Finding an agent and getting published?

[AKillerCanCan]

How should I go about finding an agent when the time is right?

And what do I need to get published?

[victoriastrauss]

There's plenty of information here to answer both your questions. Spend some time searching through the threads in this topic and in other relevant topics, such as Bewares & Background Check and Ask the Agent. Another good way to get the information you're seeking is to go to the bookstore or library and find books that deal with the publishing process. There are many.

Research is an important element of the agent/publisher search. Now is a good time to acquire the habit.

- Victoria

[AKillerCanCan]

K thanks <3

[AnnMB]

Basically, to find an agent, you need to send out query letter to lots of agents. Each agent/agency has different requirements for submission (i.e some just want a query letter, some want sample chapters, some want a synopsis, etc.) A good agency usually maintains a decent website, so it is recommended that you check the website of the agency before you submit to make sure you are following their guidelines, and that they are taking submissions. A good website to start with is the AAR site (Assoc. of Author's Representatives), which maintains a searchable database of agencies. Also, get a copy of The Writer's Market, which lists agents and publishers, with plenty of information that you should find helpful.

I send out my queries in batches of 10-20,. Some respond right away, some take their time, some never respond at all. It's a lot of waiting (and hoping), and can be a long process. And remember, finding an agent doesn't mean your definitely going to get published. That agent has to find a publisher to take your work, and that can take a long time. Even after you find a publisher, it can be a year or more before you see the book in print.

Doesn't sound very encouraging, does it? Don't worry about it. Just do the best work you can and let the chips fall where they may. If you get tired of the system, you can always self publish!

One more point: Make sure your ms. is DONE before you start sending queries (that's everything, right down to the last proof edit). The last thing you want to happen is to have an agent call you and say "yes," but you have to tell them to wait because the ms. is not done. Chances are, you'll be looking for a new agent in a heartbeat.

[jbal]

Does this mean you're over your your writer's block? You posted a couple of days ago about that, so hopefully this means you got it done? congratulations.

[Tilly]

This article is very good:
http://www.sff.net/people/VictoriaStrauss/trackrecord.html

[blacbird]

How should I go about finding an agent when the time is right?

And what do I need to get published?

The second question comes first: You need to write a good book. The time to look for an agent is when that has been accomplished, not before.

As for finding an agent, I've heard there are some hidden in ruined Templar castles in the Pyrenees, but it's possible that's a legend.

caw.

[Penguin Queen]

I think they've all gone live in Atlantis. Thats why they never answer my emails. *sigh*

[AKillerCanCan]

I've somewhat beat my writers block, but I have a massive problem with this.

My mother decided it would be nice to clean out my closet, as she was doing so, the notebook that held looseleaf paper and pieces of napkin with half finished sentences seemed to have *oops* slipped from her hands and sprawled across my bedroom floor. Well now, seems like I have a bit of a job to undergo before I can even place myself back into the story. I have no idea where I left of, therefore...I must find out! Le sigh...it is going to be a long night...

[LightShadow]

Query, learn, query again, hope, and then try again.

[jeffrey1949]

My experience with an agent was not good. They did nothing to shop my manuscript, plus they charged for editorial services. I think it all depends on goals. If you want to be known within the circles of literati, you're kind of stuck with finding an honest agent first who will open a door to a publisher. It's a scam in a way, though, there are lots of people out there to take your money (agents, editors, web subscriptions) becuase they hook you on the dream. But if you just want to write and are willing to engage in your own marketing, I would say forget the agents and try to find a publisher that will get your stuff on the street.
Jeffrey Hansson
Artifact of Deception
Doctorate in Death
http://mindsnax.squarespace.com/prologue/

[Ben King]

How would one go about submitting a manuscript to a publisher?

[blacbird]

My experience with an agent was not good. They did nothing to shop my manuscript, plus they charged for editorial services.


You just revealed your particular problem, not one with agents in general. NEVER NEVER NEVER pay an agent for anything up front, and "editorial services" is a code for "scam".

caw.

[moblues]

Jeffrey, I checked the link to your site. PublishAmerica? Please, I implore you, please check out the "Bewares" section of this website about this scam of an outfit.





Mike

[HConn]

My experience with an agent was not good. They did nothing to shop my manuscript, plus they charged for editorial services.

The key here is to query honest, reputable agents only. Use Agentquery.com and Editors and Preditors to weed out the dishonest and the gormless.

You don't need to do an end-run around agents. You just need to get yourself a worthwhile one.

If you can't, write a better book and try again.

[Jamesaritchie]

My experience with an agent was not good. They did nothing to shop my manuscript, plus they charged for editorial services. I think it all depends on goals. If you want to be known within the circles of literati, you're kind of stuck with finding an honest agent first who will open a door to a publisher. It's a scam in a way, though, there are lots of people out there to take your money (agents, editors, web subscriptions) becuase they hook you on the dream. But if you just want to write and are willing to engage in your own marketing, I would say forget the agents and try to find a publisher that will get your stuff on the street.
Jeffrey Hansson
Artifact of Deception
Doctorate in Death
http://mindsnax.squarespace.com/prologue/


You didn't have an agent, you had a scam artist. Real agents do not take your money. Not a penny of it. Neither do real editors. Not a penny of it.

Finding an honest agent is one of the simplest things in the world. You aren't stuck with anything. All you really have to do is look at that agent's track record, and who she represents. This is not at all difficult to do.

Avoiding scams is also incredibly easy. If someone asks for money, always say no.

[jeffrey1949]

I've read all the knocks on PublishAmerica, and I can tell you that I have had nothing but great success with them. Books that come out that are not edited are the fault of the writer, not the publisher. The contract is clear and explicit.You can ahve them edit thoroughly, minimally, or not at all. The choice is yours. They never promised me anything or crawfished on anything.Virtually none of the acidic criticisms I have read have merit. I went into the situation with my eyes wide open, I have not been "scammed", whatever that implies, and my books are being purchased and read. Point of correction. Editors DO charge, and a lot. One editor I shopped would edit my book for 6.00 a page; another charges 40.00 an hour. I can't afford that. Besides, I can probably do it better anyway since I've had tons of editing experience. The thiing I like about PA is that they open doors for people who are new authors and for those, like me, who don't have either the connections or resources to try play the traditional game. PA works for me, and that's all I really have to say about it. I've published alot professional (anthropology) and I have no illusions about being the next Stephen King or Kurt Vonnegut. I write for myself, and for whoever wants to read my books. I have a great day job and am not in it for the fame or money.
Jeffrey

[Susan Gable]

I've read all the knocks on PublishAmerica, and I can tell you that I have had nothing but great success with them.

Please clarify "great success." How many copies have you sold?

To play fair, I'll "show you mine." My first book with Harlequin Superromance, published in 2002, sold just over 38K copies on US shelves ALONE. (That doesn't take into account the number of copies it sold to readers by Harlequin directly, the copies sold in Canada, England, France, or Australia/New Zealand, both direct and on shelves.)

Editors DO charge, and a lot. One editor I shopped would edit my book for 6.00 a page; another charges 40.00 an hour. I can't afford that.

My editor gets paid by Harlequin. I don't write checks to her.

Besides, I can probably do it better anyway since I've had tons of editing experience. The thiing I like...

Perhaps that statement would have more punch without the typo in the following sentence?

about PA is that they open doors for people who are new authors and for those, like me, who don't have either the connections or resources to try play the traditional game.

<sigh> Jeffrey, Jeffrey, Jeffrey. You are parroting the company line, and it has no basis in REALITY.

I was a new author when Harlequin published my first book. (Here's how you can tell - it was my FIRST book.) I didn't have any connections. I don't have any family or friends who work for Harlequin, nor did my parents know someone, etc. I met some editors through RWA - but I did that MYSELF. Nobody did it for me. I didn't need any resources except the ink and paper to print out my submissions, and the postage money to mail them out. I didn't even have an agent. (Harlequin doesn't require one. I knew that because I'd done my homework.)

So, Harlequin opened doors for me. They opened the doors of bookstores across North America, and got my book on the SHELVES. Not to be ordered. On the shelves. They opened the doors of grocery stores, KMarts, WalMarts, etc., getting my book on those shelves. My books were sold directly to a fairly substantial book club. I didn't send them the names of family and friends to BE that book club. HQ opened the doors to England, France, Australia and New Zealand for my books. Those are the doors HQ opened for me. Exactly WHAT doors did PA open for you that compare to those? Be specific. Back up your arguements with facts.

I write for myself, and for whoever wants to read my books. I have a great day job and am not in it for the fame or money.
Jeffrey

But...wouldn't you like MORE readers? A handful of readers (fewer than 1,000) isn't very satisfying. Not IMHO. The more, the merrier.

So, I'd be interested in hearing your responses to my questions. Facts, Jeffrey. Show us the FACTS.

Susan G.

[Sassenach]

I've read all the knocks on PublishAmerica, and I can tell you that I have had nothing but great success with them. Books that come out that are not edited are the fault of the writer, not the publisher. The contract is clear and explicit.You can ahve them edit thoroughly, minimally, or not at all. The choice is yours. They never promised me anything or crawfished on anything.Virtually none of the acidic criticisms I have read have merit. I went into the situation with my eyes wide open, I have not been "scammed", whatever that implies, and my books are being purchased and read. Point of correction. Editors DO charge, and a lot. One editor I shopped would edit my book for 6.00 a page; another charges 40.00 an hour. I can't afford that. Besides, I can probably do it better anyway since I've had tons of editing experience. The thiing I like about PA is that they open doors for people who are new authors and for those, like me, who don't have either the connections or resources to try play the traditional game. PA works for me, and that's all I really have to say about it. I've published alot professional (anthropology) and I have no illusions about being the next Stephen King or Kurt Vonnegut. I write for myself, and for whoever wants to read my books. I have a great day job and am not in it for the fame or money.
Jeffrey


Oh Jeffrey...

I thought PA was a "traditional" publisher.

[Cathy C]

Pretty much what Susan said, jeffrey1949, but I write for Tor Books. I'm grateful that our editor there made MASSIVE changes to the book (free of charge, of course. She's paid by the publisher). Changes were made to the timeline, the characters and the plot. Without those changes, it would have confused or frustrated a reader. My co-author and I were too close to the story. We simply couldn't SEE the logic gaps and errors. By making the changes, and using the selling power of a large publisher, we too wound up in groceries and discount stores. In fact, the publisher KEEPS selling the book . . . pushing the title, even now that it's nearly two years after first publication.

In fact, they're just about to print the THIRD edition of the book (the first print run was nearly 70,000), and the Wal-Mart/Sam's Club chain along with another major distributor just agreed to a special press run of more than 30K that will put our book (along with two others in the same line) into every Sam's Club and multiple grocery chains in the world in November for a special price of $4.99. That's TWO YEARS after publication. PA doesn't have that kind of stroke. They don't have the kind of selling power to make deals like that.

But it's okay if you are happy with PA. Really. If you don't have any intention to REPLACE the salary of your day job with writing, that's fine. But please don't fool yourself into believing that PA is "just like the other publishers." They aren't.

Since my goal is to pay the mortgage, the utilities and the car payment EVERY MONTH with my royalties, I'll stick with larger publishers. Just know that is absolutely possible for every other writer to do the same, if you work hard on your craft. I know, because I did it.

JMHO and good luck, AKillerCanCan.

[Josie]

This is not a complaint letter. I want to thank you:
Susan and Cathy and all you sages :thankyou:

This thread amongst other threads on AW Forum is fascinating. I'm on here more than I am working on my writing.

BUT all this has opened my eyes and hopefully furthered my attempts at getting a novel or two published.

You all have helped me a great deal to see all the issues brought up. Agents, short stories, novels, scams, endlessly I look, I must stop soon.

The agents who were guests on Aw forums opened my eyes, your opinions, numerous writers guidelines, genres, etc. has decided me to move on and submit to Harlequin/Silhouette. I did two years ago and after a requested full submission was rejected. I think that was a damper on my enthusiasm for anything H/S. But I've decided that most of the other novels I'm working on can be worked to submit to different lines at H/S. I like to think I've improved since then. Therefore, because H/S doesn't require agent submission--I won't need an agent at this time....yet. H/S has changed so much for the better, in my opinion, in the past few years!!

Susan::) Finally, here comes my question.Can you send multiple submissions or is it simultaneous submissions to H/S's different imprints at the same time?

Any input is appreciated.

Sorry this is a little long.

Cheers :)

[Susan Gable]

Susan::) Finally, here comes my question.Can you send multiple submissions or is it simultaneous submissions to H/S's different imprints at the same time?



Are we talking about the same project? Do you want to send the same story to different HQ eds and imprints?

If that's the case, the answer is NO. The eds (except for the Super eds) can buy for any of the imprints. The second part of that is the same project should NOT be able to fit in more than one line, not without serious revision. (Otherwise, what's the point of them having different lines?) You need to know the subtleties of which line is which. For example, SSE and Super are very close, but not identical. Super is a "wider" look at the story, involving more secondary characters, plotlines, etc., and SSE is a more "close-up" view of the story, more focused.

If you are talking about sending different projects to different lines, again the answer is pretty much NO. They like to see one thing at a time, and again, all the eds (with the exception of the Super eds who specialize in that line) can buy for any line. (Although a Super ed who got something she thought was good but better suited to a different line would likely pass it on to another editor for her to take a look at.)

Target one editor. One line. Keep hitting them with new projects if they reject the first/second/third one. :) Don't give up! Persistence is necessary in spades in this business!

Good luck, and give a holler if I can answer anymore questions for you!

Susan G.

[Jamesaritchie]

I've read all the knocks on PublishAmerica, and I can tell you that I have had nothing but great success with them. Books that come out that are not edited are the fault of the writer, not the publisher. The contract is clear and explicit.You can ahve them edit thoroughly, minimally, or not at all. The choice is yours. They never promised me anything or crawfished on anything.Virtually none of the acidic criticisms I have read have merit. I went into the situation with my eyes wide open, I have not been "scammed", whatever that implies, and my books are being purchased and read. Point of correction. Editors DO charge, and a lot. One editor I shopped would edit my book for 6.00 a page; another charges 40.00 an hour. I can't afford that. Besides, I can probably do it better anyway since I've had tons of editing experience. The thiing I like about PA is that they open doors for people who are new authors and for those, like me, who don't have either the connections or resources to try play the traditional game. PA works for me, and that's all I really have to say about it. I've published alot professional (anthropology) and I have no illusions about being the next Stephen King or Kurt Vonnegut. I write for myself, and for whoever wants to read my books. I have a great day job and am not in it for the fame or money.
Jeffrey

The thing is, I don't know any successful writers who pay editors. If yu're a writer, you shuldn't need to hire an editor. Pubishing houses all have editors you don't have to pay, and they're very good at what they do.

I'm glad you're happy with PA, but it is a scam outfit, and that's putting it mildly.

Not being in it for the fame or money is also fine, but you should be in it for turning out the best possible novel. PA does not do this. With a couple of exceptions, the quality of just about every PA book I've seen is embarrassingly poor.

And it does not take connections or resources to get published. This is probably the biggest myth there is, usually fostored by scam artists who want your business. When I sold my first short story and my first novel I didn't know anyone in publishing. No one. I didn't even know anyone who knew anyone. I didn't know a single writer. My resouces consisted of a job that paid ninety-eight bucks per week.

PA is the worst kind of scam there is. It's a scam that makes too many new writers think it isn't a scam. But it is. A blatant, open scam.

[James D. Macdonald]

They did nothing to shop my manuscript, plus they charged for editorial services.

Without knowing anything else, I can say this fellow was a scammer. In fact, two words ("they charged") were enough to tell me that.

What was this agent's name?

[James D. Macdonald]

How would one go about submitting a manuscript to a publisher?

By getting a copy of that publisher's guidelines and following them to the letter.

[Josie]

Thanks very much, Susan.

I meant different stories to different imprints of H/S.

But I guess I can see why a beginner needs to query just one story at a time. Sigh. Well, I guess I get more time to write more, eh?

Okay, no problem.

Thanks, I will be back as I'm sure I'll have more questions.

So appreciated :)

Cheers :)

[UrsusMinor]

By getting a copy of that publisher's guidelines and following them to the letter.

Also, keep in mind that with most big houses, you can't submit manuscripts at all unless you have an agent.

Many folks think this means that the big houses are entirely closed. Not quite true. An unsolicited manuscript is one thing, and most big houses will toss them; but an unsolicited query is seldom outlawed. (Seldom encouraged, either, but that's beside the point.)

I managed to get editors at major NY houses to ask for my full manuscript prior to the time I had an agent. But you have to have some logical connection, and know the name of the editor you want. Editors you've met at conferences are obvious targets, but so are the editors of books you admire that are in your genre. There's nothing wrong with sending a query letter to a specific editor, and your chances of getting a favorable response are not bad--certainly no worse than your chances of getting a favorable response from an agent. But have someone in mind: "Dear Editor" or "To Whom it May Concern" are the kiss of death

Good luck.

[jeffrey1949]

Susan,
There's no need to be pedantic, this is a post not an editing class. But if you want to be that way, fine. I don't have time for it personally. I joined this site for postive feedback and interest in writing, not tit for tat.

I can tell you that Artifact of Deception has already sold over 100 copies, and in the next year or more I project it well sell 300 (and no, I don't have that many friends or relatives). Doctorate in Death just came out this past Spring, so I don't have sales figures yet.

My best,
Jeffrey

[Kasey Mackenzie]

Er...38,000 or 300 copies...which sounds preferable? I know which one I'd choose...

[Sheryl Nantus]

and yet...

how many MORE copies would you have sold if you had gone with a real publisher?

my first novel was accepted, without agent, by Mundania Press and is coming out next year. I haven't paid them a dime for editing nor do I expect to. I didn't pay ANYONE to edit my manuscript before sending it to them.

PA is a scam and sucks in both good books and bad - before you proclaim again "I'm doing it for the love, not the money" think this over - you may not aim to get rich by writing, but you're not supposed to go into DEBT doing it. How much money have you given to PA?

again - you CAN get published without an agent and you CAN get an agent without paying the agent OR an editor. Scammers are a dime a dozen out there and PA is just one of many who want your money, not your work.

[blacbird]

The issue is more than a simple one of numbers. It's a matter of respect, both of others for your work, and of yourself for your work. If you set the limbo bar at eight feet, you won't have any trouble slipping under it, but what kind of real accomplishment is that? You are short-changing yourself, insulting the integrity of your own work by going to a place which would print your grocery lists if you submitted them. Whoopee.

caw.