NEPAT Overflow

[rlfulgham]

Way back on your long post about a certain "publisher" which has a bad reputation for taking advantage of naive writers, Dave Kuminsky and many others laughed at a post I had written to the publisher. Well, I want you all to know it was a sarcastic, delibrate dig and not a serious ass-kissing. Dave knows I love hoaxes, and in the name of hoaxes I sacrified a perfectly good novella to get into this publisher's huge in-crowd of losers and wannabes. I intend to have great fun there, unless some of you guys blow my cover. Note I have not listed any publisher by name. Anyway, as I emailed Dave and another cool guy here, I am not the idiot I so often pretend to be. I'm a traditionally published author and Dave will vouch for me, I think. Anyway, I had to answer the uninformed attack on my intelligence. Thanks for hearing me out. BTW, I've joined, so you may be seeing my name. Don't puke when you see it. For Christ's sake, that other post was tongue in cheek, to put it lightly.

[aka eraser]

I'm reasonably certain that "other publisher" eyeballs this board with some regularity so I think you just outed yourself.

More and more PA writers peek over here too so I have a hunch the "losers and wannabes" might not be too thrilled to see you over "there" either.

[DaveKuzminski]

I don't take any of this in a laughing manner. I might paste a smiley on occasion to let others know that I'm being deliberately sarcastic or don't believe what was stated, but I do not laugh at any writer's troubles.

As to what aka eraser stated, it's very likely true that you've outed yourself. I know, and I believe several others do too, that there are some writers from certain places that frequent this board for the purpose of gathering information.

[Gala]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I am not the idiot I so often pretend to be.<hr></blockquote>

Eager to know who you are, as this is your first post.

Missy S. King. <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_hippie.gif" />

[James D Macdonald]

Hi, R. L.

Let us know when your password at that other publisher's board stops working, okay?

[rlfulgham]

Mr. Kuminsky had no knowledge that I hoaxed WN or "the other publisher". He was very kind to me when I used my real name at the WN forum, that's all. I will not be pulling any more hoaxes of any kind, though there some who enjoyed my little comedies and paradies at WN. I have already been booted off the forum at "the other publisher". They may have made my book unavailable, but I hope not. Goodbye.

[Stephenie Hovland]

Edited to compensate for something funny to me and to no one else.

Of course, if you had been in my shoes, it woulda been funny.

Didn't mean to apply it to anyone here, by the way.

[sherri234]

Can someone tell me what the WN Forum initials stand for. Thanks much.

warm regards, susie

[DaveKuzminski]

WN is Writers Net over at www.writers.net/forum (http://www.writers.net/forum)

[Stephanie]

I don't know what you're talking about in the body of your post, but I believe "besmirch" is the word you're looking for: charge falsely or with malicious intent; attack the good name and reputation of someone; smear so as to make dirty or stained.

There is besmear, of course, which is to spread or daub (a surface). Perhaps you were besmeared all over the place?

Course, now I'm all bewildered...

[rlfulgham]

I meant besmearched. Smeared. I teach at a school for handicapped children. Two of them have brain tumors. So the other Stephanie's post was not only offensive, it was cruel to the thousands of people -- many of them poets and writers -- who read these posts.
I'm only responding to this because I'm curious who has what to say. At least my hoaxes harmed no one and were good spirited. Your comment was mean spirited, Stephanie, because you joined the other Stephanie in exhibiting bad taste and inflicting painful "humor".

I was making people laugh. You were making one person feel alone and isolated here. You were the highschool girl who joins the mob in torturing a girl who does fit into the incrowd.
Both of you should be ashamed of yourselves to remind an old man that he is still the outsider he has always been and is not welcome in your crowd.

[Stephanie]

What old man? Roberta is a woman's name.

Now I'm utterly bemused!

[rlfulgham]

Had to change that name on the bio. Too many stones being thrown from inside the mob. Well, think I'll go down to the deli now. There's this chick there I like despite her pretentions. She makes an excellent baloney sandwich.

[Stephenie Hovland]

Wow! Guess that was taken wrong, huh!

I do have a sense of humor. Life is hard. You have to. Would it make you feel any better if I told you a young girl I know died of a brain tumor just this weekend? She had a sense of humor, too. I can still enjoy life. Sorry I wrecked yours!

And, I am so opposite of the teasing girls from your school days, it isn't funny!

Anyway, I'll let it go as a way-too-sensitive reception.

Or, perhaps, a really off-beat sense of humor. Yes, that's what I'm choosing to believe. Nice try! You almost had me believing I hurt your feelings.

Just for the record, I'd never do that intentionally.

[rlfulgham]

Hi,
I lashed out because this brought up memories of high school, when I really was picked on. That was only 40 years ago. I know you folks are decent people -- I guess I want you to know I'm a decent person too. I got mad because I confessed to playing tricks on innocent people, then got a taste of my own medicine. I'm going to fix my bio and hope we can forget this happened. I'm in the absurd situation of having to apologise for my first apology. I tell you, I may be the silliest person on earth at times. But I'm a writer, like you folks, and I hope you'll let me hang around on that principle alone. :gone

[absolutewrite]

Hey Richard,

You're more than welcome here, and I think we'll all just agree to start again. :grin One favor to ask, though--

We have only one rule on the board. It is: "Respect your fellow writers." No matter what your beef is with the publisher (and ohhh, how I do understand that beef, believe me!), please don't put down fellow writers ("losers and wannabes"). Many of their authors are on this board, and they're of all levels. Regardless of talent, though, the fact is that most of us share the same dream and are working toward it. We're not two different teams fighting against each other.

Oh, and will it help if I tell you I was nicknamed Jenny Gladnerd in the 6th grade? :grin

[absolutewrite]

Okay, Richard, now I'm confused...

payn.freelinuxhost.com/Pro.htm (http://payn.freelinuxhost.com/Pro.htm)

I think I will go lie down now. :shrug

[AnneMarble]

Okay, Richard, now I'm confused... payn.freelinuxhost.com/Pro.htm

Me, too. :huh

I think I will go lie down now.

Don't forget the relaxing herbal chamomile and lavender pillow. |I

[absolutewrite]

Ha!

Okay, Richard, you can't have it both ways. Here, you're telling us it was all a hoax and your praise of PA was tongue-in-cheek, then in subsequent posts, you're praising PA for giving writers a chance. Please explain. It sounds like you were hoaxing us about your hoax...

[rlfulgham]

Oh, I just found this. Sorry to take so long. I'm not sure, but I'll bet the Olde Englishe spelling of "besmirched" was "besmearched". Seems I remember this from grad school.

As for my confusing posts, I couldn't agree more that they are confusing. This is because I kept changing my mind. It's also because I first acted intellectually, then acted emotionally. 8o But there's another reason: I wanted to keep out of trouble with PublishAmerica. So I thought I better defend it, though I had just attacked it. So I defended it and got into an incredible argument. At the end, I found myself forced to admit that I cannot defend their deliberate deception of writers. If they pull my book, then they've broken the contract and I'll find another publisher. I have one in mind who wants to see the book -- so I'm now hoping PublishAmerica will kick me out. Here's the final post I posted at both Absolute Write (Beware) and Writers Net:

"I just enjoyed a great debate at another writing forum. I initially argued that author mills have their place because they enable everyone to see themselves in print regardless of ability. There are no "losers". All previsouly unpublished writers can feel good about themselves and call themselves authors.

"I retract that argument here. I changed my initial viewpoint because my peers 'wised me up'.

"It's the classic Shakespearian truism: be true to yourself. Take the easiest path to getting your words between covers if you just want to fool yourself. If you want respect from your peers -- if you want recognition as an author -- if you want readers -- then you must do it the hard way.

"It's like in those schools where all students get the same award, no matter which student really deserved it. 'Everyone is Valedictorian this year!'

"That isn't winning an award. That's bringing everyone down to the lowest level. It's saying "The best is no better than the worst". My respects to Mr. Kuzminski and Dave MacDonald."

My respects also to you and the two Stephanies whom I attacked only because they touched a raw nerve. I hope to be a better human being from now on and will think carefully before I say anything on a public forum. :thumbs

[rtilryarms]

Uh oh…

What happened? You thought you were coming here to read a response to your last drooling diatribe didn’t you? Shame on you for enjoying this public pounding.

Everybody has issues with you, the entire internet has banned you and yet you still parade yourself as the final solution and Gods gift to the writing world.

Somehow you prefer your fantasy world over the real one. That is fine but we are requesting then that you stay there and quit polluting ours.

So, we decided that you were using us as your pathetic attempt to re-communicate to a world that has ostracized you.
We do not want to be involved with your self destruction. You were banned from here and everywhere else for a reason and we will not permit you to communicate even third party.

WARNING:
Any further attempts at communication from you will be forwarded to people with whom you associate; personally and professionally. If you are going to bother me or us, then you will also be bothering them. Maybe they can make you stop. Or they will kick you out of their lives as well. Your next communication will be the one that you can use to find out if I am serious and what the ramifications are. It is just a click of the keyboard for me. Your choice.

[James D Macdonald]

Now it can be revealed:

Osama bin Laden is the Amazon Slammer.

Ever since Osama had his novel (Jihad Days and Kabul Nights) turned down by PA he's had this insane desire to bring down that Frederick, Maryland based company. He doesn't care who he hurts along the way. You know those international terrorists.

That's why there were armed guards at the PA convention earlier this year. Homeland Security is on it.

Yo! FBI! You want to find Osama? Just track down the Amazon Slammer.

[rtilryarms]

Oh man...

that's a good one!

[mysteryhost]

Let me guess, I missed something here....right?

[rtilryarms]

No.

Why?

[James D Macdonald]

Osama bin Laden hates America because he was turned down by PublishAmerica.

Osama has called out Willem Meiners: "Just you and me, baby. Mano a mano in Wahiristan. I'll show you what POD means: Pound On Dude."

To which Meiners (speaking through an interpreter) replied: "Bring it on."

The trouble began when Frederick, Maryland, based PublishAmerica turned down Osama's novel, Jihad Days and Kabul Nights in early 2000.

"That novel was horrible," says PA co-owner Miranda Prather. "No plot, flat characters, stiff dialog. If we published that gobbler Sominex would have gone out of business. Besides, since Osama was in hiding in a cave in Tora Bora he wouldn't have been able to do book signings, he'd already maxed out his credit card, and he refused to give us the addresses of 100 of his friends and associates."

Replies Osama, "Don't take that tone with me. I find your comments to be comedy. You are under a wide variety of misconceptions, and I will expect your apology. You're making a spectacle of yourself with this sort of language. "

Larry Clopper, speaking from an undisclosed location, commented: "I love the chicken wings here at Hooters."

More on this story as it develops.

[rtilryarms]

"I love the chicken wings here at Hooters."

Now you're exaggerating. No one really likes the Hooters' chicken wings, they just use the greasy sauce to hide the slobber.

[LiamJackson]

Hooters sells food? Who knew???

[James D Macdonald]

You may not believe this, but I've never been in a Hooters. Therefore you know that I am not Larry Clopper.

[rtilryarms]

LOL

[spooknov]

LJ, you made me choke on my coffee...:ha

[ChunkyC]

I've never been in a Hooters
Better get prepared, Jim. Now that Pamela Anderson has written(?) a novel, Hooters might start hosting book signings.

[rtilryarms]

I was observing two Hooters waitresses in server's training. They were jogging to keep in shape. Curious, I watched and followed them. Soon, I was really getting into the concept of getting in shape in order to be a serving girl. I decided I too could be a Hooters' server. I mimicked them perfectly, stride for stride and hair wisp blow for blow. But when they stopped, I found I could not get the rhythm of their breathing.
I tried to pace their gasping but just could not match the beat.
I decided it was not worth trying to be a Hooter’s server because I just could not get into their...

... pants.

[ChunkyC]

:smack http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/lol.gif

[rtilryarms]

heh

[absolutewrite]

I second that :smack .

[ChristinaAshbaugh]

Poor Osama! He's hooked up to a dialysis machine in his little cave in Afghanstan and people just contine to make fun of him because of his turn down from PA. :)

You know, I betcha the villain here is George "Dubya" Bush. He was probably turned down by PublishAmerica too...after all, he can't conjuate the verb "to be" worth a darn and speaking tends to be a big problem for him. He's an IDIOT, too. Fueher...das ist ihn!!!!! (please, you needn't understand what I just said, lol, I don't even know if I spelled it right. My German is a sad story) Okay, I better shut up here or I'll be the villain. But what have I got to loose? The CIA is already on my tail, or so I'm thinkin' from my last encounter....

You guys know too much. ::SHUTTING UP!!!::

Off the soap box!

[drgnlvrljh]

Okay.

I'm lost.

[James D Macdonald]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

(Crawford, TX.) George W. Bush announced today that he has joined PublishAmerica's elite group of over 12,000 happy authors.

The President of the United States, speaking from his ranch in Crawford, Texas, made the announcement during a casual moment while mountain biking with his Secret Service escort.

"I'd always wanted to write a kid's book," Mr. Bush said, "and my wife, she's a children's librarian you know, when I showed her the manuscript for Gerry the 'Mander, she said it wasn't like anything she'd ever read."

Gerry the 'Mander is about a salamander who, after a series of adventures, becomes President of the United States and leader of the free world. " 'Mander, salamander, commander, get it?" Mr. Bush said in his off-the-cuff remarks.

"I read the contract carefully, or, I mean, Mr. Cheney did, and he said there wasn't anything unusual in it," Mr. Bush said. There was no problem supplying a list of 100 names of friends to PublishAmerica for their publicity campaign, he added: "I just gave them the names of all hundred members of the Senate. I know they'll want to buy lots of copies."

Mr. Bush is planning a multi-state tour when his book comes out. He looks forward to reading it to students in elementary schools across the nation.

[rtilryarms]

you have a career in curmudgeonism lol

[DaveKuzminski]

Can't you tell that James is trying to become Bush's Chief Toady of Curmudgeonism? ;)

[absolutewrite]

:rollin

Oh, I miss that smiley where he's laughing and pounding the table until he cries.

I am NOT adding new smileys until we make our Big Move, which, I might add, should happen in about 2 weeks.

We're moving from Ezboard to vBulletin unless anyone tells me horror stories between now and then.

[ChunkyC]

I like this one myself: http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage12/1.gif

Off to check out vBulletin....

[ChunkyC]

...okay, they have member custom avatars, so I'm in. (like I have a veto :b )

[maestrowork]

I like php based bulletins. I belong to a few. In many ways they are superior to ezBoard, which I think is very clunky. Admin functions are probably also better. The only drawback, I think, is that you need to have your own servers. The good thing is you have more control.

[James D Macdonald]

Will we keep the archives?

[ChunkyC]

Uncle Jim; I had a quick look at the features over at vBulletin and one is an import function, so we (I should say Jenna) should be able to transfer everything over.

But these are computers, so I'm jottin' down the link to my bookworm graphic, just in case.

[ChunkyC]

(This message was left blank)

[aka eraser]

What I'm wondering is if it's possible to leave this board intact, if not exactly operational, during the transfer, so that if the importation of the existing threads goes awry, we can try again. I guess that assumes that the importation involves copying and not removing.

I'm getting another headache now. Where's our techno-gurus to reassure us about this stuff?

[maestrowork]

It's not a bad idea. But from my experience in IT, if you have parallel systems for deploy/transfer, it could get hairy really quickly. Issues such as when do you do a final cut off-- and what gets transfered and when, etc. Do we lock down the old site just for "viewing" purposes? New posts must go to the new site? What if the new site crashes or doesn't work...

I'm probably thinking way ahead. But these are the things to consider if we want to actually move everything to the new site while keeping AW operational.

[Lori Basiewicz]

From my experiences as a user with major transfers from one system to another -- some of them very recent -- the management team brings in junk food and caffeinated products and provides plenty of opportunities for people to 'just walk away' for a few minutes during the first couple of days of rollout.

Interestly enough, Frank, the last major rollout, all the worry and dread of what the first day would be like were wasted. There were no major problems.

I'm sure it will be just like that with this.

[ChunkyC]

I've been lurking around the vBulletin forums a bit, and the general transfer process seems to go like this:

The original site is copied to the new site. However, the original site stays active while the new site is checked out for boo-boos. Since there are no 'pointers' to the new site yet, no one is posting there. Once a successful transfer is confirmed, a final copy is done to get any posts/changes made in the interim and the original site is shut down, then the new site goes on line.

That's what I've gleaned from the discussions over there.

[aka eraser]

Okay, that sounds like a plan. I'm reassured. And grateful that I'm not in charge.

[arrowqueen]

Will there be a trail of breadcrumbs we can follow?

[aka eraser]

Yes aq. As soon as all the details are known they'll be posted where all can see. I think Jenna was planning on at least a couple of weeks' lead time.

I hope.

[DaveKuzminski]

Munch, munch, munch.... Uh, why are you all staring at me?

Oh, I'm not supposed to eat these? ;)

[rtilryarms]

Hansel!

[Jbridger]

Alberto Gonzales vetted the memo. Intimidation of bad followers is allowed as long as no actual organ failure is incurred. No problemo for the loyal.

[arrowqueen]

Dammit, Dave. Now I'm screwed!

[DaveKuzminski]

What gets me is we have someone registered for this forum as Uday Hussein.

[snarzler]

I think he's Meiner's Iraqi cousin. He's going to copy this thread into a .doc and see if PA offers it a contract.

Is there a bonus for most contracts offered or is status granted by just having a "very special" ms given a contract period? And does PA have to rescind the offer or does it count if the "author(s)" turn it down? And who control the badges for the Wall Of InPAminy?

Andrea 0]

[DaveKuzminski]

I wouldn't call it a Hall of inPAminy. That might limit it to PA when there are others who are equally deserving.

As to the bonus you mentioned, I think it would be interesting to set up a point scale for some competition such as the following. You get one point for submitting a bogus manuscript that deserves rejection to any publisher. You gain another point if it's accepted. You gain two points for public humiliation if the publisher withdraws their acceptance after learning over the web that the manuscript was bogus. However, you gain three points for public humiliation if the bogus manuscript reaches publication before you alert the world to its bogus content.

As it stands now, Kevin earned two points, possibly four. Dee earned at least two and is still in the running to earn up to three more. Atlanta Nights definitely earned four points. It's going to be difficult to surpass those efforts unless we refine the point system a bit more to include other variables that didn't occur to me yet.

[rtilryarms]

Mac, you are such a cut up

[Fractured_Chaos]

Demented is good! :D

[James D. Macdonald]

This is a thread for the off-topic messages from the Never Ending PublishAmerica Thread (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=524) up in the Bewares and Background Check Board (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22).

I'm still trying to figure out how to create one big file of everything since the boards were re-formed in February. Until then, I'll be cut-n-pasting here.

This means that the original authors won't be able to delete or modify their posts. Sorry about that.

Messages that are moved here are wonderful messages. All that being moved here means is that, in my judgment, they don't belong in the big NEPAT.

-- JDM

[James D. Macdonald]

Working Author (member.php?u=1133) vbmenu_register("postmenu_237348", true);
Esteemed New Member

Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 10

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bringing back The Neverending PublishAmerica Thread. Personally, I've missed it immensely. The thread has not only been very informative to unsuspecting new authors, but current and ex-PA authors (like me).

Please keep up the good work.
Teena

[James D. Macdonald]

Gravity (http://member.php?u=160) vbmenu_register("postmenu_237431", true);
Board fanatic

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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Land o' Goshen
Posts: 168 ============

Yee-haw! Yes, PA, that unpleasant puckering sensation you're feeling in your collective nether regions is all too real. This thread is once again active.

Everybody. Sing along with me now, and make it mellow. "Back in the saddle again..."

John

[James D. Macdonald]

Kevin Yarbrough (http://member.php?u=365) vbmenu_register("postmenu_237443", true);
Pseudocriminal at large

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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 619

==========

There goes PA's false sense of security.

[James D. Macdonald]

saraht (member.php?u=105) vbmenu_register("postmenu_238543", true);
Esteemed New Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5
images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif
========

I'm so glad this is back! Never thought I'd miss anything this much but I did.

On the count of three everyone commence to smiling and waving to the folks over at PA.

Violet

[James D. Macdonald]

Sparhawk (http://member.php?u=1102) vbmenu_register("postmenu_238567", true);
Jenna's Cabana Boy

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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Thundera
Posts: 193
=========

:) :hi: done.

Of course I don't think PA will be smiling back.

[James D. Macdonald]

Christine N. (http://member.php?u=101) vbmenu_register("postmenu_238635", true);
Czarina of New Jersey

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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 610
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Whew, there goes all my free time. LOL. Ok, let's keep it on topic. What's new on the PA boards...

Nope, nothing, same old crap. OK, sorry UJ, I'll be good. I just wanted to chime in now that the thread's reopened.

[James D. Macdonald]

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Esteemed New Member

Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4

=========

hello

[Jean Marie]

sent you a pm Macallister. I look forward to your reply-

[Christine N.]

So, anything new from our friend Shemp??? He was always a fun topic, but he's been quiet as far as I can tell.

[MacAllister]

So here's what we're going to do. I'm going to uncharacteristically play heavy-handed censor.

Y'all can yell if you don't like it. That's okay. :D

We aren't going to discuss PAS or OTR on the public boards. Feel free to discuss it privately.

None of the OTR folk are here to defend themselves, for reasons of their own. Many of those reasons are both good and respectful.

They aren't the enemy.

Neither are any of the other individuals involved.

PA, the amoral "publisher" is the enemy.

So, how 'bout that Shemp? What DO you suppose he's up to?

[brinkett]

:) Brinkett--that was, in fact, the overwhelming consensus of the box full of PMs I've been trying to get to, this afternoon.

Look up. :)
Ahhh... :) You're too fast on that delete button, Madamoiselle MacAllister!

[robeiae]

:Ssh:= :Thumbs:

Rob :)

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Y'know, I don't even know what OTR stands for. But I can promise not to discuss it, whatever it is, along with That Web Site That Shall Not Be Named.

[oswann]

This is like watching a Norweigan film in Morocco, after having missed the first ten minutes and trying to piece together what's happening after all the cuts for religious reasons.

I knew I wouldn't understand, but I came in here anyway. My fault.


Os.

[Christine N.]

Yeah, no idea on the OTR front. What is that, anyway?

Still no Shemp news?

[CaoPaux]

I missed something volatile? Aaaaarghhh!!! I'll never leave the house again! :Headbang:

[robeiae]

I missed something volatile? Aaaaarghhh!!! I'll never leave the house again! :Headbang:
Just delete your post, Cao. Then it will look like you were part of the bruhaha.

Rob :)

[MacAllister]

Just delete your post, Cao. Then it will look like you were part of the bruhaha.
Ah! Or if you say please, I could do it FOR you!

I was realizing last night how much PA refuses to see that its writers are human beings, with feelings, faces, families, and so on.

When someone sends them a manuscript, that ms. isn't just words on a page to the writer--it represents lost sleep, missed evenings spent with spouse or kids, dishes too long in the sink, and books still waiting to be read. The manuscript is a piece of someone's life.

It deserves some respect.

Little wonder the feeling of betrayal can be so deep, when the level of PA's perfidy finally becomes clear.

[Susan Gable]

YES! Here is the place where I could say that I'm glad the Neverending Thread is open again without being off-topic. Thanks, Jim. :) And thanks for agreeing to moderate that thread, and thanks to Jenna for letting it reopen.

I missed the community we'd built up in that thread - and I know that's not what the thread is for. So, perhaps this thread can be the place for the more community-aspects, and we can reserve the Neverending thread to be the place where we stay on-topic about getting the truth about PA out to the world.

:)

Susan G.

[AnneMarble]

Did you see the Listmania choices that come up when you are on the page for Meiner's latest book?

One is a list of Farces, and another is called "Bimbo Make-over reference works"!
:ROFL:

[PVish]

So, anything new from our friend Shemp??? He was always a fun topic, but he's been quiet as far as I can tell.

We just had a major holiday weekend. No doubt he died again.

The next major holiday is Labor Day—maybe he'll be reborn then.

[Gravity]

You may be right, PV. Over in the Land of Poz, our friend has pretty much disappeared off the radar screen. Lynn Barry got reinstated, though, and seems happy about it. Maybe Shemp will also peep up over the battlements directly...

John

[Kevin Yarbrough]

Didn't he pretty much vanish after Jenna closed the Nepat thread down? My thinking is since Nepat is now open and Lynn is back he will come back soon enough. After all, he can't have us saying stuff and the main 'Hen' back and not have a few words to say about it.

[robeiae]

You may be right, PV. Over in the Land of Poz, our friend has pretty much disappeared off the radar screen. Lynn Barry got reinstated, though, and seems happy about it. Maybe Shemp will also peep up over the battlements directly...
Reinstated??? Is that how they put it? What, was she put on leave without pay? That, of course, implies she might get pay...bets?

Rob :)

[Christine N.]

Ugh, I was just over looking at the PA boards. They made me want to throw up. There's a thread about Weiner's book and how "great it is" and how the "old school will be going down."

Then there's another thread about B&N and their refusal to order books, blah, blah, blah. The "I'm not self published" rears its ugly head.

I want to alternately choke the crap out of these people and hug them. Weiner's book is just his way of blanket brainwashing the authors. They really think that the things in that book are the truth about the publishing industry.

It's frightening - the PA bible has arrived. One more step on the way to becoming a full blown cult.

'Scuse me, I have to go wash my eyeballs. And puke.

[Gravity]

It's frightening - the PA bible has arrived. One more step on the way to becoming a full blown cult.

.

Chris, I think you've nailed it. What's a cult without guidebook? I mean, in Willie, Clopper, and Miranda we have the (unholy) Trinity, PA is the author's Promised Land, and now we have the Word coming from the hand of the Creator himself. "Go forth, take this tome and sucker them, er, that is, gather them in, my children..."

So who's the snake in this particular Passionless Play? I vote for Uncle Jim! :D

John (who obviously needs some more time studying the real Bible...)

[Jean Marie]

I read Weiner as weener. Can't be helped. Maybe I need new glasses? Nah, I believe I'm seeing it correctly.

Now, what are the chances that Clophead will come down from his ivory bathroom/throne with the new commandments? Naturally, they will be deemed mandatory for all to follow. One of which will be: Shemp has first right of refusal on which holiday to die or resurrect.

[writerjenn]

I read Weiner as weener.

OMG Jean Marie, we must have the same prescription! I read the same thing!!!

[Christine N.]

No I MEANT weener. Meiner is now Weiner. or Whiner.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

So who's the snake in this particular Passionless Play? I vote for Uncle Jim!Isn't there a bit somewhere in Kings where they list out all the foreign Gods and Goddesses that the people worshipped when they were naughty? Baal, Molech, Chemosh, Milcom, Ashtoreth, etc.?

I wanna be Ashtoreth.

[writerjenn]

Oh cripes, Christine...lol. For a second, I forgot that MEINER is his real last name. WEINER just looked um... 'right'.

Jenn

No I MEANT weener. Meiner is now Weiner. or Whiner.

[Christine N.]

LOL Jenn!

Over on the PA board, under the "Authors quoted in blah, blah blah..." thread, they've noticed the bad reviews. These reviews are well thought out and insightful, if not flattering. They are not direct attacks against the author or his relatives.

The PA authors STILL are defending the book! "Oh it's obvious none of those people read it." Excuse me?? One even had a QUOTE from the book to show how horrible the writing and editing was.

Even when shown the truth in all its glorious color, they won't believe it.

Ugh.

[Unique]

Oh cripes, Christine...lol. For a second, I forgot that MEINER is his real last name. WEINER just looked um... 'right'.

Jenn


You mean his name isn't wiener? Oh, my...

[James D. Macdonald]

Incoming!

[James D. Macdonald]

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Oh, ok.


I am sorry about that. It's a term I have been using a lot lately, but will not continue to use.

[James D. Macdonald]

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Great reviews of Weiner's book. Now, if a number of "report this" gets reviews pulled... and I don't know why any of those listed should be (except maybe those ludicrious 5 star farce ones) then does a number of "was this review helpful"'s help to keep it? If so, I clicked yes on all the ones that were thoughtful and well written and NO on the two that were obvious drivel from PA authors.

I suggest we all try it and see what happens.Done. Good suggestion!

I wanted to report the glowing but otherwise well-written review from A. L. who (and this is why I wanted to report it) used the review as a vehicle for shilling her own book titles--but apparently "report this" is just a button, with no opportunity for comments. I wouldn't want to "report this" without being able to say why.

[James D. Macdonald]

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Done. Good suggestion!

I wanted to report the glowing but otherwise well-written review from A. L. who (and this is why I wanted to report it) used the review as a vehicle for shilling her own book titles--but apparently "report this" is just a button, with no opportunity for comments. I wouldn't want to "report this" without being able to say why.Apparently, PA shills don't have a problem with doing this, though.

[James D. Macdonald]

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All right, now Meiners can't say I never did anything for him. I gave him a 5-star review, though I doubt it will remain long. Better hurry over to see it. ;)

[James D. Macdonald]

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Hmmmm. Now the FAVORABLE reviews are gone.

[James D. Macdonald]

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Okay, just in case, here's my review of his book:

This is a wonderful book to read if you're planning on scamming writers around the world as the author has much to say concerning that topic. I think that everyone interested in plundering the wallets of writers should first buy this book so they can see how to properly upstage the biggest former scammers in the publishing industry.

[James D. Macdonald]

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Hmmmm. Now the FAVORABLE reviews are gone.

The more I look at amazon, the more convinced I am it's run by a bunch of ten-thumbed monkey-spanks. Be sure of this: by day's end all the reviews will be gone, and tomorrow it'll all start again. "Weird" is too tame a word for these shenanigans...

John

[James D. Macdonald]

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The reviews on Amazon .com are changing faster than ever before ! Most from this morning are gone {Willem Meiners book reviews] Somebody has a trigger finger. Talk about fast !!

[James D. Macdonald]

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Oh Lordie, this is rich. Go to amazon. Type in Willie's name. Up will come FIVE books. Three will be his, one of them will be poor David Maisel's again (how does that poor guy get his book linked there?), and the last, TAA-DAAA, is none other than Ed Williams' Rough as a Cob!

Ed, my boy, you're steppin' in tall cotton now, son! Think of it...you and Willie, rubbing shoulders.

Makes my insides quiver, I tell ya (or is that the hamdog I had for lunch?) *G*

John

[James D. Macdonald]

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Yes, just think of all the nasty paper cuts they might acquire. ;)

[James D. Macdonald]

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Sean honey, go get em' !! I, too have written several letters to P.A. In fact if you should need some stamps,I have a roll with your name on it..!!

[James D. Macdonald]

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Only the three that were flaming were removed..The milder are still there..

[James D. Macdonald]

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Sean honey, go get em' !! I, too have written several letters to P.A. In fact if you should need some stamps,I have a roll with your name on it..!!

Cool. I have a question though.

Are the stamps you have the self-adhesive kind? With as many letters as I may end up having to write, I can see my tongue drying out mighty quick should I have to lick all the stamps.

:idea:

[James D. Macdonald]

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Yes, just think of all the nasty paper cuts they might acquire. ;)


And in my experience, paper cuts are the worst....especially Bible Page cuts. Those cuts HURT.


:ROFL:

[James D. Macdonald]

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Sean, the stamps are peel and stick, same thing I'd like to do to P.A.

[Sarashay]

I am glad to see this thread is here for people to vent so the PA thread has a better signal to noise ratio. Thank you, Uncle Jim.

[MacAllister]

Yup, venting, ranting, general silliness and so forth is all actively encouraged here--about the only boundary is that we stay respectful toward one another.

[tab]

I was over at the PA threads and noticed somebody titled their new book "Olla Podrida." The author translated it as "spicy stew." However, it means "rotten pot." I'm hispanic (Mexican-American) and I've never heard of this translation before even as Spanglish or slang, is this a colloquism from another Spanish dialect? I don't know why I find this so curious, but I do.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Your translation matches mine, but then I'm only going off classroom Spanish.

Google search (http://tinyurl.com/7zjr5) turns up a recipe for "cold weather soup of unpoetic name but with rich flavor" (http://www.acocinar.com/olla.htm) (I hope I got that right!), so I think the PA author's claim, while sloppily worded, does hold up. (The name seems to be the result of some sort of phonetic drift, according to this article, although my vocabulary isn't up to the task of translating the original name.)

On a similar note, there's a popular southern chocolate pudding dessert called "Mississippi Mud." And one of my Dad's hunting buddies likes to cook up huge pots of "Road-Kill Gumbo," named for the huge variety of game involved. Dunno what it is about cuisine that attracts to it unappetizing names; must be some universal sick sense of humor we've got when it comes to food!

[robeiae]

Puts me in the mood for some gruel...(perhaps with a glass of grog)

Rob :)

[Christine N.]

And a big bowl of goulash. Ick.

[tab]

Oh duh! Its a type of stew! Not a translation. That's where I got missed up. Its like a gumbo. Mmmmm..roadkill...

[Christine N.]

I posted a review of Weiner's book. Once it's up, you all go over there and click the Yes button. Make it stick. One PA author has complained to Amazon about the negative reviews (none of which were attacks, I don't think) so we just gotta keep 'em up there.

[AnneMarble]

I posted a review of Weiner's book. Once it's up, you all go over there and click the Yes button. Make it stick. One PA author has complained to Amazon about the negative reviews (none of which were attacks, I don't think) so we just gotta keep 'em up there.
Did you see the "So you want to..." list somebody came up with? There's a new list called "So you'd like to... Throw Your Writing Career Out the Window" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/guides/guide-display/-/3V7546PPPG1MT/ref=cm_bg_dp_m_1/102-5380065-6984926) that comes up when you search for the new Meiners book. It mentions Atlanta Nights and the Meiner book, and then recommends better books on writing and publishing, including "Ten Percent of Nothing.

Hmm. Lists like that might be another good way to warn aspiring writers away from this book. Now I have to think of other books I can warn writers away from. :)

[astonwest]

I foresee......(rubbing temples)

PA authors suggesting on the PA message board, create lists of every book their friends have written...

(though I think that's already been done, but I could be wrong)

[tab]

So now a PA author is saying that no one has a right to review Meiners' book unless they have read it. That's fine. I agree with that. What gets me is that these are the same people who beg their fellow authors give their books good reviews whether or no they have read their book!

[JennaGlatzer]

Anne, that's hilarious. :)

I just added my ratings, Christine. Nice job.

[Christine N.]

I thank you :)

[James D. Macdonald]

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FYI, someone (a PA author who I will not point out) has gotten Amazon to remove the negative reviews. Uh, I wish they wouldn't just do it because someone says to do it. If they actually read the reviews, they would see they are all well-thought out and meaningful. Just because they're bad reviews doesn't make them, well, bad reviews.

This stinks. Worse than Weiner's book.

[James D. Macdonald]

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Not all of them are gone. Mine is still there. I'll bet Willem is fuming about it, too. ;)

[James D. Macdonald]

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How in the Sam Hill can a PA author tell amazon to do anything?? I don't get it. What kind of pull does that author have, anyway?

John

[James D. Macdonald]

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Not all of them are gone. Mine is still there. I'll bet Willem is fuming about it, too. ;)
It's 'cause your review isn't bringing down the star rating, since you gave it five stars.

Rob :)

[James D. Macdonald]

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Then write five star bad reviews, wot?

Tri

[James D. Macdonald]

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From your favorite-

"On the upside, Sooty seems to have been removed from the board. Jean
Marie has been gone for a while, again. But the big fish left is
Saundra Julian. If her and CBennet can be tossed, the board has a
chance again. Hell, maybe LindaP will even come down from her pompous,
self-righteous horse at that point."

Yeah he's still around.....

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[James D. Macdonald]

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I posted this at the overflow board, but I'll put it here too. I put up my own reveiw of Weiner's book. If you get a chance, take a peek. And be sure to tell Amazon how helpful it was to you :)


Whoops. It's not up yet. Check back there tomorrow.

Edit - OK, the review is there now.

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[James D. Macdonald]

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J.S. he's always around, and always making trouble. P.A. is all he has. It's his way of getting attention from his publisher. So, he lashes out at anyone for whatever reason. One more sign of decay at Pirate America.

[James D. Macdonald]

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P.A. is all he has.

How absolutely and utterly sad........

[James D. Macdonald]

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Who's Joyce Ann?

[James D. Macdonald]

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Who's Joyce Ann?
Joyce Ann is a PA Author.

[James D. Macdonald]

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Trice ...

You live in Hemet? I have family living in Nuevo and I live in Yucaipa. Do you belong to any local writing groups and if so which ones? I am going to attend the Inland Empire branch of the California Writers Club in a couple of weeks in Montclair.

--EPK

[James D. Macdonald]

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Naw, can't get around to groups. Didn't know Inland Empire had a writing group.

Tri

[James D. Macdonald]

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Joyce Ann Edmonton is one of those PA cheerleaders. She's the one who wrote to Amazon and told them that the negative reviews were inappropriate and had them removed.( Amazon should read those reviews and decide for themselves IMO)

Reading her posts regarding Meiners book, she checks in on this thread. don't know why she doesn't believe what all these nice people are telling her.

[James D. Macdonald]

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don't know why she doesn't believe what all these nice people are telling her.

Because she is a PA zombie ...

--EPK

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Naw, can't get around to groups. Didn't know Inland Empire had a writing group.

If you were interested in going we could always carpool ... I wouldn't mind picking you up. The next meeting of the Inland Empire Branch of the California Writers Club is on the 23rd at 10 am at the Borders bookstore in Montclair.

--EPK

[astonwest]

One would think there would be a way to port these messages over without copying and pasting......

[James D. Macdonald]

One would think there would be a way to port these messages over without copying and pasting......

One would think, but if so I don't know how to do it.

[Medievalist]

I'll ask around; I know some people using this system at a couple of campuses. I know you could do it via MySQL, but I bet there's an admin interface as well--maybe it's something only ChuckyC can reach?

[astonwest]

My guess is that moderators (which Uncle Jim is) have the ability to do it. Maybe another mod could give a crash course to UJ?

[James D. Macdonald]

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I think Amazon is removing those reviews not because they want to stiffle free speech or that PA has any pull, but because of a more monetary reason. Amazon.com has been sued a few times because of bad reviews that were left up at their site that deal with deragatory remarks. The last I believed was by an ex-KGB agent who wrote a book about espionage. I think they know that PA is doing wrong and a lot of people are putting up bad reviews because of this. Their thinking may be that if left up PA, or the authors of the book being talked about, might try to sue them.

[James D. Macdonald]

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It looks as if the PA Police don't care too much about the non-US Amazon sites. In terms of population, it may not be worth their time, perhaps?
There's one review on the Canadian and one on the UK sites, neither positive.
Hm. Wonder whether Amazon has an Iceland site?
-Barbara

[James D. Macdonald]

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While I'm finding that reviewing Meiners' book on Amazon's websites (can anyone suggest a few others?) is good creative writing practice not to mention its therapeutic qualities, I wondered if a mass onslaught by all available disenchanted PA authors might help. I realise that it is compulsive reading only for newbies and PA die-hards and that few readers have ever heard of him or his company, nevertheless the reviews do seem to stir Amazon into deleting them with undignified haste - although the latest ones are surviving well. It only takes a few moments to put one up and who knows if it is done on a regular basis by many the pages could become cult reading like Atlanta Nights. The link to PA on Amazon's page makes me so annoyed I can't stop clicking on it. While Meiners and his scammers handbook are hardly a blip on the radar for Internet booksellers, constantly having to delete reviews while fielding complaints from fawning PA writers might eventually get to them. And unlike PA they have no incentive to ban their own customers

I agree with Jim that Internet articles are still a great way to get PA exposure into the search engines.

Just a couple of thoughts on a sunny day.

Ed.
aka "BrahamSeer" aka Published Arthur "Mick"

[James D. Macdonald]

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try Barnes and Noble.com. It takes three days for reviews to show up, but last time I looked there were only two PA cheerleader reviews up. I wrote one (ok, two) but I don't know if they made it up or not.

[James D. Macdonald]

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One by one, Willem's reviews are vanishing from amazon. Down to six now, including a long piece of nonsensical fluff by a PA hanger-on.

Frustrating, ain't it?

John

[James D. Macdonald]

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Anybody else read this on the Mindsight forum?

Web posted Thursday, August 19, 1999
4:38 a.m. CT

Former ENMU graduate student pleads guilty

By JANET BRESENHAM
Globe-News Staff Writer

CLOVIS, N.M. - Miranda Prather stared straight ahead and showed no emotion Wednesday morning in court as she pleaded guilty to three harassment charges in connection with threats she made two years ago against Eastern New Mexico University professors.

Prather, 25, a former ENMU graduate student, had been scheduled to go to trial this week on seven misdemeanor charges of harassment and one charge of filing a false police report stemming from the incidents in July 1997, according to court records.

Her first jury trial in March 1998 was declared a mistrial.

Instead, Prather agreed to a plea bargain in which she pleaded guilty to three of the harassment charges, and the other five charges were dismissed.

Under terms of the plea agreement, Prather - who could have been sentenced to about eight years in jail if convicted on all eight of the original charges - was placed on three years of supervised probation and given no jail time, Deputy District Attorney Melissa Eastham said.

However, 9th Judicial District Judge Robert Brack warned Prather that if she violates her probation, he will have the option of ordering her to serve the remainder of the three years in jail.

As a condition of probation, Prather will be allowed to return to Maryland, where her family lives, and she will have to send a monthly report to the New Mexico Adult Probation and Parole office, Eastham said.

Prather, who told the judge she is unemployed, declined a chance to make a statement in court before she was sentenced. She refused to comment on her case after the hearing.

When asked after her hearing about rumors that she was writing a book on the case or trying to get her story on NBC-TV's "Leeza Show," Prather just smiled, arched her eyebrows and said nothing.

Eastham said Prather's attorney, Tom Harden, told the court he had been contacted by the "Leeza Show" about a possible appearance by Prather.

None of Prather's victims were in court Wednesday. Eastham said letters were sent to all of them notifying them of the plea agreement and hearing. But she said the victims were reluctant to speak publicly because they were terrorized and frightened by Prather's threats.

Prather was charged with circulating fliers and mail in Portales claiming to be from "The Fist of God," which threatened death and injury to specific ENMU professors and to homosexuals in general.

Prather, an admitted lesbian whose own name topped the lists on the fliers, also was accused of staging an attack on herself, causing minor scratches on her thigh and cheek. Prather told Portales police that a woman named "Jessica Forrester," who looked just like her, had attacked her and forced her to circulate the fliers.

Police have never located a woman by the name of Jessica Forrester who matches Prather's description, and none of Prather's friends had ever seen or met her, Eastham said.

Initially, Prather was arrested July 23, 1997, and jailed for a short time before being released on bond and allowed to return to Maryland to live with family members, court records show.

Prather first became a student at Eastern in the fall of 1992 and earned a bachelor of arts degree with a major in English in the spring of 1996, officials said. She was pursuing a master of arts degree in English at the time of her arrest.

[James D. Macdonald]

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Very old news, EPK, and if I remember correctly, it has been agreed previously that it will not be discussed on this forum, or related articles posted on this forum.

[James D. Macdonald]

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Sorry, did not know that. This thread is way too large to read the entire thing.

--EPK

[James D. Macdonald]

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Don't know if this is widely known, but any company that would hire someone so...in need of professional help is, well, you know....


Web posted Thursday, August 19, 1999
4:38 a.m. CT

Former ENMU graduate student pleads guilty

By JANET BRESENHAM
Globe-News Staff Writer

CLOVIS, N.M. - Miranda Prather stared straight ahead and showed no emotion Wednesday morning in court as she pleaded guilty to three harassment charges in connection with threats she made two years ago against Eastern New Mexico University professors.

Prather, 25, a former ENMU graduate student, had been scheduled to go to trial this week on seven misdemeanor charges of harassment and one charge of filing a false police report stemming from the incidents in July 1997, according to court records.

Her first jury trial in March 1998 was declared a mistrial.

Instead, Prather agreed to a plea bargain in which she pleaded guilty to three of the harassment charges, and the other five charges were dismissed.

Under terms of the plea agreement, Prather - who could have been sentenced to about eight years in jail if convicted on all eight of the original charges - was placed on three years of supervised probation and given no jail time, Deputy District Attorney Melissa Eastham said.

However, 9th Judicial District Judge Robert Brack warned Prather that if she violates her probation, he will have the option of ordering her to serve the remainder of the three years in jail.

As a condition of probation, Prather will be allowed to return to Maryland, where her family lives, and she will have to send a monthly report to the New Mexico Adult Probation and Parole office, Eastham said.

Prather, who told the judge she is unemployed, declined a chance to make a statement in court before she was sentenced. She refused to comment on her case after the hearing.

When asked after her hearing about rumors that she was writing a book on the case or trying to get her story on NBC-TV's "Leeza Show," Prather just smiled, arched her eyebrows and said nothing.

Eastham said Prather's attorney, Tom Harden, told the court he had been contacted by the "Leeza Show" about a possible appearance by Prather.

None of Prather's victims were in court Wednesday. Eastham said letters were sent to all of them notifying them of the plea agreement and hearing. But she said the victims were reluctant to speak publicly because they were terrorized and frightened by Prather's threats.

Prather was charged with circulating fliers and mail in Portales claiming to be from "The Fist of God," which threatened death and injury to specific ENMU professors and to homosexuals in general.

Prather, an admitted lesbian whose own name topped the lists on the fliers, also was accused of staging an attack on herself, causing minor scratches on her thigh and cheek. Prather told Portales police that a woman named "Jessica Forrester," who looked just like her, had attacked her and forced her to circulate the fliers.

Police have never located a woman by the name of Jessica Forrester who matches Prather's description, and none of Prather's friends had ever seen or met her, Eastham said.

Initially, Prather was arrested July 23, 1997, and jailed for a short time before being released on bond and allowed to return to Maryland to live with family members, court records show.

Prather first became a student at Eastern in the fall of 1992 and earned a bachelor of arts degree with a major in English in the spring of 1996, officials said. She was pursuing a master of arts degree in English at the time of her arrest.

[James D. Macdonald]

Don't know if this is widely known, but any company that would hire someone so...in need of professional help is, well, you know....



The answers:

a) It's very widely known.

b) That they're willing to hire an ex-con and give her a second chance speaks well of PA.

c) The reason it's off topic in the main NEPAT is that it has nothing to do with PA's business practices.

[Kevin Yarbrough]

The answers:

a) It's very widely known.

b) That they're willing to hire an ex-con and give her a second chance speaks well of PA.

c) The reason it's off topic in the main NEPAT is that it has nothing to do with PA's business practices.
I think it does Jim. They hired someone who harrases people, and they do that to their authors. It fits in with their buisness model.

Did you also see she said she was unemployed? Isn't lying to the court illegal?

And if she harasses any authors would that revoke her probation? Think she might need to tone down those emails a bit or risk going to prison.

[James D. Macdonald]

I think she told the court in New Mexico she was unemployed in August, 1999. I believe PA was founded in August, 1999. I don't know when she joined PA, but I suspect it was after she returned to Maryland. She may well have been unemployed at the time, gone to Maryland, and hooked up with Clopper and Meiners. Using the strength of her not-completed Master's in English she'd have had more writing and literature experience than Clopper and Meiners put together. I can see why they'd have offered her a partnership.

If someone received email harassment from Miranda N. Prather, personally, I suppose they could talk to her parole officer or whoever handled her probation. Getting involved in an ongoing criminal conspiracy would probably violate the terms of her probation -- but up to now the fact of PA's nature hasn't been determined by a court of law (the only thing another court is likely to look at).

I find it odd that "Jessica" is one of the people who signs the Author Insult Team letters, and "Jessica" was the false name Miranda used in New Mexico. But I don't find a compelling case, and I do think it's off the subject of PublishAmerica, the company.

[astonwest]

And the three year probation would have ended in 2002...

[Susan Gable]

Since this is for stuff that doesn't quite fit in on the NEPAT, but I wanted to share my good news with my friends from that thread, I'll just say it here:

I made a list! <G> My new book, The Pregnancy Test, made #9 on Waldenbooks Series Romance Bestseller List. It's the first time I've ever hit a list, so I'm pretty darn excited about it!

:partyguy: :partyguy: :TheWave: :PartySmil

Party, anyone? :)

Susan G.

[Patricia]

Way to go, Susan! Good news; and I don't blame you for partying.

[DeePower]

Was it agreed to?

"it has been agreed previously that it will not be discussed on this forum, or related articles posted on this forum."

Dee

[James D. Macdonald]

Was it agreed to?

I made that decision.

The first time it came up, it led directly to Miranda taking her picture and information off classmates.com, BTW.

Remember that PA reads these threads. If you have information that could be useful in a court case against PA, keep it off the open boards.

[James D. Macdonald]

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Yeah just saw that, sorry about that.
Sara

[James D. Macdonald]

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Sean,
I apologize that I wrote your name incorrectly! Guess I was typing too fast.


Not a problem, ByGrace. People make that mistake all the time.

:)

[James D. Macdonald]

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Posts: 186

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Yee-haah! The boards are (at last) up and at 'em. Now, where were we...?

[MacAllister]

PMed you, Uncle Jim--I think I've figured out a way for you to port posts that will be less time-consuming.

[astonwest]

Thank heavens!

;)

[refit]

You know, I just can not believe the sick attitudes and harsh language being used on this forum. Honestly the whole lot of the PA basher line should be banned from this forum. They are stating untruths and half truths and actually have enough unmidigated audacity to throw insults around.

That is total crap and this is the one and only time I will visit this site. Infact, I will highly recommend people avoid this 'absolute write' site entirely because of thier shocking content.

Disgusting is what it is.

I know that by disputing the comments I will be accused of "masterbating" and "chest pounding" like other defenders have been.

However, I have had NO problems getting my books in bookstores. Nor in libraries. In fact my first book is in too many scholastic, public and government libraries to mention here. The list would just go on and on if I attempted to show each and every bookstore, library and retailer in Germany, Africa, the UK, America and Canada that stock my book. I have had no problems getting review copies sent out by my publisher. I have had excellent service and support by PA.

You all should be ashamed! If your book is not selling well - LOOK IN THE MIRROR FOR YOU AND ONLY YOU ARE AT FAULT!!!!

To ask an author what they have made is also insulting. Sales are entirely dependent on the marketing plan and budget of the individual author and not the publisher, store or location.
I couldn't believe the challanging post I saw on this issue. Sick really.

Why don't you all grow up... or if you must act like menacing children -how about finding some unsuspecting kid in a wheelchair to pound on? Sounds like you all would enjoy something like that.

Signed by the most disgusted author imaginable (a free-lance writer for 7 years, columnist for 5 years, author of 3 books, book reviewer and poet by the way)

[Sara Rachael Hope]

Sounds like you need to grow up and stop having temper tantrums!
And good for you that your book(s) sell well...although they probably aren't the PA ones!
Although, come to think of it, it might be possible they could be (based upon your extreme arrogance and desperate need to 'popularize' and publisize yourself and your questionable accomplishments).
Ohhh...but wait! You didn't even leave your name, did you?. Oops!
Shame on you!
You might need to read more about the subject of scamming publishers and the ones on top of the list: PublishAmerica being one of the 1st!
Best wishes,
:) D.

[CaoPaux]

The list would just go on and on if I attempted to show each and every bookstore, library and retailer in Germany, Africa, the UK, America and Canada that stock my book.Presuming you grasp the difference between "available for order" and "in stock" (on shelves), would you please post your ISBN so we may verify your claim?

ETA: Never mind, I found you via your post on Writer's Weekly. You may be interested to know that Borders does not stock you in their stores: you are order only. So...what stores are you in, on the shelves, not just for special order?

[Aconite]

Oh, wow! Look in your guidebooks, everybody--it's a drive-by troll!

How much do you want to bet on this really being "the one and only time" refit visits this site? What, no takers? Guess folks here are up on patterns of troll behavior.

[TracySutterer & GaryRogers]

refit,

What are you smoking? Is it time to have you medications adjusted? Is it your contention that all of the members and commentators on this board are delusional?

Your thoughts are a typical example of "Transference" - Look up that term, and your face will turn a deep shade of RED.

Argile Stox

[Sara Rachael Hope]

As it turns out this woman is a very nice lady (who just so happens to have possibly not read enough of this thread).
She e-mailed me and I responded to her as follows:
Dear...(I won't give you her name!),
Actually I didn't even know it was u when you posted and I entered my own reply to your post. Please don't be angry at me.
If you read more about what PA is (and has been) doing you may possibly think differently.
I didn't believe it (and didn't want to) at first, but I've been 'keeping up' with reading the thread for quite some time and have found much of what is said to (unfortunately) be true.
You might want to 'go back' and read the thread a little bit more...especially posts made by the moderator.
The absolutewrite boards are very reliable...most of the authors are well published and many are experts (and tend to give sound advice).
I've had to learn to be open to other ideas and information. It hasn't been easy since I was 'in awe' of PA for quite some time.
And if you want to hate me for being honest, please do so. I still admire you and what you have accomplished, and I hope you can do the same for me.
Wishing you blessings, always,
*******************************************
By the way, she's a really nice lady who happens to help a lot of people!

[Kasey Mackenzie]

If by "just fine" you mean misleading and a thinly-disguised (if that) vanity press, then sure, I can agree with you. Otherwise...let me just go over to the corner and cry myself a river because "this is the one and only time [you] will visit this site."

On second thought...I wouldn't hold my breath for that one...

[DaveKuzminski]

If PA is so fine, then why don't you have the courage to sign your name? Could it be on account of the fact that you'd then have to back up your claims with real facts?

Until then, let's hear directly from you as to your name, the title of your PA book that you claim is doing so well, and a representative sampling list of the libraries and bookstores on whose shelves you claim your book can be found. Shall we set a deadline of this time tomorrow since you should already have that information in order to make your claims? Shouldn't take more than a minute or two to post it.

[CaoPaux]

As it turns out this woman is a very nice lady (who just so happens to have possibly not read enough of this thread).
And I respect what she's trying to do with her book. If she wants to return for a substantiated discussion, we’re here.

[Aconite]

By the way, she's a really nice lady who happens to help a lot of people!
Then it's really a shame that can't be seen from the way she chose to present herself here.

Sara, I understand what you're trying to do. But if an adult storms into a public space, insults the people there, and flounces out, what makes you think it's inappropriate for people to respond in kind? There are social penalties for bad behavior, and to expect anything else is unrealistic.

[TemlynWriting]

That is total crap and this is the one and only time I will visit this site. Infact, I will highly recommend people avoid this 'absolute write' site entirely because of thier shocking content.

This is really not a fair statement at all. To discourage writers in general to avoid these boards simply because of the PA discussion is very sad, indeed. AbsoluteWrite forums have SO much more to offer, and the PA thread is simply ONE thread in THOUSANDS. All kinds of writers congregate here -- NOT just those who like/hate PublishAmerica.

I for one have absolutely nothing to do with PA or the thread. To judge an entire forum and site, as well as an entire group of people on the site, based on ONE facet is not fair at all to 90% of the people here.

If you have issues with something presented here, you can contact me or another moderator. I do hope that you won't judge the entire board by this one incident, and that you will return to see the many wonderful facets of AbsoluteWrite. Thank you.

[robeiae]

My spider senses are tingling...

Rob :)

[Birol]

Then it's really a shame that can't be seen from the way she chose to present herself here.

Sara, I understand what you're trying to do. But if an adult storms into a public space, insults the people there, and flounces out, what makes you think it's inappropriate for people to respond in kind? There are social penalties for bad behavior, and to expect anything else is unrealistic.

Because, Aconite, there are other ways to respond to insults and bad behavior than just returning them. Grace, dignity, compassion, and empathy come to mind. Don't let this degenerate into a flame war. If one side refuses to hurl blind insults and possibly pauses to consider why the other side feels the need to get angry, then the opportunity for a civilized, thoughtful discussion still exists.




I will not post it here at this time, but I have located the ISBN of the book in question, but I'm not certain where to go to check stats. Can someone provide me the link so I can satisfy my own curiosity?

[Sheryl Nantus]

we'll see if she has enough guts to put her money where her mouth is... and returns to actually deal with the consequences of her post, or if she just runs and hides under a rock; feeling superior in her troll-ness.

*shrugs*

if not, she'll figure it out next month when she gets her non-existent royalty check.

[Gravity]

So she's not a troll. She just wants to lead more people into the PA abyss. I think rather than "troll", the more correct term would be "judas goat". Gee, which is worse? A yahoo who does a drive-by slam, or a yahoo who does a drive-by slam, and encourages other to hook their wagons to a tree-stump? I know where I'd place my money.

John

[maestrowork]

Sign your name and post your ISBNs. We'll be the judge. The rest is just virtual air.

Oh, and yes, we have no problem for you to list your credentials and book stores... we have room. Feel free.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

I'm not one to condemn an entire person on the basis of a single post. However, I don't feel compelled to assume every one-post troll is actually nice person who should be handled with kid gloves. A drive-by trolling deserves no grace or empathy, to my mind.

However, if she returns to engage in discussion, I am sure many will welcome the change of behavior and will not hold the drive-by troll behavior against her. I look forward to meeting her in rational, mature, fact-filled conversation,

Sara, do encourage her to come back and discuss. She has ample opportunity to shed the bad "troll" rep and earn from the rest of the regulars the high opinion she already enjoys from you.

[maestrowork]

Because, Aconite, there are other ways to respond to insults and bad behavior than just returning them. Grace, dignity, compassion, and empathy come to mind. Don't let this degenerate into a flame war. If one side refuses to hurl blind insults and possibly pauses to consider why the other side feels the need to get angry, then the opportunity for a civilized, thoughtful discussion still exists.




I will not post it here at this time, but I have located the ISBN of the book in question, but I'm not certain where to go to check stats. Can someone provide me the link so I can satisfy my own curiosity?

You can call Ingram, I believe, to check sales stats on any ISBN carried by them... that is, unless, the book is not in Ingram...

[Aconite]

Because, Aconite, there are other ways to respond to insults and bad behavior than just returning them. Grace, dignity, compassion, and empathy come to mind.
I knew "respond in kind" wasn't the phrase I wanted just after I'd typed it. (Dang slow edits!) I agree that it's far classier and usually more productive to refuse to stoop to their level.

At the same time, I believe it's entirely appropriate to let people deal with the natural consequences of their own actions. If you're nasty to people, they aren't inclined to be nice to you. They may be nice to you anyway, but that's a matter of grace on their part, and not something you're entitled to.

You can feel compassion for someone and still hold them to appropriate standards of behavior. No one has the right to hurt others because they're hurting. Forgiveness on the part of the injured party is a separate issue.

[Shadow Otenaki]

Want to look for an ISBN? Go here.
http://www.bookfinder4u.com/ISBN-Search

paste in the ISBN and search by ISBN and see what you get.

Edit: That is, if I read that person's post right. >.>;
If you're looking for the sales percentage or something, then uhm, look elsewhere, heh. ^^;

[aka eraser]

She's far from the first, and won't be the last PA author to post thusly here. Some of our longtime members made their first posts here as PA apologists and AW attackers.

As others have noted, she's welcome to come back anytime and engage in some civil discourse.

[JennaGlatzer]

Hi refit,

I have unregistered you per your request. As far as this comment:

However, I have had NO problems getting my books in bookstores.

I have just checked 32 Borders stores at random by using the online inventory search, and none of them have your book in stock. I don't mean that to be insulting; it's just that it does, indeed, show a problem with bookstore stocking. All the people posting in the PA thread are not imagining this problem. Glad you're happy anyway.

[l.stormgaye]

I'm trying to get 50 posts so I wanted to make mention of that in this forum.

[TemlynWriting]

I'm trying to get 50 posts so I wanted to make mention of that in this forum.
If you're trying to get to 50 posts you may want to do so here in this thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8052),as this post is pretty much off-topic for this current thread. The best place to pad your post count is in the Office Party or Take It Outside forums. Hope that helps! :)

[James D. Macdonald]

You know, I just can not believe the sick attitudes and harsh language being used on this forum.

Yeah, really, it's terrible. People keep saying "scam," "twaddle," and "ought to be shut down"!

Honestly the whole lot of the PA basher line should be banned from this forum.

Bashers aren't welcome here. Folks who tell the truth are met with open arms.

They are stating untruths and half truths ...

Could you mention any specific untruths and half-truths? What's the real story?


... and actually have enough unmidigated audacity to throw insults around.

No! Say it isn't true!

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot. I'm sure you'll have a lot to talk about.

That is total crap and this is the one and only time I will visit this site. Infact, I will highly recommend people avoid this 'absolute write' site entirely because of thier shocking content.

Unfortunately, your post over at the PA boards telling folks to avoid this site has already been deleted by their moderators, so I'm told. Why do you suppose that is?


Disgusting is what it is.

Oh, I agree entirely.

I know that by disputing the comments I will be accused of "masterbating" and "chest pounding" like other defenders have been.

Dispute away! Which comments were you set to dispute? (BTW, where was the "masterbating" comment? I can't find it. Same for "chest pounding." I'm not saying they aren't here, it's just that I don't recall seeing them.)


However, I have had NO problems getting my books in bookstores.

"In" bookstores or "available in" bookstores? There's a difference, you know.

Nor in libraries.

Astounding!

In fact my first book is in too many scholastic, public and government libraries to mention here.

You beat out Jason Fodeman? He's in 132 libraries worldwide. Of the handful of other PA books (less than 10% of their titles) that are shelved in libraries, most are in one or two at most.

If you could give a representative sample of the libraries that shelve your book -- ten of them, perhaps? -- that would do nicely.

The list would just go on and on if I attempted to show each and every bookstore, library and retailer in Germany, Africa, the UK, America and Canada that stock my book.

That's really outstanding. But are you sure they stock your book? Just listing it online isn't the same thing.


I have had no problems getting review copies sent out by my publisher. I have had excellent service and support by PA.

Congratulations! Do you think you can use your influence to help out the other PA authors who aren't so luckly?

You all should be ashamed! If your book is not selling well - LOOK IN THE MIRROR FOR YOU AND ONLY YOU ARE AT FAULT!!!!


Let's see ... according to Ingram's stock check number, your book has:

3 on hand
0 on order
0 on backorder
0 sold this week
0 sold last week
0 sold this year
4 sold last year

Of course, Ingram is just a dipstick. It isn't all sales -- just most sales via bookstores.

Your Amazon rank is around 2.1 million, which isn't really very good.

To ask an author what they have made is also insulting.

So, what have you made?

Sales are entirely dependent on the marketing plan and budget of the individual author and not the publisher, store or location.

This is completely untrue.

I couldn't believe the challanging post I saw on this issue. Sick really.

Believe it.


Why don't you all grow up... or if you must act like menacing children -how about finding some unsuspecting kid in a wheelchair to pound on? Sounds like you all would enjoy something like that.

You're claiming that Meiners, Clopper, and Prather are unfortunate kids in wheelchairs? That they didn't freely choose to be scammers? That it's by unfortunate accident that they're running a vanity press that relies on false and misleading advertising and that they routinely defraud authors of their royalties?

Signed by the most disgusted author imaginable (a free-lance writer for 7 years, columnist for 5 years, author of 3 books, book reviewer and poet by the way)

Congratulations on your success! But (and I hope you forgive me for saying this) I couldn't help noticing that you didn't sign your post.

[CaoPaux]

Quote:
To ask an author what they have made is also insulting.

So, what have you made?Forgive me, but :roll:

[Nicholas S.H.J.M Woodhouse]

I would just like to say that, being a very young writer, I had no idea about PA before I saw this forum. You all saved me from that potential banana skin, so for what its worth, thank you and I hope you can keep on telling people about what PA do.

[James D. Macdonald]

Unfortunately, while Mac's solution is ingenious, it's impractical.

[NancyMehl]

A little research shows that the original poster has a few books in rather specialized libraries:

"Known public & scholastic libraries that stock XXXXX XXXX: XXXXX XXXX is currently stocked by the University of Concordia, Okanagan University College, Alberta Government Environment Library, Selkirk College and a growing number of other scholastic and regional public libraries."

The theme of the book helps it to fit into University libraries, etc. That's great - but it certainly doesn't have widespread distribution.

But...the poster's award winning poetry seems to be published in - you guessed it - Poetry.com. This tells me that the poster needs to learn a little more about publishing before blasting anyone at AbsoluteWrite.

I hope he/she will come back and open up a dialogue. "Hit and run" posting makes me feel that there really isn't any desire to do so.

Too bad.

BTW - my PA book was in over 300 libraries, so I beat out Jason. But the reason I hit so many libraries was because of a positive review in Library Journal. I seriously doubt that LJ would accept a PA book now. I approached them in early 2002 - before the truth became so widely known.

Nancy

[MacAllister]

alas.

Also, Jim had already tried it. *sigh*

[robeiae]

alas, and alackaday...

Rob :)

[Sara Rachael Hope]

Tell all the newbees on the PA board about AbsoluteWrite...of course not just the neverending PA thread! The oldies might like it even more, and there's sure to be more drama there!
Wish you could use my username and psw but I don't want to do anything illegal.
Am I mean? I don't mean to be! I hope not. I'm just trying to be truthful. Maybe 'when' to upset a Goliath (even more) would be a useful question and activity!
I'm still debating on what can be used for the rock and slingshot!:guns:
Hmmm...any ideas? Where's David? Anyone know?
Maybe private mail is necessary.:Ssh: Oops!
You might want to 'save it' or print it for it to stand up in court, although without verification of receipt, only postal mail will do for sure! And remember, things can always be returned unopened to the sender anyway, so where do we go from here?
:popcorn:

[James D. Macdonald]

7-18-2005, 09:37 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=25"]CaoPaux (showpost.php?p=274063&postcount=22822) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274063", true);
Mostly Harmless


oin Date: Feb 2005
Location: Coastal Desert
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Rumor has it that PA is selling ebooks again, via Amazon. Can anyone confirm? If yes, are the ISBNs different?

[James D. Macdonald]

7-18-2005, 09:55 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=1873"]Arkie (showpost.php?p=274085&postcount=22822) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274085", true);
One of the Locals

Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 36

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Evidently, Amazon mistakenly listed several hundreds of PA books as "digital."
The price of the book was dropped by six dollars per book. There was some excitement on the PA board for a while, until the PA monitor came on alerted board members of the mistake. The ISBN for the digital copy of the book was different from the original.

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 02:15 AM [/url] [url="member.php?u=3517"]marsbar007 (showpost.php?p=274300&postcount=22831) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274300", true);
Esteemed New Member

Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Brunswick
Posts: 9


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Well, we can always find these people connected with PA on yahoo search.

To explain to PA's investors how they are working things. Seems like they got alot of investors.
http://www.alibris.com/about/board.cfm
The more we stop them. The less they will get from Authors like our selves.

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 02:31 AM [/url] [url="member.php?u=2368"]TracySutterer & ArgileStox (showpost.php?p=274304&postcount=22832) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274304", true);
Coffee Fanatics

Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Dakota
Posts: 146

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Yes, I admit it. I am as dumb as a box of nails. On second thought, that statement is a compliment - to restate, I am as dumb as a rock. That's better.

Yesterday, there was a slight tremor which was felt across a few message boards concerning PublishAmerica selling "intellectual property" as an e-book with a different ISBN# on Amazon. I went to the Amazon site and yup, there it was, right above my trade paperback.

Well, okay. The intractable PublishAmerica contract - in a convoluted manner stated that PublishAmerica can take such an action without consulting the author. I used to get steamed about PublishAmerica's innate ability to pull rabbits out of their hat. As of late, I Post messages and ask questions of those in the "know."

Each board I Posted on (AW was down) for information concerning this event, frustrated other Posters and they also felt blindsided. Just for grins, click or paste into your browser the link below. Linda Roberts investigated PublishAmerica's current contract and came up with some interesting results concerning PublishAmerica's stand on e-books:

http://www.publishamericasucks.com/ebooks.html

PublishAmerica once again played stupid and took the fall back position, 'We had nothing to do with this, Amazon screwed up. This e-book situation affected other publishers as well.' Excuse me! Someone at Amazon decided to carry out PublishAmerica's scheme by involving other publishers property. It is a classic example of trying to implement a new marketing strategy - testing it out by using the cover of a "data entry malfunction," while covering it up and involving other publishers. What was this, a program or data entry mistake that began to run wild? Think of all the "successful marketing goofs" that the advertising agencies on Madison Avenue have employed in the past.

If everyone jumps on the bandwagon, pats them on the back for "pushing the envelope" which results in a temporary spike in sales - the marketing ploy was successful. If the goof leaves a bad taste in the public's mouth, the goof is pulled, some data entry clerk or low level advertising assistant falls on their sword and gets axed. The offending company puts out a statement and apologizes to everyone for the "error," and the matter is closed. It's a typical "Not Me" excuse and I do not buy into it.

My book in a printed trade paperback edition is priced at $24.95 + shipping and handling for 325 pages. The e-book appears on Amazon for the astounding price of $16.47 for 325 pages. Let's travel into my abstract world for a moment...

Imagine Peter Griffin from the animated series The Family Guy, decides that this is a great deal. In Peter's mind he can have the book downloaded to his computer - no muss, no fuss. Then, he decides to print out the entire book because his iPod malfunctioned, and the original download resides on his desktop or laptop. Peter loves to spend hours in the bathroom reading stuff.

He owns a common ink jet printer. After 50-75 copies the printer runs out of ink. Cost of an average ink jet cartridge - $16-$20 + tax. Three ink cartridges later and a ream of paper - the book is completely printed. Even at the low figure, the total cost of the book is - $55 including the paper it is printed on + the original investment of the e-book! $16.47 + $55 = $71.47. That amount is about three copies of the printed trade paperback, not including shipping and handling.

Okay. Let's go further out there. Suppose Peter downloads the book into his desktop/laptop computer and transfers the e-book to his iPod. For some odd reason the data becomes corrupted and or the computer malfunctions, then his iPod needs to be repaired or is lost. Poof! $16.47 fly’s out the window.

There is nothing like holding a book (no matter who prints it) in your hand. This low tech device - called a book, can be used with out batteries and is completely portable. Yes, one does need to illuminate the pages so that the words can be seen. The Sun and a lamp are good sources to fill that need.

I am a cheerleader for evolving and useful technology. However, sometimes the old way, is the best way. I guess dumb as a rock has its advantages.

Argile Stox

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[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 04:25 AM
[/url] [url="member.php?u=171"]XThe NavigatorX (showpost.php?p=274324&postcount=22833) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274324", true);
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Evidently, Amazon mistakenly listed several hundreds of PA books as "digital."
The price of the book was dropped by six dollars per book. There was some excitement on the PA board for a while, until the PA monitor came on alerted board members of the mistake. The ISBN for the digital copy of the book was different from the original.

I'm not sure if it's a mistake or not. It appears right now any book listed with Lightning Source (which includes most PoDs, many small presses, PA, etc) now has a digital download option. None of these e-books have real ISBNs. They have been assigned numbers that start with Bxxxxxxxxx, which are Amazon's ASIN numbers, or the code they assign to products without ISBNs.

Whatever this is, it wasn't initiated by PA. It seems like a new Lightning Source feature for publishers.

I went to check LS's website, but it seems to be down right now. I'll try again in the morning.

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 05:04 AM [/url] [url="member.php?u=2368"]TracySutterer & ArgileStox (showpost.php?p=274328&postcount=22834) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274328", true);
Coffee Fanatics

Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Dakota
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Hi XThe NavigatorX,

Thank you for your investigation into this e-book debacle. The idea for this new e-book listing had to have been hatched by someone. LSI - Ingram - Amazon - PublishAmerica... This new e-book marketing idea was launched without any fanfare. It just appeared out of no where.

This e-book concept falls right into PublishAmerica's game plan of e-publishing. Look at it this way, PublishAmerica offered e-books in the past, and failed. Using the principle of "Other Peoples Money" - from the hit Broadway Play "The Producers" by Mel Brooks, it would stand to reason that PublishAmerica would embrace the idea of using the resources of LSI and Ingram to experiment with this new feature and generate immediate cash. There would be no printing or shipping involved. The Keywords here is: IMMEDIATE CASH from Credit Card Purchases.

I maybe punching air here. However, something just does not add up. Please find out what you can and educate us. Thanks!

Argile Stox

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 08:11 AM [/url] [url="member.php?u=1483"]MadScientistMatt (showpost.php?p=274365&postcount=22835) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274365", true);
Agent of THE CONSPIRACY

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Posts: 457


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Jean - if it's any consolation to you, I tried ordering the book from the link you posted and found it could not actually be ordered from that link, even though it looks like it can. Maybe they have flipped some behind the scenes switch to disable ordering your book.

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 10:27 AM [/url] Sara Rachael Hope (showpost.php?p=274472&postcount=22836) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274472", true);
Esteemed New Member

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 24
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I just visited Amazon and found my book is also listed [u]now as a digital e-book (with an ISBN # I've never seen before and at a greatly discounted price).
Is this legal?
I've been under the impression PA can only sell the book as the 'actual' book I was originally sent (2 free copies of), with the correct ISBN # (that doesn't scan at cash registers and seems to be 'good for nothing' anyway).
Am I missing something here? And, do you know if this goes against what is written in the contract?
It seems to me that the contract should be null and void anyway because they call themselves "publisher" in it in the 1st place...but that's another story I guess!
Maybe I will have to call the Maryland Congressman's office soon (since I haven't heard back from them as of yet), and maybe you can too!
Your thoughts??????

Thanks!

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 10:42 AM [/url] [url="member.php?u=160"]Gravity (showpost.php?p=274485&postcount=22831) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274485", true);
Board fanatic

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My poor dead little book is there too. Weird.

[James D. Macdonald]

7-19-2005, 10:52 AM [/url] [url="member.php?u=10"]James D. Macdonald (showpost.php?p=274505&postcount=22832) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274505", true);
Your Genial Uncle
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Well, we can always find these people connected with PA on yahoo search.

In what way are those folks connected with PA?

Alibris is an online bookstore.

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 11:16 AM [/url] [url="member.php?u=3517"]marsbar007 (showpost.php?p=274543&postcount=22833) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274543", true);
Esteemed New Member

Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Brunswick
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The site is owned by the owner of PA. This site is hidden from the Authors.
http://sellers.alibris.com/

Them people on the board are investors. They sure do have a big role in PA.
Another way of getting money from Authors.
http://www.marlenethornton.com (http://www.marlenethornton.com/)

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 11:26 AM [/url] CaoPaux (showpost.php?p=274553&postcount=22834) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274553", true);
Mostly Harmless

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I just visited Amazon and found my book is also listed [u]now as a digital e-book (with an ISBN # I've never seen before and at a greatly discounted price).
Is this legal?As loath as I am to debunk a conspiracy theory, the Amazon eBook SNAFU is apparently the result of a computer misfire at Lightning Source and/or Ingram. These books do not exist, and PA had nothing to do with it: all publishers using Lightning Source have been affected. Amazon, etc., are working to straighten it out.

Read here for a good explanation of what happened. http://www.mindsightseries.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?lm=1121778912&file=/3831/5436.html

[James D. Macdonald]

7-19-2005, 11:43 AM [/url] [url="member.php?u=65"]Sheryl Nantus (showpost.php?p=274562&postcount=22835) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274562", true);
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The site is owned by the owner of PA. This site is hidden from the Authors.
http://sellers.alibris.com/

Them people on the board are investors. They sure do have a big role in PA.
Another way of getting money from Authors.
http://www.marlenethornton.com (http://www.marlenethornton.com/)

uh... got any proof?

I seriously doubt these claims have any validity... somehow I don't see anyone at PA having the ability to run a second-hand store site such as Alibris, given how efficient and professional they are.

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 12:14 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=606"]tab (showpost.php?p=274583&postcount=22836) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274583", true);
Dipsomaniac on the floor!

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
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The site is owned by the owner of PA. This site is hidden from the Authors.
http://sellers.alibris.com/

Them people on the board are investors. They sure do have a big role in PA.
Another way of getting money from Authors.
http://www.marlenethornton.com (http://www.marlenethornton.com/)

Did you bother reading the corporate information about Alibris? Alibris is not owned by the knuckleheads at PA. The CEO is one Martin Manley. Click on the these links for proof -->
http://www.alibris.com/about/management.cfm
http://www.alibris.com/about/board.cfm
http://www.alibris.com/about/advisory_council.cfm

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 12:29 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=10"]James D. Macdonald (showpost.php?p=274600&postcount=22837) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274600", true);
Your Genial Uncle
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Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,404


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The site is owned by the owner of PA. This site is hidden from the Authors.
http://sellers.alibris.com/

I'm sorry, but I'm still not seeing Willem Meiners, Larry Clopper, Miranda Prather or any members of the POD Squad as owners of, or investors in, Alibris.

Alibris, which grew out of the old InterLoc system, was founded in Emeryville, CA, in 1998. They were founded by Dick Weatherford. Their CEO is Marty Manley. They went public in 2004.

See also:
http://www.ioba.org/newsletter/alibris.html
http://www.ioba.org/newsletter/V7/alibris.html
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1280998/000104746904012083/a2132099zs-1a.htm

Their gross income in 2003 was over $45 million dollars -- ten times more than PA's income.

[James D. Macdonald]

7-19-2005, 02:13 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=3517"]marsbar007 (showpost.php?p=274721&postcount=22838) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274721", true);
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I am not sure, but I seen it somewhere. I am still looking. Then again, peoplesay so much it is hard to tell. All I know am I some mad. Publishamerica is just two men ruining Authors. I don't know how they think they can not keep up with the contract. It ,almost, seems like contracts mean nothing.

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 03:51 PM Sparhawk (http://member.php?u=1102) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274829", true);
Jenna's Cabana Boy

Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Thundera
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I just checked Amazon and my book is now available for download. Oh , hello everyone, forgive my poor manners, I hope everyone is well :hi: . What's the royalty on an E-Book going for 16.95 ?? LOL.

It's sad bordering on depressing as I watch two years of hard work slide further and further down the Amazon ranking scale. I really had hopes for that story... Bummer. Hopefully the next one wil do better.

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 04:35 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=366"]eighter (showpost.php?p=274879&postcount=22843) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274879", true);
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I need the help of a few authors here.

Please go to Amazon and order the e book download and put the charge on your credit card or provide me with proof of purchase. I will reimburse you for the chagre but get the book downloaded. Keep it. Let me know at eighter37@megagate.com

I am not getting paid so don't think for a sec that I want to sell any books. This is for legal reasons only. I do not have a contract and I have never been paid.

Please be advised that you will be asked by an attorney to provide this proof and provide testimony for court.

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 04:39 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=10"]James D. Macdonald (showpost.php?p=274883&postcount=22844) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274883", true);
Your Genial Uncle
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Here's the link to the digital edition of Molly's book at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000A9XJ5Y/

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 04:40 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=686"]Patricia (showpost.php?p=274884&postcount=22845) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274884", true);
Pursuing A Dream. . .

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 698
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My book went from $19.95 to $16.95 digital. That is so laughable! Sounds like a PA thingy to me. I hope it's a mistake, and will be corrected. However, it seems strange to me that ONLY PA books were involved and that makes me suspect. I don't expect great sales revenue....duh who would pay $16.95 for a digital download?

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 05:10 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=37"]AnneMarble (showpost.php?p=274914&postcount=22846) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274914", true);
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My book went from $19.95 to $16.95 digital. That is so laughable! Sounds like a PA thingy to me. I hope it's a mistake, and will be corrected. However, it seems strange to me that ONLY PA books were involved and that makes me suspect.
And isn't this the same PA that cast aspersions on e-book authors on their infamous AuthorsMarket.net website? (Of course, no doubt, the real reasons for that were because 1) Dave K. has e-books in print and 2) they can't make as much money selling e-books to authors.

I don't expect great sales revenue....duh who would pay $16.95 for a digital download?
I've seen e-books that price from major publishers, but it's usually for the latest hardcover. Supposedly, they price them that high because they're afraid that a cheap e-book edition would compete with the sales of the hardcover. Even staunch e-book fans tend to avoid buying these. Luckily, some e-book distributors (such as Fictionwise) try to discount some of these titles. (And we know that PA thinks discount is a four-letter word.)

And a PA e-book is another matter entirely. I wouldn't pay $16.95 for an ebook from an unknown author from PA, just as I wouldn't pay that for an e-book from a small indie e-book publishers or e-book vanity publisher, because I have no guarantee of quality. Also, considering the skill of PA's editors, I'm sure that their e-books would have problems with conversion of special characters, line breaks, spacing, etc., just like e-books I've purchased from some small e-publishers. Ugh, just the thought of what they'd end up creating... The blemish on the eyes. The horror, the horror. Eww.

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 05:51 PM [/url] CaoPaux (showpost.php?p=274952&postcount=22834) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274952", true);
Mostly Harmless

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*cough*

There are no ebooks.

It's a database problem at Amazon.

PA has [u]NOTHING to do with it.

Read here: http://www.mindsightseries.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?lm=1121806746&file=/3831/5436.html

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 06:00 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=37"]AnneMarble (showpost.php?p=274962&postcount=22835) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274962", true);
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The site is owned by the owner of PA. This site is hidden from the Authors.
http://sellers.alibris.com/
I think some people might have seen the name "alibris" and confused it with "xlibris," which is a print on demand company. However, xlibris is not affiliated with PA either.

There have been cases of people who thought something was up because used book dealers were offering copies of PA books for sale on Amazon, eBay, etc. But in most cases, they were simply selling books they had acquired or listing what was available for order based on ISBN numbers.

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 06:16 PM [/url] Patricia (showpost.php?p=274981&postcount=22836) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274981", true);
Pursuing A Dream. . .

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 697
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*cough*

There are no ebooks.

It's a database problem at Amazon.

PA has [u]NOTHING to do with it.

Read here: http://www.mindsightseries.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?lm=1121806746&file=/3831/5436.html

I read both yours and the mindsight post already Cao. I will remain skeptic until the matter is totally resolved. My trust factor is very low when it comes to PA and not much higher with Amazon. As I said, I want it to be a "glitch."

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 06:24 PM #22837 (showpost.php?p=274994&postcount=22837) AnnaWhite (member.php?u=2299) vbmenu_register("postmenu_274994", true);
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I need the help of a few authors here.

Please go to Amazon and order the e book download and put the charge on your credit card or provide me with proof of purchase. I will reimburse you for the chagre but get the book downloaded. Keep it. Let me know at eighter37@megagate.com

I'm sorry, Molly, I tried to order your e-book, but apparently only people in the US can do so. Here's the message I got:

*** We're sorry. We're unable to sell e-books from Amazon.com to customers in the European Union. You can remove these items from your order by clicking Delete above. Please note that most European Union customers may purchase e-books from our international sites. Visit www.amazon.co.uk/e-books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/e-books) or www.amazon.de/e-books (http://www.amazon.de/e-books) for more details. ***

The book is not available in e-book form from www.amazon.co.uk (http://www.amazon.co.uk/)

I hope a few US people will be able to help. It must be so frustrating to have this kind of thing happen even after your contract has been terminated!

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 06:44 PM #22838 (http://showpost.php?p=275009&postcount=22838) eighter (http://member.php?u=366) vbmenu_register("postmenu_275009", true);
Super Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 50
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You think that PA doesn't read this board. I have a copy of "Available for immediate download" and will post it here if anyone doesn't believe it.

After my post, it changed within 5 minutes to "NOT AVAILABLE".

WEll, Publish America read this. I am going to sue the living hell out of you if my book is not removed from the internet in all shapes, forms and fashion in the next 5 minutes. That's a promise.

I am not going to sue for just selling my book illegally and not paying me but for the damage you hve done to my health.

A mistake when an new ISBN was given? Seems a bit strange.


Molly Brent

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 06:52 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=2368"]TracySutterer & ArgileStox (showpost.php?p=275023&postcount=22839) vbmenu_register("postmenu_275023", true);
Coffee Fanatics

Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Dakota
Posts: 144
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Other Editions List Price Price Other Offers Digital (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000A9DN1E/ref=lpr_g_1/002-8289018-1752849?v=glance&s=books) $24.95 $16.47 Okay, I do not want to beat a dead horse over this Amazon e-book entry mistake. Despite the assurances from well respected members of the publishing community on this board and other boards, when I see the above information disappear from my book's listing on Amazon - I will become a believer.

Why have I taken such a rigid and stubborn stance on this issue? It has been at least 48 hours or more since this error presented itself.

Argile Stox

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 07:06 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=1391"]changling (showpost.php?p=275038&postcount=22840) vbmenu_register("postmenu_275038", true);
YES, I WILL BITE YOU.

Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: location,location.
Posts: 379
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....duh who would pay $16.95 for a digital download

Hey, mine is there. Great. I'll pay the price for my own. Then, since P.A. books are so non-discript and don't sell to bookstores,only authors, I'll have the e-file and start printing my own copies of the book. How will they ever know if they are the copies that I bought or one I had printed . Ha Ha.

Think about it. I can have my book printed and sell it til the cows come home, and P.A. will never know it. How do they know if it was one I bought or printed myself. What a boon, I don't have to purchase anymore of my books and now have a lifetime supply. Catch me if you can. It will be a carbon copy. Yes, I have been drinking beer.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000A9GXKW/ref=ed_oe_d/002-1032600-7572804?v=glance

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 07:22 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=1391"]changling (showpost.php?p=275059&postcount=22841) vbmenu_register("postmenu_275059", true);
YES, I WILL BITE YOU.

Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: location,location.
Posts: 379
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okay, bought and paid for.

Due 7-19-05

Shipping Method: Email Subtotal of Items: $27.14Shipping & Handling: $0.00 ------Total for this Order: $27.14

Shipping estimate for these items: July 19, 2005 https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/product-icons/small-blue/downloadable_text_display_on_website-blue-icon.gif 1"The Scent of Magnolias and Men"
K., A. Schneider; Digital; $13.57

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/product-icons/small-blue/downloadable_text_display_on_website-blue-icon.gif 1"There Ain't Enough Front Porches"
Molly Marx Brent; Digital; $13.57

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 07:41 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=151"]ByGrace (showpost.php?p=275072&postcount=22842) vbmenu_register("postmenu_275072", true);
Super Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
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Here's an email I received this afternoon from Amazon.

Thank you for writing back to Amazon.com regarding these ebook
listings.

We recently received incorrect data from Ingram, Amazon.com's sole
supplier of ebooks which may concern the items mentioned below. Due
to a technical glitch, a number of false ebook records were added to
the Amazon.com site temporarily. However, these listings are now
in the process of being removed, and will no longer appear on our
site within the next 2-3 days. Please accept our apologies for any
inconvenience you may have experienced due to this error.

Thank you for your interest in Amazon.com.


Best regards,

Tony S
Book Catalog Department
Amazon.com, Inc.
http://www.amazon.com/publishers

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 07:45 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=366"]eighter (showpost.php?p=275077&postcount=22843) vbmenu_register("postmenu_275077", true);
Super Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 50
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----------------------

Here is the e mail I just receivedhttps://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/common/right-topnav-default.gif Thanks for your order, Molly Marx Brent!

Want to track your order status?
Learn how with our animated demo! (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/account-access-login/002-5139264-1361632#demo-wms)

Did you know you can view and edit your orders online, 24 hours a day? Click Your Account (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/account-access-login/002-5139264-1361632) to:


Access "Where's My Stuff?" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/flex-sign-in/002-5139264-1361632?%5Fencoding=UTF8&ss-order-filter=wheres-my-stuff&response=order-history-filtered&method=POST&opt=ab&return-url=order-history-filtered&page=help%2Fya-sign-in-secure.html)
Combine orders (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/flex-sign-in/002-5139264-1361632?%5Fencoding=UTF8&ss-order-filter=wheres-my-stuff&response=order-history-filtered&method=POST&opt=ab&return-url=order-history-filtered&page=help%2Fya-sign-in-secure.html)
Change payment method (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/flex-sign-in/002-5139264-1361632?%5Fencoding=UTF8&ss-order-filter=wheres-my-stuff&response=order-history-filtered&method=POST&opt=ab&return-url=order-history-filtered&page=help%2Fya-sign-in-secure.html)
Change shipping address (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/flex-sign-in/002-5139264-1361632?%5Fencoding=UTF8&ss-order-filter=wheres-my-stuff&response=order-history-filtered&method=POST&opt=ab&return-url=order-history-filtered&page=help%2Fya-sign-in-secure.html)
Cancel unshipped items (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/flex-sign-in/ref=cs_ae_can2/002-5139264-1361632?%5Fencoding=UTF8&ss-order-filter=wheres-my-stuff&response=order-history-filtered&method=POST&opt=ab&return-url=order-history-filtered&page=help%2Fya-sign-in-secure.html)
Change gift messaging (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/flex-sign-in/ref=cs_ae_ge/002-5139264-1361632?%5Fencoding=UTF8&ss-order-filter=wheres-my-stuff&response=order-history-filtered&method=POST&opt=ab&return-url=order-history-filtered&edit-gift=y&page=help%2Fya-sign-in-secure.html)
Do much more... (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/account-access-login/002-5139264-1361632)
Purchasing Information: E-mail Address: eighter37@megagate.com Billing Address:
Molly Brent
1027 Parker Drive
Laurel, MS 39440
United States
Shipping Address:
eighter37@megagate.com
Order Grand Total: $13.57 Earn 3% rewards on your Amazon.com purchases with the Amazon Visa Card. Learn More (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/visa/marketing/-/oce/P/NO/002-5139264-1361632)Order Summary: Shipping Details Order #: 002-2334522-3471247 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/display-order-status/002-5139264-1361632?%5Fencoding=UTF8&order%5Fid=002-2334522-3471247) Shipping Method: Email Subtotal of Items: $13.57Shipping & Handling: $0.00 ------Total for this Order: $13.57

Shipping estimate for these items: July 19, 2005 https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/product-icons/small-blue/downloadable_text_display_on_website-blue-icon.gif 1"There Ain't Enough Front Porches"
Molly Marx Brent; Digital; $13.57



You can review your orders in Your Account (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/account-access-login/ref=cs-ae-yr/002-5139264-1361632). If you've explored the links on that page but still have a question, please visit our online Help Department (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/508510/002-5139264-1361632).

Please note: This e-mail message was sent from a notification-only address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply to this message.

Thanks again for shopping with us.

Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/gp/homepage.html/002-5139264-1361632)
Earth's Biggest Selection

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/common/icons/icon-unsubscribe.gif Prefer not to receive HTML mail? Click her (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/flex-sign-in/002-5139264-1361632?%5Fencoding=UTF8&response=communication-preferences&method=GET&opt=a&return-url=communication-preferences&page=help%2Fya-sign-in-secure.html)

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 07:56 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=1391"]changling (showpost.php?p=275086&postcount=22844) vbmenu_register("postmenu_275086", true);
YES, I WILL BITE YOU.

Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: location,location.
Posts: 379

-----------------------

I recieved another e-mail saying the books were in my e-locker. I opened the door, and it was empty.

Now comes the fun part. Getting the money back and getting to complain about it.

[James D. Macdonald]

07-19-2005, 08:08 PM [/url] [url="member.php?u=366"]eighter (showpost.php?p=275092&postcount=22845) vbmenu_register("postmenu_275092", true);
Super Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 50

------------------


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If you have a charge on your credit card for material that you do not receive, notify your credit card company and refuse to pay it and they will handle it.

I just received a confirmation of my order but nothing else yet.

I do not have a contract with Publish America. Ingram and PA advise that my book has been removed from their database.

Molly

[allenparker]

From time to time, these types of messages come up. I usually go on about my business and forget they exist. Today, suffering with a cold, having pulled my back out, and spending time driving my son back and forth to film camp, I am in dire need to vent. Sorry.

First and foremost, most PA authors could care less about this discussion. Most don't even know the discussion exists.

There are definitely people who are, in general, happy with PA. There are definitely people who are not happy with PA.

Regardless of this situation, AW is not the Neverending thread. There is so much stuff here that is valuable to all writers.

Now, for the reality.

I am posting under my real name. I have not made it a secret what the titles of my books are. I note that none of the books are best sellers, they are not in the hunt for a Pulitzer Prize, and I have not been called to Hollywood to make my book a movie.

In the past, I have been stocked in several stores local to my area. At present, I only know of one that is still stocking the book. I am stocked at several online bookstores in my niche. (I am not talking about "available", but actually purchased and sitting on shelves eady to ship.) Last I checked, there were on-line order places still offering the books, as well.

I have not been turned down for a review copy request. As can be verified, I even asked that a copy of my second book be sent to a southern columnist who certainly could be considered not on PA's favorites list, and they honored it. The key to getting review copies sent is to do your homework, knwo what the value of them sending a book to the reviewer will be, and making this clear to AST.

On the occasions where PA and I disagree, I try to work with the situation in a nice manner. I have never received a "tone" letter.

As an aside, on my last visit to PA's office, I listened to one side of a coversation in AST while waiting for someone. As the conversation continued, it became painfully obvious that the young AST lady was being screamed at by the caller. She had done nothing to deserve the treatment she was receiving.

Being in a job where I receive most of the complaints, I know what it is like to deal with such people. It is hard to just stand there and let a person vent their frustrations.

At the ripe old age of 45, I am probably better equipped to handle these types of calls than a younger person with less experience. Neither side wins in those scenarios, but learning to handle those cases is more a skill learned with experience..

Finally, as I exit the soap box, please let me say that I have never experienced any hostility from the people here at AW. Nor have I experienced any hostility from people on the PA boards for coming here.

I readily recommend AW to writers and to people interested in learning more about the craft. I hope that the people on this thread will not take offense if I do not recommend the NEPAT to others. I just see more benefit in the other forums.

Simply my own thoughts from the palatial futon.... Allen "then why do you come here, you idiot" Parker.

[Birol]

That's a vent, Allen? Seemed like a well-thought out post to me.

[special needs]

The poor girl thinks getting an award from www.poetry.com (http://www.poetry.com/) is an accomplishment. I must offer her my utmost sympathy for her ignorance. And how long before she requests to be removed from Writers Weekly as well?

My reply to her post on Writers Weekly:

This doesn't appear to be the best place to post that, especially since a vast amount of Writers Weekly members are also Absolute Write members. Absolute Write is a great forum for writers, just like this one, and none of us are going to start avoiding it.

Like someone else said, the "bashers" are stating facts. Publish America isn't a legit. publisher, any way you look at it. They have done an excellent job decieving you. You will only realize the truth when the only people buying your books are family members, and your books are put up for sale at 3 times the normal price.

Anybody is free to dislike Absolute Write, but because they state the truth about PA isn't a good reason. Do you dislike Writers Weekly because when the Whispers And Warnings board was still open, there will several posts about PA?

If you were treated badly at Absolute Write, I feel sorry for you, but no one is going to start avoiding it because a few people don't like it.

A thread about PA in Writers Weekly
http://forums.writersweekly.com/viewtopic.php?t=2729 (http://forums.writersweekly.com/viewtopic.php?t=2729)


And one more thing: I do suggest that you return to Absolute Write and give them the information they're requesting from you-- they believe in facts there.

[astonwest]

As an aside, on my last visit to PA's office, I listened to one side of a coversation in AST while waiting for someone. As the conversation continued, it became painfully obvious that the young AST lady was being screamed at by the caller. She had done nothing to deserve the treatment she was receiving.

I imagine if I was to try and visit the PA offices, I would be escorted out of the building by the police, no matter how calm I was...

[NancyMehl]

Allen,

Although I appreciate your post, it reminds me of the blind men who each touched one part of an elephant. You may have the tail in your hand, but there is much more the beast than just your experience.

Unless you think all the writers who have posted on the NEPAT are just making things up - you must realize that PA has mistreated a large number of people. Your experiences don't wipe that away.

We are all allowed to share our stories - and warn others of the potential for extreme disappointment.

If you're happy with your experience - good for you. That doesn't negate the unhappiness of other PA authors.

Nancy

[Medievalist]

You know, I just can not believe the sick attitudes and harsh language being used on this forum. Honestly the whole lot of the PA basher line should be banned from this forum. They are stating untruths and half truths and actually have enough unmidigated audacity to throw insults around.

I wasn't going to respond, since I could tell you don't have a clue about professional consumer publishing.

Then I read your post about AW on another forum.

First of all, if you're going to cast aspersions on the professionalism of other people, you need to master the basics of English grammar and spelling; you've got at least six basic English errors in your post--and no, I'm not actually looking--these are so obvious that they suggest you're not a professional writer. Your posts on the other forum show similar--and in fact patterned--habitual errors.

Secondly, AW has a lot of other forums besides the NEPAT--you might pay particular attention to the non-fiction forum.

Thirdly, you seem to have absolutely no understanding of what a real publisher does. If you'd taken your book to a real publisher, it would have been edited--at no charge to you.

It would have been proofread--at no charge to you.

It would have a professionally designed and printed cover. Through no fault of yours, your cover, is, well amateur is the most polite way I can describe it. The colors weren't correctly adjusted for the printer, and the letters bleed into the background. It clearly isn't the work of a professional designer, or even someone with any understanding of color printing. It was also printed on the wrong kind of cover stock, with the cheapest sealant. The cover will curl, and then, the spine will crack because of the kind of glue they used. It's a cover that says "go away," rather than entices the reader to pick it up.

Your book would have been typeset. It hasn't been. It makes it both hard to read and more expensive than it should be--in addition to the five dollar surcharge PublishAmerica routinely adds to the price of similar trade paperbacks.

You don't have LOC CIP data, something a consumer or academic publisher provides automatically, because it helps sell books. No CIP means most academic libraries, and many public libraries, won't order your book, since they must order it by hand, track its shipment and processing by hand, and catalog by hand. That's a lot of human time, too much time, and too expensive, for most libraries.

I notice that it hasn't been reviewed in the standard publications and research journals and newsletters I'd expect to see it in (Yes. I searched. I then checked with some magazine editors I work for.) That's because, unlike a real publisher, PublishAmerica doesn't really market its books, because they don't really want to sell to the general public. PublishAmerica wants to sell to the author, they don't care about consumers.

It isn't the authors' job to market their books--it's their job to write more books, and their publisher's job to sell them. Your book very well could have been picked up by a genuine publisher--like Rodale Press. They would have paid you an advance, probably in the low thousands, which is standard for them, and if the book sold out, which their books generally do, you'd be getting royalties. That's not going to happen, ever, with PublishAmerica.

A real publisher would have placed your book in their catalogs, at least two a year, so their sales force could sell to book stores and distribution channels. They would have advertised a bit, and placed review copies in the hands of reviewers at appropriate magazines, academic journals, and newsletters. Publishers do marketing--they have staff, contacts, and a sales force to talk to book sellers.

The best selling all time sales record at PublishAmerica doesn't amount to a press run for even a small press. Why? Because PublishAmerica knows they can't sell the books they publish. They charge too much for their books, they don't take returns, the books are poorly produced--and it's pretty well known that there's no real quality control in the PublishAmerica acquisition process; they'll take anything, good or bad. So from the point of view of a book seller, your book is probably not going to sell, and if the publisher doesn't believe in it enough to take returns, like every other publisher, why should the book store?

Your book never had a real chance.

[SeanDSchaffer]

You know, I just can not believe the sick attitudes and harsh language being used on this forum. Honestly the whole lot of the PA basher line should be banned from this forum. They are stating untruths and half truths and actually have enough unmidigated audacity to throw insults around.

That is total crap and this is the one and only time I will visit this site. Infact, I will highly recommend people avoid this 'absolute write' site entirely because of thier shocking content.

....Snipped....

I know that by disputing the comments I will be accused of "masterbating" and "chest pounding" like other defenders have been.

....Snipped....

I couldn't believe the challanging post I saw on this issue. Sick really.

....Snipped....




Forgive me if I seem to be a bit of a jerk, but a free-lance writer for 7 years, columnist for 5 years, author of 3 books, book reviewer and poet by the way, who does not know how to spell the words unmitigated, in fact, masturbating, and challenging?

[Banned-Aide]

Refit,
It takes some a little longer than others to figure this out. I'm sure you will "get it" at some point. Until then, please don't throw rocks at the people who have been at this much longer than you. We are only trying to warn others before they hand over their life's work to a company that will give it no respect, no promotion, no editing, and no royalties.

BA

[Gravity]

We'll never see "refit" here again. She threw her rocks and ran. Let her go. Because she'll find out the truth, soon enough.

[maestrowork]

Sadly, it may take her seven years.

[book_maven]

Soon after her book was released, I considered writing and asking for a review copy of her book. Based on her description and its focus, I thought it might be worth considering. But my first (online) look at that cover and I was turned off immediately. I didn't ask.

[Medievalist]

Sadly, it may take her seven years.

That's the part that makes me crazy--her book has enormous potential, with a real publisher, and some TLC, but it's just going to languish at PA. I bet she never approached one of the logical publishers for her book.

[allenparker]

Just because I have a different experience doesn't mean the experience is not correct or not typical.

Many of the x-PA authors posting here know who I am. I have respect for their positions and supported them in their decisions. I have supported AW as well.


I don't recommend the threads that I see as not useful to people. I would not necessarily recommend the greeting card threads to a novelist. I would not recommend the erotica thread to my mother. Aw is much more than one little thread. The experience at PA is more than even a few hundred authors. It is not the sum total of H.B's sayings either.

All I offered is my experience. I am one person. Yours may differ. Kevin's may differ. Rita's is certainly different.

I still stand by my statement that the best parts of AW are the rest of the site. NEPAT is a good diversion from the rest.

Do I believe that people have been hurt on both sides of this fence, you betcha! Do I think that the people who suffered the most are the authors? maybe. Do I think that I can offer some help to the people being hurt?

I did. I laid out for those here how I work with the people at PA. Maybe it will help them.

I especially like the elephant analogy to this situation. As the end goes, "when one stands back far enough to reflect on one's own image in the water, the elaphant becomes more clear."

Stepping back a good way from the elephant, I was able to come over here to find the treasures.

I offer this not as an argument, but to remind everyone that there is at least two sides to this issue.

Just a thought... Allen

[Gravity]

PA is evil. Period. They are a duplicitous, lying sack of snakes. Period.

Anyone who uses them as their printer, unless a) they want a cookbook or family memorabilia tome to pass on to their grandkids, or b) writes nonfiction and already has a built-in platform, is going to be terribly disheartened.

A humble opinion, but mine own.

John

[maestrowork]

a) they want a cookbook or family memorabilia tome to pass on to their grandkids, or b) writes nonfiction and already has a built-in platform

Even then, you're better off with a printer like Lulu or Cafe Press.

[Stuffedtoy]

I will try to keep this short... :Hammer:

Recently I joined a forum that went beyond the PA boards (where censorship is abound) to communicate with other PA authors. Hoping it would be a place to expel the truth.That did not happen! Now please understand, I am thankful that I have 2 books in print, that probably would have molded in my closet if not for PA- and it does give me the opportunity to sell some of them for a small profit, and get a few people who are interested in ordering them on their own. (Mid Fla Walden’s bookstore) for one. But I am the kind of person who likes to tell it like it is... until I learn differently.
The problem is this: There are a few diehard PA supporters. Most of them, I assume, are one book- writers. I believe in support for one another, but some of that back patting goes over the edge. It's not so much the publisher that most PA authors feel is being "bashed" but the trash can in which their books are being placed into. I saw where a post said "have you been published- not by PA"... what that basically says is that if PA publishes your book; you're not an author. That really isn't fair. As one person said on those boards, and I can attest to myself, some of the PA authors are good writers, while others... well... (Personally I think I fit in between. But I am my worst critic)

The war will never stop. Basically because of the 2000 plus authors who PA publishes, and unfortunately, some people will never move beyond that.

PA is the home for unpublished authors. A lot of them have sent their books elsewhere only to meet with rejection, and I believe from reading some of these books, that a number of them have been unjustly judged.

Also, for the most part... PA authors are on their own. If you sit and do nothing, that's what you get back. Being on both sides of the fence is a hard place to be. My books look nice, too high priced for the general public and the truth is that a non-return policy does not help it get stocked. Some people are getting them into the stores, but most are relying on sales from books they buy themselves. The bottom of the truth.

I have talked with some authors who have gone the other route- and self published, and this is really no better, only they have to pay for the printing, though maybe their books are cheaper priced.

Really, you can warn people until you turn blue in the face. I believe that most everyone would choose to have their books published by a mainstream publisher, but often that's not possible. Maybe PA authors are not justifiably published in accordance to others, but it's all in black and white. I know, I read the contract.

To add a happy note to this glum post...

We are posting books in our on line bookstore... If you have one you'd like to list, and have available copies to sell (or a place where they can be ordered direct) feel free to sign on. We have had a LOT of traffic going through that site lately, and a lot of attention has been given to the bookstore.

http://heavenlytrinkets.net (http://heavenlytrinkets.net/)

Sign up in the author’s forum. Or you can e-mail me at BLUFX1@aol.com (BLUFX1@aol.com)

for info.