quick question about word count

[emsuniverse]

My YA is only 40,000. Is that like way too short?

I'm almost done with the editing and I would like to start trying to find an agent.

Thanks!

Bea

[Kentuk]

Sounds like about a hundred pages. Time to do some serious research. I suspect shorter books are more likely to get read in that market but would think the aim point would be about three hundred pages.

[moondance]

It's not way too short. On the short end, yes, but not by much. To me, 45,000 is kind of a minimum, but see what agents say. I wrote an early novel at 32k and the agent DID say it was too short, but bear in mind that an editor might have suggestions for developing it anyway, so you're not that far off the mark to start with.

Kentuk, YA is much shorter than adult fiction. Unless you are writing fantasy, publishers prefer books to be under 80k. Of course, like all 'rules' in the publishing world, this is merely a guideline.

[eleniandthecards]

Good to know.

Ah, back to the library for research.

[Lisa McMann]

Well, you made me come out and actually register, Bea.

My upper YA novel was 33k words when I received an offer from an agent (it is well over 200 pages -- courier 12 pt -- but the writing style requires a bit of white space). My agent asked me to add 3000-5000 words. I managed 4000, and he said it was great at 37k. We are now in the submission process.

But 40k isn't way too short. Just wanted to share my experience. :)

[Ol' Fashioned Girl]

I stumbled across this thread thinking someone needed help with Microsoft Word and found a newbie! Welcome to AW, Lisa! Hope you enjoy it here! (And a sheepish 'Hi!' to the rest of you, too!) I'll go now, since YA is definitely NOT my cup of tea. 'Scuse the interruption!

[Lisa McMann]

Thanks, OFG! I've been an occasional lurker for a while...

[eleniandthecards]

You know something I thought of? Shorter books would be cheaper to print, right? Am I right, here?

[sammyig]

they are, but most people still aren't willing to shell out much for a thin book. That's why most thinner books are in the YA section.

There are a few standard novels that are short- but they are rare.

[blackholly]

40K is short, but not waaaay too short. Angela Johnson's books, for example, are quite brief, but lovely and powerful. I think short can work as long as the reader isn't feeling like there should be more.

[Elektra]

I've gotten a few nibbles from agents with my 35k book--don't lose hope yet!

[markchandler]

I'm at 11k with my book at the moment, but nowhere near finished.

The book is action/adventure - is there a max word count for YA?

[Lisa McMann]

Well, think about Harry Potter. What are they? Well over 120k, I'd guess (I have no idea).

I don't think 70k is too much for an average YA, either.

[Little Red Barn]

can I ask a ? about word count...Is my word count on microsoft word actual? this site got me very confused. http://agentr.com/count.html
Any thoughts on this are appreciated, thanks kimmi

[Lisa McMann]

Kimmi, microsoft word is close enough for your count, if you're writing a novel. Just go with the nearest 1000 words or so. Exact word-count on a novel isn't crucial.

On the other hand, if you're writing a flash fiction piece and the guidelines say 500 words max or you're disqualified, well, I'd count those individually if I knew I was close. ;)

[Little Red Barn]

Kimmi, microsoft word is close enough for your count, if you're writing a novel. Just go with the nearest 1000 words or so. Exact word-count on a novel isn't crucial.

On the other hand, if you're writing a flash fiction piece and the guidelines say 500 words max or you're disqualified, well, I'd count those individually if I knew I was close. ;)
Thank you so much, I didn't understand that site...:)

[Lisa McMann]

Ahhh...sorry -- I didn't click on your link until now.

Um... what does this sentence mean to you (from their guidelines): You will impress us more with a good query letter than with a well-written novel.

Hello? Yes, the query is important. But good writing trumps all. How many good query letters get you an advance and royalties? That's just a silly thing to say.

And, um, their guidelines seem a little OCD to me. But that's just me being difficult. ;-)

However, not to drag this agency down, I checked P&E and they have no concerns there, and they appear to have many books sold and in submission. So if you can handle the guidelines, more power to you!

:D

[Elektra]

Well, think about Harry Potter. What are they? Well over 120k, I'd guess (I have no idea).

I don't think 70k is too much for an average YA, either.

harry potter isn't a good standard for a number of reasons

A) JK Rowling has amnesty for everthing.
B) Previously-published authors are given a lot more leeway than newbies
and
C)Her first book came out around a decade ago--things have changed dramatically since then.


Also, I think the OCD agent's word count is the same thing as putting all your margins at 1" and multiplying the number of pages by 250

[Lisa McMann]

Good points on harry potter, Elektra.

To use a more recent first-time author, Stephenie Meyer's "Twilight" is around 130k, I think. It's probably one of the longest books in the YA market right now. I wouldn't (couldn't) write one anywhere near that long. 40-70k sounds reasonable. But there are exceptions.

I guess all I'm trying to say is don't box yourself in with a bunch of rules. :)

[Little Red Barn]

Ahhh...sorry -- I didn't click on your link until now.

Um... what does this sentence mean to you (from their guidelines): You will impress us more with a good query letter than with a well-written novel.

Hello? Yes, the query is important. But good writing trumps all. How many good query letters get you an advance and royalties? That's just a silly thing to say.

And, um, their guidelines seem a little OCD to me. But that's just me being difficult. ;-)

However, not to drag this agency down, I checked P&E and they have no concerns there, and they appear to have many books sold and in submission. So if you can handle the guidelines, more power to you!

:D

Thank you for checking Lisa, kimmi

[jamiehall]

What I did was get a lot of books at the library that were similar to mine and looked to be aimed at the same reading/age level. Then I (by hand) counted words on their pages. There was a bit of variation, but I found that the average hovered right around 250 (you'll find that the younger the readers, the fewer words per page, so the age bracket for your book might have a different number of average words per page).

Next, I went looking on Amazon.com for books that were similar to mine in subject, seemed aimed at the same age level, and had been published recently. I'd look at the page count for each book (which is right there on Amazon) and multiply it by 250 words per page to get the total word count for that book. Once I'd gotten a bunch of these word counts and had a range, I looked at my book's word count and saw that it was in the higher middle part of the range.

I wouldn't worry unless your book is outside the range. And, even if it is slightly outside that range, the most likely thing is that you'll probably be asked if you can cut a bit.

[stephblake24]

If you want to look up the word count on published YA books, please go to: http://www.renlearn.com/store/quiz_home.asp

[Shady Lane]

40,000 is short-ish, but it sounds fine to me. My YA that's getting published is 22,000. THAT is little. My point is there's always a market. Don't try to ruin a good thing by expanding/contracting.

[Dancre]

I'm pushing mine to 50,000 so I guess I'm ok, yes? no? please say yes, you'll make me very happy if you do!!!

kim

[Cassidy]

mine's just under 50,000 and will be released in the fall. it actually started out as a short story... and wouldn't go away until it grew into a novel. anyway, the publisher i submitted to gives 45-50,000 as a guideline for YA submissions, for what that's worth.

[Jimmer]

You know, all this concern about word count is mostly wasted energy, in my opinion. If your work is in the ballpark, and for YA I would call that 30,000-80,000 words, I wouldn't spend one nanosecond worrying more.

I think there are two basic levels to success in novel writing. The first is to know your technical stuff: grammar, spelling, sentence structure, plot and characterization. If your submission is filled with spelling errors or is riddled with grammatical blunders, it's probable your work will not be taken seriously by editors. Don't think for one minute that editors will clean up the small stuff for you. That's not their job, it's yours.

The second level involves writing style. Can you carry a plot and tension throughout a novel length work? Are your characters and their situations real? Does their dialogue ring true? Are you able to make your readers care about your characters? Do you have something to say and can you say it in a new and refreshing way?

If you manage to accomplish both of these levels in your submission, do you really think an editor will tell you, "Gee, too bad your ms is only 29,000 words. If it were just 35,000 we'd make an offer today."

They're looking for talent. If you show them talent they will work with you to fit their needs more precisely. They are hungry for talent. Ravenous.

As I said before, word count is the least of your worries. Get the word count in the ballpark and focus on writing the best darn novel you can possibly write. The rest is small stuff. Don't sweat the small stuff.