No fee E-publications

[WriterWannaBe]

Have any of you tried these? A few have good reps.

I have a romance ms. completed (402 pages, double spaced) and am currently waiting for a professional critique and editing. I'm trying traditional first, but I've been lucky enough to talk to a few published authors in the romance genre, and my hired help is schooled in the business. It's just very hard to break in. You can be turned down, even with a good read, if you don't follow the right rules, and very few new authors are hired by traditional publishing houses. The odds are that none of us will get pubilshed this way.

I refuse to give up as I want readers beyond family and friends and e-pub sounds next best. I'm not talking about places to post your ms. for a fee. I'm talking about those that you have to submit to and be accepted. I've e-mailed a few authors of romance e-pub sites and received their input. Nobody is becoming rich, but so far all are happy and selling.

I wonder if any of you are considering any options beyond traditional, since it is so hard to become published that way. I'm looking for alternatives that are not vanity press.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'd like to say that the snobbery against anything except traditional is, imo, silly. There's crap out there that is published as well as e-published or POD'd. Sometimes I'm shocked at how bad some traditionally published books are.

The romance genre is the easiest to break into, which is partly why I tried it (I also like romance). Any other genre is nearly impossible, unless it's a "how to" book.

Most of us will eventually need to think outside the box or give up. I won't give up.

[veinglory]

I think that you overstate the difficulty of getting a traditional publisher--although it may be wise to research publisher requirements before writing, and to consider medium and smaller print publishers.

But in terms of electronic publishers, sales with some epublishers in some romance genres are very respectable and many of them go to print with popular books. What genre romance is it? Erotic does best in e-book form but I also see quite a lot of non-erotic alternative, BBW, paranormal and inter-racial.

[DamaNegra]

DaveKuzminksy (sorry if I mispelled that) has two (I think) published e-books and, by what I hear, he's doing well on it. You could ask him.

[loquax]

There's crap out there that is published as well as e-published or POD'd. Sometimes I'm shocked at how bad some traditionally published books are.If anything, this is a good sign about your chances of being published traditionally.

[veinglory]

DaveKuzminksy (sorry if I mispelled that) has two (I think) published e-books and, by what I hear, he's doing well on it. You could ask him.

I have a half dozen myself ;)

[DamaNegra]

I have a half dozen myself ;)

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/emoteDisappear.gifsorry, I forgot about that (the link to your e-book is in your signature, right?).

So, what have been your experiences in e-publishing? I'm also considering that as a way of publishing my work, but I would like to know about sales and stuff like that.

[veinglory]

You have to research the epublishers carefully, some sell pretty well (maybe 500 or more copies per book per year) others struggle to sell a dozen. It's hard to tell from webpages, ask authors privately.

Print typically sells better. If you have a full novel I suggest trying print first.

[veinglory]

p.s. if you are selling well over 500 copies of your ebooks anywhere other than Ellora's cave please PM me and tell me where ! :)

[L.Jones]

If you are serious about being pubbed in Romance, you really need to think about joing RWA. (rwanational.org)

If you already belong, consider getting to the national conference.

If you already are planning on that -- attend some workshops. I know it's more fun not to, so if you don't want to do that, buy the 'tapes' of the workshops so you have the most current info.


annie
Luanne Jones
Heathen Girls (Mira, available now)

[veinglory]

I have heard mixed reports about RWA, even from Americans, but some people have found them immensely helpful. Not so much if you do choose to go with epublishing which is not an area they emphasise.

If you are not American it is worth looking to your local RW to see what they offer.

[Mike Coombes]

It's just very hard to break in. You can be turned down, even with a good read, if you don't follow the right rules, and very few new authors are hired by traditional publishing houses. The odds are that none of us will get pubilshed this way.

This is whining. These are the tired excuses of the unpublished and potentially unpublishable. Harsh? Maybe, but doesn't stop it being true.

"It's just very hard to break in."

What do you expect? A red carpet? If it was easy, every bozo who'd resorted to PA would have a deal with a major instead.

"You can be turned down, even with a good read, if you don't follow the right rules"

So follow the rules. Duh. It's pretty fundamental stuff, it's not like 'the rules' are some kind of secret that nobody will share with you.

"very few new authors are hired by traditional publishing houses"

Total bull. Major houses sign new authors every day. They all need fresh blood, and they all want the next big thing.

If you don't get published, you don't get published. Make your decisions and move on, but don't do the self-pitying whine that the system is against you. It's the same system everyone else has to work with.

[(grasshopper)]

In last night's chat with Victoria Strauss, she said something I had never thought of before.

She said something to the effect that if you write a novel that is marketable, you're not competing against all the other hundreds or thousands of manuscripts out there, you're only competing against the small fraction of them that are also marketable.

What a wonderfully encouraging thought.

[WriterWannaBe]

Anyone who thinks it's anything other than a real crapshoot to become published traditionally for a novel is not in touch with authors.

To answer questions: I have a contemporary, but it's a bit different than the usual, although I used the normal romance formula. Yes, I've checked the guidelines for all the traditional publishers. Yes, I've joined the RWA (invaluable). It's still hard to get published. VERY hard. Never delude yourself.

I've e-mailed a few contemp. romance e-pub authors and so far the few who answered are very happy. I've checked which e-pubs have a good/bad rep. Some are not curretnly accepting submissions, which is fine. I want my ms. error-free, and I'm paying to have it done. Once I've written it over again, and maybe again and again, I'm good to go and at least I won't make the slushpile because of a misspelling. The slushpile won't get ME without a fight...muhahahahaha. In all honesty, I've heard ms. are rejected because of poor grammar, misspellings, etc. I'm not sending my ms. anywhere until it's perfect that way.

[veinglory]

Anyone who thinks it's anything other than a real crapshoot to become published traditionally for a novel is not in touch with authors.
.

This is all my rampant opinion as an active epublished romance writer:

I suggest you pull back from that attitude. There are a lot of very experienced authors and editors here who are very, very in touch with reality--getting published is hard but those with talent and determination get there in the end. If you want to benefit from the experience of the writers here--including romance writers published with big houses, don't tell them the state of publishing today.

Yes, being e-published is nice, but if you think your manuscript is suitable for print publishing by a major press, do that--it's better. It's like deciding whether to sell a photo as a print in an art gallery or for stock. Both are fine business models but the strategies are totally different.

If you are planning to epublish (with the associated smaller profits per book) to make money you need to cut costs, write in bulk and pick good publishers. A standard charge for a professional editor is about the same as the profit the book is likely to make with a respectable mid-level sweet romance epublisher.

Finally, when checking on epublishers ask the authors specifically ask what their sales are. Writers can be happy, and epublishers respectable with sales that will not even cover your costs.

[WriterWannaBe]

I have asked. Making money isn't that important to me. And I do have a sense of reality about traditional publishing. Often, even if the editor likes your book, it's unsuitable due to what is selling at the time (something you can't predict year-to-year as you write), a publishing house afraid to chance a new author, a romance that isn't 100% in sync with the category (Harlequin, for example), etc. There are more reasons not to become published than to be published. I know people who have tried for years to become published, and write well, yet have turned to e-pub and POD (I'd rather do e-pub). Our dream is traditional publishing, but it won't happen to all of us or most of us. It's not unlike the great athlete who wants desperately to play professional sports and is talented. Only a very few select players are chosen. Certainly many with vast talent are passed up for various reasons. Very few make it. That's why I'm curious about alternatives, and very happy that, in 2005, there ARE alternatives. Unless your name is Stephen King (strangely, an author I don't like), there's no guarantee of publication. Even after an author is published, there is no guarantee the publishing house will keep him/her. They have to keep topping their sales. There is a very good site for Avon authors, and I go there every day. They chat with the peons (unpublished) on Monday nights and anyone interested in any sort of publishing can ask questions and learn a lot talking to them. They are certainly forthright.

A lot of luck is involved with getting published too. It's not easy. This is not a case where true talent will necessarily win out. Anyone with experience with alternative publication is somebody I want to listen to. I'm already talking to published authors on a few sites, but even they realize that they are the lucky ones.

[pepperlandgirl]

, a publishing house afraid to chance a new author, a romance that isn't 100% in sync with the category (Harlequin, for example),

Well, first, publishing houses aren't afraid to take a chance on new authors, because old authors die. Or retire. Or never write another publishable book. They want books that'll sell. Most new writers can't produce books that'll sell immediately, so they assume it's the publishing house that's the problem.

Second, have you looked at the eharelquin site? They have about a dozen or more lines. One of them might be right for you. And every single person who publishes with Harlequin was a first-time author at one point or another.

Now, I have about...five novels, four novellas, and a few short stories, all epublished. I don't regret that at all. I've had a great time working with my editors, my publishers are great, and it's been a wonderful learning experience. But I know the only way to become a good writer is to finish one novel, set it aside, and write a new, better novel. Then set it aside, and write a new, better novel, and on and on. The novel you have right this moment may not be for the traditional houses, and it may fit well with an epublisher due to content/subject matter/ etc, but you shouldn't treat epublishing as either a dumping ground or a final destination.

[DamaNegra]

A lot of luck is involved with getting published too. It's not easy. This is not a case where true talent will necessarily win out. Anyone with experience with alternative publication is somebody I want to listen to. I'm already talking to published authors on a few sites, but even they realize that they are the lucky ones.

Talent, knowledge of the writing craft and determination are the key factors in getting published. I do not believe in 'luck', I believe every persons creates his or her luck and that things happen for a reason.

You seem to be overly pessimistic about the publishing industry. How many times have you tried placing your novel with a commercial publisher? How many rejections have you gotten already that has made you completely give up on commercial publishing?

[Jamesaritchie]

Have any of you tried these? A few have good reps.

I have a romance ms. completed (402 pages, double spaced) and am currently waiting for a professional critique and editing. I'm trying traditional first, but I've been lucky enough to talk to a few published authors in the romance genre, and my hired help is schooled in the business. It's just very hard to break in. You can be turned down, even with a good read, if you don't follow the right rules, and very few new authors are hired by traditional publishing houses. The odds are that none of us will get pubilshed this way.

I refuse to give up as I want readers beyond family and friends and e-pub sounds next best. I'm not talking about places to post your ms. for a fee. I'm talking about those that you have to submit to and be accepted. I've e-mailed a few authors of romance e-pub sites and received their input. Nobody is becoming rich, but so far all are happy and selling.

I wonder if any of you are considering any options beyond traditional, since it is so hard to become published that way. I'm looking for alternatives that are not vanity press.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'd like to say that the snobbery against anything except traditional is, imo, silly. There's crap out there that is published as well as e-published or POD'd. Sometimes I'm shocked at how bad some traditionally published books are.

The romance genre is the easiest to break into, which is partly why I tried it (I also like romance). Any other genre is nearly impossible, unless it's a "how to" book.

Most of us will eventually need to think outside the box or give up. I won't give up.

New writer get pubish constantly, especially in the romace genre. Romance publishes more new writers than any genre by a wide number.

If your book is any good, a traditional publisher will take it. If it isn't any good, going your way won't improve it's quality.

You may think the snobbery against non-traditional publishers is silly, but it isn't. Your problem may be your statment that there is crap published by traditional publishers. If you really believe this, you haven't read what's published by many e-publishers and other such venues. It's a thousand times worse than anything traditional publishers buy. It fully deserve the sneers. Simply put, almost all of it stinks on ice.

I think you're looking for ways to justify your book being turned down by traditional publishers. If this happebns it's because your book just isn't good enough. That's the norm. About 99 out of 100 aren't anywhere near good enough.

"The right rules" means writing a good book of the kind readers want. If you can't do this, readers aren't going to want it no matter where it's published.

[Mike Coombes]

Anyone who thinks it's anything other than a real crapshoot to become published traditionally for a novel is not in touch with authors.

I'm in touch with authors. I talk to them every day.

Over on the Backspace forum, which is pitched more at the professional, I thin something like 20 members had their first novel bought in 2005, all to major publishers. Barely week goes by without someone making the announcement.

It's still hard to get published. VERY hard. Never delude yourself.

I think maybe you're the only deluded one here. We all know it'd hard; that's the whole point, editors tend to discriminate between what's good and what's not. If it was easy everyone would do it.

[WriterWannaBe]

Well, good luck then. Fiction is harder to break into. Romance is the easiest of fiction.

I'll pursue traditional first, of course. However, if it were as easy as writing a good book as a guarantee of getting pubished, a lot more people would be published. I still maintain it's a good idea to have a backup plan. A good novel alone will NOT guarantee a traditional publisher will buy your book. Sorry, but it's true. Finally, my ms. wasn't turned down. I won't submit it until the editing is completed.

Even Harlequin, the easiest place for publication, is hard to crack. They publish about 4-8 new books a month. May sound like a lot, but they get thousands of ms. The odds are not in the author's favor in any genre, which is again why I'll try hard, but am grateful for alternatives. In no way do I believe all great writing is pubished or that being turned down by a traditional publisher means you didn't write a good story. When you have published works of fiction, get back to me. It's great to have dreams, but, imo, it's better to shoot for the stars, but have backup plans. Take care. I'm pretty much finished with the topic since I was hoping for responses about e-pubications.

Take care.

[(grasshopper)]

What scares me is the fact that I see a little of me in you. Or, at least a little of what I used to be.

I thought I had the magic touch. That what I wrote was going to be the next major international bestseller. It was so frustrating trying to get past all the major roadblocks (like creating a polished manuscript, writing queries, submitting to agents, waiting months). I just wanted the d--- thing out there on the display shelves. Let's bypass all the agents and editors. They don't know a good story when they see one, anyway.

Let the people decide!

Once a member of the general public actually reads my masterpiece, he won't be able to put it down. He'll LOVE it!

And that will be the proof.

Yes, my friend, I see a part of what I used to be in you, and the fact that I might never have found out better scares the living daylights out of me.

Good luck. I wish you all the best.

[L.Jones]

Well, first, publishing houses aren't afraid to take a chance on new authors, because old authors die.

Or want more money. Or act like divas in a world where there are a lot of other writers who would happily claw over their still-warm dead bodies to take their slot in the publshing rotation.

New writers get the call every year. But like they say in the lotto, you can't win if you don't enter. You can't be traditionally published, if that is your goal, unless you are getting your work in front of editors who can buy your work. In the end, you have to decide what you really want and go for it all out - don't worry about that 'what if they reject me?' crap until it happens and not just once. I had more than 50 rejections, mostly from Silhouette (division of Harl) before I sold my first a decade ago and learned something with every one of them.

I know lots of folks do but I would never have considered e-pubbing my work, it would not have worked for me (it's not a fame and fortune thing, I make a modest income off writing and nobody knows my names). Never had a back up for what if a book got rejected other than rewrite it or write another one. That's my advice, decide exactly what you want and go for it. Write, submit, and keep working on the craft.

annie
Luanne Jones
Heathen Girls (Mira - availble now)
aka once upon a time Natalie Patrick (for Silhouette Romance)

[SC Harrison]

It's great to have dreams, but, imo, it's better to shoot for the stars, but have backup plans. Take care. I'm pretty much finished with the topic since I was hoping for responses about e-pubications.

Take care.

You got some very good responses about e-pubs, but you also got some other information you didn't like. That doesn't surprise me, because the tone of your initial post led me to believe you're frustrated.

I have not e-published, but I can tell you what I think would be an advantage to this: the market comes to you. Sort of a digital bookstore, if you will. You can and will need to promote the e-book and draw more people to it, but there is already traffic flow there.

I can tell you about POD from personal experience. Unless you have a unique set of circumstances that guarantees you a large pool of readers, publishing a fiction novel this way is a huge waste of time. Try as you may, getting bookstores to stock the book on their own coin is virtually impossible. Some bookstores will allow you to place them on consignment, but they usually want 60% of the selling price, which may allow you to break even. I know what you said about not being interested in the money, but you should be. That attitude can lead to a huge loss of money if you're not careful.

Whichever route you go, scrutinize the details closely before you sign anything. If you're not comfortable with an aspect of a contract, trust your judgment and ask questions. And lastly, do not even think about going with PublishAmerica.

[pepperlandgirl]

Even Harlequin, the easiest place for publication, is hard to crack. They publish about 4-8 new books a month. May sound like a lot, but they get thousands of ms.

This makes me think you haven't research Harlequin at all. Which line publishes 4-8 books a month? Presents publishes 4, SuperRomance publishes 4 (I believe), Blaze publishes 6. The new Everlasting line will publish 2 (I believe). Thta doesn't count American Romance, American Historical, Intrique, Spice, NEXT, Modern Xtra Sensual. Those are just the lines I remember off the top of my head! Looking at their site, I see there's also Harlequin Medical Romance, the regular Romance line. That's just under the Harlequin umbrella.

Then you've got Sillouette, MIRA, Steeple Hills, LUNA, Red Dress....

They do gets thousands of submissions a month, and every single month, I know people who have contracted a book or more with them--new people.

[dlcharles]

I have to agree about the 'Crap' out there - look at James Frey's best sellers. Someone took a chance and everyone made a fortune. I read the books and have to give him kudos for outsmarting the system, because he definitely is not a writer - he may be an author, but a writer he is not.

[maestrowork]

New writers get published every day. I know.

Focus on your craft. Develop and grow your skills. Do everything you could to "beat the system." Think big, but don't ignore the small. Negativity such as "nobody gives a new writer the time of day" won't help you. Don't think, "There's a lot of published crap out there..." There are many reasons why some crap got through the system, but don't strive to be a statistic like that. Aim higher. You're competing with a lot of good writers out there, all trying to have a piece of that pie. If you settle on writing "crap," your chances will be diminished. Focus on writing the BEST book you can: if you build it, they will come.

Perseverance is key. It separates the could-bes/would-bes and the wanna-bes.

[WriterWannaBe]

Hmmmmm. Thanks for the responses. I'm not frustrated as I'm not sending my ms. out until it is professionally edited, and that will take a while. Then I'm getting help as far as where to send the ms. I haven't had one rejection slip yet because I'm still waiting for a ms. that can't be thrown into the slushpile because of spelling/grammar/storyline errors. I'm being very careful. If I decide to e-pub or POD, it's because I'm great at marketing. If I, say, sell 500 copies, I can use that when submitting to traditionals. Far from being discouraged, right now I have a clean slate. I'm a reaslist though. Most writers don't get published by the Big Guys. I've read the Harlequin guidelines and many books, but I'm not sure I want to write to a category in order to become published. I've done a lot of studying of Harlequin books, as it is one place that accepts unagented and new authors. I'm hardly sitting still. I'm learning. Example: I've learned that a bad agent is worse than no agent, so I've researched reputable agents (RWA has great resources).

The problem is, no matter where you submit, nobody is looking for new authors. New authors are looking for them. I do believe a lot of crap is published so luck and who you know and being in the right place at the right time comes into play. If you write a Western romance, and it's not vogue at the time, it can be great, but it won't be bought. I refuse to accept that traditional is the only way to go. Actually, I'm going to try more than one avenue at the same time and market, market, market for myself, no matter who takes my ms. I never give up once I'm set on a path. I'm upbeat and think I have a realistic attitude towards this business. Talent isn't enough and sometimes you have to think outside the box. Have a great day!

[Sheryl Nantus]

just promise to stay far, far away from PublishAmerica.

[WriterWannaBe]

I have no interest in vanity. If I POD, and that's a last resort, I want to do it myself. I shudder to think of PA.

[DamaNegra]

Yeah, most new authors don't get published, but that's because of the quality of their work. Once someone posted a link to excerpts from a slushpile, and it can literally be like this: (made up by me)

Marilyn stroode towards Ben and put, a hand on his shoulder.
"What is wrong?" she asked concernedly. Ben looked up wearily and tryed to smile.
"I think that there is something wrogn with me but I cant figure out what is it," he said sadly. Marilyn kissed him lovingly, Ben simled. He strode to his desk and opened a drawer she extractedd a letter, from it and tiredly showed it to Marliyn.

That's why some authors never get published. The hardest part is writing a really good book.

[Gabriele]

I'd be careful about professional editing services as well. Unfortunatley, there's a lot of scams around, and even less control than with agents and publishers. It may prove cheaper* and lead to better results to join online critique groups and writer forums (like this one) and learn how to edit your book yourself.

* That is, the costs for one or two good books about self editing. I bet some people here could come up with titles.

I'll tell you a little story, a true one. ;) In a writer forum in which I participate, one day a young man made his first post. He had written a book, a not-quite-romance with a WW2 setting, and because he wanted to get it published, he paid a professional editor 750 bucks. The editor changed a few commas and wrote a long, enthusiastic letter how much she loved the book, that it had made her weep, and that it surely should get published. The young man sent the manuscript to publishers and of course, gathered rejections.

That was when he joined the site and wanted to find out about self publishing. At that point, he had figured out that maybe, his manuscript must still lack something or it would have been snatched by a publisher. We managed to talk him into posting a few samples of his novel, and while they were not as bad as some of the stuff you see on the PA boards, it was not fully up to publishable quality, either. The young man had paid 750 bucks for nothing but a few changed commas and a nice letter.

He posted some more, got a lot of helpful tips and learned what to look for in self editing. He published that book with Lulu since it had already made the rounds, but is now working on a second. And he keeps participating in the forums and the online crit circle. I'm pretty sure his second book will be of publishable quality.

[(grasshopper)]

Besides editing, there is another subtle way that an agency can trick the unwary. I queried an agency a while back and they wanted to see the whole manuscript. They said the manuscript was great. They wanted to send me a contract and represent me.

When I read the contract I was excited at first. It said that they promised to send the manuscipt to at least one publishing company every month for six months, which made a total of six submissions in half a year. I thought this was a good thing because many publishing houses won't accept un-agented manuscript submissions.

But then came the kicker: All I had to do was pay them $30 for each submission to cover expenses.
Tricky, tricky

[blacbird]

Tricky, tricky

Research, research. Lots of info is available on scam agencies.

caw.

[WriterWannaBe]

Since this editor was recommended in a Writer's Digest article, I feel confident. Plus I've talked to her several times on the phone and we have good chemistry. She has an impressive resume and I did check references.

I do think a lot of books in the slushpile deserve to be there, but it's an illusion to think that a good book will be traditionally published. Trends, the editor having published a similar book recently, the editor not believing it is marketable, etc. all come into play. I truly, truly pity anyone who feels that a good book is enough.

I've had critique partners and most of them quit writing! I'm a voracious writer, often at the puter eight hours a day, including weekends. It's hard to find a critique partner who is as serious. Many start a book then life gets in the way. Others just don't have the inner drive. I never do anything without a lot of research, so I haven't been scammed yet. I'm hardly one to jump up and down just because somebody has a deal I can't refuse. I really believe I can take care of myself.

This is a very tough business. It is not all about the quality of your book. How many times did Stephen King have to submit before published? And he's the cream of the crop. Many talented writers never see thier books traditionally published, but it's good to try that first. Then there are other ways, if you want to take an "out of the box" approach.

I'm glad there are other options out there in case I fail to land a contract with a large publishing house, but I will certainly give it my all.

Take care :)

[pepperlandgirl]

This is a very tough business. It is not all about the quality of your book. How many times did Stephen King have to submit before published? And he's the cream of the crop. Many talented writers never see thier books traditionally published, but it's good to try that first. Then there are other ways, if you want to take an "out of the box" approach.

Stephen King garnered A LOT of rejections over the years. But he started writing when he was like, ten years old. And he kept writing through middle school, high school, and college. The reason Stephen King was rejected so many times isn't because people didn't see his genius...it's because he sucked and he needed to learn how to write. He wasn't born the "cream of the crop." And many would argue he hasn't even developed into "the cream of the crop." (Not me, I like the guy).

If you wrote and submitted every single day for 15-20 years, you'd probably have a whole shitload of rejection slips too.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

When I read the contract I was excited at first. It said that they promised to send the manuscipt to at least one publishing company every month for six months, which made a total of six submissions in half a year. I thought this was a good thing because many publishing houses won't accept un-agented manuscript submissions.

But then came the kicker: All I had to do was pay them $30 for each submission to cover expenses.
Tricky, trickyYes, and not just because of the $30 per submission.

"X submissions over Y months" is not at all a desirable thing. It is, according to own Victoria Strauss, one of those things that Real Agents don't do. (http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2006/01/victoria-strauss-what-real-agents-dont.html)



A set number of submissions every month. Some agents say they'll send out three submissions each and every month, come rain or shine. This is really just a time-release version of blitzing. A good agent sends your ms. to the one or two or three editors she feels are most likely to be interested, and waits for a response before approaching anyone else.Click'nzee link-un and check it out.

[Euan H.]

I would just like to point out that:

It's just very hard to break in."

and

very few new authors are hired by traditional publishing houses

and

Major houses sign new authors every day.

are not mutually exclusive statements. Yes, it's true that major houses sign new authors, but the proportion of new authors they sign compared to the number who submit is vanishingly small.


I truly, truly pity anyone who feels that a good book is enough.
If you can write one good book, you can write another one. If you keep writing well--and pay at leat some attention to what's selling--then sooner or later, you'll write something that an editor will buy.

A friend of mine recently sold three books to a major publisher. But the book that sold wasn't the first book she's written. I've read the book she wrote before this, and it was good. But when she looked for agents and publishers, none of them were interested. If she'd gone the e-pub route, she'd probably have sold this most recent book to the same e-publisher. As it is, she didn't do that. She sat down and wrote a better book, and guess what? It sold.

If you want another example, go and read J.A. Konrath's account of his journey to getting published. He wrote (I think) eight novels before writing something saleable. And guess what? It sold.

No, it's not easy to sell a book. Yes, there is luck involved. Yes, you will need to be very persistent, and you may need to forget the first, second, or third books you write. But if you continue to write professional prose, then eventually someone will give you money for it.

[WriterWannaBe]

The fact that Stephen King had to prove he was a writing genius shows you how hard it is to get published. He started writing in high school. I've read his "how to" book. It's very interesting.

[AnneMarble]

The fact that Stephen King had to prove he was a writing genius shows you how hard it is to get published. He started writing in high school. I've read his "how to" book. It's very interesting.
I haven't read that book yet, but I've read some of his essays about how he started out. Even Stephen King had to learn how to write first. He mentioned the first article he wrote for the school paper. His advisor cut it to shreds -- I think King says he that's how he started to learn how to write. Even he didn't know what to do right away. I think he had to work so hard to get published because like everyone else, his first books weren't ready for prime time yet.

That goes for a lot of writers. Almost all published novelists have "trunk novels" --- those early novels that they now hide somewhere in their home. (Some even burn them or toss them off the side of a boat or pier.) The hard part is coming to the point where you accept that your first book (and in my case, the second and third, etc.) aren't ready for prime time. (Why did I think a high school junior could write a spy novel anyway, especially as I hated research?! :D )

[Cheryll]

Finally, my ms. wasn't turned down. I won't submit it until the editing is completed.

Does the above statement mean that you've never submitted a manuscript?

I don't mean to sound harsh, but why all the sour grapes over going the traditional publishing route if you've never even tried it?

Cheryll

[Cheryll]

In last night's chat with Victoria Strauss, she said something I had never thought of before.

She said something to the effect that if you write a novel that is marketable, you're not competing against all the other hundreds or thousands of manuscripts out there, you're only competing against the small fraction of them that are also marketable.

Now THAT is encouraging! Thanks for sharing. :)

Cheryll

[Mike Coombes]

I'm glad you've found a reputable editorial service, Writerwannabe.

For anyone who's interested, I can recommend www.writersconsultant.com, run by Martha and Philip O'Connor. They've both published acclaimed novels, and are both good honest people. Philip O'Connor has been a Pulitzer judge - check out their resumés.

[maestrowork]

the proportion of new authors they sign compared to the number who submit is vanishingly small.


It's because 95% of the people who submit can't write.

Like someone said, if you've written a good, publishable book, you're only up against that 5% of writers. It's really such a bad odd. You just need to keep at it and don't expect something to happen in, say, 2 months.

[Susan Gable]

This makes me think you haven't research Harlequin at all. Which line publishes 4-8 books a month? Presents publishes 4, SuperRomance publishes 4 (I believe), Blaze publishes 6. The new Everlasting line will publish 2 (I believe). Thta doesn't count American Romance, American Historical, Intrique, Spice, NEXT, Modern Xtra Sensual. Those are just the lines I remember off the top of my head! Looking at their site, I see there's also Harlequin Medical Romance, the regular Romance line. That's just under the Harlequin umbrella.

Then you've got Sillouette, MIRA, Steeple Hills, LUNA, Red Dress....

They do gets thousands of submissions a month, and every single month, I know people who have contracted a book or more with them--new people.

Thanks for saying what I was about to. Yes, Harlequin publishes way more than 4-8 books a month. Superromance publishes 6 books per month alone.

I sold my first book to them in 2002. Before that, I was unpublished. (Which means I was unproven, and Harlequin "took a chance on me.") I sold Superromance the first ms I submitted to them, and it was the second ms I'd written. It CAN be done. :) (Oh, I do need to point out that I wrote BUNCHES of other stuff before I tried my hand at my first true novel ms. I wrote several fanfiction novels, which allowed me a place to practice my craft before I attempted a ms. So, it wasn't as "fast" as it seems for me.)

Saying romance is the easiest is only accurate if you're going for sheer number of publishing slots per year. Selling a romance, especially if you don't respect the genre, isn't any "easier" than selling a mystery, or a thriller, etc.

You have to write what you love, first and foremost.

Yes, this is a tough game. But that's what makes the pay-off all the sweeter.

Susan G.

[Gabriele]

(Why did I think a high school junior could write a spy novel anyway, especially as I hated research?! :D )

Em ... because the spy was gay? :D

[AnneMarble]

Em ... because the spy was gay? :D
No, but I did wonder about the traitor. He seemed awfully close to his murdered protege... ;) Other than that, however, I'm sure he was rather dull. So were my hero, my heroine, the kindly old rich guy, and just about everybody except perhaps the assassin, Jorge Jaeger, who was based on Jorge, a cute camp counsellor from Germany. :) Like I said, trunk novel.

How bad is it? Let me put it this way. If it were available in typed form, I would donate it to SFWA so that they could use it as another sting manuscript. :D But let's be honest. Most of the writers I know, including published ones, have manuscripts like this somewhere in their home or storage bin -- or at least in their distance memories. Maybe it's a good thing I started young because I was flexible enough to recognize that my novels weren't ready to be published yet, and I had the time to try again often enough so that eventually, I got better. (Somebody once read one of my manuscripts and said "Wow, it reads like a real novel." She wouldn't have said that about Jorge Jaeger's book.)

[Euan H.]

It's because 95% of the people who submit can't write.

Like someone said, if you've written a good, publishable book, you're only up against that 5% of writers. It's really such a bad odd. You just need to keep at it and don't expect something to happen in, say, 2 months.
That's true. But the problem comes in telling when you've written something that's good and publishable.

Just after I finished it, I thought my first novel was pretty good. When I look back at it now, it makes me cringe to think how bad it was.

[Gabriele]

Anne,

Some instinct told me that my first attempt from 2001/02 wasn't publishable. When I finished part 1 (some 125K) of what is now Kings and Rebels in my Rewriting files, I had it printed and ring-bound with the University printing service, just to hold a book in my hands. When I reread the mess, it dawned me that it might look like a book, though a cheap one, but that it wasn't one. :D

Thus, I searched the web for writers sites, not publishers, and found Forward Motion and another site I have meanwhile left (the place allowed political discussions and the anti-Germanism of some members offended me). The crits I got and still get really help me to write better books. One day I will go back to Kings and Rebels because I like some of it enough to do a rewrite.

With a bit less self criticism, Kings and Rebels could easily have ended with PA under its former title, The Exiles. *shudder*

[WriterWannaBe]

I'm NOT bitter, just realistic. It's hard to get published by one of the few traditional publishing houses, no matter how good your book is. That doesn't mean it's smart to publish with PA. I wouldn't do it. I'm just starting my journey and am NOT bitter, but I do feel I'm realistic. The big publishing houses would rather publish proven sellers. Many are recycling old books, a new trend. I'm a writer and I want readers. I'm trying traditional first. After that, I'll try an e-pub that doesn't charge fees. To me, that doesn't mean I'm not up to snuff. There are simply more opportunities. I think it's smart to get outside editing, if you check references. It's hard to edit your own work, and you could miss something. It's naive to think that a good book will get traditionally published. That's not always true. In fact, few new authors are published, good and bad.