View Full Version : Favorite Historical Novels page 2
This first post was salvaged after there was a problem with the boards in May/June 2006. Page 1 of this thread is lost, but there are a lot of good historical novels listed in what was salvaged and came after.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbidden Snowflake
I kind of figured with your name, that you must be a fan. And Jamie Fraser: God!
Well, let's add C. ZS. Forester (the Hornblower novels about the British navy in the Napoleonic Wars), and who doulc forget the scoundrel/hero Flashman from the prolific pen of George MacDonald Fraser.
Regards,
Scott
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Well, let's add C. S. Forester (the Hornblower novels about the British navy in the Napoleonic Wars), and who doulc forget the scoundrel/hero Flashman from the prolific pen of George MacDonald Fraser.
Regards,
Scott
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The Grapes of Wrath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumpfoot
The Grapes of Wrath
Its a marvelous novel beyond doubt -- I would point out that Faulkner wrote it when it was contemporary, not historical.
Regards,
Scott
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Er, sorry about all this but...
John Steinbeck wrote 'Grapes of Wrath' and it was a mainstream/contemporary novel.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdr
John Steinbeck wrote 'Grapes of Wrath' and it was a mainstream/contemporary novel.
That's what I said, too.
Regards,
Scott
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True, The Grapes of Wrath was a contemporary novel when it was written. But almost seventy years have passed since it's publication Thats twice my age, so to me it is NOW an historical novel. And really always has been to me since these were conditions that existed thirty plus years before I was born. So that brings up an interesting question, can a contemporary novel read by generations decades or even centuries further along in the stream of time be considered historical? Because one who reads The grapes of wrath now would not see it as contemporary.
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Ah.
That's what I said, too.
Nope, you said Faulkner.
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stumpfoot - I thought about asking that same question last night. There are a lot of novels that were contemporary when they were written but time has elapsed so they are no longer contemporary - how are those classified (The Bridge of San Luis Rey, Crime and Punishment, Mainstreet, The Old Man and the Sea, Jane Eyre, The Scarlet Pimpernel (written a bit after the fact), A Tale of Two Cities, And Quiet Flows the Don, etc. etc.) Thoughts everyone - what are these books now? Puma
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They are!
'The Scarlet Pimpernel' series were written as historical novels.
'A Tale of Two Cities', written over sixty years after the French Revolution, is regarded as one too. Like Alexander Dumas's work is historical.
The definition for historical novels is that they are usually written fifty years after the events in the novel or written by someone who was not alive at the time of the event.
I think you'll find that historical novels include history as a 'character' and integral part of the plot and are therefore different from mainstream novels. So a mainstream novel written in the 1930s is not and cannot be called a historical novel although it might incidentally give the reader a taste of the 1930s today.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdr
That's what I said, too.
Nope, you said Faulkner.
Oops~ I was thinking of both since they are rough contemporaries.
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"Shogun" is on pretty shaky historical/cultural ground--very entertaining but not terribly accurate.
I liked "The King Must Die", "The Bull From The Sea" and Lady Stewart's Merlin series... Then again, I'm not Greek or British.
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Shogun
Did James Clavell claim he was fictionalising actual history as it was when he wrote Shogun?
I don't know and it's six years since I read the book.
Certainly the rise of Takagawa, the real first shogun of Japan, is fact, and how he became the first shogun is an appallingly brilliant display of a fierce and cunning mind. He showed such diabolical use of foresight, understanding opponents and therefore cutting the ground from under their feet, of using people to make things happen because he knew how they would react.
That is fact.
Next month I will go to the celebration of the 1572 battle site near me when Takagawa not only defeated his enemy but chased them to the a bridge he'd made over the valley, a bridge designed to collapse and dump them all on the rocks several hundred feet below.
He was the first Japanese lord to kill all his enemies not just the leaders and is remembered as such, so my students tell me.
Clavell's Shogun character was as diabolically clever as the real one! And he does a good job of making the reader understand the whys as well as the whats of the making of the shogunate. But it's fiction.
As for cultural discrepancies, I'm not Japanese so I don't know, but much of what he wrote fits what I have seen and heard as I trek round museums and battle sites and castles. I'm in the heart of his area of Japan so have seen and been told a lot.
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pdr - you mentioned the Scarlet Pimpernel "series". I'm only aware of one book by that title written by Baroness Orczy and published in 1905 (so, yes, it was definitely written as historical fiction). Is that what you were referring to or was there another series you were thinking about? Puma
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The Winthrop Woman (about a Puritan woman in the early 17th century who married into the Winthrop family) by Anya Seton.
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Not sure.
'The Scarlet Pimpernel'
Sorry, puma, I read the book when I was twelve. I do remember that there were some short stories and a couple of novels.
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Did James Clavell claim he was fictionalising actual history as it was when he wrote Shogun?
Hi, PDR:
I don't think that history played as big a role in "Shogun" as did the love story, and the depiction of Japanese and Western cultures as alien to each other.
It worked.
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I started this thread (page 1 is lost) with my favorite historical novel. I'm going to recap my favorites and anyone else who was on page 1 will hopefully put their favorites back on too.
My all time favorite historical fiction novel is Captain from Castille by Samuel Shellabarger. I also like everything else Shellabarger wrote (Prince of Foxes, Lord Chesterfield and His World, etc.). He did an excellent job of researching.
In second place for favorite historical authors is Rafael Sabatini - Captain Blood, Scarmouche, The Sea Hawk (obviously I'm a romantic).
I haven't read much historical fiction in the last thirty years but I will add The Earth Abideth (19th century Ohio) written by George Dell to my list. Puma
stumpfoot
07-05-2006, 03:07 PM
James alexander Thom. Panther in the sky and longknife.
Evaine
07-05-2006, 09:40 PM
Rafael Sabatini was great fun, but my personal favourite now is Sharon Penman, who wrote The Sunne in Splendour, about Richard III, and a fantastically good trilogy about the Welsh princes, starting with Here Be Dragons, then Falls the Shadow, which includes Simon de Montfort, and finishing with The Reckoning.
I knew the history before I started reading the Reckoning. I'd even done guided tours of a castle in North Wales (Caergwrle) telling people about the history - but I still spent the last 200 pages of The Reckoning weeping buckets.
Edward I is the historical character I most despise.
If you want to get a taste of good historicals you really ought to read these people.
Anything by:
Rosemary Sutcliffe,
Dorothy Dunnet,
Georgette Heyer,
Kelly Greenwood,
Michael Pearce,
Ellis Peters,
Mary Renault,
Anne Perry,
Lindsay Davies,
Bernard Cornwall's Sharpe series,
Robert Graves 'I, Claudius' and 'Claudius the God'.
rekirts
07-07-2006, 07:44 PM
I love Rosemary Sutcliffe and Georgette Heyer. I would like to add Patrick O'Brian to the list for his Captain Aubrey/Dr. Maturin series of books.
Evaine
07-08-2006, 02:22 AM
I grew up on Rosemary Sutcliff, and moved on to Kipling, who was her inspiration for the way she portrayed the Romans.
Geoffrey Trease was also a brilliant children's author of historical novels - Cue for Treason is set in a Shakespearean period actor's troupe, and the Hills of Varna is about a Renaissance boy and girl (he often used a boy/girl pairing as the main characters) who travel to a remote monastery in search of ancient manuscripts.
I've recently discovered Dorothy Dunnett's Crawford of Lymond series, which has inspired me to go out looking for the rest of them - and it's fascinating to read Antonia Fraser's history book Mary, Queen of Scots, in parallel, because Dorothy Dunnett managed to remain accurate to the history while weaving a fictional story of some complexity around the facts - and managed to get everyone in the right place at the right time for an exciting story! She must have had charts covering whole walls to get it right!
Evaine, I notice that you're a pretty new member. It looks like you're very interested in British history. I haven't responded to your posts yet because I don't have any comments on the books you've mentioned (my reading British history was too long ago for anything to pop out in my memory). It is a fascinating subject. You're probably right about covering walls with charts of inter-relationships; I know that for the historical novel I've been working on I had pages (and an Excel spreadsheet) to show all the characters and how they were related.
By the way, nice to have you on the boards. Puma
Evaine
07-09-2006, 01:35 AM
Thanks for the welcome, Puma.
I actually have a degree in archaeology, and I also do historical re-enactment - I'm a 13thC Welsh mercenary.
And it all started with authors like Rosemary Sutcliff, Geoffrey Trease, Henry Treece (a man who has never been bettered as far as Vikings are concerned), and an inspirational teacher who spent her school holidays walking along Hadrian's Wall, or looking for stone hand axes in the Lake District.
So, yes, British history is definitely my thing.
rekirts
07-14-2006, 07:45 PM
Evaine, British history is my thing, too, although it's a hobby not a vocation. We don't have any reenactment groups here but friends of mine run a medieval society and every year at their feast I get to entertain--so I guess that makes me a minstrel.
I got to explore a bit of Hadrian's Wall on two trips to Britain when I was 12 and 18 years old. I just wish I could be as interested in Canadian history because I wouldn't have to travel so far to see historical sites.:tongue
Anyway, to get back on topic (sorry for the digression), I think my post mentioning Elizabeth George Speare was vaporized. Her YA novels, The Witch of Blackbird Pond and Calico Captive are a great read. The first one takes place in the early U.S. and the second one in the U.S. and Quebec.
Then read good children's literature about the period.
Geoffrey and Henry Treece,
Roland Welch,
Cynthia Harnet,
Barbara Willard's Lark and Laurel series.
Rosemary Sutcliffe if she's been put in the children's section
donroc
09-09-2007, 11:28 PM
Costain (damn the critics), Sabatini, Shellabarger, Edson Marshall, the American Winston Churchill, Renault, Early Frank Yerby, Sienkewicz (sp?), Dorothy Dunnett --
BrianTubbs
09-09-2007, 11:49 PM
One of the best historical novels I've read (if not the best) is The Killer Angels by Michael Shaara. It of course won the Pulitzer.
I also have enjoyed all of his son Jeff's books, including Gods and Generals, Gone for Soldiers, Rise to Rebellion, Glorious Cause, etc.
Jeff is more pop fiction, whereas his late father more was more literary.
girlyswot
09-10-2007, 12:12 AM
Katherine, by Anya Seton. About Katherine Swynford sometime wife of John of Gaunt.
Also Antonia Forest's two books set in Shakespeare's theatre company, 'The Player's Boy' and 'The Players and the Rebels' are fantastic (as indeed are her twentieth century stories).
Re. Georgette Heyer and a propos the discussion elsewhere about the distinction between historical novels and historical romance, it would be true that most of her books fall into the latter category but there are certainly some in the former category. Royal Escape (about Charles II), My Lord John, The Spanish Bride, The Conqueror and one or two others are much more serious historical works rather than romances.
Doogs
09-10-2007, 12:22 AM
One of the best historical novels I've read (if not the best) is The Killer Angels by Michael Shaara. It of course won the Pulitzer.
I also have enjoyed all of his son Jeff's books, including Gods and Generals, Gone for Soldiers, Rise to Rebellion, Glorious Cause, etc.
Jeff is more pop fiction, whereas his late father more was more literary.
Agreed. Though I didn't much care for Jeff's Glorious Cause, I think Gone for Soldiers and Rise to Rebellion were both quite well done. To the Last Man, his novel of the American experience in WWI, was a good read as well, though the abrupt jump between one story and another halfway through was jarring.
Diviner
09-10-2007, 12:25 AM
I started this thread (page 1 is lost) with my favorite historical novel. I'm going to recap my favorites and anyone else who was on page 1 will hopefully put their favorites back on too.
My all time favorite historical fiction novel is Captain from Castille by Samuel Shellabarger. I also like everything else Shellabarger wrote (Prince of Foxes, Lord Chesterfield and His World, etc.). He did an excellent job of researching.
In second place for favorite historical authors is Rafael Sabatini - Captain Blood, Scarmouche, The Sea Hawk (obviously I'm a romantic).
I haven't read much historical fiction in the last thirty years but I will add The Earth Abideth (19th century Ohio) written by George Dell to my list. Puma
Hey, romantic, what about Ivanhoe and The Count of Monte Cristo? Does it count as historical if it was more or less contemporary when written (like the latter and Jane Austen's work) but so long ago to be historical?
Doogs
09-10-2007, 12:34 AM
Colleen McCullough has a special place in my heart. I was already interested in Rome when I read her Caesar...but after reading that and the preceding books over the next month, I was hooked.
Sharon Kay Penman, definitely. The Sunne in Splendour and Here Be Dragons are two of the best books I've ever read.
Steven Pressfield. Gates of Fire (about the Battle of Thermopylae) and Tides of War (Peloponnesian War) are gritty, fantastic reads. Haven't cared as much for his more recent stuff, though.
Lew Wallace. If you haven't read Ben-Hur, you owe it to yourself to do so. I grew up watching the Chuck Heston version with my parents every Easter, but the book is fantastic. Not exactly accurate, of course.
Jack Whyte. His Camulod Chronicles blur the line, presenting a plausible unfolding of the Arthurian legend in the years following Rome's pullout from Britain.
Diviner
09-10-2007, 12:34 AM
Rafael Sabatini was great fun, but my personal favourite now is Sharon Penman, who wrote The Sunne in Splendour, about Richard III, and a fantastically good trilogy about the Welsh princes, starting with Here Be Dragons, then Falls the Shadow, which includes Simon de Montfort, and finishing with The Reckoning.
I knew the history before I started reading the Reckoning. I'd even done guided tours of a castle in North Wales (Caergwrle) telling people about the history - but I still spent the last 200 pages of The Reckoning weeping buckets.
Edward I is the historical character I most despise.
I'm with you here, all the way, but I've never been west of Bath. Penman rules!
Next best for me is Bernard Cornwell, but when I was young, I loved Mary Renault and Georgette Heyer, whom I find rather light these days. sometimes light is just what I want.
Doogs
09-10-2007, 12:35 AM
Hey, romantic, what about Ivanhoe and The Count of Monte Cristo? Does it count as historical if it was more or less contemporary when written (like the latter and Jane Austen's work) but so long ago to be historical?
That's an interesting question.
Regardless of the answer, Monte Cristo was brilliant.
Doogs
09-10-2007, 12:42 AM
Almost forgot...
Robert Harris. I read Pompeii ahead of a trip to Italy in 2005. The details of the eruption were great, and whenever Vesuvius was in play, I couldn't put it down. But the human element was terrible. I'd kind of written him off, and then he came out with Imperium last year. It's a novel about Cicero's early career, full of legal and political wrangling, which can be difficult to make exciting. But he pulled if off. It reads fast, and he captures the characters and the time exactly.
Wow! It's really interesting to see this old thread rejuvenated. Seems like ancient history - one of the threads that was partly lost in the problem last summer. Good to see it back. Puma
julie thorpe
09-10-2007, 12:47 AM
Mary Stewart's Merlin series - may not fit into a strictly historical category maybe, but wonderful writing.
I know Rosemary Sutcliffe was diffident about her Tudor period novels - the Armourer's House, and The Queen Elizabeth Story - but they were the first historicals I read as a child and I loved them.
These days, I'm currently enjoying Lindsey Davis' Marcus Didius Falco books, and Elizabeth Peters' Amelia Peabody series. All very lighthearted, deliciously witty, well-written and thoroughly enjoyable reads.
DeleyanLee
09-10-2007, 12:48 AM
For the person who didn't know that the Baroness wrote an entire series involving the League of the Scarlet Pimpernel, here you go:
http://www.blakeneymanor.com/series.html
girlyswot
09-10-2007, 01:30 AM
Here's an odd fact I recently learned concering Ivanhoe. Both Tony Blair and Mao Tse Tung have listed it among their favourite novels. Spooky, huh? And the footballer, Emile Heskey has Ivanhoe as a middle name.
And I second the rec. for Amelia Peabody - a deliciously anti-heroine figure.
I know Philippa Gregory's not to everyone's taste and I find her a bit up and down but I did really enjoy The Queen's Fool and the Virgin's Lover.
Oh, just thought of another one. Credo, by Melvyn Bragg. Set in the Dark Ages, sort of centred around the Synod of Whitby at which the church in England decided to ally itself with Rome rather than the Celtic traditions. c.e.lawson, you'd love it. The hero is the manliest man this side of Jamie Fraser, with suitably fearsome scars and the whole book is as full of flangst as you could imagine.
Diviner
09-10-2007, 01:35 AM
Did anyone mention the Brother Caedfell series?
girlyswot
09-10-2007, 01:45 AM
Yes.
If you want to get a taste of good historicals you really ought to read these people.
Anything by:
Rosemary Sutcliffe,
Dorothy Dunnet,
Georgette Heyer,
Kelly Greenwood,
Michael Pearce,
Ellis Peters,
Mary Renault,
Anne Perry,
Lindsay Davies,
Bernard Cornwall's Sharpe series,
Robert Graves 'I, Claudius' and 'Claudius the God'.
But it deserves another mention!
Doogs
09-10-2007, 02:08 AM
I was thinking. It'd be fun to do a second topic on LEAST favorite historicals. I think we can learn as much from the bad, and what they get wrong, as we can from the good.
DeleyanLee - Thank you for the link to the Scarlet Pimpernel series. I was the one who didn't know it was a series rather than just one story. Puma
Manat
09-10-2007, 03:40 AM
The Francis Crawford books by Dorothy Dunnet
The Journeyer(about Marco Polo,riveting)and Aztec, both by GaryJennings
The I Claudius series by Robert Graves
God Knows by Joseph Heller. It's King David's autobiographical account of his life and times. Hysterically funny, extremely raunchy, literate and deep. Wonderful book!
funidream
09-10-2007, 05:34 AM
I really loved Shogun. I don't really care if it was not accurate. I was swept away.
Everything by Dumas and Sabatini.
For current authors:
Though I have never cracked open a Sharp book I love Bernard Cornwell - THE GALLOWS THIEF is a stand alone book that is a great read. His Starbuck series is some of the best fiction set during the American civil war and his Arthur Trilogy is just jampacked full of Arthury goodness.
I have also been enjoying the Captain Alatriste series by Arturo Perez-Reverte.
Saylor's mystery series set in ancient Rome with Gordianus the Finder - those are all good.
BardSkye
09-10-2007, 07:04 AM
My favourites only just qualify as "historical." All have the sea and ships as background.
HMS Ulysses - by Alastair Maclean. His only historical; he was known for mysteries. Set on a destroyer on the Halifax to Murmansk convoy run during WWII.
Grey Seas Under and The Serpent's Coil - by Farley Mowat. Fictionalized true story of the ocean-going tugs of Foundation Marine, an ocean salvage company based in Montreal and Halifax.
I think many of you would like Margaret Elphinstone.
She doesn't write historical fiction exclusively but The Sea Road is about Vikings in Canada and Greenland, Voyageur is about the fur trade and the beginning of the war of 1812 and a captive British woman among the Indians, Islanders is about early Christianity in the islands north of Scotland (erm..forget which ones), and Light is about lighthousekeeping off the Isle of Man.
girlyswot
09-10-2007, 07:34 AM
Rose Tremain. 'Music and Silence' is one of my favourite novels ever.
PastMidnight
09-10-2007, 02:21 PM
Ooh! Yes, Rose Tremain. I just loved Restoration and Music and Silence.
My absolute favorite book is A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, which I think qualified as historical when it was published.
Also love Ken Follett's Pillars of the Earth
I like Bernard Cornwall, but haven't read the Sharpe series.
Caleb Carr's Laszlo Kreizler books.
Margaret George, Tracy Chevalier, some of Colleen McCullough.
I'm going to have to jot down some of the authors mentioned on this thread for my 'to read' list!
Rosemary Sutcliffe
Henry Treece
Colleen McCullough (Roman period)
Georgette Heyer
Edith Pargeter (aka Ellis Peters) 'The Heaven Tree'
Anya Seton 'Katherine'
Lyndsay Davies...especially 'The Course Of Honour'
Bernard Cornwell
Komnena
09-14-2007, 06:07 AM
I'd like to throw in a plug for Only Call Us Faithful by Marie Jakober. It's an excellent novel about Southern Unionists during the Civil War.
PeeDee
10-09-2007, 04:28 AM
the book which made me realize I should pursue my Roman novel was Eagle in the Snow by Wallace Breem. What a stunning book. Just amazing. And I really love Harris's Pompeii. For now, those are my big ones.
For my next book -- another historical, curiously enough -- it was influenced by the works of John Steinbeck, most specifically.
I saw the new thread about historical novels and went back to look for the old one - salvaged after the crash over a year ago and then added onto. So here are some of the previous picks for historical novels. Puma
I've just discover CJ Sansom's 4 tudor novels. His hero is a lawyer, first working for Thomas Cromwell, then Thomas Cranmer. I was impressed by the very lovely writing, his immense and detailed knowledge, and the fact that he writes about ordinary people involved in the upheavals of the 1536 religious changes made by Henry VIII. They are not pretty reads, quite disturbing at times but very honest and believable.
selkn.asrai
08-29-2008, 05:34 AM
- Cold Mountain (Frazier): I've also seen it classified as literary. I'll always throw in my vote for this book. I think it's a modern masterpiece, though many people have a different opinion.
-Atonement (McEwan): another literary work with extraordinary historical integration. This book broke my heart in every way. I savored every word.
Dizzy City (Griffin): though I haven't finished it, I picked this up because of the WWI backdrop, the style, and and tone. All were v. intriguing. The MC has proven compelling thus far.
-All Quiet on the Western Front (Remarque); In Parenthesis (Jones); Red Badge of Courage (Crane): as far as classics go, these are beautiful.
For YA: I've heard good things about Ann Rinaldi. And the American Girl series (Winter of Red Snow in particular) was what got me into historical fiction as a little girl. Though a lot of the older books in the series are now OOP.
:)
DeleyanLee
08-29-2008, 07:24 AM
In that vein, how about Barbara Hambly's Benjamin January? It's 1800's New Orleans. Stunningly good historicals where when and where it happens matters a great to the mystery plotline.
Inarticulate Babbler
09-20-2008, 01:57 AM
I like
Bernard Cornwell
Edward Rutherfurd
Robert Harris
Diana Gabaldon
C.S. Forester
Patrick O'Brian
Simon Scarrow
and Conn Iggulden (I loved his 3 Genghis books, which he is not done with)
I just ordered Blood Rock by James Jackson (which was a recent recommendation by Conn Iggulden) He also has a newer one about the crusades called Pilgrim.
And I'm trying to find a used copy of Scott Oden's Men of Bronze and Memnon.
Barb D
09-20-2008, 02:39 AM
And with a completely different flavor, how about To Say Nothing of the Dog and Doomsday Book by Connie Willis. They are a combination of sci-fi and historical, with historians from the mid-21st century time-traveling into the past to do their research. Between the two books, they have some of the same characters and concepts but completely different tones. Doomsday Book is a sob-all-night tear jerker, and To Say Nothing of the Dog is a comedy.
Doogs
09-20-2008, 03:18 AM
the book which made me realize I should pursue my Roman novel was Eagle in the Snow by Wallace Breem. What a stunning book. Just amazing. And I really love Harris's Pompeii. For now, those are my big ones.
Strangely, Eagle in the Snow didn't do much for me. Maybe it was because I went into it with such high expectations.
I found Pompeii good but staggeringly uneven. Everything surrounding the eruption of Vesuvius was fantastic, but I thought the human plot felt tacked on at times, the sort of thing you might encounter in a mid-summer disaster movie.
Curious if you've read Harris' Imperium? For me, it far outstrips Pompeii, and may rank up there as one of the best historicals I've ever read. Fantastic realization of the politics of the Late Republic, and a fantastic job of turning Cicero's rise to the consulship into a gripping story.
PastMidnight
09-21-2008, 01:34 AM
In that vein, how about Barbara Hambly's Benjamin January? It's 1800's New Orleans. Stunningly good historicals where when and where it happens matters a great to the mystery plotline.
Good call. Full of historical detail, well-paced plot, interesting characters. They're set in 1830s New Orleans, which attracted me in the first place as being a little-written-about time. I also really liked her novel on Mary Todd Lincoln. She's a great atmospheric writer.
cooeedownunder
10-03-2008, 05:18 AM
Colleen McCullough's Caesar and the Thornbirds. She writes extremely vivid prose.
I've just discover CJ Sansom's 4 tudor novels. His hero is a lawyer, first working for Thomas Cromwell, then Thomas Cranmer. I was impressed by the very lovely writing, his immense and detailed knowledge, and the fact that he writes about ordinary people involved in the upheavals of the 1536 religious changes made by Henry VIII. They are not pretty reads, quite disturbing at times but very honest and believable.
Ooh, let me leap in here to worship at the shrine of Sansom. A little like you, pdr, I only discovered him a few months ago, but I found myself waiting for the release of Revelation with almost as much nail-biting enthusiasm as is usually reserved in our house for a new Tomb Raider game!
Seriously, I really like this writer. His recreation of Tudor England is superb and the MC is a darling - made all the more lovable because of his flaws. OK, so the plots aren't all that mind-blowing, but the recreation of the world and the characterisation, not to mention the beauty of the prose, have sold me on this author.
Having read historical fiction since I was 11 (I started with Jean Plaidy - didn't we all? - bless her ;)) I have, over the years, read some wonderful work and a great deal of dross. These days, I have a simple criterion: if I am a bystander in Tudor London, Medieval Cheshire or Ancient Rome or Greece and the story is happening 'now', without any hint that I am reading 'history', then the author stays on my shelves at home. If I pick up a tome that has modern folks dressed up in togas or whatever, I'll read to the end and send the book off to the local exchange shop. It seems to me that many historical novelists these days write 'costume drama' rather than pure historical fiction. I want my Greeks to be Greek, dammit - my Tudor pie-sellers to be Tudor! I want to know that I am in a different world but understand what motivates all those around me. I do not want to sit back with a 21st century view of those little people who lived so long ago and make judgements about them. Worse still - I certainly do NOT want the author to make 21st century judgements for me.
Having got this little rant off my chest, I will just say here and now that I worship Mary Renault as a god. Not a goddess (Mary would not have approved!), but a god. I still believe she has yet to be surpassed, and can only regret that she never wrote about the Roman world. I am actually re-reading The Mask of Apollo at the moment, for at least the 20th time. I never tire of her.
I think someone has also mentioned Harris' Pompeii and Imperium. These have stayed on my shelves too, and I adored his portrait of Cicero, an historical figure whom I actually loathe! After reading Harris' portrait, I found myself rooting for the pompous old fool. I can offer no greater testament to his writing than that.
On the downside, may I offer three authors that I dislike: Simon Scarrow (costume drama and a lot of hacking of swords - couldn't get past five chapters of his first); Conn Iggulden (the same applies) and the ever popular Philippa Gregory. I don't know quite what it is about Gregory, but I just can't take to her style, and her characters seem a bit vapid to me.
the plots aren't all that mind-blowing,
Ah, I thought differently, the first and second books had quite original plots but it is hard to write that 'spy' type story with a new twist. I have read them all and am impressed by his ability to take you into his version of the Tudor world and make it real and satisfying.
Oh, and ditto for Philippa Gregory, I'm not fan but it took me a couple of books to realise that what I dislike is the feeling of writer's dishonesty, there's a kind of spurious feeling to her history, and she seems to always dollop out x amount of sex to a recipe.
gothicangel
05-08-2011, 11:51 PM
Zombie thread. [found it on Google] :D
I'm looking for some good Roman novels so any recommendations would be great. To my shame I've just discovered Rosemary Sutcliff and would like to find more of the same. I'm currently reading Simon Scarrow's Under the Eagle, but I'm not too impressed.
I would love to find more Roman family sagas.
To answer the OP:
Pillars of the Earth Ken Follet
Restoration Rose Tremaine
And the Land Lay Still James Robertson.
Imprimature
firedrake
05-09-2011, 12:02 AM
Awesome Zombie thread.
The Eagle and the Raven by Pauline Gedge: great account of the Roman invasion of Britain, Caractacus, (Caradoc) and Boudicca.
We Speak no Treason by Rosemary Hawley Jarman: the first book I'd ever read about Richard III, beautifully written, gorgeous descriptions and very moving. Also worth reading, by Jarman, Crown in Candlelight and The King's Grey Mare
Csardas by Diane Pearson. A saga about two sisters in Hungary, stretching from WW1 to post WW2.
Avalon by Anya Seton, about the Vikings in Iceland and Greenland.
Great Maria[U] by Celia Holland
[U]Zemindar by Valerie Fitzgerald. Great novel about the Sepoy Uprising and the Siege of Lucknow of 1857
The White Witch by Elizabeth Goudge set in South Oxfordshire during the English Civil War.
Moon on the Water, Chains of Fate and Alathea by Pamela Belle, set in England during Civil War and the Restoration
I'm sure there's more. My mind has gone blank. Will probably remember about 3 in the morning. :D
ElisabethF
05-09-2011, 04:03 AM
I'm usually not big on earlier historicals, but one of my all-time favorite novels transcends my typical tastes: Westward Ho! by Charles Kingsley, a story of English explorers in the Elizabethan era - it moves from England to Ireland to South America and comes back to England for the battle with the Armada. I come back to this one every once in a while - every character, every line of dialogue just sparkles.
Ivanhoe is also a favorite. Anybody read Michael Strogoff by Jules Verne? Then there's The Scottish Chiefs by Jane Porter - I have no idea how accurate it is, but it's a great yarn. And I think this one is classified as children's/young adult, but no matter; Johnny Tremain by Esther Forbes is probably one of the best pieces of historical fiction I've read so far as the blending of fictional characters and storyline with actual history.
though it's not strictly historical but is dealing with historical events. Try Eliot Pattison's books on Tibet.
Start with 'The Skull Mantra'
The writing is fantastic, the detail believable, and the writer is passionate about evil governments not evil people so it is not a rant about the wicked Chinese, indeed the MC is Chinese.
And I've been enjoy Patrick O'Brien thanks to a recommendation in this thread.
JayWalloping
05-09-2011, 04:05 AM
[SIZE=2]I'm looking for some good Roman novels so any recommendations would be great. To my shame I've just discovered Rosemary Sutcliff and would like to find more of the same.
The very best Roman novel I know of is the father of the recent interest (last hundred years) in Roman stories: Robert Graves' I, Claudius. There is a sequel called Claudius the God which is an inferior book, IMO.
Novel takes the form of autobiography. We get to see the Julio-Claudians in the early days of the Roman empire: Augustus and his wife Livia; Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius. (Nero appears in the sequel.)
A stunner of a book.
Hi Elizabethf - I've always loved Ivanhoe and Scottish Chiefs. Neither gets as much mention as some more recent novels, but since they are both ones I read when I was young, they'll always remain favorites. Puma
ETA: And yes, I read Michael Strogoff (even though I always wanted to call him Stroganoff.)
Inarticulate Babbler
05-09-2011, 09:43 AM
I'll add Robert Low's Viking Series: The Whale Road; The Wolf Sea and The White Raven.
gothicangel
05-09-2011, 02:09 PM
The very best Roman novel I know of is the father of the recent interest (last hundred years) in Roman stories: Robert Graves' I, Claudius. There is a sequel called Claudius the God which is an inferior book, IMO.
Thanks, I'll head over to Amazon.
I just browsed my local Waterstone's and it all seems to be books on the Army. Slowly getting into Scarrow, but would prefer something more Sutcliff-esque.
ElisabethF
05-09-2011, 06:50 PM
ETA: And yes, I read Michael Strogoff (even though I always wanted to call him Stroganoff.)
Me too! That's funny.
ElizaL
05-09-2011, 07:19 PM
I love Michelle Moran's novels about Egypt.
donroc
05-10-2011, 02:50 AM
I'll add Howard Fast's version of Sparticus and My Glorious Brothers about the Maccabee revolt.
Komnena
05-10-2011, 05:21 PM
I'd like to put in a plug for the Ten Thousand by Michael Curtis Ford and an author named Jo Graham. Her books are listed as science fiction but are actually excellent historical novels.
Carrie-Anne
05-11-2011, 05:16 AM
Even if it might not have been intended primarily as historical fiction, I love Hermann Hesse's Narcissus and Goldmund, set in Medieval Germany and including one of the outbreaks of Black Plague. Not only is he my second-favorite writer, but that particular book is one of the books that's had the most impact on me.
PorterStarrByrd
05-11-2011, 05:23 AM
I have to put Eckert in. His crietia is so exacting that he uses very little fiction, but the books read like fiction.
I particularly liked "The Fontiersman"
He writes about the early northwest when the northwest was what is now the midwest.
His abilty to employ recorded history in dialog and description are fantastic. Very little is needed to flesh it out as a readable 'novel'.
Eckert is good - but I don't think he's classified as fiction or novel (but I'm not sure how he's marketed without checking.) He's the best source for some little known facts about the Northwest Territory. Puma
IdiotsRUs
05-12-2011, 05:23 PM
I'll add Robert Low's Viking Series: The Whale Road; The Wolf Sea and The White Raven.
Oh yes! I'm just on my way to pick up the Raven from the bookshop. I love these books.
Also Cornwell did a great series on Arthur I really liked. Does WWII count as historical? Atonement and the Book Thief, I loved both those
WWII definitely historical. From what I understand historical is over 50 years ago and/or, prior to the writer's life. (Which seems a bit odd, i.e., for me, is it 50 years or 68?, and can someone who's 25 write about 1980 as historical? But that's the way I currently understand it.) Puma
Lampedusa - The Leopard
Manzoni - The Betrothed
Fielding - Vanity Fair
And probably the greatest historical novel of all times, Tolstoy's War and Peace.
Historical and Literary have not traditionally been mutually exclusive descriptions.
stormie
05-17-2011, 01:30 AM
The resurrection of the once-dead thread. :)
Most, if not all, of Anya Seton's books are well-written historical novels.
DianeL
05-18-2011, 07:10 AM
Parke Godwin's "A Memory of Lions" is perhaps the best HF I have ever read. Luminous and also powerful, well grounded in history, and simply gripping in itself. Great writing.
dgaughran
05-19-2011, 05:45 AM
No votes yet for Louis de Bernieres?
Captain Corell's Mandolin was excellent, his South American trilogy was hilarious, and Birds Without Wings is the most beautiful book I ever read.
dgaughran
05-20-2011, 01:26 AM
Me too for Bernieres.
Sometimes when I am reading his stuff I stop breathing. He's the only writer he does that for me, except maybe Gabriel Garcia Marquez. But de Bernieres is more consistent, for me (within the books I mentioned).
Sometimes when I read either of those two, my head is so gunked up I can't write anything for days.
I could live until I was 10,000 years old and I would never be that good.
I read about Captain Corelli's Mandolin, how he actually moved to Greece and learned to cook Greek food (and leaned the mandolin). Would that make him a 'method' writer?
No meticulous. I've heard him speak and he's a great man for research and accurate historical novels. My kind of writer.
Anyone, particularly the UK/Commonwealth people, who grew up with Lucy M. Boston's 'Greene Knowe' books might like to know they are now considered historical!
The film just released, 'From Time to Time' is an interesting pastiche of the first two books, but not a bad film for all that. Mind you there's a stellar cast with Maggie Smith, Timothy Spall, Pauline Collins so it couldn't be flop.
TudorRose
05-20-2011, 04:55 PM
One of my favourites doesn't seem to be widely known so I thought I'd plug it here. It's by Geraldine McCaughrean, who is far better known for her children's books. I think it's out of print now, but worth keeping an eye out for in libraries and second-hand places.
Vainglory - "A tale of obsessive love, chivalry and ambition, set in Renaissance France. It centres on the Chateau Gloriole and five turbulent generations of its aristocratic occupants, evoking a century and a half of war, romance and obsession through the changing fortunes of the Comtes de Gloriole."
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/02/ciu/cb/ce/9b96e10e22a0241a5a4d3210.L.jpg
ryannj5
05-20-2011, 05:13 PM
Totally agree - I loved The Queen's Fool and The Virgin's Lover by P. Gregory.
Here's an odd fact I recently learned concering Ivanhoe. Both Tony Blair and Mao Tse Tung have listed it among their favourite novels. Spooky, huh? And the footballer, Emile Heskey has Ivanhoe as a middle name.
And I second the rec. for Amelia Peabody - a deliciously anti-heroine figure.
I know Philippa Gregory's not to everyone's taste and I find her a bit up and down but I did really enjoy The Queen's Fool and the Virgin's Lover.
Oh, just thought of another one. Credo, by Melvyn Bragg. Set in the Dark Ages, sort of centred around the Synod of Whitby at which the church in England decided to ally itself with Rome rather than the Celtic traditions. c.e.lawson, you'd love it. The hero is the manliest man this side of Jamie Fraser, with suitably fearsome scars and the whole book is as full of flangst as you could imagine.
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