General guidelines for format

[BrianTubbs]

I assume double-spaced. Should I indent paragraphs? I would think I have to, unless I put extra spaces between paragraphs.

[Grey Malkin]

Indent by about half an inch - the extra space between paragraphs is really an internet thing to get round the lack of tabulation. Double spaced lines, nice fat margins left, right, top and bottom and page numbers - usually at the bottom. Some people justify text (all lined up nice and neat) and some hate it. Doesn't really matter one way or the other. Times New Roman, 12 point is pretty standard - I used to use Courier until an agent advised me to swap (but Courier looks like typewriter text!!! much more fun :)). Make it clean and legible, neat and boring. The more boring it looks, the more professional it looks (consider a simple fat manuscript bound with two elastic bands sitting next to a laminated, ring bound shiny thing with a self-designed cover and stickers from the local stationary shop). Don't use staples or paperclips or shiny, plastic covers (they can slip if you pile one on top of the other and cause chaos).

that's about it. Do a simple cover sheet with name, address, contact details, title in the centre and the word count (rounded to nearest 500 words)

That any help?

Grey

[alleycat]

Indent, don't put extra spaces.

You might also wanted to read this thread: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26126

[BrianTubbs]

Very helpful...thank you.

Do I start new chapters on new pages?

[BrianTubbs]

Strike that question. I found my answer. Thanks.

[Sandi LeFaucheur]

Some people justify text (all lined up nice and neat) and some hate it. Doesn't really matter one way or the other.
Grey

Do not justify. Doesn't matter if it makes it look nice and neat. Don't do it in a ms.

[Grey Malkin]

Do not justify. Doesn't matter if it makes it look nice and neat. Don't do it in a ms.

This is a bit of an "old school" guideline. Justification isn't what it used to be. In the eighties, to justify text, a word processor would put in extra full character spaces near the ends of the lines, making some spaces look ridiculously big. Modern word processors like Word don't do that - the spacing is more even across the entire line, so you don't get the visual jog you got back in the early days of word processing.

It really is up to the individual, and so picky a point that it's never really going to put an agent or editor off reading your script, not if the script is otherwise clean and legible.

Personally, I always choose to justify text. I've had several requests for full manuscripts following submissions, so I guess it hasn't caused too much of a problem.

Grey,

ps - I do know of one copy editor who does dislike justified text, but only because he feels it makes proof reading a little harder.

[Sandi LeFaucheur]

ps - I do know of one copy editor who does dislike justified text, but only because he feels it makes proof reading a little harder.

And the last thing I want to do is make an editor's life harder! Imagine--he's had a fight with his wife, his dog threw up on his shoes, his piles are giving him grief, and he opens a justified manuscript! :)

You're correct that justification is a lot better than it used to be. I've been in administration since Noah was a lad, and have typed on everything from clunky old Underwoods (manual, the kind that break your little finger every time you hit the letter "a") to brand-new computers. And yes, justification is better. And yes, I do justify business letters because I think it looks nicer. But it has been proven that justified text is harder to read and actually slows the reader down. So I would never encourage anyone to use justified text on a submission.

But hey, if it works for you, who am I to argue? :)

[Jamesaritchie]

Do not EVER justify. Even today, it screws up all sorts of things. As an editor, I automatically reject anything that comes in justified without reading word one. Anyone who thinks this won't put an agent or editor off hasn't dealt with many agents or editors. This is an automatic reject from many, many editors, and most agents know enough to hate it, as well.

For those who do not reject it automatically, you're still giving them a bad impression, and you're telling them your likes are more important than their guidelines, nearly ALL of which tell writers not to justify text.

Never, ever justify text. There's absolutely no reason for any writer to do this, and many reasons why editors hate it just as much today as they ever did. Guidelines all over the place say not to justify, and any writer who wants to get far had better find the guidelines, and had better follow them.

And an agent aside, use Courier 12. Most agents know quite a bit about what kind of novels publishers want, but darned few of them know jack squat about format, and why publishers want certain format. Times usually won't get you rejected. . .I know only two editors who hate Times enough to reject it, but I know a lot of editors who start reading Times with a bad attitude. I'm one who has a nasty attitude when I see Times. It gives me a headache, and my hand isn't steady enough to easily edit those small, cramped letters.

One one inch margins all around, double-space everything, and indent half an inch.

And for heaven's sake, find the guidelines and follow them to the letter.

[Grey Malkin]

Jeeeez - I guess that's me well and truly spanked. :)

Don't take this the wrong way, I appreciate the inside information and to tell the truth I was always reluctant to switch from Courier to Times. The reason given by the agent was that we read by word recognition, not by reading the actual letters in a word, so the more familiar the font, the better, and Times Roman is a familiar font. But hey, let's here it for Courier. :hooray:

Grey
(no longer justifying scripts :))

[Jamesaritchie]

Jeeeez - I guess that's me well and truly spanked. :)

Don't take this the wrong way, I appreciate the inside information and to tell the truth I was always reluctant to switch from Courier to Times. The reason given by the agent was that we read by word recognition, not by reading the actual letters in a word, so the more familiar the font, the better, and Times Roman is a familiar font. But hey, let's here it for Courier. :hooray:

Grey
(no longer justifying scripts :))

This is where many agents go wrong. It isn't how we read that matters, it's how we edit, and Times is an absolute beast to edit. And with editors, Courier is the most familiar font there is, anyway. It's been in use for more than one hundred years. It's the same size and shape as Pica was on typewriters, and it's always been the industry standard.

Seriously, type out a page of Times and a page of Courier, and try to insert proofreaders' marks in both. It's immensely easier and fast with Courier.

The font you use in a manuscript is not about reading, it's about ease of editing. Now, if everything is elctronic, Times is a good choice, but when submitting in print, or when an editor is going to edit by hand, Courier makes the job far, far easier for editor and writer alike. When you get a copyedited manuscript back from an editor, you'll probably have to edit it using proofreaders' marks, as well.

Courier also spaces much differently than Courier, and an editor has a much easier time knowing just what he's getting into in the publishng process with Courier.

I'd hate to read a published novel in Courier, but for the editing and publishing process, you can't beat it. And believe me, every editor in the world is familiar with Courier.

[Grey Malkin]

No sarcasm intended there - I really mean I'll be going back to courier. I've even got a sound system on my laptop that makes a typewriter "click" noise each time I hit a key.

And yeah, those points about editing marks make more sense than the reasons I was given in favour of Times - which, incidentally, came from a reader who was with an agency, not the agent.

Grey

[Bk_30]

Courier also spaces much differently than Courier, and an editor has a much easier time knowing just what he's getting into in the publishng process with Courier.

I appreciate you clearing that up. I had been confused as to why it mattered between the two. I also like to see that editors aren't perfect all the time either, makes it easier for me to accept my own mistakes :D

[Southern_girl29]

and Times is an absolute beast to edit. And with editors, Courier is the most familiar font there is, anyway. It's been in use for more than one hundred years. It's the same size and shape as Pica was on typewriters, and it's always been the industry standard.


It's so funny you feel this way, because I feel the exact opposite. I edit copy typed in Times every day, and in print, too, and I basically hate any other type of font. For six years, I worked at one newspaper, where all we use for story font is Times, except for editorials which are done in Courier. For four of those years, I worked as Lifestyles Editor and would ocassionally fill in for the editor-in-chief when he was on vacation. When I did, I hated trying to edit the editorials. Last year, I worked for seven months as editor-in-chief of a small newspaper where the style was Times New Roman. I hated that, too. When I came back to the original newspaper, I was never so glad to see a font in my life as I was Times.

[Grey Malkin]

Just thought I'd add a little note to this thread because it shook me up a little - the reason was that a day or two before this thread appeared, I sent off a full manuscript to a UK agent. The script was in Times, double spaced and even justified.

Well, the agent phoned me up and I got a contract.

I guess its the writing that's important after all - not the packaging.

BTW, I asked her about this subject when she called. For her needs, she prefers Times, double spaced, aligned left (not justified).

Thought this might be of interest.

Grey.

[Jamesaritchie]

Just thought I'd add a little note to this thread because it shook me up a little - the reason was that a day or two before this thread appeared, I sent off a full manuscript to a UK agent. The script was in Times, double spaced and even justified.

Well, the agent phoned me up and I got a contract.

I guess its the writing that's important after all - not the packaging.

BTW, I asked her about this subject when she called. For her needs, she prefers Times, double spaced, aligned left (not justified).

Thought this might be of interest.

Grey.

It may be different in the UK, but never confuse the formatting an agent will accept with the fromatting editors want. The agent doesn't have to edit the novel, just sell it, and as an editor, it ticks me off when agent want a format that's different from what makes my life easier.

[Grey Malkin]

That makes sense, as did your other post, and agents (being closer to the "inside" than unpublished authors) should understand this.

Now that scripts can be emailed when the final draft is ready, it should never be a problem for an agent to change the format at the last minute from what they like to what the targeted editor prefers.

But I'll bet four pounds thirty-six that isn't always the case :)

[awatkins]

Congratulations on your contract, Grey. :)

[Bk_30]

Hey Grey Malkin- congrats! :)

[Zolah]

Just thought I'd add a little note to this thread because it shook me up a little - the reason was that a day or two before this thread appeared, I sent off a full manuscript to a UK agent. The script was in Times, double spaced and even justified.

Well, the agent phoned me up and I got a contract.

I guess its the writing that's important after all - not the packaging.

BTW, I asked her about this subject when she called. For her needs, she prefers Times, double spaced, aligned left (not justified).

Thought this might be of interest.

Grey.

Wheee! Well done! Oddly that's what my agent says she prefers too. Do we have the same agent?

[Grey Malkin]

Yes.

Well, okay, I'm guessing, unless there are more agents out there who prefer Times - who knows. I've also just found out that she prefers real italics, rather than underlined text to indicate italics. I guess some people like the old school and some don't.

Thanks for the congrats. Signed the contract a week ago but I've had my head down for revisions for the past two.

grey

[Wolfling]

[quote=Southern_girl29;754019]It's so funny you feel this way, because I feel the exact opposite. I edit copy typed in Times every day, and in print, too, and I basically hate any other type of font. For six years, I worked at one newspaper, where all we use for story font is Times, except for editorials which are done in Courier. ]

I also worked for a newspaper and we always used Times. I thought all newspapers used that font. It looks like news writing. For MS I use Courier, and I notice that most guidelines state to use Courier.

[Mr Moe]

I had trouble switching from TNR to Courier at first, but after weeks of self-revision reading my own pages, after proof reading several years of TNR student essays, I must say it's much easier on the eyes and more editable.

Sincerely,
Mr. Moe