Formatting Dialogue Questions for SF/F

[Dru]

Hello everyone,


I have some questions about dialogue. In my critique group we’re running into some long standing issues with how to properly handle dialogue. I’m trying to find some “best practice” as to what is generally accepted for submissions. I want to give feedback that will help the group, rather than things that might rub me simply on a reader/writer style issue.

Thanks in advance,

--Dru
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[All examples are fabricated but follow the general flow/idea that I’m trying to figure out. ]

Example One: When is it ok to have initiating dialogue follow text?

Alice walked down the street, pacing the man in front of her. She waited for him to press the walkway call button. Then she said, “Hello, Bob.”

Or

Alice walked down the street, pacing the man in front of her. She waited for him to press the walkway call button.

“Hello, Bob,” Alice said.

Example Two: How many times can you embed dialogue then action pairings. “Hey, Alice,” said Bob. He tried not to stare, but she was holding the crowbar in a very threatening manner. “So, let me guess,” he said, trying to keep eye contact while Alice advanced towards him. “You talked with Cathy.”

Or

“Hey, Alice,” said Bob. He tried not to stare, but she was holding the crowbar in a very threatening manner.

“So, let me guess,” he said, trying to keep eye contact while Alice advanced towards him. “You talked with Cathy.”

Example Three: Tags, “said” and talking heads. Everyone seems to have different opinions of “said” versus other tags, along with how long you can run a dialogue with no tags. Alice raised the crowbar. People on the sidewalk scattered.

“You’ll be sorry.”

“Look, you’re getting the wrong idea.”

“No, I think I have a pretty good idea.”

Or


Alice raised the crowbar. People on the sidewalk scattered.

“You’ll be sorry,” threatened Alice.

“Look, you’re getting the wrong idea,” pleaded Bob.

“No, I think I have a pretty good idea,” chuckled Alice.

Or
Alice raised the crowbar. People on the sidewalk scattered.

“You’ll be sorry,” said Alice, voice chilling Bob to the bone.

“Look,” said Bob, holding his hands out to block the promised blow. “You’re getting the wrong idea.”

“No, I think I have a pretty good idea,” said Alice as she swung down at Bob.

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[Sage]

Hey, Dru. Some of this is my personal opinion & some is what I've learned on this site. For more recent discussions on the topics of dialogue formatting & talking heads, you could check out these threads:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26746

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26627

For example one, I'd say that either way is fine.

For example two, I'd personally prefer having the whole of Bob's dialogue in one paragraph. I might split it up if the subject of the sentence in between wasn't him, but since it is, I would keep the whole thing together.

For example three, you want to avoid unnecessary tags. There is nothing wrong w/ sticking w/ "said" since it is practically invisible to the reader. If you use a slew of tags like "threatened," "pleaded," "chuckled," the reader will notice & it will distract them from what you want them to focus on - the dialogue. It might even strike them as funny. And, as I've read all over this site, often dialogue tags other than "said" are redundant (as are adverbs after them). An occasional "chuckled" probably won't get you into too much trouble, 'cuz otherwise, how would they know he was chuckling, but we know she's threatening & we know he's pleading, due to the dialogue. And if we don't, then either they weren't really threatening or pleading, or you didn't write it well enough.

Hope this helps.

[James D. Macdonald]

Try reading a bunch of recent well-regarded novels. See how they handle dialog. (The answer will turn out to be "all of the above.") With that in mind, go and do what works for you.

[Albedo of Zero]

As far as talking heads go...if the dialog can be attributed to either party, then tag it with whomever is speaking. When it's an obvious response there is no need.

[blacbird]

Echo what James said. Plus, I can't think of anything relative to dialogue formatting in the SF/F genres that differs from dialogue formatting in any other kind of fiction. Look at other published books in these genres (Orson Scott Card, Ursula LeGuin, Philip K. Dick, Terry Pratchett, Terry Brooks, Holly Lisle, Robert Jordan, Mercedes Lackey, Anne McCaffrey, Philip Jose Farmer, Ray Bradbury . . .) for examples.

Which reminds me of another point relating to similar questions often posed here. The answers are often available simply by examining successfully published works. So . . . why are they continually asked here? Are people not reading in the genres they are attempting to write in?

caw.

[Dru]

The reason I asked was that I don't often (ever) recall seeing initiating dialogue after a body of action, outside of a brief sentence, here or there. I don't see three to six sentence paragraphs then followed by a section of dialogue. Maybe I'm not reading the right books, though.

Likewise, in the dialogue-action-dialogue action flip-flop, in SFF I see it more than in the literary genre. Literary dialogue and action are generally paired, but not chained. My group currently has some tendencies to want to have long chains of dialogue-action-dialogue-action-dialogue in the same paragraph.

In the tag space, every editor/instructor/group I've worked with have concurred with both Sage and Albedo. Easily attributed, if short, is ok. Tagging if there is any uncertainty, and keep it to "said" to avoid show-don't-tell issues, and unintentional humor.

The reason I presented these questions is that while there have been topics similar to these in the boards, I couldn't find an exact match related to these issues, with the exception of the tagging, which seems to be more of a personal taste from the threads I read.

The reason I asked about this, blacbird, is that I trust the board members and their inputs, and sometimes published works are not representative of what a first-time author should follow. Especially when compared to well -renowned authors. The number of "the rules" that established authors are allowed to break definitely increases over thier published lifespan, because they have earned the reading trust of their fanbase. New authors haven't earned that trust yet.

I am trying to make sure I represent effective dialogue presentation choices to my group, instead of just things that drive me nutty as a reader. I'm trying to help people present the best possible work that they can to agents and editors, so that they can go on to establish a fanbase and break all the rules they want.

Maybe it is an impossible task, since for every example, there is a well-regarded exception to it. Perhaps I should just mark discomfort zones in those dialogue sections, and people in the group can take it or leave it. I was trying to divorce my "internal instinct" from my "feedback loop".

Dru, feeling more confused now

[Maryn]

Example One: When is it ok to have initiating dialogue follow text?

Alice walked down the street, pacing the man in front of her. She waited for him to press the walkway call button. Then she said, “Hello, Bob.”

Or

Alice walked down the street, pacing the man in front of her. She waited for him to press the walkway call button.

“Hello, Bob,” Alice said.The rule I use--what works for me, not a hard and fast rule everyone everywhere should be following, which is good because they don't--is that the character's short dialogue can be included in the same paragraph as her actions just before she opens her mouth to speak. However, if what she says is longer, or of great importance and deserves to stand out ("I killed your dog, Bob," she said), then it gets (to start) its own paragraph.
Example Two: How many times can you embed dialogue then action pairings. “Hey, Alice,” said Bob. He tried not to stare, but she was holding the crowbar in a very threatening manner. “So, let me guess,” he said, trying to keep eye contact while Alice advanced towards him. “You talked with Cathy.”

Or

“Hey, Alice,” said Bob. He tried not to stare, but she was holding the crowbar in a very threatening manner.

“So, let me guess,” he said, trying to keep eye contact while Alice advanced towards him. “You talked with Cathy.”Again, just my own me-rule, but I'm good with several embedded dialogue snippets in with the expository action, so long as the speaker is the one taking the action. I am mindful, however, that this may contribute to overly long paragraphs which readers may start skimming, so I keep looking for the best place to break it.
Example Three: Tags, “said” and talking heads. Everyone seems to have different opinions of “said” versus other tags, along with how long you can run a dialogue with no tags.

Alice raised the crowbar. People on the sidewalk scattered.

“You’ll be sorry.”

“Look, you’re getting the wrong idea.”

“No, I think I have a pretty good idea.”

Or
Alice raised the crowbar. People on the sidewalk scattered.

“You’ll be sorry,” threatened Alice.

“Look, you’re getting the wrong idea,” pleaded Bob.

“No, I think I have a pretty good idea,” chuckled Alice.

Or
Alice raised the crowbar. People on the sidewalk scattered.

“You’ll be sorry,” said Alice, voice chilling Bob to the bone.

“Look,” said Bob, holding his hands out to block the promised blow. “You’re getting the wrong idea.”

“No, I think I have a pretty good idea,” said Alice as she swung down at Bob.Once more, with feeling! My self-rule is to slap my knuckles with a ruler if I see myself heading toward your second example. We don't need threatened, pleaded or chuckled--the words your characters say tell us that.

I like the clean exchange in the first example best--in three or four lines exchanged, there's no confusion who's speaking, but I like to insert an action line (rather than a tag/attribute) along with someone's dialogue every three or four lines to help the reader keep his place.

Your third example gives us additional information--that Bob's scared and will attempt to deflect the blows, and that Alice swings--and it's not wrong if the reader needs to have that information.

I might have done it very slightly differently:

“You’ll be sorry,” said Alice.

Her voice chilled Bob to the bone. He held his hands out to block the promised blow. “Look, you’re getting the wrong idea.”

The change puts Bob's reaction to Alice's words in the same paragraph as his dialogue. It also replaces a "said" with an action line.

Although I believe that properly used, said disappears, just like the. You can't overuse it if you're writing lean, using action instead of tags, etc.

Maryn, hoping this didn't just further muddy the waters