40k novels

[billz015]

Currently I am attempting to get a 40k manuscript published. I was told by a member here that a 40k novel isn't something that agents and such will want to get publish or publish.

I was told at the three workshops I've attended(I couldn't really tell you who was there, but it was held by some local writer's group in my state) that a writer who is basically unpublished(I have one PA book which was a bad choice on my part) wouldn't be able to get a novel over 60,000 words published. As well as having that drilled into my head at those workshops I've been told that by teachers at my high school who claim to know something of the workings of the publishing industry.

Now I am curious if a 40k novel would be considered publishable or attractive to an agent/publishing company.

[three seven]

What genre is it?

[scfirenice]

To be honest, the average first time novelist should shoot for anywhere from 75-85K words. Though some may get LONGER books published, it's difficult to get shorter ones on the market, 40K is very short and would be difficult to even be billed as a novella. Well established authors often have difficulty plugging a novella. My advice would be to make the book novel length (> than 70K) Now maybe Uncle Jim has better advice.

[veinglory]

I suggest you check out the length acceptable to publishers that interest you. Novels are general at least 50,000 words. There are some opportunities to publish novellas but generally with small to medium sized publishers not the 'big' guys.

[Bufty]

I assume, or rather, I hope - that 75K figure doesn't apply to YA Fantasy. I'm around the 62,500 mark having sliced 30,000 words off.

To be honest, the average first time novelist should shoot for anywhere from 75-85K words. Though some may get LONGER books published, it's difficult to get shorter ones on the market, 40K is very short and would be difficult to even be billed as a novella. Well established authors often have difficulty plugging a novella. My advice would be to make the book novel length (> than 70K) Now maybe Uncle Jim has better advice.

[badducky]

If the manuscript is very good, it will be very attractive to everyone, regardless of length.

However, choosing the right marketplace may become a challenge. This is not a challenge that research cannot overcome.

[Sassenach]

As well as having that drilled into my head at those workshops I've been told that by teachers at my high school who claim to know something of the workings of the publishing industry.



I wouldn't depend on the industry expertise of high school teachers!

[Jamesaritchie]

Currently I am attempting to get a 40k manuscript published. I was told by a member here that a 40k novel isn't something that agents and such will want to get publish or publish.

I was told at the three workshops I've attended(I couldn't really tell you who was there, but it was held by some local writer's group in my state) that a writer who is basically unpublished(I have one PA book which was a bad choice on my part) wouldn't be able to get a novel over 60,000 words published. As well as having that drilled into my head at those workshops I've been told that by teachers at my high school who claim to know something of the workings of the publishing industry.

Now I am curious if a 40k novel would be considered publishable or attractive to an agent/publishing company.

My advice would be to stop listening to people and start looking at the guidelines publishers of books in your genre use to guide writers.

The average published novel is 100,000 words, and the majority of publishers in the majority of genres want novels ranging from 80K-120K. But yu always have to check the guidelines to see exactly what publishers want.

Having said this, the two shortest monster bestellers I can think of are Robert James Waller's "The Bridges of Madison County" at 36,000 words. That's very short, and this thing was on the bestseller list forever. And Nicholas Spark's "The Notebook" was only 49,000 words. I'd say both of these novels are in the same genre.

But you should definitely look for teh guidelines put out by publishers of your genre, and see what range they want. I will say this; too short is better than too long.

[Jamesaritchie]

To be honest, the average first time novelist should shoot for anywhere from 75-85K words. Though some may get LONGER books published, it's difficult to get shorter ones on the market, 40K is very short and would be difficult to even be billed as a novella. Well established authors often have difficulty plugging a novella. My advice would be to make the book novel length (> than 70K) Now maybe Uncle Jim has better advice.

40K is officially a novel everywhere, and with some publishers 30K is considered a novel. Of course, any K is a novel if a publisher wants to release it as such. "The Bridges of Madison County" was a first novel pubished by Warner Books, one of the big boys, it stayed on top of the bestseller list for better than a year, and it was only 36,000 words.



In children's, many a novel is well under 25k, and in YA a novel can be anywhere from 30k-infinity, as Rowling has shown.

[writeorwrong]

YA novels are typically shorter, the conventional wisdom being that young peoples' attention spans are shorter. 50,000 words is not unusual for a YA novel. Other genres have, as stated, more lengthy word counts.

[badducky]

Don't forget the short story that inspired "Brokeback Mountain", republished as a stand-alone... It's tiny!

[MDLP]

I take out a lot of material from my local library that's on the Barnes & Noble Discover Awards list and a great many of these books are between 140 and 280 pages, and that's with wide margins and 13-point fonts, and these are the books Barnes & Noble advertises most heavily. So I don't think it's absolutely impossible for a book with a paltry word count to get published, it just needs to be phenomenal, something that makes critics salivate and greens with envy the eyes of writers like us:)

[veinglory]

I think it would be over-stating it to say 40k is offically and everywhere called a novel--some lines explicitly describe this length as within 'novella'.

[Jamesaritchie]

I think it would be over-stating it to say 40k is offically and everywhere called a novel--some lines explicitly describe this length as within 'novella'.

I can only tell you that I've never seen any authratative source call 40K a novella. It isn't. The SFWA officially lists 40K and up as a novel, and outside of the SFWA, all the big pubishers have been calling 30K and up a novel since before I've been alive.

Now, there are certainly many lines that do not want novels as short as 40K, but 40K, and shorter, is a novel, and guidelines that says it isn't was written by someone who didn't bother to do any research at all.

The problem, I think, is that for teh last twenty years or so, novellas have been an almost forgotten commodity, and novels have grown longer and longer, so if something is shorter than a given publisher wants, someone just naturally calls it a "novella."

It isn't. The difference between a novella and a novel is more than length, just as the difference between a short story and a novel is more than length. You can't write a 100,000 word short story that's any good because a novel and a short story are different in structure. So is a novella and a novel.

There was a time not so long ago when novels in the 40K range, and a bit shorter, were very common, and they are, I hope, making a comeback.

Whether they do or not, 40K is a novel, whatever guidelines say, unless it's horribly written and has the wrong structure.

[veinglory]

They may not be all that major and agree with you as to what a novella is but 40k is a novella for Echelon press, Bywater Books, Blindside Publishing, Silks Vault, Cobblestone Press, etc

[willietheshakes]

The Hugo Awards have 40,000 words as the top end of the novella category.

[icerose]

I don't know what genre yours falls into but Avalon romance wants books in that length.

Sara

[HourglassMemory]

Mine is on the 4th chapter and has 151 KB...is that too much? lol

[maestrowork]

that a writer who is basically unpublished(I have one PA book which was a bad choice on my part) wouldn't be able to get a novel over 60,000 words published.

Really? I am a first-time published novelist and my novel is 70,000-word, already short by novel standard.

[billz015]

What genre is it?

I think it'd be considered a dark sci-fi.

[maestrowork]

Get it up to at least 60K.

[janetbellinger]

I think it'd be considered a dark sci-fi.

In fact, I'd take whatever they say, and do the opposite.

[billz015]

In fact, I'd take whatever they say, and do the opposite.

Take whatever who says?

[Danger Jane]

Why would you do the opposite of what the publishing guidelines say?

[banjo]

Jonathan Livingston Seagull, was what, about 30K words.

It sold over a milion copies in it's first two years (by1972). It was published in 1970 and is still in print today.

If you produce an outstanding work that readers want, they will buy it what ever its length. Write it, perfect it and put it in the hands of an agent and publisher who believes in it as you do, and the rest will be history.

[WerenCole]

Mine is on the 4th chapter and has 151 KB...is that too much? lol


Now, is that a file size, or word count. 151 KB (in terms of file size) can translate into just about anything when such things as font size and file format are considered.

We seem to always have these word count conversations around here. . . from what I remember we basically thought that a novella was between 17,500 words and 30,000-40,000 words. Above that was technically a novel but 60,000 words was the minimum to shoot for, unless you are really good. (Thus the Bridges of Madison Country testament)

My first novel is about 85,000 or so. Second topped around 93,000. . . Good range. You don't want to leave the publisher wanting or wondering if the story will ever end. I think it is tough to create a novel, a real bona fide genuine article, that is under 50k. As Uncle Jim might say, the chess game of plot needs time to work into the endphase, and sometimes that takes some time.

My first novel started on a lark. I thought it was going to be a short story. I got to 20,000 words and had some people read it. They said it wasn't done, they wanted more. Two months later it was 95,000 words and I couldn't believe it. (Classic example of taking 4 months to write a novel then 3 years to edit the damned thing)

[jchines]

Most of the big SF/F publishers will be looking for something roughly 80K - 120K. My publisher (DAW) states in their guidelines that they rarely publish anything under 80,000 words.

My first two books were 97,000 and 93,000 words, for what it's worth.

Mostly, I'd emphasize what has already been said: research the publishers' guidelines.

[kristin724]

I was thinking of submitting my 50k Vampire Novel to Blindside Publishing. I think anywhere today if a novel is under 70k and not signed by a big publishing house it will always take a lot of work on the author's part regarding promotion and marketing and building a fandom.

Truthfully I'm wondering about serializing this one. There are a few quality serialing sites out there.

[Jamesaritchie]

They may not be all that major and agree with you as to what a novella is but 40k is a novella for Echelon press, Bywater Books, Blindside Publishing, Silks Vault, Cobblestone Press, etc

Only if they want to use the word "novella" instead of "novel." If any of these publishers decide to stick the word "novel" on the cover, then the book becomes a novel.

And marketing some as a novella is just not a bright move. Readers do not like to pay for something called a "novella." They don't feel as if they're getting their money's worth.

40K is a novel, whatever these publishers call it, and they'd be smarter to label them as such. It helps sales tremendously.

[scarletpeaches]

Get it up...

Filth, I tells ya! Filth!

Anyhoo...Just write really big, it fills out more pages.:D

[blackbird]

I guess I'm out of the loop, but I am confused and don't understand what these terms you all are throwing around (40K, 75K, 100K, etc) mean in terms of book length. How do these terms translate in terms of numerical page lengths or word counts? Forgive my ignorance, but I'm curious and would like to know.

[Birol]

Page length doesn't matter, Blackbird. The numbers they are using are wordcounts. 'K' is the abbreviation for 'kilo' and means 'one thousand'. So, 40K refers to a novel or WIP that is 40,000 words long.

[blackbird]

Page length doesn't matter, Blackbird. The numbers they are using are wordcounts. 'K' is the abbreviation for 'kilo' and means 'one thousand'. So, 40K refers to a novel or WIP that is 40,000 words long.

Thanks!!!

[maestrowork]

To further what Birol said, page count means nothing to agents and publishers because that could change depending on layout, font size, page size, etc. But word count is universal. If you know the word count of a ms, you can figure out the rest.