How come THAT got made (and mine didn't)?

[Diane]

Over on the Novels board, I managed to accidentally derail the discussion of "Hot Literary Genres" by bringing up a quote about screenplays from [Redacted--JDM]

In the discussion that followed, Sassenach asked:

Still doesn't account for the hours of crap that gets made. Timing? Luck? Connections?

Here, at long last, is the answer:

Because whoever greenlighted the movie thinks it will make money.

"The Mummy Returns" (cited as an example of "how did THAT get made?") is actually a perfect example. It was NOT a spec script. (As has been pointed out elsewhere, the spec market is not what it used to be: most movies that get made are not made from spec scripts.) It was a SEQUEL to a very popular movie (instant name recognition).

And how did "The Mummy" get made? Also not a spec script. It was a REMAKE (familiar territory). The director, Stephen Sommers, put the project together -- he had a track record.

None of this applies to the screenwriter trying to get started. You need to worry about writing an excellent script that has great roles for stars, a decent budget, and enough familiarity for the viewer to make it an easy sell.

[matthewrobertblack]

At the end of the day, $$$ is the name of the game. Recognizable or re-made pictures are a cash-in for studios because of their proven track records (although there have been some busts), but they're also easier to get made. Harvey Weinstein once said "it's easier to finance a picture for $20 million that you know will work, rather than a picture for $2 million that might not make it..." Writers are sort of at the mercy of, well... everyone in Hollywood. We work hard (maybe the hardest), and it's not often that we reap the rewards that other involved in projects do. The industry is based on profits, not penmanship. Films that are made, enjoyable or dreadful alike, are made because, like Diane said, they (are assumed) to make a profit. Obviously there are differences when it comes to indie films, where the artist(s) may have a little more say or control, but in mainstream, commercial Hollywood, the bottom line is money.

[hubbabubbs]

weeeee what goes around comes around. Allow me to derail this discussion with some delusionaly (how is this not a word?) astute and possibly baseless gripes about the lack of substance and drama in action films.

We have comedy in action films. Check. Romance in action films. Check. And sci-fi is all about action films (what is up with that by the way? Citing Ultraviolet, Serenity, Aeon Flux, Equilibrium, etc). But somehow drama just can’t squeeze itself in there.

Is it because of the length of the film? Seems to me that action sequences take up much more space on the page. When I cut my action-drama into a drama, It went from a 120 page script to a 60 page script. All because of feedback that I could either write the next summer blockbuster (what the hell is wrong with Michael Bay, by the way?) or I could write a dark drama with hints of a thriller creeping in (their words not mine).

I WANT IT ALL GODD*MNIT!!!

Is that so much to ask?

I just want to write a good, entertaining film (sort of like Edmond Rostand accomplished with Cyrano de Bergerac for the theatrical world). Okay, a notable exception is A History of Violence, but that I maintain is more because of the outstanding performances of Viggo Mortensen and Maria Bello than because of the actual script.

Am I doomed to failure, or is this the time I am supposed to find a right-shaped box and squeeze in? Kind of like a really strict weightloss plan. But I want my chocolate pudding, d*mn it. I WANT MY PUDDING!

[Optimus]

Sometimes, crappy movies get made because someone attached (the writer, the director, whoever) knows somebody who knows somebody who blows somebody.

Or, the other way around.

[StephieM]

This conversation seems to come up a lot. There is many different reasons why a bad movie is a bad movie.

1) As Opti said, it's who you know.
2) A director screws up a really great script.
3) Money, money, money. A producer needs a film pronto, so they pick the first thing that comes there way.

We have comedy in action films. Check. Romance in action films. Check. And sci-fi is all about action films (what is up with that by the way? Citing Ultraviolet, Serenity, Aeon Flux, Equilibrium, etc). But somehow drama just can’t squeeze itself in there.

I have to disagree slightly with this. Though most actions films hold very little drama, there are some that have atleast a small amount.

In "The Italian Job" the drama comes in when Stella (Charlize Theron) must come face to face with her father's killer (Edward Norton) and pretend to be all nicey nicey, while she and the others plot out their revenge.

In "Gone in 60 Seconds" the drama comes in when Raines (Nicholas Cage) is forced to go back to being a master car theif in order to save the life of his brother Kip. His brother being the reason he left that profession in the first place.

In "Con Air", Poe's (Nicolas Cage) actions are driven by his need to get home and see his daughter for the first time. drama.

In "Face Off"....(What do you know, another Nicolas cage movie)...plenty of drama in this one.

I could probably think of more, but that's all I could come up with for now. I think what makes a good action film is that little bit of drama pinched in there somewhere.

Steph

[aghast]

studio execs who are not artists or writers but beancounters greenlight movies that they 'think' would make gobs of $$$ but what do they really know i mean even spielberg greenlighted stinkers at dreamworks, some of these people wouldnt know a good script or story if it smacks them in the face

[Diane]

Sometimes, crappy movies get made because someone attached (the writer, the director, whoever) knows somebody who knows somebody who blows somebody.

Or, the other way around.

Nobody is going to commit $50m.-$100m. on the basis of a really good blowjob.

Pre-production is often messed up -- getting the greenlight before they have a decent script. ("We'll bring in writers! They'll fix it!") Giving a greenlight in order to maintain a working relationship with an actor. Deciding that the "familiar territory" and "cool visuals" will be a bigger draw than, say, a coherent story -- but you'll notice that everyone involved in "Van Helsing" was a pro.

But sex? That's why every other female in movies is a hooker: these really are the women producers know. Everyone can get sex.

[aghast]

the casting couche is overrated but it does pay to know someone n the business that was how sideway was made before the novel was even published

[Diane]

Let me put it this way: for those of you who are writing scripts and interested in becoming a professional screenwriter <i>and</i> think the only reason a movie gets made is because "someone knew someone" or "they only want crap," you are shooting yourself in the foot before you get started.

For one thing, why would you want to get involved in an industry like that?

For another, with this much money at stake for companies who believe strongly in the bottom line, do you think they're going to commit to a project just because their kid goes to swim class with another guy's kid?

Seriously?

Movies get made because a)someone thinks they'll make money and b)someone has the passion to spend at least two years of their lives putting it together and getting it made.

I can't recommend Site link removed per request of other site's Webmaster highly enough. After you get through those, I can post some more links. [Redacted--JDM] (sadly, uncredited). He knows quite a bit about how the system actually works, so you should check him out.

[dpaterso]

I'm not exactly sure, Diane, but could be you're preaching to the converted. The goal is surely to write the best (and arguably the most commercial) screenplay you can. And query/submit anywhere and as often you can. It's the only way to reduce the huge odds that all writers face.

Yes indeed, Site link removed per request of other site's Webmaster, TwoAdverbs, Bill Martell's Script Secrets, are all bulging with great advice. Links to these sites and others are in the tips (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24087) thread.

And, read more scripts. Secret of the universe.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57)
Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus

[xhouseboy]

Let me put it this way: for those of you who are writing scripts and interested in becoming a professional screenwriter <i>and</i> think the only reason a movie gets made is because "someone knew someone" or "they only want crap," you are shooting yourself in the foot before you get started.

For one thing, why would you want to get involved in an industry like that?

For another, with this much money at stake for companies who believe strongly in the bottom line, do you think they're going to commit to a project just because their kid goes to swim class with another guy's kid?



Couldn't agree more.

There are some TV and film projects that took years to get off the ground, and the success was down to the relentless faith of the exec producers as they pushed the work of (at the time) untried and unknown writers in the industry.

[Boo_Radley]

Nobody is going to commit $50m.-$100m. on the basis of a really good blowjob.

I think that'd be some kind of record, especially when you can get them on 28th and Broadway for five bucks a pop!

I'm in agreement with those who've said bad films become bad during the production. Lots of things look really good on paper and it's our job as writers (or aspiring writers) to make the reader think, "This script needs to be made!"

Once that script is bought, though, and the producer/studio/actor/whoever decides to add his/her own stamp on the material is when things tend to go badly.

Someone mentioned A History of Violence: it's actually a good example of the opposite. David Cronenberg was brought on to "elevate the material", which means the script, though good, wasn't all it could be. But in the hands of a capable and intelligent writer like Cronenberg, it becomes an Oscar-nominated film.

Conversely, there have been scripts which have been all the rage (Bonfire of the Vanities, for example) but turned out to be horrible films. All because it either 1)looked good on paper, or 2) because whoever bought the script thought the changes they wanted would improve it. But, we saw how Bonfire of the Vanities came out.

I like to think that a high-powered studio exec is high-powered for a reason, but obviously it's not always because they can improve upon a screenplay they've purchased.

[Diane]

I'm in agreement with those who've said bad films become bad during the production. Lots of things look really good on paper and it's our job as writers (or aspiring writers) to make the reader think, "This script needs to be made!"

Once that script is bought, though, and the producer/studio/actor/whoever decides to add his/her own stamp on the material is when things tend to go badly.

Well, anyone who hands the directorial reins to Uwe Boll must be expecting a bad movie. Things in Hollywood I don't understand? How Boll keeps getting work. His movies don't even bring in any money.

The development process probably does have a lot to do with why movies are the way they are: it starts out as one kind of movie, then someone else's vision changes it to another kind of movie, etc. And the big corporations want to play it safe: they need to maximize the audience. Unfortunately, the audience has deeply fragmented.

But there's a lot of that (unfortunately) the writer won't be able to do anything about.

What you can do is write a great script. And then you will be amazed at how many connections you suddenly have. Really and truly.

[stegosaurus]

You should see my boss in the b.s. survival job I work. She's completely incompetent and only got her position because she's married to the brother of the guy that owns the company. You see, I can let on in on a secret I've learned: LIFE IS NOT FAIR. there will always be people/projects that suck that get made because of connections. Heck, my only real brush with success came not from the strength of my script but from the famous father of the director we attached.

which brings me to two very important pieces of advice I recieved that changed my outlook:

1) from my friend, Melanie: "other peoples success does not affect your own". Who cares about the Uwe Bol's in this world...heck, we should be inspired by his ambition because if he can make movies....just imagine what someone with Optimus' talent could do given the same chance. Every b.S. movie that gets made doesn't take anything away from you. it was gonna be made regardless of what you did. I truly believe that if you have that great script, you will be noticed. which brings me to:

2) from Del in From Real to Deal: "either your script is great or it sucks" I was angry for a long time about a deal that imploded (same one with famous father above) and I blamed everyone....until I finally had to face the fact that the reason the movie didn't get made was not because of politics or the fact that we were being used to create hype for this director before he did his first "real" job.....all of that was true, but the reason the script was not made was because it wasn't great. Yeah it was good. but good dont' cut it. If it had been truly great, the opportunity I got would have paid off. It wasn't. it didnt'. lesson learned.

write the great script. don't ***** about the crappy ones.

[systemaddict]

Well, anyone who hands the directorial reins to Uwe Boll must be expecting a bad movie. Things in Hollywood I don't understand? How Boll keeps getting work. His movies don't even bring in any money.

The development process probably does have a lot to do with why movies are the way they are: it starts out as one kind of movie, then someone else's vision changes it to another kind of movie, etc. And the big corporations want to play it safe: they need to maximize the audience. Unfortunately, the audience has deeply fragmented.

But there's a lot of that (unfortunately) the writer won't be able to do anything about.

What you can do is write a great script. And then you will be amazed at how many connections you suddenly have. Really and truly.


Interesting you bring that up, Uwe Boll.

I live in Vancouver where many, if not all of his films have been made. I know many people that have worked with him and I myself have worked on some of those atrocious films.

He happens to be financed by German, or Holland financers (might not be accurate, but it's over seas)...and heres the deal.

There is a loop hole- a big one, whereby any film that is financed that doesn't make money, is subsidized and paid for by either the government or a funding source and actually pays out more than invested. So no matter what, they profit...and if it makes money...then they're in the good that way as well.

Uwe slated 10 films, with Brightlight pictures...and off they went.

So, as for this topic...yes crappy movies get made. Sometimes it isn't all who you know...but what you know-- not applying to writing of course.

[madmaxmedia]

Site link removed per request of other site's Webmaster

[madmaxmedia]

Uwe slated 10 films, with Brightlight pictures...and off they went.

So, as for this topic...yes crappy movies get made. Sometimes it isn't all who you know...but what you know-- not applying to writing of course.

LOL- maybe by the 9th or 10th movie, he'll actually make a decent one! ;)