Stephen J. Rivelle's contact info [Archive] - Absolute Write Water Cooler

dpaterso

04-26-2006, 05:14 PM

Yeah unfortunately it's the same guy, Stephen J. Rivele - search for his name on Google and you get a bundle of results including his filmography. Short but impressive, and becoming more so.

I'm gonna make a big assumption here, that you didn't obtain the screen rights before you wrote the adaptation? It's great that the novel inspired you, and adapting it sounds like quite a feat, but let's be real, if the author wanted it adapted then he'd probably do it himself, right?

So I guess, um, maybe there's no harm in asking, if you can find author's contact info.. but be prepared for the worst, which is that you'll never be allowed to show that script to anyone, ever. Tho' to be perfectly honest with you, I wouldn't even ask. If any of my assumptions above are wrong, so sorry.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57)
Stop reading this and get some writing done instead.

Joe Unidos

04-26-2006, 06:44 PM

I'll just echo dpat's "concern" and maybe suggest scouring all the resources available for free on the internet about the business side of screenwriting, because you do seem to be laboring under a few, shall we say, misapprehensions about that side of it.

Arden

04-26-2006, 07:42 PM

This has got to be a joke post, right?

It had me going there for a moment...

Please tell me this is a joke...

Maryn

04-27-2006, 02:18 AM

Arden

04-27-2006, 02:56 AM

I don't know about the screenwriters here, but the ones at my lurk-only site include a steady stream of new arrivals who didn't realize they're not free to adapt someone else's work.

I suppose if nothing else, it's both good practice and a jolting trip to the reality of the business.

Oh, my gosh -- that seems so odd to me... I guess I must have grown up at a time when the evils of plagiarism was pounded into one as forcefully as "eat your vegetables". I can understand the impulse that prompts the mistake -- "gee, I can adapt this!" but to actually sit down for the time it takes to write a full length screenplay is too sad. Wasted time, wasted pages, wasted creativity. And, what's worse, it can make someone (the owner of the copyright) terribly angry... Nobody is flattered by having their work stolen just like nobody's flattered by the attentions of a stalker.

Ya gotta blame the educational system if youngsters don't know this...

Sheesh, Maryn, you learn something new every dayhttp://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Mac H.

04-27-2006, 04:31 AM

Oh, my gosh -- that seems so odd to me... I guess I must have grown up at a time when the evils of plagiarism was pounded into one as forcefully as "eat your vegetables".
C'mon we are not talking about plagiarism here. Remember 'plagiarism' is simply claiming someone else's work as your own - and 'Drama Writer' certainly isn't doing that. 'Drama Writer' wants to contact the original author, presumably to obtain permission.

Sure, you could argue that it was a waste of time (or a risk) to spend a lot of time and effort adapting it before getting permission, but they are trying to get it now. The technique has been successful for some - the original writer of 'Alien .v. Predator' didn't have permission for his spec script (from either owner!), but it was all worked out before the film was made. A risk? Sure. Plagiarism? Of course not! (And yes, the original screenwriter wrote a nice public letter on the web apologising for the quality of the final movie.)

---
To get back to what (may be) the original problem: If you want to get permission, call the publisher's rights & acquisitions department. Some googling and phone calls will give you the number. They'll send you details of his agent.

My experience has been to send a few emails to the publisher, get ignored, then phone a few weeks later to get results.

I ended up repeating the process with the literary agent to get the author's address (the agency didn't represent the author anymore - and hadn't for about 40 years). And until I can track down the author's heirs, I've certainly toyed with adapting bits of it - and I certainly wouldn't consider myself a plagiarist.

Good luck,

Mac.
(PS: Yes, as Derek point out, the likely result is a screenplay that can't be sold, put in competitions, or really shown to anyone outside your family. Still, it was probably great practise, and since it was unlikely that someone's first screenplay would sell anyway, you might as well not waste an original storyline on it !)

xhouseboy

04-27-2006, 04:50 AM

If nothing else Drama Writer, it will have been good experience for you.

A company I worked for a few years back wanted to adapt an original work. The author was deceased, so we had to go through his estate to purchase a renewable option on an annual basis. There are certain procedures one has to follow in matters like this.

If this was a different author, less well known (and not a screenwriter himself), who knows, he may have been receptive to your advances. But I doubt that you'll get very far in this instance.

Although I agree with Mac - it's not plagiarism, nothing like it.

It's simply a lack of experience mixed with a fair dollop of enthusiasm. Nothing wrong with that.

Drama Writer

04-27-2006, 05:56 AM

...and appreciate them all mightily.

This is my first screenplay polished, so more than anything it is just practice, though I have a second one that's perhaps weeks away from a finished first draft (which is original!) ;)

For all intents and purposes, I emailed the publisher last night. This was the reply:

Many thanks for getting in touch, this sounds excellent.

If you would be kind enough to send the screenplay to me, either electronically, or at the postal address below, I will pass it on.

All best wishes

So who knows. All I would like to do in the end is send it to Rivelle, so he can have a look at it and have a bit of a laugh. Perhaps he'd give me advice for the future, who knows?

I realize that Rivelle is such an accomplished writer, and have laid out a daunting task for myself. I didn't actually know he was a screenwriter until after the rough draft. hahaha.

Life's funny that way. Oh well.

Any other advice is welcome!

BottomlessCup

04-27-2006, 06:01 AM

For all intents and purposes, I emailed the publisher last night.

Just curious, but what does "for all intents and purposes" mean in this sentence?

Drama Writer

04-27-2006, 06:31 AM

'For all intents and purposes' in that sentence refer to being able to send Stephen J. Rivelle a copy of the script.

Thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps I should have read that over more carefully...

dpaterso

04-27-2006, 11:22 AM

Fingers crossed, DW, but as said above, be ready for disappointment. And while you're waiting for a reply from whoever you sent the script to, keep working on your next script... and your next script... Good luck.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57)
Stop reading this and get some writing done instead.

Joe Unidos

04-27-2006, 07:08 PM

If you want to be technical, sure, it's not plagarism. It's copyright violation, which --unlike plagarism-- is an actual crime.

xhouseboy

04-27-2006, 08:19 PM

Copyright law is civil law. You would get sued, not charged with a crime.

This was a genuine mistake. Fan fiction, if you will. I'd hazard a guess that the author intended showing it to no one but the writer (or his representatives) of the original work.

Joe Unidos

04-27-2006, 08:30 PM

Copyright law is civil law. You would get sued, not charged with a crime.

True enough, in this case --although your generalization that copyright law is only civil is very much in error. Criminal copyright violation is very much part of the law.

xhouseboy

04-27-2006, 09:31 PM

If you want to be technical, sure, it's not plagiarism. It's copyright violation, which -- unlike plagiarism -- is an actual crime.

True enough, in this case --although your generalization that copyright law is only civil is very much in error. Criminal copyright violation is very much part of the law.

But not in this case. Although your first post gave the general impression that it might be regarded as such.

Perhaps you were loosely referring to the following rough example. IMO, this has no real bearing on Drama Writer's situation.

"Deliberate copyright infringement may be a criminal offence. If the copyright infringement is on a larger scale where pirate or counterfeit copies of CD's are circulating, then it is worth informing the police..... They can then decide whether action by them, including possible prosecution, is justified."

Don't get me wrong, I wish it was a criminal offence in some cases. I've worked alongside copyright organisations attempting to bring wrongdoers to admit to their indiscretions. A few of them should be behind bars, but it will never happen. It's a game of who blinks first, and who's got the deepest pockets. If the plaintiff has a cast-iron case and has the funds to go all the way, settlement is usually reached on the court steps. But the offendors rely on the plaintiff's lack of funds to go the distance, and as a result almost always get away with it.

Joe Unidos

04-27-2006, 10:13 PM

I hear you, xhouseboy --my original post was admittedly over-simplified for effect.

My larger point being that, while clearly any legal recourse in this example is highly unlikely, there is often a misperception among new writers that such an undertaking is a bold "go-getter" move and in some perverse way admirable, as opposed to something that is both frowned upon and arguably a violation of the civil code. That's all.

People taking freedoms like that with other people's (intellectual) property rubs me the wrong way. I grate at the (often unspoken) presumption that there exists for them some "right" to adapt the material, often followed up by a foolish indignation that they --the person who took what wasn't their's-- is in some way the victim when they are told, "no, you can't copyright this, no you can't do anything with this, etc." It's the same as the well-meaning, supportive folks will tell a writer under these circumstances that even if nothing comes of it, at least they have a writing sample. They don't.

I dunno. it's a personal pet peeve of mine that I tend to blow out of proportion.

:Soapbox:

xhouseboy

04-27-2006, 11:09 PM

Your'e dead right, Joe.

And for what it's worth, it festers with me, too.

IP is like any other property. A burglar violates one's home and property, s/he pays the price if caught.

Someone profits from another's IP, and in a lot of cases they get away with it.

They also should pay the price if real intent can be established. Sadly, it very rarely pans out that way.

WritingFool

04-28-2006, 02:23 PM

Okay, just wondering how this post turned from one writer asking for help to find contact info, and turning into a full out debate over copyright infringement.

Hes not doing anything wrong here. Hes not trying to submit it to anyone but the original author. So whats all the hub-bub about?
Hes got a tug, lets all help him reel this baby in.

Hey drama..dont know if its worth anything, but since youve already submitted it to his people, I wonder if it would be a terrible idea to take the extremely passive role right now, and offer up a collaboration with the original author.

Youve labored at this, and its off his original work, so using a reverse psychology approach to get what you want. Approaching him with the, "assist me in portraying your work as accurately as you want it" might flatter his ego some if you do meet some resistance. Dont let them shue you away now.

You got his attention, as theyre asking for the screenplay. If they like it, great..youll proceed to the next step.
The simple fact that they asked for your work means they will entertain the "right" work.
Just like an employer who looked at your resume and calls you in for an interview. Youve peeked their interest, so now its your job to NOT TAKE NO for an answer.

Whatever you have to do, alter it chop it or start again, just step aside and ride this pony, and dont let it fall into their hands so they can get some other writer to come in and adapt it.
THIS IS YOUR BABY TO GIVE AWAY....So ride it and show you are only out to give the best possible adaptation of his work...and you want his input. Flattery goes along way with the already successful.

This might be alittle redundant to state the obvious, but since the post took a turn off course I just want to keep it on track. See what happens when you mix up alot of writers in one place. AND, wanted to congradulate you on making it this far, and just reminding you, youve got your foot in the door, dont let them shut it without letting you in, okay!

Go get em!
Be a Rhino.
A smart Rhino!

Im rooting for the underdog here!!!!!!!!! GO DRAMA!!!!!!

and remember
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ R U F U S R O C K S ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Chesher Cat

04-28-2006, 03:00 PM

I don't believe it's copyright infringement unless he sells it.

Anyone can adapt another writer's work for practice. And there's no harm in showing it as a sample, providing you say it's an adaptation and credit the original writer. You just can't sell it. Another example, film companies use the music from other movies on their trailers - which they can do because it's a promotional piece and not for sale.

So, there's no monetary gain possible for DW, unless the author falls in love with the adaptation and lets him run with it. Which is highly unlikely, but....who knows?

Joe Unidos

04-28-2006, 06:32 PM

I don't believe it's copyright infringement unless he sells it.

Not trying to be a dick, but your belief is wrong, and is the common misconception that fuels the encouragement of this type of infringement.

While most likely no one would take legal action until it is sold, it is infringement the moment it is written. You cannot prepare a derivative work without the copyright owner's permission (unless the work has gone into the public domain). In other words, you cannot write nor exploit a screenplay based on someone else's novel unless you have obtained from them the rights. You cannot make a derivative work. Consequently, the work, if unauthorized, is copyright infringement.

icerose

04-28-2006, 09:56 PM

Joe is completely right. That's like saying "I'll adapt this record into a cd and then acquire permissions."

All writers, but super careful of this. It is not suggested, even if drama is somehow successful with it.

Drama, if they love it and use it, great, but just beware that they have every right to stomp it down. I would not suggest being pushy or even making any offers at this point, sit back and see what they have to say.

The vast majority of sequels and adaptions are done on assignment from a production studio. Hardly any are done because an author just did it then worried about legalities. As Mac pointed out the writer of AVP could have been in serious trouble, but because he did a good enough job and worked out with both creators then he ended up being okay, but until they signed the dotted line, he was still in copyright violation.

This is a serious matter and it could ruin writer's careers if they take liberties they do not have, which is why the gravity of the posts exist.

It is also the same for writing books that are part of series. Like the Star Wars series and the Star Trek and the Conan Series. Every one of those books not written by the original author had to first be approved by that author and rights and permissions had to be obtained before it could be printed.

It's like writing your own Harry Potter book. You would need JK Rowlings permission to use her characters, settings, and everything else.

Good luck Drama, but please everyone be aware of the dangers that are involved in going this route.

Joe Unidos

04-28-2006, 10:06 PM

Exactly. It's like stealing a car --it doesn't suddenly become a crime only when you try to sell the car that you've stolen. Intellectual property is still property.

Maryn

04-29-2006, 02:39 AM

I think virtually all the replies here would echo Joe's if this question were posed at the Writing Novels board here at AW.

Looking at humans with my usual jaundiced view, it's even possible that they asked for a copy of the script the better to sue you with. They can, of course, sue you for more than you'll earn in your entire life, and regardless of the outcome, that lawsuit would very probably sound the death knell on your screenwriting career.

Maryn, who would not take that risk

icerose

04-29-2006, 02:46 AM

Actually the fine per offence is up to $250,000 and up to 25 years in prison I believe. I will have to read the FBI warning again to be certain.

Watch any movie and see for yourself, the same implications of copying, messing around with and so on and so forth with videos is the same for writing.

Mac H.

04-29-2006, 09:01 AM

They can, of course, sue you for more than you'll earn in your entire life, and regardless of the outcome, that lawsuit would very probably sound the death knell on your screenwriting career.Aw c'mon, this strict interpetation seems inane.

Consider my example:

1. I am trying to contact the copyright owners of a story.
2. Until I can contact them, I am making notes as to how I would adapt it to a screenplay.
While these notes are NOT being published, distributed etc, the ARE adapting the story.

Are you honestly saying that they can sue me for 'more than I'll earn in my entire life' (Lets say a couple of million dollars) when their has been ZERO loss to them? All I am doing is making notes (perhaps sometimes in script form) to be prepared for the day when I CAN get permission. (Or copyright expires on their work - whichever happens first) No-one has seen my notes on the 'adaption' (they may one day) and so there is no way that they can claim it is being 'published'.

If the work being described by the original poster is like this, then there is no plausible way that Rivelle will be able to sue them for 2 million dollars, when there has been zero publication.

No, I'm not a lawyer.

Mac

icerose

04-29-2006, 09:31 AM

Mac,

You are making notes, not adapting it. Thats like trying to get someone in trouble for writing a book report. Your senario of being sued is ludicrous.

What happened here though is that an original novel was adapted into a full script, without any kind of permission. There are not simply notes. And you can get sued/prosecuted for copyright infringement even if there was no profit gain on your part, or loss on their part. Read the FBI warning at the beginning of movies, it will give you a good idea.

It goes the same for artists, musicians, writers, producers, everyone. You cannot infringe on other's copyrights without setting yourself up for possible recourse. This recourse rarely happens especially when writers are concerned, however it is a possibility and new authors need to be very aware that it is against the law, it is against ethics, and it is wrong.

PLEASE OBTAIN PERMISSIONS BEFORE USING OR WORKING OFF OR ADAPTING ANY WORKS.

Mac H.

04-29-2006, 10:33 AM

Icerose,

Yes - I agree the my scenario of being sued is ludicrous. That was my point.
In my mind, either they are both violations or neither.

Both are adaptations which are not published - and are only provided to the copyright holder with a view to coming to a business arrangement.

Just as a script is only stepping stone to a movie, notes with partial adaptions is a stepping stone to a script. The fact that the notes only adapt segments of the story is irrelevant - adapting a SEGMENT of a story is just as much a violation as adapting the ENTIRE story.

Logically it would seem that either they are both violations or neither are. (Yes, I realise I am not a lawyer and that logic has little to do with the law)

I appreciate that based on what you are reading at the ends of films you are getting the impression that 'DramaWriter' may be sued for millions for her violation - but actual case law does NOT support that.

Even in blatant cases with trials, there has simply been court costs of, say, $8000 and damages awarded. That is hardly 'more than someone would earn in a lifetime'. Remember, this is NOT piracy we are talking about - it is preparing a derivative work. When you talk about what penalties can be expected you must limit your searches to cases involving unauthorised derivative works.

If you are interested in similar situations, there are plenty of them. I have already mentioned the 'Alien .v. Predator' script, but if you want one that ended acrimoniously between the derivative-writer & original copyright holder, check out "Anderson .v. Stallone", where Anderson created a derivative work (a sequel to 'Rocky') and presented it to Stallone's business partners as spec script.

There was NO indication that Stallone's lawyers had the basis to sue Anderson for simply preparing a derivative work and presenting it them as a business proposal.

I can see we will have to simply just disagree here. But I must strongly disagree that it is 'against ethics, and it is wrong' to prepare a derivative work for the express purpose of presenting it to the original copyright holder as business proposal.

Good luck,

Mac
(PS: I'm quite willing to concede that I may be wrong on the legal aspects - I tried to PM Jaws to get his input (and thus some real the facts). However Jaws seems to have had to good sense to disable PMs from his profile....)

dpaterso

04-29-2006, 11:33 AM

What say we agree that using someone else's material without permission is a Bad Thing and leave it at that. There are so many "But what ifs..." that trying to cover all hypothetical circumstances is pointless. For example, writing a TV script for a current show, so you can submit this to the show's producers as a writing sample.

I won't lock the thread, that would be rude considering there's been no bad attitute or misbehavior from anyone, but methinks what's needed to be said has been said (and thanks everyone for contributing).

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57)
Stop reading this and get some writing done instead.

Drama Writer

04-29-2006, 07:27 PM

for your input. It took my heart through hills and valleys. haha

I understand now thanks to you all that I will not attempt this type of work in the future. I was over-zealous to begin with. I can only pray that I will not be sued by Rivelle. Geez, what a mess.

Nonetheless, I've contacted a producer who knows him, and said he'd pass it on to Rivelle. Was that a good idea, with sidestepping the publisher?

All I want is for Mr. Rivelle to read it and get a chuckle. That's it. I don't want to sell it.

Was this a bad idea to pass it to this producer?

I'll ask you, the experts.

icerose

04-29-2006, 09:37 PM

Most likely you would not get sued, they rarely pursue these kinds of things unless someone is making a profit or intend on making a profit.

If the publisher has requested it, I personally would have sent it to them. Their letter does not contain anything threatening or malicious and about the worst they would probably do to you is say they have chosen not to use it and ask you not to use it for anything.

Drama Writer

04-30-2006, 06:20 AM

I appreciate you pointing that out.

I had used his name Rivele on the title page of my rip-off. I had to double check. I'll make sure not to make the same mistake again.

Thanks for the info. I'll try and track him down and apologize.

WritingFool

05-06-2006, 11:52 AM

Good luck to you Drama.
Its sad cause every step you take nowadays seems to be a bad one.

Is the glass half empty or half full?
You wrote an adaptation that may or may not have repercussions to it, that others may or may not have done themselves. BUT you got it off your chest.

Whats that saying....'free advice usually isnt worth the price anyway'
Go from your gut. Everyone always complains about how doors are always hard to open...hard to break into the biz..
Others do what they have to.

I commend you on your effort, and so long as you received pleasure in your writing and submitting, thats all that really matters here. Do it again..if youre heart tells you to. If youre writing is good, youd be surprised what you can get away with. If it aint, at least your trying.

If every person listened to all those voices that said take the safe road, we would never have people doing extra ordinary things.
So good luck to you..and everyone that actually digs deep and takes a chance. It was harmless and anyone can see it. Anyone with eyes.

After a few shots at it...hopefully youll strike your mark.
No guts no glory!!!!!!

faranj

05-11-2010, 04:27 PM

Anyone may contact me through my blog.

S Rivele

Maryn

05-11-2010, 05:49 PM

Did the OP ever contact you with his screenplay adapted from your novel? If so, what was your reaction?

It will be four years tomorrow since he posted here at AbsoluteWrite, so we have no idea.

Maryn, curious

Plot Device

05-11-2010, 08:10 PM

Is there a link to your blog??

And do you always spell your last name with only one "L" ??

::ETA::

I guess you do! :)

http://srivele.blogspot.com/

.

Jake G

05-11-2010, 09:52 PM

Personally, I don't care much about the legal ramifications of someone adapting another person's work without obtaining the rights. I do believe, however, that it is quite the waste of time. Then again, how else do you as an unsolicited/unagented writer get the attention of an author whose book you want to adapt? Why, you send them a first act of the adaptation, showing that you know the source material.

A quick anecdote about the business (may it be incorrect or not). I just heard this story recently and forgot the names, so bear with me.

A young, upcoming college graduate wanted to make his way up the Hollywood chain to become a studio executive. The first job he received was work in the mail room. Not a horrible job, definitely a respectable start. But from the beginning, he realized he was being kept in the dark in terms of the information and the deals passing through Hollywood. He wanted to learn more about what was going on so he could prepare himself necessary (to learn what was selling, what was buying, who the studios saw as "hot" property, etc.). So, he brought in a steamer to the mail room. Every letter addressed in or out of the place he steamed open, read it, and sealed it back up. Soon, his information helped him, and he was able to give insights into deals rarely being talked about. He even told his boss how he was able to help out the company. Years later, the boss said, "In any other business, his actions were mail fraud, punishable by hefty fines and possible jail times. But in this business, his actions were handsomely rewarded."

Just something to think about.