What Qualifies

[Puma]

What qualifies? User NameRemember Me?Password FAQ (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/faq.php)Members List (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/memberlist.php)Calendar (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/calendar.php)Mark Forums Read (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?do=markread)

[/URL]
Thread Tools (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/) http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 06-20-2006, 08:51 PM AOD23 (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=6641) vbmenu_register("postmenu_658778", true);
Resident Hoplite

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/customavatars/avatar6641_1.gif (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=6641)

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: In my own little world
Posts: 114
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif


What qualifies?
So umm...yea...what qualifies as historical fiction? I mean I understand that it's gotta be fiction and historical but like...do you have to use real people and events that actually happened? Or can you use things that havent happened with people who didnt actually exist to your knowledge and just write it in an historically accurate timeline, and that makes it historical fiction?
__________________
We are the children of a lesser god.
^
Lyrics to a song that I dont remember the name of



http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif AOD23View Public Profile (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=6641)Send a private message to AOD23 (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=6641)Find More Posts by AOD23 (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=6641)




http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 06-20-2006, 10:40 PM NeuroFizz (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=1846) vbmenu_register("postmenu_658986", true);
The Grad Students did it...

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/customavatars/avatar1846_0.gif (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=1846)

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The other Wilmington, in the South
Posts: 2,158
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gifhttp://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gifhttp://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gifhttp://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gifhttp://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gifhttp://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.gifhttp://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.gif


To me, it requires use of somewhat realistic to very realistic settings from a specified time period and place, with accuracy (or suspended disbelief) in terms of the way of life, customs, and social/personal mannerisms of that time. It doesn't have to be a real place, or use real people, but you can have both. The main thing, again to me, is the necessity to carry the reader to that place and time, and to build a story there.

I'm sure my view is very simplistic, and others may have a more formal, and certainly more accurate, definition. This is fiction, though, so the writer has some leeway. Just remember that a mistake in place or time will be caught by dedicated readers of historical fiction, so thorough research is very important. In a lot of ways, historical fiction is more difficult to write than contemporary stuff, but in my mind, it is also more pleasurable to read if done right--like being carried back in time.
__________________
Coming in July 2006 Phoenix (Historical Novel set in the 1870's American West)

Coming in October 2006 The Stick in the Fear Anthology (genre: horror)

Both from Whiskey Creek Press (www.whiskeycreekpress.com (http://www.whiskeycreekpress.com/))
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif NeuroFizzView Public Profile (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=1846)[U]Send a private message to NeuroFizz (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=1846)Send email to NeuroFizz (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=1846)Find More Posts by NeuroFizz (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=1846)




http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif Yesterday, 03:59 AM pdr (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=185) vbmenu_register("postmenu_659235", true);
Writer

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Still moving around.
Posts: 556
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif


We were talking about this in the 'favourites' thread.
I said then:

The definition for historical novels is that they are usually written fifty years after the events in the novel or written by someone who was not alive at the time of the event.

I think you'll find that historical novels include history as a 'character' and integral part of the plot and are therefore different from mainstream novels. So a mainstream novel written in the 1930s is not and cannot be called a historical novel although it might incidentally give the reader a taste of the 1930s today.

I'll add that:

You write to give the reader a taste of another time. Some writers use real events and real people as minor characters, others don't.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif pdrView Public Profile (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=185)Send a private message to pdr (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=185)Find More Posts by pdr (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=185)




http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif Yesterday, 05:13 AM Puma (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=7222) vbmenu_register("postmenu_659264", true);
Board fanatic

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: near Columbus Ohio
Posts: 134
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif


In my opinion, the best historical fiction has always been stories that are set in real time periods (the French Revolution, the Monmouth Rebellion, the Civil War) with at least references to important people who existed at the time. In contrast, stories like Little House on the Prairie (and I'm not an expert on this) are set in a real time period but without the important personages - I haven't found stories like this quite as compelling. But in all cases the main requirement is historical accuracy in the telling of a story that did or could have happened. Puma
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif PumaView Public Profile (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=7222)Send a private message to Puma (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=7222)Find More Posts by Puma (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=7222)




http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif Yesterday, 09:01 PM stumpfoot (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=6766) vbmenu_register("postmenu_660792", true);
One of the Locals

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/avatars/avatarHobbes.gif (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=6766)

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bend Oregon
Posts: 31
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by pdr
I said then:

The definition for historical novels is that they are usually written fifty years after the events in the novel or written by someone who was not alive at the time of the event.

I think you'll find that historical novels include history as a 'character' and integral part of the plot and are therefore different from mainstream novels. So a mainstream novel written in the 1930s is not and cannot be called a historical novel although it might incidentally give the reader a taste of the 1930s today.

I'll add that:

You write to give the reader a taste of another time. Some writers use real events and real people as minor characters, others don't.


I was wondering what your source for the fifty years rule was.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif stumpfootView Public Profile (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=6766)Send a private message to stumpfoot (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=6766)Send email to stumpfoot (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=6766)Find More Posts by stumpfoot (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=6766)




http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif Yesterday, 11:36 PM pdr (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=185) vbmenu_register("postmenu_661095", true);
Writer

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Still moving around.
Posts: 556
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif


Huh?
Mine, of course, I'm a dictator!!

Actually:

it's the Historical Novel Society and apparently that's how most publishers view it too.

Join up and get the inside knowledge from publishers and best selling authors.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

[pdr]

in the latest issue of Solander from Cannongate who publish major historical authors. Interesting reading about what is historical or not.


P.S. Thank you a hundredfold, Puma for saving all the threads. I'm too inept tech wise to do anything so useful. And all the tech threads that were helping me have been wiped. I didn't get them all copied into my files.

[Puma]

If you can give me any specifics, PDR, I'll take a shot at trying to find some of them. Puma

[stumpfoot]

Hey, Pdr I checked out the website, prety col, thanks for the heads up!

[byElizabeth]

I'm going to weigh in if I can. My current MS is historical fiction...I wasn't sure at first b/c it has nothing to do with any historical person but is set in Post-Civil War Philladelphia. That reason alone agents, editors, and published writers told me it is historical. Hope that helps???

*EBY
www.writerunscripted.blogspot.com

[maestrowork]

What do you call the kind of fiction that is set in a historical time and place but it's not entirely factual and uses historical events and characters in a plot that never happened? For example, the main character became Lincoln's best friend during the Civil War.

Is it considered speculative/alternative history, even though it is set in the correct time and place and many of the events/characters are correct?

[pdr]

maestrowork, that it is alternative historical.

I'm away from my home bases in Japan or NZ so can't accesss my Historical Novel Society info but will try in a couple of days.

[Puma]

Maestro, I'd say the answer to your question is historical fiction. If it were all accurate, it'd be non fiction. Historical fiction uses actual historic people, sometimes in situations that didn't exist - and at this point in time, who knows who else might have been a friend or acquaintance of Lincoln. Can you list all the people who were friends with your grandparents - of course not - so it's speculative to a degree but even more so, it's just fiction. Puma

[byElizabeth]

There is an author who does that...kind o flike "changing history".

"Guns of the South" by Harry Turtledove

My husband liked this book and I think Turtledove writes all of his books with this style.

Might be worth researching...

[BardSkye]

I'm back! I missed you while I was off gallivanting through the skies. :D

And now that I'm back and reading through all the stuff I missed, I'm getting confused again (a normal state of mind, I'm afraid).

I will be using some real people, places and incidents in my WIP but deliberately messing with the timeline so that a few of the documented facts happen a little closer together. So will it be historical fiction or alternate history?

Specifically, I'm changing the year of Herod's death, and changing the dates of some astronomical happenings so my astrologer characters have their signs to go on their journey to Bethlehem.

[pdr]

Calling it historical as you're generally correct in what you're writing. Then you need a note to readers at the beginning to explain that you've changed the time line for the sake of the story. Give them the real dates too. I know I appreciate this as a reader.

[BardSkye]

Sounds like a good plan to me, thank you.

As a reader, I don't mind someone taking a little license for the sake of the story but, like you, I appreciate them telling me in advance that they're deliberately messing things up, rather than just thinking they're sloppy researchers.