How would you handle this? (A bit of a vent.)

[dahmnait]

My client has made three comments now regarding my honesty as a businessperson.

1) They told my contact that if they offered me a short-term position that he would need to keep close contact with my progress as having the position would not give me incentive to complete the work. (He probably shouldn't have told me this.)

2) In a meeting with me, and speaking in the third person, said that working on an hourly basis does not give me incentive to complete the job. (They originally stated that they wanted the hourly time in order to move ahead with the project.)

3) When I stated in my most recent quote that if the actual time is less than the quoted time I will only charge for the actual time spent, they made the comment that they are taking it on "good faith" that I will follow through. This is standard text in all my quotes. As is the part about re-quoting if the project standards change.

Ok, so I am not going to do anything except give them the best possible work, in the most efficient manner. I guess I just need to vent a little. I figure that they either have bad business practices themselves (which I doubt), or they have been burned in the past. I was just floored that they were questioning my business practices in this manner. I haven't done them wrong yet, nor do I plan to do so. I have already completed two projects for them that took less time than I quoted and my invoice reflected the lower amount.

Ok, vent time over. Thanks for listening.

[Tish Davidson]

Wow, if you have already completed two projects under budget for them, you have a reason to feel offended. My guess is that they take advantage of their clients and assume that everyone does business that way. Ugly!

[Good Word]

I think very regular documented updates (as in email) as to your progress and issues along the way will keep you CYA, and maybe make them feel better. Keep them in the loop, totally. They are being absurd, especially after your earlier successes with them.

I'll wager that they feel a bit out of control, and can't gauge the scope of the project themselves. Is it possible that they feel a bit at your mercy?
--This is just a shot in the dark, btw. I don't really know what the project is. Is it tech writing (vs. editing)?

[JennaGlatzer]

That is annoying. I think I might say to them, "I've already completed two projects for you under budget and on time... maybe you don't mean to come across this way, but it sounds to me like you're waiting for me to do something wrong. I would appreciate a bit more trust about my business ethics."

Of course, that's taking a risk, but I think the distrust would bug me enough to take that risk.

[ATP]

Based on what you have described, and the comments of TD, GW and JG, my assessment is that a red flag has been raised here.

To whit:
i) unwarranted attitude in the face of the evidence;

ii) distrust evinced - resulting in undermining your work and standing as a professional service provider, while nothing to the contrary indicated.

You have completed the work, and they have paid in full? Then, time to cut them loose. You may not like it, they may have even been 'great' clients, but no longer, not with this.No statement on your part is going to 'heal' the 'wound' they've already inflicted.

TD's comment presages a pretty good understanding of the context and sub-text.You're in early days of your business - one of the things that is important in any business, large or small, but especially small, is the ability to recognise a red flag when you see one. It behooves us all to know when indications have been made, to become especially sensitive to them, and act on them. It is not like a marriage where there is the commitment, and the 'investment' warrants that we ignore or downplay the 'warning signs'. You don't sound like you've become 'attached' to them, so it would be easier to 'disengage'.

To put it bluntly, they may have even done the job for you, giving some credence to Tish's statement. Though she put it more politely, you have to realise that perhaps these people might simply be bastards, and treat all people as such.

[Good Word]

I don't think it's time to cut them loose at all. Sometimes when you are starting out you have to deal with stuff like this, although it is important to address it. In fact, even when you've been in business for awhile, you still have to address these kinds of things.

In fact, if Tammy decides to revisit the issue (Jenna had some good words) they could end up respecting her a whole lot more, and never mention it again. If she brought it up and they stayed wierd, THEN maybe not do any more work. But I wouldn't go that far just yet!

[Fern]

I agree with Good Word. You seem to be on the right track:

Ok, so I am not going to do anything except give them the best possible work, in the most efficient manner.

Could be they are skeptical due to past experience; could be the boss is just an a$$, or could be he is overly cautious to make sure he is covered. As my Mom used to say about someone treating you badly, "kill them with kindness". . .or in your case it would be with honesty and impeccable business practices.

The next time a remark is made, call them on it. . ."Are you suggesting I've been less than honest in my dealings with you?"

Sometimes those clients who are skeptical in the beginning, end up being the best, most supportive, clients you have, once you've proven yourself in their estimation.

[oarsman]

When I work for a client, I try to do my best to ignore comments like you got. But there are times when it gets in the way of performing the work and becomes a major issue (then you need to address it).

I've had many clients that were burned by other individuals in the past, so it is not surprising that they are insecure about trusting people. I had one client that always questioned my estimates and asked me to email a detailed status every day. It was a pain, but they paid me for the time I spent writing the status report. Eventually, they stopped asking me to write the daily status and treated me like I was a member of their staff. About a year later, they commented that I was worth every penny they were spending on me. I was also the first non-employee ever invited to their employee Christmas party (so I guess I won their trust).

[ATP]

I don't think it's time to cut them loose at all. Sometimes when you are starting out you have to deal with stuff like this, although it is important to address it. In fact, even when you've been in business for awhile, you still have to address these kinds of things. !

What are you suggesting here? That she take it, or cop it sweet, as we say in Australia?


In fact, if Tammy decides to revisit the issue (Jenna had some good words) they could end up respecting her a whole lot more, and never mention it again. If she brought it up and they stayed wierd, THEN maybe not do any more work. But I wouldn't go that far just yet!

You're missing the point. She apparently gave them no reason to do so in the beginning. It is not just a case of a minor irritating remark made here, half said in jest. They have implied that she is not trustworthy, and have said as much to a third party.What do you suggest? They undertake communication exercises here? 'What we have here is a failure to communicate' ?
Stuff and nonsense. Her character and professionalism have been impugned seemingly without provocation. There is a question as to whether one of the firm saying so to a third party outside the firm is actually legal - it might amount to a case of slander.

Depending on how much you need them/the work, my suggestion stands - cut them loose.

[dahmnait]

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the feedback and advice.

I should have mentioned that it is important that I keep this client right now, so any drastic measures on my part is not option yet. Given their attitude though, I did check out the company to get a feel for their business practices. As far as I have found, they have a good reputation. Add that to the fact that they have been very good about paying promptly, and right now I feel comfortable keeping them as a client.

Good Word, I think you nailed it, they may feel a bit out of control with the scope of the project. They have 60+ products that need to be documented. I also turned down their offer of full time employment. (They just couldn't offer enough money to compensate for the loss of other clients.) Since I have one more bid to give them I will have to address this issue somehow.

In my last bid I did thank them again for the offer of employment, expressed my regret at not being able to accept their offer, and basically said that my commitment to my clients is to do the most effective and efficient job regardless of my employment status. That was before they made the third comment though, so I have no idea how they really took my comments.

However, if they bring it up again I will definitely call them on it. So far, they have been very happy with my work, at least that is what they are telling me. Hopefully, it will blow over as they get a better feel for my business practices.

I will keep in mind all the good advice and comments, and just hope that I don't need to take any of the advice.

Argh...people! (Not you guys, you all are great.)

Thanks again.

[Good Word]

Aha! That IS it, then. And why I was thinking it was tech writing more than editing. They really don't have a sense of the amount of time it takes to document certain products, but no one ever does, really. The answer is "it takes what it takes" and you do the best with what you've got and the deadlines you are given. They feel that you might be getting away with overbilling if they feel like they made you a good offer. You turned them down, and they are a little embarassed and put out.

It might be a good idea to not only remind them that you came in on time and under budget, as Jenna mentioned, but be very gracious in thanking them for making you a full-time offer, that you would be interested in keeping the door open for future possibilities, but you made a big commitment to yourself to be a successful contractor/freelancer, etc.

But: A good offer includes insurance and other benefits that a freelancer usually doesn't get, so if you really did want to consider it, make sure you look at it in the round.

Congrats, Tammy, on the job offer. :)

[miles111]

I'd approach it from a different angle. I've sold various products and services to business owners for decades. During that time, I've seen how often business owners deal with people who are just trying to 'get in their pockets.' Some of these vendors and media types turn out to be less than honest, some are simply incompetent. It's hard to blame business people for becoming skeptical.

People with no background in sales may feel that once a client signs buys one product or service he will remain a client forever. Not so. Getting a contract signed is just the beginning, IMO, a client has to be resold (in subtle ways) at every opportunity, for as long as the relationship continues. The nature of the selling job changes, but it never ends. It is always necessary to the maintenance of the relationship.

If you've completed two acceptable assignments and your client is still showing signs that he doesn't trust you, It's likely he hasn't been completely sold. I would point out, in a friendly way, that two previous assignments have been brought in under budget. And I would assure him that you will always work with *his* best interests in mind, because you know that if you help *him* succeed, he will help *you* succeed.

But my real focus would be on 'completing' the sale, on getting to know the decision makers better. Getting to know their needs, and especially, trying to fully understand their expectations. They're not the same thing. It's possible to deliver a fine product and still *not* meet customer expectations, if you don't know the difference. I would say cementing the relationship is crucial if you expect to have an ongoing business relationship with this client.

Before throwing this client under the bus, keep in mind that it is usually far easier to resell a present client than to find a new one. And if you can turn this relationship around it may become a solid, profitable and long lasting one.

In the end, producing good work is just the ante. People buy, and continue to buy, from people they like and trust.

Gosh, I just reread my post and it sounds like I should take up a collection for a soap box. I apologize if that's how it came off. I'm trying to learn how to write. And I happen to love sales, and working with business owners. Maybe I feel that way because I've seen, close up, their daily struggles and the risks they take. And because I've spent years trying to understand my own clients and their needs.

This post probably tells me some important things about where I should focus my own writing efforts. Thanks for starting this thread. : )

[dahmnait]

I hope I was gracious enough refusing their offer. I actually would have been in the hole every month if I has accepted it, and it was for short-term contract work. I cruched the numbers, just in case.

I also figured what their actual cost would be with me as an employee and found that, with their overhead, they had close to the same payout. But on my end I would be putting more money out, if that makes sense. Not to mention that I would be out the time for my other clients and it would be harder for me to handle marketing time. I didn't put the numbers down for them since I think it would have come across wrong.

I should focus on the fact that they liked my work enough to offer me employment and keep delivering quality services. In time, hopefully it blows over.

Thanks.

[dahmnait]

Miles:

I fully agree with what you have written. I have 11 years experience working directly with small businesses. In some ways that is helping now, but I wasn't in charge of sales. However, I did sell my clients on future services when I could. Because of this experience, I totally understand what you mean by once a client does not always assure that they will always be a client. I don't think I have ever really run across such blatant mistrust though.

Going by what you wrote, the real issue here is will be getting to know the decision makers. I have sold my contacts in the company, but the end-all decision makers are harder to pin down (and they are the ones making the comments.)

This is the line I have been looking for, And I would assure him that you will always work with *his* best interests in mind, because you know that if you help *him* succeed, he will help *you* succeed.This is what I have been trying to portray to them. I know it is a concept that they can understand and appreciate. Again, hopefully it is just a matter of time. This is a good contact into the manufacturing industry and I would really like to reach a point where they are recommending me to business associates.

Thanks.

[miles111]

Hello, dahmnait,
You said that you had long experience, but it wasn't primarily in sales (if I read your post correctly). Then you wrote:

Going by what you wrote, the real issue here is will be getting to know the decision makers. I have sold my contacts in the company, but the end-all decision makers are harder to pin down (and they are the ones making the comments.)

Here are a couple of things to consider:
You can run into this kind of problem any time you have layers of people to deal with. It is always best if you can meet with the top decision maker. There is probably ONE person who has the final decision. This is the person who has to be sold on the deal in order for this to be a secure situation. Because it is he or she who can cut you loose on a moment's notice, regardless of what your contacts want, or how much they like you. The *real* decision maker is the guy you want to get on your side. Your contacts know who this is, and they can probably help you, if they want to (if they're secure, it won't be a problem).

If you go this route (I would), you have to handle it carefully. Be sure to get your contact(s) solidly on your side, first. You certainly *do not* want them thinking you're making an end-run around them—that would definitely work against you. They have to know you're all working on this together.

Maybe you and your current contacts can set up a small informal meeting with the real decision maker. The idea could be to 'brief' the decision maker and go over any questions he has, and ask if there are any ideas *he* considers important and wants included. This should work in your favor, and make a good impression with the dm, because it'll show you want to do the job right. And they should understand that the more you know about their real needs and expectations, the better you can do your work.

BTW, you certainly aren't alone in this. This is one of the most difficult problems salesmen have to deal with. It never gets easy, but, in time you learn some things that help smooth the way. IMO, this is the best way to lock down a deal. A committment from the receptionist means nothing. : )

[dahmnait]

I was going to explain a little about this company and then deleted what I wrote. I forgot to add it back as I edited my previous post.

This company is a bit different from others I have worked with. The managers basically run the company and the owners come in on a part time basis. I believe they are in the process of turning all decision making over to the management team, but they are not quite there.

The businesses I have dealt with have been small enough that the owners were very hands-on and I am used to dealing with the decision makers directly. The only other time this particular situation has come up was after I had been contracting my services with a company for 2 years. So I was already well established with them.

My initial meeting was with the owners, and I have had other meetings with them as well. However, the majority of my contact is with the management team. My main contact with the company, as decided by the owners, is one of the managers. The manager is the one who contacts them and forwards on my progress reports as well as his own. My meetings with the owners have primarily been contract negotiation with some progress reporting. They are just not available, nor do I believe that they want to be available, for much more than this. I should be meeting with them again when I have the next project spec'd out. I do like your advice. I will request a meeting with them when I have the completed specs. Just in case the plan does not include a meeting with me.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Sorry if my posts don't give enough information the first time around. It's been a long day.