He shrugged with a smile, nodded his head, raised an eyebrow and stared

[Shadow_Ferret]

I'm working on my WIP and I decided to see how many times my characters smile and grin and laugh and so on. I came up with:

88 smiles
27 grins
42 shrugs
21 raised eyebrows
59 laughs
13 chuckles
25 stares
18 sighs
40 breaths
55 head shakes
66 nods
12 pauses

Does that seem excessive for a 63,000 word count manuscript? (434 pages, so according to the 250 method, 108000 words).

I mean, it's only a smile every 4 pages.

[maestrowork]

He sure smiles a lot.

Write what you like in this draft. Get the story and characters out. But in your next draft, try to examine every smile, grin, shrug, and pauses, and see if they're really necessary or if they can be rewritten.

Have fun.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Actually, I've finished my first revision. That's why I was doing the analysis. He does smile a lot. I think many of them are just fill during dialog. I guess I have this tendency to think that I need to add stage directions to the conversations to spice things up a little. But I find as I'm doing this revision that I can eliminate a few of them and just let the dialog carry along just find.

For instance, in this sequence I have a shrugged, a smile, and a blink.

He blinked. For a vampire his age, that's the equivalent of a shocked expression. "You know what you face and yet you dare to be impertinent?"

I made a mental note to look up impertinent when I got home.

"I wouldn't call it a dare so much, Count Chocula, as just a simple lack of respect."

He took a step toward me and I stepped back. He smiled. "I see you do fear me."

I shrugged. "It's your breath, actually." I didn't feel it was necessary to explain that I merely feared his physical strength. If he were to get a hold of me, he could kick my *** no problem.

[LeeFlower]

I don't see a problem with the stage directions in that scene. The blink especially is clearly more than simple filler.

There's no real magic formula as to how many smiles, blinks, etc is too many. If it bugs two or more of your betas, it might be something to look at. If it doesn't, I wouldn't worry too much.

[Serena Casey]

You got me curious, so I counted mine. It had been bothering me a little, too, about how many smiles/sighs/head shakes I had. Here's what I have in my 65,000-word ms just for comparison's sake:

36 smiles
3 grins
8 shrugs
3 raised eyebrows
15 laughs
2 chuckles
20 stares
25 sighs
24 breaths
11 head shakes
26 nods
6 pauses

When I see these occurrences one after another while counting, they seem excessive, but when reading the whole thing, they're spaced out pretty well.

As I write, I'm always picturing the characters interacting as if a movie version of my book were being made, and I want to capture every nuance of their expressions, but I know that's not practical or even necessary. Maybe that's what you're doing, too?

[Willowmound]

You could of course write just plain dialogue. But why bore yourself and the reader? I'm sure if you text-scanned your favourite novels and did simmilar counts, you'd get simmilar results.

Writing is after all about writing. Words. That describe. These counts look perfectly fine to me.

[gp101]

Does that seem excessive for a 63,000 word count manuscript?

Hmmm. I'd say yes. Without a doubt. Then I went over my own 85,000 word monstrosity (already many edits into it):


66 smiles
16 shrugs
14 laughs/laughter
4 grins
2 raised eyebrows
2 chuckles
6 sighs
42 stares
9 breaths
65 nods
6 pauses
19 head shakes

I call you on the nods, and raise you on the stares.

[Carrie in PA]

This thread is perfect timing!! I was just looking over my WIP last night and realize that my MC shrugs and smiles and sighs an awful lot, too. Maybe I'll do the actual math to see *how* many times.

[Christine N.]

My last book I had a bunch of dizzy bobbleheads.... everyone kept turning and nodding at everything. It got on my nerves. I try to limit POV character stage direction, and go with more feelings and thoughts, because we're inside that character's head. Gives the reader a little more meat.

That doesn't mean they don't smile or shrug or knit their brow, but just not as often. And Lee Flower is right, sometimes a blink or a shrug can have more meaning than just direction.

[Nakhlasmoke]

Ah! I am not alone. 96 000 words, and most of them seem to be "stared"

43 smiles
28 shrugs (omg)
20 laughs
21 grins
69 stares (argh!)
10 breathes
36 sighs

Then I gave up. I never thought of looking at stuff like that. It's very depressing.

[NeuroFizz]

Make a list of all of the actions your POV character can detect coming from someone else in the scene. Now, next to each make another list of ways that action can be used to show different reactions of that individual. Finally, rank them in rough terms of how noticeable they may be, and if there are any special conditions needed for them to be noticed. Now you have a masterlist of ways to have your POV character detect reactions in other characters. For a test, next time you are in a crowd of people, like in the airport, observe several people and try to guess their current emotinal states, and take note of why you think that. Look for peculiar things people do when they are happy, aggravated, sad, etc.

I bet facial changes are highest on most people's lists because 1) many facial structures (e.g. eyebrows) and facial muscles are believed to have evolved to display emotional states and 2) when we talk to someone, or watch them, we tend to spend more time looking at their faces than other parts, unless the other parts are made memorable (hint on the special conditions for your list).

[Tracy]

What an apt thread! Because I was thinking the opposite - that surely I didn't have enough such tags in my WIP, and too many sections of just dialogue. But this has helped me realise that there is such a thing as too much too! And reading over my mss, I think I have it about right. I don't need to flag every gesture - gotta credit the reader with some sense.

So thanks guys!

[Saundra Julian]

I seem to do a lot with "eyes"......sighs

[stormie]

Good thread! I tend to overuse "shrugged" to the point where I actually shrug every time I write the word. :e2shrug:

[JanDarby]

A lot of times, this kind of generic stage directions is used because nothing else is happening in the scene except for the talking heads. If you've got unique actions going on, you don't need to fill in with generic ones.

For the sample quote above, take a look at the action. All that's happening is that two people are standing around talking. What I try to do in second drafts, when I've got talking heads, is to give one of them a small fidget or sub-action that's going on against the background of the conversation, and either reinforces the dialogue, gives the dialogue new meaning or completely undercuts the conversation.

Just to show you what I mean, and without suggesting AT ALL that this is how your story would unfold, b/c this is pretty lame, here's an example:

He blinked. For a vampire his age, that's the equivalent of a shocked expression. "You know what you face and yet you dare to be impertinent?"

I made a mental note to look up impertinent when I got home, even as I unobtrusively scanned the room, seeking an escape route.

"I wouldn't call it a dare so much, Count Chocula, as just a simple lack of respect."

He took a step toward me, cutting off my view of possible escape routes, and I stepped back, maintaining enough space to dart around him when the time was right. He smiled. "I see you do fear me."

I felt the wall behind me, and I couldn't back up any further, so I stopped and held my ground. "It's your breath, actually." I didn't feel it was necessary to explain that I merely feared his physical strength. If he were to get a hold of me, he could kick my *** no problem.


Well, that's not a really good example, but do you see how there's sort of a sub-story going on, of the protagonist trying to escape, even as he's putting on a brave face, as if he couldn't care less about escaping, and the vampire making his escape more difficult? (It's all about conflict, on multiple layers.) See if you can layer in that sort of duality, and it will cut down on the more generic actions.

Also, be extremely wary of laughter and crying. Some brilliant person (whose name, like most names, eludes me) said that if the character does either of those on the page, then the reader won't need to do it for the character. Comedy, in particular, is much funnier on the page if the characters deliver and accept it with a straight face. And we're much more likely to feel sympathy (and want to cry) for a character who's holding it together despite great misery, rather than dissolving into a puddle of tears. A single drop or two, sure, but a puddle, not so much. Think about really top-notch sit-coms, like MASH (brilliant writing, stands up to the test of time), and how the lines were delivered straight usually, and that contributed to how funny it was. I write light-hearted stuff, so I have more experience with the laughter type of things than the crying stuff, but, hey, what about Gone With The Wind. Ends with Scarlett being told that her true love is abandoning her. Does she cry? Heck no, she says "there's always tomorrow" (or some such). And we cry for her.

JD

[Christine N.]

Sometimes I think the constant shrugging is the writer's indecision about what to do. They think the character must do - something - and when in doubt, shrug! LOL

[Soccer Mom]

I'm a serial shrugger in my writing. I just let it be in rough draft and slash most of it in revision. Ditto lots of the smiles. I also have a tendency for people to pause. A lot.

You're in good company, SF. To echo a little of what Neuro said. A lot depends on your POV. What is the narrator going to notice? A forty YO man and 15 YO girl will notice different things. Just a thought.

[Carrie in PA]

I'm a serial shrugger in my writing. I just let it be in rough draft and slash most of it in revision. Ditto lots of the smiles. I also have a tendency for people to pause. A lot.

*wiping tear as I smile*

Suddenly I... I don't feel... so ALONE anymore!! I could just shrug - er, hug! - all of you!

[Becky Writes]

My folks shrug, nod and smile a lot, too.

Do we not do that in real life? Maybe some of us are more antimated than others, but I feel like when I speak I use a good amount of body langauage.

[Serena Casey]

Do we not do that in real life? Maybe some of us are more antimated than others, but I feel like when I speak I use a good amount of body langauage.
Yes, I agree, and so at first I was thinking the only way to make it realistic would be to record every instance where I picture the characters doing these things. I see what Jan's saying, though, because it would get awfully repetitive, since some people smile or shrug quite often in conversation! :)

[ChaosTitan]

What a fascinating idea. I combed through my 83,000 co-authored WIP, and discovered these:

smile - 75
laugh - 47
stare - 42
grin - 41
nod - 36
shrug - 31
sigh - 30
frown - 20
chuckle - 10

::sharpens the pruning shears::

[maestrowork]

I think these data are interesting, make us aware of we might have overused certain words or ways of telling emotions. I do think that they maybe irrelevant when it comes to the quality of the ms. Just because you have 88 "smiled" in a 100K ms. doesn't mean they're going to jump out like sore thumbs. It depends on how you use these words, and the contexts. The best approach is to listen to your betas (and choose your betas well). If a few of them say, "You know? Your characters smiled and giggled a lot" then you know you have a problem. In my first ms., a character blushed a lot and my betas pointed that out -- not only was the word overused, it was unnecessary and cliched. So I reworked that. But I didn't get any complaints about "smiled" or "grinned" so I didn't even worry about them.

I do think you need to think about if you're depending too much on stage directions as fillers because nothing else is happening. If that's the case, then your betas will probably figure out, too.

[NeuroFizz]

I agree with Ray, and I'll add that this is what an editor is for, once the manuscript is in the hands of a publisher. At the self-editing stage, though, too many beats in a length of dialogue will stick out. Too few, and the dialogue will fly by. The real question, to me, is whether the writer is relying too much on actions to show emotions instead of conveying them with the actual dialogue. What is said can have more of an impact on how it is said than merely listing how it was said in an accompanying action. Sometimes, however, the opposite is true. Mix it up, but make the dialogue count in conveying emotion. The characters will appreciate the rest for their eyebrow and smile muscles.

[MidnightMuse]

I would think these tags are only an issue if they're standing out in the reading. Are they noticable, or do they seem natural ? Are they spaced out, or clumped together?

The only time things like shrugged or smiled or crossed his arms stand out to me is when they're used too often on the same page or within minutes of each other. I'd say if they stand out to you, or to your readers, then they're a problem. If they seem invisible, like said or replied, then there's no issue.

I've been guilty on occasion of using one or two physical motions too often, but during a read after penning the first draft, they'll stick out to me and I can catch them and correct them.

[Bufty]

Great illustration from, Jan, I thought.

Every time I use shrugged or smiled or blinked or whatever, I ask myself - why did the character react like this? If the answer is not obvious and it adds nothing to the interpretation of either the dialogue or the character - I cut.

[CaroGirl]

It's great to have these possible problems brought to my attention. I don't have access to my ms right at the moment, but as soon as I get back to it, I'm going to search for these issues and see if I've fallen victim to the "noddies".

Thanks for making me at least think about it. This place rocks.

[Bufty]

Re 'smiled' in particular. To me, to simply say that someone 'smiled' - without anything to truly reveal how or why they smiled - is often pretty lame because to say someone smiled means, to me at least, they smiled as in 'take my photo'.

[NeuroFizz]

A book I found useful is Creating Character Emotions by Ann Hood.

A good way to discover repetition is to read aloud.

[JanDarby]

I don't think it's the FREQUENCY of these things that's the issue, so much as that they're generic and pretty meaningless, almost invisible even. They don't tell us much about the character, at least not in comparison with alternatives that are more tailored to individual characters.

In the interest of full disclosure, though, here's the count from my 27,000 word novella (so you might triple it for a 100K single-title):

6 smiles (all used for one particular character who's a beauty pagent type)
5 grins
10 shrugs
0 raised eyebrows
6 laughs (but usually referring to NOT laughing, "she wasn't laughing")
0 chuckles (although it's awkward to use when the character is "Chuck")
9 stares
6 sighs
0 breaths
0 head shakes
6 nods
0 pauses

JD

[Saint Fool]

LOL - would that the author of the bad book I am reading (don't ask) had read theis before he began it. So far all five of the characters who have been killed have either made a "mewling" noise or have "mewled" before they died.

[Serena Casey]

all five of the characters who have been killed have either made a "mewling" noise or have "mewled" before they died
Eww.

[Christine N.]

Meow.

[Tienci]

So I went through my 94k first draft and oh boy...
224 'smiled'
82 'sighed'
and 101 'laughed'

*gulp*:gone:

I've got some serious pruning to do!

[Sunshine13]

I'm not so sure if smiling or shrugging is much my concern, mainly because my story doesn't involve very happy people and all :p HOWEVER, I do a lot with the eyes. I wonder sometimes how important it is but when I notice I'm doing it it feels important at that precise moment. Then I go back and cut.

You know, the character gives my POV a look, or is paying attention to her. Then sometimes I think, do I really need to say "He shifted his gaze to her...." I mean, if she were speaking to him, I'd assume the reader would assume he'd be looking at her. But then, there are thos emoments like at the end of a good chapter (here's hoping anyway) "They stood, staring out into the malevolent storm. She cast a glance towards his rigid profile, realizing ...." blah blah blah. I want the reader to picture them standing together and her looking up at him, so there it's relivant (I think I spelled that incorrectly...and to think I'm a writer haha).

[Serena Casey]

Yeah, that looking thing is hard for me, too. Sometimes I just can't find another word for it that works. I should probably count the "looks" in my ms too!

[Becky Writes]

I read a book recently in which the author continually used the phrase she "made a face."

I thought it was terrible.

[My-Immortal]

I'm about 60% done with my WIP and I checked out the "smiles" and "laughs" etc...

Smile - maybe a dozen with none for the MC
Laugh - also around a dozen with none for the MC
Stare - couple dozen with a handful for the MC
Grin - less than ten with none for the MC
Nod - less than ten with a couple for the MC
Shrug - around a dozen or so with a handful for the MC
Sigh - about a dozen or so with most of them coming from a secondary character and none for the MC
Frown - about a dozen with none for the MC
Chuckle - about a dozen or so, with the bulk coming from two of the secondary characters and none for the MC

Overall, I think that's pretty good. I never really considered if a specific character 'grinned' or 'laughed' or 'sighed' too much (or too little)...but rather if those actions were needed and pertinent to the individual characters.

[Becky Writes]

I tried counting the smiles and nods, but I had to quit. I swear my characters must be the happiest, most agreeable people ever thunk up.

[Carrie in PA]

I tried counting the smiles and nods, but I had to quit. I swear my characters must be the happiest, most agreeable people ever thunk up.

*snort* Mine are the shruggiest. LOL

[Akiahara]

is there a way to search for all of that? i'm only 20k words into what i'm writing now... but i'd like to see what i overuse so far.

i only saw four shrugs or a variation of shrug, at least. :)

[Shadow_Ferret]

Well, you can do a search and replace. Search for "smile" and replace it with *** or something else that you wouldn't normally use in your text. The function will then say, "Have made 22 replacements." Then make sure you either hit Undo, or replace the *** with smile and you're back where you began. (And when you close, make sure you don't save just to be safe.)

Unless somebody knows an easier way.

[Akiahara]

Well, you can do a search and replace. Search for "smile" and replace it with *** or something else that you wouldn't normally use in your text. The function will then say, "Have made 22 replacements." Then make sure you either hit Undo, or replace the *** with smile and you're back where you began. (And when you close, make sure you don't save just to be safe.)

Unless somebody knows an easier way.
aha. see, i've never used the whole find & replace thing. ;) but i guess it's time to see...

*opens up laptop (which is funny, right, 'cuz the laptop is in my lap but i'm on this forum on the desktop. ha!) and ms*

so, in my 20k unfinished MS... .i have all these. they're all variations on the word in some way.

smile - 33 (OUCH!)
laugh - 3
stare - 29
raised eyebrows - 5
breaths - 11
grin - 0 (they're so unhappy!)
nod - 11
shrugs - 4
sigh - 14
frown - 8
chuckle - 2
giggle - 2
(a question was "asked" 63 times)
(the word "vampire" appears 85 times, describing the bad guy, a good guy, and his coderie of vampires)
(cougar, which describes my MC, is mentioned 21 times)

i'll make a note to fix that whole smile thing. just out of curiosity... i was talking to a family member today about passive verbs. so i did a search for was and it's variations (it picked up was, were, is, be, being, been, are) and do you know how many it found?

906!

oh, and I hit ctrl + F to bring up find and replace... under the find tab, in the lower left corner it says, "highlight all items found in:" then has a drop down menu. i chose "main document" and all it did was highlight them (and count what was highlighted), so i didn't have to worry about changing replaced words. ;)

[mkcbunny]

LOL - would that the author of the bad book I am reading (don't ask) had read theis before he began it. So far all five of the characters who have been killed have either made a "mewling" noise or have "mewled" before they died.
This would drive me insane. I'm obsessed with word reps. The less common the word, the more its overuse is a problem. A word like "mewl," you can use once. Maybe a second time much later in another context, but I doubt it. I'll have to do a word search on my MS to see how I'm doing with the "smiles" and such. Right now, I have words highlighted all through the MS and in Post-its to search and check because I know I'm using them too much, but I don't want to get hung up on them just yet. "Smile" is definitely onee of them. I'd wager "nod" is right behind it.

It always bothers me when I see the same uncommon word reused within a page or two in a book. I think, "Didn't anyone notice how much this stands out?"

[gp101]

A lot of times, this kind of generic stage directions is used because nothing else is happening in the scene except for the talking heads. If you've got unique actions going on, you don't need to fill in with generic ones.

JD

I think we all need to slow down. We're turning this into an epidemic when it might not really be one.

JD, I agree with your observation that sometimes "generic stage directions [are] used because nothing else is happening in the scene except for the talking heads". Those occurences that add nothing to the scene should be cut. I also appreciate your concern for the repetition of words and understand your logic for coming up with viable substitutes. However, you can come up with twenty different substitutes for the word "smile" and it might not necessarily make the writing better. The action, or notion, of smiling will still come up twenty times, regardless if you use the word "smile" or its many substitutes. Like you hinted, you need to ask if the action, not the word, is really necessary, and cut those that aren't.

Your re-write example may have gotten rid of some repetition, but it also nearly doubled the word count and introduced a lot of new material that slowed the read; not to mention you increased the repetition of the word "I" greatly. It's a give and take. Cut the number "smiling" actions (or whatever stage bit) that are not necessary, and change a few to an alternative version of "smile", but I think going overboard with this is like someone substituting all the alternatives for "said" in dialogue attributions. It can get annoying, if not confusing. Sometimes a smile is just a smile.

I think some people are under the impression that these checklists of overly used words are occuring only as beats in dialogue. At least with me, and I'm sure with most, the count included the number of times the specified words were used throughout the entire manuscript, including narrative. My personal tally (in an 83,000 word manny) again was:

66 smiles
16 shrugs
14 laughs/laughter
4 grins
2 raised eyebrows
2 chuckles
6 sighs
42 stares
9 breaths
65 nods
6 pauses
19 head shakes

Half these words had single-digit occurences, so no big deal. Three words occurred under twenty times, still nothing that bad. The remainding three words got a lot of use, and though I will look to cut a few occurences of them, I'm not looking to cut their use in half or by even a quarter.

[I realize no one directed anything critical at me, but I'm using my WHIP as example] My WHIP involves gangsters and cops, so a lot of questioning occurs as well as a lot of mischef, threats, and sarcasm, so there is a lot of occurences of "nods", "stares", and "smiles"; they're natural to my topic. The reason I'm not too worried about the abundance of these actions is because there is so little use of the other words in my checklist; these three just happen to be the dominant gestures for the type of characters I have. Had all (or even most of) the words in my list been used as often, then I'd be sweating now, realizing I bloated my WHIP with filler words.

And because I write scenes in pretty tight character POV, it's the character's vocabulary that comes out in the narrative, and with some of my characters, their vocab won't allow for the five-dollar version of "nod", "smile", or "stare". This doesn't mean I don't pay attention to repeating words; I certainly try to space them out. But I'm not going crazy worrying about them either.

If you have a checklist of similar words you searched out and they're all in high use, you may have a problem. If only a few are used abundantly, make sure each gesture is required of that scene. Of those that survive the cut, change the word to an alternative if it's too close to another occurence of that same word, or if the POV character's vocabulary would use it.

I think that those writers who have a firm grasp of word use/repetition, and know when and why to use or not use some words while getting out the info they want and not slowing or muddying the read, have graduated from the craft of writing to the art of writing. I hope to get there when I grow up.

[stormie]

is there a way to search for all of that? i'm only 20k words into what i'm writing now... but i'd like to see what i overuse so far.

i only saw four shrugs or a variation of shrug, at least. :)

Awhile ago, AWs Roger Carlson gave us this link to help with finding adverb, counting word frequency, etc.
http://www.rogerjcarlson.com/WritingHelp/TechTips.html

[seun]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I'm in the middle of an edit now. My characters are nodding all over the place. :rant: It gets annoying very quickly.

[PeeDee]

Yes, I agree, and so at first I was thinking the only way to make it realistic would be to record every instance where I picture the characters doing these things. I see what Jan's saying, though, because it would get awfully repetitive, since some people smile or shrug quite often in conversation! :)

When I talk, if I'm very interested in the subject and getting enthused, I tend to gesture a great deal with my hands. I don't know why, but I do. If I were writing that, however, I wouldn't detail every single gesture I made with my hands; just the big obvious ones.

I dunno. By itself, as a list, having that many facial expressions and body movements made me think animatronic. However, spread them out across a sufficient body of work, and I think it works just fine. I mean, unless every sentence in the entire bloody thing is starting with him smiling, nodding, shrugging, soft-shoe dancing, and so on, then I think you're fine. If you hit page twenty and think, "If this character smiles once more.....damn!" then maybe it's time to revise.

[skylarburris]

Can I play too?

In my 99,280 word novel, I have

smile - 112 (Egads! About one every four pages.)
raised eyebrows - 4
laugh - 55
stares - 8
grins - 6
nods - 29
shrugs - 1
sighs - 26
frowns - 6
chuckles - 0

Of course, it is a drawing room drama, so it is largely dialogue. Still, the smiles seem a bit much in retrospect...but as long as they aren't obtrusive, I suppose.