Only YOU can SAVE my BRAIN!

[PeeDee]

(I am not entirely sure if this belongs in the "Writing Novels" forum, but I was at a bit of a loss for where to put it. If anyone with Great Authority thinks of a better place for it, give it a bump, if you please.)

I need the advice of all you wonderful people, because you're all wonderful people with opinions, and I'm at a loss at the moment.

I also have no idea how to word all of this, so pardon me if I blither.

Sometimes, ideas for stories take forms you weren't necessarily expecting them to take, and I think part of being a smart writer is respecting the idea enough to be willing to try otu the style it demands, even if you don't normally. The poet with the idea for the comic book, for example, should start doing a comic.

I have a thoroughly solid idea that I thought was a novel (and could possibly still evolve into one) but seems to like itself best as somethign else entirely.

This is what I want to do.

Have you read fanfiction series? Perhaps some of the old Star Trek fanfiction series which followed a new starship, the crew of said starship, and wandered around the galaxy? There were some really bad ones, but there were some solid ones as well. (I happily cut my writing teeth on my own for two years, back at the dawn of time). They work sort of like TV shows, with "episodes" in a "season" forming a "series"

(I'm sorry, I really am blithering; keep going, I'll buy you a beer later)

Or maybe Shadowmarch, by Tad Wililams? That might be more accurate. Or "The Plant," Stephen King's sort-of-web-novel. Things like that are good descriptions.

I want to tell this story in parts, as a serial, on the web. I've done it before, sort of, and this idea would be happiest like that.

The writing of it isn't really a problem. I can bring stories in at good length, especially series work. I did it for quite awhile. I can even make sure the whole series has a proper end.

What I'm mostly insecure about is, is this a good idea? To take an original idea, original property, and put it online? I mean, it would be cool if I made money off it, and I have ideas how to do that, but to be reasonable, I doubt it really would.

Legally, is this wise? From a writer-point of view, even if the story demands it, is this an intelligent thing to do?

Basically, I'm at a loss. I mean, I may have done this before, as I said, sort of, but somehow, this all feels like brand new territory to me.

I'm not even sure if I'm asking useful or cognizant questions here. It's a bit of a jumble. While trying to sort it out and doing some work to build the web-site, I'm mostly just writing the episodes and trying to sort it out in my head.

Opinions, from anyone who has a clue what I'm going on about? Or anyone? Period? Please?

______________________________________________
THIS IS A COUPON FOR ONE (11) FREE BEER

PRINT, CUT, AND TAKE TO LOCAL BAR. PRESENT TO
BARTENDER FOR RECEIPT OF ONE (111) FREE BEER
______________________________________________

[Avalon]

A question for you (or two). If the writing isn't a problem and you don't expect to make any money, what exactly are you asking? Do you mean you want to write it and put it on the web, but perhaps try to sell it later?

[PeeDee]

Arg. I knew I was going to get "Huh?" as a reponse.

Right.

I'm going to write this series of episodes, one every two weeks, until the story is done. I'm going to put them on a web-site, I'm going to promote it. Whether or not I try to sell them later is something I can worry about, well, later.

I guess I'm just asking, is this wise? Is it a smart thing to consider doing, putting a lengthy story online? Or would I be wiser trying to write it around into a novel/series of novels?

I guess I'm asking if this is going to be a really dumb thing I'm going to do. Well, at least if it sounds like it potentially will be... :)

(sorry for my incoherency; like I said, I've been a very confused, jumbled mess about this for a week or two now. It is not coming out sanely.)

[Birol]

You mean something like the Spriggan Experiment (http://www.ethshar.com/thesprigganexperiment0.html)?

[PeeDee]

*deflates utterly and completely*

Yes. Just like that. That's even, more or less, the vague idea I had for making money off the thing.

Bollocks.

[Birol]

Why deflated, PeeDee? It worked for the guy. Of course, he had a fan base before he started out. I'm not certain if the person I heard about it from was a fan before the experiment or not. I had to get the link from him, so I'll see if I can find out.


ETA: Yes. He was a fan and a follower of the series before the author serialized it online.

[PeeDee]

I suppose the only real difference (arrggg) is that mine are about twenty pages long, or so, for each episode, whereas his were about 7-10 (abritary numbers, none of which mean much anyway, but)...and they aren't really chapters, they're short stories, if there is actually much of a difference in this regard.

Well, instead of looking at it as a "Cripes, it's already been done," I'll look at it as "Oh, a challenge, and a chance to do more and different."

What the hoo-hah, I'll be an optimist.

What a blazingly cool payment idea. And he actually got $100 for each chapter. He made $2,800 off the thing. I certainly don't know if I'd manage that (wouldn't even have the spine to try an amount that high, honestly) but what a cool idea.

[James D. Macdonald]

I can't see any reason not to do it.

It may make commercial publication of that work more difficult somewhere down the road (or maybe not), but if commercial publication of this work isn't your plan -- why not?

As to finding readers ... you won't be the first to publish a work on the web as a serial. How many of those others have you heard of?

[PeeDee]

This is the first time I'd heard of The Spriggan Experiment, certainly.

I was aware of Tad Williams' Shadowmarch without having any real knowledge of Tad Williams at the time. Actually, I discovered Tad Williams through Shadowmarch (and my world has been better and brighter since then)

Stephen King's Riding the Bullet went well, but is not necessarily similar. His The Plant series...well, I thought little of it, and while I understand while he stopped, I wasn't altogether impressed with him giving up on it.

Web-comics (some, like Sluggy Freelance, which has startling success) have managed to make money out of putting their wares online. It's a different sort of beast than a series of stories, but I think they're similar enough beasts for this purpose.

...

There's another question lost in the murk of my first post. What would publishing something like this on the internet do to my chances of publishing it through a real publisher? Presuming that it is sane and well-written and all my i's have dots (just like that one does), would an editor say, "Yes, but everyone's already read it, you put it online, for Pete's sake!" and then turn away? Obviously, good writing trumps all, but no reason to build taller hurtles for myself later.

...

I finished the first episode earlier this afternoon, and I'm currently rifling around the net, looking for a mostly-painless free web-server that won't attack people with too many pop-ups (mostly just for now; eventually, I think it'll need its own home-server and a properly built web-site. Apparently, all my hard-won HTML skills are prehistoric.)

[Paint]

Hi! I popped in because the title of the thread caught my eye...

I saw something like this on www.boywhoheardmusic.blogspot.com (http://www.boywhoheardmusic.blogspot.com) by Pete Townsend. I keep refering this because I think it is really cool. He has made the chapters available on PDF. I go back to it because I want to see what happens next!
Paint

[PeeDee]

Pete Townsend's not someone I would expect to be doing a serial online. Cool. I don't know if I quite like the present-tense-writing style, but I suppose if it makes him happy.

(Now if we can get Keith Richards do one. Yowza.)

[Birol]

My question for you, Pete, is how are you going to promote this? All of the names mentioned so far had an established fan base which helped make it work.

[emeraldcite]

I have to admit that the Spriggan Experiment is really cool. I'm glad to see it worked out.

I think that if you don't plan to publish traditionally right away, this idea seems like an interesting method of getting your writing out there. It may not be as successful, since he already had a fan base, but it seems like a viable alternative.

[PeeDee]

My question for you, Pete, is how are you going to promote this? All of the names mentioned so far had an established fan base which helped make it work.

Word of mouth? Begging wonderful people named Birol, and others, to tell their friends about it? Get banners out there, where I can? It's been some time since I've done this, and I'm starting to realize how very little I know about how to make it work. I mean, it can work, with thought, with time, with effort.

I should be careful to mention that I'm not doing this to publicize myself or get my writing out there. I mean, they're nice side effects, but mostly I want to tell a good story, I want to tell it in a comfortable format in which I can try lots of things, and I want people to enjoy reading it. Preferably large masses of people... :)

So, I don't really know. I'm figuring a lot this out as I go. A lot, heck, probably 99% of it as I go...!

[Maryn]

I don't have a fan base, of course, but I've done this, donating a serialized novella to a friend trying to get his website off the ground. It got several hundred reads.

One thing I would recommend is that you be the one with the website, so that when and if a publishing offer comes, or a lawsuit, whatever, you can control the content on the web, even removing it if that's in your best interest.

The website that had my novella was abandoned by its founder, and its message section started filling up with spam and porn and spam for porn. I wanted my work off of the site, and it took a lot of effort to make that happen. In the end, no harm done (since I didn't consider the work marketable), but in hindsight I wished I'd maintained control.

Maryn, hoping you're smarter

[PeeDee]

Definitely doing my own site. It may not be gorgeous, mind you (HTML apparently is not "new technology" anymore) but it'll be functional.

http://free.hostdepartment.com/p/peedee/

I dusted off my Adobe Photoshop skills, stretched my web muscles, and have built a little bit so far. So I shall call it "progress"

[PeeDee]

A further thought/question, since thou art so wise (yeah, you.)

Should I do one episode of about 10-15-ish pages a week? Or should I do one episode of about 20-30-ish pages every other week? Whotcher think?

...or, for that matter, should I try a system similar to what the Spriggan Experiment did, where when donations reach something like $25 or so (HE can get $100 per episode, I doubt I could) then I post the next story. If I did that, I'd post the first five episodes free, I think, so people know they haven't just shelled out $25 for some guy who wRiT3s W33RD.

*goes back to work*

[victoriastrauss]

I was aware of Tad Williams' Shadowmarch without having any real knowledge of Tad Williams at the time. Actually, I discovered Tad Williams through Shadowmarch (and my world has been better and brighter since then)The reason that Shadowmarch became a book is that the web-based version wasn't successful. It was originally conceived as an electronic project; it wasn't supposed to go to print, or not until the e-serial was complete.

That's also why King discontinued The Plant. Readership was high to begin with, but it fell off with subsequent episodes. And people weren't paying, or were paying once and then downloading the rest of the episodes for free.

Lawrence Watt-Evans is (somewhat to his own surprise) having success with his web serial--but as others have pointed out, he's an established author with a fan base for the world the serial is set in.

I think it's possible that an unknown or little-known writer might be able to build an audience for a web serial--but I really doubt they'd be able to get people to pay for it. If you're going to do this, I don't think that payment should be part of the plan.

If the idea is a solid one, IMO there's a far, far better chance of print publication if it's simply written as a novel. That is, if print publication is the ultimate goal.

- Victoria

[PeeDee]

It's like Nirvana. It's always the ultimate goal.

So you think I should write it in Chapters and make it one long work, as opposed to short stories? Or at least, that it would make it easier to publish it sometime later if I did that?

It's logical enough. The reason I chose short story "episodes" as opposed to "chapters" is that while I can still have the long story arc, the overall tale going on...it means I can also wander off. I like that. I can have three stories following the main character, and then suddenly, episode four is its own self-contained short story, somewhere else in the world, detailing how things are affecting other people. I like having the freedom, within a story, to Say Things. Not necessarily preach, per se, just be able to move around and tell other stories within the context of the series. You know?

I was hesitant on the payment bit, and I think you clinched it. So, no payment stuff. I'll just do a free web-site (which can be done in HTML, which I can handle) and I'll do a free series of stories.

I remember when Tad called it quits with Shadowmarch online and went to work bringing it out as a novel. I thought it was really too bad, though I do understand it. I understood, too, how Stephen King could quit when the readership stopped being there, though I didn't necessarily like how he just abruptly gave it up and went away. I thought he should have at least finished the story.

"The Spriggan Experiment" worked, but even just referring to that as a fluke would be a vast understatement, I suspect.

....well, I always thought that ultimately, having a good story that people want to hear would be enough for anything. I guess I'm about to find out if that can even remotely hold water... :)