Internal thoughts and italics

[Stacey Sweeney]

When writing in the third person POV, should the character's thoughts be in italics? What about when you submit to an agent? I had one person tell me that they should be underlined and another swear that they should be written just like this, no italics or underlining. I've read that they should be in italics. (Self-Editing for Fiction Writers.)
Thanks,
Stacey

[ChaosTitan]

This is how I've had it explained in the past:

I can't believe she's doing this. Dirk picked up the ax. She'll pay.

OR...

I can't believe she's doing this, Dirk thought as he picked up the ax. He would make her pay.

One uses italics to set the thoughts apart, the other uses a "thought" indicator. Things that are underlined in a manuscript are later turned into italics in the final print.

[Torgo]

It's a house style issue. Like so many things, there's no right answer, so just be consistent. If the publisher picks up your book and feels very strongly that internal speech should all be italicised, they'll discuss with you whether to change it.

[Shadow_Ferret]

If you're going to have "Dirk thought" then why wouldn't you put his thoughts in quotes?

"I can't believe she's doing this," Dirk thought as he picked up the ax. He would make her pay.

This is one of the reasons I have tried to avoid all internal dialog in my third person stuff because it is so confusing.

[veinglory]

I think chaostitan is dead right in showing standard practise for final formatting.

Using underlines in the manuscript to indicate italics used to be standard practise but now seems to be falling out of use.

[ViatMortege]

I'm a self taught writer, so maybe you shouldn't trust me, but I always italic internal thoughts when in third person.
I can't believe she did that. Dirk thought. She will pay.

Then again, I'm not sure there's really any rules on when to Italic and when to not.

[Julie Worth]

I'm a self taught writer, so maybe you shouldn't trust me, but I always italic internal thoughts when in third person.
I can't believe she did that. Dirk thought. She will pay.

Then again, I'm not sure there's really any rules on when to Italic and when to not.

No, it’s wrong to do both. And it’s better to paraphrase his thoughts--then you can dispense with the 'he thought' and the italics:


Dirk couldn’t believe she'd done that. He picked up the ax. Now she would pay.

[loquax]

I can't believe she's doing this, Dirk thought as he picked up the ax. He would make her pay.Julie already gave an example of this, but I would strengthen "He would make her pay" to "She would pay". That is unless you're working in omni, in which case the reader might take "she would pay" as some definite telling of the future on behalf of the narrator http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[ChaosTitan]

Sorry about that, loquax. I hadn't decided if my two-sentence example was limited or omnisicent.... :ROFL:

[jen.nifer]

No, it’s wrong to do both. And it’s better to paraphrase his thoughts--then you can dispense with the 'he thought' and the italics:


Dirk couldn’t believe she'd done that. He picked up the ax. Now she would pay.





I'm learning too, but is it really wrong? His thoughts in italics actually hit me harder than the paraphrase. And I'm all for dramatic effects... -- whatever works for the reader.

Of course, I wouldn't overdo it or do it unnecessarily. Now I'm curious.

[jen.nifer]

I'm learning too, but is it really wrong? His thoughts in italics actually hit me harder than the paraphrase. And I'm all for dramatic effects... -- whatever works for the reader.

Of course, I wouldn't overdo it or do it unnecessarily. Now I'm curious.


Sorry, ignore me, I'm stuck in first person mode.

[ChaosTitan]

I'm learning too, but is it really wrong?

It's not right or wrong. It's just a matter of style.

I prefer using italics in my stories, rather than paraphrasing, because I enjoy the intimacy of actually hearing his/her thoughts. That's just me. :D

[MMo]

Internal thoughts and italics -- various comments.

Underlining is one way of designating italics. It's a shorthand for the typesetter, and a holdover from typewriter days. Some publishers still call for it in manuscripts to designate words to be typeset in italics.

If the thoughts are internal, they are not spoken, and therefore should not be enclosed in quotation marks. Otherwise, the reader can quite easily mistake the thoughts for speech.

One can either use italicized, first person thoughts (in a third person POV) or paraphrase the thoughts. It depends on how these have been used in the bulk of the manuscript. If, out of the blue, one italicized first-person thought appears, it can be quite distracting. However, if you have set this up from early on, it can be quite effective.

Either
Ohmigod, John thought. She's gonna kill me.
Ohmigod, John thought. She's gonna kill me.
Or
John froze in midstep. She was going to kill him.

could be appropriate.

Mo

[blacbird]

As a perhaps digressive aside, one of the matters I've found that most mars manuscripts I've critiqued and edited is excessive internal rumination, the substitution of "thought" for "activity". It would probably be useful for anyone to go through a rough manuscript carefully and look hard at every instance of "thought" or "internal dialogue" to see if what is intended can't be conveyed more effectively through narrative of externalized action and/or actual dialogue. This also gets into the other thread about the excessive use of "I" in first-person narrative. Having a character think something is often a lazy and cheap way to get out of constructing actual narrative.

caw.