes me toss a book quickly. I don't think there's ever a need to head-hop. It's just lazy writing, taking the easy way out.

[storygirl]

I actually agree with James, but each book is different and sometimes head-hopping can add to the story...but not often. It is one of my pet peeves when I pick up a book and it hops POV inside scenes, especially if it just strictly for info and not to add depth to the story by letting me get to know this character on an intimate level. Can't you just change scenes to get a different, NECESSARY POV? I mean, you say the main character is around but not where something vital is going to be shown or at least known, every once in a while can't you just clearly end his scene and start another scene with a different character if the reader NEEDS the info and can't get it from the MC? And you could try to make it so you use another lead character quite often, so the reader doesn't get bounced between too many people.

All in all, it is hard to say what is the right thing to do without seeing it all in context, so ultimately you have to do what you feel is best for your work. You know it better than we do. I know decisions like this are tough and sometimes call for rewrites, so I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide!!!

[fallenangelwriter]

I can only think of one book i have read which head hopped successfully, which is the "the black gryphon" by mercedes lackey. she frequently switched POV midscene to help readers see both siders of an argument. it also added verisimilitude when other characters referred to things they'd seen form the outside which were earlier shown form a different POV.


however, ot do it, she essentially treated each head-hopping as a new scene. she'd have a scene going, then stop, put in a paragraph break, and extra line break, and an asterisk, then begin her new scene by estabilshing the new narrator and reiterating the setting and circumstances. it's just that they happened to overlap with the previous scene.

[pianoman5]

The pro's of making it omniscient is that I can head hop anywhere...

Perhaps you don't mean that, exactly, because it's not the best way of looking at it. Well-written omniscient POV pieces, while they include the inner thoughts and feelings of several characters, typically move smoothly between them. And they're normally separated by chapter/scene/line breaks, as in the example FAW quotes above. Head hopping in the 'jumpy' sense is usually a bad idea.


Plus there are some really boring scenes I could simply skip over (such as the hero's training), so instead of showing that, I could show important events that are taking place while the hero is still in training.

Good idea. If you think a scene is dull, imagine how a reader might react. Really boring scenes have a limited place in modern fiction, appreciated only by some of those who prefer to study literature rather than read it.

[Button]

If the information can't be given any other way, then try it out! See what happens. ;)

[FolkloreFanatic]

I'm facing a similar situation, but not once did I consider omniscient POV. If I were you, I would do the prologue in 3rd person(either limited or fly-on-the-wall), and the rest of the story in 3rd limited from the protagonist's POV.

[Jamesaritchie]

I can only think of one book i have read which head hopped successfully, which is the "the black gryphon" by mercedes lackey. she frequently switched POV midscene to help readers see both siders of an argument. it also added verisimilitude when other characters referred to things they'd seen form the outside which were earlier shown form a different POV.


however, ot do it, she essentially treated each head-hopping as a new scene. she'd have a scene going, then stop, put in a paragraph break, and extra line break, and an asterisk, then begin her new scene by estabilshing the new narrator and reiterating the setting and circumstances. it's just that they happened to overlap with the previous scene.



When each one is a new scene, it isn't head-hopping. Mercedes Lackey is doing it the way it's supposed to be done to avoid head-hopping.

[Jamesaritchie]

The pro's of making it omniscient is that I can head hop anywhere, and show any event that's occurring at the time, so readers will be able to find out for themselves how events play out. !

Well, not really. Head-hopping reads just as poorly in omnisceint as it does in limited. The advanatge of omniscient is that the narrator knows what's going on in everyone's head, not that head-hopping reads any better, or works any better. Even with omniscient, head-hopping needs to kept under tight control.

[Mistook]

For my story, with the exception of the prologue, and one key chapter, I plan on writing the story largely from the protagonist's point of view. The prologue has to be different because it introduces the primary antagonists (and takes place long before the hero is even born, but what happens here affects the rest the story, as well as the hero later on), and the "key" chapter doesn't have the protagonist anywhere near the setting (it's his sister, who's far away from him at the time), but it does have several key characters, and the events that happen here set off what happens for the rest of the story (it's the opening shots of the war that occurs in my book).

Aside from those two exceptions, there are key scenes where I want to "head hop", that is, switch to many different POV's during those scenes (what I mean in this case is, while the hero is in the general area, he may not necessarily be around the scene when another character is being shown at the time).

I suppose it's largely third person limited, with some omniscient POV from time to time (I felt that by showing some other POV's, it would add more drama to the overall scene, and would make some scenes stand out more, because the protagonist isn't the only character present. He does do important, heroic things during those times , but I'd like to also show what his friends, and some of his enemies are thinking and doing as well).

Would this be okay? Or am I just better off sticking strictly to the hero's POV/making it an omniscient POV story altogether? This would mainly involve battles (again, large war in my story), and I would like to show what other key characters are thinking/planning/saying, even if the hero isn't right there at the time (for instance, his friend exploring a destroyed ship will encounter different conflicts than the commanding admiral in her flagship talking to the enemy admiral before the battle heats up).

What makes this different from the prologue and the "key" chapter is that any major head-hopping done here is only done on characters who are in the same general area that the hero is in. So while the hero may hear about a battle that took place far away, we won't get to see what occurred there, just the results that he hears on the news or from a friend. But any battles that the hero himself is personally involved in, I want to show what others are thinking and doing at the time. The reason I don't want to show that "distant battle" is that, while its outcome is vital to the story, readers may not care about it very much since none of the hero's friends or anyone else they may care about is there at the time.

The pro's of making it omniscient is that I can head hop anywhere, and show any event that's occurring at the time, so readers will be able to find out for themselves how events play out. Plus there are some really boring scenes I could simply skip over (such as the hero's training), so instead of showing that, I could show important events that are taking place while the hero is still in training.

However, the major con is that readers may not be able to connect to the hero of the story (many of his friends also perform vital roles, but I want them to be largely secondary to the hero), since they won't get to spend much time with him. Plus just talking about battles and other characters constantly will make it hard to develop the hero (it's hard to think back to stuff when you're actively talking about fighting all the time, and will also make a boring read if you don't understand the hero's motives and whether he's doing the right thing or not. Sure, I could have "downtime" scenes, where he's thinking about things that happened recently, but it'll probably end up looking like an info dump).

I'm not sure if this has been done before (probably has), but I was wondering if doing this would automatically make me look like an amateur, a silly loon who has no idea how to write, or perhaps something unique that adds more to the overall scene.

If it has been done before, point out authors/books who have used it, and if it was done well or poorly in your opinion. Thanks in advance!


Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but it sounds like you're not really talking about true head-hopping. It sounds more like you have one chapter where you switch POV to other characters scene by scene, but that this would seem weird because every other chapter of the story is focused on only the MC POV.

I agree, it would probably seem odd for this to happen only once in the story. But on the other hand, many great epics will switch between the POVs of three or four strong characters as they follow their separate adventure-lines.

Maybe think about having one or two other characters who are close friends of the MC, who you can "check back" with periodically throughout the story. It could solve a lot of problems, including that distant battle that would otherwise be boring.

If you want to cover battle scenes close to the MC, but where he can't actually be present, keep in mind that one well placed character POV can "show" the actions of three or four others around him. You don't necessarily need to switch between every character involved in the drama of that chapter. Just pick the one who has the best view of things and show it from that vantage point. If there's still some action that isn't covered, it shouldn't be to hard to fill it in with second hand accounts or by other indirect means.

[The Gorn]

I am a beginning writer myself and have had problems like this. The thing to remember is not to write for other people. Write for yourself. Don't scrap something because you think other people won't like it. If you like it, then that's good enough. Remember, a writers' worst critic is himself/herself. Just as a suggestion, I wouldn't put so much focus on the hero. If you are looking for other works where the author jumps around or shows characters that have no relation to the hero, then I would suggest reading the works of Vince Flynn. He writes political thrillers and as a special example I would suggest his second book Transfer of Power. It is about a group of terrorists who take over the whitehouse and hold the president hostage. The hero is a counter terrorism specialist named Mitch Rapp who is secretly inserted into the whitehouse to deal with the situation. Meanwhile, the vice president, now getting a taste of power, is not entirely willing to give it up. even if it means the presidents' death.

Now there's three pov's from which the story is told and that isn't all. There is also the Joint Chief of the army, an entire S. E. A. L. team, the commander of Delta Force, as well as agents from the FBI, CIA, the Secrete Service, the president and some of his staff, the terrorist leader and some of his goons, and one of the hostages. Just on a rough estimate I would say that the story is told from about twenty+ different pov's. And the hero is only in it for about half of the story.