Twilight, by Stephanie Meyer

[Krystella]

This book is extremely good! Especially if you like vampire romance books. And it has some action and suspense too. I really couldn't put this book down and was so glad the my friends had recommended it to me! It's unbelieveable, and her sequel to it comes out in October I believe. So if you can, READ IT!!!

~Krystal

P.S. And here is her link!!! http://www.stepheniemeyer.com/

[scarletpeaches]

I'm about halfway through this at the moment and something's bugging me.

I don't know (yet) exactly how old Edward is, but the author expects us to believe he can fall in love with a sixteen year old girl. Why? That'd be like your great-great-great grandfather in a teen's body falling in love with a child. What would an old vampire see in a young kid? Why is he still going to school?

And I don't get WHY he loves her. Their exchanges have, up to this point, been nothing more than Edward saving Bella's life a couple of times and while this can lead to an emotional connection between people, you'd think it would be HER becoming dependent on him. I just can't accept this instant love-at-first-sight nonsense. How could he possibly love her when he didn't know her personality? Sure, he spent a few days asking her all about herself but that was more like a game of truths rather than really getting to know her.

Can vampires really fall irrevocably in love with someone after speed-dating?

It reads as far too contrived for my liking. Sure, I like vampire stories but I certainly don't think this book's all it's cracked up to be.

Maybe my gripes will be explained later on in the novel.

[aadams73]

Yup, some of them will be explained later on, including why he's attracted to Bella.

Don't get me started on the third book. I hated it as much as I loved the first.

[scarletpeaches]

I just get cooties at the thought of love at first sight.

When someone says they love their partner, I want to ask, "Why? What is it about them? What admirable qualities do they possess?"

And a 104-yr-old who's seen the world falling in love with a 16,17-yr-old...yeah, right. Sorry, my suspension of disbelief just flew out the window with that one.

Well, at least it's helped me figure out something that's always bugged me about vampire novels. Why does the female MC always have to fall in love with one? I guess it's easy to understand on her part - the glamour of the undead and all that...but why does the vampire always have to fall in love with the female MC?

"You're my life now." Oh, right. You're 104 years old and you've known her five minutes. Oh-kay. That's believable.

[VictoriaLambert]

I *heart* that author!

I was introduced to her work via my students. I'm a High School teacher who teaches Language Arts and I always like to inquire about which books are currently holding my kids' interest.

Well, they were floored by Twilight and after I read the novel (myself) I can certainly see why. They've even created all these websites in honor of her characters and the imaginative world she has built.

BTW, she has quite a few helpful links for writers trying to get published on her website. It's really rather neat. I find her very humbling in the way she speaks of her successes. She's certainly on my dream list of authors I'd like to meet should my own work ever see publication. LoL :)

[reenkam]

Yup, some of them will be explained later on, including why he's attracted to Bella.

Don't get me started on the third book. I hated it as much as I loved the first.

What didn't you like about the third book? I thought it was a lot better than the second, which had a lot of dragging in the middle, IMHO...


And a 104-yr-old who's seen the world falling in love with a 16,17-yr-old...yeah, right. Sorry, my suspension of disbelief just flew out the window with that one.

Have you finished the book? It explains why he loves her like he does. It doesn't really explain why she loves him, but it becomes clearer in the next books.

And, from what I can tell, even though he's lived for a long time, it's not like he's actually that old within himself. As in, it seems like whatever age you become a vampire, you kind of stick to the age, even when you learn more, experience more, etc.

But maybe I'm just making excuses...

[aadams73]

What didn't you like about the third book? I thought it was a lot better than the second, which had a lot of dragging in the middle, IMHO...



Highlight to reveal spoilers:

I really hated the love triangle, even though I could see it coming. I hated that Bella became so Too Stupid To Live and whiny. And I hated that Edward became a caricature of himself, when he was so much more well developed and likable in the first two.

[reenkam]

Highlight to reveal spoilers:

[which I had to delete because they become visible...]


Highlight to reveal spoilers here, too...

Oh, yeah, I do agree with you. I couldn't stand the love triangle, actually. I kind of hoped Jacob would die, but he didn't. And you're right about Bella, too. I don't really enjoy her as a main character. I don't really like Edward so much, either. I really just read for Alice...

[VictoriaLambert]

"I never thought I’d see the day where I’d be willing to take a bet against you, Alice, but it has arrived.” — Bella Swan :)

[Danger Jane]

Honestly, I didn't really like Twilight that much...it was okay, but when I thought about it afterwards...it just bugged me. It seems like this huge wish-fulfillment novel that happens to fulfill the wishes of a lot of teenage girls, too.

What I couldn't stomach were the pages and pages Meyer spent describing the beautiful vampires. It just went on and on. And the suspense at the end...seemed a little tacked-on because, well, it came out of nowhere.

[scarletpeaches]

Oh for god's sake.

I just read the part where Edward wipes away Bella's tears and tastes one.

This makes me want to hurt someone.

[Danger Jane]

Well yeah. That's why I'm not reading the others.

[Legionsynch]

As my roommate and I discussed, the first book suffered from adverb hell a lot. The second and third got a lot better in this regard, but I wasn't as huge a fan of the third as I was of the first two.

[Xx|e|ph|e|me|r|al|xX]

Xx|I've heard much about this. It's so tempting to read them. Even though they don't sound interesting other than the vampire aspect, my curiosity is insatiable.

The vampires are interesting because, well, Whisper's 3 MCs are vamps. It's strange how many romance stories there are about vampires, though. Whisper's not at all romance (well, subtle hints between Michel and his kids' nanny, but mainly to add some purpose to his life XD. It's not central at all). I dunno. I'd love to meet and fall in love with a guy who's philosophical and beautiful, but if he's a vampire, especially one who's been around hundreds of years, I would just befriend him. I don't get the appeal. More so, why would a hundred-or-more year-old vampire love a girl so very young? He may be caught at the mental/emotional age of early twenties, but he's still got a lot of baggage that couldn't go over well with (most, at least,) teenagers.

I'll probably end up checking this out anyway. :tongue|xX

[scarletpeaches]

I'm a bit of a Magnus Magnusson when it comes to books. If I start one, I'll finish it. :D

Because it's vampirey, I'll keep an eye out for the sequels but let's just say I'll check with the library first, before buying.

Also, I'm learning more and more about why my trunk novel remains a trunk novel. But...I have to confess, it annoys me to think other writers have filled their vampire books chock-full of cliches and they get published and I don't!

[scarletpeaches]

Well, finished it yesterday. Maybe it was what brought on my migraine, heh heh.

Seriously, though, it was okay. Not the best vampire book out there, but entertaining. I still don't get why 104-year-old Edward would fall in love with 17-year-old Bella, though, no matter how 'interesting' she smells. That's a bugbear of mine the novel doesn't explain.

And not just this one, but most other vampire novels that have a centuries-old vampire falling in love with a mortal, young woman.

It's the ultimate in age-difference relationships I just don't get, and a sin I committed in my trunk novel. I think this very issue is the main reason my first completed book was so very, very bad. One of the reasons, anyway.

[David McAfee]

(Apologies to Maprilynne, but I gotta share this)

I did an experiment with Twilight at around page 250.

I opened the book to eight random pages (I didn't hit any pages after 250 because I didn't want to spoil anything I hadn't read), and checked to see if there was a reference on them as to how incredibly good looking Edward is.

The result: on 6 of those 8 pages there was at least some reference to his beauty. On one of those 6 there were actually two such references.

The constant reminders of Edward's extraordinary good looks were very jarring to me. He's a babe. I get it. Move on.

Now, having said that, I did enjoy Meyers' writing, and the descriptions of Forks were well done. But when it comes down to it, Twilight really isn't much of a book for a 34 year old man, although I can see why so many teenage girls (which are the book's intended market, after all) adore it.

Good writing, but just not for me.

[Will Lavender]

I still don't get why 104-year-old Edward would fall in love with 17-year-old Bella...

Because that places the book in YA, which is crucial for that particular series.

[scarletpeaches]

I know it's YA. But the 104-year-old falling in love with a 17-year-old makes no sense. What could he possibly see in her? It just doesn't wash. It'd work better if Bella was older and the book wasn't YA in my opinion. And why would a vampire go to school?

[Will Lavender]

I know it's YA. But the 104-year-old falling in love with a 17-year-old makes no sense. What could he possibly see in her? It just doesn't wash. It'd work better if Bella was older and the book wasn't YA in my opinion. And why would a vampire go to school?

Would it sell if it weren't YA?

[scarletpeaches]

Who knows? But it'd be slightly more believable.

[Legionsynch]

I've got to agree with scarletpeaches. It was one of the few things that bothered me about Buffy also.

It's one of those things that's just accepted in the YA market though.

[Esopha]

I'm about fifty pages in, and I've stopped to read some other stuff. Why? Edward bugs me. I hate those all-knowing vampire types. I would have personally smacked that boy upside the head a long, long time ago.

[Maprilynne]

Aww, David, you don't have to apologize to me. It's my friend's book, not mine and I would never begrudge anyone their opinion. (However, her name is spelled StephEnie, not StephAnie.)

I really enjoyed Twilight and I personally think Eclipse is the best int he series. I'm not a huge fan of New Moon in comparison. I do think it drags in the middle. However, that is because I don't love Jacob. (Stephenie loves Jacob though . . . obviously.:)) I remember there was a review at one time that referred to Stephenie's writing as immature and Stephenie agreed. She was like, sure, It's my first book. Sp yes, there are a lot of adverbs and non "traditional writing." But the thing that has really made it sell is that teenage girls can relate to it. And what teenage girl doesn't want this perfect hot guy to come sweep then off their feet.:)

It's not a perfect series by any stretch of the imagination and it is not "literary." But it has that spark, that je ne sais qua and I certainly don't resent her success.

Or her recommendation of me to her fabulous agent . . . now my fabulous agent. *Big Grin*

[Writer14]

<.<
>.>
I absolutely adore
the entire series.

Book 3 is sad. Some parts of it made me sick.

Bleh.=[

[katiemac]

Digging this up -- my roommate and I picked these up, since we'd both been interested in them for awhile. I just finished the second; she's in the middle of the third (I need her to finish so I can steal the book from her).

I'm pretty disappointed with them, though, overall. I think my biggest gripe is the same as ScarletPeaches -- I don't get why they love each other. At all. I also find Bella to be lacking in personality, in addition to being a bit stupid -- I've reached the part where she wants to trade her mortality for him, but thinks she's too young to get married. That doesn't make sense!

We'll read through Eclipse just because we've gone this far. I'm hoping it ends better than it began.

[reenkam]

Digging this up -- my roommate and I picked these up, since we'd both been interested in them for awhile. I just finished the second; she's in the middle of the third (I need her to finish so I can steal the book from her).

I'm pretty disappointed with them, though, overall. I think my biggest gripe is the same as ScarletPeaches -- I don't get why they love each other. At all. I also find Bella to be lacking in personality, in addition to being a bit stupid -- I've reached the part where she wants to trade her mortality for him, but thinks she's too young to get married. That doesn't make sense!

We'll read through Eclipse just because we've gone this far. I'm hoping it ends better than it began.

I'm just going to go ahead and say that Eclipse is probably going to make you pretty mad...

I do like the books, though. Even if I don't like Jacob. Or Bella, sometimes. Alice is fun. I hope she writes a book about Alice sometime...

[katiemac]

I read the description of her next book, an adult novel to be published in the spring. I have to admit it sounds pretty interesting, so hopefully I have a better shot with that one than I do these.

I'm curious, though... my roommate and I are over the age group for these books, so we couldn't quite figure this out: Bella is so completely absorbed with Edward, it seems obessively so, that it's one of the reasons we couldn't figure out a) why she loves him and b) what her personality is without him. Are teenage girls who read these books all swooning over Edward? Is it something we're missing, or is it the dark-and-beautiful vampire thing? To be honest, it was a little scary to read something so popular where this girl is so completely absorbed in Edward she'll give up her entire life for him.

In contrast, for example, with Buffy, who had a kick-ass personality all on her own. She would have died to save Angel, yes, but she would never give up who she was.

[Danger Jane]

I read the description of her next book, an adult novel to be published in the spring. I have to admit it sounds pretty interesting, so hopefully I have a better shot with that one than I do these.

I'm curious, though... my roommate and I are over the age group for these books, so we couldn't quite figure this out: Bella is so completely absorbed with Edward, it seems obessively so, that it's one of the reasons we couldn't figure out a) why she loves him and b) what her personality is without him. Are teenage girls who read these books all swooning over Edward? Is it something we're missing, or is it the dark-and-beautiful vampire thing? To be honest, it was a little scary to read something so popular where this girl is so completely absorbed in Edward she'll give up her entire life for him.

In contrast, for example, with Buffy, who had a kick-ass personality all on her own. She would have died to save Angel, yes, but she would never give up who she was.

Well, I was never a huge fan...too much navel-gazing for me, honestly. And yeah, like peaches said, it's illogical. And yeah, like Katie said, who IS Bella?

But I know a lot of teenage girls are rabid about it. I think it comes down to Edward being a sexy vampire and to Bella having such a non-personality that like, almost every lovelorn teenage girl on the planet can put herself in the center of the story as Bella.

[wuzupbling22]

I like the series. I think I'm one of the minority of males that do.

[Viral]

I greatly disliked the book, for a few different reasons. I found the plot to be really, really annoying. Everything was too easy to predict, and when I can call the upcoming shots just as easily as a movie I've seen a thousand times, there's a problem. I also really, really, really, ... REALLY dislike Bella. I can't stomach her character. It disgusts me to the point where I feel like I'm covered in filth :P Whiny girl types don't click with me at all, and especially not ones dependent on their men. I like strong central characters.

[lympha]

The only thing that irritates ME is that Bella wouldn't become a vampire already.

Let's just say that I am re-reading the three books, and I'm in the middle of Eclipse right now.

It is not only original but... I just feel it. I like books I can feel. If I can't feel anything at all for the characters, then I get bored, like reading a lecture or something.

I just want to add how amazing it is that Stephenie Meyer did not write before, and she suddenly had this dream, and... well, turned it into a best-seller. And her style is so good! It's amazing how natural it was to her, the writing process.

Anyway, can't wait for the fall release of the next one. I hope this time Bella gets to have her way...

[TrickyFiction]

Afterthought warning, since the thread is titled after the first book: possible spoilers through book three in this post.

Resurrection time. :)

I know I'm late getting to these. I'm reading the third book now. I'm almost done and I have to whine. Obviously, I loved them enough to read all three, but part of me wants to kick this brick because...

Who are these people? Especially, who is this "Jacob" person and what did he do with the Jacob l got to know in book two? Seriously. Is he trying to be more like Edward? That's the only rationalization I have. Maybe he's thinking, Bella likes controlling, aggressive guys, so I'll go that route from now on.

And Bella, I'm having trouble with understanding her. She seems to act as the plot demands and not at all believably. This is troublesome to me. I was really enjoying these. If I quit now, I'll just have way too much time to write... or post.

But I'll probably read all the way through, hoping things change, hoping Jacob goes back to normal and I don't have to skim over the passages about Grandpa Edward's marble perfection as often. I'll feel a little jaded if things don't turn around soon though.

Oh... and... "imprinting"? Isn't that what humans do with geese in order to observe migration? This is the ultimate werewolf love? If Jacob "imprints" on someone other than Bella now, I'm just going to see it as an easy way to get rid of the triangle. Disappointment will ensue.

Sorry... thanks for the opportunity to vent. I really didn't want to have to blog about it.

[Disdainful Soul]

When I was discussing these books with a few people, we eventually described the Twilight saga as follows: "it's like finding a box of two year old chocolates in the cupboard, and they still look good. So you eat them. And while you're eating them you don't care how awful it is, because hey, it's chocolate! But once you finish it all you can think of is the two year old factor, and regret it.

But that doesn't stop you from doing the exact same thing the moment you find the next box of old chocolate."

Apart from the fact that these vampires aren't really vampires in my eyes (they're more Vampire Lite, or I Can't Believe They're Meant To Be Vampires), the main problem for me is that, even after three books, we have no idea who Bella is. First person gives us the chance to see directly into a character's brain, and when I looked into Bella's brain I saw... nothing. Absolutely nothing, except for "OMG EDWARD IS PErFECT... I don't deserve someone as wonderful as him..." Eventually it got to be "300th verse, same as the first" for me.

Oh... and... "imprinting"? Isn't that what humans do with geese in order to observe migration? This is the ultimate werewolf love? If Jacob "imprints" on someone other than Bella now, I'm just going to see it as an easy way to get rid of the triangle. Disappointment will ensue.

Imprinting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprinting_(psychology)) is a psychological thing. You probably know it best as a young animal learning the face of its parent. Meanwhile imprinting in Twilight is just creepy. Especially Quil and Claire (and the reactions - a few moments of shock and then "Hey everyone, it's okay!").

[TrickyFiction]

When I was discussing these books with a few people, we eventually described the Twilight saga as follows: "it's like finding a box of two year old chocolates in the cupboard, and they still look good. So you eat them. And while you're eating them you don't care how awful it is, because hey, it's chocolate! But once you finish it all you can think of is the two year old factor, and regret it.

But that doesn't stop you from doing the exact same thing the moment you find the next box of old chocolate."

That analogy couldn't be more perfect.

Imprinting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprinting_(psychology)) is a psychological thing. You probably know it best as a young animal learning the face of its parent. Meanwhile imprinting in Twilight is just creepy. Especially Quil and Claire (and the reactions - a few moments of shock and then "Hey everyone, it's okay!").

I see. Thanks. :)
And yes, I agree that a sexually mature man choosing a two-year-old for a mate is creepy.

[Disdainful Soul]

And yes, I agree that a sexually mature man choosing a two-year-old for a mate is creepy.

That's the problem with love as shown in the Twilightverse - no free will, for the imprinter or the imprinted (there was no question that, when she was old enough, Claire would not want Quil, because he would love her and so of course she would love him back). From what we've seen of Quil there is no way he would have chosen a toddler.

But what really bothers me is that Quil is supposed to be there for her as she grows up, first as big brother, then as friend, and then as lover. If I were Claire I would be really disturbed by the fact that this guy was being my big brother only to want to get in my pants when I am legal. If I were Quil I'd stay away until she was an adult, capable of making her own choices, and come to her then. That way there won't be any "taint" or confusion of the relationship. Still not a perfect solution, but much better in my eyes.

[TrickyFiction]

That's the problem with love as shown in the Twilightverse - no free will, for the imprinter or the imprinted (there was no question that, when she was old enough, Claire would not want Quil, because he would love her and so of course she would love him back).

Yes, that kind of made me go, "Eh?" The whole, no one could resist the love of an imprinted wolf-boy. I remember being a young teenager and having the idea that if you love someone enough, all the obstacles, including my love being unrequited, would disappear. Now, I know that's just not how reality works.

I'm hoping Meyer addresses that in the future. Sometimes, no amount of perfect love will get you loved back. That's why I want Jacob to imprint on Bella, or at least love her enough to resist whoever gets chosen for him. He needs to love her as much as Edward does, IMO. And then, one of them has to lose. Because you do lose, in life. I've been the loser before, which is why I don't want to read a book where the loser loses because "he just didn't love her enough," or "as much as the other guy," or whatever.

[Disdainful Soul]

Sadly, Jacob hasn't imprinted on Bella, and as such he never will. According to SMeyer, imprinting occurs the first time a wolf sees the "victim" after the first time they shift, and since Jacob couldn't tell Bella what was really up with him, it means that he didn't imprint on her.

One of the things I got from the Twilight series is a very skewed and in a way scary image of what "perfect and true" love should be like. And that is why I really don't like it.

[TrickyFiction]

Sadly, Jacob hasn't imprinted on Bella, and as such he never will. According to SMeyer, imprinting occurs the first time a wolf sees the "victim" after the first time they shift, and since Jacob couldn't tell Bella what was really up with him, it means that he didn't imprint on her.

Ah, lame. I was kinda hoping he'd been hiding it from her all this time. Oh well.

One of the things I got from the Twilight series is a very skewed and in a way scary image of what "perfect and true" love should be like. And that is why I really don't like it.

I'm glad I'm not alone there.
Well, I'm off to finish reading it now. :(

[txgrl]

I loved the first one, I mean like a foaming-at-the-mouth-wanting-more love. Then I got mad at the second one, I literally threw it against the wall, I read through knowing (a.k.a hoping) that Edward would come back. The middle of New Moon was/is just boring! What's the point? Okay so you get the background of some things, like Jake and the pack, but why? I have not and probably will not re-read New Moon, it's not worth it for me.
Eclipse just really really burned my behind, I almost didn't finnish reading it (which is saying alot for a rabid fan girl), why on earth does she keep going back and forth and back and forth between the two guys? seriously, come on, wake up girly!!
anyways, sorry, thats my rant.

[darrtwish]

It makes me sad to read these comments about people not liking the series, and such. Then again, you're entitled to your own opinion about books. Personally, I ADORE the series. I love the Cullens to death (no pun intended), especially Jasper. I'll admit that I did get mad at the characters (particularly Jacob, whom I hate), and frequently screamed at them during the course of reading the novels (Yes, I really am obsessed like that), but they are the best books I've ever read. I believe that her loving Jacob, and the setup between choosing between the two was necessary to show Bella what her life would be like if she chose Jacob, even though in the end she realises she can't be without Edward. I ADORE and WORSHIP these books,characters, and this amazing author. I can't wait for Breaking Dawn to come out (Hello Midnight Release Parties!) :D

[Cereisa]

I'm a Jacob fan!!

I love Edward in the first book.He's [I]perfect[I]! I think he's everything a girl could ask for and maybe that's why the book is so popular. In the second book, I start to like Jake, but still like Edward more (only a bit, though).

But in the third, I become absolutely in love with Jake, and hate, hate, HATE Bella. She's become very very VERY whiny and UNlikeable. Sure, sure, her character develops, but for the worse. She's becoming more and more annoying since the first book.

Same thing happen to Edward. He's not boring when he's arguing with Jacob, but the rest.. UUUGGGHHH!!! So controlling, so overprotective. I wouldn't want someone to obsess over me like that, and I would never never NEVER want to obsess over someone like Edward or Bella do. That's not love, it's more like possessing something!!

I also didn't finish Eclipse, just skip over here and there, read about Jacob, then laugh or prick Bella's voodoo doll that I have in my hand, and then when it's finished, I was like, 'oh shit! That's 2 hours that I've spent!'

I will buy the fourth book, however, but that's because I want to know how would Bella die.

[Melenka]

Edward never struck me as perfect. He struck me as moody, manipulative, and self-absorbed. It makes sense that almost a hundred years on, a person could get that way. As near as I can tell, he is only attracted to her because she's his favorite kind of steak.

Bella has almost no personality and, while she is supposedly very smart (she even says so!), she does precious little independent thinking. I refuse to chalk that up to her being a teenaged girl, because I was one and I remember being curious, critical, opinionated, skeptical, and consumed with thoughts on just about everything around me. She seems an empty vessel, filled by others when they require her to be "daughter", "girlfriend", "meat", etc.

I can see why these books sell. Bella is a one-size fits all Mary Sue for young girls. What bothers me is the messages the books are sending - that there is only one person you can truly love, that it's okay to contemplate and even act on suicide after losing your (first!) boyfriend, that someone is going to come along and rescue you from yourself and make up your mind for you when you get into bad situations. I know that's an oft-used romance novel thing, but I don't know if I want an 11 year old girl to internalize that sort of fantasy - and they are reading this series.

Now, having said all that, I think there is a good story or two in there. I just think those stories belong to the Cullens and are told as asides.

[Pachydermia]

erm, I liked it. (and the second/third)
but I don't actually have a reason for liking it.
Edward to me was kind of needy, as was Jacob, but they were needy in different ways. They both wore on my nerves throughout the books, but I can't pinpoint exactly why.
And don't even get me started on Bella. Honestly, I am so tired of the heroine that is so in love that she ceases to function when her man is away- like a parasite.
I want Bella to grow a backbone.
and maybe some fangs, but that's the un-cynical fangirl in me.

[Pachydermia]

I can see why these books sell. Bella is a one-size fits all Mary Sue for young girls.
exactly.

[Disdainful Soul]

I can see why these books sell. Bella is a one-size fits all Mary Sue for young girls.

Yeah, she makes a very good reader avatar (as well as author) and so it is very easy for all these girls to pretend that Edward is in love with them, because it's so easy to insert yourself into Bella's place.

One theory, anyway.

[Harper K]

Yeah, she makes a very good reader avatar (as well as author) and so it is very easy for all these girls to pretend that Edward is in love with them, because it's so easy to insert yourself into Bella's place.

One theory, anyway.

Agreed (with you, and with Melenka's post, too). The part I found most representative of this? When Bella is doing homework, and she puts on a CD of a band her stepdad gave to her. She describes it in extremely vague terms, talks about how she eventually comes to love the band and listen to them regularly, and never bothers to name the band. This irked me. I like specificity in novels. Meyer might as well have put (reader, insert your favorite band name here!) at that point of the book.

I'm 28 and read and enjoy tons of YA novels. But Twilight was one of the few YA books I read recently where I felt like only a much younger version of myself would have really gotten into it.

[Disdainful Soul]

The part I found most representative of this? When Bella is doing homework, and she puts on a CD of a band her stepdad gave to her. She describes it in extremely vague terms, talks about how she eventually comes to love the band and listen to them regularly, and never bothers to name the band. This irked me. I like specificity in novels. Meyer might as well have put (reader, insert your favorite band name here!) at that point of the book.

If I remember correctly, someone asked what the band was, and SM said it was Linkin Park. But yeah, no specifics are given, as this was on her website.

Bella is a blank slate, defined solely by her relationships (or lack thereof) and with no interests outside Edward and becoming a vampire. She has no self, so she's very easy for a reader to add themselves to her.

[Pachydermia]

If I remember correctly, someone asked what the band was, and SM said it was Linkin Park.

well... that's unfortunate.
and here i was thinking maybe Bella at least had good music taste.
sigh.
she continues to disappoint.

[Moerae]

I'm not going to start on my opinions of the characters in Twilight. The thing that bothered me the most was the main character constantly whining about how much she hates the area she's living in.

I live in the Pacific Northwest, and yes, it is overcast a good amount of the time. Yes, it rains a lot, but not nearly as much as other areas like... Miami, Florida. Yeah, Seattle doesn't rain as much as people think it does, it's just overcast more often.

Now, while I can understand someone moving here from a sunny place like Arizona and not liking it. It would make sense for the character. But when the author feels the need to mention how absolutely horrible the weather is every other page, I start to get the feeling that this has nothing to do with the character, and everything to do with the author's personal opinions. To me, the number one rule of writing is that the author does not exist. If a person is reading a book and starts to hear the author screaming a particular point in their ear, then they won't be able to suspend disbelief for the rest of the book.

On a similar note, Stephanie Meyer has apparently never been to this area on a day that isn't overcast. There is actually a reason why the song says that, "The bluest skies are in Seattle."

Rant over. Carry on.

[Toothpaste]

I read it finally this past week. I can see why many teenagers (especially girls) enjoy it, and thought there were really lovely moments in it (personally I'd go for Dr. Cullen myself, but that's just me). But I truly couldn't figure out why it is THAT popular. It seemed very cliche to me, and I could not stand the first 200 pages when Edward was being so elusive in his answers. I get it. You have a secret. Intriguing for a few pages, but after that, he just became a bit of a smug know it all. My favourite moments were when Meyers just seemed to relax and had fun with her ideas, a bit of a sense of humour. I enjoyed Bella meeting the rest of the family immensely. And while I can accept that not every girl has to be kick ass (that actually can really get to me), it seemed like Bella missed out on a lot of her own story. The big final fight sequence? She's out cold.

I too had an issue with the weather thing. What got to me the most was Bella's hatred of snow. Now I get not liking the cold, but she claimed she had never experienced snow before, so how can she have so many firm opinions on it without having the experience? She knows she hates how wet it is when it melts, she understands what black ice is, and snow tire chains - how exactly? I know, silly small thing, but it bugged me.

[Tilda]

I agree with Toothpaste above; I can sort of see why teens are all over the books, but what surprises me is how little overall criticism there is of the books. Especially considering the writing, which to me reads like fanfiction and was the reason why I couldn't even finish the first book. Wasn't anyone else bothered by the extreme dialogue tags (I was hard-pressed to find instances of "said"!), or the plot that emerged only some 300 pages in and was over in a couple of pages? I admit I struggle a lot with this book since Meyer makes many of the beginner mistakes editors and agents constantly warn people of, yet she got published very quickly, nobody seems to have touched the weaknesses of the prose in the editing process (at least take out some of the most outrageous dialogue tags, folks), and no critics pick this issue up in reviews either (PW starred the book, among others). Yet some very well written YA books get less than praising reviews - I just don't get it, sorry. Seems that it's all about the hype, not about literary quality.

[Ol' 61]

I haven't read this book yet, but I think I'm interested in seeing the movie, so I will likely read it soon.

Interestingly, that's how I got into Harry Potter! But, just skimming over what some of you have written, I suspect Harry is far superior. Or maybe that's just my pre-conceived notion!

[Ugawa]

O man, i've started a vampire series which includes them going to a school. I'd never heard of this book before but now i have i can't really carry on with it because if i end up wanting to get it published people will say i've copied her

grr lol

XX

[E. Arroway]

It's definitely not just teens that enjoy the books - I'm closer to AARP age than my teen years and I thought that the whole series was fantastic, as did several of my adult friends.

It's absolutely true that if I were to put on my critic hat, I could find a lot to nitpick, but I didn't pick up these books expecting some awe-inspiring literary achievment. They're a great little escape - despite their length, you can read each one in a day, and probably will, as they are nearly impossible to put down.

It's just a fun mix - suspense, humor, romance, eroticism (the author is well aware that less can be more), an appealing clan of vampires, and a few werewolves thrown in for good measure. What's not to love?

I read fiction first and foremost to be entertained. These books did that, so I'm willing to forgive them their sins.

[Ugawa]

I hope i spelt her name right, i've only heard of the book since i joined the forum.


Well the book i was writing was also a vampire novel X.X

Now i've heard there's already a best-seller YA vampire novel, which is sill up and coming, i'm starting to think maybe i shouldn't carry on with my book.

I havn't read the book but i think i've caught the main part. That some girl falls in love with a vapire or something. My book is completely different, but still, if i do finish it, would it not get published because there's already one out there and i wouldn't want people to think i copied her. Even though i started it before i even knew she existed.

I'm not saying mine is anywhere near good enough to get published yet, but in the future i'd like to hope it might get somewhere

What should i do?.

XX

[Medievalist]

There are already scads of YA vampire novels, going back at least 15 years.

Don't let that stop you. Write the best book you can write.

[Ugawa]

Okay thank you

XX

[jannawrites]

I agree with Medievalist. If anything, the fact that Stephenie Meyer's books have been so successful shows there's a thriving market for them. Stick to your guns and once it's written you can worry about its place.

Good luck! :)

[Starwise]

There's something you very much need to know about the Twilight series. And Stephenie would probably say the same thing, too--

She was fortunate. You wouldn't believe how many editors these days would say, right now, that her book wouldn't even be touched by an agent. In fact, she mentioned that even after Little, Brown signed her with a 3-book deal, she received her WORST rejection ever in the mail one day from one agent she had queried quite awhile ago. Said agent stated that her book would never see publication. Too bad :-). 'Cause she already signed her 3-book deal for a $500,000 advance. Never see publication, indeed.

The moral is exactly what you've read so far from us--write the best book you can.

[kuwisdelu]

There have and always will be vampire stories. Just write a good one. Trust me, if won't be that hard to top Twilight.

[triceretops]

It seems the audience for vampires is inexhaustible. Just when they say they've run their course and agents prefer not to see them, look what happens.

Tri

[Ugawa]

Thank you all for your help ^^

I'll carry on with it, even if it never does get published

XX

[gypsyscarlett]

Thank you all for your help ^^

I'll carry on with it, even if it never does get published

XX


Good. Go for it! :)

And remember- "Dracula" wasn't the first vampire novel.

[billyf027]

Mant teens are extremely disappointed by the fourth book and are angry about it. They consider it a huge disappointment. But with the money she is getting from the movie and book sales she never has to write another book.

[Telstar]

But she is writing the 4th book ;)

[Ol' 61]

I agree with everyone else. Write the best book you can. Get it on paper and out of your head. And at this point, the only audience you need to write for is yourself.

[bethany]

Actually the 4th book is out. I haven't heard teens complaining about it. Many of the ones I work with say it's the best book they've ever read. :)

ETA- I've personally only read the first book, and probably won't read the rest, just a matter of too many books and too little time.

[Telstar]

Actually the 4th book is out. I haven't heard teens complaining about it. Many of the ones I work with say it's the best book they've ever read. :)

ETA- I've personally only read the first book, and probably won't read the rest, just a matter of too many books and too little time.

Dammit, i have to order it now, along with the third.
Not sure when i'll read them though ;) Probably after the movie.

[Toothpaste]

Actually it's very split, some teens think it is wonderful, some are saying it is a huge disappointment. I wouldn't know either way, I read the first one and that was enough for me.

(check out some of the amazon reviews, some are absolutely scathing! And entertainment weekly HATED it.)

[willietheshakes]

My wife (also a writer and reviewer) read all four of these in a 5 day blitz earlier this month. When I asked what she thought, when she was finished the first couple, she answered that she thought they were awful: the writing was bad, the characterizations were bad, the "message" (she's an educator as well) was disturbing...

But...

She couldn't stop. The narrative, and the relationships between the characters, had completely hooked her. She HAD to know how the series turned out.

Book crack -- you know it's bad, but you can't stop yourself.

[hlcorbin]

As (one of) your beta readers, i can tell you (i've read the entire twilight series) that your story doesnt read anything like twilight--completely different. Just keep writing and dont worry about any other books out there! Everbodys book will always have elements found in other books, just the way it goes

[Grrarrgh]

My wife (also a writer and reviewer) read all four of these in a 5 day blitz earlier this month. When I asked what she thought, when she was finished the first couple, she answered that she thought they were awful: the writing was bad, the characterizations were bad, the "message" (she's an educator as well) was disturbing...

But...

She couldn't stop. The narrative, and the relationships between the characters, had completely hooked her. She HAD to know how the series turned out.

Book crack -- you know it's bad, but you can't stop yourself.

Your wife is exactly right. I told my husband the same thing. I just couldn't stop reading them even though I recognized how bad they were while I was reading. I complained the whole time I was reading.
And I was one of the ones who absolutely hated the 4th one. It was awful.

[willietheshakes]

Your wife is exactly right. I told my husband the same thing. I just couldn't stop reading them even though I recognized how bad they were while I was reading. I complained the whole time I was reading.


We can call it the Mayer-Brown Effect.

[rosepddle]

As (one of) your beta readers, i can tell you (i've read the entire twilight series) that your story doesnt read anything like twilight--completely different. Just keep writing and dont worry about any other books out there! Everbodys book will always have elements found in other books, just the way it goes

I had someone who beta'd my book tell me that it reminded them of Twilight and it nearly gave me a heart attack. Not because I'd read Twilight and hated it, I hadn't even heard of it when she told me this, but my friend/beta was gushing over the book so much that I had to do some research. Well I saw all these fan sites and internet buzz about it so when my friend sent it to me, I had anxiety about reading it. What if it was like my book, my unpublished book? Should I just scrap this world that I'd created and loved because something else out there was like it?

I was pleased to see that there is NOTHING remotely similar in my book. My book isn't even about vampires! So for a long time I wondered why the heck my friend said that my book reminded her of Twilight? But then she told me that she loved Twilight and thought that I would see the comparison as a compliment. NOT! She had no clue that she'd caused be a few gray hairs and a possible ulcer. I guess my point is, if I'd simply given up on my book because I thought there was something out there that was wildly sucessful while my book lingered in the rough stages then I wouldn't have produced the best thing I've written to date. It doesn't matter if you have written a vampire novel when there are others out there. You may have a new twist on your Vampire...Stephenie Meyer did...her vampires sparkled. :D

[BarbaraKE]

Don't even get me started on the 'sparkled' thing. Ughh!

[Grrarrgh]

Don't even get me started on the 'sparkled' thing. Ughh!

That was the biggest problem I had with the series at first. Then I learned about... Imprinting. :rant:

[Karen Duvall]

I just finished reading Twilight and really enjoyed it. I normally don't care for vampire books, or I should say I don't care at all for vampire romance books. But this was very different. Myers certainly got away with a lot of no-nos that I was actually glad to see because I personally like the no-nos she used. Such as slow pacing in the middle of the book, and lots of back story. I'm an odd-ball in that I love reading huge chunks of back story when it's relevant to the plot. It's all I can do to stop myself from including too much in mine, so I thoroughly enjoyed reading it in hers. Ha!

For me the most intriguing thing about this book is that the vampire angle isn't as prominent as it could be. Yes, it's an important aspect of the story, but it's not blatant. It's the backdrop to an adolescent's discovery of first love that I found very authentic. It's been ages since I was in high school, but memories came flooding back while I was reading and I was immersed in my teenage years again. So I can see why teens would be hooked. This book speaks to them on a level that's unreachable by most adults, IMO. That's what makes this book special.

I wouldn't worry about writing a similar book, despite the fact there are enough YA vampire books on the shelves to fill a high school gymnasium. Myers' book isn't typical vamp fare. It's a sweet romance with vampires in it that puts it in a class by itself.

I just started reading the second book. I like the term book crack. I'm most definitely hooked.

[CheshireCat]

Mant teens are extremely disappointed by the fourth book and are angry about it. They consider it a huge disappointment. But with the money she is getting from the movie and book sales she never has to write another book.

OT, but I really wish people would get this notion out of their heads. Especially writers, who should know better.

Unless it's a monster, monster hit like Da Vinci Code, or spawns a monster movie earning the author a percentage of the gross (which is extremely unlikely), a few hit books don't enable authors to retire.

Really. Honestly.

You hear that some author earned a million-dollar advance and sold to the movies and you think they have it made. No. Start with the million and take out at least 15% for the agent. Now take away anything up to 50% for various taxes. Factor in the time spent writing the book, and whatever expenses -- living and otherwise -- the author has incurred while working.

If said author is very lucky and manages his/her money well, there may be enough left over for a nice vacation and some for the retirement account. And a little bit of a financial cushion while the next book is being planned and/or researched. Maybe.

But never need to write another book? Please.

[alleycat]

Don't let that stop you. Write the best book you can write.
That is the simplest, and best advice anyone can give you.

[rosepddle]

That was the biggest problem I had with the series at first. Then I learned about... Imprinting. :rant:

:roll: I didn't really mind the sparkling, thought it was kinda funny...didn't mind the imprinting either in book three (since I haven't read the fourth I won't comment on what I heard of the freaky turn the imprinting took in that one) but I just don't really care for Bella and it's kinda hard to get behind a book when you yawn at the MC and it's told from her pov.

[Ciera_]

I am also writing a vampire novel. It means we have to work a bit harder to make our books seem original, but still, people love vampires and always will. Don't let the current fads affect keep you from writing a book, ever. Twilight fans, if anything, will be seeking a new series to fill their now empty existences. I'm serious. If I wasn't busy fabricating my own vampires, I'd be in serious withdrawal right now.
I didn't like Stephenie's fourth book. I was a huge fan until then. I just thought the plot sucked, and she should have stopped after book three if that was somehow possible. But lots of people did love it, so, whatever. I strongly recommend reading the series, because I enjoyed it immensely, but don't expect great things from book 4.
And another thing- if you're writing a vampire book, I seriously think you should watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Every episode ever. Okay, not just if you're writing a vampire book. Just in general. Everyone. I'll never stop advocating for that show ^^

[Atlantis]

And why would a vampire go to school?

He lives in a small town. He's an immortal 17 year old. He has to go to school to make it appear that he's an ordinary boy or else people will begin to suspect things about him and ask why he is not going to school.

[Madison]

My wife (also a writer and reviewer) read all four of these in a 5 day blitz earlier this month. When I asked what she thought, when she was finished the first couple, she answered that she thought they were awful: the writing was bad, the characterizations were bad, the "message" (she's an educator as well) was disturbing...

But...

She couldn't stop. The narrative, and the relationships between the characters, had completely hooked her. She HAD to know how the series turned out.

Book crack -- you know it's bad, but you can't stop yourself.

Almost exactly what I thought! Well, I didn't think the writing was horrible and I liked most of the characterizations, but the message definitely was disturbing... (it's sexy that he wants to drink her blood...?)

Still, I couldn't put them down. I read all four in three days. It was ridiculous. I've never been that obsessed. Meyer really knows how to weave a gripping story. She's a brilliant storyteller.

[katiemac]

Your wife is exactly right. I told my husband the same thing. I just couldn't stop reading them even though I recognized how bad they were while I was reading. I complained the whole time I was reading.
And I was one of the ones who absolutely hated the 4th one. It was awful.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/buttons/reputation.gif (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/reputation.php?p=2659172) http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/buttons/infraction.gif (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/infraction.php?do=report&p=2659172) http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/report.php?p=2659172)

I read all four and hated them the entire way through, also. I think she had some interesting and fresh ideas, but in my opinion the storytelling execution is one of the worst I have ever read. I couldn't believe the final book, where the characters do nothing but talk for about 500 pages about the horrible dangers to come, to build up to a big climax and then ... nothing.

It's the idealism of the romance that I think hooks the teens, but whoever upthread that the "message" is disturbing ... I absolutely, absolutely agree. I see young teens clinging to these and I cringe.

I know there are excellent, sophisticated and intelligent teens who read these (who also post on the boards) and I'm not trying to be insulting. But there's a big part of me that does not understand the romantic appeals of the book, and I've come to terms that I just won't get it.

[maestrowork]

For those who hated them (or at least some of the books) -- and I don't have any interest in reading the books... totally wrong demographic -- why do you keep reading them? I find it really interesting that one could continue to buy and read the books even if they hate them... Kind of defies logic, to me. I know if I hate a book, I would never go back to the author again, least of all continue to read the same series.

I went to ComicCon and were at the Twilight panel, and it was just unbelievable -- imagine thousands of teenage girls screaming at the same time. That kind of hysteria just baffles me. On the other hand, I wish I had that kind of a fan base. I would die happy.

[DeusExMachina770]

has to be one of the worst-written books ever published

just look at the first paragraph

[katiemac]

For those who hated them (or at least some of the books) -- and I don't have any interest in reading the books... totally wrong demographic -- why do you keep reading them? I find it really interesting that one could continue to buy and read the books even if they hate them... Kind of defies logic, to me. I know if I hate a book, I would never go back to the author again, least of all continue to read the same series.That's a good question. I can't reply for the others, my reasoning is probably a little different. My roommate bought the first three at once. I read the first, it was probably the best of them, although I still wasn't overly impressed. Had I read the first book on my own, I never would have gone back for the others. But my roommate was always a book ahead of me and was dying to for me to read ahead--we had a lot of fun tearing them apart together over the span of a couple days (it was also finals week--it was better than studying ;)). We were trying to figure out where the hype came from assuming it would get better. Like I said, there were some interesting ideas, but they just fell way, way short. I wasn't planning on reading that last one, but my friend bought it and handed it over when she finished. I skimmed it in a couple hours and still wish I hadn't.

Meyer also published this year an adult for novels which I expressed vague interest in. But based on the last book--I'll never read her again. The positive: Our book club survived this series, and we're reading much more enjoyable books these days.

[Tachyon]

imagine thousands of teenage girls screaming at the same time.
Safest place to be during a Martian attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Attacks!).

[Ciera_]

Say what you will about Twilight and the sequels, but I strongly recommend giving The Host a shot. (That's Stephenie's book for 'adults' though I didn't find it much more adult, in the content) It was truly an excellent book. Knowing her, she'll probably make sequels, one too many. But it can SO stand alone. It has a not-at-all disturbing message, (though I disagree that Twilight had one. Maybe that Bella was throwing her life away, but I never got the impression that she found it sexy that Edward wanted to drink her blood. She wished he were human) except that it's okay to love an alien that can only be compared to a caterpillar. And who doesn't believe that? (...)
Anyway. Much better than Twilight, much more of a complex story woven extremely well in a much shorter space. It was like Twilight, New Moon, Eclipse, AND Breaking Dawn crammed into one book. But nothing felt rushed.
I'm not doing it justice. Seriously, if you're at the bookstore and you enjoy anything that's emotional (relationship-based) romancey, actioney, and just a little bit sci-fi, check this one out.

[Madison]

But there's a big part of me that does not understand the romantic appeals of the book, and I've come to terms that I just won't get it.

Speaking as a not-fanatical fan, I think it's mostly just because Edward is hot and dangerous... yes, we girls can be shallow. That's why I like him.

ditto opinion on The Host, Ciera. Definitely better than Twilight

[katiemac]

though I disagree that Twilight had one. Maybe that Bella was throwing her life away, but I never got the impression that she found it sexy that Edward wanted to drink her blood. She wished he were human) except that it's okay to love an alien that can only be compared to a caterpillar. And who doesn't believe that? (...)

For me, I didn't feel like she was throwing her life away. I was very confused why she would exchange her mortality for someone so readily but thought they were too young for marriage. What struck my nerves was how willing she was to do whatever was necessary for love which--sounds romantic, but to me Edward just seemed controlling. I know not everyone reads it that way, so that's okay, but their romance only confused me. I didn't find it sweet in any way. Realistically, though, I'm not the right audience for these books anyway, no matter my age.

The bigger "message" that upset me is the lack of consequences. The characters get everything they want--immortality, marriage, sex, family, friends and the perfect, perfect child--not because of anything they did, but just because everything luckily worked out that way. It felt very Mary Sue-ish.

Glad to know her adult novel is better. Perhaps I'll rethink it when it's in paperback and I've gone through my massive to-read pile.

[misslissy]

has to be one of the worst-written books ever published

just look at the first paragraph

It's hard to take you too seriously when you can't even capitalize or punctuate.

[Disdainful Soul]

Vampires in YA novels have been around for years, and the market has been steady for them. Recently a lot of the older ones have been reprinted (Vampire Diaries, Night World, The Last Vampire are ones I have seen recently) because of the recent surge. Twilight is simply the latest wave on the beach. There were YA vampire novels before Twilight, and there will be some after.

We're just currently seeing a big vampire wave, I suppose. Breaking Dawn right now, Twilight the movie in November, and True Blood coming to screens as well (although it is more adult than YA) means that vampires are still hot.

So says the girl writing YA vampire novels, anyway.

[Phaeal]

Buffy is the mother of a huge number of supernatural-creatures-in-modern-dress-cracking-wise stories, but Joss did it best. Oh, if they only hadn't cancelled Firefly!

Anyhow. Vampires are deep primal stuff, baby. They have a lot of life, or, er, undeath, left in them.

[Kats]

Vampires in YA novels have been around for years, and the market has been steady for them. Recently a lot of the older ones have been reprinted (Vampire Diaries, Night World, The Last Vampire are ones I have seen recently) because of the recent surge. Twilight is simply the latest wave on the beach. There were YA vampire novels before Twilight, and there will be some after.

We're just currently seeing a big vampire wave, I suppose. Breaking Dawn right now, Twilight the movie in November, and True Blood coming to screens as well (although it is more adult than YA) means that vampires are still hot.

So says the girl writing YA vampire novels, anyway.

Yes, I noticed the Vampire Diaries by L J Smith are being reprinted too. I loved them years ago! I'm looking forward to True Blood as well, although I hated the Sookie Stackhouse books (or at least the first one as that's all I read) - I'm thinking with Alan Ball involved it should be good.

I'm currently reading Breaking Dawn after reading the first three Twilight books. I like them, they're fun books and definitely addictive. I don't think they're the best written books and I have some problems with them from a feminist perspective, but for me they win for being entertaining.

[Atlantis]

Almost exactly what I thought! Well, I didn't think the writing was horrible and I liked most of the characterizations, but the message definitely was disturbing... (it's sexy that he wants to drink her blood...?)

Still, I couldn't put them down. I read all four in three days. It was ridiculous. I've never been that obsessed. Meyer really knows how to weave a gripping story. She's a brilliant storyteller.

Half the reason the vampire romance genre is so popular is because YES it is IS sexy that he wants to drink her blood. I find it sexy. Its all about flirting with danger...knowing that can kill you but he won't...wondering what it would feel like to have his mouth on your neck. And then there's the speed, good looks, and super hero powers, what girl wouldn't be drawn towards a vampire? I still have reoccuring dreams about Spike. Ahhhh...Spike....so much hotter then Angel....lol

I'm curious why Twilight is considered young adult. It doesn't read like young adult fiction to me. The writing is too mature. I consider it an adult book.

[rosepddle]

Anyway. Much better than Twilight, much more of a complex story woven extremely well in a much shorter space. It was like Twilight, New Moon, Eclipse, AND Breaking Dawn crammed into one book.

No offense, but that's enough of a reason for me never to read it. As for why I continued to read when I wasn't impressed with the books is, Twilight was given to me by my gushing friend. And honestly, I thought the first one was okay...good enough for me to have an interest in New Moon. I got through that one okay but I have yet to make it even half way through Eclipse. That one was bought for me too so I kinda feel guilty about not reading it but alittle bit of guilt isn't worth losing hours of my life. :D

[Shweta]

Since this is turning into a "discuss Twilight/Vampire books" thread, now that the OP's question has been answered, I'm gonna move it to the Roundtable.

[Momento Mori]

maestrowork:
For those who hated them (or at least some of the books) -- and I don't have any interest in reading the books... totally wrong demographic -- why do you keep reading them? I find it really interesting that one could continue to buy and read the books even if they hate them... Kind of defies logic, to me. I know if I hate a book, I would never go back to the author again, least of all continue to read the same series.

In my case, it's because I bought the first two books and couldn't stand the idea of not getting my money's worth by giving them away without finishing them. However, although I really didn't like either of the first two books in the series, by the time I finished the second one I had a very clear idea of what it was that I didn't like about it, so I know what I don't want to incorporate into my writing. At the same time, even though I loathed it, I could see why some people loved it with a passion and it's given me food for thought with my own YA manuscripts.

For example, my biggest problem with the first two books was that Bella is far too passive (in the sense that things happen to her, she doesn't really go out and make things happen to her) and I found Edward to be an obsessive, controlling, arrogant and just really creepy (if I woke up to find someone sitting in my bedroom staring at me, my first action would be to reach for the air horn on my bedside table, not to think how sweet it is).

However, both characters do dig into the Bronte tradition of heroines and heroes and I can see why some people would think that their all-encompassing passion for each other was a big wow factor and a must-read. Also, there was a big will-she/won't she factor to the Bella storyline (particularly with the introduction of Jacob) that would have kept people on tenterhooks as to how the story would finish.

The problems I had with the first two books means that I'm in no rush at all to read the remaining two (although if I found them on sale cheap in a charity shop, I'd probably pick them up). However, I do think that it's important for me to read outside my comfort zone because everything I read helps me work out where I want to go with my own stuff.

Does that make sense? I really need more coffee, so putting my thoughts down coherently is proving to be tricky.

maestrowork:
I went to ComicCon and were at the Twilight panel, and it was just unbelievable -- imagine thousands of teenage girls screaming at the same time. That kind of hysteria just baffles me. On the other hand, I wish I had that kind of a fan base. I would die happy.

I think it's one of those situations where it's great when they love you, but when they turn ... Boy, do they turn.

Like I said, Meyer's books weren't my thang, but reading some of the Amazon reviews is a wince-inducing experience. I can understand why it would get to her and to be honest, I don't know how she and Rowling cope with it so well as to retain their sanity.

MM

[maestrowork]

Like I said, Meyer's books weren't my thang, but reading some of the Amazon reviews is a wince-inducing experience. I can understand why it would get to her and to be honest, I don't know how she and Rowling cope with it so well as to retain their sanity.

MM

One thing to do is to NOT read the reviews or discuss with your readers about how they hate your book. :) It's all about focus, I guess -- not avoidance. I know Jodie Foster and Meryl Streep both said they never read reviews of their work. They don't want to be distracted and they focus on what they do, and not what the general public thinks about what they do. I think there's a lot of wisdom in that; on the other hand, if a million fans hate your book, I think it's a good thing to know exactly why, so you may avoid doing that again...? :shrug:

I do wonder how the reception of her last book may or may not affect the movie when it comes out. I know there's a lot of anticipation and hysteria around the release of the film (judging from ComicCon), but the bile in the book reaction makes me wonder about the film now.

[willietheshakes]

One thing to do is to NOT read the reviews or discuss with your readers about how they hate your book. :)

So my relentless and regular self-Googling would also be ill-advised?

[Soccer Mom]

Since this is turning into a "discuss Twilight/Vampire books" thread, now that the OP's question has been answered, I'm gonna move it to the Roundtable.

heh. This is turning into another "roadtrip" thread, but I'm actually going to send it to the Bookclub room. Peanuts and soft drinks will be offered while in flight, but I"m out of those little warm towels.

[Madison]

Half the reason the vampire romance genre is so popular is because YES it is IS sexy that he wants to drink her blood. I find it sexy. Its all about flirting with danger...knowing that can kill you but he won't...wondering what it would feel like to have his mouth on your neck. And then there's the speed, good looks, and super hero powers, what girl wouldn't be drawn towards a vampire?

Okay... you're right. It is sexy. Just sort of weird at the same time :)

[Karen Duvall]

Okay... you're right. It is sexy. Just sort of weird at the same time :)

I don't find vampires one bit sexy, but they are intriguing. In spite of the whole vampire thing in Twilight, I found the relationship between Bella and Edward as the forbidden love (which really is sexy) to be well portrayed. That's what hooked me. The worst vampire romances ever (over) written, IMO, have to be the ones by Christine Feehan. Pure torture to read.

[katiemac]

For example, my biggest problem with the first two books was that Bella is far too passive (in the sense that things happen to her, she doesn't really go out and make things happen to her) and I found Edward to be an obsessive, controlling, arrogant and just really creepy (if I woke up to find someone sitting in my bedroom staring at me, my first action would be to reach for the air horn on my bedside table, not to think how sweet it is).

This is me, exactly. I didn't feel for the characters--I generally found Bella annoying in her passivity and I didn't get the intrigue surrounding Edward. But one of my bigger problems with the execution, which I think is especially noticeable in the final book, is the drawn-out setup to the big climax, but I never feel like the characters *do* anything to change their circumstances. Things happen to them, and then they're lucky it all sorts itself out while they watch.

[dempsey]

I read the book at the insistence of a friend. Didn't much care for it, for reasons I outlined in my blog (http://morgandempsey.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/book-review-twilight/).

That's not shameless linking at all. No siree.

And there's been claims that Meyers is the 'heir apparent' to the Rowling throne. I highly disagree.

[Toothpaste]

Followed the link. The comments are hilarious . . .

[katiemac]

I read the book at the insistence of a friend. Didn't much care for it, for reasons I outlined in my blog (http://morgandempsey.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/book-review-twilight/).

That's not shameless linking at all. No siree.

Once again, your blog is exactly how I feel. I find it interesting that, out of who I've talked to, people dislike the book for the same reasons or love it for the same reasons.


And there's been claims that Meyers is the 'heir apparent' to the Rowling throne. I highly disagree.

Again, I'll agree with your disagreement. The books are completely dissimilar stories, the only idea being that they're both selling in big numbers. Still, Meyer is selling a lot less compared to Rowling. It's just a marketing/PR strategy, since Rowling was the first one to make big numbers she's the standard to compare. It bugs me, and not just because I dislike Meyer's books (her success IS still phenomenal) but because I think comparisons among authors for buzz sake is a silly, silly thing. In fact, I'll say that a great chunk of rabid fanbase disliking the final book is good indication she's not Rowling.

[rosepddle]

This is me, exactly. I didn't feel for the characters--I generally found Bella annoying in her passivity and I didn't get the intrigue surrounding Edward. But one of my bigger problems with the execution, which I think is especially noticeable in the final book, is the drawn-out setup to the big climax, but I never feel like the characters *do* anything to change their circumstances. Things happen to them, and then they're lucky it all sorts itself out while they watch.

I agree with this. And personally, I didn't see what was so facinating about Bella that not only does one "awesome" guy fall for her bit TWO. Then if you count all the boys in the school who wanted her, well, I just didn't see what the big deal was. And it wasn't so much that I thought Bella was ugly, I liked the fact that Bella wasn't a traditional beauty and to the guys in the town she was something different. She didn't have a personality to me. Meyer tells us more than she shows us. Bella is built up to be this monumental klutz but 90% of this is told to us and only 10% is shown and even they are lame examples of someone who is clumsy.

I have to compare it to the way Tonks was in the HP series. JKR SHOWED us how much of a disaster Tonks could be around anything breakable. She was always knocking over things, breaking stuff and tripping. We were told very little about her klutzy behaivor, but we were showed enough for us to know that, yes, this character is a mess, keep her away from teh fine china.

Meyer simply tells repeatedly and then only has Bella trip once while hicking, get a paper cut while opening a gift and falls a bit when learning to ride a motorcycle. These are all things that could happen to any normal person who isn't classified as a klutz. So the fact that we were supposed to get that she couldn't be trusted to carry sharp objects or cross the street alone without being killed just left me feeling that it was a personality trait stuck in at the last minute to give a flat character some quirky depth.

[OctoberRain]

I am probably the only person on the planet that did not realize the Twilight series was YA fiction. Like others, I bought the books because I had several friends who swore to me that I would love it (apparently because I love early Stephen King). So I bought all 4 on a whim one day online at B&N (PayPal makes impulse buys way too easy).

Sat down to read the first book, and by the third page, I was like, WTF? I thought it was written by a 13-year-old... only then did I realize (I don't often bother to read the blurbs on the jackets or the author's bio until after I'm done) that the book was YA and that this was the author's debut novel. I went on for another 7 pages and thought, I can't do it. The writing is terrible. Is this really the book everyone's been talking about?

But since I hate to stop reading books that I've already paid for, I kept going, and by about page 30, I was into it. Sad, but true. I never once stopped thinking the writing was horrible, and the plot was stale at times (Bella's pining and Edward's weird evasiveness got old pretty fast, and like someone else has said, is it necessary to remind us constantly how gorgeous he is?) but there was something authentic to me about Bella's obsession over Edward and I couldn't help but put myself in her place. I think every teenaged girl, at one time or another, has wanted someone that she thought she could never have, that was so out of her league it was almost pointless to try... I couldn't help but root for her.

I just finished the third book and I do think she is showing improvement in her writing. I think the story is imaginative but technically not great. Nevertheless, I feel invested in the story and I am dying to see how it ends, so I'll be reading the fourth one tonight. It IS book crack. Bad for you but you can't help yourself - you're addicted.

I think that if I was in the 12-17 age bracket, this series would rock my world. But I'm 33, and I can't understand how my friends, who are their 30's as well, could love these books so much. I know that once I'm done with these 4, I'll never go back and read them again. I also won't be recommending them to anyone over the age of 17.

I'm probably sending mixed messages here, but I feel confused myself. I think the books are bad but yet I keep going... how does that make sense?

[Momento Mori]

maestrowork:
One thing to do is to NOT read the reviews or discuss with your readers about how they hate your book.

But ... can I at least tell them when they're interrogating my text from the wrong perspective? ;)

[callalily61]

When we were on vacation, my 16yo son hung out with a few cute teenage girls, who were reading the latest book (New Moon? not sure). They raved about it, so he said he'd like to read it, sucking up to me by mentioning he hasn't wanted to read a book based on buzz since the HPs. :rolleyes: The waiting list at the library was miles long, so I picked up a copy at Borders yesterday.

He stayed up till 11:30 reading it, then was up at 6:30 this morning to keep reading before soccer doubles.

I looked at it. I wouldn't spend time on it, but the cute vacation girl factor appears to have worked, and he's devouring it.

I'm all for my kids reading for pleasure, since they have to read so much depressing crap in school.

[maestrowork]

I'm probably sending mixed messages here, but I feel confused myself. I think the books are bad but yet I keep going... how does that make sense?

It's like junk food. You know it's bad, it may not even taste that good either (too much salt), but you just can't stop eating it... it fills a certain emotional need (in this case, probably some kind of flashback to your teenage years when you're pining for some gorgeous guy) and then you feel yucky afterward: What have I done?

But ... can I at least tell them when they're interrogating my text from the wrong perspective? ;)

Resistance is futile. Some people just won't get it.

[Telstar]

Speaking as a not-fanatical fan, I think it's mostly just because Edward is hot and dangerous... yes, we girls can be shallow. That's why I like him.


Ditto.

About the host, no matter how good it is, I dont like the plot.

[Toothpaste]

Except . . . I don't get why they think Edward is gorgeous. Is it because Meyer tells us he is gorgeous? He just seems boring to me. When I went to cover the launch party a couple weeks ago, we asked all the girls why they liked Edward (or Jacob). They said things like, "He's perfect! He's beautiful!" And that's it. And that's what they ALL said. I was like, "Does he have a personality?"

But when I was a teen girl I always had crushes on geeks. Heck as a grown girl I have crushes on geeks. Gary Oldman is the pinnacle of sexiness to me. So maybe I'm the freak, not the other way around . . .

[MelodyO]

Yes, Toothpaste, I can't think of anything more boring than a perfect guy, even if he's undead. Call me snobby (and/or crazy), but give me Spike the vampire any day with his drinking and smoking and cruelty and loyalty and Hawaiian shirts and leather duster and the way his tongue curled when he was especially pleased with himself...

What was I talking about again? Oh yeah. He was gorgeous, and he was flawed all the way to hell and back -- and that's why I love him still. :)

[Momento Mori]

Toothpaste:
I don't get why they think Edward is gorgeous. Is it because Meyer tells us he is gorgeous?

I think it's because she constantly and repetitively tells us that he's gorgeous and beautiful and wonderful and blurgh. Personally, I think the creepy, controlling, stalker-tendencies he displays mitigates against any suggestion of perfection.

Toothpaste:
Gary Oldman is the pinnacle of sexiness to me.

There is no escaping the fact that he is a very sexy man (and when is he going to direct again?), but the pinnacle? Hmm ... ;)

maestrowork:
Resistance is futile. Some people just won't get it.

Dammnit!

MM

[Grrarrgh]

Except . . . I don't get why they think Edward is gorgeous. Is it because Meyer tells us he is gorgeous? He just seems boring to me. When I went to cover the launch party a couple weeks ago, we asked all the girls why they liked Edward (or Jacob). They said things like, "He's perfect! He's beautiful!" And that's it. And that's what they ALL said. I was like, "Does he have a personality?"

But when I was a teen girl I always had crushes on geeks. Heck as a grown girl I have crushes on geeks. Gary Oldman is the pinnacle of sexiness to me. So maybe I'm the freak, not the other way around . . .


Sad to say, but he did have more of a personality than Bella. Of course, that personality was overbearing, controlling, over-possessive and rather singleminded, but at least it existed. Bella was a wallflower who never had a single thought in her head that wasn't Edward's perfectly marble skin. Yuck. But he must be really cute since Stephenie told us about it at least 3x per page. :crazy:

I'm with Melody O. Give me Spike any day of the week.

[rosepddle]

Except . . . I don't get why they think Edward is gorgeous. Is it because Meyer tells us he is gorgeous? He just seems boring to me. When I went to cover the launch party a couple weeks ago, we asked all the girls why they liked Edward (or Jacob). They said things like, "He's perfect! He's beautiful!" And that's it. And that's what they ALL said. I was like, "Does he have a personality?"

But when I was a teen girl I always had crushes on geeks. Heck as a grown girl I have crushes on geeks. Gary Oldman is the pinnacle of sexiness to me. So maybe I'm the freak, not the other way around . . .

I've been perplexed by this for some time. In Twilight, I liked him. I've always been able to relate to male characters more than female for some reason so I wanted Edwards pov. He was far more interesting than Bella but then it never got anymore interesting. Love at first sight only goes so far and there needs to be more to build from and I never saw more. The best description you get of Edward is in Twilight and even then it's clouded with words like perfect, god-like, model, and dreamy. Those show us nothing, only tell us. Now, Robert Pattinson is the face of Edward because I really had no face for him based on the description Meyer gave.

And I'm with you, Toothpaste, if these girls want to see a sexy Vampire, they should check out Gary Oldman in Bram Stoker's Dracula! He did morph into some pretty gross things, but when he was in human form he was just HOT!

[maestrowork]

So, let me get this straight: if I wrote a vampire story about some wallflower pining for a perfect, gorgeous undead, and I repeatedly tell my readers how gorgeously undead he is, I'm going to make millions and have millions of screaming female fans? And it doesn't matter if my writing sucks?

Got it.

Getting back to work.

[Atlantis]

So, let me get this straight: if I wrote a vampire story about some wallflower pining for a perfect, gorgeous undead, and I repeatedly tell my readers how gorgeously undead he is, I'm going to make millions and have millions of screaming female fans? And it doesn't matter if my writing sucks?

Got it.

Getting back to work.

Or you could do something original and stop whining that Stephanie Meyer got published and is more successful then you are. Geez.

[Ageless Stranger]

Or you could do something original and stop whining that Stephanie Meyer got published and is more successful then you are. Geez.

You jest?

[callalily61]

Um.. Atlantis, you were kidding, right? You do know that the book in maestro's sig is his very own published book, right?

Maestro, my WIP has a hot vampire MC. If I get screaming fangirls, I'll share some. Does your book have screaming fanboys you can send my way in exchange? :D

[maestrowork]

Maestro, my WIP has a hot vampire MC. If I get screaming fangirls, I'll share some. Does your book have screaming fanboys you can send my way in exchange? :D

I'll take any groupies you care to share. As for fanboys, yeah, there are some. Do you like 45-year-old accountants? ;)

[callalily61]

I'll take any groupies you care to share. As for fanboys, yeah, there are some. Do you like 45-year-old accountants? ;)

That equals a younger man, so I'm good. I hear those accountants hit the gym now to get the best rates on health insurance. Works for me. :D

I have a 43yo friend who's in the midst of an angry divorce and who lusts after my vampire. She could use some comfort. Like blondes?

[maestrowork]

/* gone to practice blood-sucking */

[Zoombie]

I was brainwashed before I tried this. I was locked up with 15 hot young girls who were ferociously intelligent and just as capable (if not more capable...in fact, most of them were FAR more capable) writers as I were.

Guess what!

They hated Twilight. Hated it was a PASSION.

So I tried it out. I felt its corrupting influence on my mind at about page 15, knew I'd never be able to feel clean again if I let it keep its hooks in me, and hurled it out the window.

This makes me want to write a vampire book though. I was thinking something with Nazis and maybe a cool vampire with a HUGE GUN!

Oh wait! (http://haven.joueb.com/images/Hellsing%207.jpg)

Seriously, I'd pay to see a Hellsing/twilight crossover. The plot would be simple: Bella and Edward meet, then Alucard walks up, taunts him, then riddles him with bullets.

Everyone wins.

Also, Spike!?

I'm an Aaron Boon fangirl.

If I were a girl...which I'm not.


YET!

And on that creepy note, I end my post.

[callalily61]

Zoombie, I wish I were writing a hot female vamp story just so I could lure you into becoming my fanboy.

Maybe for the next book. :e2teeth:

[nerds]

Well. I took a look at the first book in the series because of all the hubbub comparisons to Rowling. By page six I could go no further due to boredom with the writing, so that was that. Plus "synopses" is spelled as "synopsizes" on her site, and when referring to humans she uses "that" instead of "who". Which I found discouraging from someone sporting an English degree. Oh well.

I begrudge no writer their financial success, since it keeps all of publishing alive and healthy, benefiting other writers.

[Zoombie]

Cause I have exhausted my one rep point with you, cally, I shall respond by saying: No, I didn't write it, but someone much smarter and funnier and more tolerant than me did. Tolerant as in she sat through the WHOLE MOVIE. (http://www.agonybooth.com/recaps/Eragon.aspx)

Yes, the whole movie.

Speaking of movie, dose anyone else think the Twilight trailer is downright hilarious? I smell another Eragon. I.E, a movie based off a crap book that is so bad its hated by the fans of the crap book!

[Zoombie]

Right. Uh, I know that I'm double posting...


But if the Twilight movie doesn't have "Who wants to live forever" by Queen, then it needs to eat its own shoes. In fact, I think they should give Edward a sword. Maybe they can have Bella be played by Shaun Connery...

[callalily61]

Mmmm, Sean Connery and a Queen soundtrack. I'd sit through that. :D

[callalily61]

Well. I took a look at the first book in the series because of all the hubbub comparisons to Rowling. By page six I could go no further due to boredom with the writing, so that was that.

That's why I read DaVinci Code. I actually finished it, for which I applaud myself. :Clap:
<snip>

I begrudge no writer their financial success, since it keeps all of publishing alive and healthy, benefiting other writers.

Your last sentence: Quoted For Truth.

[Toothpaste]

I was shocked by how poor the Twilight trailer was. I thought they had done everything right at the beginning with this film, the director, the cast . . . I am hoping it is just a really poorly edited trailer. That can happen. Because if it is as bad as it looks, there will be a riot in the streets. Fans may be fanatical, but they aren't that stupid. Just look how many of them are really angry about this latest book. They aren't blind.

I really do hope the film of Twilight works, even though I particularly don't like the book doesn't mean I don't want it to be a good movie. It appears from the trailer they are beefing up the plot a bit, that's a good sign. Well here's hoping . . .

[Zoombie]

I am personally of the opinion that "fan of twilight" and "not stupid" don't exactly go together ^_^;;;

But that's cause I'm bitter and twisted.

I too hope for a good movie. But, hey, if it sucks, then I can just laugh at how it sucks.

[callalily61]

I too hope for a good movie. But, hey, if it sucks, then I can just laugh at how it sucks.

>groooooan<

[Zoombie]

Oh right they're vaaaampires.

Werewolves are hotter. Its a known fact.

[callalily61]

Someone call Pike. He'll go into furry ecstasy over that statement! :)

Personally, the matted hair turns me off. Sex can get sweaty, yanno? (Did I just say that?)

[Zoombie]

See, by the time a vampire is old enough to not just be pathetic, they're jaded and bored with everything. They might be skillfull enough to give you a real wild night, but they arn't gonna want to stick around. No, no, a werewolf, however, will be a longer, more stable and definitely more passionate relationship.

Cause a werewolf will at least be near the same age as you, hopefully, and wolfishness is quite fetching.

YES I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS FAR TOO MUCH GROWING UP!

[callalily61]

See, by the time a vampire is old enough to not just be pathetic, they're jaded and bored with everything. They might be skillfull enough to give you a real wild night, but they arn't gonna want to stick around. No, no, a werewolf, however, will be a longer, more stable and definitely more passionate relationship.

Cause a werewolf will at least be near the same age as you, hopefully, and wolfishness is quite fetching.

YES I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS FAR TOO MUCH GROWING UP!


Oh, I am so smashing all those vampire misconceptions of yours in my WIP, Zoombie. :D You make me happy. And no, it's not YA. I write for adults, baby! :e2brows:

[Phaeal]

So, let me get this straight: if I wrote a vampire story about some wallflower pining for a perfect, gorgeous undead, and I repeatedly tell my readers how gorgeously undead he is, I'm going to make millions and have millions of screaming female fans? And it doesn't matter if my writing sucks?

Got it.

Getting back to work.

Nah, as you already know, you don't believe in this kind of story enough to do it justice. I'm willing to bet that Meyers loved her Twilight enough to give it that touch of magic that pulls readers in wholesale.

Her touch of magic may not cast an enchantment over you (or me), its ultimate effect may be good or bad or indifferent, but hey, there's no denying it has hit a lot of targets. Publishers like that. ;)

[Phaeal]

Oh, the above said...

I've been told that fans disappointed in Breaking Dawn have been returning the books in striking numbers. This is a great idea! If publishers will accept a substandard work from a hot author, thinking that her name will sell anything, they ought to face some consequences.

An organized push to return Breaking Dawn would be interesting to watch. Hey, maybe it's already underway. BD burnings?* Might not get your money back, but you might get some media interest.

* Be sure to observe your community's fire regulations, people.

[maestrowork]

Mmmm, Sean Connery and a Queen soundtrack. I'd sit through that. :D

Rent Highlander. :)

[maestrowork]

I too hope for a good movie. But, hey, if it sucks, then I can just laugh at how it sucks.

Kind of like Eragon, I guess. Too bad the movie sucks, but I can just laught at how it sucks.

[callalily61]

Rent Highlander. :)

Seen it several times. Yum to the max. :D

[Zoombie]

Why don't they just remake Twilight as Highlander. It'll be a better movie.

[callalily61]

I'll volunteer for Sean Connery to bite me. *raises hand and pulls collar down*

[katiemac]

I was shocked by how poor the Twilight trailer was. I thought they had done everything right at the beginning with this film, the director, the cast . . . I am hoping it is just a really poorly edited trailer. That can happen. Because if it is as bad as it looks, there will be a riot in the streets. Fans may be fanatical, but they aren't that stupid. Just look how many of them are really angry about this latest book. They aren't blind.

I really do hope the film of Twilight works, even though I particularly don't like the book doesn't mean I don't want it to be a good movie. It appears from the trailer they are beefing up the plot a bit, that's a good sign. Well here's hoping . . .

This might be a case where the film could be better than the book--in the sense that those who couldn't stand the novel might be better of sitting through the film. The emotional pining won't work well as is with the book (we won't get Bella's thoughts) so a movie might show the relationship in a better light for those who didn't think it made sense. I don't think they have any choice but to up the plot. Still, I don't blame the trailer for being a bit sad because it's not as though they have a lot of plot, other than the romance, to work with.

[rosepddle]

Speaking of movie, dose anyone else think the Twilight trailer is downright hilarious? I smell another Eragon. I.E, a movie based off a crap book that is so bad its hated by the fans of the crap book!

Truthfully, I thought the movie looked like it might be better than the book--not really a difficult feat. Maybe the actress can give Bella a personality. I read that Meyer gave Robert Pattinson a copy of Edwards version of Twilght so he could understand Edward better...wonder if it helped.

[Zoombie]

Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Danger Jane]

I read that Meyer gave Robert Pattinson a copy of Edwards version of Twilght so he could understand Edward better...wonder if it helped.


This strikes me as a little...weird. Can't a good actor portray a character well whether or not the original story is from their character's POV?

Writing a whole new copy of the book from a different character's POV...not intending publication...seems rather, ehm, self-indulgent?

Sort of like how Breaking Dawn had Bella's labor and being turned from one POV, then from her POV, making the two events (which occur in close succession) last over 50 pages.

I read it piecemeal during a slow shift at work. Friend's library copy.

[Zoombie]

I need to write a 12 step program for Vampire lovers. Cause, apparently, it requires giving yourself up to a higher power (Your vampire), and admitting you're a helpless clutz.

Hehe. I'm being all political again. Te-he.

So, wait, how did Breaking Dawn go from perspective to perspective? The bit I managed to get through was in first person.

SHENNANAGINS! <grabs broom>

[Madison]

It's divided into three books - first one from Bella's view, second from Jacob's, third from Bella's again. I think she just did that so we wouldn't have to suffer through Bella's hellish pregnancy in first person and start to think she was a freak for letting that vicious child tear her insides apart. *shudder* that plot twist was awful!

[Zoombie]

...freak daemon vicious tentacle baby?

Man, I'm gladder and gladder that I stopped reading on page 30...

[Viral]

Why read it if you hate it?

That's such a good question.

I may not be a teenage girl, but I found myself glued to the seat because of Edward. I didn't care about Bella. I especially didn't like her, and easily got tired of living in her head. I didn't even like Edward's personality.

But what I did like what how he obsessed over her, and devoted himself entirely to her.

Teenage girls do a lot of daydreaming. One of the frequent daydreams is finding a boy who will devote himself to you - the sort who won't just leave next week to get a prettier girl, who wouldn't desert you when he found you were pregnant (har at the 4th book). Someone who loves you unconditionally.

I was, effectively, living my own dream through Bella's non-intrusive exterior. Sure, the creepy stalkerism I wouldn't have tolerated, but Edward loved Bella more than anything. So we're living self-fulfillment fantasy here.

[Grrarrgh]

Writing a whole new copy of the book from a different character's POV...not intending publication...seems rather, ehm, self-indulgent?


From what I understand, she does intend to publish it. I think it's supposed to be called Midnight Sun. I'm ashamed of myself for knowing that. :cry:

[rosepddle]

This strikes me as a little...weird. Can't a good actor portray a character well whether or not the original story is from their character's POV?

I think the problem was more so that there wasn't enough for him to pull from to get a good grip on Edward. Perhaps Robert Pattinson was wondering the same thing that many of us were wondering...what's so special about this chick that in nearly a century he hasn't found anyone who...erm...smells as good as she does? Cause really, there was nothing else.

I was, effectively, living my own dream through Bella's non-intrusive exterior. Sure, the creepy stalkerism I wouldn't have tolerated, but Edward loved Bella more than anything. So we're living self-fulfillment fantasy here.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one. I know as a teen I had silly daydreams of parading a guy who dressed well and adored only me in front of the popular girls at school but in my daydream he did not stalk me-lol-but truthfully, there wasn't much substance to my daydreams. We didn't sit around and discuss War and Peace. We mostly had PDA's and did cool things that would make my peers jealous. So if girls are living through Bella then they proably don't need much substance from the stories either.

From what I understand, she does intend to publish it. I think it's supposed to be called Midnight Sun. I'm ashamed of myself for knowing that. :cry:

Um...yeah...ditto. I've even read part of it *hangs head in shame* I read it with the thought that I'd like it better from Edwards pov...not really. And to me, it's just another way to beat a dead horse...is that the saying? Milk a dead cow? Ride a dead camel? Whatever--she's trying to do something to something that's been dead for a few books now-LOL.

[maestrowork]

Teenage girls do a lot of daydreaming. One of the frequent daydreams is finding a boy who will devote himself to you - the sort who won't just leave next week to get a prettier girl, who wouldn't desert you when he found you were pregnant (har at the 4th book). Someone who loves you unconditionally.


Yeah, but isn't that part a staple of romance novels? The undying love and perhaps even obsession of the hero? The dream-fulfillment for the female readers?

Cold Mountain has that hero. Nicholas Sparks has those heroes. I guess that's why they do so well. But what about all the other romances and paranormal romances. So what makes Twilight different and so much more popular? Especially if the protagonists aren't all that likable. You're talking about millions of screaming fans. It can't just be that simple...

[callalily61]

Maestro, this reminds me of those stickers I see on Jeeps: "It's a Jeep thing. You wouldn't understand." I can't explain the vampire attraction if you don't see it already. Vampires are the sexiest things on the planet, combining seduction, edginess, uber-sexiness, and, when done in a certain way, undying commitment.

Generalization follows: Women are sick to death of commitment-phobe men. Vamps are also that kind of wish-fulfillment fantasy.

[Zoombie]

Stephanie Meyers is a witch? Or an otherworldly being who has cast a glamor on us?

[callalily61]

Not at all. Stephanie Meyers wrote a book that hit the market at the exact right time with the exact right publicity.

May all of us land book deals that achieve the same.

(From my mouth to God's ear. :))

[maestrowork]

Maestro, this reminds me of those stickers I see on Jeeps: "It's a Jeep thing. You wouldn't understand." I can't explain the vampire attraction if you don't see it already. Vampires are the sexiest things on the planet, combining seduction, edginess, uber-sexiness, and, when done in a certain way, undying commitment.

Generalization follows: Women are sick to death of commitment-phobe men. Vamps are also that kind of wish-fulfillment fantasy.

But there are vampire romances out there, so what makes Stephanie Meyer's books so much more popular? Or is it what you described as "right time and the right publicity"?

[Pike]

Someone call Pike. He'll go into furry ecstasy over that statement! :)

Personally, the matted hair turns me off. Sex can get sweaty, yanno? (Did I just say that?)

I heard my name. Did somone mention Weres? Oh man, this is a vamp thread?! Well it's back to the flea comb and sheep-shears for me. *mutter-grumble*

Now that I've whined and pined, I see some similarities between JK and the Potter books and Ms. Meyers work. I can't recall exactly where but do remember reading rants and a few reviews downgrading the Potter books. I think that comes with any work that causes such an uproar. There will be people absolutely thrill ed with the stories and those who'd rather read the phonebook. Considering the placement of the Twilight books on the weekly best seller's list they fall into the cult catagory.

I haven't read them but get the gist of the draw. Being far beyond those darker, teenage years, I can remember being awkward and out-of-sorts but most importantly wanting to feel special. Even if I wasn't special having someone treat you that way can lift even the darkest of spirits. She most have nailed that desire enough to draw the fans and sales she has.

Am I off the mark?

[Madison]

nope, you're right on the mark, I think.

Plus Bella could basically be anyone - besides her klutziness, she really doesn't have that many characteristics that make her stand out. Yes there are problems there from a writer's perspective, but that also means that Bella could be any teenage girl and any teenage girl could be Bella... so the girls who read the books become Bella and Edward is theirs (I almost wrote 'there's'... I should be banished :) )

[nerds]

So, total transference, then.

Intriguing to me, since when I was a tweener and teenaged girl I wanted strong, vital characters. With a few aspects of relateability, yes, but I never wanted to be able to transfer. Guess this confirms what a non-mainstream person I was. But, are girls that, uh, in need of strong clear self components these days? Never mind.

[katiemac]

Madison, you're right. There's a lack of anything substantial about Bella except that she's "the average girl" that any girl can fill in her qualities for Bella's. In the other Meyer thread, someone mentioned that in a scene of Bella listening to her favorite music--the band isn't mentioned, not even the genre. It's just "upset girl in her room listening to her favorite CD." Again, totally generic.

Yeah, but isn't that part a staple of romance novels? The undying love and perhaps even obsession of the hero? The dream-fulfillment for the female readers?

Cold Mountain has that hero. Nicholas Sparks has those heroes. I guess that's why they do so well. But what about all the other romances and paranormal romances. So what makes Twilight different and so much more popular? Especially if the protagonists aren't all that likable. You're talking about millions of screaming fans. It can't just be that simple...

But Nicholas Sparks and Cold Mountain are, for the most part, written for adults. I'm not saying younger audiences haven't read them, but I don't recall another YA novel that discusses all-consuming love like Twilight does. Even something like Romeo and Juliet--I don't think high school audiences identify anymore, the story is too well-known and the language is difficult to boil down with your own feelings.

These are characters the same age as the girls (and boys) reading them, encountering their true loves at the same age, etc. etc. I've also heard them described by numerous readers, adults and the YA group, as incredibly sexy. I personally don't see that, but that would be another point. In the sense that Harry Potter sparked a lot of reading among young audiences, I think Twilight has also reached readers who don't normally pick up a book outside of required reading. So, again, they wouldn't really have encountered the romance/sex in a text before.

[callalily61]

But there are vampire romances out there, so what makes Stephanie Meyer's books so much more popular? Or is it what you described as "right time and the right publicity"?

I asked my son this question. He's currently on Twilight page 286. He says he can relate to Bella because she's a klutz and unpopular and has low self-esteem. He relates to Edward because he's cool.

My son thinks he knows vampire conventions--he grew up with me, after all--but the way he listed the attributes of Meyers' vampires, it shows he doesn't. So this adds the discovery of new territory to the mix.

He just read me a passage where they're in a field and Edward is listening to Bella's heartbeat. Quite the romantic, Edward is. If that's an accurate sample of the book, then Meyers can certainly do first person with an appeal that spans the sexes.

My conclusion: Wish-fulfillment. My son would like to be cool and fascinating and powerful and perfect like Edward, but he also turns it around and wishes his next GF could be the a female type of Edward. He does say that Bella is constantly tripping her own feet and needing rescue, but the Edward/BElla-ness of the story apparently covers a multutide of sins.

But also, I do think right time/right publicity played a part.

[maestrowork]

So, total transference, then.

Intriguing to me, since when I was a tweener and teenaged girl I wanted strong, vital characters. With a few aspects of relateability, yes, but I never wanted to be able to transfer. Guess this confirms what a non-mainstream person I was. But, are girls that, uh, in need of strong clear self components these days? Never mind.

Interesting psychology, actually. I wonder if that's why some romance works so well, because of the "transference." Sure, the heroine is spunky and intelligent, but at the same time they could be generic and cliched. In comparison, the hero is dashing and dangerous and blah blah... lots of wish fulfillment going on here.

As a young boy, I was more interested in the adventures and the things the characters got to do and experience instead of the characters themselves. I seriously don't remember what Tom Sawyer was like (albeit being resourceful, smart alec, I suppose) but I remember all the adventures and fun things they did. And how about the Hardy Boys -- it's all about the adventures! And I loved James Bond -- certainly some wish fulfillment going on there. I totally transferred. So I think there's a lot of truth about stories for children and YA. As adults, perhaps we start to separate our fiction from our own wish-fulfillment (then again, there's the soap operas).

[triceretops]

I must have read over 800 reviews spanning all of these books. There is a clear division between those who loved them (five stars), a younger, rabid fan base, and those who were more discriminating--including teenagers, who just didn't get the attraction and found many of the scenes and circumstances "icky" and demeaning to women. I haven't read it, so I can't comment on it.

But I will ask this (don't remember where I read it), was this three-book deal (the original deal) worth a $500,000 advance? Plus a movie deal? Does anybody have the story on this?

Tri

[Madison]

I think (why oh why do I know this?) that the original deal was 750k...

In a business sense, I'm sure that Meyer's publishers made much, much more than that back, so yes, to them it was worth it. I have no article for support, though

[OctoberRain]

I think (why oh why do I know this?) that the original deal was 750k...

In a business sense, I'm sure that Meyer's publishers made much, much more than that back, so yes, to them it was worth it. I have no article for support, though

I just looked it up in Publisher's Marketplace and got this:

Stephenie Meyer's debut TWILIGHT, a teenage vampire love story, to Megan Tingley and Jennifer Hunt at Little, Brown Children's, in a major deal -- "the most Little, Brown children's has ever offered a first-time author" (later confirmed as $750,000) -- at auction, for three books, by Jodi Reamer at Writers House (world).

[Zoombie]

I must have been an odd boy, as I just counted the pages till the girl and the guy kissed.

Now, as an odd teenager, I count the page till they <censored for the childrens>

[MelodyO]

I must have been an odd boy, as I just counted the pages till the girl and the guy kissed.

Now, as an odd teenager, I count the page till they <censored for the children's>

Farm? Braid each other's hair? Disrupt the time-space continuum?? Am I close? :D

[katiemac]

I must have been an odd boy, as I just counted the pages till the girl and the guy kissed.

Now, as an odd teenager, I count the page till they <censored for the childrens>

You have a lot of counting ahead of you. ;)

[Zoombie]

Farm? Braid each other's hair? Disrupt the time-space continuum?? Am I close? :D

Play Risk, actually.

Actually, I have zero pages of counting ahead of me, cause now that I'm older and wiser, I know, if I want to read about sex, I just go to a cruddy erotica website and then feel better, because at least I nor Meyers starts their story off with "I'm a 28 year old woman with DD sized breasts and I was walking to this bar one night..."

I have to admit, despite my personal feelings of intense dislike of Twilight, the 30 pages I did read were LESS annoying and poorly written then, say, the Assignment, which pissed me off so much that I had to bang my head against a wall to stop raving about how much it irritated me.

I just stopped reading cause I didn't feel like wasting all the time I'd have to invent to finish the books when I could read something I care about...or have to read, cause if I don't read it, I'll fail my classes.

[IceCreamEmpress]

I have to admit, despite my personal feelings of intense dislike of Twilight, the 30 pages I did read were LESS annoying and poorly written then, say, the Assignment

No.

Seriously, no.

You may have enjoyed Twilight more than The Assignment, but there is no way that it was "better written."

Although I don't know what translation you're reading--and thus, it may be less-than-competent-- Duerrenmatt was a great writer even if you don't enjoy his work. Stephenie Meyers is, at best, a workmanlike writer (and she's not always there--her grammar and syntax leave a lot to be desired).

Seriously, that's like saying that "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" is better than Macbeth. You may well enjoy Buffy a lot more, but Shakespeare is still the better writer.

[MelodyO]

Seriously, that's like saying that "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" is better than Macbeth. You may well enjoy Buffy a lot more, but Shakespeare is still the better writer.

I think Macbeth would have been way better if Xander had been Macbeth's sidekick. Think of the one-liners with the witches! :tongue

[dempsey]

Your continued derailment is stolen from SBTB (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dompotjTeIA).

I linked it on my blog, too, but I'll spare you the repeat linkage.

(Though apparently the day I did shamelessly pimp my blog, I got over 3x the normal daily views. The sharp pointy spike in my graph scared me. Thanks :) )

[Madison]

OH MY GOSH I AM DYING OF LAUGHTER! That is hilarious, dempsey. SO much better than the real trailer...

That Edward is actually hot! I think those two should act in the real movie. Best scene is at the end when they run into the window... hahaha

[NoMist]

Cold Mountain has that hero. Nicholas Sparks has those heroes. I guess that's why they do so well. But what about all the other romances and paranormal romances. So what makes Twilight different and so much more popular? Especially if the protagonists aren't all that likable. You're talking about millions of screaming fans. It can't just be that simple...
Edward taps into girls' fantasies in a way that most romantic heroes don't, not because he's so gorgeous, powerful, and knowledgeable, but because he's fatal/dangerous/'evil' (I know he's not 'evil', but there is that dark side to him).

I think Edward appeals to girls who like the 'bad guys', the Cool & Elite type, or at least was supposed to before he turned sappy... (Consider Pirates of the Caribbean - the handsome and heroic Orlando Bloom wasn't nearly as popular with girls as Johnny Depp's darker, more bad-guy character.) I think girls are sick and tired of the 'handsome/noble/heroic' type.

[E. Arroway]

My wife (also a writer and reviewer) read all four of these in a 5 day blitz earlier this month. When I asked what she thought, when she was finished the first couple, she answered that she thought they were awful: the writing was bad, the characterizations were bad, the "message" (she's an educator as well) was disturbing...

But...

She couldn't stop. The narrative, and the relationships between the characters, had completely hooked her. She HAD to know how the series turned out.

Book crack -- you know it's bad, but you can't stop yourself.

The books are definitely not literary quality, but as far as I'm concerned, so what? The writing may be simplistic, but it flows very well, and I had the same experience - I could NOT put them down. I was completely absorbed in the story all the way through.

[matdonna]

No.

Stephenie Meyers is, at best, a workmanlike writer (and she's not always there--her grammar and syntax leave a lot to be desired).


You know, I can and do forgive this in a writer who is a good storyteller (haven't read Twilight yet, but I'm waiting to borrow it from someone.) But honestly, I think I shouldn't have to--- I work my butt off to make my stories both hard-to-put-down and well-written....on the theory that really good writing serves the story and makes it more readable than bad writing.

So when I hear a popular storyteller leaves something to be desired in the style & mechanics dept., my question is-- what's with the editors? Shouldn't they be cleaning some of that stuff up?

Hope I haven't derailed the thread....

[rosepddle]

Edward taps into girls' fantasies in a way that most romantic heroes don't, not because he's so gorgeous, powerful, and knowledgeable, but because he's fatal/dangerous/'evil' (I know he's not 'evil', but there is that dark side to him).

I think Edward appeals to girls who like the 'bad guys', the Cool & Elite type, or at least was supposed to before he turned sappy... (Consider Pirates of the Caribbean - the handsome and heroic Orlando Bloom wasn't nearly as popular with girls as Johnny Depp's darker, more bad-guy character.) I think girls are sick and tired of the 'handsome/noble/heroic' type.

I agree with this to a point. Yes, the bad guy can really be a draw but Edward lost that early on in the first book. He stops becoming dangerous because Bella stops being threatened by him before Twilight is even over. She loves him and after a certain point in Twilight, she never fears that he will lose control and hurt her. So he is no longer the bad boy. The remaining books in the series finds a guy who is incredibly dangerous, but he's kinda been neutered. By then, I think the crack had taken hold and people were already addicted despite Edwards lack of danger.

And is it just me, or did the description of his cold marble body leave something left to be desired...who wants to snuggle up to a statue? After the "love scene" in Breaking Dawn, I heard someone wonder if it was like doing a popsicle for Bella! :ROFL:
Okay...maybe I shouldn't have repeated that, but man, it sure was funny when I read it.

[tilt190]

The plot's pretty random, like SM got a few brain farts along the way, the writing's too shallow (notice how much they describe the appearances), and the misuse of adjectives and adverbs is running rampant.


But I still loved the story. I read it, re-read it, and read some more.

Did you? Any thoughts why??

- L

[Angelinity]

--

[Cassiopeia]

It's the old Romeo and Juliet theme in a modern settle. Forbidden love. Another version of Buffy and Angel.

[Mr. Anonymous]

Firstly, I would like to say that it really does annoy me how people (not directed at anyone in particular) can be such sour apples.

The ultimate judge of a book is its audience. You can go on and on about all the things you think she does wrong, imply that you know better, but guess what. Her readership disagrees, and it is thanks to her readership that she has become successful.

With that out of the way. I think her success comes from the fact that she tapped into a sort of teen girl sexual fantasy. lol.

[Cassiopeia]

I don't see anyone posting with sour grapes. It is a technical question being reviewed on a technical basis.

[OctoberRain]

I know that for me, I forgot about the writing after a while. I was dying to know how it all ended with Bella and Edward. I don't know else to explain it. And along the way, there were some things I really did enjoy, like the Quileute (sp?) legends and the subplot with Jacob and his friends.

[Mr. Anonymous]

I don't see anyone posting with sour grapes. It is a technical question being reviewed on a technical basis.
Number one rule? There are none.

It's not just this thread, not even just this forum. It's a general response to what I feel is a commonly held attitude by many writers toward SM.

I haven't read the series, and I don't intend to. But my point holds. If people like it enough to read it in such numbers, then it works.

Technicality in writing applies, in my opinion, to proper grammar and punctuation. After that, the author can do whatever the hell she/he wants.

Joe Abercrombie spams dialogue qualifiers. It's supposedly a bad practice. But guess what? I enjoyed his books, and so did a hell of a lot of other people.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, writing is not a science. It's an art. And the beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.

[katiemac]

We've already had a bunch of threads on this topic, both in the Roundtable and the Book Club forums. Maybe another mod can merge?

[GLAZE_by_KyrstinMc]

Girls fall head over heels in love with Edward.

Or Jacob.

[GLAZE_by_KyrstinMc]

I haven't read it yet myself, but I intend to before the movie comes out.

[Cassiopeia]

I might have to break down and get the first book because I love vampire stories. I just don't have much time right now and to be open about it, I have a resistance to something that reminds me so much of Buffy and I loved Buffy. It feels like betrayal.

Cassi ( a very loyal Buffy fan.)

[wordmonkey]

Because girls have smaller brains.


Wha...? :e2moon:

[Cassiopeia]

Because girls have smaller brains.


Wha...? :e2moon:*kicks that bummies*

[Brooke]

Ya know what gets me....I'm assuming Bella gets her period. So wouldn't that drive all of her vampire friends insanely crazy? I mean, in NEW MOON when she cuts her finger...It's just inconsistent. It's not realistic enough for me. :)

[Toothpaste]

Mr. Anon - honestly . . . yes the books are doing well but for someone who might not like them it is worth therefore to ask why. How is that sour grapes to analyse what worked even though you as a reader might not have liked the book? It is in fact the opposite of sour grapes, it's taking your feelings aside and going, "Well something must have worked because people love it."

I personally really had to ponder that question, because I am unlike many readers of Twilight. I not only hated the plot, characters and writing, but did not feel the need to find out what happened and only read the whole thing because it was so popular and I was trying to analyse why. I have come to a few unsatisfying conclusions because I truly think the book is bad (btw I am not reading anymore in the series, most say Twilight was the best one, and if that is the best, I'm not going for any others).

Anyway, just because someone thinks a book is bad does not mean they have sour grapes. And certainly not someone who thinks the book is bad but still wants to analyse its popularity.

[Woven]

I really enjoyed Twilight quite a bit. New Moon drove me nuts because Meyers let us in on a little secret about Jacob in book one if you caught it, but it took Bella about 3/4 of the book to figure it out. Jacob was a secondary character with whom Meyers fell in love. Not wise as an author really, though I definitely understand it. I'm in love with a secondary character of mine, but I keep battling him back. I didn't like at all the triangle thing that got going in ernest in Eclipse. And I have little good to say about Breaking Dawn.

But the question was about Twilight. I love Edward, despite all the negative I've read about him. (In Twilight, that is) He's 117 with the body of a 17 year old. That right there appeals to every woman, in my opinion. I feel like he's very easy for any woman to relate to, in that way. The story itself was unique to me, perhaps because it's not my typical genre. I felt like she created the perfect vampire. I love the banter she has going on between Alice and Edward with the unique gifts.

The writing isn't the best perhaps, but I don't think it's bad. Then there's Breaking Dawn...

[Atlantis]

The plot's pretty random, like SM got a few brain farts along the way, the writing's too shallow (notice how much they describe the appearances), and the misuse of adjectives and adverbs is running rampant.


But I still loved the story.

Did you? Any thoughts why??

- L

Everyone has different tastes. I'm 24 and I loved the series. I thought the writing was poetic, almost haunting. I was into it from page one. I've read alot of vampire stories and found the Cullens intriguing from the moment they came into the picture not because Edward is soooo hot. I was interested in him because of the violence in him. I loved the way his eyes turned black when he was fighting the urge to kill Bella and after he fed his eyes would turn gold and he would be a pleasant gentleman. I loved the "sparkly" vampire idea. What an intriguing way for vampires to attract prey. They remind me of the Sirens from ancient Greece who would attract prey with their haunting voices. I think the reason Twilight is so popular might be because of the struggle Edward goes through to stop himself from giving in to the urge to kill Bella. In Buffy, Angel did not have the same urges. He could control himself. In Twilight, Edward is intoxicated by Bella. In the first book when he rubs his face against her neck and sniffs I couldn't point it down. He's like an animal in the body of a man. The animal desperately wants to give in to instinct and kill the beautiful woman in front of him. The man wants to keep her safe. I got my mum hooked on the series and she's in her fifties. We don't think its young adult. The writing is too mature. But that is just our opinion.

[Woven]

Atlantis, I agree. One of the things I too loved about Edward was his incredible self-control. Also, I loved how realistic Twilight was. It was firmly set in reality and I was easily able to suspend my disbelief while reading it. It felt as though I could too could be living next door to a vampire.

And then there's Breaking Dawn...

[Soccer Mom]

Katie is right. Lots of threads on this topic. I"m going to send this to the book club and let the mod there merge them.

[Darzian]

They're nice IMO. There are significant errors, but I wan intrigued to finish to the end. Lots of cliches but but I liked the characters, especially Carlisle.

The idea of 'vegetarian' vampires was good.

Bad points include the absence of interesting climaxes. Book 4's ending was particularly disappointing. Each book builds up and up and up and then.....nothing happens. Each book was like that. Then ending was way to unsatisfactory.

Also, everything is too convenient for Bella (the MC). It ended up being somewhat unrealistic because everyone doesn't get everything. Bella worries about how she is going to handle all these problems- and those problems just fly out the window without any intervention by the MC. I would have loved it if the MC found a way to solve the probs, but they get solved by themselves.


I really liked to story overall, but there are many probs. If the writer was going to put such an un-dramatic ending, then she should not have built up such suspense.

I still love Edward and Carlisle.

I'm not attacking SM. I am happy for her success. The books were good enough to keep me reading them straight in just a few days, but everything has some negative point, and the weak climaxes were very very sad.

[tilt190]

Everyone has different tastes. I'm 24 and I loved the series. I thought the writing was poetic, almost haunting. I was into it from page one. I've read alot of vampire stories and found the Cullens intriguing from the moment they came into the picture not because Edward is soooo hot. I was interested in him because of the violence in him. I loved the way his eyes turned black when he was fighting the urge to kill Bella and after he fed his eyes would turn gold and he would be a pleasant gentleman. I loved the "sparkly" vampire idea. What an intriguing way for vampires to attract prey. They remind me of the Sirens from ancient Greece who would attract prey with their haunting voices. I think the reason Twilight is so popular might be because of the struggle Edward goes through to stop himself from giving in to the urge to kill Bella. In Buffy, Angel did not have the same urges. He could control himself. In Twilight, Edward is intoxicated by Bella. In the first book when he rubs his face against her neck and sniffs I couldn't point it down. He's like an animal in the body of a man. The animal desperately wants to give in to instinct and kill the beautiful woman in front of him. The man wants to keep her safe. I got my mum hooked on the series and she's in her fifties. We don't think its young adult. The writing is too mature. But that is just our opinion.


I guess Twilight is a guilty thing for me to read, too. Just like how Harry Potter was. I think I liked it because E and B had chemistry in the books...my favorite part of New Moon was when Bella gets to Edward in time before he steps into the sun. That was the only part I read two or three times. Yeah, I'm nuts.

And that sparkly thing is nonsense, but i loved the visuals it gave me. Sparkly....ooh! Of course, glittery is just something the author made up, but it affected me. i felt a flush in my cheeks when he sparkled. Or was that a oh-my-god-he's-so-coooool!!!! cringe? haha.

It might have something to do with the whole bad-boy-turned-good for the love of his life thing going on that hooks teenage girls (and older ones as well).

But New Moon was kinda way too creepily close to R & J by Shakespeare for me to enjoy it. But it was still good. After I mentally crossed out the adverbs, that is.

[Mr. Anonymous]

Toothpaste -

honestly . . . yes the books are doing well but for someone who might not like them it is worth therefore to ask why.

That's not what annoys me. What annoys me is (and maybe I'm wrong), it seems to me like a LOT of people are complaining about how THIS author does THIS wrong and THAT author does THAT wrong, and by doing this they imply that they could do better, and that they are more worthy of success.

I just find that kind of whiny attitude annoying. Sure, I could go and say Paulini doesn't deserve his success, blah blah blah, how I think my book is better, whatever. But the truth is, he wrote a book, and lots of people bought it, and lots of people enjoyed it. My roommate, who is a pretty smart guy, liked it a lot, and is eagerly awaiting the next installment.

So, if I did go on a rant about Paulini, would I really be doing it because I wanted to explain why I didn't like his work, or would I be doing it because I am slightly envious of his success?

I'll be honest with myself and say it is the latter.

How is that sour grapes to analyse what worked even though you as a reader might not have liked the book?

But that is not what a lot of people are doing.

IE, book is cliche, characters suck, worst thing I have ever read, etc etc etc. And considering this is a thread asking about the popularity of the book, these posters are actually avoiding the question and saying, yea a lot of people liked it but I thought it was crap.

I read your post, and you were much more objective, so please don't feel like this is directed at you. Like I said, it isn't directed at anyone. I guess, the difference between writing these sorts of comments as a reader and writing these sorts of comments as a writer is that, as aforementioned, the writer's motivation may have less to do with an objective critique and more to do with "how the hell did this crap get published and my opus didn't?"

I get it's hard. Hell, I'm there too. But I just feel that kind of attitude doesn't help.

It is in fact the opposite of sour grapes, it's taking your feelings aside and going, "Well something must have worked because people love it."

Anyway, just because someone thinks a book is bad does not mean they have sour grapes. And certainly not someone who thinks the book is bad but still wants to analyse its popularity.

From your post, I could tell you didn't have "sour grapes." Now some other posts (and again, not just on this forum)...

[Satori1977]

I am on the fence with this book. I first heard about it in Entertainment Weekly when they were talking about it becoming a movie. It sounded interesting and I love Vamp novels, so the next day I picked it up. The book is huge, so I was really looking forward to a long, great read. And I have to admit, it pulled it me. Meyers writes well...and when I say well, I mean she has a way to hooking you. I am not even sure what it is about her style of writing. I can name several vampire books off the top of my head that are written better, heck, I can name MANY books in general that qualify. But for some reason you get sucked into the book. It didn't take me long to finish. Now for the bad parts...

Bella is very uninteresting as a MC. If her character had been in one of my stories, she would have been knocked off in the first few chapters. She is whiny and self-indulgent. I hated how every boy fell all over her why she complained about how ugly and ordinary she was. She complained about the weather, the snow, her mother, her father, the people in town. She bored us with how terrible the school was and she had already learned everything they were teaching. Now I remember being a 16 year old whiny teenager. But she overdoes it. She was not what made the story interesting, but it was everyone else. The Cullens especially breathed life (pun not intended...ok, maybe a little) into the story. I wanted to hear more about their pasts, how they became vampires, etc. I was especially interested in Carlisle and in the (brief) recounting of his transformation. I also loved Alice, and would love to hear her story, her life as a human and why she can't remember anything before becoming undead. Now THAT would have been an excellent read, IMO. I also really enjoyed Jacob and the folklore of his people. That could be another novel right there. (BTW, I hated Bella when she was flirting and using him to get information, then acting all innocent and guilty about it....grrrr).

So my point is, good book, if it weren't for the main character. I don't like weak lead, especially weak female leads. I like strong women. Whether they start out weak and find the strenght within or are always that way. I also like realistic MC's. With weakness and vulnerability, but not overdone. I want to feel bad for the MC, sympathize with them, understand their motivations and feelings....and most of all I want to root for them. With Bella, I just wanted to slap her silly.

Oh, and the book was a little long...took a long time to build up, I felt a lot of the story was unnecessary. And the climax fell short, by a lot. It builds and builds, and nothing. Big letdown on the ending. I thought it was all too convenient.

[Brooke]

*spoilers*

So far (I just finished Eclipse yesterday), I find the books to be one giant c**ktease. There are so many great ideas hinted at--but rarely does one develop. The werewolves are probably the most developed. But she could have done soooooo much more with the vampires. Also, in improv we have a saying that goes, "Make the most interesting choice." I don't think Meyer does this. She plays it safe. Like, Edward won't have human/ vampire sex. Bella pushes off marriage. Jacob and Edward almost fight, but never do. Bella picks Edward over Jacob. Can't she have them both? Much more interesting. I guess I just, really really REALLY wish she would have turned Bella into a vampire at the end of the first book, maybe the second. Meyer talks so much about how out of control new vampires are--why doesn't she just SHOW us through the eyes of Bella. The pacing could have been sped up a lot. There is no reason why Twilight and New Moon could not have been combined into one book. There's a lot that could have been cut.

[Skye Jules]

Don't like the books at all. Meyer's writing was too lazy and sloppy. She used too many cliches, like rock hard, ice cold, and red as tomatoes. Her descriptions were too purple prosey for me. I mean, Edward sparkling? Come on, that's a little ridiculous. And her dialogue was lazy too. She had a flowery said-bookism for every piece of dialogue, with a flowery tom-swifite plunked right in. And her characters didn't really develop too much throughout the series. She also has a huge deus ex machina in the fourth book, with all that suspension built just to have a mental fight. Meyer said she hinted about it in her third book, but she didn't do a good job executing that in her fourth book.

I've written like two reviews on this book already, one for Viciouswriters.com, and one for the Xtreme.

But I mostly don't like the series because I'm not into romance as a plot, which is why you'll never catch me reading a Harlequin romance novel. I like it as a sub-plot.

I say, as a reader, love them, but as a writer, realize that it does have many, many flaws. Same with any other book that somehow made it beyond the agent's assistant's desk.

Anyway...I believe it's popular because it plays on people's fantasies, much like Harry Potter did. You have a "gorgeous" guy with an "average" girl. Plus, they're vampires, and sometimes people wish they could be another species for a change. It mostly plays on pre-teen girls, who wish they could find a guy like Edward, even though they don't realize that most boys their age are rather *coughs* stupid.

[rhymegirl]

I'm only halfway through this novel, but I have a few thoughts.

It seems to take an awful long time to get anywhere. There just isn't very much happening. An awful lot of description about how gorgeous Edward is. Enough already!

Right off the bat when I was on page 9, I kept tripping over this one sentence:

"The room was familiar; it had been belonged to me since I was born."

Huh? It had been belonged to me? Is that an obvious mistake or do some people actually talk that way?

I can see her saying "it had belonged to me since I was born" OR "it belonged to me since I was born", but not "it had been belonged to me."

[Disdainful Soul]

^^ Twilight and its sequels, and the Host, suffer from a lot of poor editing. There's a typo on either the first or second page of The Host (that's about as far as I could get), and there are others throughout Twilight etc.

I know there was a big hoo-haa over one error in Breaking Dawn (#4) where someone went from eating pancakes to looking into his cereal bowl.

[scarletpeaches]

He lives in a small town. He's an immortal 17 year old. He has to go to school to make it appear that he's an ordinary boy or else people will begin to suspect things about him and ask why he is not going to school.

Yeah. A vampire who panders to mortal rules? Sorry, not buying.

...I think her success comes from the fact that she tapped into a sort of teen girl sexual fantasy. lol.

Which is weird, 'cause Meyer does this weird pre-marital cockblocking all through the first three books.

Girls fall head over heels in love with Edward.

Or Jacob.

Nuh-huh. But then, I'm 32 and therefore have the sense not to fall in love with an emotionally unavailable control freak.

...New Moon drove me nuts because Meyers let us in on a little secret about Jacob in book one if you caught it, but it took Bella about 3/4 of the book to figure it out...

She was too busy whining about Edward leaving her. Jeez. Get over it, bitch. You've been dumped. Srsly.

Okay, look...I might seem unsympathetic to Bella as a character here (duh) but the first chunk of New Moon really, intensely ripped my nips. Page after page of Bella whinging about how much she missed Edward. And nothing. Else. Happened.

*snore*

...But the question was about Twilight. I love Edward, despite all the negative I've read about him. (In Twilight, that is) He's 117 with the body of a 17 year old. That right there appeals to every woman, in my opinion.

No. It really, really doesn't.

...she created the perfect vampire.

And didn't she just labour that point on every page? Godlike, scintillating, sparkling, wonderful, perfect, angelic Edward...

...Bad points include the absence of interesting climaxes.

I think that fact alone emphasises Meyer's conflict-avoidance. There's no resolution to speak of in either of the books I've read (the first two in the series). In fact, there's no conflict. Okay, maybe a little. And 99% of the time it's passive little Bella being saved by heroic, Godlike, angelic, wonderful (ad nauseam) Edward.

...Bella worries about how she is going to handle all these problems- and those problems just fly out the window without any intervention by the MC.

Deus ex machina, your name is Stephenie Meyer.

I just find that kind of whiny attitude annoying.

Best stay the heck away from Bella Swan then.

I mean...Beautiful Swan???

...if I did go on a rant about Paulini, would I really be doing it because I wanted to explain why I didn't like his work, or would I be doing it because I am slightly envious of his success?

Depends. Would you be ranting about Paolini, or his books?

I'll be honest with myself and say it is the latter.

Good for you.

Bella is very uninteresting as a MC. If her character had been in one of my stories, she would have been knocked off in the first few chapters. She is whiny and self-indulgent. I hated how every boy fell all over her why she complained about how ugly and ordinary she was.

I also thought it was very telling that Meyer said in several interviews that this really happened to her!

If that's not an illustration of Mary-Sueism, I don't know what is.

It may have happened to her. It may not. But just because it 'happened' in real life doesn't mean it has a place in her book. It just wasn't believable. These events stand out if they ever do happen in the real world (and I have my doubts that this tale hasn't been embellished a lot) simply because they are unbelievable.

Bella's got a face like a bulldog licking piss off a nettle and yet five guys fall for her in the space of one novel? My. Arse.

With Bella, I just wanted to slap her silly.

You and me both.

*spoilers*

So far (I just finished Eclipse yesterday), I find the books to be one giant c**ktease.

Ha! Yup. Cockblockage overload there. The books read too much like the author's forcing her morality on the characters.

Someone please explain this to me:

It's okay to drink someone's blood and kill them, but not have sex with them? Huh?

Edward - grow the f*** up, boyfriend!

Don't like the books at all. Meyer's writing was too lazy and sloppy. She used too many cliches, like rock hard, ice cold, and red as tomatoes.

Have you seen the movie trailer?

"Your skin is pale white."

Um...yeah. As opposed to what? Dark white? Smoked applewhite? White with a hint of black?

Codicil to all of the above: yes, I'm still going to see the movie. Why? Here's my reason right here:
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii53/doriangrayspictures/Monday%20totty/RobertPattinson1.jpg

[Disdainful Soul]

Bella is very uninteresting as a MC. If her character had been in one of my stories, she would have been knocked off in the first few chapters. She is whiny and self-indulgent. I hated how every boy fell all over her why she complained about how ugly and ordinary she was.

I also thought it was very telling that Meyer said in several interviews that this really happened to her!

If that's not an illustration of Mary-Sueism, I don't know what is.

It may have happened to her. It may not. But just because it 'happened' in real life doesn't mean it has a place in her book. It just wasn't believable. These events stand out if they ever do happen in the real world (and I have my doubts that this tale hasn't been embellished a lot) simply because they are unbelievable.

Bella's got a face like a bulldog licking piss off a nettle and yet five guys fall for her in the space of one novel? My. Arse.

Oh, the list of guys in love with Bella also includes a teacher, by the way. And no, I am not making this up. It's straight from the author's mouth. (http://twilightmomsforums.freeforums.org/stephenie-meyer-q-a-with-tms-part-1-from-12-28-07-t3222.html)

TM:
I am curious who she meant when she had Edward say:
"You're too desirable for your own good. Do I have to send a petition around to get you to believe? Shall I tell you whose names would be on the top of the list? You know a few of them, but some might surprise you."
From page 445 in Eclipse.
Who the heck is she talking about that would surprise her? I heard a weird rumor/therory somewhere that Jasper had a secret thing for her! I can't imagine that but when I reread this part it made me wonder a bit. HMMMMM.

Steph:
Ha ha! No, it was not Jasper he was talking about. It was the general male populace at FHS, including a member of the faculty.

Yeah...

[scarletpeaches]

Oh FFS. Is Bella hot or not?! She thinks she's a minger so she's obviously never had a serious boyfriend before and yet she moves to Forks and BAM everyone's after her?

WHY? Can someone tell me the attraction of this silly little girl?

[Disdainful Soul]

^^ She's a self-insert, and Twilight is Meyer's own personal fantasy. Therefore the world revolves around her, and she is the most desirable individual out there.

[scarletpeaches]

Pfft. I wrote something like that once. The difference was I was eighteen. Then I grew up.

Well...ish.

[thethinker42]

I agree with scarletpeaches, 100%.

And as for Mr. Perfect McSparklepantz Cullen...I can see someone being attracted to him at first. After all, he's perfect. And shiny. And...perfect. He's perfect like...like something that's incredibly perfect. With SPARKLEZ to boot. What's not to like?

BUT.

The minute he opened his mouth (to speak, not to bite), I would probably run the other way. And the minute I found out he was sitting in my bedroom watching me sleep (whether or not he was biting my pillow to keep from biting ME), I'd get a restraining order on his creepy stalking butt so fast his head would spin.

Edward Cullen is not attractive (except when portrayed by rpattz on the safety of a movie screen). He's creepy and controlling. It doesn't bother me that Meyers wrote such a character, but it raises my eyebrows that SO MANY WOMEN AND GIRLS are obsessed with him.

But I digress. Scarletpeaches is right on the money with this one.

[thethinker42]

and yet she moves to Forks and BAM everyone's after her?

WHY? Can someone tell me the attraction of this silly little girl?

Well, having visited Forks for the express purpose of seeing how badly it was infested with Twilight...I can sort of see why everyone would be after her. Why? BECAUSE SHE'S SOMETHING NEW. Small, isolated town...not a lot of "new" things going on...so people get excited about something new. Maybe that's why everyone in Fictional Forks went gaga over Bella?

[Disdainful Soul]

^^ I can see that as the initial attraction, but after she continually snubs them and ignores them in favour of the Cullens I'd assume the "new girl" attraction would fade. But nope, they're still after her by book four.

[scarletpeaches]

I have #3 and #4 to read. It was a case of wanting to know what all the fuss was about. After all, it wouldn't have been right to pass comment without having read the books and they take me so long to plough through that borrowing them from the library would have meant getting them re-issued time and time again...or paying a four week overdue fine.

Wish me luck.

[thethinker42]

^^ I can see that as the initial attraction, but after she continually snubs them and ignores them in favour of the Cullens I'd assume the "new girl" attraction would fade. But nope, they're still after her by book four.

Obviously you don't realize just how isolated and unaccustomed to new things Forks really is. ;) They looked at my brother and me like we were space aliens. (ok, bad example...)

Hey, I was just trying to give the author the benefit of the doubt...

[atwistedmind]

i told myself i wasn't going to openly admit that i'm reading this book (being that i'm a guy, and people already make fun of me lol) but damn this book is written really well (of course that might be that i've been reading the stand, and anything that is easy to read will be good lol) I'm usually a slow reader, but in the past 2 days i've read 100 pages of it...

[rhymegirl]

Oh, and the book was a little long...took a long time to build up, I felt a lot of the story was unnecessary. And the climax fell short, by a lot. It builds and builds, and nothing. Big letdown on the ending. I thought it was all too convenient.

I have just finished reading Twilight. I agree that it's too long. The author spent way too much time having Bella describe how gorgeous Edward is. I was getting so sick of that. Enough already!

And yes it took a long time to get interesting, for something to happen.

[selkn.asrai]

Disclaimer:

I'm a snot when it comes to literature.

My opinion (and fans won't like it):

I think the flawless lauds this work receives are absurd. I've had people say it's been assigned for their children to read in school. Which is astounding.

Twilight is a shame to story-telling. It is mediocre, poorly edited, melodramatic, cliched, redundant and laughable. Its characters are single-faceted, transparent, Mary Sueish, vapid and static. The author has no discipline, and breaks the rules of the world that SHE created.


The fans of this book have every right to enjoy it without judgment from anyone, because they are intelligent and thoughtful, scrutinizing and respectful, down to earth and just enjoying what they read. And they exist mostly on AW. They are not brainwashed; it does not consume their lives.


The shrieking, slobbering, fanatical fangirls simultaneously terrify and amuse me. They're like crack-addicted Chihuahuas on perpetual attack. My favorite line I've seen them spew:

On Amazon, this book received one of many negative reviews, and it was followed by hundreds of comments by mindless, rabid tweens who demeaned the reviewer (who was quite neutral) because, and I quote, "This is the best book EVER written in the history of ever!!!11!!!!!!!!!"

May my crucifixion begin.

[selkn.asrai]

^^ She's a self-insert, and Twilight is Meyer's own personal fantasy. Therefore the world revolves around her, and she is the most desirable individual out there.

Bingo. Agreed.

[Disdainful Soul]

I think the flawless lauds this work receives are absurd. I've had people say it's been assigned for their children to read in school. Which is astounding.

There are instances of teachers changing the assigned curriculum so that the class reads Twilight. They cut out Shakespeare and other classics in favour of it.

Twilight is a shame to story-telling. It is mediocre, poorly edited, melodramatic, cliched, redundant and laughable. Its characters are single-faceted, transparent, Mary Sueish, vapid and static. The author has no discipline, and breaks the rules of the world that SHE created.

Thank you! It's a fantasy on paper that's being sold to many people. She considers herself to be above research (she said that when she sat down to write it her knowledge of vampires to be equal to that of a five year old on Halloween... and so was all excited that she got to "make stuff up". On another note she cast aside the idea of a particular novel because it would "involve too much research and [she's] lazy") and uses the excuse of "it's just fiction!" when called on her own mistake.

The shrieking, slobbering, fanatical fangirls simultaneously terrify and amuse me. They're like crack-addicted Chihuahuas on perpetual attack. My favorite line I've seen them spew:

On Amazon, this book received one of many negative reviews, and it was followed by hundreds of comments by mindless, rabid tweens who demeaned the reviewer (who was quite neutral) because, and I quote, "This is the best book EVER written in the history of ever!!!11!!!!!!!!!"

They also like the "how many best-selling novels have YOU written?" line.

But honestly I have seen much much worse than that. I have read reports of Twifans insulting, punching, kicking people, throwing bricks at people's heads, keying their cars and attacking them in groups... all because these people have the "gall" to say they didn't like the books or, even worse, actually point out the flaws. In the worst case I have seen, a grown woman wished another would miscarry her twins.

A seven year old girl asked Robert Pattinson to bite her. Other girls scratched their necks until they bled, telling Pattinson that "[they] did it for [him]". Kristen Stewart had to be bundled into a van in Rome and the fans started rocking the van. I have seen comments made by fans that in short say that Stewart is ungrateful for not liking being stalked. They worship Pattinson regardless of what he says and does (simply because he's Edward) and blandly tell Stewart to her face that she had better not mess up their movie.

And that is what really scares me. I have this horrible feeling that it's only going to get worse from here.

[Inkdaub]

Forks! I've been to Forks. Oh yeah.

[KikiteNeko]

I'm sorry, but I could not STAND this series. I checked them out at the library, because if I strongly dislike a book I think I should at least be informed and read it... From what I gather, it's about a martyr human girl who loves to self-sacrifice and suffer for a perfect, absolutely unrealistically unflawed vampire teen who rapes her to near-death on their honeymoon and leaves her begging for more. And for some reason unknown to me, she gives up a Dartmouth scholarship for this?

Such passages like the (verbatim) excerpt below revolted me especially:

"I'd definitely had worse. There was a faint shadow across one of my cheekbones, and my lips were a little swollen, but other than that, my face was fine. The rest of me was decorated with patches of purple and blue. I concentrated on the bruises that would be the hardest to hide--my arms and shoulders. They weren't so bad. My skin marked up easily. By the time a bruise showed I'd usually forgotten how I'd come by it. Of course, these were just developing. I'd look even worse tomorrow." - Taken from Breaking Dawn, about 70 pages in.

I'm sorry, say what? You wake up to realize your husband left bruises all over your body, and then for the next ten pages you work to seduce him so he can do it again, because it's "not so bad"????? What exactly is the message we're sending to the hoards of teenage girls swooning madly over this Edward dude? That this is okay, as long as your husband is perfect and makes you scrambled eggs in the morning?

This is NOT a vampire novel. It's a soap opera the author seems to have just recklessly made up as she went along, with no regards to plot or even characterization. The vampires just happen to be there to add some perfection to the already unbelievable cast.

[scarletpeaches]

The violent sex is the one thing I didn't have a problem with. (I speak as someone who's still reading Book #3 and has only read reviews of #4). I've come out of...um...'episodes' with bruises too and they were all consensual.

I don't think Meyer is here advocating domestic violence but let's face it, Edward is a vampire and anyway...not everyone likes it vanilla.

*ahem*

*sidles out of thread*

[selkn.asrai]

Thank you! It's a fantasy on paper that's being sold to many people. She considers herself to be above research (she said that when she sat down to write it her knowledge of vampires to be equal to that of a five year old on Halloween... and so was all excited that she got to "make stuff up". On another note she cast aside the idea of a particular novel because it would "involve too much research and [she's] lazy") and uses the excuse of "it's just fiction!" when called on her own mistake.


I can't stand when authors think that research is superfluous, and they're better than the time wasted to understand what they're writing about.


They also like the "how many best-selling novels have YOU written?" line.

But honestly I have seen much much worse than that. I have read reports of Twifans insulting, punching, kicking people, throwing bricks at people's heads, keying their cars and attacking them in groups... all because these people have the "gall" to say they didn't like the books or, even worse, actually point out the flaws. In the worst case I have seen, a grown woman wished another would miscarry her twins.

A seven year old girl asked Robert Pattinson to bite her. Other girls scratched their necks until they bled, telling Pattinson that "[they] did it for [him]". Kristen Stewart had to be bundled into a van in Rome and the fans started rocking the van. I have seen comments made by fans that in short say that Stewart is ungrateful for not liking being stalked. They worship Pattinson regardless of what he says and does (simply because he's Edward) and blandly tell Stewart to her face that she had better not mess up their movie.

And that is what really scares me. I have this horrible feeling that it's only going to get worse from here.


Seriously? That's more than terrifying; it's evidence of delusion and psychosis. Usually when people start cutting themselves and relish in self-mutilation, they get sent to a psychiatrist in a hospital ward. When they offer death threats and throw bricks, they're put in a jail cell.

The fandom is dangerous; it's obsession. Only religious worship has seen such fervent, cruel and blind violence.

All from a woman who never knew she wanted to be a writer until, Zomg, she had a dream about a sparkly vampire in a clearing!

But I haven't written a bestseller, so what would I know?

[maestrowork]

I have not read the books or intend to, but the fans' extreme reactions and obsessions bother me. I've heard about Kristen Stewart being threatened with hate mail and bodily injuries -- no death threats yet, I don't think -- and I've heard things about Robert Pattinson -- whoa, these are actors! They are not real -- and neither is Edward the perfect vampire. OK, there's the Beatlemania in the 60s (I don't understand that one either) but this is bordering on absurd. Are female hormones so out of control these days? Where are their parents, when they exhibit such extreme mentality and behaviors? It's one thing to want to read; it's another to be so obsessed with that world, characters, and the ACTORS who play those characters that they don't seem to be able to separate reality with fiction.

[scarletpeaches]

I think it's indicative of a deeper problem, Ray. Young women (and girls) aren't getting the true, genuine affection they need - either from families or friends - so they search for it elsewhere, in these fictional, perfect characters who will never let them down.

[maestrowork]

There are instances of teachers changing the assigned curriculum so that the class reads Twilight. They cut out Shakespeare and other classics in favour of it.

I think it may just be a matter of trying to get the teens to read. Most are resistant to Shakespeare or the classics, but they would devour all of Meyer's books in 2 days.

I think Meyer appeals to the teens for exactly the reasons why some adults (like me) are baffled: it's self-indulgent, Mary-Sueish, unrealistically romantic, single-faceted, etc. It lacks depth, but what 13-year-olds want depth? Meyer succeeded in feeding that daydream and escape -- something she probably knows very well of, Bella being her Mary Sue. Like her writing or not, she knows her target audience, and they continue to feed the frenzy. Then the others got sucked into the frenzy, trying to figure out what all the fuzz is about. Seriously, I'm kind of tempted to read it just to figure out what's going on, and I'm hardly the demographic.

(I did force myself to read The Notebook, and it wasn't too bad, actually. Not my thing, but it wasn't bad. Now, Harry Potter was pretty good, and has much, much, much bigger appeal - Rowling is a great storyteller -- and the research she did -- and deserves all the kudos and fame and fortune. She must be looking at the Twilight phenomenon with great interest....)

[maestrowork]

I think it's indicative of a deeper problem, Ray. Young women (and girls) aren't getting the true, genuine affection they need - either from families or friends - so they search for it elsewhere, in these fictional, perfect characters who will never let them down.

It's pure escapism. I understand escapism, but the extreme obsession and behaviors go beyond escapism -- they become real to them, and that's very alarming. I mean, when you have girls hurting themselves, cutting themselves "just for Edward/Robert Pattinson," something is seriously wrong. Are they really so unhappy in real life? Someone should check on their parents.... It would be a world of hurt when they find out Edward doesn't exist -- and will never exist -- and Pattinson is just an ordinary bloke who acts... ;)

[kuwisdelu]

Over this past week there's been a lot of confusion, so we have asked for this assembly to clarify the difference between goth kids and vampire kids. Let us make it abundantly clear. If you hate life, truly hate the sun, and need to smoke and drink coffee, you are goth. If, however, you like dressing in black 'cos it's "fun", enjoy putting sparkles on your cheeks and following the occult while avoiding things that are bad for your health, you are most likely a douchebag vampire wannabe boner. 'Cos anyone who thinks they are actually a vampire is friggin' retarded.

Fuck all of you.

~Goth Kids from South Park.

Apparently, I'm a goth. Awesome!

Man, I love South Park. :D

[WackAMole]

I think it may just be a matter of trying to get the teens to read. Most are resistant to Shakespeare or the classics, but they would devour all of Meyer's books in 2 days.

I think Meyer appeals to the teens for exactly the reasons why some adults (like me) are baffled: it's self-indulgent, Mary-Sueish, unrealistically romantic, single-faceted, etc. It lacks depth, but what 13-year-olds want depth? Meyer succeeded in feeding that daydream and escape -- something she probably knows very well of, Bella being her Mary Sue. Like her writing or not, she knows her target audience, and they continue to feed the frenzy. Then the others got sucked into the frenzy, trying to figure out what all the fuzz is about. Seriously, I'm kind of tempted to read it just to figure out what's going on, and I'm hardly the demographic.

(I did force myself to read The Notebook, and it wasn't too bad, actually. Not my thing, but it wasn't bad. Now, Harry Potter was pretty good, and has much, much, much bigger appeal - Rowling is a great storyteller -- and the research she did -- and deserves all the kudos and fame and fortune. She must be looking at the Twilight phenomenon with great interest....)

My 15 year old daughter nagged the crap out of me to read Twilight. She begged pleaded and harrassed the crap out of me. I told her I had no interest in reading teeny bopper vampire stories. She bugged me for so long that I finally figured it doesnt hurt for a mom to know what her daughter is reading.

This is NOT my demographic either but I will tell you, I fell in love with the books. All of my coworkers saw me reading them and started reading them and it went on and on.

Last night the lot of us took our daughters and went to see the movie. I have to say, the movie followed the book, almost "verbatim" at times. It was heaps of fun.

the lesson I have learned? I should never consider myself too "smart", "snobby" or "mature" to learn that reading something outside my normal genre can be fun!

I thought it was pure escapist, rapturous fun to read!

(And the movie was great too)

[KikiteNeko]

the lesson I have learned? I should never consider myself too "smart", "snobby" or "mature" to learn that reading something outside my normal genre can be fun!



I guess I'm smart, snobby and mature then. Fine by me.

[WackAMole]

I guess I'm smart, snobby and mature then. Fine by me.

I hope you didnt think I was targetting anyone with that comment other than myself LOL

I enjoyed the books. Are they what I would normally read? Nah, not by a longshot. It did however give me something in common with my daughter which was nice. We looked forward to going to the movie together.

That said, I noticed that her myspace messages were getting a little...errr..sappy for a 15 year old so I found myself having to explain that the romance in the book was purely fiction. It's kind of hard to explain the realities of relationships to kids that age, but I tried. I was a little concerned that the story was a little "too" escapist" to be good for her.

[KikiteNeko]

I hope you didnt think I was targetting anyone with that comment other than myself LOL

I enjoyed the books. Are they what I would normally read? Nah, not by a longshot. It did however give me something in common with my daughter which was nice. We looked forward to going to the movie together.

That said, I noticed that her myspace messages were getting a little...errr..sappy for a 15 year old so I found myself having to explain that the romance in the book was purely fiction. It's kind of hard to explain the realities of relationships to kids that age, but I tried. I was a little concerned that the story was a little "too" escapist" to be good for her.

I would never tell anyone what to read or what not to read. I don't believe in book banning, book burning, etc... Of all the books in the world, it's only natural that I can't like ALL of them. But, speaking as someone who's read these books, I felt they were dangerously unrealistic. Yes, they were fiction, fine. But fiction has to be MORE believable than reality, and this author disregarded her own rules and literally just made it up as she went along... Somehow, she turned a physically violent and dangerous relationship into something that has teenage girls crooning about.

Now I'm not saying teenage girls should only read about happy bunnies and rainbows. If they're mature, sure, they can read adult literature. They can read about rape, incest, torture, death--I'm not saying they can't. I'm saying this book is just a teenage girl's wet dream, and to be honest, not well written, and doesn't make sense... How can a vampire with no bodily fluids impregnate a human girl when Meyer HERSELF said Vampires can't reproduce? And through all the pain and agony Bella goes through, she wants to conceal her pain just to please her husband, and even begs for more?

I guess I don't see what's so addicting... Or even believable, within the realm of fantasy. I would hate for teenagers out there who are just coming to love books to think that a good book is one in which the author just makes it up as she goes along, with no regard to craft, care, or thought... Which is like Twilight, for me anyway.

[TrickyFiction]

I think Meyer appeals to the teens for exactly the reasons why some adults (like me) are baffled: it's self-indulgent, Mary-Sueish, unrealistically romantic, single-faceted, etc. It lacks depth, but what 13-year-olds want depth?

I think this nail just got beat atop the head before it even had a chance to protest. Yep.

[Disdainful Soul]

I'm sorry, but I could not STAND this series. I checked them out at the library, because if I strongly dislike a book I think I should at least be informed and read it... From what I gather, it's about a martyr human girl who loves to self-sacrifice and suffer for a perfect, absolutely unrealistically unflawed vampire teen who rapes her to near-death on their honeymoon and leaves her begging for more. And for some reason unknown to me, she gives up a Dartmouth scholarship for this?

Such passages like the (verbatim) excerpt below revolted me especially:

"I'd definitely had worse. There was a faint shadow across one of my cheekbones, and my lips were a little swollen, but other than that, my face was fine. The rest of me was decorated with patches of purple and blue. I concentrated on the bruises that would be the hardest to hide--my arms and shoulders. They weren't so bad. My skin marked up easily. By the time a bruise showed I'd usually forgotten how I'd come by it. Of course, these were just developing. I'd look even worse tomorrow." - Taken from Breaking Dawn, about 70 pages in.

I'm sorry, say what? You wake up to realize your husband left bruises all over your body, and then for the next ten pages you work to seduce him so he can do it again, because it's "not so bad"????? What exactly is the message we're sending to the hoards of teenage girls swooning madly over this Edward dude? That this is okay, as long as your husband is perfect and makes you scrambled eggs in the morning?

It also bothers me that afterward Edward didn't want to have sex with her again (while she was still human) for fear that he'd hurt her even worse. Bella begged and pleaded and everything and basically wore him down until he gave in.

I've seen a lot of people mention that if the continuous sex-pressure and all sorts was coming from the guy instead of the girl, the reaction from the audience would be very different indeed.

[Perks]

It also bothers me that afterward Edward didn't want to have sex with her again (while she was still human) for fear that he'd hurt her even worse. Bella begged and pleaded and everything and basically wore him down until he gave in.

I've seen a lot of people mention that if the continuous sex-pressure and all sorts was coming from the guy instead of the girl, the reaction from the audience would be very different indeed.Good lord! Now I'm thinking the books would really annoy me. Nevermind.

[DonnaDuck]

http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/b68238_Rob_Pattinson_on_What_s__amp_quot_Weird_amp _quot__About__lt_i_gt_Twilight_lt__i_gt_.html--A rather . . . enlightening interview with Robert Pattinson about the books. He doesn't seem to get it either.

I read the books (only 1 through 3 so far) just to see what all the hype is about. I found them entertaining in a completely superficial way. Wait, let me clarify--I found nearly everything BUT Edward and Bella entertaining. I really, really, really wanted to light them on fire. Yet I couldn't stop reading the books. I devoured them. I mean DEVOURED them and to this day I have no idea why. I wanted to cause bodily harm to both main characters, I didn't a poot about what happened to either of them and yet I couldn't put the damn things down. I'm convinced the pages are lines with crack because I don't see any other reason why I would read cover to cover a book that's so poorly written and ridiculously woven and in which I can't stand the two main (well three main if you count Jacob) characters. I. Don't. Get. It. But I haven't written a best seller so I wouldn't get it, would I?

Now I'm not a crazy bra-burning feminist but these books had be clawing at my own face (metaphorically, I'm not like those rabid fans). I really, really, REALLY don't like the messages these books are sending to these very impressionable (and mentally unstable) young girls. The only way to truly love someone is to forfeit your sense of self and live for that other person. You only exist for the person you love. If they leave, you are nothing. You are to dissolve into a destructive puddle of goo and the only way to get over the loss of your other half is to fill it with another guy. Srsly?

The news covered the first day of the movie's release yesterday and some mom was on TV saying how good Edward and Bella were as role models for these teens. *headdesk and repeat* Because unrealistic expectations aren't being made or anything, right?

And then there were the smaller things, like Carlisle recommending to Edward that he dope Bella in order to have sex with her and them brings it up as a viable means to have sex. Oh yes. Can I get date-raped by Edward too? And then Jacob forcing himself on Bella and instead of fighting she just gives in. That's a good message to send. And then when she tells her father about it, he laughs. LAUGHS. What father, in his right mind, after hearing (and seeing) that his daughter broke her hand punching a guy in the face because he forced himself on her, would laugh and joke about it? Seriously, what father would do that? And what realistic fictional father would actually let Jacob walk out of the house with his head still attached to his neck?

I haven't read book four yet although I know what's haunting me from my TBR pile. I'm not in a rush to read it. I just can't stand the three main characters. I really can't. I like Alice, Jasper, Rosalie and the Volturi. They all have facets of themselves that are heads and tails more multi-dimensional than Edward, Bella or Jacob could ever hope to be and yet they're left by the wayside for a grotesquely unhealthy teenage relationship. I have no problem suspending my disbelief and I probably wouldn't care as much if this were an adult novel but considering the messages it's sending and the target audience, I find it bothersome, at the very least.

Meyer can defend Bella's actions until she's blue in the face. She's anti-human, not anti-feminist. Whatever. The books speak volumes more than Meyer can defend. I just can't interpret Bella's nor Edward's actions beyond what I already have--she's an empty vessel who's defined by the guys she dates and he's a manipulative poster boy whose only redeeming quality, it would seem, are his looks. You know, for a book that's not supposed to be about all the pretty people, it's sure superficial enough.

[Disdainful Soul]

I read the books (only 1 through 3 so far) just to see what all the hype is about. I found them entertaining in a completely superficial way. Wait, let me clarify--I found nearly everything BUT Edward and Bella entertaining. I really, really, really wanted to light them on fire. Yet I couldn't stop reading the books. I devoured them. I mean DEVOURED them and to this day I have no idea why. I wanted to cause bodily harm to both main characters, I didn't a poot about what happened to either of them and yet I couldn't put the damn things down. I'm convinced the pages are lines with crack because I don't see any other reason why I would read cover to cover a book that's so poorly written and ridiculously woven and in which I can't stand the two main (well three main if you count Jacob) characters. I. Don't. Get. It. But I haven't written a best seller so I wouldn't get it, would I?

The books may look long, but the font is big, the plot is simple, it's a whole lot of nothing said in a lot of words, and thus it is quick to read.

Also, the pages ARE lined with crack.

Now I'm not a crazy bra-burning feminist but these books had be clawing at my own face (metaphorically, I'm not like those rabid fans). I really, really, REALLY don't like the messages these books are sending to these very impressionable (and mentally unstable) young girls. The only way to truly love someone is to forfeit your sense of self and live for that other person. You only exist for the person you love. If they leave, you are nothing. You are to dissolve into a destructive puddle of goo and the only way to get over the loss of your other half is to fill it with another guy. Srsly?

Yep. Pretty much.

And that reminds me of a few other stories of crazy Twifans (I collect them... they're my own version of horror stories). There's one about a grown woman who chased down a man at her work to date him. She eventually married him. What about his was so appealing? His surname was Cullen, and her first name was Rosalie. Yep.

And then there is the story of the fifteen year old who chased after a guy and had sex with him simply because his name was Edward. She ended up pregnant and was going to give the baby up for adoption but changed her mind because [SPOILERS] of the events of book four, where Bella gets knocked up and keeps the baby. The girl named the baby Renesmee Bella Stephenie. Fortunately she was convinced that looking after a real baby was not as fun as a mutant genius who grows at three times the normal rate and is taken care of by her aunt and her future lover. The adoptive parents changed the name, thankfully.

The news covered the first day of the movie's release yesterday and some mom was on TV saying how good Edward and Bella were as role models for these teens. *headdesk and repeat* Because unrealistic expectations aren't being made or anything, right?

It's the "no sex before marriage" thing. They hear that they won't have sex before marriage, but don't care about the emotional abuse, nor Bella's constant begging for sex, despite knowing that Edward wants to wait. Oh, and she's only willing to wait because it's part of a deal. She'll wait until marriage because then he'll turn her.

And then there were the smaller things, like Carlisle recommending to Edward that he dope Bella in order to have sex with her and them brings it up as a viable means to have sex. Oh yes. Can I get date-raped by Edward too? And then Jacob forcing himself on Bella and instead of fighting she just gives in. That's a good message to send. And then when she tells her father about it, he laughs. LAUGHS. What father, in his right mind, after hearing (and seeing) that his daughter broke her hand punching a guy in the face because he forced himself on her, would laugh and joke about it? Seriously, what father would do that? And what realistic fictional father would actually let Jacob walk out of the house with his head still attached to his neck?

Yeah. WTF?!

I haven't read book four yet although I know what's haunting me from my TBR pile. I'm not in a rush to read it. I just can't stand the three main characters. I really can't. I like Alice, Jasper, Rosalie and the Volturi. They all have facets of themselves that are heads and tails more multi-dimensional than Edward, Bella or Jacob could ever hope to be and yet they're left by the wayside for a grotesquely unhealthy teenage relationship. I have no problem suspending my disbelief and I probably wouldn't care as much if this were an adult novel but considering the messages it's sending and the target audience, I find it bothersome, at the very least.

Some of the minor characters are good, so long as they stay minor. If they get any attention they become warped so that they help Bella and Edward's romance. SM has some good ideas in her head (like the vampire wars) but she casts them aside in favour of her self-insert's romance with the Adonis made of stone.

Meyer can defend Bella's actions until she's blue in the face. She's anti-human, not anti-feminist. Whatever. The books speak volumes more than Meyer can defend. I just can't interpret Bella's nor Edward's actions beyond what I already have--she's an empty vessel who's defined by the guys she dates and he's a manipulative poster boy whose only redeeming quality, it would seem, are his looks. You know, for a book that's not supposed to be about all the pretty people, it's sure superficial enough.

Yep. There's an interesting example about how Bella only responds to the pretty people. Eric, whom Bella describes as the geeky chess club type, offers to help Bella find her next class. She turns him down. Later Mike makes the exact same offer, which pretty much the exact same words, and she accepts.

Only difference is that Mike is good-looking (although not as good-looking as Edward, obviously).


And for one last scary story, SM said in an interview with Twimoms that she doesn't like her husband being so blah about her devotion to her characters. If Edward showed up at her door she'd leave her husband for Edward. Pancho Meyer, in a case of epic win, merely responded to being told that with, "Yeah, you do that, Steph." SM, meanwhile, says that he doesn't understand - just because they're fictional doesn't mean they're not real!

[DamaNegra]

http://fc25.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/133/e/6/e68024b002996206ec9ddf8001e72e81.jpg

http://fc25.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/133/e/6/e68024b002996206ec9ddf8001e72e81.jpg

:D

[Disdainful Soul]

http://fc25.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/133/e/6/e68024b002996206ec9ddf8001e72e81.jpg

:D

Have you seen the sequel?

http://fc57.deviantart.com/fs36/f/2008/259/d/3/Head_Trip____Breaking_Dawn____by_shinga.jpg

[DamaNegra]

I love those comics.

[Disdainful Soul]

Poor Shinga's still getting hatemail about them. :/

[KikiteNeko]

Anyone who hasn't read Twilight, or has read it and doesn't understand why their brain is now broken: someone posted a pretty entertaining chapter-by-chapter summary you should check out:

http://shinga.livejournal.com/478415.html

[DonnaDuck]

Perhaps parents of those Twi fans should sit down with their own hell spawn and have a long talk? Because, you know, it's not all that cool to rear a child thrown unstable by sparkly vampires. Really.