writing qualifications

[littlewriter]

Does anyone have any? I don't have any formal writing qualifications and I was thinking of taking a course in creative writing. I was just wondering if anyone else had done this and found it to be beneficial?

Sarah

[kristie911]

I took a creative writing course in college (we won't mention how long ago that was!) and while I enjoyed it immensely, I can't say it helped me a lot. I enjoyed hearing other students writings and liked sharing mine and getting feedback. But it was more like a writer's group than a class. I learned what worked and what didn't but it was more from the other students than from the instructor. And it doesn't exactly give you a writing "credential" when querying agents and publishers.

My suggestion would be to find a good writer's group to share with and save your money.

[Jamesaritchie]

Does anyone have any? I don't have any formal writing qualifications and I was thinking of taking a course in creative writing. I was just wondering if anyone else had done this and found it to be beneficial?

Sarah

I have plenty of writing qualifications, and I've found them extremely helpful, but I was a fairly well-published writer well before I took my first writing class, or had a day of college, so you you don't have to have one to be the other.

[NeuroFizz]

Just about any experience you can get in which there is a give-and-take approach to writing will be helpful. The trick is to balance the personal value against the cost. If you can, talk to people who have taken the course to get a feel for the cost-benefit. Writing groups can provide useful experience, but they are usually not something one would cite on a query. If your local university has a Creative Writing department or program, it's easy to find students to give feedback on individual courses.

[Saundra Julian]

I wrote award-winning TV commercials. Does that count? LOL...

[wordmonkey]

I got fired from a job. I hated the job, hated the way it made me feel, hated the lie I was being forced to live, hated almost everything about it. So you can see why I might get fired having that attitude. However, we had a kid and I was no longer in that luxurious position of being able to tell the world to go sit and spin.

So my wife got a job. She could earn almost twice as much as me anyways and there was a part of her that was feeling stifled by being a stay-at-home-mom. So we swapped roles.

I needed to still do something, and freelance ad work was in a slump here, so I looked at going to college and getting a degree in English. Follow through on that ambition to write the next great American novel. But the cost and the time I'd need to commit to it made that something that just wasn't gonna work.

So I just started writing.

And writing.

And writing.

And writing.

I subbed and have a nice collection of rejections. But I kept writing.

And around the time I would be just finishing up a full-time degree course, I started to make some headway. I made some sales. I started to get people rejecting me nicely (oh the little things we look for to boost our egos), I started to get people asking me to write for them.

In my experience, as far as selling and breaking in is concerned, qualifications don't mean squat. Credits are all that matters.

Now don't get me wrong, if you wanna go to college, get a degree, all that stuff, I am sure it will be of some value. But reading, and writing and reading and writing some more will make you better.

Another over-priced two-cents-worth, brought you by those friendly primates at writingmonkey.com (http://www.writingmonkey.com)

[Siddow]

The biggest benefit I've found in taking creative writing courses is the forced deadline. You can't show up with nothing. Are you thinking of a short-term class, or going for a degree? The former doesn't mean much in the way of qualifications, but the latter can hold some weight since you had to actually do the work to get the grades to earn the degree.

The right class can be inspiring. The wrong class can be a disaster in creativity. If you want to fill out the credentials paragraph, submit shorts to good markets. A pub credit means more than book learnin'.

[ByGracePublishing]

Good writing is what matters. I read query letters, and don't put much stock in the credentials that come in some of them. As long as the writing is solid, you'll get the attention of your intended publisher.

[jchines]

I've got a Master's Degree in English, with a concentration in creative writing. It was a helpful experience, in that I learned how to teach, how to improve my non-fiction writing, and how to better criticize and analyze literature.

In terms of my own fiction writing, I didn't learn much. I probably got more out of the one-week Writers of the Future workshop than I did from my two years of grad school.

I've also heard a number of pros in the SF/F field talk about how they've been snubbed by the "literary" aspects of MFA programs.

Perhaps the most telling data point -- of my class, I'm not aware of anyone else who has any fiction sales at all. We had one person who got some of her poems published, but that's it, as far as I know....

[icerose]

There are writers who have a long list of both credentials and credits who can no longer get published because their newer writing isn't strong enough to stand on it's own anymore. They stopped progressing and backslid. Their stories are flat, their characters are cardboard cutouts of previous ones.

In the end, good writing makes all the difference, if you can write an intriguing and engaging novel, chances are good it will get published.

[NeuroFizz]

If writing experience and credits were unimportant, agents and editors would stop asking for them in query letters and bios. I agree though--all the credits in the world won't make any difference unless the writing is good. However, the credits may help get the agent/editor to look at that writing in the first place. Without that look, even the best writing will grow cobwebs on the writer's hard drive.

[Medievalist]

Does anyone have any? I don't have any formal writing qualifications and I was thinking of taking a course in creative writing. I was just wondering if anyone else had done this and found it to be beneficial?

Sarah

Unless you've got money and time to burn, my general response is "no." Most (not all) creative writing classes teach you to write stuff that sells to other creative writing students, if it sells at all.

I'd look for a small but solid writing group where you can workshop each others stuff. A good one is hard to find, but worth it. If you know you're interested in a particular genre, look for short workshops/seminars taught by people who are well thought of in that that genre and as teachers.

Write. Read. Write some more. Revise. Go read something else. Write some more . . .

[maestrowork]

I took college creative writing and fiction writing. I think if you have a good program and teachers, they can be very beneficial. Of course, you can learn via other means (mentoring, the "Writing Novel with Uncle Jim" thread, etc.) but the bottom line is, keep learning.

[jchines]

If writing experience and credits were unimportant, agents and editors would stop asking for them in query letters and bios.

My impression (and I am not an agent, and only did one run as an editor) is that they're looking more for what you've published. They want to see sales to noteworthy markets which prove you can write professionally. Which isn't to say a degree is worthless, or you shouldn't mention it. But I suspect an impressive sale or two will get you farther than the degree.

[NeuroFizz]

My impression (and I am not an agent, and only did one run as an editor) is that they're looking more for what you've published. They want to see sales to noteworthy markets which prove you can write professionally. Which isn't to say a degree is worthless, or you shouldn't mention it. But I suspect an impressive sale or two will get you farther than the degree.Yes, but you are turning my words. The publications and sales are the writing credits of which I speak. I'll never claim there is any direct correlation between advanced degrees and success in this field, and I wasn't suggesting anyone go for a degree in Creative Writing or any other field. I merely suggested that if one wants to take a class, and it isn't too expensive, check out its reputation and if it looks like it will give positive experience, go for it.

[Jamesaritchie]

There are writers who have a long list of both credentials and credits who can no longer get published because their newer writing isn't strong enough to stand on it's own anymore. They stopped progressing and backslid. Their stories are flat, their characters are cardboard cutouts of previous ones.

In the end, good writing makes all the difference, if you can write an intriguing and engaging novel, chances are good it will get published.

Such things happen, though I don't think such writers backslide very often, and I don't think theier characters become cardboard cutouts. I think they just stop writing the kind of stories the reading pubic wants, or the newness wears off what they are writing.

But I don't think they have anyting at all to do with whether credentials are a good and helpful thing. Good writing, good storytelling, good dialogue. and good characters are the ultimate goal, but credentials, and previous credits, go a long way in convincing an agent or editor that you have what it takes to produce such a novel.

In the end, a good novel speaks for itself, but credentials and credits can greatly ease your novel's journey to an agent or editor who will read it, fall in love with it, and take it on.

And I know from personal experience that when an agent or editor has two manuscripts of equal merit, but room for only one, odds are very high that the writer with the previous credits or the best credentials will probably get the slot.

[Jamesaritchie]

Yes, but you are turning my words. The publications and sales are the writing credits of which I speak. I'll never claim there is any direct correlation between advanced degrees and success in this field, and I wasn't suggesting anyone go for a degree in Creative Writing or any other field. I merely suggested that if one wants to take a class, and it isn't too expensive, check out its reputation and if it looks like it will give positive experience, go for it.

There can be a direct correlation between degrees, good writing courses, and how easy it is to get your novel on the desk of an agent or editor who has the power to take it on. The weeding process is seldom a kind one, there's never, ever room for everything, and a large amount has to be turned away without a read, even if it may be good.

This holds true, even when the credential isn't something as fancy as an MFA. One clear case in the short story market is at Realms of Fantasy. Anything that comes in from a Clarion attendee goes straight to the editor, Shawna McCarthy. Everything else must be filtered trhough a first reader.

Anything that allows a manuscript to bypass a first reader is a good thing, and anything that makes an agent or editor request a full novel based on a query letter and synopsis is a good thing, and credentials can make this happen. In the end, your fiction has to stand on its own two feet, but before it can do this someone with authority has to read it.

[jchines]

This holds true, even when the credential isn't something as fancy as an MFA. One clear case in the short story market is at Realms of Fantasy. Anything that comes in from a Clarion attendee goes straight to the editor, Shawna McCarthy. Everything else must be filtered through a first reader.

Actually, the Clarion policy has been discontinued. Apparently Ms. McCarthy was getting too many subs, so Clarion grads no longer get an automatic pass.

You still skip the slush if you've previously sold a story to Realms, but that's about it as far as I know.

[James D. Macdonald]

I wrote award-winning TV commercials. Does that count? LOL...

Yes.

[James D. Macdonald]

If writing experience and credits were unimportant, agents and editors would stop asking for them in query letters and bios.


The credits and experience they're talking about is published stories. Those mean that some editor somewhere thought you're writing on a professional level.

Classes in creative writing aren't writing credits or experience.

[NeuroFizz]

Check post number 16.

[Old Hack]

I have an MA (distinction) in creative writing. I paid my University fees by writing articles and winning prizes for my short stories. I earned more through writing during my MA than I needed to pay for the course, my travel, etc.

I'm not sure which discipline I learned the most from. But it was a wonderful learning experience, either way.

I don't think my MA gave me/taught me stuff I would not have learned eventually without it. It did accellerate me through the process. And I did get to meet all sorts of agents, writers and editors, who have been very helpful to me. I've still not got that novel deal yet, though I'm still hoping.

[Jamesaritchie]

Actually, the Clarion policy has been discontinued. Apparently Ms. McCarthy was getting too many subs, so Clarion grads no longer get an automatic pass.

You still skip the slush if you've previously sold a story to Realms, but that's about it as far as I know.

Didn't know that. I haven't been keeping up with Realms lately, and I need to get back to it. A very good magazine.

The biggest area where I see credentials other than previously published fiction being an aid is with literary fiction. Agents and editors, paticularly magazine editors, who handle "literary" fiction seem to pay a huge amount of attention to such things as an MFA, or to something like the Iowa workshop.

Most genre agent and editors pay less attention to such things as an MFA, and far more attention to publishing history. Having a few short stories published in good magazines really does make a difference in a query letter, and I've made two publishing deals because of the short stories I've had published.

[James D. Macdonald]

Agents and editors, paticularly magazine editors, who handle "literary" fiction seem to pay a huge amount of attention to such things as an MFA, or to something like the Iowa workshop.

What you have to understand is that most literary magazines are MFA fanzines.

[blackbird]

Well, I recently acquired an MFA in Creative Writing in addition to an MA in English. I would certainly vouch for the experience--my instructors were wonderful and never allowed me to stop at being "second best." They encouraged me to stretch beyond my comfort zone, a place I had been locked into for many years.

That being said, I had a substantial body of published work (mostly poetry) before embarking on the program, plus the fact I was a good twenty years older than most of the students. In other words, to some extent I had already been "molded" well before entering the program. I already had a pretty good grip on who I was and what my strong areas are, which gave me an automatic advantage, I think, over many of the other students, many of whom were still struggling with issues of identity, style and voice.

People will say that an MFA won't make you a writer, let alone a successful one. And that is true. However, I can vouch for the fact that I definitely GREW as a writer, and was enriched by the experience.